Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[Wizarus]

Hoopa-U sticking around is a surprise to me I didn't know it was getting so much usage. I thought the relatively slow base 80 speed would end up pushing it out to UUBL again.

 

[Fancy1]

Hoopa-U sticking around is a surprise to me I didn't know it was getting so much usage. I thought the relatively slow base 80 speed would end up pushing it out to UUBL again.

thats the give and take of hoopa, it matches super well into slower balance and defensive teams (especially mixed sets) and not great into faster paced offensive teams. Band, Specs and Eject Pack are my favorites and even the occasional scarf (although even with scarf it can still be outpaced) it’s most likely sticking around for the balance breaker aspect I mentioned above, that and 160, 170 offenses (and 130 spdef) are nothing to laugh at

edit: future sight immunity in this meta is good as well

 

[superstrike66]

I honestly think the Iron Treads hate is overblown. Yes, it lives in the (great) shadow of its prehistoric cousin, it has a few valuable traits that help it find a a niche over the meta king. While its speed is great in many situations, I use it for other reasons. Treads' Steel typing is super useful certain teams. For example, I find it extremely easy to stack multiple Fighting types and other Fairy weaks on a team, so Treads' typing is helpful to thwart these pesky pixies. Move options such as Volt Switch to keep up momentum and Steel Beam on HO are very useful as well.

While Great Tusk is better than Treads in most cases, there are a few times while the metal elephant will be a better fit on a team. Iron Treads is by no means amazing in this meta, but its not a shitmon that stayed in OU for far to long like gen 7 Mimikyu either.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

From what I can speculate, Treads seems to have a strong mu vs Zapdos. Being an electric immunity not hit hard by Hurricane. Treads can threaten back with Knock or Ice Spinner and only fears the potential Heat Wave. It also has a better mu vs Ghold due to having better special bulk and a steel resist.

Now for thoughts on the drops cause the only rise this month is Sandy Shocks.

View attachment 530880: Personally I find Bascu underrated. I talked about it earlier but its Craw if it traded Knock Off and reliable secondary STAB for better bulk/speed and spinblocking capabilities. In fact it actually hits harder than Craw due to Wave Crash being even stronger than Crabhammer. Also having hard hitting priority to snipe offensive threats is valuable. Right now it faces alot of competition with Bax and Samu, but I think after some meta shifts we could see this big fish return.

View attachment 530881: Loom got hit hard by Home and it is unfortunate cause I was looking forward to it finally being OU viable after being mediocre since XY and dormant for an entire generation. Zapdos, Enamorus, Torn, Sneasler, and Glowking all are great Loom checks, too great in fact. Competition with other more reliable fighting types like Sneasler, Valiant, or Zama also doesn’t help its case. Plus its old checks like Ghold, Amoonguss, and Pult are still here and thriving. I guess it can anti-lead Samu with a Scarf Bullet Seed set, but its gimmicky and 70 base speed scarfers have been long out of style for a decade now.

View attachment 530883 : Enam-T was overlooked a bit due to its Incarnate form just being a better mon. However Turtle Enamorus has been popping off a couple of times in WCOP. Its bulk makes it better at tanking threats like Valiant, Pult, Tusk, and Zama. It also became a great candidate on screen teams. Either it becomes a bulky lower tier mon with a prominent OU niche like Reuniclus, or it rises as the meta slows down.

View attachment 530884: Pre-Home, Meow was amazing due to its ability to effortlessly set up spikes, make progress with Knock + U-Turn, and outspeed the opposition. However Home is more hostile to Morgana. The metagame is bulkier and stronger. Threats like Zapdos and Enamorus hurt its offensive presence. Yes it can threaten them with Knock, but Zapdos can ruin it with Static while Enamorus threatens Meow’s team with high power Moonblast + coverage. Meow has also gained competition with Sneasler who is another speedy physical attacker with U-Turn who can hit even harder while crippling the opposition with Dire Claw. Zama is also a huge threat that can eat a hit and threaten Meow back. As an offensive spike lead it faces competition from the new Samu-H who can threaten Tusk like Meow and outperforms Meow with its typing + Encore + usable enough bulk.Its still good, offensive grass types are rare and invaluable. Also Knock Off is still broken, but it isn’t top 10 like it was Pre-Home.

