Scarlet and Violet UU Viability Rankings

[DraconicLepus]

Alright so imma comment on more than one thing in this post but I mainly wanna focus on one nomination


Dudunsparce: UR -> C+ [I can see it being B- as well but for now, starting off here]

Dudunsparce is the new evolution of Dunsparce in SV and despite being a pure normal type, it has a lot going for it. To start out I wanna focus on its stats, 125 HP, 80 Def, and 75 SpD gives it an amazing amount of bulk. With Roost as recovery this mon has an amazing amount of sustainability, especially when you add tera to remove some of its weaknesses that come from being a normal type. Doesn't have bad attacking stats either especially with very strong attacking moves, specifically in its new tool Boomburst. The set I want to focus on is one that uses that new tool and everything noted above to create a very scary wincon.

Dudunsparce @ Leftovers
Ability: Rattled
Tera Type: Poison/Ghost
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Def / 48 SpA / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Boomburst
- Earth Power

Calm Mind Dudunsparce. This is a set i've been testing and using since UU Alpha and I gotta say this mon in my opinion is being overlooked and underrated greatly. 85 Special attack may not be super strong but that is made up by being able to boost with calm mind and boombursts extremely high 140 BP. Roost is for a source of recovery to help its survivability alongside lefties Earth Power is what i've found to be the best coverage on this set, being able to hit Gengar, Tinkaton, and Tyranitar are the main ones. Flamethrower could be valid as well to hit Brambleghast, and now Scizor for better damage while still hitting everything but Tyranitar and other rock types. The other part of this set is the choice of ability. You'd think Serene Grace would be the easy choice, but Rattled now lets an otherwise slow pokemon boost up its speed which increases the threat even more. You can't safely Knock Off or U-turn without giving a speed boost that can take advantage of fatter, slower teams in the meta.

Dudunsparce is one of the few Calm Minders in the current meta now that Armarogue rose to OU. The closest comparison for it would be the Oriocorio's, specifically pom pom as a bulky setup sweeper that takes advantage of that bulk to be able to make itself a threat. There are multiple pokemon that Dudunsparce can take advantage of to setup, especially with Tera on its side. Slither Wing becomes a sitting duck when Tera comes into the picture, along with most other fighting types besides Gallade. It's bulk also lets it pretty reliably check and use Talonflame for setup if it isnt taunt, Slowking, Donphan, Gastrodon, and i'm sure there are more I can't think of off the top of my head.

Dudunsparce's bulk and survivability makes it quite menacing against fatter playstyles and that includes stall. It can dismantle pretty easy common balance cores and there just isn't much that can deal with Dudunsparce's Boomburst and also deal with Earth Power. Below I'm going to show some replays displaying some of the traits I explained above.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1808283688-qwc9zj405llwzbhbfo7cv27asxzz6r7pw
This is a replay from one of my UU masters games. It doesn't come in until the middle of a game but when it does against Espeon, it takes its bulk to easily set up and prepare itself to go against the rest of the opponents team, taking down Espeon easily, living the opponents Lucario's close combat to roost back up, before then beating Tyranitar and living a +1 EQ to finish off and leave the rest of the team to just have Mimikyu to handle.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1788635331-h7467b7qk9699atjju6nz1h941bnhmkpw
This was a replay against pif on ladder where while it wasn't the main star, it was able to come in and deal with T-tar, and threaten pif's team enough at +1 to let me position myself for an end game with Lokix.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1784568413-hsmx35x3s7liogj216dtj8lfay357evpw
I didn't win this particular replay but it shows the pressure Dudunsparce can put on fat cores and teams. If I was tera poison I would've been able to avoid and kill quagsire with boomburst. He also had the rarer Calm Mind Blissey which prevented me from making too much progress against his team but the pressure I was able to put gave me a good chance despite the odds.

I've also began testing some other sets that may be more expected like Glare, 3 attacks, and i'm sure there are more like it's access to rocks makes it pretty versatile with what it can do. It's an underrated threat that does pretty well in the current meta and i'd give it a shot. There is not much that can do everything it can do right now and it deserves a spot on the meta alongside Weavile, Espeon, Cloyster etc.

Lokix B -> B+
I pretty much agree with everything Lily said above and think the pressure it puts upon teams, especially HO, is way too much to ignore. Many of the replays I showed above can demonstrate the pressure Lokix can put upon all different styles of teams.

Weavile C+ -> B-
I think Weavile is pretty strong right now, Dark/Ice is still as annoying to switch into as it ever is even without Knock Off, and strong Ice STAB is rare to come by current and just makes it overall pretty reliable in my experience using it. I think its better than C+ at least. With partners like Magnezone, Sandy Shocks, Slither Wing, etc to help it come in safely I think it has a lot of positives going for it.

Either way thank you all for reading my post on Dudunsparce and why I think he's good in the current meta.

 

[Monky25]

First VR post of the generation! With the new drops settling into UU, I felt it would be appropriate now to give nominations regarding new placements for these Pokémon as well as changes within the VR for our upcoming very first VR update of the generation. A lot of the nominations I agree with have already been nominated so I’m going to focus on changes that haven’t been talked about.

