I mean, quaq is a decent spinner, so of course its going to be ranked (I would go into it more, but people probably don't want to hear about it).
Breloom though, why? They dropped 4 better mons to UR before it.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter ausma
- Start date
Breloom though, why? They dropped 4 better mons to UR before it.
FishSucksAtPKMN
Banned deucer.
UR -> SLiterally invincible, why would anyone want to hit it? Its too cute to be hit!
Look at these calcs, this proves snom op
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ice Scales Snom: 74-87 (28 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ice Scales Snom: 222-262 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tanking a 4x effective move like that, op
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ice Scales Snom: 80-94 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 40.6% chance to 3HKO
(april fools)
BECAUSE ITS THE OBVIOUS BEST MON IN GENERAL AND COMPETITIVELY!
Okay, seriously now, it threatens a lot of top mons I guess. It can really force progress while being hard to wear down by spreading status and being immune to hazards with its HDB pivot sets, really annoying top mons with thunder wave and chipping threats with its powerful hex and bringing in breakers with uturn. It can even make double status work, luring in physical threats after revealing thunder wave and neutralizing them. Choice specs sets are still decent since they spam an extremely spammable move which is hard to switch into given it hits gking for super-effective STAB damage. Focus sash sets are still good too if you can keep hazards off the field as a onetime guaranteed sweeper-stopper with twave and hex (unless you get haxed) as well as still having decent utility overall. Dragapult is still just extremely fast and useful as a team slot and it gives so much value that it DESERVES TO BE S TIER DON’T YOU DARE DROP IT BELOW THAT.
The Meg herald it's way into SV OU with Psychic fury. Recently released, the terra psychic Meg roars as it raises it's sauropod body into the air and crushes it's opponents with it's immense fighting/psychic body press aided by a boosted psychic gravity to increase it's weight to new heights, and then crushing every single ou pokemon with a base power of over 9000 as a result. No Pokémon can stand against the meg it's cheerful face making sure it moves first always, before pressing every pokemon into oblivion.
Turning every Pokémon into pancakes just in time for the Easter Dessert wishing everyone a happy Easter monday and most of all a happy April fools
Are these April Fools posts allowed? I’m not on the thread 24/7 and I really don’t want the thread to be locked because people are posting April Fools jokes. They’re not bad though ngl.
On fat balance definitely as a wall.
For me it’s hard to fit in teams. It doesn’t really fit on HO and balance hates the LO recoil. That limits it to basically only offence.
For sure it can be a beast and pain for teams to switch into. Especially since it can surprise you with band or specs and even dragon dance. Good matchups with top mons which give it a lot of opportunities to put in work helps too.
Last edited:
Clearly tinkaton stall is the sole reason for its rise in viability and I am not coping
On a more serious note not surprised to see Pult rising, that mon is scary and feels like it can tear a hole through any team with either of its sets
Also how did treads not plummet? I can see some uses but I’m kind of confused on how it isn’t still hard outclassed by tusk, not that familiar with the two tho since I mostly play stall
On a more serious note not surprised to see Pult rising, that mon is scary and feels like it can tear a hole through any team with either of its sets
Also how did treads not plummet? I can see some uses but I’m kind of confused on how it isn’t still hard outclassed by tusk, not that familiar with the two tho since I mostly play stall
Overqwil was not ranked :'(
The drops (in particular torn and comfey the fake mfs) are nice even though imo kingdra should have been unranked entirely. also agree with the breloom UR talk, that mon is not doing anything in OU without spore, sd loaded dice technician sets hits extremely hard but they can't find any opportunity to set up and they get outsped by everything.
However I don't really understand the Thundy-I, Moltres-G, Iron Crown and Weezing-G rises, what made the meta more favorable to any of these mons lately?
The drops (in particular torn and comfey the fake mfs) are nice even though imo kingdra should have been unranked entirely. also agree with the breloom UR talk, that mon is not doing anything in OU without spore, sd loaded dice technician sets hits extremely hard but they can't find any opportunity to set up and they get outsped by everything.
However I don't really understand the Thundy-I, Moltres-G, Iron Crown and Weezing-G rises, what made the meta more favorable to any of these mons lately?
Thundy-I isn’t in the VR (it should be), but as for the other three.
Goltres is ok. It hates Rbolt, Garg, and needs Tera for Gambit, but it does have a small place on screens due to its resistances.
Crown is a good pivot/special sponge on BO due to its matchups with stuff like Deo-S, Glimm, and Kyurem. There’s also Specs which is a nuke that 3HKOs bulky resists with Tera like Skeledirge. Imo the most underrated mon in the tier and I’m glad its getting recognized.
G-Weezing is another underrated mon. Neutralizing Gas Defog sets can disrupt Balance structures and Regen mons while being able to always click Defog. Levitate has positive matchups into Lando, Tusk, Val, SD Gliscor, and more. Balance structures have been on the rise lately and G-Weez can fufill a multitude of roles such as ground immune, fairy, status spreader, defogger, or tspike absorber.
This p much; I voted for Deoxys-S to stay A ranked. Deoxys-S is mid-high A rank from me, outclassing all of A- and a few things in A even. It’s a really good Pokemon and people just took some time to find optimal applications of it. Nowadays you see it a fair amount and it’s effective.
I don’t really agree with the people who voted for it to be lower, but they’re entitled to their opinions. I actually think that this metagame is changing quickly enough to the point that there’s more variance in metagame perception than usual anyway. Not everyone who does the VR is going to be in lockstep and that’s quite alright. We had someone who is a very good player on the VR council even vote B+ on it iirc.
Regardless, I will personally nominate it to go back to A for the next slate (and vote for it to rise back up again).
Breloom even without Spore is a decent wallbreaker. Loaded Dice Bullet Seed with Technician Bulldoze, CC, and Mach Punch make it a tool into fatter structures with some utility into offense thanks to Mach Punch out-prioritizing Kingambit Sucker Punch, as well as Breloom's ability to resist Grassy Glide and Thunderclap.
Ceruledge has the potential to be a nasty win condition with SD + Weak Armor and Bitter Blade alongside a positive pre-Tera Volcarona and Iron Valiant matchup. It can also be a more durable win condition with Bulk Up + Taunt alongside Tera and Flash Fire under the right conditions.
Regarding Deo-S, I personally don't agree with the drop either. However, with how we aggregate votes for the VR, A- was the ultimate shift. Highv0ltag3 was the main proponent against Deo-S so maybe he can elaborate a bit for those who are dissatisfied with the initial reasoning.
Wanted to mention that Corv and Skarm dropped (rightly so) and apparently Skeledirge rose because I thought it was B+ last slate, but netiher of these were officially mentioned. As well, I want to ask why Blissey is so low if, like with Dozo, it's mostly on fat structures, but is apparently near mandatory for them.
Blissey has very limited use outside of Stall, Dondozo however is still good in Balanced teams.
