Battle Spot Single Swampert and co.

[Omastar68]

hmm. Whimsicott is one of my favrites, favorite grass type fer sure. It's not exactly good against Mence, but really it depends. If you switch Whimsi in on a predicted Roost/ DD/ etc you can Encore it. That's super obvious so they'll likely switch, but u never kno and it's still good to force it out.

Waters...hmm. Whimsi lacks the bulk to take even Scalds really well, esp in rain. Sure you got same thing with Encore, and priority SubSeed can be lethal even to things normally strong against Whimsi, tho it requires a sub being up b4hand to do well, and it can be hard to set a sub. Moonblast won't really do much to them, but the SpA drop can be helpful and happens quite often. Whimsi can also outspeed unboosted Adamant Mence and hit quite had with Moonblast, so that's good.

While Whimsi can get most anything in an ideal situation, you have to consider it's tricky to work with. Like say they have Mence out and you predict DD and switch in Whimsi. Next turn you should prolly Sub in case they switch fer fear of Encore. If he does attack at least that's recoil. Hyper Voice Mence is rare in BSS to the best of my knowledge, so that's good.

A huge problem for Whimsi is Mamoswine. Mayb you can Encore it into a bad move, and you outspeed Ice Shard, but likely you eat an Icicle Spear which breaks sub. But this team looks quite strong against Mamo, so that's good. Two things Whimsi can beat most times without even having a sub up are Hydreigon and Garchomp. Those aren't especially threatening to you, but are threatening in general. With a more defensive ev spread Whimsi can reduce or eliminate any chance of unboosted Jolly Chomp killing its sub unless it's a rarer move like Poison Jab or Fire Blast, and that allows a free sub and then blast away. If Chomp tries to SD it gets an Encore.

whimsi is pretty bad against Venu and Gengar too. Anything with a poison move stronger than Sandshrew's Poison Sting really. Ofc that's only if they hit you, if you lock them in a bad move they're no thret.

Tl;dr Whimsi werks on most if not all teams, and is really fun. Lots more sets than just Encore, Moonlast, Subseed if you wanna try a different move. It's a ood counter to common Breloom sets like most grass types, and with priority it has some utility even wen it's gonna die and you hav no switch. Definitely held back by some stuff like Mamo, Kang, and Talon, but still good.

 

[Arkahn]

Wow, I am lucky, your favorite mon' is Whismi and you gave me a perfect explanation how she work ! And to be honest, I want to play her now :)
So, against bulky water she is not the best but she can work if I played well with her tricky style, same against Mence, it will be all the time about prediction !

Another idea (I know I have a lot of idea xD), it is Goodra, he can handle grass type easily even without Sap sipper and have Thunder or Thunder Bolt for water pokemon. I know it works well with AV but I have my AV Exca actually.
And he is good in rain team with hydratation and his free Rest, no ?

 

[Omastar68]

well...kinda. You don't really see Goodra much thanks its problems with lots of common stuff like Kangaskhan, Garchomp, Mamoswine, etc. Not a very god mon really.

 

[Arkahn]

In your opinion, my options with Ferro and Whismi are enough ton handle bulky water mons ?

 

[Omastar68]

In your opinion, my options with Ferro and Whismi are enough ton handle bulky water mons ?

What's the team u're thinking of exactly? Swampy, Toed, Hippo, Exca, Whimsi, Ferro? Stall think you should go more with what NOVED said with Gengar and/ or Thund. If you don't like them certainly there are successful teams that have neither...tho many good teams have both.

I think u still want to use Talon, which is good. If that's the case i'm guessing Hippo isn't being used.

Bulky waters I think you're mostly ok. Not great but not completely horrible. You should really try out this team, either on Showdown or cart, to get a bettr sense of what's wrong with it.

 

[Arkahn]

Actually, Swampy, Toed, Talonflame, Ferro, Exca and Whismi.
I think about Thund over Whismi, but I want to try her first, like you said my team as changed a lot, so I need to try it first and then I will see what is wrong with it and give you a feedback.

