Resource SV BSS Viability Rankings (Regulation F)

[Photon]

I think Iron Hands should be A, at least. It's shockingly bulky, a clear AV set wasn't even tickled by +1 252 SpA Modest Iron Moth's Psychic after tera to neutral, and non-AV unterad still lives(w/ proper EVs, which aren't at all a strain!) Stat wise it's plainly better than a lot of things(Hippowdon strongly comes to mind.) Very wide movepool, base typing seems ok. It hits A+ and S mons all for SE damage if it has the right move. I can't see any problem w/ it, other than personally it's kinda too strong so I'd rather use something else lol.

I'm a little torn on this one. On one hand, its been popping up everywhere and has really carved out a niche for itself. On the other hand, its set diversity isn't quite the same caliber as the others in straight A Rank. It is still overhwhelmingly Assault Vest and can be easy to predict at team preview. The bulky Substitute set has been around for a whole season and has a little representation, but all in all its still a little too one-dimensional in my opinion.

I'd argue its in the same boat as Volcarona, to draw a comparison. The Bulkarona set is a straight menace and can devastate teams, but smart players know how to single it out at team preview and come well prepared to deal with it. Iron Hands and Volcarona are both rock-solid Pokemon but with only a single meta-defining set, so they are not quite as splashable as the ranks above them. With that said, I would argue A- is still most appropriate for Iron Hands (and Volcarona .)

 

[Aqua Jet]

C+ -> B-: It's no secret that I love this thing, as I've been spamming it in BSSWC every single week. I think it deserves a rise and is also criminally underrated because not only is it able to switch into and beat both Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao (something not many Pokemon can do), but it can also act as a late-game cleaner with its access to Trailblaze. For proof, look no further than any of my BSSWC replays, as in (almost) every game I brought it, it put in work. Overall I feel it's a solid choice in the current metagame and can act as a (sort of) glue Pokemon. Obviously, the lack of recovery hurts it which is why I wouldn't put it higher, but it acts as a 1-to-2-time answer to a lot of metagame threats, which, in a fast-paced metagame such as Battle Stadium Singles, is often enough to turn the tide in the Tauros-F users favor.

I'm really stuck here, anyone else got some opinions on Tyranitar?

In my opinion, Tyrantiar is fine where it is. I wouldn't say that it relies on Sand as a playstyle to be viable because A) Sand is ass and B) it doesn't - a good builder should be more than capable of building with Tyranitar without using (the few) other Sand abusers. That said, I think that its worse then Sun and Rain as playstyles (represented by Torkoal and Pelipper respectively), and wouldn't put it higher than them. Sand chip is hilarious into Dragonite though.

--

I also agree with Chien-Pao to S-

 

[Omastar68]

I'm a little torn on this one. On one hand, its been popping up everywhere and has really carved out a niche for itself. On the other hand, its set diversity isn't quite the same caliber as the others in straight A Rank. It is still overhwhelmingly Assault Vest and can be easy to predict at team preview. The bulky Substitute set has been around for a whole season and has a little representation, but all in all its still a little too one-dimensional in my opinion.

I'd argue its in the same boat as Volcarona, to draw a comparison. The Bulkarona set is a straight menace and can devastate teams, but smart players know how to single it out at team preview and come well prepared to deal with it. Iron Hands and Volcarona are both rock-solid Pokemon but with only a single meta-defining set, so they are not quite as splashable as the ranks above them. With that said, I would argue A- is still most appropriate for Iron Hands (and Volcarona .)

Oh. Actually that does sound fine. Yeah it is kinda predictable. I feel like Hippo in the past hasn't climbed the ranks too much more than A- for the same reason...so I withdraw this. But I will argue if someone says for it to go lower. Though really who would...

EDIT: By the same logic, suggesting Corviknight drop to, at most, A- too. It also doesn't do much different stuff, and I don't feel it's seen on the level of most other A things, esp. Bax and Mimi. I do like the stats a lot(it actually has a really good base HP, checked cause I figures it'd be more like old Skarmory.) But at that level good stats aren't rare at all so it just seems very stuck doing the same things.

 

[Photon]

Was it really only a week ago that I made nominations? Oh well, I've got more:

Toxapex: Drop from A- to B+
Clodsire: Rise from B+ to A-

Talking about these two together because they're kind of switching places.

Toxapex usage has plummeted, at least compared to the sort of reputation this thing generally holds. I know this thing has a lot going for it, but it ultimately boils down to one simple thing: losing Scald has devastated its viability. Scald was its glue move, turning the joke back on Taunt users and checks trying to switch into it. Every turn was a potential chance for it to ruin your cycle and make the rest of the match an exercise in misery. Without Scald, Toxapex lacks that critical ingredient that transformed it from being just another really hard-to-kill wall to a powerhouse of insanity-inducing survivability. Now, its just as vulnerable to Taunt as many other tanks, and it is nigh powerless against the many powerful Steel-types running around in the meta. It had a brief stint as a Wo-Chien partner, but Wo-Chien can function just fine without it. Now, I think it would be crazy to drop it much lower than B, but as long as it lacks a suitable Scald-like, its golden days are likely well behind it.

Clodsire, on the other hand, is experiencing some renewed popularity. For one, it can actually do something offensively to things like Flutter Mane, Gholdengo and Iron Moth with Earthquake. Turns out that being a special wall (good ones tend to be rarer than good physical walls from what I've noticed) with good typing, physical coverage and consistent recovery is a premium combination of attributes to have. Then let's combine that with two great abilities, Yawn + hazards support and Tera making it an absolute pain to deal with. While I think it can still suffer from a lot of the problems that passive mons like Toxapex has, its fits into this meta much more smoothly as the "unkillable blob" teammate.

Slither Wing: Drop from B+ to B-

Sorry Pearl, but I get the feeling you'd probably agree here. On paper, Fighting / Bug should be really strong in a Ruin-dominant meta. Unfortunately, none of the top 3 (Flutter Mane, Gholdengo and Dragonite) are Ruins, and they all check Slither Wing's STAB combo just by existing. This means building a team's resources around Slither Wing so that it might work. I'd like to think that this guy has something to contribute, but until someone unlocks those cosmic secrets Slither Wing just isn't doing much right now.

Bellibolt: Drop from B+ to B

I still don't know much about this guy, but that's kinda the point. Where is it? I don't think I've ever faced one in the last two months. Its usage has fallen out of the top 50. I'm not the most informed about this mon, but I feel like its obvious that it isn't a B+ mon anymore. I'll be conservative and drop it to B for now.

Brute Bonnet: Drop from B+ to B-

I may not know much about this mon, but I can talk about it being in a very crowded pool of excellent Grass-types. Breloom, Meowscarada and Wo-Chien are all phenomenal right now. Amoonguss is also solid, and Arboliva has been on the rise. What does Brute Bonnet do that makes it worth using over any of these? The answer seems to be "not much" if its #70 usage is anything to go by. In fact, I would guess its the other Grass-type competition that is devastating its setup niche since there are so many strong Spore immunities running around right now. Simply put, its been cannabalized by its competition and is barely hanging on right now. A big drop is warranted.

Arboliva: Rise from B- to B

I will admit that wanting to move Arboliva out of the same tier as Brute Bonnet was a motivation for this--which I think is fair, because they are absolutely not in the same league--but what pushed me over the edge on this one was the rise of Tera Electric. Simply put, Tera Electric dunks on Gholdengo in a way that few Pokemon can, which you can see me explain in a recent dex update for Arboliva. I think we are going to need to see more results before it can go much higher, but its been making some waves for awhile now so I have some confidence in putting this nomination up.

