Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[SaveMeJebus]

Note that the usage stats I quoted were the January ones, so Kyurem hadn't really caught on then as much.

Jolly Hawlucha is certainly interesting, but its decrease in power may be fatal. In addition, typically when it tries to sweep, it'll have an unburden boost so the speed tiers for +2 Hawlucha are more important.

Jolly High Jump Kick will do about the same as Adamant Close Combat. I usually run HJK over CC do to the increase in power and also the crazy high number of priority users running around that tier.

It does lose out on some OHKOs one important one being Tornadus -T But being able to revenge Kill non Scarf or speed boosting Kartana is a big win

 

[pulsar512b]

Jolly High Jump Kick will do about the same as Adamant Close Combat. I usually run HJK over CC do to the increase in power and also the crazy high number of priority users running around that tier.

It does lose out on some OHKOs one important one being Tornadus -T But being able to revenge Kill non Scarf or speed boosting Kartana is a big win

But, then again, it's HJK :)
We all know the pain of missing a HJK at a crucial moment.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

But, then again, it's HJK :)
We all know the pain of missing a HJK at a crucial moment.

Its as bad as falling short of a KO with CC imo

 

[pulsar512b]

Its as bad as falling short of a KO wit CC imo

At least that's in your control (trying to chip it down, gameplans being able to plan around that fact, etc), while HJK misses are completely out of your control.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

At least that's in your control (trying to chip it down, gameplans being able to plan around that fact, etc), while HJK misses are completely out of your control.

You can't control when the opponent sends out their counter. A lot of USUM Hawlucha counter strategies revolved around keeping its counters at full health. Also, what you're saying can also be applied to Jolly Hawlucha so that kinda destroys your argument on that

 

[Hi I'm Kion]

First post on here.. I really think that Heatran is too much right now. Other meta games Tran has been able to be kept under control due to stuff like Rotom-W, a plethora of offensive waters like Mega Swampert or Ash Gren, or fat dragon types like the mega Latis. There's really no detriment to putting it on a team, especially due to how good stuff like Corv and Lando are right now, which basically invalidate its biggest weakness, leading me to believe that it is the #1 most splashable mon in OU right now, even more than Corv and Clef.

I understand that the best defense to a Heatran is not really giving it a chance to come in, but that's just not feasible in the meta game we're in right now. Rotom-W isn't particularly viable, Slowbrother variants lose due to running HDB combined with minimal chip, leaving the only real Magma Storm (+taunt, earth power, toxic shenanigans) switch ins in the tier to be Fini, Pelipper, Urshifu (kind of), and Altaria (just kidding guys), and the only one of these that I really find viable is Fini (Pelipper is obviously viable, but it has to be built around and thus cannot be established as an effective check). Even Tyranitar can be played around effectively if you manage sand turns and pivot to the aforementioned ambivalent flying types that are so commonly paired with Tran. Of course, Heatran is a switch in to itself, but we all know the tomfoolery that ensues with that as an argument.

I'm not trying to rally support for a Heatran ban, but I'm just sharing my opinion that I think it's too strong in the current meta game, and encourage productive discussion. Is the defensive Dragonite set the answer we need? I don't know, I haven't really messed around with it yet. Just wanted to share my two cents.

 

[YeetYolk07]

First post on here.. I really think that Heatran is too much right now. Other meta games Tran has been able to be kept under control due to stuff like Rotom-W, a plethora of offensive waters like Mega Swampert or Ash Gren, or fat dragon types like the mega Latis. There's really no detriment to putting it on a team, especially due to how good stuff like Corv and Lando are right now, which basically invalidate its biggest weakness, leading me to believe that it is the #1 most splashable mon in OU right now, even more than Corv and Clef.

I understand that the best defense to a Heatran is not really giving it a chance to come in, but that's just not feasible in the meta game we're in right now. Rotom-W isn't particularly viable, Slowbrother variants lose due to running HDB combined with minimal chip, leaving the only real Magma Storm (+taunt, earth power, toxic shenanigans) switch ins in the tier to be Fini, Pelipper, Urshifu (kind of), and Altaria (just kidding guys), and the only one of these that I really find viable is Fini (Pelipper is obviously viable, but it has to be built around and thus cannot be established as an effective check). Even Tyranitar can be played around effectively if you manage sand turns and pivot to the aforementioned ambivalent flying types that are so commonly paired with Tran. Of course, Heatran is a switch in to itself, but we all know the tomfoolery that ensues with that as an argument.

I'm not trying to rally support for a Heatran ban, but I'm just sharing my opinion that I think it's too strong in the current meta game, and encourage productive discussion. Is the defensive Dragonite set the answer we need? I don't know, I haven't really messed around with it yet. Just wanted to share my two cents.

With the magearna and cinderace ban, the latis have become a lot more viable now. I think this will be enough to keep heatran in check considering they threaten it with strong fighting coverage and eat up most of it's hits. Plus latias will normally run roost so it can usually pp stall the magma storms. Toxic is an issue however for these guys.


252+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 72-84 (23.9 - 27.9%) -- 82.4% chance to 3HKO after trapping damage


252+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 82-97 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage

Heatran is very splashable right now, but I don't think it's broken. It should be on watch but right now we just quickbanned 2 major threats so I don't think this will happen soon. However I agree we should keep a check on it.

 

[AM]

Heatrans usage and win rate doesnt exceed anything above most of the other top tiers which some are even more constraining to account for (Dragapult, Chomp, etc). Rotom-W isn't a bad mon the bans of Cinderace and Mag will allow more options to deal with it as well, where Mag destroyed most bulkier waters and Cind forced the use of the same specific ones. There are valid checks and counterplays to it unless you're running a really slow build, which at that point you're accepting certain matchup losses. Understandably it's a vocal minority that complains about Heatran constantly but this is definitely one of the times some meta settling will help to see what are the upcoming/main issues that may or may not develop.

 

[glava222]

leaving the only real Magma Storm (+taunt, earth power, toxic shenanigans) switch ins in the tier to be Fini, Pelipper, Urshifu (kind of), and Altaria (just kidding guys), and the only one of these that I really find viable is Fini (Pelipper is obviously viable, but it has to be built around and thus cannot be established as an effective check)

stares in dragonite

 

[musiquepkmn]

First post on here.. I really think that Heatran is too much right now. Other meta games Tran has been able to be kept under control due to stuff like Rotom-W, a plethora of offensive waters like Mega Swampert or Ash Gren, or fat dragon types like the mega Latis. There's really no detriment to putting it on a team, especially due to how good stuff like Corv and Lando are right now, which basically invalidate its biggest weakness, leading me to believe that it is the #1 most splashable mon in OU right now, even more than Corv and Clef.

I understand that the best defense to a Heatran is not really giving it a chance to come in, but that's just not feasible in the meta game we're in right now. Rotom-W isn't particularly viable, Slowbrother variants lose due to running HDB combined with minimal chip, leaving the only real Magma Storm (+taunt, earth power, toxic shenanigans) switch ins in the tier to be Fini, Pelipper, Urshifu (kind of), and Altaria (just kidding guys), and the only one of these that I really find viable is Fini (Pelipper is obviously viable, but it has to be built around and thus cannot be established as an effective check). Even Tyranitar can be played around effectively if you manage sand turns and pivot to the aforementioned ambivalent flying types that are so commonly paired with Tran. Of course, Heatran is a switch in to itself, but we all know the tomfoolery that ensues with that as an argument.

I'm not trying to rally support for a Heatran ban, but I'm just sharing my opinion that I think it's too strong in the current meta game, and encourage productive discussion. Is the defensive Dragonite set the answer we need? I don't know, I haven't really messed around with it yet. Just wanted to share my two cents.

defensive dragonite is an excellent answer, but it's not perfect. It's incredibly susceptible to Toxic Tran, the most offensively potent variant, and if it runs Heal Bell it only has 8pp and has to waste a turn every time trying to heal. If it runs Heal Bell, it's also giving up valuable utility otherwise, be it Defog, Haze, Toxic, Extremespeed, or the rarer ice punch/fire punch. Not to mention that one of Heatran's best partners in crime is Rillaboom, who draws in and Knocks Off the Dragonite, and slowly chips it down and breaks its multiscale. If the RillaTran core user has a Pressure Corv in the back, those 8 Heal Bell PP and 16 Roost PP are gonna run out real quick.