View attachment 530887: The Volc ban really hit Dirge hard. Meta trends aren’t really favorable for Dirge atm despite the obvious advantage an Unaware wall has vs the abundance of HO teams. The problem is most of the mons it wants to check have ways around it. Enamorus can click EP, Valiant can click Sball or Knock, and Sneasler can break with Dire Claw and coverage, Cinderace can U-Turn into something that threatens Dirge. Often times it is forced to Tera which means it can’t check those specific targets. The only exceptions are mons like Zama who Dirge can still ward off just fine. Wisp is also kinda inconsistent with its 85 acc and most of the time it is forced to Slack Off after an interaction, which means losing momentum. Also Samu-H is a big threat that can switch into Dirge to set up a layer of Spikes in front of its face.

View attachment 530890: I’m of the opinion that Torn is underrated. Tera is such a blessing for it and lets it be flexible. Want to lure Garg? Tera Grass G-Knot. Need to lure Gambit? Tera Fighting Focus Miss. Need a spinblocker that threatens Tusk? Tera Ghost. Need a Valiant check? Tera Poison. Want a Glowking lure AND a Ghost resist? Tera Dark. Have you dreamed of a fast Steel or Fairy type with U-Turn and Regen? You’re a monster for dreaming that but now you can with Tera Steel/Fairy. Besides Tera, it outspeeds Sneasler by 1 point, and can annoy defensive mons with NP + Taunt. I’ve been experimenting with RH Torn which punishes annoying pivots like Cinder and in conjunction with U-Turn from Sneasler or Meow, can prevent Samu from getting a single layer of spikes. Also Torn has great synergy with its Gen 8 partner in crime Glowking.

Good luck with all the chaos for a month UU.

I think out of all of these torn-t(Actually underrated btw) is the most likely to come back other than dirge and possibly galarian moltres. (Goltres is headed to uubl, tera double dance goltres is an absolute monster)

 

[artificialdeath]

I honestly think the Iron Treads hate is a little overblown. Yes, it lives in the (great) shadow of its prehistoric cousin, it has a few valuable traits that help it find a a niche over the meta king. While its speed is great in many situations, I use it for other reasons. Treads' Steel typing is super useful certain teams. For example, I find it extremely easy to stack multiple Fighting types and other Fairy weaks on a team, so Treads' typing is helpful to thwart these pesky pixies. Move options such as Volt Switch to keep up momentum and Steel Beam on HO are very useful as well.

While Great Tusk is better than Treads in most cases, there are a few times while the metal elephant will be a better fit on a team. Iron Treads is by no means amazing in this meta, but its not a shitmon that stayed in OU for far to long like gen 7 Mimikyu either.

There aren't that many usable Fairies in the current meta, though, and the two main ones match up quite well into Treads.

 

[Pabloaram]

I wanted to did this after Home drops to see how many mons are in OU from each gen:
OU rn has 37 mons by usage (41 if count banned mons)
Gen 9 SV has 19 mons in OU. Counting Hisui mons bc there is his first playable OU


Gen 8 SS has 6 mons in OU.


Gen 7 SM has 1.


Gen 6 XY has 2.


Gen 5 BW has 2.


Gen 4 DPP has 3.


Gen 3 ADV has 1.


Gen 2 GSC has 1.


Gen 1 RBY has 2.


What is your opinion on this? Powercreep? Nerf? Both?

 

[Avira]

I wanted to did this after Home drops to see how many mons are in OU from each gen:
OU rn has 37 mons by usage (41 if count banned mons)
Gen 9 SV has 19 mons in OU. Counting Hisui mons bc there is his first playable OU


Gen 8 SS has 6 mons in OU.


Gen 7 SM has 1.


Gen 6 XY has 2.


Gen 5 BW has 2.


Gen 4 DPP has 3.


Gen 3 ADV has 1.


Gen 2 GSC has 1.


Gen 1 RBY has 2.


What is your opinion on this? Powercreep? Nerf? Both?

The answer is clearly power creep although nerfs and dexit are also a factor. Gen 9 is basically power creep on steroids with even low-tier mons from this gen being more powerful than low-tier mons of the past.

Good As Gold might be the fourth best non-RNG-related ability ever made after Wonder Guard, Huge Power, and Pure Power.

 

[Mega Breloom]

I wanted to did this after Home drops to see how many mons are in OU from each gen:
OU rn has 37 mons by usage (41 if count banned mons)
Gen 9 SV has 19 mons in OU. Counting Hisui mons bc there is his first playable OU


Gen 8 SS has 6 mons in OU.


Gen 7 SM has 1.


Gen 6 XY has 2.


Gen 5 BW has 2.


Gen 4 DPP has 3.


Gen 3 ADV has 1.


Gen 2 GSC has 1.


Gen 1 RBY has 2.


What is your opinion on this? Powercreep? Nerf? Both?

Nerfs and Dexit play a big role on this, if there were more options for removal Tusk wouldn't be the most used mon, Clef/Reuniclus would sit all day on Garg and boost if they want, an so on. Yeah, still would be more gen9 mons in total because of powercreep, but it would be more balance between the gens.

