Dehelmise should be in B+ because it has its ability Steel Worker which allows it too have STAB in grass, ghost, and steel. With the ability to easly trap pokemon and hit hard and chip away at even Diancie, it can easily wall Diancie, Mudsdale, Starmie, and Vaporeon. This pokemon is a true force to be wreckend with.
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Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Meri Berry
- Start date
- Status
Dehelmise should be in B+ because it has its ability Steel Worker which allows it too have STAB in grass, ghost, and steel. With the ability to easly trap pokemon and hit hard and chip away at even Diancie, it can easily wall Diancie, Mudsdale, Starmie, and Vaporeon. This pokemon is a true force to be wreckend with.
S --> AI'll be honest, not too sure about this rise. Meta trends right now are hard against it, with a rise of the Dragon-types that all beat it, Silvally-Ground, Plume, and even stuff like Vap seeing more use. On top of that, it lost its niche of a rocker that that scares Xatu since that also started to drop off with Bronzong going. It also isn't the premier rocker right now imo. Mudsdale covers a lot more defensively and it's almost outclassed by Rhydon, who actually beats Salazzle over a game and adds a Volt immunity. Hail kinda messes with teams that rely on it as a "pseudo" steel, too. I haven't been high on this Pokemon for a while in case you can't tell, and I think the meta threats popping up post Zong do anything but help it. Maybe if it could beat the Dragon types it'd be worth using...
What is really cool though is offensive sets. I think that those get a lot more potent and should be considered more often for teams. I think stuff like Specs or M Beam RP have a ton of potential to mess up the tier or else I'd say to drop this lower.
A+ --> A/A-In a similar vein to Diancie, I don't think this Pokemon is very good at the moment. I predicted this before Bronzong left: Copper is simply the way better Steel, just like before Bronzong rose in prominence. The 4x Fire weakness is really really rough in a meta where you need your Steel to eat a hit from Goodra. On top of that, a lack of rocks means you almost always need to fill another slot with a rocker, and if you need a Steel, AV Copper almost always just does it better. A surefire Hail answer and Knock are notable, but I find its weaknesses far outweigh its strengths for the current meta. If Goodra goes, this Pokemon is probably better, but even then, Copper existing again really puts a damper on any Escav teams.
A --> S-It's no secret that this Pokemon is bonkers. I won't really elaborate too much (the NP thread does it for me), but it is notable that this Pokemon currently beats almost all of A+ and is a Pokemon that is beginning to warp the metagame around it. Teams are forced to be faster now and every team has to have an offensive way to deal with this on top of certain cores in order to not straight up lose. Very much an S/S- tier Pokemon, especially with the defensive utility it provides on top of the offensive prowess.
A+ --> ALosing Bronzong really showed that this Pokemon was kinda ok outside of that MU. The lack of bulk is a lot more apparent now, and it doesn't shut down teams the way it used to. What's nice about it though is the rocks mind games are always great, and even if you have to sack it to do it, keeping rocks off is always nice. What's really good for it is Night Shade no longer feels mandatory, so Heat Wave, Grass Knot, T Wave, etc are all viable options. Xatu is still a nice presence, but not as good as it was before, so I'm in favor of drop, but I wouldn't be surprised if new sets start to pop up that give it real viability again.
A --> A+ Copper is once again the premier Steel, and AV has very little to no switch in if you predict properly, similar to Goodra. Not much to say here, but it's definitely a tier titan once again.
Some Other Thoughts
Not sure on this dropping tbh. I think a rise in Pokemon like Rhydon, Quag, and Vap in response to it show just how good it is, but a rise in Sylveon and Plume also give it more opportunity to come in on things. Its nice speed tier and offensive potential are always fantastic and this is a major threat in the builder and in game. Heatproof Zong was also one of those splashable answers to it, so with that gone, there's not much left. I run Dragon Pulse to really mess with teams reliant on Guzz as an answer, but options like Knock, Toxic, and Encore all deserve mention. I bet SubTox is disgusting right now, too.
I'm surprised it dropped. It's three counters were Vaporeon, Heatproof Zong, and Mantine. WIth Zong leaving and Mantine being absolute shit, it feels very weird that this dropped. Not saying it should rise a ton, but I do think that this Pokemon probably has a TON of potential on HO and shouldn't have moved down.
Wont make a long, detailed post since I havent played the current meta too much yet, but just reminding everyone that the current VR pretty much reflects the end stage of zong meta + hail, as by the time we were voting we still didnt have a good look on new meta trends and such but still needed to drop an update since it had been quite a while since the last one. So if anyones confused with some of the rises or drops, like Duraludon rising (special dragon that could reliably beat Zong) or Salazzle dropping (Psychic Heatproof Zong was quite a great check to this), just keep in mind it still reflects the Bronzong meta to an extent. We will be holding a vote soon to properly update it to current trends though (aka Goodra SS+) 
Not a bad idea. One point though is that unless you run SpD Defog, +2 Blastoise will OHKO Decidueye, so I don’t consider it a check there. The Passimian matchup also is far from perfect given its faster with Knock Off, though preventing it from revenge killing with Close Combat due to the free Swords Dance from Decidueye is always a perk. Anyways, we’re seeing a little less of Drapion and Guzzlord, and even with Guzzlord there’s still U-turn that does a ton. A lot of cores struggle with Decidueye and there’s enough variability to keep you guessing. A lot of its support, like Dragagle, is also doing very well. I think it’s plausible for Decidueye to return to A- but not much higher.
I THINK TALONFLAME IS TOO HIGH.
I don’t know why it is S but it shouldn’t be. It is crippled by both Shell smash Blastoise and Vaporeon wich are both powerful forces in the meta. It also fails do survive Rotom-C, Kopperajah, Mudbray and Diancie, all these weekneses are fine for A or A- but not for S!
I don’t know why it is S but it shouldn’t be. It is crippled by both Shell smash Blastoise and Vaporeon wich are both powerful forces in the meta. It also fails do survive Rotom-C, Kopperajah, Mudbray and Diancie, all these weekneses are fine for A or A- but not for S!
Yo you gotta play our meta a bit more before throwing out these hot VR takes lol. The Decideuye one was lucky because for some reason it had fallen lower than it should've regardless, but this one shows a lack of insight.
If you gotta ask meta questions in the simple questions thread you're not really experienced enough to be throwing this out with the confidence you've got
I play the meta. Talonflame is only good at using defog, wich Silvally Steel and Decidyueye can also do, both of which have other functions as well.
I know Talonflame is solid in defense but he just has too many weaknesses to be able to defend really effectively. And those weaknesses are all communly used since those include Shell smash Blastoise, Vaporeon and Rotom-C.
It is better replaced with other Pokémon like Decidyueye who also give you a chance to take down Vaporeon and others.