to A-: Scizor has settled quite nicely after dropping not too long ago; I don't want to beat a dead horse talking about losing Knock Off and Roost so I’ll share what it’s good at. It's one of the primer revenge killers rn with CB Bullet Punch being very strong vs a plethora of Pokemon such as Gengar, Grafaiai, Polteageist, Noivern, Iron Jugulis, and forces other stuff like Salamence, Haxorus, and Maushold to Tera to avoid dropping, patching up a fair amount of teams thanks to its serviceable wallbreaking capabilities, kinda like Lokix in a way that’s primarily revenge killer that's also a wallbreaker. SD Life Orb with Tera Normal or Tera Fire is also very strong, I'd say it's the best set at cleaning through teams on HO. I recall last gen people gave up on bulky sets since they didn’t do anything for more hyper offensive sets with Life Orb on bulky offense and balance squads, and I’ve been seeing that and trying it a fair bit here to good success as well. I’ve owned a lot of unsuspecting Quagsire with TrailBlaze and it pairs well with Lucario to force Talonflame to Tera Ghost so Bullet Punch can hit it. Regardless, it struggles into Talonflame and bulkier Salamence variants as well as BP resists such as Pawmot and Sandy Shocks, not to mention a fairly large entry hazard vulnerability and helmet and Life Orb recoil wearing it down, so it’s not a top tier, but A- is a modest starting out ranking for now.
to B+: Screens are sorta in a weird place; they haven’t seemed too intense yet but at the same time have a lot of potential for experimentation. Grimmsnarl provides a unique typing as well as momentum in Parting Shot, generating forced switches to bring in sweepers while commonly running Brick Break to ease opposing screens matchup and keep Tyranitar and Bisharp from having free entry. It’s probably the least experimented with and has lots room to grow but B+ seems like a fair starting out ranking, definitely interested in seeing how UUPL affects screens dynamics.
all to A+: It’s less about Hippowdon and Gastrodon rising and more about their relationship with each other since that’s been talked about a lot already. I think all 3 are amazing Pokemon but they should be ranked in the same rank. I’m not going to echo what’s been said already but both Gastrdon and Hippowdon have been surging in usage since the Iron Hands ban and general meta developments to the point where their A- ranking is the most inaccurate thing on the VR. Gastrodon is the best vs Sandy Shocks which don't run Tera Grass often and Gengar, Noivern, and Iron Jugulis while being more flexible movepool wise with Ice Beam, Clear Smog, Surf, or Sludge Bomb and having Spikes. Meanwhile, Hippowdon stat checks the tier and can cover Gengar, Tyranitar, Salamence, and Pawmot, both physical and special attackers, at once as a mxied wall the best with Edgequake coverage being strong. On the other hand, Quagsire is as reliable as always to shut down annoying sweepers like Lucario, Mimikyu, Bisharp, Pom Pom, and Dragon Dance Salamence. and Earthquake + Toxic is a nightmare to switch into. Generally speaking they’re all just as good as each other, ranking them in A+ fits best but they should certainly all be together.
to B+: I’m going in the opposite direction of the thread but I think this Pokemon is really mid right now. It’s strong no doubt, but it's splashability is very low and hasn’t been getting a lot of usage, and it’s not hard to see why. It offers no defensive utility, kills itself with its attacks, and is weak to Stealth Rock in a metagame with limited hazard removal, making it a more niche Pokemon to build around that isn’t dominant beyond random calcs. Band is not fast in the meta that has 2-3 Pokemon outspeeding it on many teams, and while Scarf is the best set right now, it still isn’t consistent. It needs to go for 1 for 2 to be really effective but it's not really doing that: Tinkaton isn’t perfect but still forces Staraptor into being worn down, Tyranitar deters STABs and a teammate that eats CC well makes it a guessing game. Hippowdon’s insane rise with Rocky Helmet isn't great, and other miscellaneous factors like Scizor with a strong Bullet Punch or Scarf Pawmot beating out Scarf Raptor just doesn’t make it that good. It’s closer to B right now than A, but that’s a huge drop and B+ is the most appropriate place for it.
all to B: Right now I think our A- and B+ section is hella weird with most of A- being A material and a lot of B+ Pokemon being not that good so these are the worst of the B tier Pokemon that should drop. Donphan is arguably a relic of Iron Hands meta; it still provides Rapid Spin support and is generally a strong pick for offensive squads while being annoyingly tough to switch into and checking Pawmot, Tyranitar, and Tinkaton well, but the lack of longevity just really bites and apart from hard offense you’re much better off using Quagsire, Gastrodon, Hippowdon, or Sandy Shocks alongside a better spinner like Tatsugiri. It’s not terrible but not B+ material. Gallade is really strong but also a nightmare to build with since it relies so much on pivot support with an awkward speed tier and poor defensive utility. Hard to really justify compared to other wallbreakers like Slither Wing or Pawmot, doesn’t get all too much usage either so B is fair. Lastly, I would like to say that I agree with a Slowking drop because of its really awkward defensive typing into a lot of metagame threats, and Slowbro has it even worse since it lacks the funny pivot move. It’s a physical wall that doesn’t like the most common physical attackers in Pawmot, Tyranitar, and Grafaiai to an extent while being scared of special attackers as well. It matches up well against less common stuff like Hawlucha, Lucario, and Maushold but it's far from dominant and not really a part of the meta which I'd consider B+ as.
to B-: Can’t believe I’m saying this but Sylveon is not that bad of a Pokemon; it offensively distinguishes itself from Scream Tail and has greater bulk and a bug-type neutrality over Gardevoir. Choice Specs is arguably very strong right now with Tinkaton being overworked in many games and Magnezone being a solid pick to eliminate it. Got some uses in UUPL where it went in against enemy teams, I feel a small rise to B- reflects its more realized potency.
and to UR: We’ve got 5 Pokemon with screens setting capabilities on the VR: Grimmsnarl, Espeon, Klefki, Sableye, and Scream Tail. The latter still has use as a wish setter so its ranking doesn’t depend on screens, but still 5 setters on a VR for a not that dominant playstyle is too much and I’d cut the weaker links in Klefki and Sableye. Both don’t really match up to the hazard deterrence and ability to force switches with Yawn like Espeon or Grimsnarl’s solid defensive typing and ability to gain momentum with Parting Shot which can actually be a real annoyance. They have other uses ig but we don’t see them outside of screens roles so they should be cut.

Other nominations I strongly support but don’t have much to add beyond what’s been said are:
to A
to A-
to A-
to A-
to B+
to B+
to B-
to B-
to C+

 

[Monky25]

Locking this thread for the VR update. Stay tuned for the results in a few days!

 

[Monky25]

The results of our VR update are here!