I will edit my first post with the changes soon !

Edit: first page edited

 

[Arkahn]

I up this thread, because I updated my Rain team.

I followed the idea of Noved with Thundurus and Mega-Gengar as a back-up Mega, I need more pratice with Mega-Gengar but it work sometimes and it's very pleasant !

I added Choice Spec Dragonite as a secret weapon, not a lot of people think about this kind of Dragonite.

You can check my new team on the first page, thank you in advance for your advices !

 

[Omastar68]

More descriptions would be good.

It looks ok, mostly, but I'm hoping Berry Juice is a joke. Sitrus Berry is way bettr, Thund should have that.

Gengar I like Protect, but I think it should either be a bulkier one to capitalize on having WoW, or get rid of that move. Either way Destiny Bond is worth considering. Really good on anyting fast, Gar especially, and it's in fact the most common move for it to have.

Reasoning for why DNite is going for just a bit of Spe creep as opposed to 252 Spe would be good. Not disagreeing, just think including why would be nice.

Ice coverage is really important in this meta, so while your main mega has it and DNite has a strong DM to get many of the targets, I think HP Ice over Grass Knot on Thund would be very viable. Focus Blst is worth considering too, you can never over prepare for Kang and it gets lots of others, notably TTar.

 

[Arkahn]

It looks ok, mostly, but I'm hoping Berry Juice is a joke. Sitrus Berry is way bettr, Thund should have that.

It's a complete misstake, it's already changed !

Reasoning for why DNite is going for just a bit of Spe creep as opposed to 252 Spe would be good. Not disagreeing, just think including why would be nice.

The reason is, with that Evs spread, he is able to resist a Ice Beam from Greninja with Multiscale

Gengar I like Protect, but I think it should either be a bulkier one to capitalize on having WoW, or get rid of that move. Either way Destiny Bond is worth considering. Really good on anyting fast, Gar especially, and it's in fact the most common move for it to have.

Sometimes I am thinking to change WoW to Destiny Bond and Hex to Shadow Ball. Protect is usefull, just with the combo with Toed, without that I never used it, but when I am able to land this combo, it worlks really well ! And maybe with Destiny Bond, Gengar will be able to kill another target before he faint.

Ice coverage is really important in this meta, so while your main mega has it and DNite has a strong DM to get many of the targets, I think HP Ice over Grass Knot on Thund would be very viable. Focus Blst is worth considering too, you can never over prepare for Kang and it gets lots of others, notably TTar.

The only reason of Grass Knot over HP Ice, it's because of my Ivs spread gave me a HP Dragon :(

 

[Omastar68]

Oh, that's kinda good on DNite...except you'll need Multiscale for that? Another mistake? Inner Focus is not at all viable.

Protect on Gengar is also good on the first turn to mega, so you can get that higher Spe stat right away. For example, if the foe is Greninja and your Gar isn't mega yet, you wanna Protect and mega, or else you get outspeed and OHKOd.

GK is fine I guess, but maybe try Focus Blast if it doesn't work. Not really much else that's all that viable. Volt Switch leaves you with just electric coverage, eww even on defensive sets. Psychic is just kinda too weak, and not man targets. If fairies are really bad you got Sludge Bomb too...but there's a reason you never see it, and I don't think fairies are too bad for you.

 

[Arkahn]

Oh, that's kinda good on DNite...except you'll need Multiscale for that? Another mistake? Inner Focus is not at all viable.

Yes, another misstake, my bad... :)

Protect on Gengar is also good on the first turn to mega, so you can get that higher Spe stat right away. For example, if the foe is Greninja and your Gar isn't mega yet, you wanna Protect and mega, or else you get outspeed and OHKOd.

I will try this move-set, Shadow Ball / Sludge Bomb / Protect / Destiny Bond, it might be more versatile, I guess.

GK is fine I guess, but maybe try Focus Blast if it doesn't work. Not really much else that's all that viable.

