Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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Its not a splashable mon, but on Stall it covers a plethora of dangerous special threats like NP Ghold, Moth, CM Valiant, Wake, Specs Pult, Thundy-T, etc. NP Psyshock Ghold does ruin its day, but that is what Tera Dark is for.
I will say that Blissey is a Mon not worth using or more like wasting your Tera on to be immune to psyshock but I will admit that it’s still some what good on stall
 
oh my god enough with the spoilers
https://pokepast.es/3be63257456af0b9
My take on rillaboom ho, and it took me tilting 350 elo to find what works and what doesn’t.
So the core of rilla sneasler is a classic, and I decided to prove to everyone that sneasler is perfectly fine as is because I’m a 1500 and I’m really good at the game.
Some key notes:
One of gterrain’s greatest checks in gliscor is now gone, and you can finally breathe easy, knowing the moment ur opponents ghold dies, u win.
My specific variant really hates gambit. Gambit ban pls finch plsssss :(
Salazzle is a placeholder for a ghold/corv/heatran check. So far Salazzle is the only thing that comes to mind.
Since everyone and their moms are running fsight glowking, you kinda need a dark mon considering that 2 members just folds to fsight. Again, I like physical hydreigon cuz it’s based, but gambit is the pussy choice that should be banned superior choice.
Moth is there for a secondary form of speed control, assuming ur sneasler didn’t sweep.
hatt is your secondary win con, after your sneasler blew a big enough hole into the opponent
Rilla is terrain extender to abuse the shit out of halving eq damage for sneasler to kill as many mons as possible, and also allowing 4 more turns to switch into sneasler. Also using high horsepower cuz did I mention that this team hates gambit? And it also hates heatran.
As for sneasler , the poster child of todays controversy, he is perfectly balanced as to guessing the set, and the moment u guess wrong ur getting folded. I went with a traditional set replacing dire claw with gunk shot as I’ll rather play the missing lottery than would zapdos para this turn lottery.
And that’s all. Please ban gambit, I swear if I get one more game this mon becomes the best fairy/flying type I’ll cry. Any help is appreciated, and have a good day
Replace that salazzle now
IMG_2139.jpeg
 
https://pokepast.es/3be63257456af0b9
My take on rillaboom ho, and it took me tilting 350 elo to find what works and what doesn’t.
So the core of rilla sneasler is a classic, and I decided to prove to everyone that sneasler is perfectly fine as is because I’m a 1500 and I’m really good at the game.
Some key notes:
One of gterrain’s greatest checks in gliscor is now gone, and you can finally breathe easy, knowing the moment ur opponents ghold dies, u win.
My specific variant really hates gambit. Gambit ban pls finch plsssss :(
Salazzle is a placeholder for a ghold/corv/heatran check. So far Salazzle is the only thing that comes to mind.
Since everyone and their moms are running fsight glowking, you kinda need a dark mon considering that 2 members just folds to fsight. Again, I like physical hydreigon cuz it’s based, but gambit is the pussy choice that should be banned superior choice.
Moth is there for a secondary form of speed control, assuming ur sneasler didn’t sweep.
hatt is your secondary win con, after your sneasler blew a big enough hole into the opponent
Rilla is terrain extender to abuse the shit out of halving eq damage for sneasler to kill as many mons as possible, and also allowing 4 more turns to switch into sneasler. Also using high horsepower cuz did I mention that this team hates gambit? And it also hates heatran.
As for sneasler , the poster child of todays controversy, he is perfectly balanced as to guessing the set, and the moment u guess wrong ur getting folded. I went with a traditional set replacing dire claw with gunk shot as I’ll rather play the missing lottery than would zapdos para this turn lottery.
And that’s all. Please ban gambit, I swear if I get one more game this mon becomes the best fairy/flying type I’ll cry. Any help is appreciated, and have a good day
THIS MF RUNNING A POISON MOVE ON THEY SNEASLER INSTEAD OF AN ANTI GHOLDENGO MOVE

GET THEY ASS
 
THIS MF RUNNING A POISON MOVE ON THEY SNEASLER INSTEAD OF AN ANTI GHOLDENGO MOVE

GET THEY ASS
Surprise for the Tera Fairy Ghold that killed Tusk earlier.

Unrelated, I know the Unburden set is the obvious big wig, but has anyone been using Pivot/Breaker Sneasler with Poison Touch and/or non-disposable Held Items?
 

YNM

formerly yNot Mence
is a Tiering Contributor
Surprise for the Tera Fairy Ghold that killed Tusk earlier.

