Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[SnackWasTaken]

Defeating the patriarchy
Tsareena @ Expert Belt
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- Tera Blast
56 Atk Expert Belt Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 470-557 (117.5 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
56 Atk Expert Belt Tera Electric Tsareena Tera Blast vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Kingambit: 218-259 (54.5 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gambit killer with high jump kick, even the bully set gets OHKO’d. Tera Blast Electric can deal with an Tera Flying. Also has rapid spin for hazard removal, and to get the jump on some slower Pokémon. Power Whip also OHKO’s Tusk, after a CC defense drop.
56 Atk Expert Belt Tsareena Power Whip vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 449-533 (121 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So, I hope this satisfies DynamaxBestMeta request.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

And Tera Preview does not help with that. The only way to solve the various Garganacl Tera types is to solve them in the teambuilder.

It doesn't matter what this team does, Tera Water Garg walls it:

Importable

Sneasler @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dire Claw
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Shadow Claw

Enamorus @ Expert Belt
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Mystical Fire
- Tailwind

Samurott-Hisui @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword

Zamazenta @ Expert Belt
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Psychic Fangs

Iron Treads @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Spinner

Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Slack Off

252 SpA Tera Fairy Enamorus Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Garganacl: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

...Yes, I thought building this Toxapex-weak team was a decent idea. Somehow got me to 1600s in ladder so the core's likely fine. I have been adjusting the last slot for a while to try to seal the Toxapex and Dondozo weaknesses; Slowking-G left me too open to Corviknight and crashed me into the 1500s with several losses in a row, while Zapdos has been faring better but makes the team noticeably softer to Iron Valiant. At least Scarf Sneasler OHKOes non-Tera Iron Valiant and pretty much no Booster Energy Iron Valiant user I've gone up against ever suspects Scarf.

Honestly, this team also has a rough time with Tera Fairy Garg, and having to wear it down with Skeledirge is one of the team's saner ideas:

252 Atk Sneasler Dire Claw vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Tera Fairy Garganacl: 168-200 (41.5 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Don't get me started on Tera Flying Garg against this team:

252 Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Tera Flying Garganacl: 161-190 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

At least Samurott-H covers Tera Ghost Garg for a while:

252 Atk Expert Belt Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Tera Ghost Garganacl: 216-254 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

When it comes to offensively breaking walls that can Tera, Terastallized Pokemon need to be treated as entirely different Pokemon in the teambuilder. Note that this is why I am against Tera Preview - it simply will not do enough. Tera Blast doesn't quite have enough abusers to make banning it alone have enough impact, and banning non-STAB Tera still lets dual-typed Pokemon use Tera defensively to suddenly check enough of their revenge killers (e.g. Tera Fairy Enamorus on my team is partially to stuff Baxcalibur). Banning STAB Tera does not remove Tera negating checks and suddenly swinging 1-vs.-1's in your favour. IMO, it's ban Tera completely or bust.

you've pointed out that the team struggles against bulky water-types and tera garg in general. maybe you should run zapdos, the answer to those that you already found, instead of using them as a "ban the thing that beats my team" talking point

 

[Lobby Eeveee]

the bully set

what

Otherwise this seems like a good lure. I prefer to swap out ebelt for boots tho

 

[Red Raven]

It has happened, people. Never thought I'd live long enough to see it

 

[Nish the Great]

Glad to see iron treads supremacy continuing

 

[UnfortunateSal]

It has happened, people. Never thought I'd live long enough to see it


View attachment 530820

I was here in early gen 6 when it was UUBL for like two years, it will rise back up eventually, don't worry about it

 

[Napoli Burns]

quick claw is still not banned?

how can i predicted when a pokemon randomly goes to 50 base speed to +1 priority? Finchinator

 

[Komodo_Drogo]

Sandy shocks ou? Someone explain please.

 

[awyp]

Tornadus Therian and Cresselia won’t be in UU for that long is my assumption

 

[TCTphantom]

Iron Treads lingering in OU while Torn T drops is a tragedy. Seriously Treads is dog water.

 

[Endrism]

Now that the first shift has happened, I want to make a sort of prediction post laying out what I think will return to OU given time as new toy syndrome is still going on a bit, so once the meta has settled here's my predictions:


Weather always seems to suffer when there are new toys to play with, and once the meta truly settles down and weather hops back into the meta these 3 will most likely be back on the rise.


I may be in denial, but I cannot fathom Torn-T being UU, it may have lost some utility, but it's still Torn-T for gods sake.


The dirge is just so good at walling things with Unaware, good defenses, and the possibility to tera to stop its checks. I see no reason this thing doesn't rise back into the meta.


Chilly Reception is a great pivot move thats a decent replacement for Teleport, which still allows for FuturePort strats to work well. Still the incredible SpDef wall it always has been too.