New Placements
to C+: Coalossal carves out a niche as both an entry hazard user and rare form of hazard removal, being able to do both efficiently compared to other Pokemon like Donphan. With its STAB combo, it can pressure forms of hazard removal like Talonflame, Brambleghast, and Tsareena while matching up well against the most common rocker in Tinkaton. Its access to Flame Body also helps vs Maushold as well as greedy U-turn users like Lokix and Scizor. While its defensive typing is still poor and lacks the ability to use Leftovers even, warranting a fair amount of team support, Coalossal has still made good showings in both Masters and UUPL to warrant a spot on the VR, and all the way to C+ too.
to A-: Scizor starts out at a fair placement of A- on the VR. Both Choice Band and super offensive Swords Dance sets have established themselves as potent late game cleaners with a stupidly powerful priority attack. With the ability to circumvent common physical walls like Quagsire with Trailblaze and Tera Blast Rock on the former or Tera Fire on the latter to stop Talonflame, Scizor is a force to be reckoned with that definitely needs to be accounted for. Its lack of a defensive presence despite being a Steel-type, desire to Terastallize against Talonflame, and threats such as Salamence, Pawmot, and Sandy Shocks being common do work against Scizor. It also gets worn down quickly. Regardless, it’s already integrated itself as part of the tier nicely and starts out in A-.
to B: Although it needs more experimentation, Grimmsnarl and screens land in B to start out. Grimmsnarl represents screens as one of the main setters of the archetype, which is strong but suffers from the lack of instant sweepers that can outright win and just general lack of performance. Unaware Quagsire being a top Pokemon blocks out a lot of sweepers, Taunt Talonflame can be a pain, and Encore users like Tinkaton and Grafaiai own a lot of sweepers like Mimikyu. Not much to say except B was deemed a fair starting out ranking for the development of screens as an archetype in SV UU.

Rises
to S: The first of our brand new S ranks, Sandy Shocks is an incredibly dominant pivot that has been seeing insane use for some time. A solid Speed stat, good bulk and typing, and the ability to provide Spikes support in addition to being a strong pivot or pick and choose its counters all lend to its success. Tera Ice drops the Grass-types and Salamence, while Tera Grass makes Gastrodon wish Tera was banned. It synergizes with many offensive pivots and is just a strong team player, getting entry hazards up even when faced with foes that wall it. It’s one of the most consistent, dominant, and centralizing Pokemon in the builder, earning the bump up to S rank.
to S: Talonflame is a utility monster and one of our most used Pokemon in tours; it compresses many roles as Speed Control, burn spreader, Fighting-type check, and possible pivot or entry hazard remover. It fits on all types of archetypes and is just a reliable glue that synergizes with other pokemon to take on the meta. There’s a reason that in almost every popular defensive combination there’s a Talonflame. By virtue of taking on so many threatening foes and never being useless in a game, Talonflame has more than earned the title of S rank.
to S: The last of our new S ranks, Tinkaton is the embodiment of SV UU. Consistent #1 usage throughout the tier’s lifespan, Tinkaton’s amazing typing and utility cannot be understated. She ups, she knocks, she encores, she fucking slams you with Gigaton Hammer. She’s got a broken typing and a mean hammer. Tinkaton’s valuable matchups against Grafaiai, Mimikyu, The Oricorios, Polteageist, Iron Jugulis, Gardevoir, and Kilowattrel are too valuable as well. Tinkaton will never be useless in a game and is one of the key Pokemon in this metagame, earning the S rank.
to A+: Its low ranking a relic of the Iron Hands meta, Gastrodon has been seeing strong performance in tours since its ban, using its best matchup against special attackers like Sandy Shocks, Salamence, Gengar, Iron Jugulis, and Noivern compared to the other Ground-types to act as a reliable wall and great entry hazard setter. Its movepool flexibility of Sludge Bomb, Surf, Ice Beam, or Clear Smog compared to the other Ground-types means it can tailor itself to what the team needs. We’ve been seeing mixed spreads rise up to better check Tyranitar and Choice Scarf Pawmot. While it can be a bit passive if it doesn’t land Sludge Bomb Poisons and still struggles into physical attackers, Gastrodon is one of the prime defensive Pokemon in the tier and lends itself a nice rise to A+, showing that its viability is on par with Quagsire at this stage in the metagame.
to A: Grafaiai has been one of the biggest booms in performance since UUPL began, establishing itself as a key playmaker and annoying pivot in many games, using both sets to good efficiency. Poison Touch pivot cripples the likes of Hippowdon, Talonflame, Quagsire, and Gastrodon lacking Covert Cloak to great efficiency, being a strong enabler to teammates to perform better. Prankster Encore sets have been dominating even further, pivoting around and locking sweepers like Mimikyu and the Oricorios into their boosting moves. It’s been performing at the level of a top tier Pokemon and rises to A as a result.
to A+: Hippowdon rises for the same reasons you’ve seen echoed in this thread many times; it stat checks the entire tier. It distinguishes itself from Quagsire and Gastrodon with more mixed walling capabilities, being able to take on Pawmot, Tyranitar, Gengar, and Sandy Shocks the best compared to Gastrodon running from the physical attackers and Quagsire the special attackers. Its ability to fit Rocky Helmet scares out a lot of other foes like Staraptor, Slither Wing, and Maushold, and it’s no slouch offensively either with base 108 Attack and EdgeQuake coverage. It’s been getting insane usage in UUPL and it’s no secret to say that Hippowdon is now one of the best Pokemon in the tier, warranting a rise all the way to A+.
to A: Noivern establishes itself as a strong alternative to Talonflame and Salamence in the form of a fast pivot that also has more potent offensive potential. Its most common set is the same pivot set from last gen of Draco + Flamethrower + U-turn + Roost, sometimes Taunt. Common Pokemon like Tinkaton are no checks to Noivern, while others like Tyranitar, Gastrodon, and Hippowdon get worn down from switching into Draco and pivoted out into U-turn. It also provides a fair amount of defensive utility vs foes like Slither Wing, Lokix, and Scizor.
to B+: Gardevoir is a Choice Scarf user that has been seeing solid use for some time now, using its strong Fairy-type to smash many foes like Pawmot, Salamence, and Tyranitar while serving as a useful switch-in to Tatsugiri and Pom Pom with its Trace ability, so much so that the former has began to run the useless Commander ability. It’s just a strong Choice Scarf user that has lots of offensive applications that warrant a rise to B+.
to B+: Fire Tauros stands out as a unique defensive presence in the metagame, checking foes like Tinkaton, Slither Wing, Tsareena, Scizor, and the rising Weavile well while spreading burns. It’s also quite strong, with Bulk Up sets being potent at taking advantage of teams using Gastrodon as their defensive Ground-type, and having the ability to run Trailblaze to own Quagsire. Choice Scarf is a solid revenge killer as well, beating out Haxorus and Speed-tying with Salamence after their boots and threatening them back with its STAB coverage and Stone Edge. It’s seen a large surge in experimentation and it’s at the point where it has become part of the meta, prompting a rise to B+.
to B+: Also rising is the Water variation of Tauros, distinguishing itself defensively by being a solid switch into Tyranitar while retaining good matchups against Tinkaton, Bisharp, and Scizor. Choice Band is an underrated wallbreaker right now, scaring out anything that doesn’t resist both its STABs with its powerful Wave Crash and Close Combat as well as Aqua Jet for priority. Not a bad pick right now and a rise on the VR to B+ feels right to many VR members.
to B-: Since the ban of Iron Hands and the release of the VR, Weavile has been getting a burst in experimentation as a fast wallbreaker with a potent STAB combination. Simply put, not many Pokemon switch into Weavile, with Tinkaton taking nearly 40 after switching into a banded Icicle Crash and Quagsire having a good chance to get 2HKOed after Stealth Rocks and one Spike. Its natural Speed makes it a great offensive check to slower foes like Sandy Shocks, Gengar, and Iron Jugulis. While it does require a lot of support, Weavile has demonstrated a lot more potency to warrant a jump in the rankings.
to B-: Sylveon undergoes a small rise on the VR due to the more realized potency of offensive Fairy-types in conjunction with Magnezone. With Tinkaton gone, Fairy resists are limited and both Choice Specs and Calm Mind sets excel at breaking down foes like Salamence, Wo-Chien, Hippowdon, and Quagsire with its brutal Hyper Voice and solid defensive utility. Scream Tail still outclasses it as a raw Wish passer and more reliable Special Wallbreakers like Gengar and Iron Jugulis are still preferred, but Sylveon’s valuable offensive and defensive presence makes it not a bad pick in the metagame right now.
to B-: Brute Bonnet isn’t as bad as we thought it was; Loaded Dice Bullet Seed has been trending in UUPL as an annoying Pokemon to switch into with its access to Spore, putting normal switch-ins like Talonflame and Salamence potentially out of commission for a game. Grass-type STAB is decently solid right now, with many of our primary defensive Pokemon being weak to Grass. Close Combat helps get past Wo-Chien and Tinkaton, while Synthesis boosts Brute Bonnet’s longevity to check Sandy Shocks throughout a game and even soft check Gengar. It’s still very slow with a poor defensive typing, but Brute Bonnet is far from what C rank implies it to be and a rise was deemed appropriate.

