Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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DaddyBuzzwole

DaddyBuzzwole

Sahvyt said:
In case of Eviolite getting knocked off.
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aside from the fact that recycle doesn't work on items that were knocked off, dipplin should never realistically be running anything besides sticky hold
Sahvyt said:
Syrup Bomb is a really good move with unreliable accuracy, so being able to hit things with it more reliably and potentially force a switch is very useful.
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syrup bomb is outclassed even with perfect accuracy. because it has lower damage output than stuff like giga drain and energy ball, its only purposes are speed control and forcing switches. the former can be accomplished better with either of dipplin's paralyzing moves (body slam or dragon breath), since paralysis persists even after a switch, immediately cuts speed by half, and has the haha heehee rng factor. the latter can be accomplished better with dragon tail, which always forces a switch instead of potentially doing so
 

Kingdra7

What's the smallest that OU has ever been? 37 mons doesn't feel like very much. And considering how cornerstone, ninja, and lando were right fucking there as well, it's really more like 34 mons. (what a UU that would have been with lando and cornerstone!) How many of those 34 are broken af? Are we living in OUBL (aka UU is the new OU) and don't even know it?!
 
Eeveeto

Eeveeto

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Funny to see how Gliscor is sending everyone to UU.

Loyal trio: weak to Ground (the cool bird has other problems too though).
Chomp: Direct competition as SD sweeper and hazard setter.
Heatran: Very good check to it (had already many problems before).
Clodsire: Not only direct competition, but also free switch-in to it.
Sandy Shocks: Forced to Tera to do progress vs Gliscor (though its a good Tera for it).
Moltres: Free switch-in to it (as long as its poisoned).
Garganacl: Good check (Clefable was the biggest one though).
Amoonguss: Again, free switch-in.
Mandibuzz: Read above. At least this one can beat SD sets.

Also, Tusk, while solid vs Gliscor, has also decreased usage A LOT . Lando-T and Glowking suffer too, Ting-Lu (which in my opinion has always been garbage) its at 5% as well.

This is something I actually expected long before Gliscor was released. Even if it survives the Ban hammer (hopefully not. in my opinion it has to be the next target), it has for sure impacted the meta a lot.
 
ianlazerbeem

ianlazerbeem

The2009Zapdos said:
Ah. So you mean to tell me that Gliscor

Even though it lost access to Roost

Is the cause of HEATRAN FALLING TO UU. Gliscor in gen 7 wasn't even all that. Now supposedly is a monster and a half
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Yes absolutely. It literally doesn't need Roost, it has Poison Heal + Protect which usually comes out to more net HP than being hit on the Roost turn. This way instead of being hit and losing an immunity you heal and aren't hit

Never mind the fact that it now has Spikes and was one of the lucky few to retain Toxic and Knock. I really want to know, are those saying "how can Gliscor be good it doesn't have Roost" even playing the tier?
 
LadyLynn

LadyLynn

ianlazerbeem said:
+2 0 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 313-369 (94.5 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Better hope that 14.1% chance works out, and that spikes are up!

Also as DaddyBuzzwole said above they'll literally just use Recover and recoil stall you - the amount of things that have to go right for you for this to actually work on Ghold is hilarious and proves literally nothing
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I have no opinion on this debate atm but I do want to point out you calced for Quagsire instead of Quaquaval

Here's the calc you probably intended to do:

+2 0 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Quaquaval: 280-330 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
 
Harmless

Harmless

Ursaluna and gliscor kicking everyone down to UU is fucked up and blissey being OU is wrong. Also how does anyone retain their sanity trying to get reqs. I'm using a team that the person who made it said "yeah this kinda auto loses to unaware clef but thankfully nobody uses that" and I've now run into five in a row. Not to mention the several focus sash/tailwind/explosion shiftrys they aren't a problem but why are there so many.
 
Dhrabb

Dhrabb

is a Tiering Contributor
Garance said:
He are the shifts guys, what do you think about it ? Ribombee OU, Heatran, Garganacl, Clodsire and Garchomp UU....

Also Landorus dropping next month could be funny
| 35 | Landorus-Therian | 4.649% |

View attachment 556873
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Surprised to see Alomomola and Torn T not rising, I've found then to be quite excellent in this meta, maybe next month. Rilla and Moon rises make sense, but Blissey is pretty wild, Bloona has the tier in quite a stranglehold. The crazy drops don't surprise me as much, Heatran is kinda bad this gen, but I thought Garchomp would still be around since I saw it quite a lot in the first week of dlc, though it did drop off after. Ribombee staying OU is hilarious though.

What I do find more interesting though is Great Tusk having a pretty big drop off from last month's ~41 to now 30% while Kingambit is head and shoulders above it at 41.
 
ianlazerbeem

ianlazerbeem

Dhrabb said:
Surprised to see Alomomola and Torn T not rising, I've found then to be quite excellent in this meta, maybe next month. Rilla and Moon rises make sense, but Blissey is pretty wild, Bloona has the tier in quite a stranglehold. The crazy drops don't surprise me as much, Heatran is kinda bad this gen, but I thought Garchomp would still be around since I saw it quite a lot in the first week of dlc, though it did drop off after. Ribombee staying OU is hilarious though.