A few reasons I voted B+ on Deo-S:
-A lot of it´s impact comes from surprise factor regarding the set, but it can´t really fit all the moves it wants to hit it´s answers. If it lacks Shadow Ball, Hatterene will be a great answer. If it lacks Knock Off- Slowking-Galar is safe into it aside from Shadow Ball SPD Drops. If it isn´t running Life Orb, Clefable can switch into Psycho Boost safely, but if it is, it has very few opportunities to come in after Life Orb Recoil in a hazard infested metagame.
-Priority Spam metagame:
This one is self-explanatory, being the fastest mon in the tier isn´t as relevant when Kingambit and Rillaboom revenge you with priority moves anyways. (It sometimes runs psychic Terrain to troll Kingambit, but you still can´t circumvent Rillaboom)
-Corviknight (I´ve been seeing a lot of Corviknigh ton ladder and it´s arguably one of it´s best answers since tbolt is extremely rare)
With that being said, a few metagame trends already happened after my vote which increased Deo-S´s viability once again, such as Rain falling out of the metagame, meaning there are less methods for revenge killing it.
SV OU: DLC2 drops and rises
Wanted to go through some of my votes, what I thought should rise and fall and what rank changes I disagree with; I echo Finch's sentiment earlier about other voters being entitled to their opinions, these are just my own personal takes on the meta and what I think about each mon. My personal votes are denoted by [Original Rank] -> [My vote] (±Change), while the actual change is written in as this -> [Final rank] (+Change) or -> [Final rank] (-Change). Hope this gives some insights as to the changes in the recent slate along with my thoughts on them!
3 votes for S-
- Slowking-G, A+
-> S- (+1), -> A+ (=0)
- Ogerpon-W, A
-> S- (+2), -> A+ (+1)
- Zamazenta, A
-> S- (+2), -> A+ (+1)
I voted that all 3 of these should rise to S- due to their continued dominance both on ladder and in tours; it feels like using balance without Galarian Slowking is actively throwing while it's still a solid pick on bulkier Fsight offense, Ogerpon-Wellspring is dominant to the point that the tier is starting to warp around it again, and Zamazenta is really, really strong into offense vs offense while being able to find value in other matchups. A+ is a fitting rank for all 3, but I'd personally rank them above anything else in A+ to fill out the currently empty S- tier.
Rising Stars
- Ogerpon-C, C+
-> B+ (+3), -> B+ (+3)
- Ogerpon, C
-> B+ (+4), -> B+ (+4)
Both non-Wellspring Ogerpon forms got a well-deserved rise in the VR update. Cornerstone finds a place as a powerful attacker able to hit a massive chunk of the tier hard with its dual STAB, while also being able to pack Low Kick and Knock Off and having the utility of Wellspring along with Sturdy. Meanwhile, Tealpon's ability to run Heavy-Duty Boots makes it a solid pick for teams where Wellspring's hazard weakness isn't appreciated, with an additional solid matchup into opposing Wellspring. Good mons and both deserving of a pretty large rise.
- Darkrai, B+
-> A (+2), -> A (+2)
Even with the removal of its Hypnosis set, Darkrai has proven itself as a powerful mon that can find a lot of value past just clicking Dark Pulse. Basically only Clod can safely take it on, with teams reliant on Slowking-G and even Ting-Lu not really able to wall it out and stop it from forcing kills. Other options such as Scarf Trick, Will-O-Wisp, and even weird options like Knock Off can let it bring a ton of value to the table right now.
- Iron Crown, B-
-> B+ (+2), -> B+ (+2)
Actually a pretty good mon! The defensive typing and solid statline are pretty useful, walls standard Slowking-G to hell and back and can pull off options from setup to AV and even to Specs. Good counterpick into a good chunk of the tier, I wouldn't be too surprised if it later falls back off a little but it's been pretty on recently.
- Ribombee, C+
-> B (+2), -> B (+2)
Webs is in a decent spot right now, both new and old sweepers able to take advantage of it pretty well as boots-spam balance subsides in the tier. Old faces like Manaphy (who I nom'd for B+, but B with Ribo is still pretty fitting), Gholdengo, and Roaring Moon are still fantastic, while powerful partners like Raging Bolt and Serperior inject new life into the playstyle, the former being a terrifying breaker into balance teams that don't fear webs and the latter discouraging Cinderace's Court Change with Contrary.
- Weezing-G, C
-> B- (+2), -> B- (+2)
Weezing-G is actually pretty decent right now - Neutralising Gas is always a good option to have, particularly in the face of a rising Garganacl and a high tier Gliscor, and with Defog this is one of the few things that can actually remove hazards safely against Gholdengo. Great typing, great bulk, even Levitate finds use by hard walling a good chunk of the tier's Ground-types and being able to dodge super effective from Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire; B- feels pretty fitting for Weezing-G right now.
- Tinkaton, D
-> B- (+3), -> B- (+3)
Tinkaton is really unique and actually has a place in the tier right now - Pickpocket can ruin Boots-reliant Pokemon like Weavile that are coincidentally walled by its base typing, while Air Balloon not only combines with Pickpocket but lets Tinkaton always take a hit from Pokemon like Roaring Moon. Great utility with Stealth Rock / Encore / Thunder Wave add to this package, I originally had this at a more conservative C+ until some discussion with the rest of the council and I'm not sure if it really is here to stay but it's good enough at what it does to justify a rise.
Falling Titans
- Pelipper, A+
-> B (-4), -> B (-4)
- Barraskewda, A+
-> B (-4), -> B (-4)
Not much to say here aside from Archaludon's ban throwing rain entirely out of the meta - Barraskewda is still the best rain sweeper and will follow Pelipper wherever it ends up, but Peli goes down all the way to B in a decision I agree with. I'd genuinely sooner use sand than rain, though it's pretty close - I actually voted in Tyranitar as rising to B for this reason, and the general consensus agreed.
- Tornadus-T, B+
-> B- (-2), -> B- (-2)
It's not bad, but I can't really see many situations where I'd place it on a team. It's an okay Knock Off user, can run Taunt and be a Regen pivot, it feels weird but solid on paper and weird but subpar in practice. This is still a Torn-T and you can always do something with it, but it feels stat crept in both speed and bulk and the lack of utility can make it feel like dead weight sometimes. Not completely terrible into Wellspring though - maybe it'll find a niche in future.
- Comfey, B-
-> C (-2), -> C (-2)
Shoutout the helloat for getting this thing ranked, but the statline is genuinely horrendous, it needs Tera to even exist as a Pokemon and it needs way too many free turns that make it really hard to justify. Only really fits on GTerrain, and GTerrain doesn't typically opt to run it right now when other Fairy-types such as the near-universal special check and immediate threat of Primarina and the fantastic Magic Bounce user, status spreader and sweeper that is Hatterene exist.
Some minor disagreements
- Deoxys-S, A
-> A (=0), -> A- (-1)
I personally think Deo-S is deserving of a solid A ranking; I understand A-, as its initial place in the meta was somewhat overhyped, but its massive set variety and number of options more than justifies its recent rise to OU proper. There is some surprise factor that helps it out, but even when you know it's the relatively low power of boots, it almost always finds a way to justify its inclusion with universal coverage and a speed tier above many Choice Scarf users and boosted sweepers. Sure, it doesn't find many opportunities to switch in, and its lack of any momentum move kinda hurts (though tbh it's never doing a ton with U-turn, just double / switch out lmao), but when paired with things that can safely bring it in and switch into its few checks it's great for balance while offense doesn't really need it to do much more than click buttons and break - this mon never deserved to fall to UU and I don't think it deserved to fall any sub-rankings either.