In general, Heatran is impossible to really keep under hold unless you are using your own Air Balloon Tran, and it's really the biggest thorn in the sides of the slower teams. As the above posters said, it really shouldn't be looked at atm, as it's not egregious, but it'll take time and experience for us to figure out if its downsides, being the 8pp and 75% accuracy of Magma Storm along with Heatrans low recovery ability and susceptibility to entry hazards will counter its strong offensive presence.

I'm really liking Magnezone Spikes teams atm, which trap and remove corv to lay spikes, so if those continue to rise up then Tran may not be as much of a problem.

stares in dragonite

they mentioned dragonite in the next paragraph, and how they had not had experience with it yet.

 

[glava222]

they mentioned dragonite in the next paragraph, and how they had not had experience with it yet.

I'm dumb, sry. but yh it's an amazing heatran answer. Toxicing it is a real option, but one I feel is overstated, because dragonite doesn't really need multiscale to stuff heatran the whole game, and it can also pack heal bell if necessary. Now don't take this as an advice to just eat toxics left and right, but if you see that heatran is the biggest threat to your team, it is absolutely fine to keep dragonite on hard heatran duty, which basically ensures heatran never gets much done.

This is actually one of the main reasons I constantly advocate for dragonite to be used as a sort of a defensive anchor/band aid on stall, because it has such a good MU vs one of the most dangerous threats to stall, as well as having other great niches like walling the grass bros, defog, heal bell... it's just extremely versatile both in game and builder

 

[TPP]

February usage stats are here! I went ahead and made another visual, two actually, with the first one being the list of mons in the order of their usage, and the second one showing increases and decreases and how many ranks they moved. Everything on the visual had at least 4.52% usage, I'm not an expert at making these, so apologies if some areas look less neat than others. If you guys like what I did with the 2nd visual, then I'm more than happy to do it again in the future. Here's a link to the previous month's usage stats if you guys wanted to compare/contrast them.

Visual

Visual with changes

Stats

 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- +
 | Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   |
 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- +
 | 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 38.65590% | 
 | 2    | Dragapult          | 22.45626% |
 | 3    | Heatran            | 19.74234% |
 | 4    | Toxapex            | 19.36060% |
 | 5    | Ferrothorn         | 19.07870% |
 | 6    | Cinderace          | 18.56871% |
 | 7    | Magearna           | 18.46622% |
 | 8    | Garchomp           | 18.31302% |
 | 9    | Rillaboom          | 17.77620% |
 | 10   | Clefable           | 17.52802% |
 | 11   | Corviknight        | 16.54189% |
 | 12   | Slowbro            | 14.79826% |
 | 13   | Tapu Koko          | 12.34983% |
 | 14   | Kartana            | 12.12107% |
 | 15   | Mandibuzz          | 12.01442% |
 | 16   | Zapdos             | 11.52939% |
 | 17   | Tornadus-Therian   | 10.62877% |
 | 18   | Tapu Lele          | 10.34381% |
 | 19   | Slowking-Galar     | 10.16865% |
 | 20   | Hydreigon          |  9.40940% |
 | 21   | Blissey            |  9.39204% |
 | 22   | Kyurem             |  8.60526% |
 | 23   | Excadrill          |  8.51503% |
 | 24   | Hippowdon          |  8.39026% |
 | 25   | Tapu Fini          |  8.07120% |
 | 26   | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike |  7.89621% |
 | 27   | Melmetal           |  7.50024% |
 | 28   | Swampert           |  7.41215% |
 | 29   | Volcarona          |  7.27302% |
 | 30   | Tyranitar          |  7.15645% |
 | 31   | Dragonite          |  6.81035% |
 | 32   | Slowking           |  6.16649% |
 | 33   | Nidoking           |  5.96251% |
 | 34   | Regieleki          |  5.94085% |
 | 35   | Pelipper           |  5.48528% |
 | 36   | Zeraora            |  5.32335% |
 | 37   | Hawlucha           |  5.09652% |
 | 38   | Magnezone          |  4.82695% |
 | 39   | Skarmory           |  4.69183% |
 | 40   | Latios             |  4.20378% |
 | 41   | Moltres            |  4.17652% |
 | 42   | Zapdos-Galar       |  4.15520% |
 | 43   | Weavile            |  3.98297% |
 | 44   | Crawdaunt          |  3.97509% |
 | 45   | Aegislash          |  3.91267% |
 | 46   | Bisharp            |  3.84983% |
 | 47   | Mew                |  3.18395% |
 | 48   | Barraskewda        |  3.15892% |
 | 49   | Blaziken           |  3.15321% |
 | 50   | Tangrowth          |  3.13256% |
 | 51   | Victini            |  2.84220% |
 | 52   | Azumarill          |  2.66999% |
 | 53   | Mamoswine          |  2.30297% |
 | 54   | Blacephalon        |  2.28104% |
 | 55   | Scizor             |  2.21576% |
 | 56   | Seismitoad         |  2.18003% |
 | 57   | Reuniclus          |  2.17026% |
 | 58   | Buzzwole           |  2.04548% |
 | 59   | Dracozolt          |  1.99435% |
 | 60   | Kommo-o            |  1.95187% |
 | 61   | Cloyster           |  1.95156% |
 | 62   | Gastrodon          |  1.88780% |
 | 63   | Keldeo             |  1.85739% |
 | 64   | Gengar             |  1.80459% |
 | 65   | Chansey            |  1.79688% |
 | 66   | Latias             |  1.76720% |
 | 67   | Togekiss           |  1.75692% |
 | 68   | Quagsire           |  1.75068% |
 | 69   | Obstagoon          |  1.72030% |
 | 70   | Spectrier          |  1.68226% |
 | 71   | Jirachi            |  1.65745% |
 | 72   | Rotom-Wash         |  1.59756% |
 | 73   | Ninetales-Alola    |  1.58046% |
 | 74   | Torkoal            |  1.34807% |
 | 75   | Suicune            |  1.29661% |
 | 76   | Celesteela         |  1.28754% |
 | 77   | Moltres-Galar      |  1.27471% |
 | 78   | Kingdra            |  1.24537% |
 | 79   | Krookodile         |  1.22250% |
 | 80   | Amoonguss          |  1.17323% |
 | 81   | Grimmsnarl         |  1.14401% |
 | 82   | Hatterene          |  1.13129% |
 | 83   | Thundurus-Therian  |  1.11884% |
 | 84   | Diggersby          |  1.09696% |
 | 85   | Rhyperior          |  1.09217% |
 | 86   | Salamence          |  1.07927% |
 | 87   | Ditto              |  1.06571% |
 | 88   | Umbreon            |  0.98681% |
 | 89   | Rotom-Heat         |  0.95214% |
 | 90   | Tapu Bulu          |  0.95087% |
 | 91   | Zarude             |  0.90162% |
 | 92   | Marowak-Alola      |  0.88278% |
 | 93   | Alakazam           |  0.84206% |
 | 94   | Gyarados           |  0.80832% |
 | 95   | Venusaur           |  0.78387% |
 | 96   | Primarina          |  0.77006% |
 | 97   | Arctozolt          |  0.70046% |
 | 98   | Volcanion          |  0.69617% |
 | 99   | Terrakion          |  0.67271% |
 | 100  | Conkeldurr         |  0.65009% |
 | 101  | Toxtricity         |  0.62322% |
 | 102  | Shuckle            |  0.61710% |
 | 103  | Nihilego           |  0.57101% |
 | 104  | Shedinja           |  0.56210% |
 | 105  | Porygon2           |  0.53595% |
 | 106  | Cresselia          |  0.50378% |
 | 107  | Sandaconda         |  0.50256% |
 | 108  | Snorlax            |  0.49111% |
 | 109  | Necrozma           |  0.45953% |
 | 110  | Glastrier          |  0.45847% |
 | 111  | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.43500% |
 | 112  | Porygon-Z          |  0.42725% |
 | 113  | Sylveon            |  0.42001% |
 | 114  | Azelf              |  0.39789% |
 | 115  | Exploud            |  0.39073% |
 | 116  | Darmanitan         |  0.37184% |
 | 117  | Jellicent          |  0.35148% |
 | 118  | Mimikyu            |  0.34904% |
 | 119  | Inteleon           |  0.34563% |
 | 120  | Ribombee           |  0.31429% |
 | 121  | Regidrago          |  0.31197% |
 | 122  | Charizard          |  0.30735% |
 | 123  | Goodra             |  0.29586% |
 | 124  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.29093% |
 | 125  | Slurpuff           |  0.28890% |
 | 126  | Polteageist        |  0.28591% |
 | 127  | Nidoqueen          |  0.28154% |
 | 128  | Xatu               |  0.26275% |
 | 129  | Starmie            |  0.26234% |
 | 130  | Gigalith           |  0.25403% |
 | 131  | Vanilluxe          |  0.25225% |
 | 132  | Scolipede          |  0.25158% |
 | 133  | Salazzle           |  0.24732% |
 | 134  | Heracross          |  0.24519% |
 | 135  | Incineroar         |  0.24457% |
 | 136  | Audino             |  0.24378% |
 | 137  | Tyrantrum          |  0.23743% |
 | 138  | Pyukumuku          |  0.23664% |
 | 139  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.23240% |
 | 140  | Registeel          |  0.22837% |
 | 141  | Klefki             |  0.22621% |
 | 142  | Whimsicott         |  0.19960% |
 | 143  | Araquanid          |  0.19930% |
 | 144  | Golurk             |  0.19447% |
 | 145  | Regigigas          |  0.19323% |
 | 146  | Pangoro            |  0.19305% |
 | 147  | Stakataka          |  0.18573% |
 | 148  | Espeon             |  0.18363% |
 | 149  | Aerodactyl         |  0.18064% |
 | 150  | Zoroark            |  0.17948% |
 | 151  | Raikou             |  0.17325% |
 | 152  | Weezing-Galar      |  0.17017% |
 | 153  | Milotic            |  0.16548% |
 | 154  | Xurkitree          |  0.16536% |
 | 155  | Sandslash-Alola    |  0.16103% |
 | 156  | Cinccino           |  0.16026% |
 | 157  | Haxorus            |  0.15941% |
 | 158  | Zygarde-10%        |  0.15536% |
 | 159  | Vaporeon           |  0.15448% |
 | 160  | Metagross          |  0.15208% |
 | 161  | Tornadus           |  0.15186% |
 | 162  | Indeedee           |  0.15175% |
 | 163  | Thundurus          |  0.14971% |
 | 164  | Omastar            |  0.14966% |
 | 165  | Gardevoir          |  0.14376% |
 | 166  | Stunfisk           |  0.14262% |
 | 167  | Lycanroc-Midnight  |  0.13988% |
 | 168  | Tentacruel         |  0.13876% |
 | 169  | Aggron             |  0.13508% |
 | 170  | Drampa             |  0.13266% |
 | 171  | Uxie               |  0.12547% |
 | 172  | Froslass           |  0.12499% |
 | 173  | Roserade           |  0.12349% |
 | 174  | Sigilyph           |  0.12319% |
 | 175  | Runerigus          |  0.12081% |
 | 176  | Corsola-Galar      |  0.12006% |
 | 177  | Ninetales          |  0.11721% |
 | 178  | Lucario            |  0.11454% |
 | 179  | Mantine            |  0.11296% |
 | 180  | Chandelure         |  0.11261% |
 | 181  | Blastoise          |  0.10825% |
 | 182  | Arctovish          |  0.10771% |