Decidyueye really is a awesome Wallbreaker and setup sweeper. Although he lacks speed and is often outsped by Rotom-C and Shell smash Blastoise, he has Special and Physical moves giving him an advantage over Pokémon that use assault vest as they can’t predict whether he will use Special moves or not.First nu vr post idk if these are hot takes
to A
Yes it’s an uncreative and boring mon to use, I hate facing it too. That being said, it’s got excellent defensive utility and solid recovery in conjunction with pivoting and passing wishes. It’s passivity and exploitability is why it doesn’t belong higher, but it walls a lot of mons with its useful typing and great hp and spdef. Good spatk stat also means it’s scalds actually sting non-resists and burns are no fun for a lot of the tier. Sylveon is probably competition for it, but resisting water, fire and ice are valuable traits and slow pivoting is useful af.
to A
Absolutely love using this mon. Great set versatility and techs to keep checks guessing. Both cb and specs are excellent breakers that require different counterplay. Guzzlord switches in only to take a banded uturn. Sd sets are decent too and nasty plot probably deserves some more experimentation. It’s low speed can be troublesome but it packs priority if needed and specs shadow ball/leaf storm is exceptionally difficult to switch into if ur not packing guzz. A mon with 4 viable sets and 2 of them being completely proven as very threatening in the meta deserves A rank for sure imo.
I also agree about Vaporeon as it has access to Toxic, Flip Turn and Heal Bell making it a Great Wall and it has access to Scald wich is a solid offensive option to weaken attackers by letting it fish for burns. I know it already is A but I also know that it should stay there.
Wanted to address the posts made here
I feel like a lot of the arguments you're making aren't really filled with basis but if I'm wrong on that lmk. I suggest you check out the personal VR thread if you'd like to show the ideas you have w.r.t how the mons are tiered w/o causing a shitstorm on this thread LMFAO (I mean this as respectfully as I can possibly be)
This is just not true. Talonflame's most common set rn is BB/Wisp/U-Turn/Roost. Defog on most shit isn't even good right now, Talonflame included. Talonflame provides tons of defensive utility with Flame Body and spreading burns to many prominent physical mons such as GroundVally and Copperajah, albeit it does need to watch for rock coverage. Being a general check to most physical attackers and outspeeding the likes of Salazzle and threatening it with BB is a valuable aspect in the meta rn. ProTox as innovated by Togkey is pretty neat at the moment for allowing you to scout what MowTom locks into and allows you to play accordingly. This is a brief explanation, I can dive into more specifics if need be.
This I guess makes a little bit of sense? You're just pointing out that a Fire/Flying type is in fact weak to Water and Electric. Vaporeon is U-Turn bait and is exploitable by quite a number of mons rn.
I feel like a lot of the arguments you're making aren't really filled with basis but if I'm wrong on that lmk. I suggest you check out the personal VR thread if you'd like to show the ideas you have w.r.t how the mons are tiered w/o causing a shitstorm on this thread LMFAO (I mean this as respectfully as I can possibly be)
I would like to Nom 
to S-/A+
Now now before everyone starts to Kill me I have a few things to say
The tier is dominated by mons like Mowtom Blastoise Diancie Vaporeon (though it can be UTurnd) It cant check mons it supposed to check too like Copper can just Stone Edge you to Death , Passimian can Rockslide you or just Knock off you and speaking of knock off Talon is very very knock off prone though flame body can be annoying and its not a really great grass type check the best grass type mowtom can just ko u or use u as a momentum and another popular grass in vileplume can just corrosive gas or status you its not a great ground type answer Tsareena can just knock off you dhelmise can just straight up 2 hit ko you and decid has a roll to 1 hit ko you its not a bad per say fighting type answer but all can just knock off you its not a great copper check cause stone edge exists and toge can use electric stab duraladon can use its dracos or just tbolt u to death esc knocks off u and Flame Body isn't 100% so u cant always rely on flame body
Now talon isn't a bad poke per say but S feels too much S-/A+ seems more appropriate
to S-/A+Now now before everyone starts to Kill me I have a few things to say
The tier is dominated by mons like Mowtom Blastoise Diancie Vaporeon (though it can be UTurnd) It cant check mons it supposed to check too like Copper can just Stone Edge you to Death , Passimian can Rockslide you or just Knock off you and speaking of knock off Talon is very very knock off prone though flame body can be annoying and its not a really great grass type check the best grass type mowtom can just ko u or use u as a momentum and another popular grass in vileplume can just corrosive gas or status you its not a great ground type answer Tsareena can just knock off you dhelmise can just straight up 2 hit ko you and decid has a roll to 1 hit ko you its not a bad per say fighting type answer but all can just knock off you its not a great copper check cause stone edge exists and toge can use electric stab duraladon can use its dracos or just tbolt u to death esc knocks off u and Flame Body isn't 100% so u cant always rely on flame body
Now talon isn't a bad poke per say but S feels too much S-/A+ seems more appropriate
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Hello, I feel that there seems to be some misinformation with regards to Talonflame and the reasoning behind why it should drop to S-. I got PMd on PS asking about Talon, which is why I decided to make this post.
Talonflame's role in the tier is as a fast pivot, status spreader, Fighting check, and occasionally as a Defogger. Unless you are running an offensive variant of Talon, it is not designed to OHKO many of its "checks" such as Passimian, Copperajah, Vileplume, and Tsareena (seriously, half of those aren't even checks lmao). Yes, both Pass and Copper can hit Talon with a Rock type move, and so can others. However, how is Pass going to use Rock Slide if it's locked into CC? How is Copper going to use Rock Slide/Stone Edge consistently if it gets burned or U-turned on? Sure, 0 Atk Talon can't OHKO Pass or Plume, but it still does considerable damage that is hard for them to recover. How about its real checks? Vaporeon gets U-turned on because why would you ever keep Talon in? And if you switch your Talonflame into a Blastoise, you probably deserve the L. You can't say a Pokemon is weak to 2 Pokemon then go on to say it is bad.
Talonflame has good role compression and fills some voids really well. However, it should still drop to S- due to Machamp being a better Fighting type than Sirfetch'd and more teams being much more careful with status due to Vileplume's recent surge of viability. Machamp isn't a long story, it doesn't worry about status and can deal big damage by clicking funny buttons. Silvally-Ground, as we all know, has become a menace ever since Bronzong has left. This is a big reason as to why Vileplume has gained so much popularity. Due to that, more teams have been running Heal Bell. Talon doesn't like it when the opposing Copper, Pass, Silvally, etc. aren't keeping their burn. As a side note, 2 of the 3 Pokemon who run Heal Bell check Talon.
I'm done explaining why Talon should be S- for the right reasons, so let's get into a new nom or 2, idk, I haven't fully thought it out yet.