- Sinistcha, D
-> C (+1), -> B- (+3)
Sinistcha is definitely a whole lot better than its former D ranking with its ability to come in on a wide variety of threats along with a spammable STAB move that can burn would-be checks, with Strength Sap being really strong into a good chunk of the tier. I'm just not fully sure about it being quite that high yet - I could for sure be convinced though and I've seen some really promising replays, I would be fine with upping my vote to a C+ right now but I don't know if this is as easy to fit and as hard to take advantage of as it wants to be. Curious to see how this mon places as the metagame develops, I can imagine it earning its ranking but that remains to be seen.
- Iron Valiant, A-
-> A+ (+2), -> A (+1)
I don't think Val was ever deserving of less than A, but it feels really solid into the current meta and I'd rate it a good chunk above most of the other A rank Pokemon. There are for sure more things that check it in DLC2 such as the returning Volcarona, while other strong breakers (Kyurem, Bolt) force more usage of Gking and Clod respectively to slow down Val, but I don't see it as much less than an A+ mon; still fine with A though, feels like it sits between the sub-rankings for me.
- Blissey, C+
-> B (+2), -> B- (+1)
Maybe I just rank things differently to other voters; I see stall as a usable playstyle with at least as much merit as webs, sand and rain, and stall without Blissey cannot be described as anything other than making the game near impossible for no reason other than to say you're doing it. It's definitely terrible on other playstyles and a lower ranking does reflect that better, but that doesn't stop mons with next to no other value from being ranked higher due to defining a playstyle, so I figure that B would better reflect its place on stall.
- Hoopa-U, C+
-> B (+2), -> B- (+1)
This one is a lot more understandable, since Hoopa-U is not only far from splashable but is a pretty niche pick even on the teams that it does fit on, often being paired with Alomomola for Wish support but often being outclassed by Ursaluna. I still feel like a Hoopa-U with the right coverage and the right predicts is just as hard if not even harder to wall though, and its massive SpDef can help it find value by trading into offense along with doing its job in ripping bulkier teams apart. B- is probably more fitting, but I'm definitely a believer.
Thanks for reading! I hope this sums up my votes well and my thoughts on the current VR shifts, I'm happy with how this slate has turned out and again everyone is entitled to their own opinions, we would never get any discussion if everyone always agreed on everything and no-one ever stopped to talk through their own takes. I've mainly included Pokemon that either shifted 2 sub-rankings or I've thought them deserving of it, feel free to shoot me any questions about any of these Pokemon or any others that you feel were deserving or undeserving of their shifts and I'd be happy to talk through my thoughts on them.
Wanted to go through some of my votes, what I thought should rise and fall and what rank changes I disagree with; I echo Finch's sentiment earlier about other voters being entitled to their opinions, these are just my own personal takes on the meta and what I think about each mon. My personal votes are denoted by [Original Rank] -> [My vote] (±Change), while the actual change is written in as this -> [Final rank] (+Change) or -> [Final rank] (-Change). Hope this gives some insights as to the changes in the recent slate along with my thoughts on them!
3 votes for S-
- Slowking-G, A+ -> S- (+1), -> A+ (=0)
- Ogerpon-W, A -> S- (+2), -> A+ (+1)
- Zamazenta, A-> S- (+2), -> A+ (+1)
I voted that all 3 of these should rise to S- due to their continued dominance both on ladder and in tours; it feels like using balance without Galarian Slowking is actively throwing while it's still a solid pick on bulkier Fsight offense, Ogerpon-Wellspring is dominant to the point that the tier is starting to warp around it again, and Zamazenta is really, really strong into offense vs offense while being able to find value in other matchups. A+ is a fitting rank for all 3, but I'd personally rank them above anything else in A+ to fill out the currently empty S- tier.
Rising Stars
- Ogerpon-C, C+-> B+ (+3), -> B+ (+3)
- Ogerpon, C-> B+ (+4), -> B+ (+4)
Both non-Wellspring Ogerpon forms got a well-deserved rise in the VR update. Cornerstone finds a place as a powerful attacker able to hit a massive chunk of the tier hard with its dual STAB, while also being able to pack Low Kick and Knock Off and having the utility of Wellspring along with Sturdy. Meanwhile, Tealpon's ability to run Heavy-Duty Boots makes it a solid pick for teams where Wellspring's hazard weakness isn't appreciated, with an additional solid matchup into opposing Wellspring. Good mons and both deserving of a pretty large rise.
- Darkrai, B+-> A (+2), -> A (+2)
Even with the removal of its Hypnosis set, Darkrai has proven itself as a powerful mon that can find a lot of value past just clicking Dark Pulse. Basically only Clod can safely take it on, with teams reliant on Slowking-G and even Ting-Lu not really able to wall it out and stop it from forcing kills. Other options such as Scarf Trick, Will-O-Wisp, and even weird options like Knock Off can let it bring a ton of value to the table right now.
- Iron Crown, B--> B+ (+2), -> B+ (+2)
Actually a pretty good mon! The defensive typing and solid statline are pretty useful, walls standard Slowking-G to hell and back and can pull off options from setup to AV and even to Specs. Good counterpick into a good chunk of the tier, I wouldn't be too surprised if it later falls back off a little but it's been pretty on recently.
- Ribombee, C+-> B (+2), -> B (+2)
Webs is in a decent spot right now, both new and old sweepers able to take advantage of it pretty well as boots-spam balance subsides in the tier. Old faces like Manaphy (who I nom'd for B+, but B with Ribo is still pretty fitting), Gholdengo, and Roaring Moon are still fantastic, while powerful partners like Raging Bolt and Serperior inject new life into the playstyle, the former being a terrifying breaker into balance teams that don't fear webs and the latter discouraging Cinderace's Court Change with Contrary.
- Weezing-G, C-> B- (+2), -> B- (+2)
Weezing-G is actually pretty decent right now - Neutralising Gas is always a good option to have, particularly in the face of a rising Garganacl and a high tier Gliscor, and with Defog this is one of the few things that can actually remove hazards safely against Gholdengo. Great typing, great bulk, even Levitate finds use by hard walling a good chunk of the tier's Ground-types and being able to dodge super effective from Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire; B- feels pretty fitting for Weezing-G right now.
- Tinkaton, D-> B- (+3), -> B- (+3)
Tinkaton is really unique and actually has a place in the tier right now - Pickpocket can ruin Boots-reliant Pokemon like Weavile that are coincidentally walled by its base typing, while Air Balloon not only combines with Pickpocket but lets Tinkaton always take a hit from Pokemon like Roaring Moon. Great utility with Stealth Rock / Encore / Thunder Wave add to this package, I originally had this at a more conservative C+ until some discussion with the rest of the council and I'm not sure if it really is here to stay but it's good enough at what it does to justify a rise.