Obviously with the recent bans of Cinderace and Magearna, the metagame has changed tremendously, and there's a lot to talk about it. I'll go ahead and leave some questions as usual for you guys to discuss:

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)

As always, if you have any feedback or any questions, you're more than welcome to PM me or another moderator.

 

[pulsar512b]

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)

As always, if you have any feedback or any questions, you're more than welcome to PM me or another moderator.

1. Kyurem. Literally everyone knows this, but tldr: two big threats disappearing, good for it.
Slowbro decreased, probably bc w/o Cinderace, other options for similar roles become more attractive.
Rillaboom just confuses me- it lost 2 big problems!
2. Dragapult, I guess there's something with Spectrier being gone, but this much?
3. Specs Kyurem (you want to run Timid)
4. Standard Slowbro and Rillaboom sets :)
5. Rillaboom, Kyurem, Slowbro (still), Blissey
6. Rillaboom and Kyurem
7. Dragapult
8. Bliss+Bro is the main one I've been forcing on every team
9. Not great, but ok. Garchomp feels like the biggest issue rn, as scale shot makes for an exceedingly threatening sweeper that's near-impossible to deal with defensively
10. you too TPP thanks for everything

 

[robynxyamada]

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
Easily Dragapult, figured this was gonna rise with no Spectrier and in glad it has

2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
Kind of surprised Tyranitat dropped but I guess Hippowdon is just better for the meta

3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
Since Cindeace got banned (a little sad about that) I've been using Heatran as a new fire type replacement and found some good success with it
Been running standard offensive
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
Really been trying to run tyranitar as sand setup (EVs and moveset prob aren't optimal but I'm trying to figure it out)
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
- Crunch
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
Currently its probably Heatran

6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
Dragapult really hits so much that its gonna see sustained usage i think

7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
Not a huge drop but I feel both Slowbro and
Galar-Slowking are gonna drop a little bit

8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
I'm getting some decent results with Tapu Lee + Tyranitar + Excadrill

9. How do you feel about the metagame?
Its ok, I think its more experimental than it was with Cinderace and Magearna and still kind of bummed about the ace ban

10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)
You too and thanks

 

[Lando-San]

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)

1.- In increases, of course. checked it pretty well, and it could be used as setup fodder and was always with the threat of Sucker Punch, annoying a lot this mon. As for decreases, and are pretty obvious, as they lost Spectrier, but they could rise on the future as they despise a lot Magearna and Cinderace, and they can be explored more on other fashions outside of more defensive sets.
2.- , and . I knew those mons were going to climb, but I didn't expect that much, especially with and .
3.- Specs and . Also, I tried NP with Weather Ball in sand and it was great to dispatch for .
4.- CB is a fucking menace if played correctly, especially with U-turn support from the likes of Tornadus-T, who always draws-in birds or Teleport from Slowtwins, which alongside Future Sight make this thing a monster so though to switch-in. If I recall correctly, there aren't Pokemon in OU that resists both of its STABs, which can always put the opposing side in bad spots. It can deal a ton of damage to common birds on the metagame like Corviknight and Skarmory without needing to predict (or waste PPs of) the Stone Edge because Fire Punch 2HKO after rocks, and even defensive Landorus-T can be OHKOed by Stone Edge if it crits lol. This opens the way for our boy Excadrill to wreak havoc, as CB Tyranitar can take out every single check it has in the game like Corviknight, Skarmory, Zapdos, Moltres, Landorus-T and Slowbro. Last slot is upon your preference: EQ for Heatran, and Superpower can be used to hit Ferrothorn in rain, as well as for Heatran. It also is the best bet of Tyranitar against Melmetal looking to take a Stone Edge, dealing solid 78% to common sets. Try it, it is heat as hell with good support.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake / Superpower​

5.- , and .
6.- , , and .
7.- I can see a bit less of usage of and , but if continue to taking the tier by storm, those mons will rise as a blanket checks for common sets like Specs and DD.
8.- Since I play sand the most, my common cores are + + / . Also i tried + + and it gave decent results. It is most likely to have some Water resist and a Grass resist, if not rain and Rillaboom destroy teams.
9.- I feel pretty good about the metagame. I feel like there are not overbearing threats, maybe Scale Shot , and , but in general lines, you can find defensive or offensive counterplay more easily compared with Cinderace or Magearna. I think the metagame is very healthy right now.
10. I hope you have a good day too!

 

[658Greninja]

February usage stats are here! I went ahead and made another visual, two actually, with the first one being the list of mons in the order of their usage, and the second one showing increases and decreases and how many ranks they moved. Everything on the visual had at least 4.52% usage, I'm not an expert at making these, so apologies if some areas look less neat than others. If you guys like what I did with the 2nd visual, then I'm more than happy to do it again in the future. Here's a link to the previous month's usage stats if you guys wanted to compare/contrast them.