Gardevoir: Rise from B- to B

This is the true sleeper of the current regulation if you ask me. Its already got some great set diversity and has the tools to trade into some of the meta's biggest hitters. Its not dominating in the same way the top 10 are, but its stellar balance of stats, STAB types and support moves make it a very unpredictable and capable trader into a large list of threats. As I've said for other Pokemon before: if you're laser focused on what you want it to do and where you want to use it, its super capable of making big value plays. That being said, I would not at all be surprised to see this thing make its way up to the A tier in the near future, because its matchup spread is truly impressive.

Floatzel: Rise from UR to C

While I don't consider this a particularly egregious omission, I do think it deserves a spot in the VR. Rain is at least acknowledged as a usable mode, even if its more of a low- or mid-ladder strategy these days. Floatzel is basically "Palafin at home," to use an expression that's popular among BSS vets. It trades needing Rain to operate well for not having to switch in and out to be at maximum power. Plus, having the fastest Wave Crash in the game is nothing to sneeze at. Its got a nice niche for itself as an alternative Rain abuser to Palafin, and it is the #3 teammate for Pelipper (below Palafin and Gholdengo.) If Pelipper gets representation, I think its most prominent Rain abusers should as well, so I definitely think Floatzel should sneak into the bottom of the VR list.

 

[Omastar68]

I would especially support rises for Gholdengo(based off usage for one, it's higher than Flutter atm!,) and Arboliva(this can be a real nuisance w/ a variety of sets, I saw Strength Sap/ Sub/ Leech/ fire Tera Blast Harvest sitrus. Then there's Mirror Coat, and the damage in terrain.)

Oh, about Bellibolt, happy for you you don't see it. It can be a nightmare w/ Electropomorhosis Parabolic Charge. Then there's Acid Spray. That makes some sets good vs. Mirror Coat users, like my Alomomola for ex., who'd otherwise tank an SE hit and KO back. I'm not against dropping it, it does seem rare thankfully, but that's what it does. I also agree to drop it only a little.

I don't see any Brute Bonnets anymore, I agree. Too many grasses, moreover too many grass/darks specifically. Everything else looks fine to me too.

I'm going to also be contrary and suggest dropping Orthworm to B-, even though I like it and have used it. It seems fine, maybe better actually, but usage says a ton. I just don't see it. There's still match-ups like Iron Bundle, Gholdengo, and Chi-yu, though it also seems good vs. some high stuff too.

 

[Psynergy]

I'm so used to this thread staying quiet that the sudden nom activity is motivating a shift now before the list gets even bigger. For the most part, most of Photon's noms were pretty agreeable or at the very least no-brainer shifts that would be better to update sooner rather than later, but many of the other noms were found to be fairly agreeable shifts as well. The Slither Wing fans are not the only ones hurting though, as a Magnezone and Bellibolt enjoyer this shift pains me as well but it must be done.

Gholdengo had some resistance to being moved up but generally speaking there was a consensus that the current S tiers is not fully representative of the current top meta, and Gholdengo is something that should be a part of it. There was some buzz regarding whether Flutter Mane is S or S-, but regardless you will notice that the S ranks now consist of Dragonite, Flutter Mane, and Ting-Lu, with Gholdengo and Chien-Pao occupying S- rank and Iron Bundle dropping to A+. As always, let me know if anything looks wrong but otherwise the below is the summary of changes for the moment.

Drops
Iron Bundle: S- to A+
Iron Valiant: A to B+
Toxapex: A- to B+
Magnezone: A- to B+
Slither Wing: B+ to B-
Bellibolt: B+ to B
Brute Bonnet: B+ to B-

Rises
Ting-Lu: S- to S
Chien-Pao: A+ to S-
Gholdengo: A+ to S-
Iron Hands: A- to A
Breloom: A- to A
Clodsire: B+ to A-
Arboliva: B- to B
Gardevoir: B- to B
Cloyster: B- to B
Tauros-Fire: C+ to B-

New Additions
Floatzel: C

 

[Photon]

I can definitely see an argument for moving Flutter Mane to S-, and that mainly has to do with the bulk profiles of Dragonite and Ting-Lu making them immensely splashable. Flutter Mane still remains a key offensive threat, but the meta continues to warp around and push back against it in a way that hasn't happened for the other two. Wouldn't dare drop it out of S entirely, but the higher prevalence of counter play against it makes S- a decent consideration.

Iron Bundle dropping to A+ makes sense too. Great sweeper, excellent support options, but its even more exploitable than Flutter Mane is and suffers from serious 4MSS. Plus, its basically shoehorned 100% of the time into running max / max on SpA / Spe so it doesn't get completely invalidated the moment Flutter Mane hits the field. So yes, I think this is pretty agreeable as well.

Personally though, I'm surprised to hear there was disagreement on Gholdengo moving up. I'd be interested to hear what the arguments against it were.

Brute Bonnet: B+ to B-

You currently have Brute Bonnet in B. And its fixed.

 

[DerpySuX]

Personally though, I'm surprised to hear there was disagreement on Gholdengo moving up. I'd be interested to hear what the arguments against it were.

I was one of the people who was hesitant to put gholdengo in S tier proper and my main reason for that is honestly it’s rather sub-par speed tier and the fact that it’s typing isn’t always the best for the current metagame. Yes, terastallization helps with that and yes Good as Gold is an incredible ability, but I really do think the Speed and typing hold it back from being on par with the other S tier picks. Dragonite and Ting-Lu make up for their speed with obscene power and bulk respectively, and Dragonite even has Dragon Dance to fix its speed issues should you want.

To be perfectly clear I’m not saying that I don't think Gholdengo is one of the best mons in Regulation C, it absolutely is. Personally, I’m just very selective when it comes to what I see as “top tier.”

 

[DerpySuX]

the BSS page for the dex has been updated to reflect these changes now, I’m pretty sure I got everything in alphabetical order but feel free to let me know if I missed something.

 

[Omastar68]

This looks really good to me now. I looked and tinkaton is a whopping 30 places ahead of scream tail, so I guess nvm about equalizing those two. Pult I checked too, thought it should drop. Usage for it is still decent though. I can only say I agree with the Flutter Mane suggestion. It has horrible base HP and def, meanwhile DNite has no terrible stat. Even with that stat deficiency it is far from bad, but it does give an easier way past it than Dnite, who is really in a class of its own sorta. Except maybe ting lu what was added, that thing is fat. Flutter has quite a few options, but not nearly as many as dnite, too. Ofc, less than a- will probably never work for it.

Edit, meant S- lol. A- Flutter would be silly. Oh, and I'd unlist Slowking. Use Abomasnow for snow imo. I'm ok with them being gone I think, but what happened to flamigo and Lokix who were here before?

2nd edit to not double post. I REALLY want chi yu to fall on here. B+ from my moderate experience seems high, but I'll start there. And if I can't get that fingers crossed for A-. This Mon seems to suck for me with it's bulk(the priority weaknesses are great fun, look will 2hko at worst with it's almost guaranteed sash, unless resistant/immune tera,) predictability, and susceptibility to their Tera(I guess that's everyone, but even so you can't get away with using a resisted attack by surprise.) Iron moth lacks some power, though it's the highest natural SpA at this time, but it gets hugely useful spe, versatility with items and more with moves, and it has something for HP, unlike chi yu who puts those base stat points in def instead of HP. I find this a problem. There are a number of high ranking fires, chi yu doesn't impress me compared. Maybe I just didn't use it enough yet, but tbh from what it did do I can't stand too. The point of using a common Mon is to win, not be boring AND lose a ton.

