Serperior

[November Blue]

It's a shame that grass types are underestimated so much. Jalorda is amazing. Hell, there are a whole slew of gen v grass types that everyone is just ignoring. Doredia, morobareru, mebukijika, erufuun and virizion are all great pokemon.

I also want to point out that, typing aside, perversity leaf storm is statistically the best attack in the game. Its lack of any kind of drawback is unique among similarly powerful and accurate attacks. This is all regardless of the stat boost too.

This attack is a huge asset to jalorda. It's speed is also excellent in a metagame that revolves around 3 main speed tiers (base 80, 100 and 110.) It gets glare, which can paralyze the likes of garchomp, flygon and doryuzu. A fast subseed is notoriously good, and perversity prevents opposing pokes from lowering jalordas' stats.

Definitely OU.

Hell, does jalorda have any weak points aside from its horrid movepool?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

But how can a pokémon disallowed in Standard play, possibly for a long time, be too strong for a metagame which isn't even stabilized (worse, hasn't even been created) yet?




And +2 HP Fire does a number on at least half that list; the others can be Glared or Subseeded.

 

[conway]

How can a fictional pokémon be too strong for a metagame of which we haven't the foggiest idea of how it's going to look like as of now?



And +2 HP Fire does a number on at least half that list; the others can be Glared or Subseeded.

Or be hit by Wring Out, although it's a gimmicky option.

 

[Envoy.of.Water]

It's a shame that grass types are underestimated so much. Jalorda is amazing. Hell, there are a whole slew of gen v grass types that everyone is just ignoring. Doredia, morobareru, mebukijika, erufuun and virizion are all great pokemon.

I also want to point out that, typing aside, perversity leaf storm is statistically the best attack in the game. Its lack of any kind of drawback is unique among similarly powerful and accurate attacks. This is all regardless of the stat boost too.

This attack is a huge asset to jalorda. It's speed is also excellent in a metagame that revolves around 3 main speed tiers (base 80, 100 and 110.) It gets glare, which can paralyze the likes of garchomp, flygon and doryuzu. A fast subseed is notoriously good, and perversity prevents opposing pokes from lowering jalordas' stats.

Definitely OU.

Hell, does jalorda have any weak points aside from its horrid movepool?

Crappy stat distribution, awful movepool and bad typing?

Honestly, Jaroda only has one base stat above the 100 mark, and that's it's speed. Everything else is quite subpar. It's overall defenses (what he's built for) are weaker than Meganium's by five points each. It's offenses are laugable and it's movepool leaves MUCH to be desired. I predict most Jaroda are going to carry a combination of the following moves:

-Hidden Power
-Leaf Storm
-Glare
-Leech Seed
-Substitute

Coil and Calm Mind are good in theory, but really, who's going to pass up the Antagonist boost for those moves?

Furthermore, if you give Jaroda a defensive build, don't expect it to do too much damage even with a +6 Leaf Storm because no investment+crappy base stats+horrible offensive typing means that a lot of things are going to laugh in it's face.

With an offensive build, don't expect it to take too many hits because of it's subpar defenses and typing, plus he's got no reliable recovery to speak of. Add the fact that Perversity Leaf Storm is still 4x resisted by everyone and their mothers and you probably want to go with a more competent sweeper.

Grass isn't a very good offensive type. It's naturally resisted by 7 different types (Grass itself among them) that all love to mix and match with each other. If that wasn't enough, Herbivore now exists and anyone with this ability will literally eat your boosted Leaf Storms for breakfast.

To top it all off, Jaroda is easily outclassed as a sweeper by many other Pokemon (Salamence, Dragonite, Scizor, Sun boosted Venusaur, Roserade, Sceptile, etc) and as a wall by many others (Blissey, Skarmory, Nattorei, arguably Meganium, Milotic, etc).

The only thing that lets it stand out is Antagonist, which is a mixed bag since it can't abuse it's stat raising moves (Coil/Calm Mind) while using it, limiting it's usefulness.

Throw in his pityful movepool and his mediocre typing and you got yourself a mediocre Pokemon. I really doubt it'll be OU. In fact, without Antagonist, I doubt it'll manage to ever get out of UU.

 

[moe1216]

I am going to give my two cents and leave it at that. This guy is not to be underestimated. Sure his movepool is terrible and his stats are subpar, but for a grass type he's pretty damn powerful. 113 base speed, antagonist, Leaf Storm and Giga Drain to hit and heal, while also carrying Hidden Power (I use Rock). So what if there are pokes that sweep or wall better? That doesn't mean Jalorda isn't good at it. All I'm saying is that right now Jalorda is good with what has and when Gray comes out and fleshes out his movepool, he could be even more dangerous. Hell, imagine if Dragon Pulse or some other special move comes into his repetoire (probably misspelled this. Oh well)?

 

[moe1216]

It is a decent late game-sweeper I will not argue with that. He is also not the most dangerous poke right now. I'm just saying he has his uses and until the 3rd game, his uses are unfortunately extremely limited. Also, like Envoy said there are many others that do the same but better, though does that mean Jalorda doesn't deserve OU status?