Falling Titans
- Pelipper, A+-> B (-4), -> B (-4)
- Barraskewda, A+-> B (-4), -> B (-4)
Not much to say here aside from Archaludon's ban throwing rain entirely out of the meta - Barraskewda is still the best rain sweeper and will follow Pelipper wherever it ends up, but Peli goes down all the way to B in a decision I agree with. I'd genuinely sooner use sand than rain, though it's pretty close - I actually voted in Tyranitar as rising to B for this reason, and the general consensus agreed.
- Tornadus-T, B+-> B- (-2), -> B- (-2)
It's not bad, but I can't really see many situations where I'd place it on a team. It's an okay Knock Off user, can run Taunt and be a Regen pivot, it feels weird but solid on paper and weird but subpar in practice. This is still a Torn-T and you can always do something with it, but it feels stat crept in both speed and bulk and the lack of utility can make it feel like dead weight sometimes. Not completely terrible into Wellspring though - maybe it'll find a niche in future.
- Comfey, B--> C (-2), -> C (-2)
Shoutout the helloat for getting this thing ranked, but the statline is genuinely horrendous, it needs Tera to even exist as a Pokemon and it needs way too many free turns that make it really hard to justify. Only really fits on GTerrain, and GTerrain doesn't typically opt to run it right now when other Fairy-types such as the near-universal special check and immediate threat of Primarina and the fantastic Magic Bounce user, status spreader and sweeper that is Hatterene exist.
Some minor disagreements
- Deoxys-S, A -> A (=0), -> A- (-1)
I personally think Deo-S is deserving of a solid A ranking; I understand A-, as its initial place in the meta was somewhat overhyped, but its massive set variety and number of options more than justifies its recent rise to OU proper. There is some surprise factor that helps it out, but even when you know it's the relatively low power of boots, it almost always finds a way to justify its inclusion with universal coverage and a speed tier above many Choice Scarf users and boosted sweepers. Sure, it doesn't find many opportunities to switch in, and its lack of any momentum move kinda hurts (though tbh it's never doing a ton with U-turn, just double / switch out lmao), but when paired with things that can safely bring it in and switch into its few checks it's great for balance while offense doesn't really need it to do much more than click buttons and break - this mon never deserved to fall to UU and I don't think it deserved to fall any sub-rankings either.
- Sinistcha, D-> C (+1), -> B- (+3)
Sinistcha is definitely a whole lot better than its former D ranking with its ability to come in on a wide variety of threats along with a spammable STAB move that can burn would-be checks, with Strength Sap being really strong into a good chunk of the tier. I'm just not fully sure about it being quite that high yet - I could for sure be convinced though and I've seen some really promising replays, I would be fine with upping my vote to a C+ right now but I don't know if this is as easy to fit and as hard to take advantage of as it wants to be. Curious to see how this mon places as the metagame develops, I can imagine it earning its ranking but that remains to be seen.
- Iron Valiant, A--> A+ (+2), -> A (+1)
I don't think Val was ever deserving of less than A, but it feels really solid into the current meta and I'd rate it a good chunk above most of the other A rank Pokemon. There are for sure more things that check it in DLC2 such as the returning Volcarona, while other strong breakers (Kyurem, Bolt) force more usage of Gking and Clod respectively to slow down Val, but I don't see it as much less than an A+ mon; still fine with A though, feels like it sits between the sub-rankings for me.
- Blissey, C+-> B (+2), -> B- (+1)
Maybe I just rank things differently to other voters; I see stall as a usable playstyle with at least as much merit as webs, sand and rain, and stall without Blissey cannot be described as anything other than making the game near impossible for no reason other than to say you're doing it. It's definitely terrible on other playstyles and a lower ranking does reflect that better, but that doesn't stop mons with next to no other value from being ranked higher due to defining a playstyle, so I figure that B would better reflect its place on stall.
- Hoopa-U, C+-> B (+2), -> B- (+1)
This one is a lot more understandable, since Hoopa-U is not only far from splashable but is a pretty niche pick even on the teams that it does fit on, often being paired with Alomomola for Wish support but often being outclassed by Ursaluna. I still feel like a Hoopa-U with the right coverage and the right predicts is just as hard if not even harder to wall though, and its massive SpDef can help it find value by trading into offense along with doing its job in ripping bulkier teams apart. B- is probably more fitting, but I'm definitely a believer.
Thanks for reading! I hope this sums up my votes well and my thoughts on the current VR shifts, I'm happy with how this slate has turned out and again everyone is entitled to their own opinions, we would never get any discussion if everyone always agreed on everything and no-one ever stopped to talk through their own takes. I've mainly included Pokemon that either shifted 2 sub-rankings or I've thought them deserving of it, feel free to shoot me any questions about any of these Pokemon or any others that you feel were deserving or undeserving of their shifts and I'd be happy to talk through my thoughts on them.
Last edited:
to S+I don't have to say why it should. With it's stellar typing able to wall great tusk (pretend ice spinner doesn't exist), and having defog makes it needed on every team. With evolite, it reaches bulk simliar that of Corviknight on the phy size making to wall every mon in the game. Besides its bad match into Gholdengo, Corviknight, Skamory, Walking Wake, Torkoal, Cinderace, Iron Valiant, Iron moth, Roaring Moon, Kyurem, Rimbombee, Weavile, Zamaenta, Primarina, Raging Bolt, Glowking, Volcarona, Lando, Heatran, Gouging Fire, Garg it proves to be the best mon in OU. This isn't biased in anyway due to my username btw before anyone says.
Very nice post, it's good to see what's going inside the mind of the council members. Could I get your opinion on overqwil, and why you guys deemed it wasn't worth ranking, especially when you kept kingdra in there :?
I do think that Kingdra is still the 2nd best Swift Swim user in the tier with really strong STAB options under rain and Flip Turn to pivot, so I’d keep it ranked for now. Rain in its current state is a mediocre at best strategy though, and so I think it dropping to D would be fine as it isn’t exactly a rain essential - it’s also fine as a C-ranker to me though.
As for Overqwil, I wouldn’t be too against it being ranked, but I wouldn’t really consider putting it all that high; I don’t personally love Swift Swim + setup since it feels like it takes too many turns on what needs to be a fast-paced playstyle to keep up right now, and without being given those free turns it needs to boost it’s not going to break as well as a typical Swift Swim user like Barraskewda or even Basulegion particularly with its lack of Water-type STAB.
I could see it being usable as a cool alternative to Kingambit as a Gking punish on rain teams (though that throws the Kyurem matchup out the window without some other changes to the structure), but if the rain goes down it doesn’t have many things going for it and there isn't really much in the way of usage to back it up just yet. The big thing for me is that rain has fallen out of favour massively since Archaludon was banned - it doesn’t feel like there’s much merit in adding another rain-only mon to the VR right now.