Visual

Visual with changes

Stats

 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- +
| 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 38.65590% |
| 2    | Dragapult          | 22.45626% |
| 3    | Heatran            | 19.74234% |
| 4    | Toxapex            | 19.36060% |
| 5    | Ferrothorn         | 19.07870% |
| 6    | Cinderace          | 18.56871% |
| 7    | Magearna           | 18.46622% |
| 8    | Garchomp           | 18.31302% |
| 9    | Rillaboom          | 17.77620% |
| 10   | Clefable           | 17.52802% |
| 11   | Corviknight        | 16.54189% |
| 12   | Slowbro            | 14.79826% |
| 13   | Tapu Koko          | 12.34983% |
| 14   | Kartana            | 12.12107% |
| 15   | Mandibuzz          | 12.01442% |
| 16   | Zapdos             | 11.52939% |
| 17   | Tornadus-Therian   | 10.62877% |
| 18   | Tapu Lele          | 10.34381% |
| 19   | Slowking-Galar     | 10.16865% |
| 20   | Hydreigon          |  9.40940% |
| 21   | Blissey            |  9.39204% |
| 22   | Kyurem             |  8.60526% |
| 23   | Excadrill          |  8.51503% |
| 24   | Hippowdon          |  8.39026% |
| 25   | Tapu Fini          |  8.07120% |
| 26   | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike |  7.89621% |
| 27   | Melmetal           |  7.50024% |
| 28   | Swampert           |  7.41215% |
| 29   | Volcarona          |  7.27302% |
| 30   | Tyranitar          |  7.15645% |
| 31   | Dragonite          |  6.81035% |
| 32   | Slowking           |  6.16649% |
| 33   | Nidoking           |  5.96251% |
| 34   | Regieleki          |  5.94085% |
| 35   | Pelipper           |  5.48528% |
| 36   | Zeraora            |  5.32335% |
| 37   | Hawlucha           |  5.09652% |
| 38   | Magnezone          |  4.82695% |
| 39   | Skarmory           |  4.69183% |
| 40   | Latios             |  4.20378% |
| 41   | Moltres            |  4.17652% |
| 42   | Zapdos-Galar       |  4.15520% |
| 43   | Weavile            |  3.98297% |
| 44   | Crawdaunt          |  3.97509% |
| 45   | Aegislash          |  3.91267% |
| 46   | Bisharp            |  3.84983% |
| 47   | Mew                |  3.18395% |
| 48   | Barraskewda        |  3.15892% |
| 49   | Blaziken           |  3.15321% |
| 50   | Tangrowth          |  3.13256% |
| 51   | Victini            |  2.84220% |
| 52   | Azumarill          |  2.66999% |
| 53   | Mamoswine          |  2.30297% |
| 54   | Blacephalon        |  2.28104% |
| 55   | Scizor             |  2.21576% |
| 56   | Seismitoad         |  2.18003% |
| 57   | Reuniclus          |  2.17026% |
| 58   | Buzzwole           |  2.04548% |
| 59   | Dracozolt          |  1.99435% |
| 60   | Kommo-o            |  1.95187% |
| 61   | Cloyster           |  1.95156% |
| 62   | Gastrodon          |  1.88780% |
| 63   | Keldeo             |  1.85739% |
| 64   | Gengar             |  1.80459% |
| 65   | Chansey            |  1.79688% |
| 66   | Latias             |  1.76720% |
| 67   | Togekiss           |  1.75692% |
| 68   | Quagsire           |  1.75068% |
| 69   | Obstagoon          |  1.72030% |
| 70   | Spectrier          |  1.68226% |
| 71   | Jirachi            |  1.65745% |
| 72   | Rotom-Wash         |  1.59756% |
| 73   | Ninetales-Alola    |  1.58046% |
| 74   | Torkoal            |  1.34807% |
| 75   | Suicune            |  1.29661% |
| 76   | Celesteela         |  1.28754% |
| 77   | Moltres-Galar      |  1.27471% |
| 78   | Kingdra            |  1.24537% |
| 79   | Krookodile         |  1.22250% |
| 80   | Amoonguss          |  1.17323% |
| 81   | Grimmsnarl         |  1.14401% |
| 82   | Hatterene          |  1.13129% |
| 83   | Thundurus-Therian  |  1.11884% |
| 84   | Diggersby          |  1.09696% |
| 85   | Rhyperior          |  1.09217% |
| 86   | Salamence          |  1.07927% |
| 87   | Ditto              |  1.06571% |
| 88   | Umbreon            |  0.98681% |
| 89   | Rotom-Heat         |  0.95214% |
| 90   | Tapu Bulu          |  0.95087% |
| 91   | Zarude             |  0.90162% |
| 92   | Marowak-Alola      |  0.88278% |
| 93   | Alakazam           |  0.84206% |
| 94   | Gyarados           |  0.80832% |
| 95   | Venusaur           |  0.78387% |
| 96   | Primarina          |  0.77006% |
| 97   | Arctozolt          |  0.70046% |
| 98   | Volcanion          |  0.69617% |
| 99   | Terrakion          |  0.67271% |
| 100  | Conkeldurr         |  0.65009% |
| 101  | Toxtricity         |  0.62322% |
| 102  | Shuckle            |  0.61710% |
| 103  | Nihilego           |  0.57101% |
| 104  | Shedinja           |  0.56210% |
| 105  | Porygon2           |  0.53595% |
| 106  | Cresselia          |  0.50378% |
| 107  | Sandaconda         |  0.50256% |
| 108  | Snorlax            |  0.49111% |
| 109  | Necrozma           |  0.45953% |
| 110  | Glastrier          |  0.45847% |
| 111  | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.43500% |
| 112  | Porygon-Z          |  0.42725% |
| 113  | Sylveon            |  0.42001% |
| 114  | Azelf              |  0.39789% |
| 115  | Exploud            |  0.39073% |
| 116  | Darmanitan         |  0.37184% |
| 117  | Jellicent          |  0.35148% |
| 118  | Mimikyu            |  0.34904% |
| 119  | Inteleon           |  0.34563% |
| 120  | Ribombee           |  0.31429% |
| 121  | Regidrago          |  0.31197% |
| 122  | Charizard          |  0.30735% |
| 123  | Goodra             |  0.29586% |
| 124  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.29093% |
| 125  | Slurpuff           |  0.28890% |
| 126  | Polteageist        |  0.28591% |
| 127  | Nidoqueen          |  0.28154% |
| 128  | Xatu               |  0.26275% |
| 129  | Starmie            |  0.26234% |
| 130  | Gigalith           |  0.25403% |
| 131  | Vanilluxe          |  0.25225% |
| 132  | Scolipede          |  0.25158% |
| 133  | Salazzle           |  0.24732% |
| 134  | Heracross          |  0.24519% |
| 135  | Incineroar         |  0.24457% |
| 136  | Audino             |  0.24378% |
| 137  | Tyrantrum          |  0.23743% |
| 138  | Pyukumuku          |  0.23664% |
| 139  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.23240% |
| 140  | Registeel          |  0.22837% |
| 141  | Klefki             |  0.22621% |
| 142  | Whimsicott         |  0.19960% |
| 143  | Araquanid          |  0.19930% |
| 144  | Golurk             |  0.19447% |
| 145  | Regigigas          |  0.19323% |
| 146  | Pangoro            |  0.19305% |
| 147  | Stakataka          |  0.18573% |
| 148  | Espeon             |  0.18363% |
| 149  | Aerodactyl         |  0.18064% |
| 150  | Zoroark            |  0.17948% |
| 151  | Raikou             |  0.17325% |
| 152  | Weezing-Galar      |  0.17017% |
| 153  | Milotic            |  0.16548% |
| 154  | Xurkitree          |  0.16536% |
| 155  | Sandslash-Alola    |  0.16103% |
| 156  | Cinccino           |  0.16026% |
| 157  | Haxorus            |  0.15941% |
| 158  | Zygarde-10%        |  0.15536% |
| 159  | Vaporeon           |  0.15448% |
| 160  | Metagross          |  0.15208% |
| 161  | Tornadus           |  0.15186% |
| 162  | Indeedee           |  0.15175% |
| 163  | Thundurus          |  0.14971% |
| 164  | Omastar            |  0.14966% |
| 165  | Gardevoir          |  0.14376% |
| 166  | Stunfisk           |  0.14262% |
| 167  | Lycanroc-Midnight  |  0.13988% |
| 168  | Tentacruel         |  0.13876% |
| 169  | Aggron             |  0.13508% |
| 170  | Drampa             |  0.13266% |
| 171  | Uxie               |  0.12547% |
| 172  | Froslass           |  0.12499% |
| 173  | Roserade           |  0.12349% |
| 174  | Sigilyph           |  0.12319% |
| 175  | Runerigus          |  0.12081% |
| 176  | Corsola-Galar      |  0.12006% |
| 177  | Ninetales          |  0.11721% |
| 178  | Lucario            |  0.11454% |
| 179  | Mantine            |  0.11296% |
| 180  | Chandelure         |  0.11261% |
| 181  | Blastoise          |  0.10825% |
| 182  | Arctovish          |  0.10771% |

Obviously with the recent bans of Cinderace and Magearna, the metagame has changed tremendously, and there's a lot to talk about it. I'll go ahead and leave some questions as usual for you guys to discuss:

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)

As always, if you have any feedback or any questions, you're more than welcome to PM me or another moderator.

