Snorlax (life Orb Attacker)

[Curtains]

Changes in bold

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/snorlax

[SET]
name: Life Orb Attacker
move 1: Return/Body slam
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Superpower/Earthquake
move 4: Rest
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
Ability: Thick fat
evs: 4hp /252 Atk / 252 Sdef

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Excellent counter to Special attackers
-Knocks Out many frail pokemon like jolteon and infernape.
-Return can be used at will to cause massive damage to switch ins with stealth rock down
-With thick fat this becomes one of the best Heatran checks outside of blissey.
-Has the power to be a effective trapper
-Guarrantees the KO on the switch out with either 1 Lo recoil, 1 sandstorm buff, stealth rock up on LO starmie.
-Currently no similar sets on-site

Additional Comments:
-Lum berry can be used to make rest last 1 turn. This also prevents breloom from setting up with spore although you lose the ko's on a lot of pokemon.
-Superpower aids in defeating blissey/heatran and tyranitar.Earthquake can give you the edge on pokemon like jirachi and metagross, its the users taste.
- With the epic amount of Fire grass and water type core teams going around snorlax fits in perfectly to check this annoying metagame.
-Crunch is an option for greater base power if they stay in. its also a more cleaner option against rotom-a


Teammates and Counters:
-Vaporeon works well with this snorlax. Vaporeon can take infernapes hits and threaten it with a STAB surf. Heal bell can relieve snorlax of status issues and also it can pass wishes.Vaporeon can lure in pokemon snorlax likes to see like rotom-a, LO starmie and jolteon.
-Like all snorlax sets this is walled by scarmory. this is where a bulky special attacker like vaporeon and suicune come in as they can scare off skarmory. (Crocune comes to mind as a decent partner)
-Wish support is helpful here as it can return hp after LO recoil/sand/stealth rock.
-machamp is dealt with by prediction. if you can predict a switch and use return/body slam then another pokemon can step in and finish it off without having to 2hko it.
-With proper team support this thing can open up frail offensive teams and most of the time give you the edge and the moment of choice.
-Rotom-W is a good teammate for this set because it can come in on infernape and skarmory and threaten them with hydro pump and thunderbolt respectively.

LO vs leftovers :

-LO snorlax earthquake vs Wish CM rachi = 50.5% - 59.4%
-Leftovers Snorlax earthquake (same ev's) vs Wish CM rachi = 39.1% - 46%

-Lo snorlax vs 3 attacks machamp = 66.6% - 78.6%
-leftovers (same ev's) = 51.2% - 60.6%

-Leftovers Offensive lax Body slam vs Wish bliss = 34.5% - 40.8%
-LO snorlax Superpower vs wish Blissey = 84% - 99.2%

-LO Snorlax return vs offensive gyarados after intimidate = 51.7% - 61%
-Leftovers return (same ev's) vs Offensive gyarados after intimidate= 39.9% - 47.1%

 

[Despotar]

Add Rotom forms as a good teammate, (Particularly Rotom-W) as they are perfect counters for Infernape and Skarm, and get good Syenergy with Snorlax overall.

 

[Delko]

Chesto Berry > Lum Berry in AC.
You should also put in Crunch as an option.

 

[Alan]

selfdestruct should be slashed with pursuit imo

 

[TubaKing]

This is extremely similar to the Offensive Lax set in the analysis.
Does Life Orb grant any significant KOs/2HKOs that Offensive Lax does not?
Dependence on having another member of your team to cure Snorlax of Sleep, or possibly doing nothing for two turns as your opponent sets up seems rather risky to me with Rest as the only option for the fourth move slot.
In short, how is this set superior to the Offensive Lax already on site? All of the reasons you've listed for this set deserving an analysis are also true of Offensive Lax.
Additionally:

-Knocks Out many frail pokemon like jolteon and infernape.

He can only KO Infernape on the predicted switch in. Snorlax should never stay in on Infernape.

-Guarrantees the KO on the switch out with either 1 Lo recoil, 1 sandstorm buff, stealth rock up.

To who?

-Currently no similar sets on-site

Offensive Lax, as far as I can tell thus far, does all the same things that this set does, but does so without worrying about Life Orb recoil or being set-up on after using Rest.

EDIT: Also, if there are significant advantages to Life Orb and Rest, couldn't they be slashed in the Offensive Lax set, or put in the AC/OO of that set?

 

[Ice-eyes]

I don't really see the point to Rest. It's too long out of the match for an offensive poke, killing your momentum. Definitely make it a secondary slash behind Crunch and/or Selfdestruct.

Draw attention to notable KOs vs Lefties variants.