Unrelated, I know the Unburden set is the obvious big wig, but has anyone been using Pivot/Breaker Sneasler with Poison Touch and/or non-disposable Held Items?
I've seen a couple of Choiced sets with Dire Claw, CC, U-turn and a coverage/support move, but they get all outshined by the far more popular Unburden sets. I've also seen some HDB sets with Fake Out to maximize the chances of Poison Touch, and a very weird Normal Gem set with Fake Out to trigger Unburden (pretty bad imo).
I think the best set out of all of them (Unburden+SD aside) is the Choice Scarf variant with Switcheroo, that can function as a pretty good Revenge Killer and can also hinder opposing Support/Stall mons. I've never tried it myself tho, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Surprise for the Tera Fairy Ghold that killed Tusk earlier.

Unrelated, I know the Unburden set is the obvious big wig, but has anyone been using Pivot/Breaker Sneasler with Poison Touch and/or non-disposable Held Items?
I've used it. It was extremely fun w/ choice band: you obviously chunk everything VERY hard with prediction and can poison things on a mispredict or on Dozo. Switcheroo is also fun (sadly fails against dengo gamefreak whyyyyy) and Dire Claw is frankly bullshit which makes it excellent at generating salt which is always entertaining.
 
Surprise for the Tera Fairy Ghold that killed Tusk earlier.

Unrelated, I know the Unburden set is the obvious big wig, but has anyone been using Pivot/Breaker Sneasler with Poison Touch and/or non-disposable Held Items?
I don't know if I'd call it optimal or worth running over Unburden but I loved using a pivot Sneasler set a while back mainly just to spread status and fire off a Close Combat if it needed to.

Sneasler @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 152 HP / 100 Atk / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Fighting
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Dire Claw
- U-turn
- Fake Out

Threatens a lot of stuff with just STAB and the looming shadow of chip damage, and it surprises the opponent by being designed to come in often instead of just once. EVs let it 2HKO defensive Kingambit after Tera Fairy with Dire Claw. Could probably swap the item out for Choice Band and max out the Atk EVs or Protective Pads even if you wanted and you're confident in your hazard control. Maybe even a really funny Normal Gem. It'd be best as a revenge set on a bulky team that doesn't want the opponent to get comfortable setting up.
 
I will say that Blissey is a Mon not worth using or more like wasting your Tera on to be immune to psyshock but I will admit that it’s still some what good on stall
It's essential on stall, and if the alternative is losing the game, as it usually is with Psyshock vs stall, then Tera the Blissey. This is like calling Pelipper a noobtrap because it's only good on rain or Polteageist on psyspam
 
Now hear me out, phy Def Clodsire, not bad. Mainly used it to check Sneasler. It also checks the likes of Zama, Ceruledge, and Ace. Idk, been fun to use.
 
Now hear me out, phy Def Clodsire, not bad. Mainly used it to check Sneasler. It also checks the likes of Zama, Ceruledge, and Ace. Idk, been fun to use.
I was using mixed unaware clodsire for a long time. Does a good enough job, but its stats are garbage, you have to be at full health to come in on something. Stops iron moth (except booster spA psychic but who runs that), booster val, nasty plot ghold. Unfortunately there's a few pokemon that are just too strong. Specs gholdengo is one of them and it's a decent set recently. Without water absorb its useless against sun teams despite being a ground type. You can try walling sneasler but every sneasler team runs rillaboom which will 1hko you and halves the damage of your already weak earthquake. I ran rock slide to break balloons but if someone uses sub you're screwed. I know not every pokemon is meant to be LeBron james but gamefreak did him dirty with that BST, an extra 20 points into defense would change everything.
 
why use this over dozo tho? since dozo deals with all 4 of these pokemon and has an easier time vs them
i presume because clod still has 130/100 special bulk so it can check all those things while also tanking a lot of things on the special side that dozo can't? i dunno, i'm just trying to think of something. i'd rather use spdef clod and a physical wall than try making clod into a mixed wall
 
why use this over dozo tho? since dozo deals with all 4 of these pokemon and has an easier time vs them
Fighting and Poison resistance I imagine, but Dondozo has much better HP and Defense so I can't imagine it makes much of a difference. The Clod is already really good at being a special wall, so trying to awkwardly fit it into a physical role it's not suited for seems redundant. Maybe there's some specific team held together specifically by phys Clod.
 
i presume because clod still has 130/100 special bulk so it can check all those things while also tanking a lot of things on the special side that dozo can't? i dunno, i'm just trying to think of something. i'd rather use spdef clod and a physical wall than try making clod into a mixed wall
I could see that if clods defense were better so you could just patch it up a bit and run a decent mixed wall, but imo 60 def isn't really worth it. Especially not if you're not running unnaware, because physical attackers will quickly creep over you and while ur base spdef is good it's much worse at stopping special setup mons. Seems very messy when you can often afford to run clod + another wall/tank

Fighting and Poison resistance I imagine, but Dondozo has much better HP and Defense so I can't imagine it makes much of a difference. The Clod is already really good at being a special wall, so trying to awkwardly fit it into a physical role it's not suited for seems redundant. Maybe there's some specific team held together specifically by phys Clod.
Honestly if there is props to them LOL
 

Srn

Water (Spirytus - 96%)
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First off, moltres isnt a pivot pokemon, its a defensive wall. Most variants literally dont run uturn anyway, instead opting for double stab to do double time on zama and gambit. Getting your wall knocked is usually completely avoidable if you play correctly, and if you think otherwise then you must think chansey is just a worse blissey.