I'm happy to see Iron Crown find it's place in the meta as a blanket check to a lot of special attackers in the tier. Assault Vest Crown really allows it to stand out from the other steel types in the tier in a notable way, and not only blanket check but directly threaten a lot of special attackers in the tier thanks to having good bulk and good special attack. And unlike av heatran it doesn't necessarily have to worry as much about special lando since it is definitely better at taking these earth powers coming its way. Also sticky webs being good help it really shine as its speed is barely above the likes of Urshifu at 98 base speed.SV OU: DLC2 drops and rises
Wanted to go through some of my votes, what I thought should rise and fall and what rank changes I disagree with; I echo Finch's sentiment earlier about other voters being entitled to their opinions, these are just my own personal takes on the meta and what I think about each mon. My personal votes are denoted by [Original Rank] -> [My vote] (±Change), while the actual change is written in as this -> [Final rank] (+Change) or -> [Final rank] (-Change). Hope this gives some insights as to the changes in the recent slate along with my thoughts on them!
3 votes for S-
-> S- (+1), -> A+ (=0)
-> S- (+2), -> A+ (+1)
-> S- (+2), -> A+ (+1)
I voted that all 3 of these should rise to S- due to their continued dominance both on ladder and in tours; it feels like using balance without Galarian Slowking is actively throwing while it's still a solid pick on bulkier Fsight offense, Ogerpon-Wellspring is dominant to the point that the tier is starting to warp around it again, and Zamazenta is really, really strong into offense vs offense while being able to find value in other matchups. A+ is a fitting rank for all 3, but I'd personally rank them above anything else in A+ to fill out the currently empty S- tier.
Rising Stars
-> B+ (+3), -> B+ (+3)
-> B+ (+4), -> B+ (+4)
Both non-Wellspring Ogerpon forms got a well-deserved rise in the VR update. Cornerstone finds a place as a powerful attacker able to hit a massive chunk of the tier hard with its dual STAB, while also being able to pack Low Kick and Knock Off and having the utility of Wellspring along with Sturdy. Meanwhile, Tealpon's ability to run Heavy-Duty Boots makes it a solid pick for teams where Wellspring's hazard weakness isn't appreciated, with an additional solid matchup into opposing Wellspring. Good mons and both deserving of a pretty large rise.
-> A (+2), -> A (+2)
Even with the removal of its Hypnosis set, Darkrai has proven itself as a powerful mon that can find a lot of value past just clicking Dark Pulse. Basically only Clod can safely take it on, with teams reliant on Slowking-G and even Ting-Lu not really able to wall it out and stop it from forcing kills. Other options such as Scarf Trick, Will-O-Wisp, and even weird options like Knock Off can let it bring a ton of value to the table right now.
-> B+ (+2), -> B+ (+2)
Actually a pretty good mon! The defensive typing and solid statline are pretty useful, walls standard Slowking-G to hell and back and can pull off options from setup to AV and even to Specs. Good counterpick into a good chunk of the tier, I wouldn't be too surprised if it later falls back off a little but it's been pretty on recently.
-> B (+2), -> B (+2)
Webs is in a decent spot right now, both new and old sweepers able to take advantage of it pretty well as boots-spam balance subsides in the tier. Old faces like Manaphy (who I nom'd for B+, but B with Ribo is still pretty fitting), Gholdengo, and Roaring Moon are still fantastic, while powerful partners like Raging Bolt and Serperior inject new life into the playstyle, the former being a terrifying breaker into balance teams that don't fear webs and the latter discouraging Cinderace's Court Change with Contrary.
-> B- (+2), -> B- (+2)
Weezing-G is actually pretty decent right now - Neutralising Gas is always a good option to have, particularly in the face of a rising Garganacl and a high tier Gliscor, and with Defog this is one of the few things that can actually remove hazards safely against Gholdengo. Great typing, great bulk, even Levitate finds use by hard walling a good chunk of the tier's Ground-types and being able to dodge super effective from Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire; B- feels pretty fitting for Weezing-G right now.
-> B- (+3), -> B- (+3)
Tinkaton is really unique and actually has a place in the tier right now - Pickpocket can ruin Boots-reliant Pokemon like Weavile that are coincidentally walled by its base typing, while Air Balloon not only combines with Pickpocket but lets Tinkaton always take a hit from Pokemon like Roaring Moon. Great utility with Stealth Rock / Encore / Thunder Wave add to this package, I originally had this at a more conservative C+ until some discussion with the rest of the council and I'm not sure if it really is here to stay but it's good enough at what it does to justify a rise.
Falling Titans
-> B (-4), -> B (-4)
-> B (-4), -> B (-4)
Not much to say here aside from Archaludon's ban throwing rain entirely out of the meta - Barraskewda is still the best rain sweeper and will follow Pelipper wherever it ends up, but Peli goes down all the way to B in a decision I agree with. I'd genuinely sooner use sand than rain, though it's pretty close - I actually voted in Tyranitar as rising to B for this reason, and the general consensus agreed.
-> B- (-2), -> B- (-2)
It's not bad, but I can't really see many situations where I'd place it on a team. It's an okay Knock Off user, can run Taunt and be a Regen pivot, it feels weird but solid on paper and weird but subpar in practice. This is still a Torn-T and you can always do something with it, but it feels stat crept in both speed and bulk and the lack of utility can make it feel like dead weight sometimes. Not completely terrible into Wellspring though - maybe it'll find a niche in future.
-> C (-2), -> C (-2)
Shoutout the helloat for getting this thing ranked, but the statline is genuinely horrendous, it needs Tera to even exist as a Pokemon and it needs way too many free turns that make it really hard to justify. Only really fits on GTerrain, and GTerrain doesn't typically opt to run it right now when other Fairy-types such as the near-universal special check and immediate threat of Primarina and the fantastic Magic Bounce user, status spreader and sweeper that is Hatterene exist.
Some minor disagreements
-> A (=0), -> A- (-1)
I personally think Deo-S is deserving of a solid A ranking; I understand A-, as its initial place in the meta was somewhat overhyped, but its massive set variety and number of options more than justifies its recent rise to OU proper. There is some surprise factor that helps it out, but even when you know it's the relatively low power of boots, it almost always finds a way to justify its inclusion with universal coverage and a speed tier above many Choice Scarf users and boosted sweepers. Sure, it doesn't find many opportunities to switch in, and its lack of any momentum move kinda hurts (though tbh it's never doing a ton with U-turn, just double / switch out lmao), but when paired with things that can safely bring it in and switch into its few checks it's great for balance while offense doesn't really need it to do much more than click buttons and break - this mon never deserved to fall to UU and I don't think it deserved to fall any sub-rankings either.
-> C (+1), -> B- (+3)
Sinistcha is definitely a whole lot better than its former D ranking with its ability to come in on a wide variety of threats along with a spammable STAB move that can burn would-be checks, with Strength Sap being really strong into a good chunk of the tier. I'm just not fully sure about it being quite that high yet - I could for sure be convinced though and I've seen some really promising replays, I would be fine with upping my vote to a C+ right now but I don't know if this is as easy to fit and as hard to take advantage of as it wants to be. Curious to see how this mon places as the metagame develops, I can imagine it earning its ranking but that remains to be seen.