 

[JSND]

Jaroda with his DW ability is something else tbh.
113 troll speed is good but his stats is actualy the best distribution for Perversity
(im not saying 75 is the best what i mean is defensively inclined speedster is the best distribution for Spamming Leaf Storm)
I mean if he has 75 Defense and Sp Defense instead Jalorda will not as powerful as he is now(and as of now he is decent, well not decent quite good while not good likethe level of ms nite)

 

[SJCrew]

How can a fictional pokémon be too strong for a metagame which we don't have the foggiest idea of how it's going to look like when it stabilizes?

We really don't need to be reminded in every other topic what Dream World abilities have and have not been released, much less in such a disgustingly obnoxious manner. There's a stickied topic at the top of the forum keeping us up to date with all of the necessary information, thanks.

And to be honest I'm not even really sold on the speculation the idea that we're not getting any 5th gen DW releases. The speculation-based data just isn't conclusive enough for me. Sorry. If you really want an idea of what Jaroda will look like in a DW metagame get on PO's server and play some matches. You have the resources, no need to pretend they aren't there.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Sorry, I noticed I was a bit too obnoxious there but forgot to edit it for whatever reason.

And yes, I used to play DW OU on the Beta Server, but I wasn't talking about Jalorda's prowess there, or in Standard OU whenever it's released, I only said that because Rayquaza_ mentioned it would be too strong for UU... but UU cannot even exist now. I mean ok Jalorda may be released any time from tomorrow to December 2014 and we can talk about it and I completely agree, but saying it is (not "will be") UU? Seriously ?__? And it's a consistent "standard" pokémon in Beta's DW ladder, which makes his post make even less sense.


And as I said, as there's no overworld sprite for Snivy/Janovy/Jalorda, they aren't going to be found in High Link Forest, as they need those damned sprites to appear (btw, this is a list of the DW pokémon and the level they appear; this is not from the DW site, but from the game coding itself; it goes from Bulbasaur to Arceus); Game Freak, however, has other means of releasing it, such as Mystery Gift and... changing the breeding mechanics in the US release of B/W so Eccentric Ditto may pass on its DW flag to any offspring.

 

[Wafflez]

Ehh its not that bad as some of you are saying.It has a decent chance of hitting OU but its leaning towards UU in my experiance.
Scarf makes a pretty good cleaner lategame and one of the reasons i'd actually use Jaroda is that he can check the large majority of rain teams with ease and only thing rain can do back is limited to Nuttre but thats not too hard to eliminate.I suppose Shaymin too can do this but it has that crippling Sr weakness and might be synergicly worth it.Other then that id much rather use Min for leech seeding which is like the only other viable set.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Everything about Perversity/Contrarian being paired with leaf storm seems fine to me.

His movepool is utterly horrid outside of this so it's not like he can REALLY abuse it.

Barring HP fire, even PARASECT could shut him down.


His only other type covereage is the dragon move "Twister" which is weak even after +6 Sp. Atk.


Also, hitting him with a FLATTER will hurt a lot.

 

[SMZ]

Everything about Perversity/Contrarian being paired with leaf storm seems fine to me.

His movepool is utterly horrid outside of this so it's not like he can REALLY abuse it.

Barring HP fire, even PARASECT could shut him down.


His only other type covereage is the dragon move "Twister" which is weak even after +6 Sp. Atk.


Also, hitting him with a FLATTER will hurt a lot.

LOL what, no one uses Flatter, unless you were pointing that it 'sucks so much Flatter could destroy him'.

Still, while it's meh, it's not that bad, besides perversity isn't the only set for it, other usable (and perhaps) more effective sets can be used.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

LOL what, no one uses Flatter, unless you were pointing that it 'sucks so much Flatter could destroy him'.

Still, while it's meh, it's not that bad, besides perversity isn't the only set for it, other usable (and perhaps) more effective sets can be used.

true. And I just thought about how silly it would be to carry flatter JUST for one pokemon who has other way more legitimate ways to counter him.

 

[SJCrew]

The best way to counter Jaroda is to go "gee, I hope it doesn't have the right HP" and switch in something bulky that resists Leaf Storm. When I switch in Heatran it suddenly has HP Ground. When I switch in Salamence, it suddenly has HP Ice. When I switch in Nattorei.....sfsadgfdgsfdgsdf

 

[awyp]

The best way to counter Jaroda is to go "gee, I hope it doesn't have the right HP" and switch in something bulky that resists Leaf Storm. When I switch in Heatran it suddenly has HP Ground. When I switch in Salamence, it suddenly has HP Ice. When I switch in Nattorei.....sfsadgfdgsfdgsdf

Yeah Jaroda's movepool is pretty bad but the ability when it gets the +2 from Leaf storm and if it isn't on choice it could be pretty annoying since it usually has any kind of Hidden Power so Pokemon like Heatran would definitely have a problem if it wasn't scarfed against a Non-Choiced Jaroda.