C --> B-
In the current state of NU, Goodra and Silvally-Ground are the best breakers in the tier. So until one gets the boot, this nom is valid. Sneasel is faster than both Groundvally and Goodra while packing a move that neither of them likes, Icicle Crash, not Triple Axel due to Rocky Helm, Vileplume, and Talon. STAB Knock Off is also really great, as it is a funny button at +2. Sneasel is also able to outspeed non-Scarf Mowtom, Heliolisk, and Tauros, which are all scary fastmons. It's only real setbacks are Talon, Scarf Pass, Salazzle, and Diancie, but nothing is perfect, especially the B- Pokemon.
Turns out it was only Sneasel, so you are done reading my post :)
Talonflame's role in the tier is as a fast pivot, status spreader, Fighting check, and occasionally as a Defogger. Unless you are running an offensive variant of Talon, it is not designed to OHKO many of its "checks" such as Passimian, Copperajah, Vileplume, and Tsareena (seriously, half of those aren't even checks lmao). Yes, both Pass and Copper can hit Talon with a Rock type move, and so can others. However, how is Pass going to use Rock Slide if it's locked into CC? How is Copper going to use Rock Slide/Stone Edge consistently if it gets burned or U-turned on? Sure, 0 Atk Talon can't OHKO Pass or Plume, but it still does considerable damage that is hard for them to recover. How about its real checks? Vaporeon gets U-turned on because why would you ever keep Talon in? And if you switch your Talonflame into a Blastoise, you probably deserve the L. You can't say a Pokemon is weak to 2 Pokemon then go on to say it is bad.
Talonflame has good role compression and fills some voids really well. However, it should still drop to S- due to Machamp being a better Fighting type than Sirfetch'd and more teams being much more careful with status due to Vileplume's recent surge of viability. Machamp isn't a long story, it doesn't worry about status and can deal big damage by clicking funny buttons. Silvally-Ground, as we all know, has become a menace ever since Bronzong has left. This is a big reason as to why Vileplume has gained so much popularity. Due to that, more teams have been running Heal Bell. Talon doesn't like it when the opposing Copper, Pass, Silvally, etc. aren't keeping their burn. As a side note, 2 of the 3 Pokemon who run Heal Bell check Talon.
I'm done explaining why Talon should be S- for the right reasons, so let's get into a new nom or 2, idk, I haven't fully thought it out yet.
C --> B-In the current state of NU, Goodra and Silvally-Ground are the best breakers in the tier. So until one gets the boot, this nom is valid. Sneasel is faster than both Groundvally and Goodra while packing a move that neither of them likes, Icicle Crash, not Triple Axel due to Rocky Helm, Vileplume, and Talon. STAB Knock Off is also really great, as it is a funny button at +2. Sneasel is also able to outspeed non-Scarf Mowtom, Heliolisk, and Tauros, which are all scary fastmons. It's only real setbacks are Talon, Scarf Pass, Salazzle, and Diancie, but nothing is perfect, especially the B- Pokemon.
Turns out it was only Sneasel, so you are done reading my post :)
Wanted to talk about the electrics available to us before the next vote.
UR -> B
After a few weeks messing around with galvantula (mostly on HO, but a few times as a standalone mon), I've decided to nom it because this thing is a menace. On HO, it obviously runs webs, which contrary to popular belief is actually very strong rn, carrying me in both this and the last round of NU Winter League against Lucario and Danny respectively. Being the only webber that actually beats Xatu already makes it better than ribombee and araq in my books, especially when you consider it can safely infestation on turn 1 with sash to guarantee webs going up or Xatu getting sent to kingdom come. It also provides plenty of utility to HO teams with a 100% accurate thunder wave, and an extremely strong base 120 STAB in thunder. It can also run scarf/specs and use both better than shitmon heliolisk, actually KO'ing blastoise with scarf and dishing out better damage in general, along with that juicy 30% para chance (more like 100% if you're skilled like me).
B+ -> B-
Everyone thinks this mon is shit, just take a look at the personal VR thread and you'll see for yourself. Doesn't provide much other than speed control and a water immunity, and is very abusable by omnipresent protect mons. It also has negative bulk and dies to any stray physical hit. Boots and ebelt are gaining popularity but at that point just use starmie or goodra.
UR -> B After a few weeks messing around with galvantula (mostly on HO, but a few times as a standalone mon), I've decided to nom it because this thing is a menace. On HO, it obviously runs webs, which contrary to popular belief is actually very strong rn, carrying me in both this and the last round of NU Winter League against Lucario and Danny respectively. Being the only webber that actually beats Xatu already makes it better than ribombee and araq in my books, especially when you consider it can safely infestation on turn 1 with sash to guarantee webs going up or Xatu getting sent to kingdom come. It also provides plenty of utility to HO teams with a 100% accurate thunder wave, and an extremely strong base 120 STAB in thunder. It can also run scarf/specs and use both better than shitmon heliolisk, actually KO'ing blastoise with scarf and dishing out better damage in general, along with that juicy 30% para chance (more like 100% if you're skilled like me).
B+ -> B-Everyone thinks this mon is shit, just take a look at the personal VR thread and you'll see for yourself. Doesn't provide much other than speed control and a water immunity, and is very abusable by omnipresent protect mons. It also has negative bulk and dies to any stray physical hit. Boots and ebelt are gaining popularity but at that point just use starmie or goodra.
Talonflame is obviously known for its speed tier but looking at pretty much everything on the VR, there really isn't much it safely switches into besides Sylveon, Comfey, Arcanine, and perhaps defensive Dhelmise/Decidueye. Switching Talonflame into an expecting Knock Off really sucks and yes a burn from Flame Body is a nice trade but if we look at the tier, the majority of teams consist of a Heal Bell and Knock Off users like Scrafty and Machamp. Its high Speed is great for crippling slower Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp or Toxic and its U-turn moment is amazing.
Well, the idea is you OHKO Talonflame on the incoming switch in honestly. Talonflame obviously has a nice place in the metagame especially because of its High Speed outpacing threats like Goodra, Silvally-Ground, and Starmie. Goodra / Diancie / Rotom-C / Silvally-G / Sylveon are some really impressive Pokemon to name as well.
Just a quick post of my thoughts on the current meta
UR -> B-
Hot take #1: I really like virizion in the current meta as it is a hard counter to Sivally-ground and allows virizion to get a free swords dance. Also takes the hit from shell smash blastoise at +2 and is good at revenge killing goodra. Having amazing to good matchups against the 3 most annoying pokemon in the tier is absolutely amazing. Also because of the lack of base speed 100s in the tier virizion can afford to run less speed ivs to make its already impressive bulk even more impressive. Can tank hits from counters such as starmie xatu and salazzle and ohko them back. Good at keeping momentum as many offensive mons cant switch in such as starmie, tauros, salazzle, and talonflame. Best counters are slow non threatening poison types. Also justified is really nice with all of the knockoff spam in the tier.
Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Def / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
Best set IMO also a showcase of what is possible with ivs.