1: What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?

+15 Increase
Pult to me is a bit reminiscent to Zam in BW OU. Fantastic cleaner and being one of the fastest mons in the tier, but may not like taking hits. The ban of Spectrier really helped Pult make a comeback as the King of Ghosts. A prime example on why Ghost is one of the best offensive typings in SS.

-8 Decrease
The ban to Spectrier made it obvious that Ttar was gonna lose usage. Not only that, but SpD Hippo has been more useful on Sand to deter Zera, Koko, and even tank a hit from strong asf Lele and Toxic it in a pinch. It’s not the end of the world however. Mag and Ace, the mons that forced it out the most are now banned, and experimentation on more offensive Ttar might be something Ttar needs to boost up.

2: What increases or decreases surprised you the most?

Seeing how amazing Voltturn was in Ace/Mag meta, it surprised me that these two actually dropped in usage slightly. Zapdos was able to punish Ace U-Turn with Static and had enough bulk to shrug off a hit or two. Slowbro was the perfect Ace partner as it crippled most of Ace’s checks with FS.

3: Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?

Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Defog/Heal Bell
- Ice Beam/Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Roost

This set is better than DDnite rn imo. The amount of utility it provides is excellent for how many things it can check like Kart, Tran, Lando, Rillaboom, Zone, etc. Multiscale means little to nothing can OHKO it at full. It’s great when paired with steels like Tran or Scizor on Balance/BO teams. Just be wary that it can sack alot of momentum for you.

4: Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?


Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Lash Out/Crunch
- Superpower
- Earthquake

Band Ttar is the future. I ran this on a sand team and it’s so fun to just hit shit except Tang and Skarm with it’s obsurd 134 Atk stat and coverage. Lash Out is for murdering Lando on the switch but Crunch is better in most other situations. Pair this bad boy with NP Torn + slow pivots and your gonna be cracking open balance like an Exeggcute

5: What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?

These two speed demons are so satisfying to play around with. I never get bored of using NP Torn or Specs Pult. They not only provide speed control but they can absolutely break holes in the opponents team. So easy to splash while feeling good when pressing buttons with them.

6: What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?

No Ace and Mag = More monke.
More monke = More birb

7: What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?

Slowking has a better mu vs up and rising threats like Kyurem, Hydreigon, Lele, Koko, etc. Slowbro will only drop slightly as it’s still one or the best soft checks to SD Chomp, and FS + Port is still busted.

8: What are some of your favorite cores to use?

Remember this core back in pre-DLC meta, well it’s back, only now these two aren’t busted anymore. It’s a plain, simple, but effective offensive core. Zera lures in the grounds which let’s you double into Kyurem and break something in half. Or Kyurem takes out the grounds, leading to a late game clean from Zera. Pair them with some nice defensive backbones and you should be good to go.

9: How do you feel about the metagame?

For the first time in SS OU history, it doesn’t feel restraining to teambuild anymore. No more shitty Clef/Corv/Pex cores and op Conk in pre-DLC. No more stupid bears forcing PexClef on every team in DLC1. No more rabbits, roaches, or horses in DLC2. Teambuilding has never been more interesting and innovative. There are many cool sets/underrated mons to explore from now on like Heattom, Weavile, and more. Also just seeing Kyurem, Hydreigon, Zeraora, Nidoking, Swampert, Dnite, Scizor, and Latios becoming OU staples for the first time or OU staples after years of being left out is a sight to see. Cheers for SS OU.

10: I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)

You too.

 

[Red Raven]

Obviously with the recent bans of Cinderace and Magearna, the metagame has changed tremendously, and there's a lot to talk about it. I'll go ahead and leave some questions as usual for you guys to discuss:

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)

As always, if you have any feedback or any questions, you're more than welcome to PM me or another moderator.

1. . This one was predicted to rise already with how it is the fastest mon in the tier

and These two are the same story. It's just a massive pain in the ass to switch into

is probably the one I'm surprised the most since like every two games I run into one but then again, that was after the bunny bans and this usage stats seem to have the bunnies

2. 's decrease in usage considering how badly sd scale shot rips thru the tier

's increase was surprising. I knew that once ghost horse leaves it would rise in usage but I didn't expect it to be this high

water is probably the most surprising for me. Bulky grasses are still in high demand to slow down the gorilla and the shark so why did this thing's usage suddenly skyrocket? And Toxapex still exists so

3. With , I've been spamming sub wisp hex draco, or Hexapult as I like to call it. It's just so hilarious to use

I've been using expert belt on and whenever I use them because I hate how the game basically becomes a fifty fifty when using choice specs. At least this way I bluff a choice scarf

On , I just use max hp max def. Have to keep control a certain gorilla and shark

Lastly, I've just been using the standard set on . For as long as I have Tyranitar, this is a perfect mon for my sand team

4. with veil sd scale shot and earthquake, its most dangerous set and I will fight anyone to the death who says otherwise. This mon is just so much fun when not only do my opponent have to chain multiple stone edge accuracy moves but could lose the duel if one even misses and Garchomp isn't even that helpless even if the rng hates it

I've also been using my adamant dd every now and then when I am not try harding to win. It's completely unexpected and can suddenly rip apart teams

With , I've just been using it's standard max hp max def set with heat wave discharge defog and roost. I always pair this with Tangrowth as it is allergic to knock off

Lastly, I love the spikes roost body press and brave bird set on . It just pairs so well with Excadrill's rapid spin

These are the ones that I use since I don't really use that many mons at all. The same goes for the previous question

5. Focus sash . This is by far my favorite mon at the moment. It just saves me from all the bullshit in the tier like Blaziken or Aegislash and even Rillaboom. Seriously, what in the hell is fire chicken and sword doing on my screen? These mons were practically non existent and in one day I've encounted each of them at least three times. Even Galarian Zapdos keeps popping up from time to time. Jesus

is my number two favorite mon to use. Whenever I need try to use another sweeper for my team, Garchomp just goes 'you could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me'

. The Ocelzolt set is just a massive beast. I've been spamming sand as it's the only play style that doesn't get me that tilted and this mon just drops things left and right. Sometimes my Garchomp and Excadrill doesn't even have to do anything as Ocelzolt is basically Mega Medicham, choose which mon are you gonna offer up as sacrifice

is another favorite mon of mine. I like creepy stuff so when I started playing gen eight after crown tundra dropped I knew that I just had to use this. While I did mostly use the horse, once it was gone, I finally had the reason to use this

is the last mon I'm gonna list otherwise I would be here to long. While I love the dd set I've been spamming, I've been using this lately as more of a support mon as Volcarona is just bullshit and apparently I'm the only one who thinks boots should be banned

6. and as they are probably the two most difficult mons to switch into
is the next one I expect to see increased usage as it checks most of the fast threats with its own faster speed

because this thing is an absolute nightmare to switch into. What was gamefreak thinking when they added this in the game but at least it isn't as bullshit as Magearna

7. please just get the hell out of ou already. Nothing tilts me more than seeing this bird, who is supposed to be extinct already, in team preview. I really hate foul play. Out of all the moves in the game, why didn't game freak remove that one is something I'll never understand

should be dropping more in usage. This mon doesn't have that good of a place outside of sand and not everybody wants to use sand

not just this but also rain as a whole. Rain is too difficult to play since everyone loves their bulky grasses thanks to the gorilla

and while I hate to say it, this mon is only good for invalidating Volcarona's existence. It's simply too difficult to use in a different role and get consistent results