 

[Curtains]

This is extremely similar to the Offensive Lax set in the analysis.
Does Life Orb grant any significant KOs/2HKOs that Offensive Lax does not?
Dependence on having another member of your team to cure Snorlax of Sleep, or possibly doing nothing for two turns as your opponent sets up seems rather risky to me with Rest as the only option for the fourth move slot.
In short, how is this set superior to the Offensive Lax already on site? All of the reasons you've listed for this set deserving an analysis are also true of Offensive Lax.
Additionally:
He can only KO Infernape on the predicted switch in. Snorlax should never stay in on Infernape.
To who?
Offensive Lax, as far as I can tell thus far, does all the same things that this set does, but does so without worrying about Life Orb recoil or being set-up on after using Rest.

EDIT: Also, if there are significant advantages to Life Orb and Rest, couldn't they be slashed in the Offensive Lax set, or put in the AC/OO of that set?

hmm this is the only set i can see that has pursuit.

 

[QibingZero]

A couple issues:

- What does Life Orb do for Snorlax? Going LO over Leftovers is a huge, huge drop in survivability, and in order to give that up you'd have to turn some 2HKOs into OHKOs or something. Do you have some examples?

- Suicune and Vaporeon are definitely not good pokemon to use to scare off Skarmory, especially considering SpDef versions can set up all over them.

- The use of Rest seems troublesome here. With no Leftovers support, you're going to have a hard time actually waking back up along the course of a match. It seems like you just thought LO + recovery would be a good idea, but Rest without either Sleep Talk or Curse (or even a berry) is not going to get you far.

 

[TubaKing]

Here is Phil's QC Round. He intends to add Pursuit to the Choice Band set, and I agree that it should also get a slash on Offensive Lax, though it is already the first thing mentioned in Snorlax's Other Options.

EDIT: If Pursuit gets a mention on Offensive Lax, it would of course need to be mentioned in the set's comments that it is illegal with Selfdestruct (which is also mentioned already in OO), leaving Fire Punch as the most viable fourth move. Although it hasn't seen much activity lately, frogbandit also has an open Snorlax (Concise) thread worth looking at.

 

[cim]

Rest seems like a huge waste honestly. You throw away two turns that you probably won't live through anyway. If LO Snorlax actually works i'd up Selfdestruct there.

 

[Curtains]

Rest seems like a huge waste honestly. You throw away two turns that you probably won't live through anyway. If LO Snorlax actually works i'd up Selfdestruct there.

i think pursuit helps alot more than self destruct would. Ive caught tons of pokemon with pursuit and its killed every starmie ive ran into because they thought it was the curse set.

 

[RaikouLover]

With base negative 100 speed, Life Orb is probably the worst option for Snorlax. I can't think of a single example where you would want life orb over Leftovers or a Choice Band. The shit Snorlax can actually check it can't check anymore with it losing health so quickly!

 

[Curtains]

With base negative 100 speed, Life Orb is probably the worst option for Snorlax. I can't think of a single example where you would want life orb over Leftovers or a Choice Band. The shit Snorlax can actually check it can't check anymore with it losing health so quickly!

well i would want life orb when i want to do respectable damage. Despite LO recoil it still has its walling abilities in tact now with a-little more fire power.Ive used it and its done well. Ive won about 12 straight with the team i was using it with and i ko'ed about 4-5 starmie which is a nightmare for offensive teams to face.

 

[Mike Legend]

With base negative 100 speed, Life Orb is probably the worst option for Snorlax. I can't think of a single example where you would want life orb over Leftovers or a Choice Band. The shit Snorlax can actually check it can't check anymore with it losing health so quickly!

Choice Band and Leftovers Lax are both setup fodder for a lot of shit. LO fixes this problem and ensures that bulkier mons that can setup like D-nite and Gyara don't shit all over lax. It can still check Starmie, Heatran etc, but the LO damage does pile up late in the game.

 

[cim]

i think pursuit helps alot more than self destruct would. Ive caught tons of pokemon with pursuit and its killed every starmie ive ran into because they thought it was the curse set.

no i'm not saying selfdestruct is better than pursuit, i'm saying selfdestruct is better than rest

i could see in theorymon you pursuting rotom-a away and then selfdestructing on something else

Choice Band and Leftovers Lax are both setup fodder for a lot of shit. LO fixes this problem and ensures that bulkier mons that can setup like D-nite and Gyara don't shit all over lax. It can still check Starmie, Heatran etc, but the LO damage does pile up late in the game.

Dragonite and Gyarados both can't take more than one CB Return or Body Slam, and they can't take many Leftovers hits either. I guess if you're locked into Earthquake they can come in but that's true of everything. It's honestly something I would never consider really...