B+ ->C+
I still dont understand how this thing is rated so highly it literally is one of the most disappointing mons I have ever used. Does not have a significant or viable niche really at all IMO. Tons of other options that are better at speed control and dealing damage.
UR -> B-/B
Helioisk except it actually fulfills a niche and does the job it is supposed to do. Not only that webs is very good with galvantula as it punishes almost every defogger, rapid spin user, or xatu as a magic bounce user so webs are getting up consistently. Also it can run the SAME scarf set niche as helioisk except it actually works. Thunder gives it enough power to consistently OHKO blastoise and galvantula is also still faster than blastoise after shell smash. It does not get stalled out by vaporeon unlike helioisk. Bug stab is also way better than normal stab because of the prevalence of mons such as rotom mow and tsareena.
B- -> B+/A-
Has no switch ins and also does not have to rely on crits unlike with sirfetched. Deals consistent damage more frequently than farfetched giving it a reason to be used over sir fetched.
B -> B+
I am a rhydon fanatic and am clearly biased as I have already written a multiple page report on why Rhydon is so amazing previously in this thread.
just some quick scattered thoughts.
Very easy for rhydon to be invited in because of salazzle and talonflame. I think the best set for rhydon right now is running SD 3 attacks instead of stealth rock. Mainly because it has heat crash which completely destroys one of the most annoying mons and would be checks vileplume. Also I think there are better dedicated rockers which should take the roll over rhydon anyways. Really bulky takes multiple hits great core pairing with wish pass sylveon.
A -> A+/S-
Hot take #2: One of the best setup mons in the tier but I think it is extremely overrated by the playerbase as being unstoppable or uncounterable. There are many hard checks such as virizion, mudsdale, weezing(esp rocky helmet weezing), Mesprit, literally anything with levitate. Does not have access to smack down either so it can not run that against levitate mons. If you have a ground immunity it has a much harder time breaking through. Can be revenge killed pretty easily by faster choice scarfers. Still an absolute beast though I just don't think it is nearly as suspect worthy as people say it is.
A+ -> S-
Super busted one of the few mons I can have on my team and it instantly hard walls 3 to 5 pokemon on the opposing players team.
S -> to A+
A wall that does not wall. I swear that literally every single pokemon has coverage to destroy diancie. Tauros with iron head, braviary with iron head, goodra with iron tail, sivally-ground etc. There are just a bunch of mons that are super unfriendly to diancie that make its life much harder in this meta. Would rather use just about any other pokemon that is better at setting up rocks. Sylveon and Vaporeon also run heal bell way better than diancie.
Hot take #1: I really like virizion in the current meta as it is a hard counter to Sivally-ground and allows virizion to get a free swords dance. Also takes the hit from shell smash blastoise at +2 and is good at revenge killing goodra. Having amazing to good matchups against the 3 most annoying pokemon in the tier is absolutely amazing. Also because of the lack of base speed 100s in the tier virizion can afford to run less speed ivs to make its already impressive bulk even more impressive. Can tank hits from counters such as starmie xatu and salazzle and ohko them back. Good at keeping momentum as many offensive mons cant switch in such as starmie, tauros, salazzle, and talonflame. Best counters are slow non threatening poison types. Also justified is really nice with all of the knockoff spam in the tier.
Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Def / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
Best set IMO also a showcase of what is possible with ivs.
I still dont understand how this thing is rated so highly it literally is one of the most disappointing mons I have ever used. Does not have a significant or viable niche really at all IMO. Tons of other options that are better at speed control and dealing damage.
UR -> B-/BHelioisk except it actually fulfills a niche and does the job it is supposed to do. Not only that webs is very good with galvantula as it punishes almost every defogger, rapid spin user, or xatu as a magic bounce user so webs are getting up consistently. Also it can run the SAME scarf set niche as helioisk except it actually works. Thunder gives it enough power to consistently OHKO blastoise and galvantula is also still faster than blastoise after shell smash. It does not get stalled out by vaporeon unlike helioisk. Bug stab is also way better than normal stab because of the prevalence of mons such as rotom mow and tsareena.
B- -> B+/A-Has no switch ins and also does not have to rely on crits unlike with sirfetched. Deals consistent damage more frequently than farfetched giving it a reason to be used over sir fetched.
B -> B+I am a rhydon fanatic and am clearly biased as I have already written a multiple page report on why Rhydon is so amazing previously in this thread.
just some quick scattered thoughts.
Very easy for rhydon to be invited in because of salazzle and talonflame. I think the best set for rhydon right now is running SD 3 attacks instead of stealth rock. Mainly because it has heat crash which completely destroys one of the most annoying mons and would be checks vileplume. Also I think there are better dedicated rockers which should take the roll over rhydon anyways. Really bulky takes multiple hits great core pairing with wish pass sylveon.
A -> A+/S- Hot take #2: One of the best setup mons in the tier but I think it is extremely overrated by the playerbase as being unstoppable or uncounterable. There are many hard checks such as virizion, mudsdale, weezing(esp rocky helmet weezing), Mesprit, literally anything with levitate. Does not have access to smack down either so it can not run that against levitate mons. If you have a ground immunity it has a much harder time breaking through. Can be revenge killed pretty easily by faster choice scarfers. Still an absolute beast though I just don't think it is nearly as suspect worthy as people say it is.
A+ -> S-Super busted one of the few mons I can have on my team and it instantly hard walls 3 to 5 pokemon on the opposing players team.
S -> to A+A wall that does not wall. I swear that literally every single pokemon has coverage to destroy diancie. Tauros with iron head, braviary with iron head, goodra with iron tail, sivally-ground etc. There are just a bunch of mons that are super unfriendly to diancie that make its life much harder in this meta. Would rather use just about any other pokemon that is better at setting up rocks. Sylveon and Vaporeon also run heal bell way better than diancie.
What are people thinking about raising Indeedee-F?
It has a great ability in combination with STAB Expanding Force, allowing it to wallbreak effectively. I know that it greatly struggles because of Knock Off but other than that it doesn’t have any big weaknesses. As a special attacker it can avoid Talonflame’s flame body and rocky helmet.
It has a great ability in combination with STAB Expanding Force, allowing it to wallbreak effectively. I know that it greatly struggles because of Knock Off but other than that it doesn’t have any big weaknesses. As a special attacker it can avoid Talonflame’s flame body and rocky helmet.
C+ -> B+/B
Indeedee-F is pretty underrated and I definitely support the quoted post. It is probably one of the bigger beneficiaries of Bronzong leaving the tier, as now it can really just spam Expanding Force to no end. These offensive capabilities are further supported by Mystical Fire now actually being able to fulfill its role as a way to deal with Steel-types. It also has amazing utility as a Scarf user due to Trick and Healing Wish. Overall, this mon definitely deserves a rise, as even if it had a... questionable record at NUSD, I still think this thing can be explored.
