I will be really sad if they banned Sneasler just because of Dire hit. Just ban the move pls
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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Lol I think you meant Dire Hit.
To prevent this being a one liner I just have a quick question, what evs does shi(f)t gear + cm Magearna run? I assume it's max speed and hp and 4 evs on def, spa, or spdef. But you may gladly correct me if I'm wrong.
Regarding it's description, possibly only the moves secondary effect matter, so poison touch can poison a mon with covert cloak
Edit: A quick note poison touch only happens if the move is considered a contact move.
On the topic of Lando-T, I have had some success with Scarf Brick Break, just in case I run into some Screens HO.Protect: remember that the outside is sometimes dangerous, dragons, organ trafiquers, Disnelyland security guards, scout them all, see what the horizon waits for you, so be safe, be protected and just munch on your mom's sandwich that was made with love and careOH NO, MY FAVORITE MON LOST TOXIC, WHAT AM I GONNA DO?
A guide for any and all Toxic Lovers that need help
Hello people, its me 1LDK, and something I have been noticing is how people got too used to spam Toxic, now, it is understandable why, Toxic is a great move that serves as a ticking timer for most mons, can serve as a stall move, a wall breaker move, a pressure move, a "I hate all creatures in earth great and small" Darkseid rizz move, and a lot of etc. But things change, time changes, and with the new HOME meta, you will see that the friends you have made in previous gens have "changed" but don't worry, you have to look at the things the bright way and ask "WW1D" which means "What would 1LDK do", so lets dive in some movepools that need some support shall we?
So let's look at one example, look at this, it's Heatran!
[audible heatran noises]
Who doesn't love an OU titan that can sponge several special hits and is able to hit back with its spicy moves, unfortunately, losing toxic it means it can no longer trap as efficiently with Magma Storm! This is a problem! A problem that we are gonna solve together!, so the first thing you wanna do is to imagine the set, okay?
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
Great job! Now, I know that you want to automatically put Toxic, but remember, we are not in gen 8 anymore, this is gen 9, and before you wanna cry and curse at gamefreak for all their mistakes in the past 30 years, let's see the steps to see on how we fill this hole
You might see something barren and empty at first, but good trainers always want to fill niches and found opportunities to surprise the opponent for some spicy gameplay, so let see some candidates that have volunteered themselves to show
Stealth Rock: Good ol rocky is here to fill the land with its pointy rocks of chaos! heatran is a good user of the move because there's little to be afraid of thanks to the move removal of various spinners and defoggers, and tera grass helps you against the elephant Great Tusk, just hope he doesn't like eating grass!
Flash Cannon: Look at that, a shiny beam of light, it's shiny, it's cool, and it hits fairies! Specially some new pesky additions like Enamorus, and the Iron Valiant who is currently outside your door and wants to sell children's blood in the form of strawberry juice, tell him that you are not interested and blast him away with your superpowers!
Power Gem: Have you ever tried to shoot a bird? You will find that these pesky flying bugs are truly sneaky, capable to escape even Magma Storms with U-turns!, and while not all birds are created equal, some of them might find it easier to escape your wrath, so let's just hit them with rocks! They are painful, smack them down and make them suffer more!
Tera Blast: Oh man, looks like you have some great enthusiasms in taking full use of your mutations, grass is a powerful type that hits waters, grounds and discord mods for super effective damage! Try it on your local fauna, it is specially funny when it's raining and the fishes want to stretch their legs, drive them to extinction!
Will-o-Wisp: Some people just love Halloween, and they want to express this whimsical day with everyone, trick and treat? More like burn and die, watch at all of them losing chip health, combine this with taunt and magma storm to create some high burning fun for everyone
See? There's plenty of option, but I know what you're thinking! "1LDK! Not everyone has the same move pool as him, what about something like Lando" Well, I'm glad you ask, let's see what we have
Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
Looks like we have a similar problem here, a bigger one than before! But don't worry, remember to think with optimism and creativity, and look at the move pool and think what this would do for you!
Smack Down / Stone Edge: Just what we needed, more options to deal with birds, one is a sniper rifle that guaranteed that flying mon is going down, while the latter is an SMG that deletes him, aim properly!
U-Turn: looks like you found yourself the ability to bounce off the walls and help your teammates get in with you, everything is more fun if done with friends, and friends sometimes helps you to deal with what you have in front, remember, asking for help is not a sign of weakness, but dying is!