Drops
to A-: While Oricorio is still a very potent sweeper, its flaws have become more apparent as it has solidified itself as a metagame staple since the time the VR went up. Players are really seeing its reliance on Terastallization against a number of foes like Tinkaton, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon, ultimately keeping it from being too high since you are often forced to exclusively use your Tera for it and not another teammate. Grafaiai’s insane rise in usage to lock it into Prankster Encore doesn’t do it any favors either. It’s just a little less consistent and a lot more prepared for, prompting a small drop to A-.
to B+: Old gen players are in shock but infamous UUBL breaker Staraptor falls down to B+. I largely echoed this in my above post, but Staraptor isn’t seeing the usage or performance to maintain a spot in the A ranks. It’s too inconsistent, offers so little defensive utility, and requires a fair amount of support to pull off. It’s still a very strong breaker you do not want to be on the wrong side of, but B+ is a more accurate ranking for this Pokemon.
to B: Kilowattrel has first fallen to RU, and now it has tumbled down the VR as well. Kilowattrel is not a bad Pokemon, but the competition it faces from Talonflame and Noivern has grown tremendously to the point where justifying Kilowattrel over them is a tougher task. Talonflame has the spot of fast Flying-type but is more utility based, so the main comparison is to Noivern, who is much bulkier and only slower than Kilowattrel itself. They share similar checks, but Noivern’s ability to cook Tinkaton, Brambleghast, and Magnezone with Flamethrower is huge, especially with the former being the most used Pokemon in tours. As Noivern rises with its pivot set, Kilowattrel falls.
to B: Slowbro just feels awkward to use; it’s typing is not the best with Sandy Shocks, Pawmot, Gengar, Tyranitar, Iron Jugulis, and Slither Wing being the best wallbreakers around, and the lack of special bulk and pivoting move means it can’t take on foes like Gardevoir, Salamence, and Noivern like Slowking have. A drop to B+ was deemed fair.
to C+: Psychic Terrain has fallen into mediocrity lately, with both general metagame developments and Armarouge’s rise kicking down the playstyle. As such, Indeedee-M drops to reflect the lower potency of the archetype.
to C+: Mecha Tyranitar falls down the VR as its uses just aren’t enough to keep it in a strong place in the metagame. A poor defensive typing to limit setup chances leaves Iron Thorns extremely reliant on Terastallization, mainly Tera Bug and Grass, both types that aren’t known for their defensive prowess. Quagsire hard stops the former while the latter will now be easily revenge killed by Scarf Gengar and First Impression users. Dragon Dance Tyranitar generally performs the go-to role of a physical speed booster on hyper offense, leaving Iron Thorns outclassed and dropping on the VR.

And with that, our first VR update of the generation is complete. While you get ready to make future nominations, please remember a few things. If a Pokemon has risen in the rankings, do not immediately nominate it down. We just voted on this and our thoughts will not have changed regarding placements in the near future, so don’t try to send Water Tauros back down to B or Indeedee up to B-. Also, please be aware to not repeat nominations the VR team voted on. Like immediately reverting changes, we’re not going to change our minds so quickly. For example, take Altaria, which had a pretty resounding C rank consensus. Do not nominate Altaria back up until enough time has passed to better assess its place in the metagame when developments have occurred. Remember, this is just an example, and repeatedly making nominations of a Pokemon when the VR team has voted on it already may result in the Pokemon being blacklisted on the VR. With all that out of the way, happy posting!