8. and . This is my favorite core to use. Ocelzolt is one of the most lethal wallbreakers in the tier and without a doubt the most dangerous one on sand teams. It easily gets rid of the biggest thorn in Garchomp's ass, metal birbs and can pave the way for the shark to rip apart entire teams

and . They don't really work together well but it's a lot of fun since Dragapult ca cripple stuff with burn or paralysis and make things easier for Garchomp. Perhaps my favorite part is burning Landorus Therian, ensuring that Garchomp can setup an sd in front of flying lion's face and not die if its defense has dropped due to scale shot

and . As ironic as this seems, I actually enjoy this core somewhat. Rillaboom absolutely hates Ferrothorn, Tangrowth and metal birbs so I've been using mix chomp so Rilla can bait those in, u turn out and Garchomp burns them. It also stops Landorus Therian from having that much of an impact as draco will kill it or heavily maul it

and . This is probably my favorite non sand defensive core. Tangrowth can counter all the knock off spamming grasses and ensuring that Zapdos doesn't lose its boots while Zapdos can get rid of nonsense like Hawlucha and Galarian Zapdos for Tangrowth

9. I'm torn about it. On one hand, there are now so many random mons who were non existent and shows up on my screen in a battle and it tilts me to no end. It kinda makes me miss the time when dark Urshifu and Spectrier were in the tier. Not because I spammed them but because it was so simple. Just put Buzzwole and Blissey and you're mostly safe from them. Since I'm the only one not spamming those two, it means that I have to expect those two or at least one of them every game so there are no non existent mons that would tilt me. Cinderace is also gone and it really makes me sad. It was the one mon that I use that fits my play style and can reliably get rid of the fairy types. God I fucking hate fairies

On the other hand, Magearna is finally gone. I hate Magearna. This mon shouldn't have existed in the first place and it being gone, I'm finally able to not stress about the tier that much

But hey, Magearna is gone so I'm not gonna complain too much and I'll say that this incarnation of ou is my second favorite, right after the time when dark Urshifu and Spectrier were ruling the tier

10. Thanks, you as well :D

 

[Kouhie]

February usage stats are here! I went ahead and made another visual, two actually, with the first one being the list of mons in the order of their usage, and the second one showing increases and decreases and how many ranks they moved. Everything on the visual had at least 4.52% usage, I'm not an expert at making these, so apologies if some areas look less neat than others. If you guys like what I did with the 2nd visual, then I'm more than happy to do it again in the future. Here's a link to the previous month's usage stats if you guys wanted to compare/contrast them.

Visual

Visual with changes

Stats

 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- +
| 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 38.65590% |
| 2    | Dragapult          | 22.45626% |
| 3    | Heatran            | 19.74234% |
| 4    | Toxapex            | 19.36060% |
| 5    | Ferrothorn         | 19.07870% |
| 6    | Cinderace          | 18.56871% |
| 7    | Magearna           | 18.46622% |
| 8    | Garchomp           | 18.31302% |
| 9    | Rillaboom          | 17.77620% |
| 10   | Clefable           | 17.52802% |
| 11   | Corviknight        | 16.54189% |
| 12   | Slowbro            | 14.79826% |
| 13   | Tapu Koko          | 12.34983% |
| 14   | Kartana            | 12.12107% |
| 15   | Mandibuzz          | 12.01442% |
| 16   | Zapdos             | 11.52939% |
| 17   | Tornadus-Therian   | 10.62877% |
| 18   | Tapu Lele          | 10.34381% |
| 19   | Slowking-Galar     | 10.16865% |
| 20   | Hydreigon          |  9.40940% |
| 21   | Blissey            |  9.39204% |
| 22   | Kyurem             |  8.60526% |
| 23   | Excadrill          |  8.51503% |
| 24   | Hippowdon          |  8.39026% |
| 25   | Tapu Fini          |  8.07120% |
| 26   | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike |  7.89621% |
| 27   | Melmetal           |  7.50024% |
| 28   | Swampert           |  7.41215% |
| 29   | Volcarona          |  7.27302% |
| 30   | Tyranitar          |  7.15645% |
| 31   | Dragonite          |  6.81035% |
| 32   | Slowking           |  6.16649% |
| 33   | Nidoking           |  5.96251% |
| 34   | Regieleki          |  5.94085% |
| 35   | Pelipper           |  5.48528% |
| 36   | Zeraora            |  5.32335% |
| 37   | Hawlucha           |  5.09652% |
| 38   | Magnezone          |  4.82695% |
| 39   | Skarmory           |  4.69183% |
| 40   | Latios             |  4.20378% |
| 41   | Moltres            |  4.17652% |
| 42   | Zapdos-Galar       |  4.15520% |
| 43   | Weavile            |  3.98297% |
| 44   | Crawdaunt          |  3.97509% |
| 45   | Aegislash          |  3.91267% |
| 46   | Bisharp            |  3.84983% |
| 47   | Mew                |  3.18395% |
| 48   | Barraskewda        |  3.15892% |
| 49   | Blaziken           |  3.15321% |
| 50   | Tangrowth          |  3.13256% |
| 51   | Victini            |  2.84220% |
| 52   | Azumarill          |  2.66999% |
| 53   | Mamoswine          |  2.30297% |
| 54   | Blacephalon        |  2.28104% |
| 55   | Scizor             |  2.21576% |
| 56   | Seismitoad         |  2.18003% |
| 57   | Reuniclus          |  2.17026% |
| 58   | Buzzwole           |  2.04548% |
| 59   | Dracozolt          |  1.99435% |
| 60   | Kommo-o            |  1.95187% |
| 61   | Cloyster           |  1.95156% |
| 62   | Gastrodon          |  1.88780% |
| 63   | Keldeo             |  1.85739% |
| 64   | Gengar             |  1.80459% |
| 65   | Chansey            |  1.79688% |
| 66   | Latias             |  1.76720% |
| 67   | Togekiss           |  1.75692% |
| 68   | Quagsire           |  1.75068% |
| 69   | Obstagoon          |  1.72030% |
| 70   | Spectrier          |  1.68226% |
| 71   | Jirachi            |  1.65745% |
| 72   | Rotom-Wash         |  1.59756% |
| 73   | Ninetales-Alola    |  1.58046% |
| 74   | Torkoal            |  1.34807% |
| 75   | Suicune            |  1.29661% |
| 76   | Celesteela         |  1.28754% |
| 77   | Moltres-Galar      |  1.27471% |
| 78   | Kingdra            |  1.24537% |
| 79   | Krookodile         |  1.22250% |
| 80   | Amoonguss          |  1.17323% |
| 81   | Grimmsnarl         |  1.14401% |
| 82   | Hatterene          |  1.13129% |
| 83   | Thundurus-Therian  |  1.11884% |
| 84   | Diggersby          |  1.09696% |
| 85   | Rhyperior          |  1.09217% |
| 86   | Salamence          |  1.07927% |
| 87   | Ditto              |  1.06571% |
| 88   | Umbreon            |  0.98681% |
| 89   | Rotom-Heat         |  0.95214% |
| 90   | Tapu Bulu          |  0.95087% |
| 91   | Zarude             |  0.90162% |
| 92   | Marowak-Alola      |  0.88278% |
| 93   | Alakazam           |  0.84206% |
| 94   | Gyarados           |  0.80832% |
| 95   | Venusaur           |  0.78387% |
| 96   | Primarina          |  0.77006% |
| 97   | Arctozolt          |  0.70046% |
| 98   | Volcanion          |  0.69617% |
| 99   | Terrakion          |  0.67271% |
| 100  | Conkeldurr         |  0.65009% |
| 101  | Toxtricity         |  0.62322% |
| 102  | Shuckle            |  0.61710% |
| 103  | Nihilego           |  0.57101% |
| 104  | Shedinja           |  0.56210% |
| 105  | Porygon2           |  0.53595% |
| 106  | Cresselia          |  0.50378% |
| 107  | Sandaconda         |  0.50256% |
| 108  | Snorlax            |  0.49111% |
| 109  | Necrozma           |  0.45953% |
| 110  | Glastrier          |  0.45847% |
| 111  | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.43500% |
| 112  | Porygon-Z          |  0.42725% |
| 113  | Sylveon            |  0.42001% |
| 114  | Azelf              |  0.39789% |
| 115  | Exploud            |  0.39073% |
| 116  | Darmanitan         |  0.37184% |
| 117  | Jellicent          |  0.35148% |
| 118  | Mimikyu            |  0.34904% |
| 119  | Inteleon           |  0.34563% |
| 120  | Ribombee           |  0.31429% |
| 121  | Regidrago          |  0.31197% |
| 122  | Charizard          |  0.30735% |
| 123  | Goodra             |  0.29586% |
| 124  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.29093% |
| 125  | Slurpuff           |  0.28890% |
| 126  | Polteageist        |  0.28591% |
| 127  | Nidoqueen          |  0.28154% |
| 128  | Xatu               |  0.26275% |
| 129  | Starmie            |  0.26234% |
| 130  | Gigalith           |  0.25403% |
| 131  | Vanilluxe          |  0.25225% |
| 132  | Scolipede          |  0.25158% |
| 133  | Salazzle           |  0.24732% |
| 134  | Heracross          |  0.24519% |
| 135  | Incineroar         |  0.24457% |
| 136  | Audino             |  0.24378% |
| 137  | Tyrantrum          |  0.23743% |
| 138  | Pyukumuku          |  0.23664% |
| 139  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.23240% |
| 140  | Registeel          |  0.22837% |
| 141  | Klefki             |  0.22621% |
| 142  | Whimsicott         |  0.19960% |
| 143  | Araquanid          |  0.19930% |
| 144  | Golurk             |  0.19447% |
| 145  | Regigigas          |  0.19323% |
| 146  | Pangoro            |  0.19305% |
| 147  | Stakataka          |  0.18573% |
| 148  | Espeon             |  0.18363% |
| 149  | Aerodactyl         |  0.18064% |
| 150  | Zoroark            |  0.17948% |
| 151  | Raikou             |  0.17325% |
| 152  | Weezing-Galar      |  0.17017% |
| 153  | Milotic            |  0.16548% |
| 154  | Xurkitree          |  0.16536% |
| 155  | Sandslash-Alola    |  0.16103% |
| 156  | Cinccino           |  0.16026% |
| 157  | Haxorus            |  0.15941% |
| 158  | Zygarde-10%        |  0.15536% |
| 159  | Vaporeon           |  0.15448% |
| 160  | Metagross          |  0.15208% |
| 161  | Tornadus           |  0.15186% |
| 162  | Indeedee           |  0.15175% |
| 163  | Thundurus          |  0.14971% |
| 164  | Omastar            |  0.14966% |
| 165  | Gardevoir          |  0.14376% |
| 166  | Stunfisk           |  0.14262% |
| 167  | Lycanroc-Midnight  |  0.13988% |
| 168  | Tentacruel         |  0.13876% |
| 169  | Aggron             |  0.13508% |
| 170  | Drampa             |  0.13266% |
| 171  | Uxie               |  0.12547% |
| 172  | Froslass           |  0.12499% |
| 173  | Roserade           |  0.12349% |
| 174  | Sigilyph           |  0.12319% |
| 175  | Runerigus          |  0.12081% |
| 176  | Corsola-Galar      |  0.12006% |
| 177  | Ninetales          |  0.11721% |
| 178  | Lucario            |  0.11454% |
| 179  | Mantine            |  0.11296% |
| 180  | Chandelure         |  0.11261% |
| 181  | Blastoise          |  0.10825% |
| 182  | Arctovish          |  0.10771% |