 

[Delta 2777]

Chris is Me, Pursuit + Selfdestruct is an illegal move combination on Snorlax. Anyway, I feel this set takes away far too much of Snorlax's survivability, and there would be very few niche situations where the LO boost would really save my ass. Nothing sets up on Offensive Lax anyway (especially if it has Selfdestruct), so I don't know why you said that. For example of how the loss of bulk can really screw you over, if Starmie stays in on LO Pursuit, it can live the attack and 2HKO with Hydro Pump thanks to your LO recoil. Not too impressive.

 

[jumpluff]

Rest seems like a huge waste honestly. You throw away two turns that you probably won't live through anyway. If LO Snorlax actually works i'd up Selfdestruct there.

I agree, this is not CM Suicune. LO Selfdestruct does a lot and Pursuit is also a viable alternative option on it. However, I am dubious about the capability of this set. It is basically Offensive Lax but even less durable. The main reason to use Snorlax is to check special threats (such as Heatran) with hard physical attacks. As an offensive threat, it is slow (and if it lacks Rest, easily burned by the likes of Rotom-A) and target practice for a number of Pokemon, like Lucario's Close Combat. Its best asset other than Curse is functionality as a bulky attacker, and LO just detracts from this. Specifically what does LO help you achieve? Any specific KOs? Delta's post is a great example of this, while you are not accomplishing anything specific that Offensive Lax isn't, you are even more weak to the Pokemon you should be checking in the first place.

 

[Curtains]

I agree, this is not CM Suicune. LO Selfdestruct does a lot and Pursuit is also a viable alternative option on it. However, I am dubious about the capability of this set. It is basically Offensive Lax but even less durable. The main reason to use Snorlax is to check special threats (such as Heatran) with hard physical attacks. As an offensive threat, it is slow (and if it lacks Rest, easily burned by the likes of Rotom-A) and target practice for a number of Pokemon, like Lucario's Close Combat. Its best asset other than Curse is functionality as a bulky attacker, and LO just detracts from this. Specifically what does LO help you achieve? Any specific KOs? Delta's post is a great example of this, while you are not accomplishing anything specific that Offensive Lax isn't, you are even more weak to the Pokemon you should be checking in the first place.

it has alot of ko's (insert super effective move here against X) and alot of frail shit die to LO return like Breloom who would naturally be a switch in. With thick fat i doubt ill be taking much from the fire move. Of course snorlax is target practice for lucario, its a snorlax not a gliscor so that arguement is trash.

Idk about you guys but i tried it and it worked for me. A lot of sets work well outside the theorymon metagame.

 

[MetaNite]

Just some more calculations of Life Orb Snorlax in action:

- Selfdestruct vs. max / max Impish Skarmory: 70.9% - 83.5%
- Selfdestruct vs. max / min Impish Skarmory: 83.8% - 98.8%
- Return vs. 248 / 228 Def Bold Zapdos: 44.6% - 52.7%
- Return vs. 248 / 248 Impish Gyarados at -1: 30% - 35.9%
- Crunch vs. max / max Bold Rotom-A: 50.7% - 59.9%
- Earthquake vs. min / min Tyranitar: 74.3% - 87.7%

One of the main things I think that separates Snorlax from other Special Attack-takers like Tyranitar and possibly Scizor is Selfdestruct which I think should be a primary option on this set. Slash Crunch with Pursuit too and I don't think you need Superpower to be honest. Blissey can't really do much damage to you and takes a hefty amount from Return anyway. Another option would just be to slash Life Orb with Leftovers on Offensive Lax. Has anyone considered Life Orb Fire Blast 0_0

EDIT: For kicks, Brave Life Orb Fire Blast vs. Spiker Skarm: 64.1% - 75.4%
It's possible!!

 

[cim]

Calcs versus Leftovers is what we're after here.

 

[remlabmez]

rest is a waste, LO on snorlax is a waste, lefties is a lot better since snorlax is naturally bulky and with self-destruct nothing is really going to setup on you. also what delta said

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

rest is a waste, LO on snorlax is a waste, lefties is a lot better since snorlax is naturally bulky and with self-destruct nothing is really going to setup on you. also what delta said

That.

QC REJECTED (2/3)

 

[Setsuna]

Part of what I wanted to say jumpluff outlined it already. I really doubt the effectiveness behind using LO instead of CB or Leftovers. As some people pointed out, LO does not propitiate any real and substantial benefit. I´m rejecting this thread, and subsequently locking it.

Thanks for posting this set. Don´t hesitate to try again with different contributions in the future.