Semi-Stall (Updated)

[The SPrinkLer]

Hi. As you are all probably aware of, I created a Heavy Offense thread a few months ago, but later had it locked. I've since moved on from the the playstyle known as heavy offense, and went on to a very consistent playstyle. Semi-stall is the name of this game, and it's quite effective. Semi-stall is mainly used to deal with the threats normal stall has a hard time dealing with. The bane of classic stall is definitely mixed attackers, being able to switch the spectrum of attacks they use freely. Some examples of mixed attackers are Salamence, Infernape, and Tyranitar. These aren't all of the great mixed attackers, but they are probably the most know.

The famed TyraniBoah set has access to 101 subs, making Seismic Toss ineffective. Salamence has access to powerful Draco Meteors, Brick Break for Blissey, and Fire Blast for the omnipresent steel types. Each of these Pokemon are threats on their own to stall, but semi-stall aims to beat things that normally fuck with stall. Jirachi is probably the most well-known Pokemon on semi-stall and for good reason. Choice Scarf Jirachi easily handles Lucario, Salamence, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Scizor, among others, while at the same time cripples opposing stall with Trick. A Mixed Jirachi easily sweeps weakened teams once his appropiate counters are eliminated (Rotom forms and Heatran are obviously the biggest threats to a non-Calm Mind Jirachi). Calm Mind Jirachi can beat Blissey 1 on 1, easily one of the best special walls in the game. Calm Mind Jirachi can even use Wish over Substitute to support the team well.


Tyranitar is another great candidate on a semi-stall team, pairing well with Jirachi to beat Rotom, as well as revenging a multitude of threats. Tyranitar does well to remove Latias, who can use Trick to cripple any of your Pokemon. With a Choice Scarf attached, Tyranitar can easily switch into a Choice Scarf or any variant really and Crunch/Pursuit for the OHKO.

I'm kind of getting off track, but this thread should serve to promote new ideas for the world of semi-stall. Post examples of Pokemon you have experience working with semi-stall, as well as why they work, and how it contributes to the team's success.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf/Expert Belt
Jolly/Naive l 4 SpA(if you run thunderbolt)/ 252 Att/ 252 Spd
-Iron Head (a staple on any physical Jirachi)
-Fire Punch/Trick
-Ice Punch/Trick
-Thunderbolt/Thunderpunch/Trick

Depending on your team's needs, use the appropiate move, as well as EVs. Jirachi easily sweeps weakened teams, and lures in a lot of stuff. If you opt to use Fire Punch, then a Gyarados might come in. This is always fun. =P

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Jolly l 4 HP/ 252 Att/ 252 Spd
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake/Superpower
-Pursuit

Another great set that has been proven to be effective by a few great players. It easily eliminates Rotom, only fearing a Burn/HP FightinglHydro Pump, and paves the way for Jirachi. Tyranitar also beats Latias, but Tyranitar is a little harder to use, because you neeed pretty good prediction.


I think I fucked up the font from Word, so bear with me. Anyway, This thread should promote discussion about new sets that work to beat things to beat stall, new cores, and new strategies!

 

[Dave]

Where are you getting at? Jirachi and Scarf Tar are 2 of the most used pokes in todays metagame...so I am confused..you aren't saying anything people who battle frequently don't know lol..

Protip: Don't make a post once a month about whatever your into lol. Your interests are the same as half the battlers in the metagame right now xD

 

[13blue101]

If anything you should give mention on how Skarm (with or without Taunt) works in conjunction with the Ttar.

Also, 3 attack Expert Belt/LO Latias is pretty pro in Semi-Stall.

 

[RaikouLover]

I think one thing you touched on is that Semi-stall needs a way to defeat common stall. Two things I normally keep in mind when doing this are to add these to a semi-stall team:

A) an endgame pokemon (Crocune, Cursetar, etc.)
b) A faster shuffler (Heatran, Suicune)

Heatran may be the best shuffler for a Semi-stall team for several reasons. He outspeeds usually everything on a stall team to out-shuffle them. He deters their common spikers. He doesn't fear Rotom. And finally, he walls usually every member on their team except the designated bulky water (who is always weak to resid damage!).

 

[The SPrinkLer]

Where are you getting at? Jirachi and Scarf Tar are 2 of the most used pokes in todays metagame...so I am confused..you aren't saying anything people who battle frequently don't know lol..