Wanted to make two quick UR to VR nominations as the Goodra suspect test comes to a close.
Scyther has seen very mild tournament usage lately and I think hasn't been talked about enough; its high speed and great movepool and natural bulk make it a very potent ally on bulky VoltTurn teams. Technician makes Dual Wingbeat an actual good move, STAB U-Turn is nothing to scoff at when backed by a very high attack stat, and having access to Knock Off to cripple the Flying- and Fire-types that rely on Heavy-Duty boots and Steel-types that rely on Leftovers to consistently check you is very nice. Scyther's own reliance on Heavy-Duty Boots can be a detriment at times but I think Scyther at the very least deserves a spot somewhere on the VR.
Exeggutor boasts an incredible Special Attack stat with extremely high base power moves such in Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor with amazing coverage in Flamethrower. It can also viably use SD sets and the item is very flexible, often using Choice Specs, Life Orb, or a berry like Sitrus, Custap, or Salac with the ability Harvest, although Frisk is also an amazing ability. Exeggutor's niche lies in destroying the class balance core of Vaporeon + Ground type + Steel type but can also exert offensive pressure against any team and is able to find opportunities to switch in thanks to its double-edged typing.
Scyther has seen very mild tournament usage lately and I think hasn't been talked about enough; its high speed and great movepool and natural bulk make it a very potent ally on bulky VoltTurn teams. Technician makes Dual Wingbeat an actual good move, STAB U-Turn is nothing to scoff at when backed by a very high attack stat, and having access to Knock Off to cripple the Flying- and Fire-types that rely on Heavy-Duty boots and Steel-types that rely on Leftovers to consistently check you is very nice. Scyther's own reliance on Heavy-Duty Boots can be a detriment at times but I think Scyther at the very least deserves a spot somewhere on the VR.
Exeggutor boasts an incredible Special Attack stat with extremely high base power moves such in Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor with amazing coverage in Flamethrower. It can also viably use SD sets and the item is very flexible, often using Choice Specs, Life Orb, or a berry like Sitrus, Custap, or Salac with the ability Harvest, although Frisk is also an amazing ability. Exeggutor's niche lies in destroying the class balance core of Vaporeon + Ground type + Steel type but can also exert offensive pressure against any team and is able to find opportunities to switch in thanks to its double-edged typing.
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Espeon UR —> C+
Espeon is one of the few NU Pokémon that can put enemies to sleep, it also has access to dream eater letting it threaten foes even more when they are asleep, with access to Calm Mind it can set up when a foe is asleep, if the other player switches you still get a free set up turn.
It can also switch out after Yawn to let other Pokémon like Swords Dance Toxicroak, Nasty Plot Decidyueye, Shell Smash Blastoise and more set up safer. Yawn is also a great method to force enemies to switch when a foe doesn’t suit you.
Although it lacks bulk and is crippled by Knock Off it can force set up sweepers to either retreat and lose their set up or risk letting you set up.
Aerodactyl C —> C+/B-
Aerodactyl has access to Stealth Rock and Defog Letting you set up Stealth Rock early on and remove everything if your enemy is playing some kind of Spikes + Poison Spikes kind of thing.
It threatens Talonflame and Xatu with STAB Rock Slide and it threatens Diancie and Raichu-A with Earthquake.
It’s abilities are also great, Rock Head let’s it use double-edge effectively, pressure threatens Pokémon like Passimian whilst with moves like Close Combat or Pokémon that use Sucker Punch, Unnerve lets it blockenemies from healingwith berries, which can be useful to prevent enemies from recovering from it’s STAB moves.
Diancie S —> A/A-
It is checked by Shell Smash Blastoise, Passimian, Rotom-C and Decidyueye, making it one of the easiest walls to wallbreak.
I know it’s main job is Stealth Rock setter and Healing Bell user but Vaporeon and Sylveon are better with Healing Bell and, Aerodactyl and Mudsdale are better at setting up Stealth Rock than Diancie.
Espeon is one of the few NU Pokémon that can put enemies to sleep, it also has access to dream eater letting it threaten foes even more when they are asleep, with access to Calm Mind it can set up when a foe is asleep, if the other player switches you still get a free set up turn.
It can also switch out after Yawn to let other Pokémon like Swords Dance Toxicroak, Nasty Plot Decidyueye, Shell Smash Blastoise and more set up safer. Yawn is also a great method to force enemies to switch when a foe doesn’t suit you.
Although it lacks bulk and is crippled by Knock Off it can force set up sweepers to either retreat and lose their set up or risk letting you set up.
Aerodactyl C —> C+/B-
Aerodactyl has access to Stealth Rock and Defog Letting you set up Stealth Rock early on and remove everything if your enemy is playing some kind of Spikes + Poison Spikes kind of thing.
It threatens Talonflame and Xatu with STAB Rock Slide and it threatens Diancie and Raichu-A with Earthquake.
It’s abilities are also great, Rock Head let’s it use double-edge effectively, pressure threatens Pokémon like Passimian whilst with moves like Close Combat or Pokémon that use Sucker Punch, Unnerve lets it blockenemies from healingwith berries, which can be useful to prevent enemies from recovering from it’s STAB moves.
Diancie S —> A/A-
It is checked by Shell Smash Blastoise, Passimian, Rotom-C and Decidyueye, making it one of the easiest walls to wallbreak.
I know it’s main job is Stealth Rock setter and Healing Bell user but Vaporeon and Sylveon are better with Healing Bell and, Aerodactyl and Mudsdale are better at setting up Stealth Rock than Diancie.
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Defog also clears the hazards you set up.Espeon UR —> C+
Espeon is one of the few NU Pokémon that can put enemies to sleep, it also has access to dream eater letting it threaten foes even more when they are asleep, with access to Calm Mind it can set up when a foe is asleep, if the other player switches you still get a free set up turn.
It can also switch out after Yawn to let other Pokémon like Swords Dance Toxicroak, Nasty Plot Decidyueye, Shell Smash Blastoise and more set up safer. Yawn is also a great method to force enemies to switch when a foe doesn’t suit you.
Although it lacks bulk and is crippled by Knock Off it can force set up sweepers to either retreat and lose their set up or risk letting you set up.
Aerodactyl C —> C+/B-
Aerodactyl has access to Stealth Rock and Defog Letting you set up Stealth Rock early on and remove everything if your enemy is playing some kind of Spikes + Poison Spikes kind of thing.
It threatens Talonflame and Xatu with STAB Rock Slide and it threatens Diancie and Raichu-A with Earthquake.
It’s abilities are also great, Rock Head let’s it use double-edge effectively, pressure threatens Pokémon like Passimian whilst with moves like Close Combat or Pokémon that use Sucker Punch, Unnerve lets it blockenemies from healingwith berries, which can be useful to prevent enemies from recovering from it’s STAB moves.