-> A+ (+2), -> A (+1)
I don't think Val was ever deserving of less than A, but it feels really solid into the current meta and I'd rate it a good chunk above most of the other A rank Pokemon. There are for sure more things that check it in DLC2 such as the returning Volcarona, while other strong breakers (Kyurem, Bolt) force more usage of Gking and Clod respectively to slow down Val, but I don't see it as much less than an A+ mon; still fine with A though, feels like it sits between the sub-rankings for me.
-> B (+2), -> B- (+1)
Maybe I just rank things differently to other voters; I see stall as a usable playstyle with at least as much merit as webs, sand and rain, and stall without Blissey cannot be described as anything other than making the game near impossible for no reason other than to say you're doing it. It's definitely terrible on other playstyles and a lower ranking does reflect that better, but that doesn't stop mons with next to no other value from being ranked higher due to defining a playstyle, so I figure that B would better reflect its place on stall.
-> B (+2), -> B- (+1)
This one is a lot more understandable, since Hoopa-U is not only far from splashable but is a pretty niche pick even on the teams that it does fit on, often being paired with Alomomola for Wish support but often being outclassed by Ursaluna. I still feel like a Hoopa-U with the right coverage and the right predicts is just as hard if not even harder to wall though, and its massive SpDef can help it find value by trading into offense along with doing its job in ripping bulkier teams apart. B- is probably more fitting, but I'm definitely a believer.
Thanks for reading! I hope this sums up my votes well and my thoughts on the current VR shifts, I'm happy with how this slate has turned out and again everyone is entitled to their own opinions, we would never get any discussion if everyone always agreed on everything and no-one ever stopped to talk through their own takes. I've mainly included Pokemon that either shifted 2 sub-rankings or I've thought them deserving of it, feel free to shoot me any questions about any of these Pokemon or any others that you feel were deserving or undeserving of their shifts and I'd be happy to talk through my thoughts on them.
Also I like iron Crown because it looks cool, and I'm genuinely glad it seems like it might have found a place in the metagame
To me it kind of looks like Golett line+Cobalion, IDK why.
I guess it allows Waterpon to outspeed everything? That seems extremely scary actually now that I think about it.
Last edited:
I'm really confused about the Ribombee rise. Imo, Sticky Web was good in January/early February but rn the metagame is filled HDB/Clear Body Dragapultl. Whether Sticky Web is on the field or not won't matter unless you are facing Booster Energy/Ogerpon/Deoxys. So yeah, I really don't understand that choice, if anything it should have fallen.
Last edited:
Alright, now that the new rankings have been out for a few days, I'm going to do a big list of nominations.
-> A/A+
I think iron valiant is a really splashable mon that is amazing at both sweeping and checking huge threats. Just the S ranks are threatened by its stab moves, with quite a few of the A+ mons also threatened by it or coverage moves. It is an amazing check to kingambit, quad resisting sucker punch, while forcing many other top mons to tera in order to avoid being ko'd. It's a great mon that I think is in the top echelon of the tier.
-> A-/A
Deoxys of course is a really amazing mon that has a lot of sweeping potential and supporting capabilities. While others have said that it is an A+ mon, it's lack of defensive utility holds it back in my eyes from being an A+ rank mon. However, everything else from its speed tier, wide coverage and supporting moves makes it a really top tier mon.
-> A-/B+
Meowscarada has fallen off sadly, and it doesn't have the traits of a A- mon. While it can be threatening, it has competition from weavile and darkrai as a fast offensive dark type. Weavile and darkrai are both faster and while they lack u-turn, they both can boost their offenses which makes them much more threatening. They also can pick and choose their movesets a lot easier, while meow has to stick with flower trick, knock off, u-turn and triple axel in order to not be walled by common threats. It has to choose between scarf in order to outspeed relevant threats, or boots in order to not get decimated by hazards. Not having one in multiple scenarios can make it feel like dead weight, and all these things combined make it not worthy of being a A- mon in my eyes.
-> B+/A-
Corviknight is a premier walling mon in the tier, able to check a lot of top tier mons. Mons such as gambit, tusk, waterpon, moon and rilla are checked by corv, with it being able to deal decent damage to all of them with either brave bird or body press. It can also keep up momentum for the team with u-turn, making it less passive them other walling options. Finally, it has defog, which with ghold becoming less prevelant is a bigger boon to teams that want to keep hazards off. Overall, corv is a really versatile mon that can fill a lot of roles in teams.
-> B+/A-
I honestly don't think Heatran is a bad mon in this tier, in fact I think it is pretty great. Nothing in the tier (besides opposing heatran) wants to switch into magma storm. Even something like gouging, who has recovery and can threaten out heatran, doesn't like taking chip from the trapping effect. From here, heatran can do a variety of things. Top mons such as weavile, ghold, glowking and others get destroyed by heatran and removed from the game. I've personally been liking a tera blast fairy set, you remove the steel and poison types that can threaten you after tera, and then blast everything else with damage. It's a really good mon, and is severly underrated in this meta.
-> D/C
While I understand why it fell, I think quaq is still a decent mon in the tier. While it does have its struggles, it also has very high points. First of all, it's a spinner, that in itself is something for teams to consider adding it to a team. Secondly, it's also a potentially threatening sweeper. The combo of water+fighting threatens a lot of top tier mons, such as tusk, gambit, gliscor, lando-t, moon and volc. This is great for a sweeper, and aqua step means the scarfers/booster mons that might outspeed it need to be really quick in revenge killing it, otherwise it will simply outspeed them. Resisting sucker punch and ice shard is very valuable for a sweeper. Finally, it has a wide support movepool that it can use to great effect. Roost allows it to be a solid check to many mons while keeping itself healthy, upper hand can stop some priority users like rilla and especially bolt if they are at low health, encore can ruin some setup sweepers attempts and knock off can remove items while being a decent offensive tool. Now, quaq does have its flaws, but I believe it has enough positive traits to be a C rank mon.
-> UR/D
Overqwil's main niche is that of a swift swimmer that can deal with grass types. That itself is really interesting, but it also a threatening sweeper if given only one turn. While having to setup on a teamstyle that emphasises a fast pace is annoying, that one turn can be enough to clean up a game. With stabs+water, overqwil can hit most things for super effective damage. It can even run aqua jet if it wants to, freeing up a slot on barra to run ice fang for its counters. Finally, overqwil can also support its team further if its stonewalled. Destiny bond can take down a problematic mon, which can be great for a rain team and Spikes can weaken the opposing team for a barra sweep. Overall, while restricted to one playstyle, overqwil has differentiating factors to land itself in D rank.