Obviously with the recent bans of Cinderace and Magearna, the metagame has changed tremendously, and there's a lot to talk about it. I'll go ahead and leave some questions as usual for you guys to discuss:

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)

As always, if you have any feedback or any questions, you're more than welcome to PM me or another moderator.

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?

These two electric types used to be great DLC1 Isle of Armor, but after DLC2 Crown Tundra dropped, both of them saw less usage because of strong returning ground types. However, they are both back in business, Zeraora can knock off or toxic ground types that are trying to volt block and Magnezone can trap common steel types to let other breakers go ham. Glad to see them being used more in the OU metagame.


After Spectrier got banned, Tyranitar dropped quite a bit down in usage, but that was not the end for Tyranitar, it can run support sets or offensive sets to run through teams nonetheless. Though it does get out shadowed by Hippowdon who has a form of recovery and is not 4x weak to fighting type moves.

2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?

The increase in slowking surprised me a bit, though this thing is basically a special wall version of Slowbro, who is a beast at tanking hits and using Future Sight/Teleport to get in its other teammates.

3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Draco Meteor
- Freeze-Dry

Very strong set, you blast through many strong defensive pokemons if you click the right move and nothing likes to switch in besides Blissey, Slowking-Galar, and occasionally Heatran.

4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?

Clefable @ Sticky Barb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock

Lead Clefable and click trick.

5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?

Fast, Volt-Turn, and the ability to make a hole in a team. Nasty Plot Tornadus-Therian is very dangerous if it managed to land his moves and Bulk Up/Calm Mind Zeraora is not to be underestimated as well.

6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?

Tangrowth is a great physical or special wall paired with Assault Vest, access to a great ability, and a lot of good moves such as; Sleep Powder, Knock off, Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Toxic, and many more. Tangrowth will definitely become an OU staple soon.

Weavile is a fast and strong ice/dark type pokemon, the OU metagame does not have a lot of ice types pokemon, only Kyurem and that thing is a menace. Although Weavile does not have Pursuit anymore, it is still a very strong pokemon, Ice Shard, Knock Off, and Triple Axel are some of its moves, it can dispatch a lot of defensive mons that are not Toxapex or Ferrothorn. Only if Weavile got the ability Technician... This thing would be a threat with Triple Axel and priority Ice Shard.

Aegislash is another pokemon that has loved the recent ban of Spectrier and Cinderace, it has many great sets and a very solid typing to add on to that. Though it will take some time for Aegislash to start getting used more and for players to explore its potential it has in the OU metagame.

7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?

Regieleki requires a lot of setup to function as a sweeper, but when its teammates do manage to remove the ground types or Zeroara, it can be a very dangerous pokemon to deal with. It also has a niche as a screen setter, but Tapu Koko can do the same but better, I think Regieleki will drop down to UU in the next tier shift.

8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
or
Magnezone paired up with Garchomp, or Rillaboom is a nightmare, common walls are Corviknight, Skarmoary, and Ferrothorn, but with Magnezone you can trap them and either Thunderbolt/Body press them to death to open either your Garchomp or Rillaboom to go on a rampage!


The slow-brothers core! One of them sponges the physical attacks and the other sponges the special attacks. It's a strong and fun defensive core to play with, especially the future sight support they provide for other teammates to break through certain pokemons.

9. How do you feel about the metagame?
With the ban of Spectrier, Magearna, and Cinderace, the meta has been very fun to play in. The team building is not that restrictive anymore where you need to run a ghost resist and some sort of 'counter' to Cinderace and Magearna. Besides the team-building aspect, so many new pokemons can be used in OU again and it just opens the door for many new strategies to make it more fun and balanced metagame.

10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)
The same goes for you!

 

[Finchinator]

While it’s too early to act on anything right now, Tornadus-Therian is pretty hard to keep in check.

The first thing everyone’s mind goes to is the Nasty Plot set, which is blessed with both longevity and a unique offensive presence. An obvious and very noteworthy drawback is reliance on low accuracy moves, which may very well balance Tornadus-T altogether, but otherwise this set is quite the challenge.

A couple of faster checks like Tapu Koko — Roost variants being the closest we have to a counter — and Zeraora — which is at least an early game response — do a nice job, but no other Pokemon besides Zapdos and the rare Rotom-Wash can really contain it. Knock Off allows for it to slowly pick things apart, especially if hazards are up or a few early Hurricanes can land.

The utility sets of Tornadus-T are fantastic as well, complimenting its longevity with great support offensively and defensively. I would not argue for this set to be looked at in a suspect context at all though.

Overall, there is still a lot to see from Tornadus-T, but it’s absolutely showing potential to restrict building and overwhelm some structures. We have to be careful in planning for it with our teams moving forward at least.

 

[Red Raven]

Legit question, just give me a yes or no. Am I the only one who thinks boots is broken?

 

[Finchinator]

Legit question, just give me a yes or no. Am I the only one who thinks boots is broken?

No, it was a response by a fair number of people on the recent survey. We have a Policy Review thread on it here.

With this said, I think a little reminder that we have a thread for simple questions here and if you want to bring up a new topic for discussion, try adding some substance as well. We tend to avoid one liners, especially without substance, in this thread due to the nature of it.

 

[OneSmogonCopyer]

It is indeed WAY too early to talk about Tornadus-T impact on the meta. There is plenty of ways to deal with Tornadus-T, notably Tapu Koko, Regieleki, Dragapult, SpDef Hippowdon, Slowking-Galar and SpDef Corviknight.