Diancie S —> A/A-
It is checked by Shell Smash Blastoise, Passimian, Rotom-C and Decidyueye, making it one of the easiest walls to wallbreak.
I know it’s main job is Stealth Rock setter and Healing Bell user but Vaporeon and Sylveon are better with Healing Bell and, Aerodactyl and Mudsdale are better at setting up Stealth Rock than Diancie.
Putting a mon to sleep isn't exactly Espeons niche and it doesn't even do it reliably. Sure, Yawn probably works with like screens or whatever but again, not that great of a niche atm. Uxie can do exactly the same and has access to uturn to bring in mons safely. Calm Mind sets struggle greatly vs the steel types too, Dream Eater is not a viable move on Espeon btw.
Aerodactyl's best sets are either a suicide stealth rocker on Hyper Offense teams or 3 attacks life orb sets with roost. Like you said it does well at threatening common flying types like xatu and talonflame. All the other things you mention don't matter at all whatsoever, sorry to disappoint.
Nitpick but i'm p sure diancie can take a close combat from passimian and blow it back with moonblast and heal bell diancie isn't exactly a set in stone thing. Mudsdale is actually worse at keeping rocks up cause it can't threaten xatu + rotom mow doesnt care about it either.
If you think a certain mon should drop or rise, give actual well-founded arguments. Diancie losing to +2 Blastoise doesn't make Diancie bad in the grand scheme of things.
Ok this is my first time making nominations and I generally hang out at 1300 and 1400 so there is probably more credable opinions than mine but here are my thoughts.
Araquanid B- --> C+
Using webs as him is pretty subpar with his poor matchup to Xatu and for his non web utility I would make an argument Vaporeon kinda outclasses it with Toxic but also Heal Bell, Scald and Wish.
Omastar C+ --> B- or B
Its true that he is ripoff Blastoise but I personally think that he is one of the best suicide leads in the tier with Steath Rock and Spikes. He also can use Shell Smash and Surf to threaten Xatu.
I haven't won tournaments with him but I'll atleast use a clip to demonstrate how it can work against good players.
Https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1489753533
Galvantula UR --> B
I really agree with Phantomistix on this one, beint able to counter pokemon that can otherwise stop web from staying up like Xatu and Tsareena is a great asset to helping sweepers like Silvally Ground and Tyrantrum overwelm the opponent.
Araquanid B- --> C+
Using webs as him is pretty subpar with his poor matchup to Xatu and for his non web utility I would make an argument Vaporeon kinda outclasses it with Toxic but also Heal Bell, Scald and Wish.
Omastar C+ --> B- or B
Its true that he is ripoff Blastoise but I personally think that he is one of the best suicide leads in the tier with Steath Rock and Spikes. He also can use Shell Smash and Surf to threaten Xatu.
I haven't won tournaments with him but I'll atleast use a clip to demonstrate how it can work against good players.
Https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1489753533
Galvantula UR --> B
I really agree with Phantomistix on this one, beint able to counter pokemon that can otherwise stop web from staying up like Xatu and Tsareena is a great asset to helping sweepers like Silvally Ground and Tyrantrum overwelm the opponent.
First of all, welcome to the nu viability thread! I'm just going to provide some more insights to your nominations.
Yes, sticky webs araquanid is almost always a wasted slot vs xatu. However, subtoxic araquanid (araquanids best set), can be difficult to play around. While both are water types, vaporeon and araquanid do completely different things; vaporeon supports your team with Wish, while araquanid wears teams down with a strong liquidation and toxic.
Omastar and like many other "hazard leads" don't have the same power they used to have. A lot of mons run boots and hazard removal is very easy to fit on a team. Dedicated leads like omastar or galvantula often don't have the longevity to stay around long enough in case your hazards get defogged away. Your replay shows omastar getting up hazards but crustle couldve done the same thing, or idk froslass (froslass beats xatu and gets taunt)
About Galvantula; yes it beats Xatu but that's pretty much it. Sticky webs in terms of usefulness is at an all time low this generation and for good reasons like i explained above.
I see thank you, I never really said anything I ranked higher was broken or anything, more or less I think they are worthy alternatives. Like Froslass is the most well known hyper offense lead but being able to hold 2 hazards in 1 set as Omastar is pretty useful too and I don't think is worse by that much.
And Galvantula might be a solid C+ maybe, as a niche but usable lead but I feel like it atleast got some nice value for the role it does.
Araquanid, I think is better than I gave it credit for because of being a good user of substitute but I think he is probably a more niche pokemon so B- or C+ works for me.
Tiering Update:
Sheet found here. This time, we're having turtledoggo1 take the place of Ren-chon, as he is too busy to vote at this time. I rushed the reasonings a bit, so if there's any issues, just let me know.
Sheet found here. This time, we're having turtledoggo1 take the place of Ren-chon, as he is too busy to vote at this time. I rushed the reasonings a bit, so if there's any issues, just let me know.
Rises:
S- -> S
A -> S-
A -> S-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
B- -> B
B- -> B
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C -> B-
UR -> B-
UR -> C+
Drops:
S -> A+
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C+
B- -> C
B- -> C
B- -> UR
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
S- -> S A -> S- A -> S- B+ -> A- B -> B+ B -> B+ B -> B+ B- -> B B- -> B B- -> B B- -> B C+ -> B- C -> B- UR -> B- UR -> C+Drops:
S -> A+ A+ -> A A -> A- A- -> B+ A- -> B+ A- -> B+ A- -> B+ B+ -> B B+ -> B B+ -> B B -> B- B -> B- B- -> C+ B- -> C B- -> C B- -> UR C+ -> C C+ -> C C+ -> C C+ -> C C+ -> UR C -> UR C -> UR C -> URRises:
S- -> S: Rotom-Mow is now harder to punish with the removal of Goodra, it is a potent revenge killer to threats such as Silvally-Ground with Choice Scarf, and it offers a Ground immunity in a time where Ground immunities are harder to come by after the departure of Bronzong.
A -> S-: Copperajah now suffers far less competition from Bronzong, and its best check in Bronzong is also removed from the metagame. Both Heavy Metal and Sheer Force sets are potent attackers that are hard to wall, with the versatility to offer a special wall and Stealth Rocks if your team needs it.
A -> S-: Silvally-Ground is a force to be reckoned with, allowing many teams to fit a much faster Ground-type into their team without giving up much bulk. On top of this, Silvally-Ground has a 120BP Ground-type move that it is able to use alongside Swords Dance and U-Turn to pressure teams until it is able to sweep.
B+ -> A-: Decidueye is a potent sweeper, offering a good meta typing with Grass/Ghost allowing it to resist Ground-type and Water-type attacks without being weak to U-Turn, as well as offering priority to revenge kill threats such as Blastoise and Silvally-Ground.