 

[voodoo pimp]

Barring HP fire, even PARASECT could shut him down.


His only other type covereage is the dragon move "Twister" which is weak even after +6 Sp. Atk.

The only HPs I can see him using are fire, ice, rock, and ground. 3/4 hit Parasect pretty hard. I wouldn't call that a solid counter. And why do people keep suggesting Twister? Everything you'd ever use it against is hit harder by HP Ice except for Herbivore Azumarill (which nobody uses and can't do much back to you) and Reshiram (which will probably be Uber and will probably kill you anyway).

 

[PokéMontage]

Everything you'd ever use it against is hit harder by HP Ice

The reason people use Twister is so that you can hit the Dragons and still have the option of using a differently typed HP for other threats.

HP Ice does hit harder, but then you lose coverage for, say, Steels.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

The only HPs I can see him using are fire, ice, rock, and ground. 3/4 hit Parasect pretty hard. I wouldn't call that a solid counter. And why do people keep suggesting Twister? Everything you'd ever use it against is hit harder by HP Ice except for Herbivore Azumarill (which nobody uses and can't do much back to you) and Reshiram (which will probably be Uber and will probably kill you anyway).

obviously you'd only run twister in addition to a hidden power.

And it's not a suggestion so much as an observation that it's his ONLY other special attack option.

 

[Bologo]

obviously you'd only run twister in addition to a hidden power.

And it's not a suggestion so much as an observation that it's his ONLY other special attack option.

Twister? Seriously? Just use Wring Out...

Grass/Normal/Fire literally covers everything besides Heatran and Shandera, and Shandera is still going to take a massive wallop from boosted Leaf Storms.

I personally wouldn't even run 3 attacks since Sub + Glare/Leech Seed are so much better in the 3rd and 4th slots IMO.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Wring Out is an utterly terrible move that does the same damage as a resisted Leaf Storm after SR damage on most things.

Twister is there for Dragonite and Salamence and while it's another horrible move on its own it, Jaroda can realistically 2HKO them with that.

No it can't?

Modest Specs Max SpA Jaroda Twister vs DDDragonite-26.4% - 31.1%
vs 4 hp Mence-36.9% - 43.5%
vs Fatmence-31% - 36.5%
vs 4 hp nite (who you will never see)-31.6% - 37.2%

It needs SR to have a chance of 2HKOing 4 hp Mence. Everything else fails to 2HKO even with SR.

Not to mention:

CHOICED JARODA USED TWISTER! IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

...

Go Doryuuzu/Heatran/Lucario/[steel type]/[specially-defensive pokemon that may or may not be a wall]/[any pokemon with recovery]

The difference is that Wring Out can hurt things, and Twister can't. Therefore, Wring Out>Twister.

 

[Granstafer]

Twister should not even be suggested. I would prefer wring out (not like I'm going to use either). Leaf storm and hidden power and maybe giga drain are the only attacking moves Jalorda should carry. Its special coverage is literally, Hidden power, twister, and ridiculous abount of grass moves. It gets mirror coat, but really? I think Glare> Sub> giga drain> Leech seed> protect> mirror coat> wring out> twister.

 

[November Blue]

I use hp water, giga drain and sub. It's pretty reliable.

Twister does have a 30% flinch rate IIRC, but he really needs dragon pulse.

Darkamber, why are you using choice specs on jalorda??? They're useless after a couple of leaf storms. Could someone please do calcs for twister at +2, +4 and +6? I think a lot of people are underestimating just how poweful lordy is at +6.

Has anyone considered a meadow plate/flame plate or life orb? Leaf storm could potentially muscle past 2x resists. With a sub up, you can 2HKO stuff too.

 

[Diamond Smoke]

I love the versatility Jalorda has over the other gen 5 starters because It can be a special or regular attacker, as well as a support pokemon depending on what you want. Don't know what to do with mine when I get pokemon black and white, but from what I can tell it has lots of different usages.

 

[CanadiEntei]

Watched a match this morning where someone lost to a Baokkie (new Fire monkey) because it used

Role Play + Overheat.

Seems this DW ability is a drawback at times. I like the idea of Calm Mind and Snake Coil sets regardless of how scary +2 SpA boosts are. And with Overgrow, I won't have to consider using a Baton Pass DW Spinda just to pass boosts to Mister Corn Snake.

 

[Wafflez]

I love the versatility Jalorda has over the other gen 5 starters because It can be a special or regular attacker, as well as a support pokemon depending on what you want. Don't know what to do with mine when I get pokemon black and white, but from what I can tell it has lots of different usages.

> Versatility of Jaroda....
Please tell me your joking >:/
Anyway Wring Out and Twister both suck and i dont see the reason to even consider them when you have SubSeed.Hell i use Glare over twister in Scarf sets because its actually helpful...Like say you only have Jaroda and Shandera left and your opp has a Dory.Jaroda wont ohk0 with Leaf storm so you glare it and then kill it with Shandera.Ik its situational but it happened like 2 times for me...Thats a lot more then when i needed Twister...