Chi yu is bad into dnite, that should be enough right there to consider a drop, dnite is overwhelmingly common for a reason. Chi yu could be dangerous with wisp to dnite, but this use can conflict with the point of the Mon(if there is one besides the storyline,) and there are better ways to burn it. Ting lu seems really mean to this, again you can probably just burn it. It should be good vs gholdengo, but I've seen Tera water. I guess as long as it's not Tera water blast or focus blast it's good with it. I also use a strong answer to chi yu, so I might beat it better than some. But this is from me losing bad with it. If someone has very good results with it then I'll back down, but I just don't see it as strong. I've had much more success w/ a mon not even on here. I'm holding off on nomming that though.

 

[Photon]

Just a few for today:

Mimikyu: Rise from A to A+

Mimikyu is just doing Mimikyu things, but I guess its another mon that took a while to find its groove in this strange new world. It certainly isn't slacking anymore though. Life Orb Swords Dance is as good as ever, Curse sets cause havoc on bulkier teams and even Trick Scarf is back in action. Its making messes per usual and causing serious team preview mindgames because you can't be quite sure what its packing. Easy nomination to A+ to reflect its return to glory.

Rotom-Wash: Rise from A to A+

I think Rotom-Wash has really benefited from recent meta trends. It too can be a pain to figure out between its bulky pivot sets and choice Trick sets, but beyond that its typing is super good into a large part of the top 10, and Terastallization elevates it even farther since it has the coveted Levitate to pair it with. I think usage data also supports a rise, as over Season 6 it pushed its way into top 10 usage itself. Very splashable flex mon that is an easy fit on a lot of teams.

Gyarados: Rise from C+ to B-

Gyarados has had a much more muted resurgence, but nonetheless it has carved out a new Rocky Helmet niche that is seeing a decent amount of action with even a little at higher ladder. It'll be interesting to see how it fares because one of the big things it checks in Palafin has been slowly losing ground over the last couple of seasons, but it has a focused, well thought-out role that it plays on the teams it appears on. Its increased usage combined with specific (albeit niche) applications at higher play is what elevates it into the next tier for me.

 

[Omastar68]

Well nothing ventured nothing gained...gonna nom Lurantis to C. It's at least got way more of a niche than iron jugulis imo.

Contrary Leaf Storm, w/ possible grass tera, can tear things apart. Ghlodengo is ohkod at +4 w/ Miracle Seed or tera(you live a Make it Rain too.) The main thing though is 2hkoing Ting-Lu, while boosting. Contrary also has use vs. Mystical Fire from Flutter Mane(and Gardevoir fwiw.) These have some chance to play around w/ Moonblast, but that has a healthy 30% chance to 'boost' too. 70/90/90 bulk is still pretty good, you can take out Bundle for instance. Then there's defensive stat droppers, Lurantis is a full counter to Bellibolt(idk about others but these used to be tough for me,) and Lumina Crash Espathra(iirc the main set.) Thanks to spore immunity I was switching in on Brute Bonnet, it predicted the 2nd time, but Crunch raised def lol! Another mon Lurantis takes full advantage of is Arboliva, who sets you up to deal unreal damage, despite meek-ish 80 SpA.. The leech seed immunity is relevant vs. Wo-Chien and Meowscarada too, who are set up fodder more or less(I'd say more.) Lurantis unfortunately isn't the best into Dnite, but it still takes +1 tera e-speed, w/ a chance for +2 w/ a basic 252 HP/0 Def spread. Terad Dnite, bar maybe flying and kinda even that cause it's not 4x resistant, takes high damage from Leaf Storm. That move is just so strong, even Corviknight isn't all that safe unless it's SpD or, more likely, Brave Bird. Lurantis is sadly slow, but doesn't take many EVs to outspeed 4 Spe 50s, and is actually a trick absorber cause you often just want to click Leaf Storm.

I'm supposed to say bad things too, or else why just C, and yes there are those sadly. Iron Moth, Skeledirge, and Clodsire top the list for problems, imo though there's stuff like Cloyster, Chien-pao, Bax, and Chi-yu that take advantage of the regular(and likely even tera, cause let's face it you'd want the damage) typing. Move options are slim, I use Giga Drain/ Pollen Puff/ Synthesis for the 3 remaining moves. You don't take very much Foul Play damage even w/ the high base Atk, if 0IV -nature, but you are wasting that attack because this is ofc meant to go special(this means the buff from intimidate is wasted, and just raises foul play damage.) Low pp on Leaf Storm and 90 acc can be unfortunate too. So w/ the typing you need support, but I find that worth it. I might try it under screens, or what have you.

I'm bored so I'll just go back to good things. Lurantis is also a terror vs. Garganacl. I used to use SpA booster tera grass Iron MOth, this is another way to beat it w/o a Cloak user on the team. Breloom is set up fodder, not dealing enough w/ Mach Punch. I'm not 100% sure on the Annihilape match up cause I got a weird set against me the time it cae up I remember, but you can take a +1 100 BP Rage Fist(w/ the standard 0 atk it takes +2 150 BP to ohko iirc.) Dondozo is forced to tera. Though a grass tera and Unaware stops Lurantis mostly(there's still pollen Puff chip,) it gets their tera used up and grass has much more weaknesses than water, so a teammate can take advantage if you have one left. I definitely remember taking down Iron Hands w/ this. Like most neutrals it takes huge damage from Leaf Storm. Mimikyu is livable if not LO, w/ the attack on the disguise boosting(so it can't switch in.) I could go on, but that should be enough to get discussion on it(unless it's a shoe-in, which'd be great.) Really I think usage stats not having this is strange, really overlooked mon. You have the issues, but if you can convince me Slowking, Donphan, or Cyclizar are better you're very persuasive. I'm also interested if there's anyone who's used this, and if they went Lefties grass tera or what.

Also, it may be worth noting that Lurantis can not only beat Ting-Lu very well(unless it's like Weakness Policy Payback or something lol,) it can invalidate what it does completely w/ a different moveset. Ingrain to block Whirlwind and get a 2nd leftovers, or Defog to remove the Stealth Rock. 2hkoing Full HP/SpD AV sets w/ a special move and safety seems really great to me. Like even Iron Moth would need Tera, and Chi-yu w/ modest tera fire specs still isn't ohkoing, and takes an ohko. Palafin might be better for it, the only thing I can think of, but it needs to tera or use a certain item, and that still won't get max Def w/o both, whereas Lurantis doesn't care what kind of, reasonable, Ting-lu set it is.

Edit: lol on the chi yu, it's #6 somehow. I don't like it but more open to other opinions on it. No biggie if it stays just please never raise it despite usage.

 

[Pearl]

Well nothing ventured nothing gained...gonna nom Lurantis to C. It's at least got way more of a niche than iron jugulis imo.