GK allow me to hit Hippowdon but Focus Blast can help me against Chansey, TTar or Excadrill for exemple, I will try it too.

 

[cant say]

This new version of the team actually looks pretty good. However you look somewhat weak to opposing Grass Knot Thundurus, and Specs Hydreigon. In fact, most special attackers can give you trouble if you don't OHKO them first as you have nothing that can tank a special hit. This may be seen as a controversial suggestion by my fellow raters, but I think if you were to swap Thundurus for specially defensive Porygon2 your team would be a lot more balanced. Prankster Thunder Wave is one of the most broken things in the metagame so getting rid of it may seem silly, but P2 often has just as easy a time getting Thunder Waves off with its bulk as Thundurus, while walling the crap put of all special attackers (except Nasty Plot + Focus Blast Lucario which you'll need to rely on Gengar for, unless you just destroy it with Swampert). But right now I think addressing your Hydreigon weakness is the biggest priority, as it can punch holes in your whole team, leaving it weakened enough for its teammates to sweep

edit: here's a p2 set for you

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace / Download / Analytic (literally doesn't matter, they're all good)
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpD
Calm / Sassy Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Foul Play / Return (use with Download and Sassy only) / Shadow Ball / Discharge / Hidden Power Fire/Ground

Cripple stuff with t wave. Ice Beam is your attack of choice due to all the threats weak to it (Hydreigon included). Recover for health. Last slot is up for grabs, Foul Play is the standard move for combatting physical attacker / Aegislash, Return + a Download boost does very respectable damage, Shadow Ball helps against Gengar, Gardevoir, and Slowbro, Discharge gives great coverage with Ice Beam, and Hidden Power can be used to bop Ferrothorn / Scizor or Heatran depending on which you choose

 

[Arkahn]

I am not sure about the idea to change my Thundurus, because I will loose a way to beat the bulky waters poke, a Prankster user and a resist to flying, especially Talonflame

Many times before my Thundurus, I was wall by a Klefki or Thundurus, just my old Lum berry Talonflame was able to beat the prankster users, but not Thundurus.

What is your idea to beat flying, bulky water and prankster users if I change my Thundurus to Porygon2 ?

 

[Omastar68]

I am not sure about the idea to change my Thundurus, because I will loose a way to beat the bulky waters poke, a Prankster user and a resist to flying, especially Talonflame

Many times before my Thundurus, I was wall by a Klefki or Thundurus, just my old Lum berry Talonflame was able to beat the prankster users, but not Thundurus.

What is your idea to beat flying, bulky water and prankster users if I change my Thundurus to Porygon2 ?

Bulky waters don't look too bad. Like Suicune seems pretty covered with Specs DNte Thunder, Swampert 3hkoing before it can 3HKO in rain, Ferro with Leech Seed pressuring CM variants, and Power Whip can still do a lot without a burn. Plus Gengar can always D-Bond it if nothing else.

Rotom-w is 2hkod by Gengar, and only offensive ones ohko in rain, it needs Specs for out of rain. DNite can ohko the common 252/ 0 ones 50% of the time, and is a great switch in if you predict Trick. Swampert, Ferro, and Toed are all varying degrees of bad though. Slowbro isn't too common, and physically bulky is the least effective Thund against it. DNite can destroy it and Toed can Encore Slack Off or CM.

CB Talonflame is beaten by P2 not factoring in crit hax. SD variants will not ohko at +2, and die to that recoil plus Foul Play, and hopefully they won't get to +4. Both Helmet and SpD variants beat P2, but Thund has some issues with SpD anyways. Your team doesn't seem that weak to Talon thanks to rain boosted water attacks and Specs Surf/Thunder. Ferro can't do much at all, but does live CB Flare Blitz in rain. It's also a good switch in on Brave Bird. Again you could consider a bulkier Gengar to live CB BB, and statused Hex would help get past SpD variants.