Swords Dance: Violence
Substitute: Speaking of friends, you seem to have none! Don't worry, you can just buy one of our stuffies at Pokemazon dot com. And enjoy this new friend who will protect you from danger, don't let it take too much, or it will crumble into pieces! And that will cost you money and emotional damage!
Fly: You're finally flying! One of the greatest dreams of men, and you are in the skies, ready to smack the enemy from above, don't get too exited kid, many people have eyes and will probably see you coming a mile away, but don't let that stop the fun
Conclusion:
There are a lot more options that we haven't talked about in this guide, and more mons to see, but that's where your job starts, so remember to be creative, change items, see spreads, moves and the most important thing is to have fun in the process!
Thank you for checking this guide, remember to check out other guides such as "How to cope when your heat sets fail" and "I just got 6-0 by stall, how do I avoid into the realm of self-destructive behavior" buy these 3 together at $39.99 dollar combo, see you all in the next guide, byeee!
But yeah this meta is kinda unplayable lmao, Magearna is the most blatantly broken thing in the tier with Regieleki not far behind, both of these need to be quickbanned asap (Ursaluna probably broken too but I haven't had that much trouble with it in practice). Also Urshifu-RS is pretty dumb too lmao, Tera Water puts its way over the edge. Chien-Pao I haven't seen too much but I can't imagine that it's balanced even with Magearna and the Zamas running around, but it's less of a pressing issue than the other 4 I mentioned for sure.
Also Enamorus is pretty great from my experience, and I'm not even talking about Contrary, CM / Moonblast / EPower / Mystical fire is a great set with ridiculous coverage, and the Flying typing helps so much vs Lando-T and other grounds. I assumed Iron Valiant would outclass it, but the Flying typing and better coverage helps a lot, also it's pretty much a perfect switch-in to non Ice-Spinner Great Tusk since it takes nothing fron any of its other moves and only really fears losing its boots (not that I have ever seen Great Tusk in this meta lmao)
My assessement of the Sharpness hazard setters is that they're both really, really good, Kleavor maybe a little less than Samurott, but it's still really powerful and hard to deal with defensively, especially with SD. Hitting hard and setting hazards at the same time is kinda dumb lmao
Sneasler on paper seems absolutely fucking ridiculous, but in practice, with the really fast pace of the tier, I haven't had much of a chance to like... send it in? Once it is in it absolutely ruins lives though, I really do think Banded Poison Touch is the way to go, especially with CC just annihilating everything not named Gholdengo, it's so strong and I expect it to be suspected once the obvious broken threats are ou of the way and the metagame slows down.
Also idk if it's because I'm running exactly zero fire resists, but Scarf Arcanine-H has ruined me multiple times lol, it seems pretty damn good if you can support it with good hazard removal.
Hey, I mean you could say this for most of the mons unbanned, like some trying to say
could be balanced, it's basically the same thing as letting 
in OU at this point its so crazy
So we ALL AGREE on what's threatening. That's good to note for laterWhere I stand currently:
are the "big two" in terms of seemingly inevitable quickbans.
To me, Regieleki is even more broken than Magearna. Substitute has seen some usage, and I think it does great at easing the Tera prediction element when facing specific Ground types or things that can Tera Ground like Magearna. I feel like from there, it really takes over a lot of games and dominates the Tera timing/selection on both sides. I find it to not be support reliant or revenge killable while being an absolute monster offensively and being able to pivot out of some situations where it cannot nab an OHKO while potentially getting OHKO'd, so Regieleki is the perfect, broken offensive presence to me.
Of course, Magearna is still ridiculous. It can handpick its own counters, it can function as offensive or hazard utility, it can sweep with stacking boosts, and it can sweep with seemingly perfect coverage. This Pokemon is not long for the tier and it leaving will impact a lot of other things a great deal. I view it as behind Regieleki by a small amount as it is slower and sometimes it depends on its set for it to have a chance in any given match-up, but ultimately it is clearly not healthy and it is not possible to prepare for fully.
Personally, I would love to see these two removed sooner rather later, especially in the case of Regieleki (but also, I am confident both will go soon).