 

[Sheerluck Holmes]

I wanted to did this after Home drops to see how many mons are in OU from each gen:
OU rn has 37 mons by usage (41 if count banned mons)
Gen 9 SV has 19 mons in OU. Counting Hisui mons bc there is his first playable OU


Gen 8 SS has 6 mons in OU.


Gen 7 SM has 1.


Gen 6 XY has 2.


Gen 5 BW has 2.


Gen 4 DPP has 3.


Gen 3 ADV has 1.


Gen 2 GSC has 1.


Gen 1 RBY has 2.


What is your opinion on this? Powercreep? Nerf? Both?

And with the passing of Breloom Heatran is now the oldest OU Veteran, being OU in every generation it's been available in (Which is all of them!).

Garchomp got banned to Ubers in Gen 4 so it kinda counts (And Rotom-W so should've rose to OU last gen, thanks tier rulings)

 

[artificialdeath]

I wanted to did this after Home drops to see how many mons are in OU from each gen:
OU rn has 37 mons by usage (41 if count banned mons)
Gen 9 SV has 19 mons in OU. Counting Hisui mons bc there is his first playable OU


Gen 8 SS has 6 mons in OU.


Gen 7 SM has 1.


Gen 6 XY has 2.


Gen 5 BW has 2.


Gen 4 DPP has 3.


Gen 3 ADV has 1.


Gen 2 GSC has 1.


Gen 1 RBY has 2.


What is your opinion on this? Powercreep? Nerf? Both?

As others have said, part of it is Dexit and part of it is power creep. Many of the mons from older gens that have stayed relevant in past gen OUs are legendaries and mythicals (the Tapus, UBs, Manaphy, Jirachi, Victini, etc), which may return with DLC given how GF seems to like doing that, plus stuff like Clef and Ferro. There might also be some mons like Torn-T that pick up in usage once people see how useful they still are, as well as things like Mew and Rillaboom that would appreciate getting some of their moves back with the inevitable tutors.

 

[the best worst]

And with the passing of Breloom Heatran is now the oldest OU Veteran, being OU in every generation it's been available in (Which is all of them!).

Breloom wasn’t OU in gen 7

 

[Lobby Eeveee]

It has happened, people. Never thought I'd live long enough to see it


View attachment 530820

The mighty has fallen

 

[Blue glass]

I wanted to did this after Home drops to see how many mons are in OU from each gen:
OU rn has 37 mons by usage (41 if count banned mons)
Gen 9 SV has 19 mons in OU. Counting Hisui mons bc there is his first playable OU


Gen 8 SS has 6 mons in OU.


Gen 7 SM has 1.


Gen 6 XY has 2.


Gen 5 BW has 2.


Gen 4 DPP has 3.


Gen 3 ADV has 1.


Gen 2 GSC has 1.


Gen 1 RBY has 2.


What is your opinion on this? Powercreep? Nerf? Both?

For comparison that is how gen 8 ended

gen1 (5)
Clefable, Dragonite, Mew, Slowbro, Zapdos

gen2 (2)
Blissey, Tyranitar

gen3 (1)
Pelipper

gen4 (4)
Garchomp, Heatran, Magnezone, Weavile

gen5 (6)
Bisharp, Ferrothorn, Landorus-Therian, Tornadus-Therian, Victini, Volcarona

gen6 (1)
Volcanion

gen7 (9)
Blacephalon, Buzzwole, Kartana, Ninetales-Alola, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Toxapex, Zeraora

gen8 (7)
Barraskewda, Corviknight, Dragapult, Melmetal, Rillaboom, Slowking-Galar, Urshifu-Rapid Strike

 

[Mega Breloom]

The mighty has fallen

My bro did better than expected, being OU with just 460 of BST (the lowest for an attacker in OU after Azu which has belly drum) for so long in the biggest powercreep era is a big archivement. Maybe it is time for it to get a new evo, I would prefer that about a new form.

 

[Delibird Heart]

Alright, I promise this is the last time I bother this thread with Quick Claw, but I just released the full RMT which expends on the points I'd already made in my earlier forum post, so I'd really appreciate it if you went and checked it out because I spent a fuckton of time on it lol: right here

The current state of OU is very strange... Torn-T and slowking dropped, but not Iron Treads ? I could have never guessed that in a million years tbh. Sandy shocks rising is also very shocking to me (pun completely intended). I don't see what it offers over other hazards setters, or, if you wanna use an offensive set, over something like val or enamorus.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Alright, I promise this is the last time I bother this thread with Quick Claw, but I just released the full RMT which expends on the points I'd already made in my earlier forum post, so I'd really appreciate it if you went and checked it out because I spent a fuckton of time on it lol: right here

The current state of OU is very strange... Torn-T and slowking dropped, but not Iron Treads ? I could have never guessed that in a million years tbh. Sandy shocks rising is also very shocking to me (pun completely intended). I don't see what it offers over other hazards setters, or, if you wanna use an offensive set, over something like val or enamorus.