Contrary Leaf Storm, w/ possible grass tera, can tear things apart. Ghlodengo is ohkod at +4 w/ Miracle Seed or tera(you live a Make it Rain too.) The main thing though is 2hkoing Ting-Lu, while boosting. Contrary also has use vs. Mystical Fire from Flutter Mane(and Gardevoir fwiw.) These have some chance to play around w/ Moonblast, but that has a healthy 30% chance to 'boost' too. 70/90/90 bulk is still pretty good, you can take out Bundle for instance. Then there's defensive stat droppers, Lurantis is a full counter to Bellibolt(idk about others but these used to be tough for me,) and Lumina Crash Espathra(iirc the main set.) Thanks to spore immunity I was switching in on Brute Bonnet, it predicted the 2nd time, but Crunch raised def lol! Another mon Lurantis takes full advantage of is Arboliva, who sets you up to deal unreal damage, despite meek-ish 80 SpA.. The leech seed immunity is relevant vs. Wo-Chien and Meowscarada too, who are set up fodder more or less(I'd say more.) Lurantis unfortunately isn't the best into Dnite, but it still takes +1 tera e-speed, w/ a chance for +2 w/ a basic 252 HP/0 Def spread. Terad Dnite, bar maybe flying and kinda even that cause it's not 4x resistant, takes high damage from Leaf Storm. That move is just so strong, even Corviknight isn't all that safe unless it's SpD or, more likely, Brave Bird. Lurantis is sadly slow, but doesn't take many EVs to outspeed 4 Spe 50s, and is actually a trick absorber cause you often just want to click Leaf Storm.

I'm supposed to say bad things too, or else why just C, and yes there are those sadly. Iron Moth, Skeledirge, and Clodsire top the list for problems, imo though there's stuff like Cloyster, Chien-pao, Bax, and Chi-yu that take advantage of the regular(and likely even tera, cause let's face it you'd want the damage) typing. Move options are slim, I use Giga Drain/ Pollen Puff/ Synthesis for the 3 remaining moves. You don't take very much Foul Play damage even w/ the high base Atk, if 0IV -nature, but you are wasting that attack because this is ofc meant to go special(this means the buff from intimidate is wasted, and just raises foul play damage.) Low pp on Leaf Storm and 90 acc can be unfortunate too. So w/ the typing you need support, but I find that worth it. I might try it under screens, or what have you.

I'm bored so I'll just go back to good things. Lurantis is also a terror vs. Garganacl. I used to use SpA booster tera grass Iron MOth, this is another way to beat it w/o a Cloak user on the team. Breloom is set up fodder, not dealing enough w/ Mach Punch. I'm not 100% sure on the Annihilape match up cause I got a weird set against me the time it cae up I remember, but you can take a +1 100 BP Rage Fist(w/ the standard 0 atk it takes +2 150 BP to ohko iirc.) Dondozo is forced to tera. Though a grass tera and Unaware stops Lurantis mostly(there's still pollen Puff chip,) it gets their tera used up and grass has much more weaknesses than water, so a teammate can take advantage if you have one left. I definitely remember taking down Iron Hands w/ this. Like most neutrals it takes huge damage from Leaf Storm. Mimikyu is livable if not LO, w/ the attack on the disguise boosting(so it can't switch in.) I could go on, but that should be enough to get discussion on it(unless it's a shoe-in, which'd be great.) Really I think usage stats not having this is strange, really overlooked mon. You have the issues, but if you can convince me Slowking, Donphan, or Cyclizar are better you're very persuasive. I'm also interested if there's anyone who's used this, and if they went Lefties grass tera or what.

Also, it may be worth noting that Lurantis can not only beat Ting-Lu very well(unless it's like Weakness Policy Payback or something lol,) it can invalidate what it does completely w/ a different moveset. Ingrain to block Whirlwind and get a 2nd leftovers, or Defog to remove the Stealth Rock. 2hkoing Full HP/SpD AV sets w/ a special move and safety seems really great to me. Like even Iron Moth would need Tera, and Chi-yu w/ modest tera fire specs still isn't ohkoing, and takes an ohko. Palafin might be better for it, the only thing I can think of, but it needs to tera or use a certain item, and that still won't get max Def w/o both, whereas Lurantis doesn't care what kind of, reasonable, Ting-lu set it is.

Edit: lol on the chi yu, it's #6 somehow. I don't like it but more open to other opinions on it. No biggie if it stays just please never raise it despite usage.

hello :) as somebody who used an uncommon grass type pokemon to decent results last season, i feel somewhat confident commenting on this nomination (also I guess this doubles up as a jumpluff to C rank post for all the reasons I listed in my mini team report. not a great pokemon by any means, but its sometimes used on stall as well, so it is not entirely unheard of even if you ignore my team)

as for lurantis, i'm naturally a bit hesitant on it for all the obvious reasons: its a slow pokemon with easily one of the worst movepools in the paldea pokedex. seriously, both offensively and utility wise this thing pretty much only gets the bare minimum. however, it is a grass type pokemon in a metagame where i rate those very highly. aside from gholdengo teams, which gets the most broken ability in the game, id say pretty much every team benefits from having one of those in order to better deal with breloom and wo-chien. you also get solid damage output against dondozo who's honestly a dickhead. with that in mind, here is what i would run on it:

Lurantis @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
Level: 50
Tera Type: Rock
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Tera Blast
- ??? (Pollen Puff sounds fine, but Low Sweep could be interesting too with some Speed investment. It's actually funny you can't run Trailblaze because of its ability)

AV is an item that I feel goes along nicely with Lurantis' slow but somewhat bulky profile, as it lets it better capitalize on chances to get stat boosts from opposing attacks, such as Moonblasts and Shadow Balls. Leaf Storm and Giga Drain are self explanatory, while Rock Tera and Tera Blast are basically the only semblance of coverage that this Pokemon gets. Fire/Water could be decent too, but being able to handle both Iron Moth and Dragonite (both 4x Grass resists) in one go sounds solid to me, especially because being able to deal immediate damage to things that are often paired with the Pokemon it checks seems like a big deal to me

however, in spite of its theoretical potential, this is a nomination that I personally do not approve for two reasons:

1. lack of results

the difference between the C rank Pokemon you mentioned and Lurantis is that most if not all of them have had decent results this generation. At least I know Donphan, Cyclizar and the Slow Brothers in particular have found their way onto decently rated teams at some point (even after S2 for Donphan, as it still gets Sturdy over its cousins). Although this might come across as an elitist point of view, I do not mean to discredit your personal experience at all, and I hope you can understand that, but its simply not possible for me to think about Lurantis outside of its theoretical applications with so little context. If you could show us replays/videos of your Lurantis games it would give us a deeper understanding of its advantages and disadvantages in the actual environment

2. arboliva (and other grass types) exist

arboliva is a pokemon with a similar profile to lurantis, except both its stats and movepool are vastly superior and overall a lot more interesting. it gets coverage for traditional grass type counters without needing to tera, a lot more versatility and very solid end of season results across all 3 regulations up until this point. even something like Tropius, which is currently unranked (and I'm not gonna push to see nominated, although it technically could) sounds a lot more unique than Lurantis due to its ability and movepool in tandem with a very slow U-turn for repositioning against usual Grass-type counterplay

 

[Omastar68]

hello :) as somebody who used an uncommon grass type pokemon to decent results last season, i feel somewhat confident commenting on this nomination (also I guess this doubles up as a jumpluff to C rank post for all the reasons I listed in my mini team report. not a great pokemon by any means, but its sometimes used on stall as well, so it is not entirely unheard of even if you ignore my team)

as for lurantis, i'm naturally a bit hesitant on it for all the obvious reasons: its a slow pokemon with easily one of the worst movepools in the paldea pokedex. seriously, both offensively and utility wise this thing pretty much only gets the bare minimum. however, it is a grass type pokemon in a metagame where i rate those very highly. aside from gholdengo teams, which gets the most broken ability in the game, id say pretty much every team benefits from having one of those in order to better deal with breloom and wo-chien. you also get solid damage output against dondozo who's honestly a dickhead. with that in mind, here is what i would run on it:

