Suspect RMT (Ranked 5th)

[BlueCookies]

Hello Smogon. When I first made this team, it won about 30 matches in a row and climbed up to 6th, but then I got into a little slump and starting winning 2 or 3 for every loss, and my rating suffered because of it. But I stuck with the team and ended up climbing my way past my previous peak. I Think I'm going to be done with the team for a while since I want to try a more offensive minded team, but I might use it again towards the end of the test so I could use some help making it better, and by posting this RMT I can give my analysis on Latios and it might help people make a decision on Latios tier placement by seeing what teams are doing well at the top of the leaderboard.

This team is based around SkarmBliss weakening my opponents team early game, and having my late game sweepers clean up end game. In most games I would just switch back between Skarm and Bliss while occasionally throwing a switch to Rotom in there, without ever having to reveal my other two sweepers. Without further ado I present the team that has me ranked 5th on the suspect ladder:

--------------------

Metagross@ Focus Sash
Adamant
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
~Stealth Rock
~Explosion
~Bullet Punch
~Earthquake

I needed a suicide lead to set up stealth rocks early, due to me having some trouble against Salamence, and residual damage really helps my late game sweepers. You may seem a little confused about why I chose Focus Sash as an item, so let me explain. If I choose Occa berry to help against Heatran and Infernape leads, I lose to Dugtrio and Mamoswine leads(which I have seen a decent amount of). If I chose shuca berry it would have been the opposite. So I decided to run focus sash to get the benefits of both. This also allows me to run max speed which has helped me a lot. When I come up against Metagross and Jirachi, I almost always Earthquake off the bat while they either Stealth Rock or Trick(Has happened to me a few times). Then, they proceed to switch to something that can absorb an earthquake while I stealth rock, and then I go from there.

Latios@ Choice Specs
Timid
4 HP/ 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe
~Draco Meteor
~Thunderbolt
~Surf
~Trick

Latios is one of my 3 lategame sweepers after Blissey and Skarmory have weakened my opponents team enough. Timid is to make sure I atleast tie with other Latios, and with Choice Specs I already have a very high damage output. Trick is to allow me to screw over Blissey, since two of my late game sweepers are Special Sweepers(They both also have trick). The rest of my moves are for maximum damage and coverage. Latios has done well in beating Salamence without a Dragon Dance since I will often end up sacrficing a pokemon just to allow Latios to come in without Salamence setting up a Dragon Dance and let stealth rock take it's toll. I chose Latios over other sweepers mainly because I wanted something that had offered me some good defensive switching capabilities, and he lets me switch on Infernape, which can cause SkarmBliss trouble. Due to the neutral coverage Latios has, he is one of the best late game sweepers.

Scizor@ Life Orb
Adamant
252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 6 Sp.Def
~Bullet Punch
~U-Turn
~Superpower
~Pursuit

I am open to some better EV spreads, but I want Scizor to be bulky. I was actually thinking about lowering my speed IV to 30, just to make sure that if my Scizor was out against another Scizor I would U-Turn last, but I never really got around to it. I chose Life Orb over Choice Bande because 2 of my other sweepers are holding choice items, and 3 is too much especially since Scizor can't learn trick. I didn't want to use Swords Dance because the way my team is designed I don't want to waste turns to set up and sweep, I just need them for finishing off weakened pokemon, which Scizor and his new Bullet Punch is great at. U-Turn also helps me scout and rack up the residual damage on my opponent. Pursuit may seem a little wierd since it doesn't do a ton of damage to fleeing foes, but it still does a good chunk of damage, so they will die to stealth rock and spikes. Pursuit also has helped me a few times at beating Blissey before my opponent knows I'm holding a life orb. Blissey will protect to scout my move, and I'll use Pursuit(which makes my opponent think I'm choice banded since not many people use Life orb Pursuit) which will cause them to stay in and try to wish/seismic toss me while I KO Blissey with Superpower.

Rotom@ Choice Scarf
Modest
4 HP/ 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe
~Thunderbolt
~Shadow Ball
~Will-o-Wisp
~Trick

Rotom is my last late game sweeper although he comes out mid-game much more often than Scizor and Latios. Trick lets me screw up Blissey for the same reason as Latios. I didn't choose Overheat since most people assume I know Overheat and switch out Steels from me so I decided to use that slot for a scouting move that also can cripple my opponents team even more. However, I have been considdering changing it to a Hidden Power(Mainly fighting) but Will-o-Wisp has done a great job for me, and even if Tyranitar comes in on me to trap me with Pursuit, Will-o-Wisp still makes him near useless anyway. Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball still hit most things just as/almost as hard as Overheat would anyway, and I would rather be locked into Will-o-Wisp/T-Bolt/Shadow Ball than Overheat anyway. Rotom makes a great revenge killer for things like Gyarados, Lucario and Salamence. Rotom also acts as my Spin Blocker even though not many people use Spinners, because rocks mainly, but also spikes are important to my team's success. Rotom's typing is also very good defensively like Scizor and Latios which is Important to my team so I don't have to rely on Skarmory and Blissey so much. Also, being able to switch in on resistances/immunities effectively gives me a good time to heal my pokemon with Wish Bliss.