B -> B+: Rhydon fits into structures where Vaporeon and Mudsdale cannot, condensing a Fire-resist and a Ground-type into one slot. It also offers much more offensive utility, having access to moves such as Heat Crash and Swords Dance, despite its defensive limitations.
B -> B+: Snorlax is a great special wall with the potential to sweep unprepared teams. With less use of Pokemon such as Sirfetch'd that break through it easily, it often can find itself in situations where it can set up and win, while also offering defensive utility in matchups where it isn't as good.
B -> B+: Tsareena has quickly become one of the best Rapid Spinners in the tier, allowing it to take a solid place on Spike stacking teams, or on teams that need removal, Knock Off, and a Grass-type in one slot.
B- -> B: With the same typing as Decidueye, Dhelmise is a consistent defensive check to Ground-types while also offering Rapid Spin and a very powerful STAB combination with 131 Base Attack, Power Whip, and Poltergeist.
B- -> B: Duraludon has found itself onto many offenses with Stealth Rocks + Eject Pack Draco Meteor, but it also can whittle down cores that overly rely on Steel-types defensively and break them down until there's a position to sweep.
B- -> B: Machamp has seen a rise due to the prevalence of Pokemon such as Vileplume, Sylveon, and Talonflame, breaking them much more easily than Sirfetch'd could due to the Guts ability and Facade without having to run into 4MSS.
B- -> B: Weezing offers a great combination of a Ground-type and Fighting-type check with Poison-type and Levitate, also offering many support moves such as Toxic Spikes and Will-o-Wisp to justify its team slot despite being relatively exploitable.
C+ -> B-: Indeedee-F is one of the faster Choice Scarf users, and its Expanding Force can overload many ill-prepared offensive teams that run into it. It also offers great utility, being one of the only viable Healing Wish users in the tier.
C -> B-: Aerodactyl has seen a huge rise in popularity since the departure of Bronzong, as it no longer needs to run Crunch to be able to break teams efficiently. This opens up its moveslots dramatically, giving it much more set versatility rather than being designated solely to a suicide lead.
UR -> B-: Exeggutor-Alola is a versatile pick, recently used with a more utility-focused Harvest + Teleport set to take advantage of Vaporeon as well as to check Ground-Types and assist its offensive teammates. Choice Specs sets are likely good as well, but they are less tested in the current metagame.
UR -> C+: Scyther has become a good option on Bulky Offense, offering a fast STAB U-Turn and Knock Off to whittle teams down for its own sweep or for its teammates.
Drops:
S -> A+: Diancie was likely ranked too high last shift, and although offensive sets are better than ever, the combination of its 4x weakness with its slow speed makes it too exploitable for S rank in the current metagame.
A+ -> A: Guzzlord is still one of the best Ghost-resists in the tier, but it tends to struggle versus the wide usage of Fairy-types, Mudsdale, and Vileplume. The meta has also become less kind to slower cores, making Guzzlord's place in the meta harder to find.
A -> A-: Golurk is often now seen as the inferior offensive Ground-type to Silvally-Ground, as it is much slower despite its ridiculous power. It also offers much less defensive utility than both Silvally-Ground and Mudsdale, making it harder to fit onto defensive teams.
A- -> B+: Drapion struggles in this current meta to find positions to sweep, often finding itself spamming Knock Off to try and chip down the opposing team rather than trying to sweep for a victory.
A- -> B+: Sirfetch'd has more competition for its team slot, offering less consistency than Machamp despite its positives such as First Impression and Scrappy.
A- -> B+: Tauros just doesn't beat defensive structures like it used to, struggling to break down defensive walls despite the high speed and strong STAB. The rise of Pokemon such as Dhelmise and Escavalier also give it a tough time.
A- -> B+: Toxicroak often relies on its ability to sweep, but many find it to be relatively inconsistent at doing so, making it oftentimes a worse option than more consistent Fighting-types such as Passimian.
B+ -> B: Braviary suffers from a lot of the Ghost-types in the tier falling off, making its niche as the best Golurk check not as solid anymore. It also just hasn't been doing as much in the metagame recently, with Bulk Up sets not being as potent as they once were.
B+ -> B: Mantine suffers from a slight 4MSS issue, where adding Defog makes it too passive without Toxic, but dropping one of its STAB moves makes it very exploitable. This has made people turn to other options for removal, and then supporting them with Vaporeon.
B+ -> B: Vanilluxe dropped off because of the Slush Rush ban, but it is still a solid Choice Specs breaker that does its job pretty well after the departure of Bronzong from the tier.
B -> B-: Doublade has just not seen much success at all, often finding itself hard walled by Pokemon such as Mudsdale while being revenge killed by several special attackers and not serving its job as a Steel-type very well.
B -> B-: Spikes are still a good niche, but Garbodor doesn't offer enough by itself, often becoming a weak link to many of these Bulky Offense + Spikes backbones.
B- -> C+: The banning of Slush Rush has made this Pokemon worse, but with Power Herb + Meteor Beam sets seeing use, the opportunity for Aurorus to be a niche breaker is still there.
B- -> C: Comfey lost its best niche in the tier with Bronzong leaving, meaning that it can't set up on any of the tier's Steel-types very well anymore.
B- -> C: Kingdra is, most of the time, just a worse Blastoise, barring the situation where you can set up 2 boosts before dying. Even then, you'll often be killed by a Sylveon who lives your attacks, or an Escavalier with Shell Armor.
B- -> UR: Slush Rush isn't legal.
C+ -> C: Xatu is still good, but with many other removal options, there isn't as much of a niche for setting up Stealth Rocks versus Magic Bounce.
C+ -> C: A bulky win condition that often doesn't sweep due to its speed, and often struggles to break past strong cores without assistance.
C+ -> C: Ninjask has largely fallen off due to being much weaker than Scyther, and while its speed tier offers a lot, it is still exploitable due to how little damage it tends to do.
C+ -> C: Omastar is also often a worse Blastoise, with a 50/50 chance to kill Vaporeon with Meteor Beam and very little else going for it.
C+ -> UR: Beating IDBP Bronzong doesn't mean anything anymore.
C -> UR: Ghost-types are worse, so Silvally-Ghost is worse. Also, most Hyper Offenses opt to run Silvally-Ground instead.
C -> UR: Virtually no usage recently, I forgot what this did.
C -> UR: Uxie moment.