With booster energy is a great setter that puts much pressure in the early game, having access to boltbeam thanks to tera and access to earth power makes it hard to switch into it while has a decent bulk for its speed surviving to a lot of things you won't think it would, the only downside is that it loses to sash sam, otherwise would be one of the best leads for HO.

 

[awyp]

My bro did better than expected, being OU with just 460 of BST (the lowest for an attacker in OU after Azu which has belly drum) for so long in the biggest powercreep era is a big archivement. Maybe it is time for it to get a new evo, I would prefer that about a new form.

Agreed but Spore is Spore, and a mon that possess spore like Amoonguss and Breloom usually do pretty well just based off of that. I can see Breloom rising again I've used it quite a lot the last couple of months and I have to say it's one of my favorite mons in Gen 9 because the introduction to Close Combat / Loaded Dice.

 

[MrE]

View attachment 530851
what the sandy shocks doin' [what does it do in the OU meta that others don't do better?]

seeing ceru finally drop to UU is well-appreciated so did Arcanine-H but thats likely going to UUBL

Shocks is a great mon, generates momentum for you really easily with it's spikes set as it can be quite hard to switch into, esp tera grass.

I'm sad I can't use em in UU anymore :( My fav team that I built can't use him anymore.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Agreed but Spore is Spore, and a mon that possess spore like Amoonguss and Breloom usually do pretty well just based off of that. I can see Breloom rising again I've used it quite a lot the last couple of months and I have to say it's mon of my favorite mons in Gen 9 because the introduction to Close Combat / Loaded Dice.

Grass was an amazing type to spam before home, outside Gholdengo, Guss and Dragonite nobody liked to switch into its stabs so you could run sd spore and stabs but now you need rock tomb if you want to no be walled by all the new flying types (especially Enamorus terrian), so you now had to pick between giving up sd or spore to which limits its range of good match ups so I get why it dropped.

Shocks is a great mon, generates momentum for you really easily with it's spikes set as it can be quite hard to switch into, esp tera grass.

I'm sad I can't use em in UU anymore :( My fav team that I built can't use him anymore.

It is funny because there was a vote for sandy shock were UU decited to keep it but OU just took it from them without caring about their vote.

 

[Alternator]

To steal Blue Glass's list, I've applied a strikethrough to mons who aren't in SV and bolded the mons who remain in OU or who were kicked to Ubers.


gen1 (5)
Clefable, Dragonite, Mew, Slowbro, Zapdos

gen2 (2)
Blissey, Tyranitar

gen3 (1)
Pelipper

gen4 (4)
Garchomp, Heatran, Magnezone, Weavile

gen5 (6)
Bisharp, Ferrothorn, Landorus-Therian, Tornadus-Therian, Victini, Volcarona

gen6 (1)
Volcanion

gen7 (9)
Blacephalon, Buzzwole, Kartana, Ninetales-Alola, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Toxapex, Zeraora

gen8 (7)
Barraskewda, Corviknight, Dragapult, Melmetal, Rillaboom, Slowking-Galar, Urshifu-Rapid Strike


That's twelve remaining in OU, plus Bisharp whose evo is in OU instead; twelve (including almost the entirety of Gen 7) dexited; ten fallen from OU. Quite the even split.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I wanted to did this after Home drops to see how many mons are in OU from each gen:
OU rn has 37 mons by usage (41 if count banned mons)
Gen 9 SV has 19 mons in OU. Counting Hisui mons bc there is his first playable OU


Gen 8 SS has 6 mons in OU.


Gen 7 SM has 1.


Gen 6 XY has 2.


Gen 5 BW has 2.


Gen 4 DPP has 3.


Gen 3 ADV has 1.


Gen 2 GSC has 1.


Gen 1 RBY has 2.