There's two Pokemon that are actually way bigger problems right now than the bird: Tapu Lele & Kyurem.
Those two behemoths have no defensive counterplays instead of full SpDef Corviknight (not even full SpDef Heatran can take on Kyurem because Earth Power is a thing, and Lele packs Focus Blast).

Some insane calcs:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 332-392 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 462-544 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 272-320 (77.2 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 272-320 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Pex straight up dies to both of them

I honestly believe that Tapu Lele & Kyurem are suspect tests worthy. And we should tests them both at once.

Come on saying both Lele and Kyurem not having defensive counterplay is disingenuous. Kyurem can be beaten by Scizor and it's the biggest counter to kyurem out there. Lele also cant touch Aegislash. I'm not saying they are easily counterable, but they do have counters. And Scizor isnt even THAT bad since Scizor can fight against Grass spam.

 

[Jordy]

I personally believe that it is very realistic to build your teams in such a way that you can sufficiently outplay Kyurem and Tapu Lele even if you have no true defensive checks. This is especially true for Kyurem because Stealth Rock puts it on a very significant timer; every time you deny it a good opportunity upon switching in while Stealth Rock is up, it loses another opportunity to break a neck entirely. You can attempt to outplay them by having them lock into the wrong moves, but what really holds them back is their Speed tier; they are outsped by a good amount of other wallbreakers in the metagame. Dragapult, Garchomp, Tornadus-T, Latios, and Zeraora are just some of the first Pokemon that come to mind.

Both Kyurem and Tapu Lele are some of the most potent wallbreakers in the tier for sure, but pretending that Tapu Lele in particular is uncheckable defensively is just not true. Slowking is very popular and a pretty strong defensive check, as is Aegislash.

These Pokemon are not very pressing issues in my opinion and just waiting to see how the meta turns out is much preferable than rushing anything. If you are really struggling with these Pokemon I'd suggest you build teams that are better at offensively limiting them; if you are primarily running slow balance teams, I can definitely see why you'd think they are oppressive. People often only consider defensive checks and completely forget to look at offensive options that involve outplaying.

 

[Katy]

It is indeed WAY too early to talk about Tornadus-T impact on the meta. There is plenty of ways to deal with Tornadus-T, notably Tapu Koko, Regieleki, Dragapult, SpDef Hippowdon, Slowking-Galar and SpDef Corviknight.

There's two Pokemon that are actually way bigger problems right now than the bird: Tapu Lele & Kyurem.
Those two behemoths have no defensive counterplays instead of full SpDef Corviknight (not even full SpDef Heatran can take on Kyurem because Earth Power is a thing, and Lele packs Focus Blast).

Some insane calcs:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 332-392 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 462-544 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 272-320 (77.2 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 272-320 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Pex straight up dies to both of them

I honestly believe that Tapu Lele & Kyurem are suspect tests worthy. And we should tests them both at once.

I am not convinced about suspecting either Kyurem or Tapu Lele. Both have their checks in the metagame.

to divide them and to make that more clear, I'll talk about Kyurem first and then about Tapu Lele right after:

is a great wallbreaker in the Ou tier, that is true, its Choice Specs set is difficult to switch into, but it is not uncheckable by any means, the metagame trends into a direction in which players prepare more for Kyurem, as with the ban of both, Cinderace and Magearna, there are more checks to explore against Kyurem. It is true that Kyurem also benefited from these two bans, but so does a lot of the checks do.

To the checklist of Kyurem:
Faster threats such as Garchomp, Dragapult, Hydreigon, Kartana, Tapu Koko, and Zeraora can all revengekill and offensively pressure Kyurem. Moreover Dragapult can threaten SubRoost variants with Infiltrator. Scizor is also a great answer to Kyurem as Kyurem won't stay in on a hard hitting Bullet Punch.
While it is true they all can't come in on Kyurem they can be paired with Pokemon like Blissey or Slowking to get them in safely with Teleport, although Slowking has to be wary about switching into Freeze-Dry and Draco Meteor.
Defensive answers are the aforementioned Blissey and moreover Heatran and Galarian Slowking, which do not fear the Ice-type STAB that much and Galarian Slowking can also tank a Draco Meteor rather easily.
There are other Pokemon, which can threaten Kyurem, these I will say are honorable mentions, such as Latios, Melmetal, and Aegislash. Although they must be wary about Kyurems coverage ir STABs but Melmetal threatens it out with Double Iron Bash, Latios is faster, and Aegislash can threaten it with its Steel-type STAB or coverage in Close Combat or the rare Head Smash.

I feel like there are enough Pokemon offensively and defensively, which can keep Kyurem at bay and there are a lot of Pokemon, which aren't niche at all and getting more attraction and usage in the current metagame, tourplay and ladderplay alike. I feel Kyurem, while its a scary wallbreaker, has its checks to keep it in check.

Despite the fact that Tapu Lele is scary and its best set is Choice Specs, it has to be wary about a lot of Pokemon, which can handle it in a certain way.
First and foremost, Rillaboom is on a rise again and it can disrupt Tapu Leles Psychic Terrain with overwritting it with its own Grassy Terrain, which means Tapu Lele has to switch out from a priority Grassy Glide, which it doesn't tank well at all coming from Rillaboom.
Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Corviknight, and Aegislash can check Tapu Lele, and Pokemon like Galarian Slowking and its brother Slowking both do a great job at handling it as well, allthough Galarian Slowking has to be wary about Psyshock, but both are capable of checking it.
Another Steel-type is Melmetal, allthough its Assault Vest set is more niche than its other sets, but it can comfortable switch into its Psychic- and Fairy-type STAB moves and in return threaten it out, as Tapu Lele otherwise will fall to Double Iron Bash. To the Choice Scarf- and Choice Specs set, both have the unforunate issue, that Tapu Lele wants to use its Psychic-type STAB more than its secondary STAB, so Dark-types can - occosionally - switch into both sets and cancel out the Psychic-type STAB and are able to use it as setup fodder or heavily damage it with a neutral move or coverage. Faster threats like Landorus-Therian, Kartana, and Dragapult are able to revengekill the Choice Specs set.

Conclusion:
I think both Pokemon, Kyurem and Tapu Lele, have their checks in the metagame which can either handle them offensively or defensively, and a lot of Pokemon are pretty common or starting to pick up in viability or usage. So in overall I don't think both of them deserve a suspect right now, as they aren't "unhandleable" in any aspect.

 

[theotherguytm]

Honestly anything that relies on Focus Miss 2HKOing is only broken 49% of the time. So 51% of the time it's fine.
Also, Lele and Kyurem rely on prediction a ton and don't have any "safe" option like Urshifu-S had with U-Turn or any overwhelming STAB that has no punishment for clicking like Magearna's Fleur Cannon. If you Freeze-Dry their Heatran, or Psyshock their AV Melmetal, something is taking a lot of pain in return.

If you really desperately need counters:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (SpD Clef is pretty reliable, especially with Protect. Flash Cannon just has too high a cost to run.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 212-252 (69.7 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (SpD Pex can scout its movechoice if heathy, then Regen off the damage and give a Steel of your choice a free switch-in.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 80+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 170-200 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Again, scout and Regen out into your bird of choice.)
Kyurem Earth Power vs. Air Balloon Aegislash-Shield: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever (Yeeeha! Most broken mon in the the tier strikes again! FR, Aegi tanks 2 Dracos uninvested...)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Jirachi: 286-338 (70.7 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (While UU atm, Jirachi is far from being a bad mon. How else do you think UU handles this beast?)

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Jirachi: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Speaking of...)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 157-185 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (the birb can just PP stall it)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Psychic Terrain: 106-126 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 64.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Aegi Gang. Aegi Gang. 680 BST. Bottom Text.)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 140-165 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (If you don't want Corv for whatever reason, you can drag this thing out the depths of UU...)

The best advice I can give you is to force these mons to guess. Having a team like bulky steel+bird+bulky water (ever wondered why every team ever features this? Wonder no more) makes both of their jobs much harder, as they have to now guess your switch-in. Sometimes they'll be right, sometimes they'll be wrong. But if you set your offensive mons up to abuse the Choice lock (eg: for Lele having Hydreigon to abuse it locking into its Psychic STAB), then you can punish your opponent even if they guess correctly.