Protip: Don't make a post once a month about whatever your into lol. Your interests are the same as half the battlers in the metagame right now xD

First off, did you read the thread? I was saying how Tyranitar and Jirachi help cover what normal stall doesn't like. I clearly stated that in the OP. Nextly, don't say protip, because you aren't any more pro than quite a few people. I made the thread to promote discussion, so unless have you have something to contribute, then kindly stay out.

On topic: Flygon makes a valuable asset to a semi-stall team as shown by Husk. I watched him battle a lot using it to great success. It isn't trappable, doesn't take damage from Spikes, and takes 6% from Stealth Rock upon each switchin. Flygon lasts a long time due to this, and can revenge kill things like Salamence and Gyarados effectively. One downside of Flygon is being locked into Outrage, making your team prone to being set up on.

@RaikouLover-Yes, I'm sorry I failed to mention on that. I did slightly mention on MixRachi how it likes Spikes support, but I didn't get in depth of late-game sweepers as a whole. A lot of things like Spikes support, so basically any set-up sweeper can be used. On the current team I'm running, I'm using a Calm Mind Wish Jirachi with an offensive-minded EV spread to outpace stuff I couldn't with a bulkier spread (base 90s). It's been working out great by supporting the team with Wish as well as providing a solid sweeper.

Sometimes I don't use a shuffler on my teams, because sometimes the sheer presence of a Pokemon is enough to cause switches. The only phazer I'll use on a consistent basis is Skarmory.

Skarmory and Tyranitar has to be one of the most solid combos out there, because Skarmory can Taunt the inevitable Rotom switch-in, meaning it can't WoW, and then go to Tyranitar who now doesn't fear a burn. Taunt Skarmory also is a great way to prevent healing on the opponent's team. The advantage Skarmory has over Gliscor is obviously access to Spikes, as well as Whirlwind. You can use Forretress and Gliscor in conjunction, although Skarmory arguably does this better. Thanks for the comments everyone!

Now, to anyone who thinks this thread doesn't promote discussion and sucks:

This thread promotes discussion by people posting sets and strategies that firstly, aid against stuff that beats stall.

People have been saying it's just a bragging thread, but how is this a gloat a all? I don't say anything along the lines of "I thought of this first", or "This set is mine", but rather, I simply show two sets that are tried and true by multiple people.

Let's take a look at Reverb's thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63811

He says in this thread, essentially, "I used this first now that two good players used it it will be everywhere!" Doesn't this seem a lot more bragging than this thread? Nowhere did I say I used MixRachi or ScarfTar first.

Sorry for the rant in this post, but I think it deserved a special mention.

 

[Zach]

gengar is fun on semistall teams believe it or not. it can spin block to an extent and provides instant offense with its life orb set. Also agreeing with rl: heatran is excellent on semistall for the reasons he mentioned. It is also a great check to SubCM Jirachi, Scizor, Skarm etc.

This is my set:

Heatran @ Leftovers / Life Orb
248 HP / 96 SpD / 164 Spe
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
-Lava Plume / Fire Blast
-Roar
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Really effective and fun to use

 

[Dave]

First off, did you read the thread? I was saying how Tyranitar and Jirachi help cover what normal stall doesn't like. I clearly stated that in the OP. Nextly, don't say protip, because you aren't any more pro than quite a few people. I made the thread to promote discussion, so unless have you have something to contribute, then kindly stay out.

Fine, protip: Work on your grammar. Use spell check. And I wasn't calling my self pro, it's an expresion buddy.


And don't get all butt hurt. Here is a semi stall set for you buddy!

Starmie @ Leftovers
36 hp, 252 special atk, 220 speed
Hydro Pump/Surf
Rapid Spin/
Recover/ Ice Beam/Tbolt
Ice Beam/Tbolt

Personally I use rapid spin + 3 atks. Basically the jist of this set is to weaken a lot of potential threats. It doesn't use Life Orb because it isn't necessary. This survives pursuit from Scarf Tar, but it also catches a plethora of pokemon off guard. If rocks and spikes are up, most people go to Rotom off the bat, well with rocks + hydro pump, Bulky Rotom is pretty much a goner next pump and you are now free to spin if needed. I use pump over surf for the power. Scarf Rotom doesn't stand a chance, it will probably live but a time between the next sandstorm hit and it switching into rocks, it's dead.