I personally rate higher than Crowned. Having an item slot is a godsend and it can pull off the best of both sides of the spectrum with access to Choice Band breaking sets as well as Iron Defense with gnarly strength.
is still very good, but I find it to be a bit more "cheese"y as you know exactly what it will do and while Body Press is ungodly strong, there are a handful of hard stops that make it more possible to account for than most things you would see quickbanned at this phase.
is a weird one. On the surface, it is absurdly broken, but in greater depth, it relies a ton on support. This odd balancing act still is not very balanced for the tier as it hinges on guesswork when given decent conditions and these conditions are easier to set-up than ever, but I at least find Ursaluna playable and minimizable relative to Regieleki and Magearna. Definitely worthy of being on the radar, but not committed to any outcome yet. If it outlasts Magearna, Trick Room may also reshape and this could dictate more for Ursaluna.
is just as broken as before, but now you see its speed tier shining brighter than ever while less dedicated walls exist to stop Tera Dark Crunch. The occasional SD + Tera Blast variant is clutch to circumvent resists/checks, too.
Finally,is absurd. Dire Claw is a nightmare to a competitive environment. I need to see how it pans out a tad as it's not as strong a Pokemon as those above, but the impacts of the move alone can have uncompetitive ramifications and reduce counterplay to praying odds go your way -- fuck that. And obviously Urshifu-R is very strong with some new toys, but I have personally not tried it yet and intend to tomorrow, so more on that later perhaps.
Would like to try and push the first ban through tomorrow, but a lot is still up in the air -- at worst, later this week we will have a council vote, so stay tuned!
smogon wont do this for the same reason they wont ban rage fist, move/complex bans are annoying
if only one pokemon can use the move, and the move is admittedly oppressive, then its safer to just ban the pokemon to ubers
if its a problem up THERE, then we can look into banning the move
PLEASE BAN REGIELEKI AND MAGEARNA AND ZAMAC
i think magearna can genuinely be reasonably checked in a more balanced meta because dirge, tran, and volc all take advantage of the stored power variant, not to mention trickscarf dengo and treads also beat it
its clearly broken now though so ban it and test it later
zama c is just super unbreakable with ironpress and forces hazepex or like physdef helmet zapdos or physdef dengo on every team and consistently goes 3 or 4 for 1
eleki needs no explanation the only checks to tera ice are treads gastro and ting lu
i think magearna can genuinely be reasonably checked in a more balanced meta because dirge, tran, and volc all take advantage of the stored power variant, not to mention trickscarf dengo and treads also beat it
its clearly broken now though so ban it and test it later
zama c is just super unbreakable with ironpress and forces hazepex or like physdef helmet zapdos or physdef dengo on every team and consistently goes 3 or 4 for 1
eleki needs no explanation the only checks to tera ice are treads gastro and ting lu
It's actually fascinating how many flavors of cheese-HO are competitive at the moment, between Trick Room, Screens, Rain, and Hazard Stack. Regarding the latter, most of the time hazards aren't even necessary due to how strong the breakers are lol
Seriously people worrying about dire claw is the most silly thing we have had in a minute
give it time in the meta, it might be broken but it also might not be!! There’s so many viable poisons, ghosts, grounds, etc that can deal with sneasler so far. Yes the secondary effect is really good, but not undealable with (yet). I think this is one of those things that needs time for some meta adaptations, similar to salt cure.
speaking of salt cure, tera ghost/poison/ground physically optimised garganacl is a great way to deal with most sneasler sets. Pick the Tera based on whether you also wanna deal with Zamazenta, chien pao or eleki. Nothing it can use will deal with magearna unfortunately
if sneasler had knock off id be on the ban train, but it don’t. Lol
give it time in the meta, it might be broken but it also might not be!! There’s so many viable poisons, ghosts, grounds, etc that can deal with sneasler so far. Yes the secondary effect is really good, but not undealable with (yet). I think this is one of those things that needs time for some meta adaptations, similar to salt cure.
speaking of salt cure, tera ghost/poison/ground physically optimised garganacl is a great way to deal with most sneasler sets. Pick the Tera based on whether you also wanna deal with Zamazenta, chien pao or eleki. Nothing it can use will deal with magearna unfortunately
if sneasler had knock off id be on the ban train, but it don’t. Lol
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Wait... Isn't the WCoP like SPL in the sense that it updates with the meta? If so (and if it's live), we might see some dumb shit happen bruh
ok so here's the thing: you genuinely cannot account for regieleki ice tera blast in the team builder. it's just too fast. like I'm running scarf enam on HO and the moment people start maxing speed on leki that stops working and I have to think of something else.