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

-> C or C-..

like ... its a mon indeed but why would you ever use it as a shell smasher, rain is banned, which means you compete now with other shell smashers which why would you use this over cloyster or poltea esp since it is hard to setup with drednaw with the many sandy shocks, quagsire, first impression, tauros-water, wo chien, BP Scizor, encore grafaiai, slowking chunking it, and a lot more... like I find it hard to justify on a team at all over other setup sweepers esp since rain is gone, i was suprised as hell it didnt drop

 

[pokemonisfun]

And with that, our first VR update of the generation is complete. While you get ready to make future nominations, please remember a few things. If a Pokemon has risen in the rankings, do not immediately nominate it down. We just voted on this and our thoughts will not have changed regarding placements in the near future, so don’t try to send Water Tauros back down to B or Indeedee up to B-. Also, please be aware to not repeat nominations the VR team voted on. Like immediately reverting changes, we’re not going to change our minds so quickly. For example, take Altaria, which had a pretty resounding C rank consensus. Do not nominate Altaria back up until enough time has passed to better assess its place in the metagame when developments have occurred. Remember, this is just an example, and repeatedly making nominations of a Pokemon when the VR team has voted on it already may result in the Pokemon being blacklisted on the VR. With all that out of the way, happy posting!

Can I nominate Fire Tauros higher?

 

[D34D_M4n14]

Nominating Grafaiai A -> A+

Mon is broken when you don't run max speed max attack gunk shot. It's unironically an amazing breaker too, simply because toxic and encore locking people out of options is amazing. One of the best glue mons in the tier.

Grafaiai @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Encore
- Toxic

^ this set is godly

 

[pokemonisfun]

A modest rise to A- for Tauros Fire:

Pros in general:

• There was a bit of a Weavile surge although I think it's dying in our Sciziety but Scizor is still good news for Tauros
• Trail Blaze + Tera Grass is super good at sweeping especially with Body Press and max defense, being one of the few decent checks to Sandy Shocks Pawmot as well . It abuses tera well because many of it's regular checks get owned by Tera Grass (Quagsire, Sandy Shocks) and vice versa (Talonflame)
• Bulk Up boosting Body Press and not being nerfed by intimidate and chilling water is great
• CB is still sort of decent maybe, it's faster than all our other fighting types I believe at least

Pros compared to Tauros Water

• Better response to Scizor because it can easily OHKO Scizor with a Fire move (raging bull usually but Flare Blitz is there too)
• Burn immune means you can actually set up vs Talonflame with Intimidate
• It's a bit weird to say, but I do think Grass moves (Tsareena, Bramble, Wochien, Brute Bonnet (which is viable!)) are more common than water moves now, so Tauros Fire's grass resistance is more important than Tauros Water's water resist
• Fairy Neutrality means you're much better into MMQ and Scream Tail

Cons in general:

• No recovery on a bulky mon means you limit yourself to Alo/Scream Tail teams if you want to use yourself at full potential (but you don't need em, just they are ideal for Tauros, obviously you can win in other ways)
• Very bad special bulk, especially because I don't think Body press sets should max HP (since defense is important for press) so you have even less special bulk, basically every special attacker can threaten you significantly
• Slither Wing bulk up sets are rising and giving you big competition, especially because Slither Wing handles Salamence much better since it can tera away the flying weakness and has better special bulk, Tauros maintains the flying weakness generally since Grass is necessary to kill Quagsire (although killing quagsire more easily than Slither is good)

 

[Lily]

I agree with pif's post above and thinks it's very nicely written. In fact I think it's a great format to use in general, but I wanted to list a few pros I feel Water Tauros has over Fire Tauros because I personally feel that if one is rising, the other should too - both should be A- imo so this isn't a problem.

Pros for Water Tauros over Fire Tauros:

• Stealth Rock resistance makes it easier to come in and out over the course of a game and offset chip damage with Leftovers
• Really great Tyranitar counter in a way Fire Tauros isn't bc it's Rock neutral and EQ weak
• Water attacks are more threatening in this metagame than Fire ones imo, stuff like Talonflame and Hippowdon has to be much more scared of Raging Bull than they do when Fire Tauros uses it. Gastrodon running less Storm Drain helps a lot with this too!
• Not being Ground weak makes it a much more comfortable trade against Grounds like Quagsire Hippo and Gastro
• Can actually check some Gyarados sets quite decently especially with Tera Water, which is big since that's trending up big time

Personally just think both are really solid, I think defensively Fire Tauros has the edge in general but Water Tauros is a bigger offensive threat - what I like about both is that they're both great offensively and defensively, which makes for some really nice utility in the builder.

 

[spell]

very short & simple nomination, but I'd like brute bonnet to be raised to B+.

Brute Bonnet @ Protective Pads
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Spore
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch / Close Combat depending on whatever comp you're trying to fit this on since sucker punch does leave you as complete wo-chien food but otherwise has a great spread vs whats used

switching into this without a wo-chien on your team (unless youre running cc then yeah) is actually pretty tough since it can spore tauros, tink, etc while not fearing flame body burn from talonflame. getting it in is not much of an issue either naturally since the tier has many great pivots that synergize well with it like slowking grafaiai noivern jugulis and more.

heres a replay from uupl w it where the plant put on a clinic using xrns hippowdon each time as a chance to bring it in and apply some good offensive pressure despite there being a wo-chien that completely walled it
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-682266

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Hi, I have one big noms and two shorter ones
B+ --> A-/A
Gyarados is honestly absurd as a win condition since Taunt shuts down so many defensive answers like Tinkaton and Quagsire. Since its base typing is also really good, it's not very reliant on Tera to sweep meaning you can use it somewhere else to break better or for defensive utility. This is a mon that can outright win a lot of matchups on preview if it just gets to +1 since defensive answers are so easy to beat with Taunt and it's really not easy to revenge-kill. It generally takes priority very well having solid bulk and resisting Scizor's Bullet Punch and Slither Wing's First Impression. Scarfers tend to be rare, but the some of the notably common ones like Gengar and Gardevoir are special attackers that can only hit it neutrally to its high SpDef stat meaning they have trouble breaking 50% on it. It's not without its flaws though, finding setup opportunities can be rather hard and even when you manage to switch-in against certain defensive mons, you can still end up in 50/50s between Taunt and Dragon Dance since they can switch to their Pawmot or whatever. It's also had to deal with the rise of Wo-Chien which is unfortunately a very good answer. I think it's one of the best wincons in the meta though, leaning more towards A, but I understand if that seems a bit too big of a shift.