What I do find more interesting though is Great Tusk having a pretty big drop off from last month's ~41 to now 30% while Kingambit is head and shoulders above it at 41.
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The reason you find Great Tusk dropping interesting is because you are underselling Overcentralizing Gliscor's involvement in these dramatic usage shifts, like it isn't just Bloodmoon, it's the fact that Gliscor renders Tusk completely incapable of accomplishing its job
 
Dhrabb

Dhrabb

is a Tiering Contributor
ianlazerbeem said:
The reason you find Great Tusk dropping interesting is because you are underselling Overcentralizing Gliscor's involvement in these dramatic usage shifts, like it isn't just Bloodmoon, it's the fact that Gliscor renders Tusk completely incapable of accomplishing its job
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Oh no I for sure agree Gliscor is a HUGE reason behind most of these shifts, probably should have mentoined that. I do still find Tusk's usage drop interesting in that it used to rule the meta and now has a huge roadblock.
 
Wooloomax

Wooloomax

I got the feeling Rain was on it's way to UU and I'm pretty sure this is all on Waterpon. I don't think Waterpon is that busted but a Pokemon who kills an entire playstyle deserves to have their presence in the tier questioned.
 

Soiramio3000

Banned deucer.
Garance said:
He are the shifts guys, what do you think about it ? Ribombee OU, Heatran, Garganacl, Clodsire and Garchomp UU....

Also Landorus dropping next month could be funny
| 35 | Landorus-Therian | 4.649% |

View attachment 556873
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the things that I was NOT expecting to see:
  • rillaboom rising to OU.(grassy glide got nerfed, and even if that was not the case it still does not feel thaaaaat good).
  • roaring moon rising to OU(it is a good pokemon, but I don't see how the dlc made it viable again).
  • amoongus dropping (I was expecting it to stay as an OU staple, I believe it must have been "new toy syndrom".
  • fazandipiti dropping to UU(I am not surprised for the drop itself, I am surprised that she didn't drop even lower).
  • garganacl dropping(this pokemon is good, how come it dropped?)
  • meowscarada dropping(I am pretty sure that she will return again like she did the last time she dropped)
  • garchomp dropping(it got buffed with scale shot, how on earth did it drop? is it really that scared of enamorous and corviknight?).
  • crawdaunt dropping to UU(I barely recall anyone using that thing, I was expecting it to drop even further).
everything else was at least half expected.
 
Local Dog

Local Dog

oh my God the Chomp actually dropped

I guess that's what happens when we have a gazillion good grounds

But it's Chompy. Our guy
 
woodgoldtwo

woodgoldtwo

Soiramio3000 said:
the things that I was NOT expecting to see:
  • rillaboom rising to OU.(grassy glide got nerfed, and even if that was not the case it still does not feel thaaaaat good).
  • roaring moon rising to OU(it is a good pokemon, but I don't see how the dlc made it viable again).
  • amoongus dropping (I was expecting it to stay as an OU staple, I believe it must have been "new toy syndrom".
  • fazandipiti dropping to UU(I am not surprised for the drop itself, I am surprised that she didn't drop even lower).
  • garganacl dropping(this pokemon is good, how come it dropped?)
  • meowscarada dropping(I am pretty sure that she will return again like she did the last time she dropped)
  • garchomp dropping(it got buffed with scale shot, how on earth did it drop? is it really that scared of enamorous and corviknight?).
  • crawdaunt dropping to UU(I barely recall anyone using that thing, I was expecting it to drop even further).
everything else was at least half expected.
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Roaring Moon got Knock Off (and it resists Waterpon’s Ivy Cudgel i guess?)
I’m not surprised to see Amoongus drop though i honestly don’t know what it does, could someone explain it to me?
Fezandipiti is male
Garchomp (as well as all the other grounds) are suffering from having to compete with Gliscor and Bloodmoon Ursaluna, 2 extremely good pokemon
 
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YubelVT

YubelVT

Kingdra7 said:
What's the smallest that OU has ever been? 37 mons doesn't feel like very much. And considering how cornerstone, ninja, and lando were right fucking there as well, it's really more like 34 mons. (what a UU that would have been with lando and cornerstone!) How many of those 34 are broken af? Are we living in OUBL (aka UU is the new OU) and don't even know it?!
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Gen 1 OU
 

Alternator

is a Pre-Contributor
ZannaBianca said:
Let's not forget that half of them are carrying CM, we are talking Kyogre/Spectrier level jank
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I don't see that as crazy levels of jank. Blissey wants to wall special setup sweepers, most of them are using Calm Mind rather than Nasty Plot, and so the blob can get into Calm Mind wars. 75 SpA is nonviable for an attacker, but it's enough to punish anyone who tries to get into a Calm Mind war.
 
kosecant

kosecant

Alternator said:
I don't see that as crazy levels of jank. Blissey wants to wall special setup sweepers, most of them are using Calm Mind rather than Nasty Plot, and so the blob can get into Calm Mind wars. 75 SpA is nonviable for an attacker, but it's enough to punish anyone who tries to get into a Calm Mind war.
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I mean, calm mind blissey has been a meme for 20 years, it’s pretty ridiculous that it’s not only viable, but the best set on blissey
 
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