Blissey@ Leftovers
Calm
76 HP/ 252 Def/ 180 Sp.Def
~Wish
~Protect
~Seismic Toss
~Toxic

I have been considdering getting rid of Wish/Protect for Softboiled/Aromatherapy but I'm not sure since wish healing has helped the team a lot, but I have occasionally had Latios/Rotom get paralyzed/poisoned and I don't have a sleep absorber so I could see the benefits. Also, if anyone has a better EV spread I will take it into considderation because I just threw this ev spread together without much thought, other than I wanted it to be calm and have a Sp.Def investment to take Specs Latios Draco Meteors better. I chose Seismic Toss over any other attacking move only for the consistant damage output and I needed a way to do damage to Heatran. Toxic has been very helpful in weakening pokemon like Gyarados and Salamence that think they can come in on Bliss and have a free set up. Protect helps me scout Scizor and Tyranitar's moves so I can make appropriate switches, while also letting Wish heal me. A lot of the metagame is weak to SkarmBliss, which is why my team was so successful. People were so focused on making sure they could handle the Tripple Dragon/Steel teams that they forgot about SkarmBliss walling them.

Skarmory@ Shed Shell
Impish
252 HP/ 244 Def/ 12 Spe
~Brave Bird
~Whirlwind
~Spikes
~Roost

Skarmory isn't as great at walling physical attackers this generation due to the new more powerful physical attacks and attackers like Close Combat and Stone Edge, but he still does his job at setting up spikes and shuffling my opponents team to rack up residual damage. Shed Shell is to allow me to escape from the popular Magnezone, while the 12 speed ev's are just to make sure I'm faster than other Skarmories so I can WW first and any CB Tyranitar that only try to outspeed 4 speed Skarms. Even though I lack Leftovers, I chose Brave Bird over Drill Peck because the difference in power makes a huge difference against pokemon like Scizor, Lucario, Machamp, and Blissey, along with just being able to do a good amount of damage to Latioses, Salamences, and Gyaradoses that think they can switch in for free(other than Stealth Rock of course :p). Skarmory also helps at Whirlwinding Metagross at the end of a Gliscor-->Meta baton pass chain if my Trickers can't get the job done preventing the pass due to hax or something.

--------------------

Threat List(I'm only posting pokemon I've had problems against here):

Infernape: I haven't really had many problems with him, it's just that my best switch in is usually Latios or Rotom, depending if he's out against Blissey or Skarmory and how I feel like predicting that match.

Salamence: The fact that Salamence runs mixed sets gives me trouble, especially since after a Dragon Dance I have to rely on Scizor to revenge kill him. When he comes in sometimes I unfortunately have to leave Blissey/Skarmory in and sacrifice them and hope that they Dragon Dance while I can Toxic/Whirlwind them so that if they kill me I can revenge kill with Rotom or Latios if he doesn't have a DD under his belt.

Machamp: Just the fact that Confusion can cause Trouble for Skarmory, and I usually have to use Latios if he's at or near full health and if he's in KO range or doesn't have Payback I can use Rotom.

Rotom-A: I have faced two SubRotoms that really screwed me over. I think If I put a move on Metagross that can break its sub, I might have less trouble, but I really don't want to get rid of any of his moves. But, this is what RMT's are for :)

--------------------

Latios analysis: So far through the test, Latios has definitely been a top tier OU, there's no doubt about that. However, I would actually considder using Specs Latias>Latios on this team, although I would have to test it. I think Latias' Bulk helps me more on a team like this, but Latios' higher Sp.Atk might prove to be more effective than having extra bulk. Latios hasn't caused me any trouble(mainly because I run Blissey and Scizor) but even mixed Latioses haven't caused me any trouble at all. Scizor, Metagross, and Tyranitar(All ways to beat Latios) were all popular before the Latis were tested so it's not like Latios is overcentralizing by making them slightly more popular. I think the whole reason Latios is used on almost every team is because there's no other way to see how good Latios is unless you use him. At this point in the test, I would vote OU, but I'm going to test a more offensive team and see how dangerous Latios is from that perspective. I'm too tired to really go into more depth about my thoughts, so I'll save it for when/if I have to write a paragraph to be allowed to vote.

