Suicide Cup Doubles!

Adrian Marin

Adrian Marin

Approved by Arcticblast and Treecko. ​

Suicide Cup Doubles is a tier with a completely different goal, to KO your team members first! Since this tier has a completely different goal, very few Pokemon are viable. Usually lowering your bulk is now actually a good thing! Maximizing Black Sludge/Burn/Toxic Damage is now beneficial for your team!

I'm sure many of you remember Suicide Cup, a metagame I made back in B/W. Suicide Cup Doubles (AKA as SCD) is a much more balanced version of the original!

The biggest change is that all Pokemon must use a typeless Dragon Rage! This change fixes a huge flaw the original Suicide Cup had, it was often impossible to kill your Pokemon if it got Tricked. Well, no more! Now your teammates can kill off your Pokemon for you! If you're a sadist like me, you'll enjoy this metagame.


Click Open to see the rules:

Banned Pokemon

-Shedinja
--Alakazam/Kadabra/Abra, Sigilyph, Reuniclus/Duosion/Solosis

Banned Moves:
-Memento
-Healing Wish
-Heal Pulse
-Lunar Dance
-Magic Room
-Nature Power
-Imprison
-All attacks except typeless Dragon Rage
-Curse

Suspect:

-Xatu
-Espeon
-Stealth Rock
Additional rules.

-You must have a full team of 6 Pokemon.
-All team members must be Level 100.
-Each Pokemon MUST HAVE Dragon Rage
-Dragon Rage is the only attacking move allowed.
-Team Preview is enabled.
-Sleep Clause: Limit one foe put to sleep
-Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokemon
-Four move clause: All Pokemon must use four moves.


If you have a hard time team building, no worries! You can always start out with this sample team!:

Liepard @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: NaN HP / NaN Def / NaN SAtk / NaN SDef
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Dragon Rage
- Toxic

Smeargle @ Black Sludge
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: NaN HP / NaN Def / NaN SAtk / NaN SDef
- Follow Me
- Defog
- Gastro Acid
- Dragon Rage

Accelgor @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: NaN HP / NaN Def / NaN SAtk / NaN SDef
- Substitute
- Dragon Rage
- Encore
- Toxic

Ninetales @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: NaN Def / NaN SAtk / NaN SDef
- Substitute
- Dragon Rage
- Toxic
- Pain Split

Pichu-Spiky-eared (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Follow Me
- Toxic
- Dragon Rage
- Substitute

Charizard @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: NaN HP / NaN Def / NaN SDef
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Dragon Rage
- Protect


Playability:

For now, you can only play this through Custom Game, only problem is Dragon Rage is not typeless.

Conclusion:

I only hope that Suicide Cup Doubles becomes an exciting tier for everyone in the Smogon community to play! If you have any strategies and sets you want to share with us, be sure to post them!

Replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-113679948

 
Last edited:

EV

Banned deucer.
Does it matter if Dragon Rage is typeless since it does fixed damage? What's the preference of Black Sludge over Toxic Orb? (Sorry, I need to learn all these nuances.)

I'd run a whole team of Drought and Solar Power so that way even if you're Taunted you'll still be hurting yourself.
 
AWailOfATail

AWailOfATail

viva la darmz
I'm running a Skill Swap Magic Bounce Xatu and Stealth Rocks Diglett. Then I switch to a bunch of x4 SR weak pokes and die. Woulda beat Adrian but SIGLYPH

And eevee, black sludge damages you the first turn, Toxic Orb only poisons you the first turn and starts out low (you could get whirlwinded).
 
Adrian Marin

Adrian Marin

The Eevee General said:
Does it matter if Dragon Rage is typeless since it does fixed damage? What's the preference of Black Sludge over Toxic Orb? (Sorry, I need to learn all these nuances.)

I'd run a whole team of Drought and Solar Power so that way even if you're Taunted you'll still be hurting yourself.
Click to expand...
With Black Sludge, you can still Toxic yourself with the help of your teammate. Black Sludge is usually superior if you can manage to stop foes from stealing your item via Trick/Switcheroo.

Right now, i've suspected Xatu and Espeon because Skill Swap + Magic Bounce + Stealth Rock seems to be incredibly powerful now. Alternatively, we could just ban Stealth Rock.
 
Albacore

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Man, bringing this metagame to doubles really increased the amount of creative ways you can kill yourself.

Has anybody tried out using Leech Seed on a Liquid Ooze Pokemon? Unfortunately, everything that gets Liquid Ooze is Poison type, and therefore can't be poisoned. But I guess you can still give it Iron Barbs over Black Sludge, so it's not that bad.
 
Last edited:

EV

Banned deucer.
(another question... why'd you EV your Pokes? And Ninetales has 252 in 3 slots. Do we have to EV? And is there an Evasion clause or no?)

I'm just winging it here, so be nice.