Lurantis @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
Level: 50
Tera Type: Rock
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Tera Blast
- ??? (Pollen Puff sounds fine, but Low Sweep could be interesting too with some Speed investment. It's actually funny you can't run Trailblaze because of its ability)

AV is an item that I feel goes along nicely with Lurantis' slow but somewhat bulky profile, as it lets it better capitalize on chances to get stat boosts from opposing attacks, such as Moonblasts and Shadow Balls. Leaf Storm and Giga Drain are self explanatory, while Rock Tera and Tera Blast are basically the only semblance of coverage that this Pokemon gets. Fire/Water could be decent too, but being able to handle both Iron Moth and Dragonite (both 4x Grass resists) in one go sounds solid to me, especially because being able to deal immediate damage to things that are often paired with the Pokemon it checks seems like a big deal to me

however, in spite of its theoretical potential, this is a nomination that I personally do not approve for two reasons:

1. lack of results

the difference between the C rank Pokemon you mentioned and Lurantis is that most if not all of them have had decent results this generation. At least I know Donphan, Cyclizar and the Slow Brothers in particular have found their way onto decently rated teams at some point (even after S2 for Donphan, as it still gets Sturdy over its cousins). Although this might come across as an elitist point of view, I do not mean to discredit your personal experience at all, and I hope you can understand that, but its simply not possible for me to think about Lurantis outside of its theoretical applications with so little context. If you could show us replays/videos of your Lurantis games it would give us a deeper understanding of its advantages and disadvantages in the actual environment

2. arboliva (and other grass types) exist

arboliva is a pokemon with a similar profile to lurantis, except both its stats and movepool are vastly superior and overall a lot more interesting. it gets coverage for traditional grass type counters without needing to tera, a lot more versatility and very solid end of season results across all 3 regulations up until this point. even something like Tropius, which is currently unranked (and I'm not gonna push to see nominated, although it technically could) sounds a lot more unique than Lurantis due to its ability and movepool in tandem with a very slow U-turn for repositioning against usual Grass-type counterplay

Ty for the set and not dismissing me out of hand. Yeah I found it really cool you ran jumpluff, I used to.

I just play on cart, if you can get replays there anymore idk how. My experience isn't that good in general, but even with this sometimes being unbringable, it doesn't seem like why. I'd have to make big changes to go AV, as my other unranked team member is AV lol. If there's another good way to run it in your opinion I'd love to hear, maybe pm to not clutter here. I was also thinking to run it with memento arboliva, a move it gets iirc. Or just some sort of Rilla reg D.

The lack of representation surprises me. Contrary leaf storm can be better than at least some of the unranked that are on home usage. Maybe C is too much, but I'd argue it's easily the next rank down if there was one, at minimum.

 

[Pearl]

I just play on cart, if you can get replays there anymore idk how.

would have to be through a capture card or a cam record, which i think is waaaay too much effort to demand out of a vr post anyway. even though showdown has some limitations, it's still a good enough testing environment, and some replays of showdown games against somewhat standard teams where your nominated pokemon does or doesn't do things should suffice for a nomination post like this (and i honestly think it could help with your other posts as well, since it makes it easier for people to see how your stuff plays out in practice, but i'll keep it at that before i go off-topic too much)

for what it's worth though, i combed through rotoportal and actually did stumble upon a lurantis team from season 3 series 2 (https://ducknusu.hatenablog.com/entry/2023/03/03/001806), which i still don't quite think is enough for a reg C VR placement personally, but at least it's a reference point

 

[Omastar68]

would have to be through a capture card or a cam record, which i think is waaaay too much effort to demand out of a vr post anyway. even though showdown has some limitations, it's still a good enough testing environment, and some replays of showdown games against somewhat standard teams where your nominated pokemon does or doesn't do things should suffice for a nomination post like this (and i honestly think it could help with your other posts as well, since it makes it easier for people to see how your stuff plays out in practice, but i'll keep it at that before i go off-topic too much)

for what it's worth though, i combed through rotoportal and actually did stumble upon a lurantis team from season 3 series 2 (https://ducknusu.hatenablog.com/entry/2023/03/03/001806), which i still don't quite think is enough for a reg C VR placement personally, but at least it's a reference point

O ok. My only issue with Pokemon showdown is players seem to be even better. Whatever I use, always, Ive done bad. To the point where, if I decide I need a high rating to go build on cart, I'll never actually play.

EDIT: Slither wing may still be too high. #78, if we keep it at B- then, imo, things like Maushold and Appletun that are/were near it have to go on here. It doesn't seem good into any of the top 3, kinda major.

 

[Psynergy]

Hello, discussion has slowed down likely due to the upcoming Regulation D ruleset, but I figure we may as well put one last update through before then. There are not too many changes here, but that's largely because why nitpick a bunch of placements right before the new ruleset flips things on their head anyway. Mimikyu, Rotom-W were Photon's noms, but Pearl had made a personal VR and posted it on Discord which was used as a basis for the other changes that are being made.

Most of this is just housekeeping changes but notably Chien-Pao is moving up to S while Flutter Mane is going down half a peg to S-. Chien-Pao was fairly unanimous while Flutter Mane was mostly an either-or opinion for everyone which probably reinforces the drop. Kiby, DerpySuX, and greilmercenary9 all provided good explanations on those major changes that I wanted to include in this post though:

I am torn on dropping Flutter from S to S-, I could go either way there. But I definitely agree that Pao should rise to S. It's harder to cover than Flutter in teambuilding IMO. With multiple other high Ghosts you can kind of try to cover them in one slot with mons like Scizor, Tera Ting, or even just your own Mimi even though the mirror can be annoying, but Pao is so dangerous and common that it must be accounted for even if it means going out of your way. (Ironically bulky Scizor also good for it lol, there's a reason it's relatively high usage this season).

I agree Chien Pao's tier is S tier because, in this Regulation C format, the most important task is how to deal with Chien Pao.
Thanks to Chien Pao, Scizor and Dondozo usage has increased and many players realized how important Booster energy Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle is. I believe Chien Pao is at the center of the Regulation C meta(and Ting-Lu)

Chien-Pao is easily my priority to fit on a team when possible, almost entirely independent of what team style I’m going for, and it’s STAB combination covers the metagame beautifully, even accounting for a lot of common tera types. The high speed and ability certainly help it out too and when you account for all the options tera, dual priority and swords dance present it with, I do think that Chien-Pao is S tier material. While it does kinda feel blasphemous to drop flutter mane out of the top tier, it is somewhat shoehorned into booster energy sets on certain team builds, and while specs or support sets do still perform, it’s not nearly as versatile as it was in series 2.

So yeah, we'll see how this holds when we move into Regulation D but for the time being this will probably be the last major update before the new ruleset. As always, let me know if anything looks off!

Rises
Chien-Pao: Rise from S- to S
Mimikyu: Rise from A to A+
Rotom-Wash: Rise from A to A+
Chi-Yu: Rise from A to A+
Great Tusk: Rise from A- to A
Glimmora: Rise from B+ to A-
Gyarados: Rise from C+ to B-

Drops
Flutter Mane: Drop from S to S-
Annihilape: Drop from A+ to A-
Tinkaton: Drop from B+ to B
Bellibolt: Drop from B to B-

 

[Photon]

I agree with everything here. Chi-Yu, Annihilape and Great Tusk needed a little shifting even if it was still within the A-Ranks, and I think this gets it right. Great Tusk in particular did not belong in A-; check the top 100 teams in Rotoportal for the last couple of seasons and you will see this thing absolutely everywhere.

