Hawlucha suspect test? Please?
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
They're gonna finally ban boots on the last day of SwSh
My thoughts on the upcoming Heavy Duty Boots suspect...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvFZjo5PgG0&ab_channel=Freezai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvFZjo5PgG0&ab_channel=Freezai
A pivot doesn't necessarily mean having a pivot move. Clefable pivots into attacks and soaks them up and then forces things out, all while packing longevity and an immunity to passive damage. That's what makes it so effective at its job.
SilvallyF also comes with the terrible crime of being unable to check Weavile realistically. Clef can at least pivot in to knocks and stay healthy, potentially punishing triple axel with helmet chip if it runs in.
You’re all clearly missing the bigger picture here.
Suspect:
[Sus]: Among Us? A game about aliens?
[pect]: Pectorals? The muscles?
What is the only logical combination of an alien with large pecs?
Exactly. They’re going to ban Buzzwole.
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Just so this isn’t a complete shitpost, I’m a little confused as to why we’d want a suspect test when the meta will become obsolete in a month. Is it worthwhile to potentially make such a big change this late in the gen? Moreover, I don’t recall the player base having major complaints about any specific mon in the most recent poll.
Suspect:
[Sus]: Among Us? A game about aliens?
[pect]: Pectorals? The muscles?
What is the only logical combination of an alien with large pecs?
Exactly. They’re going to ban Buzzwole.
——————————
Just so this isn’t a complete shitpost, I’m a little confused as to why we’d want a suspect test when the meta will become obsolete in a month. Is it worthwhile to potentially make such a big change this late in the gen? Moreover, I don’t recall the player base having major complaints about any specific mon in the most recent poll.
Tier still will likey be played in the future. It's not like people stopped playing oras or sm OU despite them no longer being current.
The july and september surveys showed a pretty notable jump in concern about Melmetal from around 34.8% of the qualified voters supported action being taken on Melmetal (from the survey in July) which jumped to 58.1% in september.
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It's always worth it to make the change, even if it's a little late. We're at a peaking point for the meta development with Melmetal currently, which is saying something because we've seen a similar situation with Weavile already. However, Melmetal does present itself a little more overwhelmingly so a suspect test would be warranted. I don't think it will be banned necessarily, and I personally find it to be just balanced enough to remain in the tier, but to each their own. I don't have as much insight into current trends as others might because I got burned out playing this tier and skipped town to play pseudo tiers, so take what I say with a grain of salt until we actually have results.
It is time to fulfill Gilbert's dying wish.
I personally don't understand why there would be a need to suspect test Melmetal. Melmetal is currently a very healthy Pokémon in the metagame. It is hands down the best 1v1 Pokémon, but it also suffers from not being able to break out of that niche, because it has such low speed and no moves to boost its attack (there was a mention of the Acid Armor + Body Press set, but that set doesn't help it at all against any of its offensive checks, and also leaves it walled by Zapdos). A decently played Melmetal will often force a 1 for 1 trade, and a well played one can go 1 for 2 or even 1 for 3. But it should never go 1 for 6. Nearly every team runs a ground type with a fairly powerful Earthquake and many teams run Pokémon with powerful fire, fighting, water, electric, ghost and dark type attacks on top of that, and some of those attacks can OHKO Melmetal, if they're specially offensive STABS.
Not only is Melmetal in my humble opinion not imbalanced, it also fulfills an important role that no other Pokémon can; it is the only non-choiced Pokémon that can OHKO Clefable from full health, being the best way for bulky offensive teams to deter an opposing pink blob from sitting there and spamming Knock Off, Thunder Wave and Soft-Boiled, since even Galarian Slowking sometimes risks getting turned into set-up fodder.
While the opportunity cost is a lot lower than in other cases, Melmetal also competes a little with its fellow steel types such as Heatran and Ferrothorn, who are often able to better distinguish themselves defensively on account of their unique typings and can support their team with hazards.
Edit: Sorry, just some thoughts that poured out at 2:40 am here, probably not the most noteworthy contribution. Will go to sleep now.
Not only is Melmetal in my humble opinion not imbalanced, it also fulfills an important role that no other Pokémon can; it is the only non-choiced Pokémon that can OHKO Clefable from full health, being the best way for bulky offensive teams to deter an opposing pink blob from sitting there and spamming Knock Off, Thunder Wave and Soft-Boiled, since even Galarian Slowking sometimes risks getting turned into set-up fodder.