-> UR/D
I've said this in the past, but registeel can be absolutely devestating if supported. It's a crit me not sweeper, but it's so good at its job that it outclasses most other mons that are like it. Registeel needs ghost types removed from the game, and preferably fighting resists weakened, in order to do its thing. From there, it can switch into common mons such as glowking, hatterene and rilla, and start boosting. It can boost either defensive side with either iron defense or amnesia, and once its gotten a few boosts up, it is basically immortal. It can then use tera fighting and body press to ko anything on the opposing team, even 4x resists such as glowking are heavily damaged by it. It can use rest to recover its health, and due to taking so little damage, the two rest turns are not really a problem. In fact, they are very good for it as it allows it to pp stall stuff like corv that may try to wall it. Registeel is a bit of a gimmick, it has not a lot of defensive utility, requires support to work and has to tera, but if the stars align, it can decimate teams like nothing else.
-> A/A+I think iron valiant is a really splashable mon that is amazing at both sweeping and checking huge threats. Just the S ranks are threatened by its stab moves, with quite a few of the A+ mons also threatened by it or coverage moves. It is an amazing check to kingambit, quad resisting sucker punch, while forcing many other top mons to tera in order to avoid being ko'd. It's a great mon that I think is in the top echelon of the tier.
-> A-/ADeoxys of course is a really amazing mon that has a lot of sweeping potential and supporting capabilities. While others have said that it is an A+ mon, it's lack of defensive utility holds it back in my eyes from being an A+ rank mon. However, everything else from its speed tier, wide coverage and supporting moves makes it a really top tier mon.
-> A-/B+Meowscarada has fallen off sadly, and it doesn't have the traits of a A- mon. While it can be threatening, it has competition from weavile and darkrai as a fast offensive dark type. Weavile and darkrai are both faster and while they lack u-turn, they both can boost their offenses which makes them much more threatening. They also can pick and choose their movesets a lot easier, while meow has to stick with flower trick, knock off, u-turn and triple axel in order to not be walled by common threats. It has to choose between scarf in order to outspeed relevant threats, or boots in order to not get decimated by hazards. Not having one in multiple scenarios can make it feel like dead weight, and all these things combined make it not worthy of being a A- mon in my eyes.
-> B+/A-Corviknight is a premier walling mon in the tier, able to check a lot of top tier mons. Mons such as gambit, tusk, waterpon, moon and rilla are checked by corv, with it being able to deal decent damage to all of them with either brave bird or body press. It can also keep up momentum for the team with u-turn, making it less passive them other walling options. Finally, it has defog, which with ghold becoming less prevelant is a bigger boon to teams that want to keep hazards off. Overall, corv is a really versatile mon that can fill a lot of roles in teams.
-> B+/A-I honestly don't think Heatran is a bad mon in this tier, in fact I think it is pretty great. Nothing in the tier (besides opposing heatran) wants to switch into magma storm. Even something like gouging, who has recovery and can threaten out heatran, doesn't like taking chip from the trapping effect. From here, heatran can do a variety of things. Top mons such as weavile, ghold, glowking and others get destroyed by heatran and removed from the game. I've personally been liking a tera blast fairy set, you remove the steel and poison types that can threaten you after tera, and then blast everything else with damage. It's a really good mon, and is severly underrated in this meta.
-> D/CWhile I understand why it fell, I think quaq is still a decent mon in the tier. While it does have its struggles, it also has very high points. First of all, it's a spinner, that in itself is something for teams to consider adding it to a team. Secondly, it's also a potentially threatening sweeper. The combo of water+fighting threatens a lot of top tier mons, such as tusk, gambit, gliscor, lando-t, moon and volc. This is great for a sweeper, and aqua step means the scarfers/booster mons that might outspeed it need to be really quick in revenge killing it, otherwise it will simply outspeed them. Resisting sucker punch and ice shard is very valuable for a sweeper. Finally, it has a wide support movepool that it can use to great effect. Roost allows it to be a solid check to many mons while keeping itself healthy, upper hand can stop some priority users like rilla and especially bolt if they are at low health, encore can ruin some setup sweepers attempts and knock off can remove items while being a decent offensive tool. Now, quaq does have its flaws, but I believe it has enough positive traits to be a C rank mon.
-> UR/DOverqwil's main niche is that of a swift swimmer that can deal with grass types. That itself is really interesting, but it also a threatening sweeper if given only one turn. While having to setup on a teamstyle that emphasises a fast pace is annoying, that one turn can be enough to clean up a game. With stabs+water, overqwil can hit most things for super effective damage. It can even run aqua jet if it wants to, freeing up a slot on barra to run ice fang for its counters. Finally, overqwil can also support its team further if its stonewalled. Destiny bond can take down a problematic mon, which can be great for a rain team and Spikes can weaken the opposing team for a barra sweep. Overall, while restricted to one playstyle, overqwil has differentiating factors to land itself in D rank.
-> UR/DI've said this in the past, but registeel can be absolutely devestating if supported. It's a crit me not sweeper, but it's so good at its job that it outclasses most other mons that are like it. Registeel needs ghost types removed from the game, and preferably fighting resists weakened, in order to do its thing. From there, it can switch into common mons such as glowking, hatterene and rilla, and start boosting. It can boost either defensive side with either iron defense or amnesia, and once its gotten a few boosts up, it is basically immortal. It can then use tera fighting and body press to ko anything on the opposing team, even 4x resists such as glowking are heavily damaged by it. It can use rest to recover its health, and due to taking so little damage, the two rest turns are not really a problem. In fact, they are very good for it as it allows it to pp stall stuff like corv that may try to wall it. Registeel is a bit of a gimmick, it has not a lot of defensive utility, requires support to work and has to tera, but if the stars align, it can decimate teams like nothing else.
I've been playing a lot on the ladder this past weeks and I think that I have a nomination to make
--> UR/C (Maybe B-?)
I don't know, I feel like this mon is quite better than what people think. You can safely enter on gholdengo except if it Tricks (which you can usually see coming), Darkrai, Deoxys-Speed, Slowking-Galar, Hatterene, specs Pult...You can also pivot like 3 or 4 times aganist Primarina for example.
Poison/Dark is a great typing rn in my opinion. You're weak to ground yeah, but you 4x resist Grass (good aganist Rilla/Ogerpon grass) , resist Ghost (good vs Pult and Ghold as I mentioned before) , and Psychic immunity + not weak to Fighting makes you face well even stuff like Psyspam with Iron Crown. You're also a Dark-type that's not weak to Fairy, so you can switch into Clefable a lot of times for example. Also, as a Poison-Type it soaks up Glimmora's toxic spikes (who wins A-Muk on a 1v1 btw, but if you pivot it you can kinda wear it down with Drain Punch. It's not that bad of a matchup).
Poison Touch + Poison Fang is really good. Like it's really easy to make progress with it. Nothing wants to switch into it except Gliscor (If its Toxic Orb is not activated 70% of the time is done for), Ghold/Slowking-Galar which are slammed with Knock Off and Kingambit which can be chipped a lot using Drain Punch.
Because, yeah it has Knock Off, which is *always* good, but the thing is 30% of the time you also apply poison which is really good aganist stuff like Lando, Ting-Lu, Tusk, Alomomola, Dondozo...That usually would change "safely" in this move.
Most of the time (except if they tera-ground, which makes Volc really weak aganist a lot of stuff) Poison Fang makes you win Volc 1v1. You can also 1v1 a lot IValiant sets, Raging Bolt... After you poison them, you can take a page out of Gliscor book and start protecting.