I think there are a couple of B / C shifts that could be made, but nothing that is particularly egregious jumps out at me. However, as I was contemplating another nom post earlier this month something occurred to me: what separates the B- and C+ mons? When I look at the rank border, I feel like its kind of blurry as to what distinguishes one from the other.

 

[DerpySuX]

I think there are a couple of B / C shifts that could be made, but nothing that is particularly egregious jumps out at me. However, as I was contemplating another nom post earlier this month something occurred to me: what separates the B- and C+ mons? When I look at the rank border, I feel like its kind of blurry as to what distinguishes one from the other.

The line for those is honestly a bit blurry for me as well. My main thing is usage and how applicable the niches they fill tend to be. Gyarados has been gaining usage for a good while now and the niche it fills is pretty useful, so that would ultimately be my justification for it rising to B-.

It gets harder to rank things as objectively the further down the list you go, as I’m sure you’re aware, since the mons down there aren’t seen as much. That’s why we take community input, there’s bound to be someone out there who has experience with something on this list, and we can use that to inform our ranking of said thing.

 

[Omastar68]

I'm pretty sure I said the opposite before. At least I know I was thinking to. But now I say Dragapult should move up to A. I've used it quite a bit, it's pretty great at leading for one, the speed lets it almost always be useful...unless it misses, but that's why I'm sash. It is not actually frail, and can hit from either side or even both(I do Dragon Darts for AV Bax.) Two of the abilities are good, I'm especially wary of subs.

I run tera water(resists ice,) for Hydro Pump. The power alone is often needed, and the coverage is highly appreciated cause I put this mon for fiery stuff iirc. Fire teraing on my Pult isn't unusual either, cause I run Wisp. Wisp is great with the s0peed and sash cause hopefully even I won't miss it twice. It helps w/ DNite and lots of stuff, while Bax, Garg, and Gholdengo all fear one of the other moves I have.

There are ofc many other sets that are probably good, I just really like Hydro Pump when it hits. That said, usage doesn't support Pult going up(though usage is probably what got that wretch Ci-yu up to A+, so I take it with a grain of salt now.) But I think it's worth it w/ it's assortment of power, Speed, and movepool options. Idk, just my take it's no big deal. I'll keep using it regardless.

 

[RandoPokeLover]

(Skip to end if you don't want the details.)
I'm new to Smogon so my opinion can be ignored, I'm fine with that. I also don't know how to post sprites or anything, but I think Annihilape should receive a bump from A- to A and if possible A+.
This might be a bit of a hot take, but here is my reasoning:
Annihilape is a fairly well-rounded pokemon stat-wise; decent defenses allow it to absorb and switch into hits from Clodsire and Non-AV Ting-Lu, punishing them with a boost to his signature move Rage Fist. Even after 1 boost, this move is on the level of EQ and after two it puts Giga Impact to shame. This is furthered by Taunt, preventing Stealth Rock and other entry hazards from non-Mental Herb Pex, Clodsire variants, and Steath Rock Ting-Lu. By shutting down the main use of these pokemon and forcing them to give him serious Rage Fist boosts and set up with Bulk Up, Annihilape can just end up severely injuring or sweeping entire teams on the spot. Annihilape also likes speed-boosting baton passers like Espathra and Dragapult. Dragapult sets up attack with dragon dance too, allowing Annihilape to forgo Bulk Up in exchange for something like Substitute, sponging otherwise dangerous status like burn or paralysis without relying on Tera. In return Annihilape provides a dark/ice counter, and due to substitute freeing up space and allowing Annihilape to drop Tera Fire/Electric, it can run Tera Normal to counter a common Ghost weakness and switch Dragapult in for free into Fighting attacks, making an excellent core.

Espathra provides you with Calm Mind: since bulk up only boosts defense, Annhiliape can be revenge killed by Focus Sash Chi-Yu (which for some reason I see a lot. can anyone explain this?) or Tera Normal abusers like opposing Espathra, Gholdengo (I've used one to suprise and beat opposing Gholdengo that outspeed or win speed tie) and Iron Moth. The SpD boost helps Annihilape take hits from afromentioned pokemon, especially since most lose STAB on their power moves.

However, THATS NOT ALL, FOLKS!!!! Annihilape can be a suicide lead, setting Stealth Rocks and using Final Gambit. This sacrifice allows it to blow past pokemon like Garchomp and Pex.

The only reason I'm not saying higher is Annihilape is too teammate-reliant. While it can pressure at team preview, and even has other tools I didn't mention like Defiant (Thanks for the intimidate, Tauros/Arcanine!) or Vital Spirit (Thanks for the free turn, Yawn/Spore users like Dondozo, Brelloom and Amoonguss!) If the teammate is removed or crippled, Annihilape struggles to find areas to break through. It can also at times be over-reliant on Tera, which can severely hurt your other teammates like Espathra who loves to tera for a possible free sweep on its own.

tl;dr: Annihilape deserves a raise for its flexibility and win games easily, but requires support to do so and can burn your tera use that could be used on a better mon.

EDIT: The ghosty ape offensive calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 93-109 (59.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (100 BP Rage Fist)
+2 252+ Atk Tera Ghost Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 124-146 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (100 BP Rage Fist)
252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 236 HP / 228 Def Iron Moth: 94-112 (50.8 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (All these calc are 100 BP Rage Fist)
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Drain Punch vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Ting-Lu: 162-192 (68.9 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Ting-Lu: 108-127 (45.9 - 54%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Ting-Lu: 108-127 (45.9 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 135-159 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, Annihilape appreciates hazard setters like Garchomp and Great Tusk, helping him break through tons of pokemon.

 

[Omastar68]

(Skip to end if you don't want the details.)
I'm new to Smogon so my opinion can be ignored, I'm fine with that. I also don't know how to post sprites or anything, but I think Annihilape should receive a bump from A- to A and if possible A+.
This might be a bit of a hot take, but here is my reasoning:
Annihilape is a fairly well-rounded pokemon stat-wise; decent defenses allow it to absorb and switch into hits from Clodsire and Non-AV Ting-Lu, punishing them with a boost to his signature move Rage Fist. Even after 1 boost, this move is on the level of EQ and after two it puts Giga Impact to shame. This is furthered by Taunt, preventing Stealth Rock and other entry hazards from non-Mental Herb Pex, Clodsire variants, and Steath Rock Ting-Lu. By shutting down the main use of these pokemon and forcing them to give him serious Rage Fist boosts and set up with Bulk Up, Annihilape can just end up severely injuring or sweeping entire teams on the spot. Annihilape also likes speed-boosting baton passers like Espathra and Dragapult. Dragapult sets up attack with dragon dance too, allowing Annihilape to forgo Bulk Up in exchange for something like Substitute, sponging otherwise dangerous status like burn or paralysis without relying on Tera. In return Annihilape provides a dark/ice counter, and due to substitute freeing up space and allowing Annihilape to drop Tera Fire/Electric, it can run Tera Normal to counter a common Ghost weakness and switch Dragapult in for free into Fighting attacks, making an excellent core.

Espathra provides you with Calm Mind: since bulk up only boosts defense, Annhiliape can be revenge killed by Focus Sash Chi-Yu (which for some reason I see a lot. can anyone explain this?) or Tera Normal abusers like opposing Espathra, Gholdengo (I've used one to suprise and beat opposing Gholdengo that outspeed or win speed tie) and Iron Moth. The SpD boost helps Annihilape take hits from afromentioned pokemon, especially since most lose STAB on their power moves.