While the opportunity cost is a lot lower than in other cases, Melmetal also competes a little with its fellow steel types such as Heatran and Ferrothorn, who are often able to better distinguish themselves defensively on account of their unique typings and can support their team with hazards.
Edit: Sorry, just some thoughts that poured out at 2:40 am here, probably not the most noteworthy contribution. Will go to sleep now.
I don't think this is a fair assessment. From the July survey there are 66 "qualified" people, of which 23 support tiering action.
"Of the 66 qualified responses, 60.6% did not believe action should be taken on Melmetal. 34.8% of the qualified voters supported action being taken on Melmetal. This was a greater deal of support than the general public."
In September, there are 31 responses and 18 votes of support. That is literally LESS people voting in favor of a suspect. While, yes it's a larger proportion of votes from the "qualified", the sample size is considerably smaller.
"However, of the 31 qualified responses, only 38.7% do not believe action should be taken on Melmetal. 58.1% of the qualified voters support action being taken on Melmetal."
_
That being said, I don't think that Melmetal is deserving of tiering action. And this is coming from someone who finds the mon completely obnoxious. There are plenty of Melmetal answers like Zapdos, Gastrodon, Corviknight, Slowbro, etc. and while in ideal situations with the right sets it can attempt to muscle past them, it can't have all 3 items and 8+ moves it needs to beat all of them at the same time. Plus, a Pokemon being able to adapt to and break through its checks is normal. This is fundamentally the same as me saying a Pokemon like Garchomp or Clefable is broken because they can mix up sets to beat checks. Versatility like that doesn't make a Pokemon broken, that just means it's good, it's the reason most of you don't use a lot of conventionally bad Pokemon; many of them will never be able to get past Corvi, Pex or Clef no matter how hard they try. Plus, Melmetal's pool of checks remains relatively constant no matter what it has. You don't have to dig deep into the Pokedex to find them either, a lot of them are common in OU and are easy to slap onto teams.
Locking as we have this now https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ss-ou-suspect-process-round-12-monster-mash.3709234/
unlocking this as we now have Melmetal remaining SS OU in a landslide
can't say im surprised, maybe a little by how much of an overwhelming majority voted to keep it in ou, but ultimately this should help repair the reputation that all suspect votes result in a ban. Through often the case as something suspected is usually something that is indeed broken, we have tests for a reason as proof of this and clearly, the majority felt this was not true for melmetal.
We were happy to test Melmetal as a lot of people spoke up to us and the survey indicated support. It seems like a lot of people supported it being suspected, but over the last few weeks, decided it still wasn’t enough to be banworthy. I think this is just the process working as it’s intended. Not every suspect needs to end in a ban, which we have seen at a point last generation and now this one!
We need a Hawlucha suspect that man is a menace
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
I second this. Boots is more toxic than the move toxic itself
Everyone out here complaining about boots and QDQC doesn't even come to mind smh.
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
One thing at a time my friend. After the boots thing, qdqc is probably gonna come next since that's really the only toxic thing I can think of after boots
I do not see action on Boots to be particularly likely at this moment in time.
Learn to play defense without needing to heal 30% every time you switch out and ignoring hazards for free.
I’m joking of course, but let’s avoid boiling down people’s arguments like this. Hazard control has been since GSC, and it has gotten easier every single gen. HDB have trivialized this skill quite a bit, it’d be ridiculous to pretend otherwise
You have Knock Off to remove the Boots a move half of the Dex and most of the VR knows (also Trick/Switcheroo/Corrosive Gas and even Thief, though these are rarer or not as good) . And while it's true removing hazards has been increasingly easier, hazard setters have increased in number at the same time. Before this gen, Mew didn't know Spikes for example, and now it's a centerpiece to many HOs.
If we being real pex is the only problematic regen mon. Regen on its own is no more of a problem than it's been in every other gen. Just because you can't run only 1 (one) form of passive damage and cover literally every mon anymore doesn't mean stall is broke. But pex is another story. Who cares if you have two mons that 1v1 it? mon just takes 60 from a super-effective STAB, clicks koff or toxic or tspikes or scald or whatever other random utility the mon gets and then switches out for free to its teammate that answers your pex answer (which any good pex team will have). Not saying it's broken for sure but I'd bet a pex suspect would be a lot less one-sided than the melm one.