Aroma Veil @ Black Sludge
~Substitute
~Disable (to halt Dragon Rage... or to make teammate struggle w/ Choice moved)
~Sweet Kiss/Toxic (your teammate)
~Dragon Rage


Magician @ nothing
~Dragon Rage (to steal opponent's item)
~EDIT: Switcheroo (in case you steal Choice item?)
~Embargo
~Toxic (your teammate)


Drizzle @ Black Sludge (anti Drought/Solar Power)
~Encore
~Dragon Rage
~Belly Drum
~Substitute
 
Last edited:
canno

canno

formerly The Reptile
I don't see anything saying we need to run 4 moves, so I present to you a theorymon'd lead combo



Gothitelle @ Toxic Orb / Black Sludge
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Torment
- Dragon Rage
- Taunt
- Swagger



Aegislash @ Choice Band / Assault Vest
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Dragon Rage
- Toxic
- Swagger
- Rain Dance

If there is something against running 1 move instead of 4, replace Black Sludge on Aegislash with Choice Band and give it Swagger / Dragon Rage / Toxic / Rain Dance (low PP).
The idea is to Torment Aegislash so that it Struggles every other turn. Gothitelle is there to use Shadow Tag, preventing the foe from switching into something that can stop the strategy. Toxic Orb is the item of choice, as Goth is probably going to stay in for a while and Aegi can't Toxic Goth itself. Can work with whatever Pokemon you want, but I chose Aegislash because of its high attack / low defense in sword form, which should shift because of Drgon Rage. This maximizes confusion damage from Swagger.

The Eevee General said:
(another question... why'd you EV your Pokes? And Ninetales has 252 in 3 slots. Do we have to EV? And is there an Evasion clause or no?)
Click to expand...
Max Speed so you can be as fast as possible, and Max Attack maximizes confusion damage. Can't answer the other questions

EDIT: Four Move Clause - changed Aegislash to match this. Toxic is to Poison things, which makes Black Sludge an option to run since Aegislash can now poison it. Swagger is to confuse your team with powerful confusions. Finally, Rain Dance has 8 PP and prevents any Sandstorm shenanigans (Sandstorm is not really that viable, but hey 8 PP is the main appeal - the fact that it negates sandstorm, which Aegislash is immune to, is a neat side present)
 
Last edited:
aesf

aesf

Any thoughts on how this might work?

Swoobat @ Assault Vest
Ability: Klutz
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk (there's probably something i missed, but idk)
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Trick
- Magic Coat
- Toxic
- Dragon Rage

Tricking the assault vest is huge, due to the fact that they have to manually kill themselves off with dragon rage (or whatever ability they have). Pretty simple concept, although idk how this will work.
 

Perseu

Smeargle with Mean Look, Spore, Trick and something like heal pulse or seismic toss could be nice to lock opponent, then make it sleep, so you trick a leftovers into and seismic toss to hurr your friends or heal pulse to heal enemies?

Or this would only be effective in SC singles?

EDIT: dragon rage, duhh.
 
Adrian Marin

Adrian Marin

Just discovered one of the biggest threats in the meta:


Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Jolly Nature
IVs: null HP
- Trick
- Dragon Rage
- Taunt
- Substitute

Jynx is the fastest Pokemon with Oblivious. Oblivious grants the user an infatuation immunity and most importantly, an immunity to Taunt. Anything slower than Jynx can easily be tricked and crippled, for this reason, Mail + Follow Me wouldn't be such a bad strategy.

I'm also thinking of adding a 4 move clause. I don't really have trouble vs Torment but it's still quite strong and if I may say so myself, it is a mindless strategy. Magic Bounce Skill Swap + Stealth Rock also seems to be extremely powerful, I feel that banning Stealth Rock would allow more room for creativity in the SCD metagame.

Any thoughts regarding the suspects?
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Is it too gimmicky to Trick something lefties or Sitrus?

Also, did you know Sticky Barb reduces the holders HP by 12.5% vs Black Sludge's 6.25%? And it can be held by Poison-types. Since there aren't any physical attacks anymore, you don't have to worry about something else accidentally stealing it.

EDIT: nevermind, forgot about Black Sludge's other effect. The only thing Sticky Barb has on it is that Poison-types can hold it. bleh
 
AWailOfATail

AWailOfATail

viva la darmz
The SR suspect is rightly deserved. I mean, I used it a lot, and although it doesn't always work (due to Prankster Taunt and Defog), it is still a really valid strategy. Espeon and Xatu shouldn't, though. They do have some use. After all, if the combo is broken, we only really have to ban one.

I'm thinking about using a Lum Berry + Trick Infiltrator Chandy, so their last mon doesn't die... but depends on their last mon (like if its Solar Power Char)
 
Yayz

Yayz

Perseu said:
Smeargle with Mean Look, Spore, Trick and something like heal pulse or seismic toss could be nice to lock opponent, then make it sleep, so you trick a leftovers into and seismic toss to hurr your friends or heal pulse to heal enemies?

Or this would only be effective in SC singles?

EDIT: dragon rage, duhh.
Click to expand...
And Heal Pulse is banned.

Everyone: Please read the banlist before theorymonning. It's not even a long list.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I played 1.3 matches earlier and here's some stuff I tried that I liked:
  • Skill Swap Natural Cure Starmie w/ Trick Leftovers
  • Skill Swap Regenerator Audino (very Taunt weak)
  • Mental Herb Perish Song Altaria (with Cloud Nine for anti sun)--save it for when you're down to 2 and they can't phaze you out. You could also run it on Oblivious Jynx (hella versatile in this meta), but you're dead in 3 turns anyway so Black Sludge isn't too important
Also, a big fatty with Pain Split is very anti-Meta and could really keep screwing over the opponent. Giratina (didn't see an Ubers clause) has the best Speed of anything with Pain Split and massive HP (if not allowed, Mew could work kinda). Just keep giving the opponent lots of HP and Roaring them out. Give it Leftovers, too, so it keeps regaining health over the length of the match. Then when it's the last one left on your team, Perish Song. I really thought it learned it. So, instead have your teammate destroy it somehow.

Another also, how does Destiny Bond work with allies?? Theoretically, you could just Dbond when you're about to die and have your ally hit you with Dragon Rage. I need to keep some of these to myself...
 
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