However, THATS NOT ALL, FOLKS!!!! Annihilape can be a suicide lead, setting Stealth Rocks and using Final Gambit. This sacrifice allows it to blow past pokemon like Garchomp and Pex.

The only reason I'm not saying higher is Annihilape is too teammate-reliant. While it can pressure at team preview, and even has other tools I didn't mention like Defiant (Thanks for the intimidate, Tauros/Arcanine!) or Vital Spirit (Thanks for the free turn, Yawn/Spore users like Dondozo, Brelloom and Amoonguss!) If the teammate is removed or crippled, Annihilape struggles to find areas to break through. It can also at times be over-reliant on Tera, which can severely hurt your other teammates like Espathra who loves to tera for a possible free sweep on its own.

tl;dr: Annihilape deserves a raise for its flexibility and win games easily, but requires support to do so and can burn your tera use that could be used on a better mon.

EDIT: The ghosty ape offensive calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 93-109 (59.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (100 BP Rage Fist)
+2 252+ Atk Tera Ghost Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 124-146 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (100 BP Rage Fist)
252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 236 HP / 228 Def Iron Moth: 94-112 (50.8 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (All these calc are 100 BP Rage Fist)
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Drain Punch vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Ting-Lu: 162-192 (68.9 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Ting-Lu: 108-127 (45.9 - 54%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Ting-Lu: 108-127 (45.9 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 135-159 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, Annihilape appreciates hazard setters like Garchomp and Great Tusk, helping him break through tons of pokemon.

Moving it back from where it was dropped seems unlikely to happen, but tbh I agree that it should. At the very least I hope we get discussion about why it was dropped, I'm clueless. Probably the mon I'm most scared of, I've run Brave Bird mons in the past just for it. Rage Fist is crazy, and though it's very predictable most of the time, it can run rocks, and may have Encore. The stats are quite good everywhere that is used, and there aren't that many walls for it I would think. It might see some usage drop depending on what people think of the new Zoroark next regulation. That's immune to STABs, and Final Gambit fwiw. Rage Fist is awesome BP after even 1 hit, but Drain Punch is not to be underestimated cause it gets boosted too and can make it even harder to break. I'm running Normal Tera Liquid Ooze Swalot to force them to suck up ooze LOL.

 

[RandoPokeLover]

I'm running Normal Tera Liquid Ooze Swalot to force them to suck up ooze LOL.

First of all, LOL. But anyways, this actually helps prove my point. Annihilape can easily trade, forcing a Tera then killing it. While turning a 3v3 into 2v2 isn't much of a change, you sacrificed your Tera into the dead ape. That alone is advantage enough, as your opponent will know you can't pull a surprise element on them and suddenly resist what would be quad effective.

It might see some usage drop depending on what people think of the new Zoroark next regulation. That's immune to STABs, and Final Gambit fwiw.

I could see it being hurt in Regulation D, but, unless H-Zoroark is like A or S tier your saying one random mon is immune to its STABs, while every other can't even resist. Plus, this is Regulation C, not D.

 

[Pearl]

(Skip to end if you don't want the details.)
I'm new to Smogon so my opinion can be ignored, I'm fine with that. I also don't know how to post sprites or anything, but I think Annihilape should receive a bump from A- to A and if possible A+.
This might be a bit of a hot take, but here is my reasoning:
Annihilape is a fairly well-rounded pokemon stat-wise; decent defenses allow it to absorb and switch into hits from Clodsire and Non-AV Ting-Lu, punishing them with a boost to his signature move Rage Fist. Even after 1 boost, this move is on the level of EQ and after two it puts Giga Impact to shame. This is furthered by Taunt, preventing Stealth Rock and other entry hazards from non-Mental Herb Pex, Clodsire variants, and Steath Rock Ting-Lu. By shutting down the main use of these pokemon and forcing them to give him serious Rage Fist boosts and set up with Bulk Up, Annihilape can just end up severely injuring or sweeping entire teams on the spot. Annihilape also likes speed-boosting baton passers like Espathra and Dragapult. Dragapult sets up attack with dragon dance too, allowing Annihilape to forgo Bulk Up in exchange for something like Substitute, sponging otherwise dangerous status like burn or paralysis without relying on Tera. In return Annihilape provides a dark/ice counter, and due to substitute freeing up space and allowing Annihilape to drop Tera Fire/Electric, it can run Tera Normal to counter a common Ghost weakness and switch Dragapult in for free into Fighting attacks, making an excellent core.

Espathra provides you with Calm Mind: since bulk up only boosts defense, Annhiliape can be revenge killed by Focus Sash Chi-Yu (which for some reason I see a lot. can anyone explain this?) or Tera Normal abusers like opposing Espathra, Gholdengo (I've used one to suprise and beat opposing Gholdengo that outspeed or win speed tie) and Iron Moth. The SpD boost helps Annihilape take hits from afromentioned pokemon, especially since most lose STAB on their power moves.

However, THATS NOT ALL, FOLKS!!!! Annihilape can be a suicide lead, setting Stealth Rocks and using Final Gambit. This sacrifice allows it to blow past pokemon like Garchomp and Pex.

The only reason I'm not saying higher is Annihilape is too teammate-reliant. While it can pressure at team preview, and even has other tools I didn't mention like Defiant (Thanks for the intimidate, Tauros/Arcanine!) or Vital Spirit (Thanks for the free turn, Yawn/Spore users like Dondozo, Brelloom and Amoonguss!) If the teammate is removed or crippled, Annihilape struggles to find areas to break through. It can also at times be over-reliant on Tera, which can severely hurt your other teammates like Espathra who loves to tera for a possible free sweep on its own.

tl;dr: Annihilape deserves a raise for its flexibility and win games easily, but requires support to do so and can burn your tera use that could be used on a better mon.

EDIT: The ghosty ape offensive calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 93-109 (59.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (100 BP Rage Fist)
+2 252+ Atk Tera Ghost Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 124-146 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (100 BP Rage Fist)
252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 236 HP / 228 Def Iron Moth: 94-112 (50.8 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (All these calc are 100 BP Rage Fist)
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Drain Punch vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Ting-Lu: 162-192 (68.9 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Ting-Lu: 108-127 (45.9 - 54%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Ting-Lu: 108-127 (45.9 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252+ Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 135-159 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, Annihilape appreciates hazard setters like Garchomp and Great Tusk, helping him break through tons of pokemon.

hello :) first of all, welcome to the community! something i want to point out about your post is that most if not all of the people involved in managing these threads (as well as the readers in general) are well aware of a pokemon does, as well as the traits it has. what i mean by this is that lengthy explanations on the moves annihilape gets (unless they're seldom seen options with somewhat high value such as, in annihilape's case, curse on suicide lead sets or sub/encore on bulk up sets) and its stats are not actually obligatory for a VR post. the most important part is explaining how the pokemon interacts with the metagame surrounding it, which you actually do as well through your own lens.

i'm actually the guy whose personal VR impacted annihilape's drop, so i guess it wouldn't hurt to share my perception of that pokemon's place in the current regulation c metagame. for starters, passing stats to it with a espathra set up is a strategy that, in spite of its power in regulation b, is severely gimped by ting-lu's existence in regulation c, as the fact that it commonly runs whirlwind makes it hard to rack up a large amount of boosts to pass to another pokemon (and said pokemon usually has to be gholdengo since it provides an immunity to whirlwind and perish song, two common means of putting an end to these chains). with that said, annihilape on its own is still a very powerful ace and an obviously good pokemon that can consistently thrive in its good match ups, hence its placement at A-. while viability is very subjective and i could totally see ape being at least A rank in a more favorable metagame to it, here are some of the reasons why i placed it where i did in my personal VR