So Smogon, rate, hate, steal :)

 

[Thorns]

Anyway, you're probably the only other person I've seen using SkarmBliss
...heh. Anyway, you are pretty Heracross weak. Rotom does okay, but unless you use Overheat on the switchin, you are dead. To alleviate this I suggest a Gliscor over (yes, I'm suggesting this) your Metagross. Gliscor is THE heracross counter, and you really don't need a Suicide lead on a team like this. Shift Rotom or something to the lead position.

 

[Reverb]

Given your mix mence weakness, I suggest changing your blissey's moveset a little. Change Wish/Protect to Softboiled/Ice Beam so that you can OHKO mence.* Additionally, you will be able to hit gengar and rotom.


*Even a max attack mence with outrage cannot OHKO blissey. Most will dd on you and meet their doom.

 

[Reverb]

For Blissey, if you change those moves, make the ev spread 78 hp, 252 def, 80 sp atk, 100 sp def

 

[Deaga]

Just how does your Metagross Earthquake opposing Metagross and Jirachi? It doesn't have that move. ._.
I also think Focus Sash is quite a lame item on it; it's unlikely that any non-fire type move will OHKO anyway, so Occa Berry is probably a better Option.

I also really dislike Scarf Rotom because it seems to die way too fast, but it works for you, that's ok. Overall, a nice team, I'd say. Just fix your Metagross.

 

[Reverb]

I did some testing, replace two pokes I'd say. First of all, you have a HUGE fire weakness. So get rid of scizor and replace it with a defense suicune with surf, ice beam, hp electric, and roar. Next, replace rotom with an offensive infernape. Moveset should be Flare Blitz, Close Combat, grass knot, and mach punch. Make him naive and give him life orb...

 

[BlueCookies]

Anyway, you're probably the only other person I've seen using SkarmBliss
...heh. Anyway, you are pretty Heracross weak. Rotom does okay, but unless you use Overheat on the switchin, you are dead. To alleviate this I suggest a Gliscor over (yes, I'm suggesting this) your Metagross. Gliscor is THE heracross counter, and you really don't need a Suicide lead on a team like this. Shift Rotom or something to the lead position.

I don't know if really want to use Gliscor, because that would make me have to either use Rotom as a lead(I don't know how well that would work) or Gliscor with some kind of taunt/sr/eq moveset. thanks for the input though.

Given your mix mence weakness, I suggest changing your blissey's moveset a little. Change Wish/Protect to Softboiled/Ice Beam so that you can OHKO mence.* Additionally, you will be able to hit gengar and rotom.


*Even a max attack mence with outrage cannot OHKO blissey. Most will dd on you and meet their doom.

Thanks, I'll have to run some calcs to see how much Sp.A I need to make sure I can break standard SubRotom's subs and Ice beam does help me take care of Mence a little better so it won't be able to set up on Blissey. I'll test it out later.

Just how does your Metagross Earthquake opposing Metagross and Jirachi? It doesn't have that move. ._.
I also think Focus Sash is quite a lame item on it; it's unlikely that any non-fire type move will OHKO anyway, so Occa Berry is probably a better Option.

I also really dislike Scarf Rotom because it seems to die way too fast, but it works for you, that's ok. Overall, a nice team, I'd say. Just fix your Metagross.

Thanks, that was a typo. I fixed it now. Ground type moves can also OHKO, and I actually just fought a counter Tyranitar where sash saved me. I have considdered Occa Berry and Shuca Berry but at the end of the day I decided to stick with Sash. Rotom has done very well for me, so I don't think I want to change it, unless you can suggest something tempting enough to make me want to get rid of Rotom for it.

I did some testing, replace two pokes I'd say. First of all, you have a HUGE fire weakness. So get rid of scizor and replace it with a defense suicune with surf, ice beam, hp electric, and roar. Next, replace rotom with an offensive infernape. Moveset should be Flare Blitz, Close Combat, grass knot, and mach punch. Make him naive and give him life orb...

I haven't had any trouble at all with fire types. The only fire types that can cause me trouble are Heatran and Infernape and I can beat them pretty easily(although if Heatran has explosion it could potentially kill Blissey). Suicune isn't offensive enough, and if I were to make it offensive, I would have to use calm mind and as I explained in my op I don't really want to use set up sweepers, especially if they're boosting with a +1 move like Calm Mind. Infernape's a good suggestion, but with everyone running Latios which beats Infernape and he doesn't revenge kill as well as Scizor and Rotom. If I had trouble with stall I think infernape would be a good addition but I haven't had trouble with stall so I don't think Infernape is right for my team. A scarf version could work, but his attack stats are pretty low for choice scarf standards so I don't know.