Scizor of course dies to a 2HKO upon switch in. Lati takes around 60%. It has proved to be very successful for me. It is good to use to flank out pokes like Skarm and Cune as well. Give it a try.

 

[KnightoftheWind]

When I make a semi-stall team, I like to make them just offensive teams with Spikes / Toxic Spikes support. You see, semi-stall teams can be either offensive or defensive.

Offensive semi-stall teams utilize the extra entry hazards stall provides to make certain offensive Pokemon break through their counters, whilst defensive semi-stall is what is in the OP, using offensive Pokemon to beat some of stall's issues. Defensive semi-stall teams are what I see most of the time. This is because of a misconception that all semi-stall teams should be that way, which they really shouldn't.

Offensive semi-stall teams can be effective. Take vashta's Team Rose Tyler for example. It uses Toxic Spikes to beat the counters of bulky attackers like SubCM Jirachi and Cursepert, yet it is still classified by many to be a semi-stall team. Don't assume all semi-stall teams HAVE to resemble normal stall, they can be as offensive as you like.

 

[Monta]

Not really anything new, but I've found CM Roar Latias to be useful on Semi-Stall with Spikes present.

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 180 HP/60 Def/252 Spd/16 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Roar
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Calm Mind

I just stole Phil's spread due to my lack of creativity to make my own. It's really useful and handles a decent amount of threats my Semi-Stall would normally have, mainly calm minders.

 

[noob3]

Don't criticize new team playstyles! You'll jeopardize Sprinkles next thread, Semi-Offensive Heavy Stall.

 

[Corndog]

When I make a semi-stall team, I like to make them just offensive teams with Spikes / Toxic Spikes support. You see, semi-stall teams can be either offensive or defensive.

Offensive semi-stall teams utilize the extra entry hazards stall provides to make certain offensive Pokemon break through their counters, whilst defensive semi-stall is what is in the OP, using offensive Pokemon to beat some of stall's issues. Defensive semi-stall teams are what I see most of the time. This is because of a misconception that all semi-stall teams should be that way, which they really shouldn't.

Offensive semi-stall teams can be effective. Take vashta's Team Rose Tyler for example. It uses Toxic Spikes to beat the counters of bulky attackers like SubCM Jirachi and Cursepert, yet it is still classified by many to be a semi-stall team. Don't assume all semi-stall teams HAVE to resemble normal stall, they can be as offensive as you like.

The way I understand it, what you're describing is a balanced offensive team, while semi-stall is really just another word for stall-based balanced.

 

[KnightoftheWind]

The phrase "offensive semi-stall" is an oxymoron. If we start letting self-contradictory phrases like that come into common usage the whole system of categorising playstyles is just going to degenerate into chaos.

I'm not saying the playstyle you're describing isn't effective, but please, figure out a better name.

If I had called it "offensive stall" then you'll have an excellent point, but I refered to it as "offensive SEMI-stall". Semi-stall is just that, semi, it's not completely defensively biased. They can lean either way, or go somewhere inbetween, that's what I'm getting at.

The way I understand it, what you're describing is a balanced offensive team, while semi-stall is really just another word for stall-based balanced.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head right there. Semi-stall is essentially just balance. Through that, I guess my style is semi-offense :P

 

[Megan_Fox]

gengar is fun on semistall teams believe it or not. it can spin block to an extent and provides instant offense with its life orb set. Also agreeing with rl: heatran is excellent on semistall for the reasons he mentioned. It is also a great check to SubCM Jirachi, Scizor, Skarm etc.

This is my set:

Heatran @ Leftovers / Life Orb
248 HP / 96 SpD / 164 Spe
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
-Lava Plume / Fire Blast
-Roar
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Really effective and fun to use

I like it, i might try that out in the future. And like sprinkles said, CM wish Jirachi is a beast on semi-stall providing late game sweeps while also wishing your guys back to full health.

 

[Eternal]

Don't criticize new team playstyles! You'll jeopardize Sprinkles next thread, Semi-Offensive Heavy Stall.

Hahaha....

"Semi-stall is mainly used to deal with the threats normal stall has a hard time dealing with."