What is your opinion on this? Powercreep? Nerf? Both?

partially powercreep, partially the lack of transfer moves, partially the lingering effects of new toy syndrome. it's likely there are some older-gen mons that are still pretty solid but largely overlooked because of the sheer amount of role compression some of the gen 8-9 mons have

 

[Mega Breloom]

gen4 (4)
Garchomp, Heatran, Magnezone, Weavile

Chomp is stil OU despite all the memes, several youtubers making videos about it helped Chomp to no drop tbh.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

also, to provide some context for everyone, here's the percentage of ou mons in each gen that debuted in that gen, just to compare with gen 9:

gen 1:
13, 100% of the 13 mons in ou

gen 2:
11, ~45.8% of the 24 mons in ou

gen 3:
8, ~29.6% of the 27 mons in ou

gen 4:
21, ~42.8% of the 49 mons in ou

gen 5:
14, ~26.9% of the 52 mons in ou

gen 6:
19, ~32.7% of the 58 mons in ou

gen 7:
11, ~21.1% of the 52 mons in ou (i'm not counting totem kommo-o or battle bond regular greninja as separate mons because that's fucking stupid)

gen 8:
7, 20% of the 35 mons in ou

gen 9:
19, ~51.3% of the 37 mons in ou

so more than half of the mons in ou right now are from the current gen. percentage-wise, that's more than any other gen (gen 1 doesn't count because c'mon, that wouldn't be fair); in raw numbers, it's only beaten by gen 4. that being said, i think it's reasonable to assume that these numbers will change—the meta is still in a state of flux, and we have two dlcs to get through. when all is said and done, the raw number might be higher or lower, but it's very likely that the percentage will end up substantially lower thanks to the dlcs reintroducing old mons.

i'm not taking a position on whether this is good or bad because i genuinely don't care how many or how few new mons are ou as long as the meta is good (which i personally don't think it is right now but we're close, guys, we're really close). this is just data presented neutrally. make of it what you will

 

[Pabloaram]

also, to provide some context for everyone, here's the percentage of ou mons in each gen that debuted in that gen, just to compare with gen 9:

gen 1:
13, 100% of the 13 mons in ou

gen 2:
11, ~45.8% of the 24 mons in ou

gen 3:
8, ~29.6% of the 27 mons in ou

gen 4:
21, ~42.8% of the 49 mons in ou

gen 5:
14, ~26.9% of the 52 mons in ou

gen 6:
19, ~32.7% of the 58 mons in ou

gen 7:
11, ~21.1% of the 52 mons in ou (i'm not counting totem kommo-o or battle bond regular greninja as separate mons because that's fucking stupid)

gen 8:
7, 20% of the 35 mons in ou

gen 9:
19, ~51.3% of the 37 mons in ou

so more than half of the mons in ou right now are from the current gen. percentage-wise, that's more than any other gen (gen 1 doesn't count because c'mon, that wouldn't be fair); in raw numbers, it's only beaten by gen 4. that being said, i think it's reasonable to assume that these numbers will change—the meta is still in a state of flux, and we have two dlcs to get through. when all is said and done, the raw number might be higher or lower, but it's very likely that the percentage will end up substantially lower thanks to the dlcs reintroducing old mons.

i'm not taking a position on whether this is good or bad because i genuinely don't care how many or how few new mons are ou as long as the meta is good (which i personally don't think it is right now but we're close, guys, we're really close). this is just data presented neutrally. make of it what you will

Funny that in gen 6 if you don't count Megas you only have Talonflame (who drops in viability at the end) and Volcanion)

And in gen 7 there are or Tapus or UB or Broken mons like Ash-Gren and Magearna.

Outside of meme case like most gen 9 mons powercreep his preview gen conterpart. Ofc there is DLC and big heads like Clef and Ferro doesn't exist rn but is a way to look that

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Funny that in gen 6 if you don't count Megas you only have Talonflame (who drops in viability at the end) and Volcanion)

And in gen 7 there are or Tapus or UB or Broken mons like Ash-Gren and Magearna.

Outside of meme case like most gen 9 mons powercreep his preview gen conterpart. Ofc there is DLC and big heads like Clef and Ferro doesn't exist rn but is a way to look that

i genuinely don't know how useful clef and ferro are going to be. ferro's biggest draw was its ability to effectively set spikes when few other mons could, but now it has to compete with the six spikes mons that are ou by usage and several more that aren't but still exist in enough of a capacity to worry about (gren, meowscarada, mew, chesnaught, klefki, etc). garchomp even punishes physical attackers in the same way while being infinitely less passive. clef's probably losing teleport, which brings it down massively as a pivot, and its unaware sets aren't exactly unique anymore since there are three new viable unaware mons, two of which frequently turn into fairy-types. they'll still end up ou, no denying it, but they're not getting past this power creep unscathed

also, spidops still powercreeps most of its "early game bug shitmon" counterparts by merit of having 3 entry hazards, a phazing move, and stakeout. the fact that it's even on the pu viability ranking puts it a step above similar mons from previous gens