S- -> S: Rotom-Mow is now harder to punish with the removal of Goodra, it is a potent revenge killer to threats such as Silvally-Ground with Choice Scarf, and it offers a Ground immunity in a time where Ground immunities are harder to come by after the departure of Bronzong. A -> S-: Copperajah now suffers far less competition from Bronzong, and its best check in Bronzong is also removed from the metagame. Both Heavy Metal and Sheer Force sets are potent attackers that are hard to wall, with the versatility to offer a special wall and Stealth Rocks if your team needs it. A -> S-: Silvally-Ground is a force to be reckoned with, allowing many teams to fit a much faster Ground-type into their team without giving up much bulk. On top of this, Silvally-Ground has a 120BP Ground-type move that it is able to use alongside Swords Dance and U-Turn to pressure teams until it is able to sweep. B+ -> A-: Decidueye is a potent sweeper, offering a good meta typing with Grass/Ghost allowing it to resist Ground-type and Water-type attacks without being weak to U-Turn, as well as offering priority to revenge kill threats such as Blastoise and Silvally-Ground. B -> B+: Rhydon fits into structures where Vaporeon and Mudsdale cannot, condensing a Fire-resist and a Ground-type into one slot. It also offers much more offensive utility, having access to moves such as Heat Crash and Swords Dance, despite its defensive limitations. B -> B+: Snorlax is a great special wall with the potential to sweep unprepared teams. With less use of Pokemon such as Sirfetch'd that break through it easily, it often can find itself in situations where it can set up and win, while also offering defensive utility in matchups where it isn't as good. B -> B+: Tsareena has quickly become one of the best Rapid Spinners in the tier, allowing it to take a solid place on Spike stacking teams, or on teams that need removal, Knock Off, and a Grass-type in one slot. B- -> B: With the same typing as Decidueye, Dhelmise is a consistent defensive check to Ground-types while also offering Rapid Spin and a very powerful STAB combination with 131 Base Attack, Power Whip, and Poltergeist. B- -> B: Duraludon has found itself onto many offenses with Stealth Rocks + Eject Pack Draco Meteor, but it also can whittle down cores that overly rely on Steel-types defensively and break them down until there's a position to sweep. B- -> B: Machamp has seen a rise due to the prevalence of Pokemon such as Vileplume, Sylveon, and Talonflame, breaking them much more easily than Sirfetch'd could due to the Guts ability and Facade without having to run into 4MSS. B- -> B: Weezing offers a great combination of a Ground-type and Fighting-type check with Poison-type and Levitate, also offering many support moves such as Toxic Spikes and Will-o-Wisp to justify its team slot despite being relatively exploitable. C+ -> B-: Indeedee-F is one of the faster Choice Scarf users, and its Expanding Force can overload many ill-prepared offensive teams that run into it. It also offers great utility, being one of the only viable Healing Wish users in the tier. C -> B-: Aerodactyl has seen a huge rise in popularity since the departure of Bronzong, as it no longer needs to run Crunch to be able to break teams efficiently. This opens up its moveslots dramatically, giving it much more set versatility rather than being designated solely to a suicide lead. UR -> B-: Exeggutor-Alola is a versatile pick, recently used with a more utility-focused Harvest + Teleport set to take advantage of Vaporeon as well as to check Ground-Types and assist its offensive teammates. Choice Specs sets are likely good as well, but they are less tested in the current metagame. UR -> C+: Scyther has become a good option on Bulky Offense, offering a fast STAB U-Turn and Knock Off to whittle teams down for its own sweep or for its teammates.Drops:
S -> A+: Diancie was likely ranked too high last shift, and although offensive sets are better than ever, the combination of its 4x weakness with its slow speed makes it too exploitable for S rank in the current metagame. A+ -> A: Guzzlord is still one of the best Ghost-resists in the tier, but it tends to struggle versus the wide usage of Fairy-types, Mudsdale, and Vileplume. The meta has also become less kind to slower cores, making Guzzlord's place in the meta harder to find. A -> A-: Golurk is often now seen as the inferior offensive Ground-type to Silvally-Ground, as it is much slower despite its ridiculous power. It also offers much less defensive utility than both Silvally-Ground and Mudsdale, making it harder to fit onto defensive teams. A- -> B+: Drapion struggles in this current meta to find positions to sweep, often finding itself spamming Knock Off to try and chip down the opposing team rather than trying to sweep for a victory. A- -> B+: Sirfetch'd has more competition for its team slot, offering less consistency than Machamp despite its positives such as First Impression and Scrappy. A- -> B+: Tauros just doesn't beat defensive structures like it used to, struggling to break down defensive walls despite the high speed and strong STAB. The rise of Pokemon such as Dhelmise and Escavalier also give it a tough time. A- -> B+: Toxicroak often relies on its ability to sweep, but many find it to be relatively inconsistent at doing so, making it oftentimes a worse option than more consistent Fighting-types such as Passimian. B+ -> B: Braviary suffers from a lot of the Ghost-types in the tier falling off, making its niche as the best Golurk check not as solid anymore. It also just hasn't been doing as much in the metagame recently, with Bulk Up sets not being as potent as they once were. B+ -> B: Mantine suffers from a slight 4MSS issue, where adding Defog makes it too passive without Toxic, but dropping one of its STAB moves makes it very exploitable. This has made people turn to other options for removal, and then supporting them with Vaporeon. B+ -> B: Vanilluxe dropped off because of the Slush Rush ban, but it is still a solid Choice Specs breaker that does its job pretty well after the departure of Bronzong from the tier. B -> B-: Doublade has just not seen much success at all, often finding itself hard walled by Pokemon such as Mudsdale while being revenge killed by several special attackers and not serving its job as a Steel-type very well. B -> B-: Spikes are still a good niche, but Garbodor doesn't offer enough by itself, often becoming a weak link to many of these Bulky Offense + Spikes backbones. B- -> C+: The banning of Slush Rush has made this Pokemon worse, but with Power Herb + Meteor Beam sets seeing use, the opportunity for Aurorus to be a niche breaker is still there. B- -> C: Comfey lost its best niche in the tier with Bronzong leaving, meaning that it can't set up on any of the tier's Steel-types very well anymore. B- -> C: Kingdra is, most of the time, just a worse Blastoise, barring the situation where you can set up 2 boosts before dying. Even then, you'll often be killed by a Sylveon who lives your attacks, or an Escavalier with Shell Armor. B- -> UR: Slush Rush isn't legal. C+ -> C: Xatu is still good, but with many other removal options, there isn't as much of a niche for setting up Stealth Rocks versus Magic Bounce. C+ -> C: A bulky win condition that often doesn't sweep due to its speed, and often struggles to break past strong cores without assistance. C+ -> C: Ninjask has largely fallen off due to being much weaker than Scyther, and while its speed tier offers a lot, it is still exploitable due to how little damage it tends to do. C+ -> C: Omastar is also often a worse Blastoise, with a 50/50 chance to kill Vaporeon with Meteor Beam and very little else going for it. C+ -> UR: Beating IDBP Bronzong doesn't mean anything anymore. C -> UR: Ghost-types are worse, so Silvally-Ghost is worse. Also, most Hyper Offenses opt to run Silvally-Ground instead. C -> UR: Virtually no usage recently, I forgot what this did. C -> UR: Uxie moment.- Status