Maybes:


Gapdos I think is unexplored because of all the new toys. FutureReception Slowking + CC Gapdos seems like it has a TON of potential.


Still does the same things it did last gen, could definitely see it rise back up given time and experimentation.


Funny all 3 birds are mentioned, but this one depends on tera imo. Tera CM Competitive Articuno-Galar is scary, but without tera it loses coverage and wouldn't be OU as Tera Blast is the only thing giving it the viability it needs.


CM Enamorus can sweep teams given the chance, but I think this one may depend on tera as well, as Tera Ground Earth Power or just Tera Steel to hard wall steel and poison moves that would normally take you down is an incredible thing to use to turn the tides of battle.


For the exact same reasons as Enamorus-Therian above. CM Tera Cress is terrifying with the ability to change types, but if it loses that I see it being UU/RU.

Things I think won't return:


I think this was the final straw for the mischievous cat. Protean just isn't what it used to be, and while Flower Trick is a great move, I think the increase of usable offensive pokemon outlines how frail Meowscarada is.


Although this thing hurts really bad, I just don't see it getting enough usage over time to return to OU, I do see it getting banned from UU as Rock Head Flare Blitz + Head Smash hurts way too much, but UUBL I think is as far as it may go.


Agony. Everyones favorite mushroom boy just doesn't have a future in OU. It already was hanging on by a thread, and with the new threats it has most likely been pushed over the edge. Could see it being a great UU mon though, so maybe his future still looks bright. Goodbye Mushroom Friend. :(

 

[awyp]

Sandy shocks ou? Someone explain please.

it’s been really good in those Hyper Offensive teams that you’ll see with Samu-H. This was expected I think what wasn’t expected to be honest was Moltres having less than 2% usage.

 

[Dive Missile]

it might be hard to believe but roaring moon was closer to dropping to uu than treads was

 

[MrE]

it might be hard to believe but roaring moon was closer to dropping to uu than treads was

View attachment 530831

Who uses Treads?

 

[Finchinator]

quick claw is still not banned?

how can i predicted when a pokemon randomly goes to 50 base speed to +1 priority? Finchinator

cope

 

[BolTingBlazie]

It has happened, people. Never thought I'd live long enough to see it


View attachment 530820

Rip torn-t, victim to new toy. I think it will be back within the next few months though...

 

[Crimson Chris]

in UU is wild.

 

[awyp]

cope

Well what do qualified voters think? curious

 

[KrazyKoopa95]

has Smogon release the Ubers usage stats?

 

[ant4456]

cope

"The likely counter-argument is that people are making a calculated decision sacrificing Cloyster’s item slot in order to get flinches rather than improve damage output or survivability. However, when this flinch chance is entirely reliant on RNG and items bolstering damage or survivability are not, it becomes clear that this trade-off is an uncompetitive one that leads to games being decided largely on flinch chances. The main other counter-argument is that if Cloyster is the main abuser of this strategy, then banning the Pokemon would be more in-line with our philosophy. I do not believe that applies here — especially to older generations such as BW — given the nature of King’s Rock and our history of banning other RNG elements of the game. "

I wonder who said this

 

[Crimson Chris]

Also Smogon fans, don't let this distract you from the fact that the reject Bakugan is still OU while Dirge, Meow and Torn-T dropped. He refuses to drop. At this point I respect the determination.

 

[UnfortunateSal]

cope

clearly if more people watched the Reverend video where he loses to like 4 Quick Claw procs in a row, the results would be reversed

 

[awyp]

Also Smogon fans, don't let this distract you from the fact that the reject Bakugan is still OU. He refuses to drop. At this point I respect the determination.

View attachment 530834

I'm am at fault, I've been using Iron Treads on my rain team, it just fulfills a nice rolls sometimes, some times it might not do much but set up Stealth Rock or just Rapid Spin but some games especially in addition of Speed Booster Energy it goes on a light run / sweep. I am truly a fan of this mon, will it ever drop? who knows.

 

[turd2]

Iron Treads dumps on a lot of hazard stack teams that are built to handle Tusk... some of my teams struggled with him on low ladder.

Once you get sufficiently high on the ladder, you never see him, but he's everywhere on your way up.

 

[Mega Breloom]

It has happened, people. Never thought I'd live long enough to see it


View attachment 530820

Torn losing defog and knock is bigger than what most people is giving credit, without those moves it really doesn't do much, pivot move + regen is nice, but Torn being so fast is a huge drawback for that and Glowking does that better with the slow chilly reception, Gus offers a solid Valiant answer + spore and Pex wall stuff better. It is just gets outclassed for now and this isn't gen8 anymore so spamming regen mons isn't as effective outside stall. Maybe on dlcs it will be better with the tutor moves.
Drige dropping is weird, the meta rn uses a lot of set up so I don't get why it would drop if the meta is ideal for it.