A --> A+
Wo-Chien has really taken over the tournament meta from what it seems. It's really hard to stop it from making progress and you really have to make sure this thing won't completely wall you out in teambuilding because it can absolutely do that. Being able to stop pretty much every wincon available is also really insane utility. Simply put, this mon is more succesful than anything else in A tier and is becoming pretty meta-defining.

A- --> A
Teams without Talonflame struggle so much against Scizor since U-Turn and Bullet Punch are insanely spammable otherwise. You can highlight it being completely stuffed by an S tier mon as a crippling flaw, but the switch-in is insanely telegraphed meaning you have a pretty easy double switch and only Choice Band has no way to play around it. Swords Dance can abuse Talonflame's presence with Tera Fire or just nuke it with Tera Normal Quick Attack if it wants, so it's not like that flaw holds it back that much.

 

[Moutemoute]

A+ → A/A-

Don't get me wrong, Tyranitar is still a really good Pokémon in the tier but I feel like it's definitively not as great as before. Things such as Pawmot, Hippowdon or Wo-Chien are everywhere and really pummel through or handle most os its sets. Scizor is also on the rise and hurts it a lot. I found it really tough to use this Pokémon as a Stealth Rock setter when we have Pokémon way more effective (Hippowdon, Quagsire, Gastrodon). On the other hands, Choice Band sets really need to guess right when clicking a move and it's pretty tough in a metagame filled with Hippowdon and Wo-Chien. Those variants, as well as DD ones also struggles in the long run and tend to be worn down pretty quickly. Overall, Tyranitar is still a good Pokémon but I don't feel like it really deserves a spot that high at the moment.

A → A+

Wo-Chien is simply insane right now. It's able to fit in many bulky teams and it's really tough to wear down while being able to wear down on its own the opponent's team really effectively. It also has many variants which are all able to shine. This Pokémon basically always run Knock Off and then whatever the team needs. From Leech Seed + Protect variants to Rest-Talk ones with Giga Drain, Foul Play or Ruination, Wo-Chien is almost always able to shine. If we're looking at its usage on the current UUPL it has been used a lot too, being the 3rd, 9th, 11th, 6th and 4th more used Pokémon during the last 6 weeks. I trully think it's much better than many current A rank Pokémon.

 

[Monky25]

I feel the metagame has changed a lot since the last update with 3 weeks of tournament play in UUPL + Masters + 1 week of UUFPL taking place since then. As such, there will be a vote coming soon in roughly two days- could be slightly earlier or later. If there’s any changes you want to see, get your nominations in! I myself generally agree with and support almost all the nominations proposed, so I figured I would share changes that I think need to happen to the VR that haven’t been covered so far.

to A: It’s no secret to anyone who has been keeping up with UUPL lately to see just how insane this Pokémon is, currently being #7 cumulatively with only a few uses behind Salamence and Wo-Chien. Iron Jugulis is a formidable wallbreaker with a brutal STAB combo that only Tinkaton and Tyranitar stand up to, both of which fall to coverage and the latter declining in the current meta. One of the most potent sets is the Booster Energy cleaner set, using its amazing STAB and variety of coverage moves like Earth Power, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Charge Beam for boosting Special Attack as well, or Taunt to freely take advantage of Wo-Chien and Quagsire to break through many different teams, only being outsped by Choice Scarf Gengar and resulting in trading with it or priority to take it down. Heavy-Duty Boots pivot sets also provide a consistent pivot that naturally can exert offensive pressure on slower Pokémon like Pawmot and Sandy Shocks as well as outlast Hippowdon and Gastrodon. Other rising trends that benefit it include its ability to take on both regular and Tera Ghost Wo-Chien which is top of the meta, an accomplishment not many can do, as well as a decline in Slither Wing who can hit Iron Jugulis hard with First Impression. It’s truly one of the prime offensive threats in the metagame and its surge in UUPL further supports a rise to A.

to A-: It’s pretty hard to rate Slither Wing highly when two of the best and most used Pokémon in the metagame, Talonflame and Salamence, just happen to be your biggest counters. Despite its unique applications and valuable revenge killing potential, Slither Wing is just in a really awkward spot. Choice Band sets are too exploitable and can’t really click any of the big attacks and are susceptible to being worn down by entry hazards and lacks a lot of the defensive value Slither Wing provides with its high natural Special Defense. Meanwhile, Protective Pads as an item lacks both power and immunity to hazards and increases its reliance on Morning Sun which isn’t ideal in a Hippowdon metagame. Boots sets seem ideal until you click U-turn once and are useless. It just has to commit to Tera Fire a lot against 50% usage Talonflame which loses a lot of the defensive value you’re using it for. Scizor isn’t particularly compromised too much by using Tera Fire and still maintains revenge killing duties, not to mention it is just a super scary rising offensive presence that outshines Slither Wing a lot. Bulk Up sets have been gaining traction but right now it isn’t enough to save Slither Wing from a drop to A-.

to B: Bisharp is just a flop Pokémon right now as some of the most common Pokémon will just outright ruin you. Talonflame clicks Wisp and Bisharp cannot do damage, Quagsire and Hippowdon wall you, the Tauros forms being more popular sucks as they counter you as well, Broken Pawmot resists Sucker Punch and KOes you, and Bisharp generally doesn’t safely switch into many of the top tiers barring Slowking. It’s slow, not super bulky, weak to Spikes, and doesn’t hit all too hard without being a liability against most defensive staples. Scizor also competes with and performs a lot better than Bisharp as a Swords Dance priority user. It’s gotten only 2 UUPL uses, a shamefully low amount for a B+ Pokémon. We’re not seeing it perform at all, so it should drop.

and to B-: Both of these Pokémon are really mid right now and don’t even fit in B. Screens have not been prevalent as a playstyle, largely because hyper offense isn’t as strong as an archetype in a bulkier generation, but also Grimmsnarl itself is mediocre as it lacks both offensive and defensive value and just clicks Parting Shot all game until it dies to hazards. The rise in Tauros formes with Raging Bull to destroy screens isn’t a point in Grimmsnarl’s favor either. Hazard stack HO featuring leads like Froslass and/or Sandy Shocks generally are better and Grimmsnarl should drop. Meanwhile, Hawlucha is also a flawed Pokémon as a byproduct of the bulkier metagame, needing to absolutely commit to Taunt to not lose to Quagsire and hating bulkier foes like Slowking, Scream Tail, Salamence, Ghost Wo-Chien and Talonflame’s Flame Body. It doesn’t help that Psychic Terrain is also really poor now and has to use Power Herb or White Herb to activate Unburden. We’re seeing Choice Scarf sets pop up but they’re really weak and can become worthless if you click the wrong move vs the bird with 50% usage.