I wouldn't call this semi-stall at all. All I see in this thread are Pokemon that have potential in countering other Pokemon due to their bulkiness. You are NOT "stalling" at all. There is no reason to call it "semi-stall" if all you're using is bulky Pokemon.

While none of these Pokemon will help you effectively "deal with the threats normal stall has a hard time dealing with." Using something like a Choice Scarf Tyranitar only makes it easier for your opponent to stall you out. Thus, your definition of "semi-stall" is futile.

Here is an example of "semi-stall" that correlates with your definition:

Using Skarmory as a spiker along with Blissey as Wish support. Adding Choice Scarf Jirachi and Choice Specs Latias, both with Trick. These four Pokemon together can contribute to "semi-stall." Skarmory and Blissey are able to contribute to support, while Scarf Jirachi and Specs Latias contribute to offense and are able to handle stall with "Trick."

 

[The SPrinkLer]

How is my grammar incorrect? Anyway, Semi-Stall is pretty much 1. a way to deal with threats to classic stall, or 2. abusing Spikes to set-up sweepers, which is like Spikes-based offense. Semi-Stall is learning toward the first one personally.

 

[bearsfan092]

I wouldn't call this semi-stall at all. All I see in this thread are Pokemon that have potential in countering other Pokemon due to their bulkiness. You are NOT "stalling" at all. There is no reason to call it "semi-stall" if all you're using is bulky Pokemon.

Finally time that someone said what I've been thinking this whole time. Great, you got bulky, somewhat offensive pokemon with entry hazards. You don't really depend on the traditional stall tactics all that much, so therefore, you aren't stall, so semi-stall is a misleading name for BALANCED. Get that through your head Sprinkles.

And did you really have to make ANOTHER thread on Semi stall? Not to mention you basically take a playstyle that's utilized by a third to a half of all players and make a thread. If you really had to revive the semi stall discussion, why not use your old thread?

 

[The SPrinkLer]

I said semi-stall is a way to deal with things normal stall can't handle that well. Get that through your head, as it's quite apparent you didn't read. Also, you never even bothered to check if that thread still existed, did you? ;]

 

[bearsfan092]

I said semi-stall is a way to deal with things normal stall can't handle that well. Get that through your head, as it's quite apparent you didn't read. Also, you never even bothered to check if that thread still existed, did you? ;]

So? You sidestepped my point that you aren't really doing what stall does anymore, so semi-stall is a misleading name.

And tell me, why is the old thread gone?

 

[The SPrinkLer]

You are still doing what stall does, but adding a twist. Quit being goddamn retarded. It's obvious because they call it semi-stall. I had the thread deleted because it was shit.

 

[bearsfan092]

Quit being goddamn retarded.

You really are an excellent debater.

Anyways, this is my final post with you period, so I'll make my final points.

Stall main method of damage is residual damage like Spikes, SR, Sandstorm, Hail, etc. It also can use Toxic (Spikes), and to a lesser degree, burn. However, the same could be said of offensive and balanced teams. I know I utilize Stealth Rock on every team I make, and I use sandstorm about a third of the time. I often force switches due to resistances, so I do rack up some residual damage. However, the teams I make that usually do this are bulky offense, or something else towards the realm of what we called balanced play, that is, before you felt a need to create a new name, which is my main issue with this whole "semi stall" thing. It's balanced play. You are doing damage through conventional means, so much that you can't be called stall anymore. That does not mean total abandonment of residual damage, but again, not quite stall anymore.

So, I feel like we're renaming the wheel when we already had a good name for it. And it would help if you weren't so abrasive about it.

 

[Tangerine]

You are still doing what stall does, but adding a twist. Quit being goddamn retarded. It's obvious because they call it semi-stall. I had the thread deleted because it was shit.

Protip: It was shit because of you.

#1 issue with Stark is you pretentious idiots who come around and enjoys thinking they can carry a "debate" when they're completely and utterly incapable of doing so. #2 reason Stark is shit is because idiots like you don't recognize that you are the one making the forum shit.

So honestly you have zero right to ever, ever, talk about "shit threads", nor does 99% of people who read and post at Stark because chances are, you're not much better. Good thing most people dont ever use that right, but it's amusing how most of you who apply that right tend to be utterly retarded in some way.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Stop