1. its "wincon/ace" sets are a massive tera hog

which is fine on paper. dragonite is a massive tera hog and that isn't stopping it from being considered by many to be the best pokemon in the format. the way i make the distinction here is that dragonite is a tera hog with a wide range of applications against common teams, even having some sets that can perform strongly without that option (such as choice band variants). in annihilape's case however, its bulk up set tends to be very inflexible move wise, which impacts my perception of it negatively

2. it's a pokemon that is greatly affected by evs as a mechanic

which sounds very stupid i know, but an example of this is that your offensive annihilape calcs assumed its attack evs were 252 with an adamant nature. running that much offensive investment means that you're either not as bulky or as fast as annihilape likes to be in many of its target match ups, which i thought was a big deal when i used that set myself back in series 1. if we were talking about how things used to be in rby and gsc, annihilape would be bulky, strong and fast (enough) all at the same time, but with the way modern pokemon works you pretty much always end up having to sacrifice one of these 3 elements to some extent, which impacts its applications in practice (e.g. if you run hp atk or hp sdef you'll run into encore dragonite faster than ape, which makes it very sad)

3. it's completely powerless into some of the most prevalent pokemon in the format

its funny because somebody on discord recently told me i was going to lose to stall because i wasn't using annihilape. see, the thing about annihilape in that match up is that dondozo can actually beat it comfortably just by clicking fissure until it connects. if you run tera flying to overcome this you're passing up on fire/poison/water/even normal, all of which are much more useful to flip annihilape's weaknesses around against offensive threats. now, consider the fact that dondozo is seen on a lot more teams than just full stall and you've got yourself a massive roadblock for annihilape in a lot of games. similarly, a lot of gholdengo can handle unboosted rage fists even without tera, and when that option is factored in alongside that pokemon's immunity to taunt and encore, that's another massive threat to your sweep attempts. iron bundle can encore bulk ups from above and even with tera taken into account annihilape can still be overwhelmed by multiple offensive threats used in tandem, especially when said threats either resist drain punch (e.g. mimikyu, flutter mane, iron moth) or do more damage than the damage you can recover with it.

now, do note that i think annihilape is an excellent pokemon with a set of traits that make it really strong on a lot of teams, but i'd personally say that a lot of its strength in the format right now comes from its capabilities as a lead pokemon. its a hyperconsistent stealth rock setter (in a metagame where ting lu exists, but alternatives are cool to have and ape does some things ting lu can't), the threat of final gambit is obnoxious to play against and on top of that it can also (probably) run a mean assault vest set, making use of u-turn to abuse dondozo switch ins against it. still though, i'd say its a pokemon whose place in the metagame is properly reflected by its current rank, as for the most part people did a good job adapting to its threat instead of just giving it free rage fist stacks

 

[RandoPokeLover]

hello :) first of all, welcome to the community! something i want to point out about your post is that most if not all of the people involved in managing these threads (as well as the readers in general) are well aware of a pokemon does, as well as the traits it has. what i mean by this is that lengthy explanations on the moves annihilape gets (unless they're seldom seen options with somewhat high value such as, in annihilape's case, curse on suicide lead sets or sub/encore on bulk up sets) and its stats are not actually obligatory for a VR post. the most important part is explaining how the pokemon interacts with the metagame surrounding it, which you actually do as well through your own lens.

i'm actually the guy whose personal VR impacted annihilape's drop, so i guess it wouldn't hurt to share my perception of that pokemon's place in the current regulation c metagame. for starters, passing stats to it with a espathra set up is a strategy that, in spite of its power in regulation b, is severely gimped by ting-lu's existence in regulation c, as the fact that it commonly runs whirlwind makes it hard to rack up a large amount of boosts to pass to another pokemon (and said pokemon usually has to be gholdengo since it provides an immunity to whirlwind and perish song, two common means of putting an end to these chains). with that said, annihilape on its own is still a very powerful ace and an obviously good pokemon that can consistently thrive in its good match ups, hence its placement at A-. while viability is very subjective and i could totally see ape being at least A rank in a more favorable metagame to it, here are some of the reasons why i placed it where i did in my personal VR

1. its "wincon/ace" sets are a massive tera hog

which is fine on paper. dragonite is a massive tera hog and that isn't stopping it from being considered by many to be the best pokemon in the format. the way i make the distinction here is that dragonite is a tera hog with a wide range of applications against common teams, even having some sets that can perform strongly without that option (such as choice band variants). in annihilape's case however, its bulk up set tends to be very inflexible move wise, which impacts my perception of it negatively

2. it's a pokemon that is greatly affected by evs as a mechanic

which sounds very stupid i know, but an example of this is that your offensive annihilape calcs assumed its attack evs were 252 with an adamant nature. running that much offensive investment means that you're either not as bulky or as fast as annihilape likes to be in many of its target match ups, which i thought was a big deal when i used that set myself back in series 1. if we were talking about how things used to be in rby and gsc, annihilape would be bulky, strong and fast (enough) all at the same time, but with the way modern pokemon works you pretty much always end up having to sacrifice one of these 3 elements to some extent, which impacts its applications in practice (e.g. if you run hp atk or hp sdef you'll run into encore dragonite faster than ape, which makes it very sad)

3. it's completely powerless into some of the most prevalent pokemon in the format

its funny because somebody on discord recently told me i was going to lose to stall because i wasn't using annihilape. see, the thing about annihilape in that match up is that dondozo can actually beat it comfortably just by clicking fissure until it connects. if you run tera flying to overcome this you're passing up on fire/poison/water/even normal, all of which are much more useful to flip annihilape's weaknesses around against offensive threats. now, consider the fact that dondozo is seen on a lot more teams than just full stall and you've got yourself a massive roadblock for annihilape in a lot of games. similarly, a lot of gholdengo can handle unboosted rage fists even without tera, and when that option is factored in alongside that pokemon's immunity to taunt and encore, that's another massive threat to your sweep attempts. iron bundle can encore bulk ups from above and even with tera taken into account annihilape can still be overwhelmed by multiple offensive threats used in tandem, especially when said threats either resist drain punch (e.g. mimikyu, flutter mane, iron moth) or do more damage than the damage you can recover with it.

now, do note that i think annihilape is an excellent pokemon with a set of traits that make it really strong on a lot of teams, but i'd personally say that a lot of its strength in the format right now comes from its capabilities as a lead pokemon. its a hyperconsistent stealth rock setter (in a metagame where ting lu exists, but alternatives are cool to have and ape does some things ting lu can't), the threat of final gambit is obnoxious to play against and on top of that it can also (probably) run a mean assault vest set, making use of u-turn to abuse dondozo switch ins against it. still though, i'd say its a pokemon whose place in the metagame is properly reflected by its current rank, as for the most part people did a good job adapting to its threat instead of just giving it free rage fist stacks

Okay, Thanks for clearing things up. But, the part about Dondozo being a roadblock, can't Annihilape use the lack of reliable recovery against it? After a little chip from hazards, if luck favoring it Annihilape can beat Donmandozo in a one-on-one.
Also, the fact that Gholdengo can handle unboosted Rage Fists without tera is something you can't just say-Annihilape can easily get that boost and then Gholdengo is forced to tera.

But okay, I agree with Annihilape staying in A-.