to B+: A solid Pokemon that’s growing in popularity, Toxtricity has been having decent performances which is what kept it low in the first place as its potency becomes more realized. Click boomburst something dies, Choice Scarf sets are popping up as a solid late-game cleaner on hazard stack teams. It also provides marginal but useful defensive utility in resisting Brave Bird and Pawmot’s STABs. Not much to really say, B+ encompasses it far better as a Pokemon that is a solid part of the metagame but has its flaws, making a rise warranted.

to UR: This is not a good Pokémon and there’s no real reason to use this. A lack of Knock Off and general defensive utility makes Krookodile seldom used compared to literally all other hazard setters, particularly Sandy Shocks which also is an offensive Ground-type. Choice Scarf is whatever, there’s two types of Choice Scarf users which are already rough locking into a move: slower scarfers like Gallade and Toxtricity who don’t outspeed DD Mence and Haxorus but are massive breakers in their own right, or actual revenge killers like Tauros forms and Gengar who beat out the aforementioned threats. Krook is neither. Wo-Chien’s massive influence on the metagame as well as other Pokémon like Salamence and Hippowdon being common leaves Krookodile into guessing games as to what move to click. It’s just not worth using, I would get this off the VR.

 

[skippergamez]

BRAMBLY WAMBLY TO A

In a world where there is lack of good hazard removal, BRAMBLY WAMBLY (autocap) shines. Brambleghast’s typing allows it to tank both Pawmot and Sandy Shocks’s STABs, and Strength Sap allows it to nearly always reach 100%. Sure there are a plethora of Flying-types and Gengar, but BRAMBLY WAMBLY fits so well into the hazard removal slot, and there’s so little competition for it, that’s it’s a natural fit on most teams.

 

[pomfpomfpluff]

I've been enjoying a lot of the recent metagame changes as of late and thought that it'd be appropriate to post some of my thoughts regarding how the metagame has developed and which mons have changed for better or for worse. Generally I'd say that the tier is in a pretty stable state at the moment and that the VR is definitely an accurate representation of what the metagame looks like, but I still have a few nitpicks. So with April shifts just around the corner, what better time to bring them up than now?


Rises


Alomomola C+ ---> B-

Alomomola had previously mainly seen use as a Stall staple and didn't do much else besides that, but has somewhat recently been seeing a decent amount of experimentation as of late. With Scizor dropping Alomomola has definitely summented itself as a worthwhile alternative Wish Passer to the likes of Scream Tail on Balance builds, as it can consistently deal with non Swords Dance variants while also checking the varety of Dragon Dancers in the tier. Regenerator makes it a lot less reliant on Heavy Duty Boots to take repeated hits with hazards up, which let's it somewhat offset its passivity with Rocky Helmet. It's seen a general rise in usage on fatter teamstyles, typically alongside Talonflame and Wo-Chien in order to form a great Fire-Water-Grass core and should therefore be ranked higher.


Scizor A- ---> A

Scizor has summented itself as one of the tiers main priority users and setup sweepers akin to the likes of Lucario, but sets itself apart from similar alternatives by having actual set variety, while also having tons of defensive utility in order to make SD sweeps more feasable. It has a lot of on paper checks that get completely demolished by specific techs, with the primary one at the moment of course being Tera Fire to stuff the many teams which rely on Talonflame to check it longterm. Definitely fitting of the "meta defining" label.


Brambleghast and Tatsugiri B+ ---> A-

This is a bit outside of my comfort zone all things considered but I digress, these two are by a fair bit the best Spinners in the tier and therefore they should be ranked a significant bit above Donphan and Tsareena. Dropping both of the latter options feels kind of reductive given that they're extremely important parts of the metagame despite being kind of sucky because of how important spinning is, hence why I felt as if a rise would be more appropriate.

Anyway back to the professional spinning duo. These two both have one important factor that distinguishes them from the spinning competition and that's the inability to consistently block them in any way shape or form. Bramble is definitely the more consistent alternative because of it's Spikes Stacking and reliable recovery making it a better supporter, but Tatsugiri putting Spin + Attacker into the same role is also very important and it's also a lot more immediately threatening against the Spin Blockers in comparison. They're both kind of sucky as individual pokemon but Spinning is invaluable within the current metagame and the pros they have over the competition definitely make the A- ranking more applicable in my opinion.


Drops


Polteageist B+ ---> B

Hyper Offense generally has been steering away from the Screens and Psychic Terrain direction that Polteageist tends to shine on, which has resulted in it being far less viable than other sweeping alternatives that are both less Tera reliant and who also do more for a team defensively. The Psychic Terrain and Screens era has ended with Armarouge rising to OU and therefore Polteageist should drop alongside these teamstyles as a result, despite being one of their best abusers.


Oricorio-Pom-Pom A- ---> B+

A wise man once said; "The match-up moth finally ran into a few too many poor match-ups for people's liking, I suppose."

Unironically though it was amazing back when people weren't familiar with it, but at the moment that's just not the case and it really shows. I'm generally not a huge fan of usage based arguments but for a mon that's supposedly on the better end of "good but inconsistent" to see so little tournament use is kind of surprising. The surprise factor it once had has completely dried up, which in combination with how hax prone it while setting up, aswell as how matchup and especially Tera reliant it is definitely make it less ideal as a bulky setup sweeper. That's kind of the main issue here, it's not being used in high level games because it's just not consistent enough at doing it's job.

 

[Corporate Donkey]

to B
While it might seem like an inconsistent pokemon, during my playtesting with it on the ladder it preformed quite consistently, due to having very few switch-ins to its stabs, and being able to easily wear down most of its counters.