Second off, the idea that gambit only needs to come in once or twice a game is pretty absurd. Due to its honestly decent bulk and defensive typing a lot of team structures rely on it to come in and tank hits from pokemon like specs pult or ghold or rilla and then hit back with its massive attack stat. If you play like youre a pokemon down the whole game youre gonna be really restricted in team building and in play and eventually fall behind in mons, possibly even allowing your opponent to keep their gambit answers healthy (Ive seen this happen literally a million times). Of course, in the metagame today it doesnt really matter since gambit can tera through its answers, but obviously without it its a different story.

Also, "people make mistakes" is such a weird mindset to have in regards to whether or not a pokemon is broken or not. Its like, are you sure its broken or are you just bad? And its not even like tera less kingambit has an extremely slim margin of error where you need to play perfectly to beat it, theres so many things that can come in and beat it 1v1.
I disagree with a lot of this post. First off, defensive walls can be pivots. CR slowking/glowking, U-turn corv, volt switch zapdos, etc etc. You can be nitpicky about defining walls or pivots but bottom line is that lots of defensive pokemon are also pivots. Also going by October 1825+ OU stats, most moltres actually do run U-turn.
1700101558199.png

Frankly I'm shocked the number is only 53% because U-turn is the only thing keeping Moltres from being completely free Heatran real-estate, which is a mon that has become much better and much more common with Rillaboom's buffs. I do not run Moltres without U-turn, period.

I also don't think Hurricane is actually that good to help with Zamazenta either. If it has stone edge for you, you're not beating it even with Hurricane. But if it doesn't have stone edge, then you didn't need Hurricane either! Really makes no difference. Also running Hurricane outside of rain is cringe but that's a discussion for another day.

The idea that kingambit only needs to come in once or twice a game is actually completely valid, but entirely dependent on teamstyle. If Kingambit is being used on an HO team, then yeah, chances are that you don't bring it in to eat random hits and instead preserve its health+tera to reverse sweep lategame after your team has softened up the opposition. Ideally your team has been built in mind to specifically pressure Kingambit answers, but teambuilding isn't easy this gen, so I don't doubt you've seen HO fail to do this a million times.

My stance on Kingambit is, as you can imagine, that it's a mon broken purely due to tera and it would be completely manageable without it. Hopefully we can ban it through suspect in dlc2, but that is also a discussion for another day.
 
I could see that if clods defense were better so you could just patch it up a bit and run a decent mixed wall, but imo 60 def isn't really worth it. Especially not if you're not running unnaware, because physical attackers will quickly creep over you and while ur base spdef is good it's much worse at stopping special setup mons. Seems very messy when you can often afford to run clod + another wall/tank
yeah, 60 is on the lower end of "bad" according to my base stat metric. that's around the point where i won't bother investing into a non-speed stat even if there's a specific niche for it (unless it's something like chansey or shuckle that desperately needs the evs in a super-low stat to do its job properly)
 
lately ive replaced clod with tera fire gastrodon. if they have ogerpon or walking wake it has a good matchup into them and also clear smog sets are better at dealing with manaphy. youre a little more vulnerable to nasty plot gholdengo but better suited against specs, and it can still deal with iron moth if you tera. sludgebomb for val and fishing poion.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Clear Smog
- Recover

i havent bothered to optimise it yet but its pretty consistent and with tera fire you can usually solo rain teams (not that theyre all that common)
 
yeah, 60 is on the lower end of "bad" according to my base stat metric. that's around the point where i won't bother investing into a non-speed stat even if there's a specific niche for it (unless it's something like chansey or shuckle that desperately needs the evs in a super-low stat to do its job properly)
I could see that if clods defense were better so you could just patch it up a bit and run a decent mixed wall, but imo 60 def isn't really worth it. Especially not if you're not running unnaware, because physical attackers will quickly creep over you and while ur base spdef is good it's much worse at stopping special setup mons. Seems very messy when you can often afford to run clod + another wall/tank



Honestly if there is props to them LOL
i used to run 124 in def because it avoided the 2hko from booster val psyshock from full

252 SpA Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Clodsire: 208-246 (44.9 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

fairly common interaction and your typing covers the other special attackers you want to check so its worth it
 
moltres lore
shoutout to the 0.104% of Moltres users not running Roost, Specs Moltres is the future of OU, trust the process

Moltres does have 125 base special attack actually... hmm...

252+ SpA Choice Specs Moltres Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 202-238 (66.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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