It's a hazard stacker that loses to glimmora because you let it get t spikes. I like it a lot but for HO teams, lead meowscarda is still your best bet if you don't want to lose instantly
Honestly, I don't find hero to be that problematic, it isn't absurdly bulky and its 4mss and pure fighting typing really shows, and its coverage isn't even that strong.Where I stand currently:
To me, Regieleki is even more broken than Magearna. Substitute has seen some usage, and I think it does great at easing the Tera prediction element when facing specific Ground types or things that can Tera Ground like Magearna. I feel like from there, it really takes over a lot of games and dominates the Tera timing/selection on both sides. I find it to not be support reliant or revenge killable while being an absolute monster offensively and being able to pivot out of some situations where it cannot nab an OHKO while potentially getting OHKO'd, so Regieleki is the perfect, broken offensive presence to me.
Of course, Magearna is still ridiculous. It can handpick its own counters, it can function as offensive or hazard utility, it can sweep with stacking boosts, and it can sweep with seemingly perfect coverage. This Pokemon is not long for the tier and it leaving will impact a lot of other things a great deal. I view it as behind Regieleki by a small amount as it is slower and sometimes it depends on its set for it to have a chance in any given match-up, but ultimately it is clearly not healthy and it is not possible to prepare for fully.
Personally, I would love to see these two removed sooner rather later, especially in the case of Regieleki (but also, I am confident both will go soon).
Finally,
Would like to try and push the first ban through tomorrow, but a lot is still up in the air -- at worst, later this week we will have a council vote, so stay tuned!
Crowned on the other hand is 100% busted though, that extra steel typing and stats go a massively long way for body press sets, even if its locked into an item and not obscenely fast.
Aren't non held items unable to be used in online battles?
Y'all gotta stop with the BST argument as if there's not more to a pokemon. Especially when shit like 680 BST Hoopa is in the game and there's plenty of pokemon being talked about being way more broken than it.Who knew that putting a 700bst mon that's part steel in OU would be really rough to handle?
Almost the (fast) busted Pokémon’s are handled by eleki to some degree.
zamazentas: outsped, chipped with volt switch into your lando, until they’re in KO range. Rarely run Tera ground
magearna: you can bait out the Tera ground, chipped by volt switch into your ground/fire type such as ursaluna or heatran. Grounds should carry coverage for flying Tera, whilst fires should have a way to address Tera water. Although both those Tera’s are revengeable by eleki if she decides to Tera (the coverage is to get her to sub 70%)
enamorous: outsped and KOd from a high HP threshold. Can bait out the Tera ground, can just Tera ice Terablast for a safe bet
chien pao: technically not handled too well, due to priority. This is the exception
urshifu-R: if it isn’t packing Aqua jet it’s easily dealt with. That said, I think every urshifu is packing Aqua jet in this meta.
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What it can’t handle:
jolly or bulky ursaluna are both brutal hitters. I’m packing balloon gholdengo as a partner on the current team in use, usually ursaluna hates hazards, so hazards + helmets on regenerators go far. Whilst it hits disgustingly hard, it’s limited by just how many Pokémon’s are immune to its moves and/or force it out, and force it to come back into hazards. 50% ursaluna can be dealt with for most teams, 100% is near impossible without correct 50/50 calls.
by the way. I know no one reads these walls of text, here’s some replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1874623480-vfrgojpj6jgpt7kzgvg7ycrmukjgswepw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1874751863-7z8a396ryazestczzlmjmbp5i28qe6gpw
zamazentas: outsped, chipped with volt switch into your lando, until they’re in KO range. Rarely run Tera ground
magearna: you can bait out the Tera ground, chipped by volt switch into your ground/fire type such as ursaluna or heatran. Grounds should carry coverage for flying Tera, whilst fires should have a way to address Tera water. Although both those Tera’s are revengeable by eleki if she decides to Tera (the coverage is to get her to sub 70%)
enamorous: outsped and KOd from a high HP threshold. Can bait out the Tera ground, can just Tera ice Terablast for a safe bet
chien pao: technically not handled too well, due to priority. This is the exception
urshifu-R: if it isn’t packing Aqua jet it’s easily dealt with. That said, I think every urshifu is packing Aqua jet in this meta.
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What it can’t handle:
jolly or bulky ursaluna are both brutal hitters. I’m packing balloon gholdengo as a partner on the current team in use, usually ursaluna hates hazards, so hazards + helmets on regenerators go far. Whilst it hits disgustingly hard, it’s limited by just how many Pokémon’s are immune to its moves and/or force it out, and force it to come back into hazards. 50% ursaluna can be dealt with for most teams, 100% is near impossible without correct 50/50 calls.
by the way. I know no one reads these walls of text, here’s some replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1874623480-vfrgojpj6jgpt7kzgvg7ycrmukjgswepw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1874751863-7z8a396ryazestczzlmjmbp5i28qe6gpw
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