Thanks for the rates guys, keep them comming.

 

[Reverb]

If you put in suicune, get rid of surf on latios and give it hp fire

 

[BlueCookies]

If you put in suicune, get rid of surf on latios and give it hp fire

I really don't like HP Fire on Latios because I have to lower it's speed IV to 30 meaning I lose the speed tie with other Latios, and I lost about 2 matches because I lost the speed tie and I won about 2 matches because I won the speed tie. Choice Specs surfs do a lot of damage to steels anyway, so imo having that extra bit of speed counts more than being able to 1hko scizor switchins. Thanks anyway though.

 

[Legacy Raider]

I'm sort of worried about how vulnerable you are to Infernape if Latias and Rotom are gone. This scenario may seem a bit contrived but believe me, if anyone on suspect plans on trying to sweep with Infernape they will have Pursuit users to deal with Latios at the least. The fact that Rotom is choiced as well and can be KOed by Pursuit definitely doesn't help this =/. Even lead Infernape with Fire Blast + Close Combat can wreak havoc once those two are gone. I have two suggestions for your team that I can think of right now that might help this weakness somewhat.

Firstly, consider replacing your Metagross lead with Swampert. Swampert is quite undervalued as a lead on suspect. The most common leads - Metagross, Jirachi, Heatran, Mamoswine, lead Infernape, Tyranitar - can't really do much to it at all. Azelf shouldn't give you too much bother as you can easily switch in Rotom to take it out, and Aerodactyl does laughable damage to Swampert, so difficulties with suicide leads isn't too much of a problem. While Swampert won't help too much against sweeper Infernape with Grass Knot, it is a full stop to lead ape and the added fire resistance is welcome. Also, it is something else to stop Tyranitar in its tracks if Scizor is taken out by Magnezone while Pursuiting Latios.

The other option you might consider is dropping Skarmory for some form of Gyarados. I think a ResTalk Gyarados with DD and Waterfall might be beneficial to the team, but you will need to ensure that you take out Celebi and Latias with Scizor before you attempt a sweep with it. ResTalk Gyarados also solves your Infernape and Lucario weakness completely, as well as beating Scizor too. It gives you a status absorber so you won't need to try Aromatherapy on Blissey. Another boon for this Gyarados is that if you can remove Celebi and Vaporeon from the opposing team, it can single handedly beat a stall team if it is the last pokemon. Since you are running quite a balanced team you might have some problems with pure stall, and ResTalk Gyarados should help alleviate them. I would recommend an Impish nature and a spread of 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe, which will put your speed at 309 after a dragon dance.

However, you might find that ResTalk Gyarados is too sluggish for your team and makes it too defensive, so you could try using an offensive LO Gyarados too. While this provides much less of an Infernape counter as a check, it does help to keep the offensive pace of your team going.

Anyway, I think your team is pretty cool. Hope this helps.

 

[ToF]

LR, the whole point of the team is to utilize residual damage to allow for heavy-hitting sweepers to eliminate "counters". Removing Skarmory will remove this strategy, which I think he wants to keep.

First thing I want to start off by discussing is the Metagross lead. Regardless of how you look at it, Focus Sash is an inferior item to Occa Berry. If you face a lead Fake Out Infernape, you lose with Focus Sash, yet you win with Occa Berry. If you face a lead Heatran, you survive with 40% health as opposed to 1%. If you face a lead Mamoswine, you survive with about 4%, and win the bout. Simple logic, lose the Focus Sash.

As for LR's concern about Infernape, I don't see it as an issue. You have dual revenge-killers for it, and residual damage on your side. Added to the fact that you have dual priority users as well, Infernape is going to have a tough time causing havok.

The only real issue with this team is the Pursuit weakness of your main sweepers. Your basically asking for Tyranitar to mess with your strategy, and once your sweepers are gone, you don't have much offense to execute your offensive assault. I'd much rather remove Rotom from the team than Latios. Spin blocking is kind of overrated on Suspect, and also not common at all. I've only seen one user use a spinner on Suspect (Earthworm), so I feel removing the Pursuit weakness is a better option than keeping a spin-blocker.

As for the substitution, I say Jirachi is a nice substitute. With the ability to Trick, Thunderbolt, and Iron Head annoying Tyranitar, it could fit that slot without much change, while adding a boatload more resistances with its fantastic typing. I've always found that Spikes + SR + Jirachi is an annoying combination, and the threat of flinchhax will definitely cause many switches.

Good luck, hope some of this was helpful.

 

[ShadowRayquaza]

Wait, aren't metagrosses not supposed to be suicide leads? And shouldn't it hold a occa berry?

 

[Bad Ass]

How do you keep retards busy? See above.