Replay of A-Muk handling Volcarona
It makes a lot of progress easily with just Fang+Knock, but the fact you can surprise Dark-Types that wanna switch in with Drain Punch is really good. It's a very resilient mon. Darkrai, Deoxys-Speed, Glowking, Hatterene, Serperior, even sometimes stuff like Heatran really struggles aganist.
A-Muk's has problems of course. Horrible matchup aganist Gouging Fire tera-poison so you need to support him on that, frail on the physical side (takes a lot of damage from neutral hits like DDarts from Pult, Aqua Cutter from H-Samurott or Iron head from kingambit). Kyurem is also a bit complicated because while you're ok aganist boot sets and can do some stuff pivoting agansit specs, DD loaded dice slams you. And, apart from knocking it before the orb activates, Gliscor sits on you all the time it wants.
But anyways, I just wanted to show my love to the glimmy fella
--> UR/C (Maybe B-?)I don't know, I feel like this mon is quite better than what people think. You can safely enter on gholdengo except if it Tricks (which you can usually see coming), Darkrai, Deoxys-Speed, Slowking-Galar, Hatterene, specs Pult...You can also pivot like 3 or 4 times aganist Primarina for example.
Poison/Dark is a great typing rn in my opinion. You're weak to ground yeah, but you 4x resist Grass (good aganist Rilla/Ogerpon grass) , resist Ghost (good vs Pult and Ghold as I mentioned before) , and Psychic immunity + not weak to Fighting makes you face well even stuff like Psyspam with Iron Crown. You're also a Dark-type that's not weak to Fairy, so you can switch into Clefable a lot of times for example. Also, as a Poison-Type it soaks up Glimmora's toxic spikes (who wins A-Muk on a 1v1 btw, but if you pivot it you can kinda wear it down with Drain Punch. It's not that bad of a matchup).
Poison Touch + Poison Fang is really good. Like it's really easy to make progress with it. Nothing wants to switch into it except Gliscor (If its Toxic Orb is not activated 70% of the time is done for), Ghold/Slowking-Galar which are slammed with Knock Off and Kingambit which can be chipped a lot using Drain Punch.
Because, yeah it has Knock Off, which is *always* good, but the thing is 30% of the time you also apply poison which is really good aganist stuff like Lando, Ting-Lu, Tusk, Alomomola, Dondozo...That usually would change "safely" in this move.
Most of the time (except if they tera-ground, which makes Volc really weak aganist a lot of stuff) Poison Fang makes you win Volc 1v1. You can also 1v1 a lot IValiant sets, Raging Bolt... After you poison them, you can take a page out of Gliscor book and start protecting.
Replay of A-Muk handling Volcarona
It makes a lot of progress easily with just Fang+Knock, but the fact you can surprise Dark-Types that wanna switch in with Drain Punch is really good. It's a very resilient mon. Darkrai, Deoxys-Speed, Glowking, Hatterene, Serperior, even sometimes stuff like Heatran really struggles aganist.
A-Muk's has problems of course. Horrible matchup aganist Gouging Fire tera-poison so you need to support him on that, frail on the physical side (takes a lot of damage from neutral hits like DDarts from Pult, Aqua Cutter from H-Samurott or Iron head from kingambit). Kyurem is also a bit complicated because while you're ok aganist boot sets and can do some stuff pivoting agansit specs, DD loaded dice slams you. And, apart from knocking it before the orb activates, Gliscor sits on you all the time it wants.
But anyways, I just wanted to show my love to the glimmy fella
While I do love this set and nomination, I would say this sounds more like a D rank or C rank mon, from what you've provided. B- is way too high, that's for stuff that has a solid place in the tier, but has flaws that are obvious. A-Muk sounds like it has some good matchups and if supported right can do well, but has major struggles. It's more along the lines of suicune or h-arcanine. Good mons, but can't always cut it in OU, but have enough of a niche to mention in the viability rankings.I've been playing a lot on the ladder this past weeks and I think that I have a nomination to make
I don't know, I feel like this mon is quite better than what people think. You can safely enter on gholdengo except if it Tricks (which you can usually see coming), Darkrai, Deoxys-Speed, Slowking-Galar, Hatterene, specs Pult...You can also pivot like 3 or 4 times aganist Primarina for example.
Poison/Dark is a great typing rn in my opinion. You're weak to ground yeah, but you 4x resist Grass (good aganist Rilla/Ogerpon grass) , resist Ghost (good vs Pult and Ghold as I mentioned before) , and Psychic immunity + not weak to Fighting makes you face well even stuff like Psyspam with Iron Crown. You're also a Dark-type that's not weak to Fairy, so you can switch into Clefable a lot of times for example. Also, as a Poison-Type it soaks up Glimmora's toxic spikes (who wins A-Muk on a 1v1 btw, but if you pivot it you can kinda wear it down with Drain Punch. It's not that bad of a matchup).
Poison Touch + Poison Fang is really good. Like it's really easy to make progress with it. Nothing wants to switch into it except Gliscor (If its Toxic Orb is not activated 70% of the time is done for), Ghold/Slowking-Galar which are slammed with Knock Off and Kingambit which can be chipped a lot using Drain Punch.
Because, yeah it has Knock Off, which is *always* good, but the thing is 30% of the time you also apply poison which is really good aganist stuff like Lando, Ting-Lu, Tusk, Alomomola, Dondozo...That usually would change "safely" in this move.
Most of the time (except if they tera-ground, which makes Volc really weak aganist a lot of stuff) Poison Fang makes you win Volc 1v1. You can also 1v1 a lot IValiant sets, Raging Bolt... After you poison them, you can take a page out of Gliscor book and start protecting.
Replay of A-Muk handling Volcarona
It makes a lot of progress easily with just Fang+Knock, but the fact you can surprise Dark-Types that wanna switch in with Drain Punch is really good. It's a very resilient mon. Darkrai, Deoxys-Speed, Glowking, Hatterene, Serperior, even sometimes stuff like Heatran really struggles aganist.
A-Muk's has problems of course. Horrible matchup aganist Gouging Fire tera-poison so you need to support him on that, frail on the physical side (takes a lot of damage from neutral hits like DDarts from Pult, Aqua Cutter from H-Samurott or Iron head from kingambit). Kyurem is also a bit complicated because while you're ok aganist boot sets and can do some stuff pivoting agansit specs, DD loaded dice slams you. And, apart from knocking it before the orb activates, Gliscor sits on you all the time it wants.
But anyways, I just wanted to show my love to the glimmy fella
I hope this doesn't stop you from playing the tier though, all the power to you if it's working for you (I'm using meloetta at the moment, so it would be hypocritical for me to stop you from using a-muk).
Thank you!!:) Maybe I was hyping a bit too much, yeah... I think I'm a bit too biased ^^"
Also I love meloetta, it's my favourite mythical Pokémon:D. Wait, are you using it on a rain team perhaps? I think that the team also has Zapdos and Iron Treads