Klefki does seem like it'd be really tough for you without Thund. Definitely you want to switch Swampert in on predicted T-Waes, since it isn't really safe for Klefki to Swagger it. If it has a sub up Perish Song will ensure it eventually has to switch, if you can manage to trap with Gengar that would take care of it at the cost of a useless Gengar.

Physically bulky Thund is not an answer to mirrors at all-any other variant will have an advantage 1v1. And a problem with Incarnate usually means Thund-T is bad too, and P2 helps way more there. Your Thund dies to Thund-T fast, and can only hit it with Grass Knot which is gonna be really weak. Actuall, same goes for mirrors, so P2 actually betters that match up.

 

[Arkahn]

Very deep analysis thank you all !
This kind of Porygon2 seems to help my team more than my Thundurus, I was a bit used to play with him, but I will try Porygon2, just I need time to breed one.

Finaly which ability can be the best ? I understand Download has to be used with a Sassy nature.

So, my changes will be:
- Gengar with Destiny's bond and Shadow Ball instead of Hex and WoW
- swap Thundurus to Porygon2

I will let you know my feeling !

 

[Omastar68]

Very deep analysis thank you all !
This kind of Porygon2 seems to help my team more than my Thundurus, I was a bit used to play with him, but I will try Porygon2, just I need time to breed one.

Finaly which ability can be the best ? I understand Download has to be used with a Sassy nature.

So, my changes will be:
- Gengar with Destiny's bond and Shadow Ball instead of Hex and WoW
- swap Thundurus to Porygon2

I will let you know my feeling !

I don't like Download on P2. -Spe isn't too much of a detriment, but the way I see it normal/ice is pretty crumby coverage, and only offensive P2 really does good with Download(too easy for most mons to EV to give P2 the Atk boost, and then you're relying more on just an uninvested Return. Pretty meh.) Even offensive Analytic is plenty viable. Often Download you'd want -Spe anyways, with Analytic just go min Spe, might even hit slow Aegi in blade form with a boost.

Anyways, for you I'd go with Trace. You'll sometimes get fun stuff like Parental Bond, Speed Boost, Intimidate, Rough Skin, or Protean among others. Often actually considering how common many mons with good abilities there are. There are still bad abilities though, notably Gale Wings helps none and tracing Prankster is sometimes useless since the Prankster are all still faster bar Sableye. Though that's actually another great mon to Trace, esp. when it's mega.

Anyways, cant say is right that all the abilities are pretty good, you should experiment. If heavily favoring SpD doesn't work you might try the standard full phys. Def or maybe a mix though I've never seen that. Your team doesn't seem that slow and Ferro wants to be, so maybe you could forego T-Wave for Discharge and have an extra coverage move. If that's not enough, you might b able to do good with an Impish T-wave Ferro, or perhaps Icy Wind Gengar/Politoed to help some. Lots of choices. I guess even DNite could be T-wave, but that's kinda weird.

 

[Arkahn]

My idea was on Trace too, so if I go on Trace, my P2 should be like :

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpD
Calm
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Foul Play

I will try to keep Thunder Wave in first, because I still have Thunder on my Dragonite if needed and I guess Thunder Wave is always usefull in most of the situations.

Sorry, I am a new player in Battle spot wifi, your advices help me a lot ;)

Edit : first page edited

 

[cant say]

I completely disagree with Omastar on that last post (sorry man). Download is huge on defensive sets, since it gives what would be an otherwise passive Pokemon an actual offensive presence. It's also pretty damn easy to take advantage of Download too due to the physical nature of the metagame forcing a lot of things to run more physical defence than special. As for the bulky waters; you have Ferrothorn for all those anyway, but Download + Discharge (or T Bolt) allows you to beat pretty much all of them.

My personal favourite in general is Trace because like Omastar said, you get some pretty cool things most of the time, but I think for this team Download works better.

 

[Arkahn]

If I breed a Download P2, it will be like this I guess:

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpD
Sassy
- Thunder Wave / Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Return

What do you think, between T-wave and Discharge ?
T-wave is really useful with Toed to use Encore or Perish song in first or with Dragonite to make is time easier.