Weavile is very hard to switch into, having very few safe answers to both of its stabs in the tier, and even fewer pokemon that can handle tera-ice icicle crash. Choice Band Weavile is very good at wallbreaking and is also able to easily clean up a weakened team with great efficiency. Assurance is probably its best dark stab, being an absolute nuke against a pokemon switching into hazards, and the conditions for assurance are very easy to facilitate due to how prominent hazard spam is currently. It also has access to low kick to threaten an OHKO on pokemon like Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Lucario, as well as threaten to 2HKO Tinkaton and Scizor. Weavile is also incredibly fast for the tier, having an amazing base 125 speed stat, only being outsped by Talonflame and speed tying with Kilowattrel, however talon has a chance to be OHKO'd by tera ice icicle crash, and is definitely not a good switch-in to it.
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Ice Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 344-406 (95.8 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Outspeeding many fast and dangerous threats such as Noivern, Gengar, Grafaiai, Iron Jugulis, Pawmot(although be wary of mach punch), and Sandy Shocks is incredibly useful for either revenge killing them or forcing them out, giving a safe switch in to one of Weavile's teammates. Access to stab priority in ice shard, makes it able to revenge kill non resistant speed boosted threats like dragon dance Salamence and Haxorus, booster energy Iron Jugulis and Sandy Shocks, scarf Noivern and Staraptor, and shell smash Polteageist.

While Weavile has many great traits, it is still held back by not having a ton of opportunities to get onto the field safely, and being stonewalled by both breeds of Tauros and Alomomola, however these two big downsides can be taken care of relatively easily with the right teammates. With everything considered, I think B- is way too low of a placement for a pokemon with so much offensive potential, and I think it should move up to B rank.

 

[Melt Gibson]

Monky already said something similar to this, and I'm going to try and keep it short and sweet as to not sound like a broken record, but:

Bisharp - B+ > B-

Bisharp is flopping in just about every way imaginable right now. The bulls are both on the rise and they both give it a super hard time, Pawmot and Sandy Shocks completely demolish it, and Scizor both absolutely dumpsters it while also outclassing it in the roles it aims to perform. Sucker is not nearly as spammable as Bullet Punch, and the caveat of your opponent having to click an attack means that Bisharp is much more exploitable. Talon already gets to burn you for free and the fact that it can get away with that while also not having to take any damage at all doesn't help. Magnezone is already a fine enough pick to trap Scizor and Tinkaton, and Bisharp, especially against ID + BP variants, also struggles super hard with it. Most of the strong performers in the meta right now take advantage of it handily, either threatening a KO or walling it out, aside from things like Slowking. It also struggles against the Fairies despite being part Steel, since Mimikyu can carry Drain Punch to deal with it while also buffering a hit through Disguise, and Gardevoir just nukes it due to it having super poor special bulk. It just can't really push back against common meta trends right now and that's all I have to say.

 

[sleestacks]

woah, this is my longest forum post ever... anyway here are 2 opinions on Pokemon that I feel are a bit misjudged in the community at the moment. I like the state of the tier at the moment, and I'm finding quite a few new types of builds that I really like, one of which inspired the first nomination in my post. enjoy my never-proofread ramblings!
Rises
C+ --> B-/B
I'm nominating Coalossal for a rise. This isn't because it's the most consistent or centralizing, but because of how incredible it is in the builder for hazard stacking teams. To illustrate, let's take a look at a team where the addition of a Coalossal would do something irreplacable by any other Pokemon:

halfway finished hazard stack

Currently, this team consists of Standard Wo-Chien, Standard Sandy Shocks, and Bulky Taunt + DD Gyarados. We have Wo Chien's Knock Offs and Leech Seeds to wear down opponents, Sandy Shocks's Volt Switches and Sneaky Pebbles to rack up even more chip damage, and Gyarados to take advantage of this aforementioned chip damage late-game and provide solid defensive utility. However, there's a few key elements that, if added, would make this team quite a bit more potent:

- hazard removal to stop wo-chien from getting worn down
- spikes to wear down bulky pokemon like alomomola and hippowdon with boots knocked off
- a u-turn punisher for wo-chien
- a spinblocker and/or defiant user to punish attempts at removal of our hazards

With Coalossal, we can do three of these four things in one team slot without stacking weaknesses.

I can't stress enough how important the ability to not stack weaknesses is here. Consider the fact that 3 out 4 best Rapid Spin users are grass type - due to this, you're either forced to either use Tatsugiri who, while excellent in its own right, isn't very splashable, or add multiple grass types to your team, which isn't ideal considering the massive amount of weaknesses that the type has. Coalossal's typing, while generally considered to be sub-par defensively, sets it apart as one of the few bulky non-grass-type spinners, letting it fit on almost every hazard stack team that wishes to use a grass type that can't spin. Plus, the defensive typing isnt *that* bad; you still resist U-turn and are a physically bulky Icicle Crash resist which is great considering how I've been seeing more Weavile lately. You absorb Brave Birds, Population Bombs, Play Roughs, and even lots of random neutral hits from attackers like Brute Bonnet and Scizor. Granted, you still are weak to quite a lot, but the massive natural bulk and the fact that the few resistances that you DO have are very strong are signs of some pretty high viability.

It does more than spin, too! It has Spikes, Sneaky Pebbles, Will-O-Wisp, Flame Body, and a STAB combination that threatens Talonflame, Tinkaton, Forretress (lmao) and the aforementioned grass-type spinners, letting you free up otherwise restricted team slots for more specialized offensive or defensive utility. It's not 100% the best at these roles - that's why I'm not nominating it for A rank or something - but the fact that it's good enough at these roles and that it can do all of them in one team slot is what makes it so good.

And, even if you're not using a non-spinning Grass type, I honestly think that for some builds you could double up on spinners! Using Choice Band Weavile and want to stack hazards to wear down checks? Two spinners might work to stop chip from Sneaky Pebbles! The extra type diversity that Coalossal brings as well as its immense role compression would make it fantastic at this role. And, of course, you can use other pebble-loathing breakers like Specs Noivern and Salamence too - Weavile was just an example. Be warned, though, I haven't had the time to test this theory out, so battle at your own risk, but I still think that you could get some great mileage out of Coalossal even in a situation like this.

So, for its immense effective role compresison and singlehanded enabling of a large amount of viable hazard stacking teams, I nominate Coalossal to either B- or B rank. You can find the finished version of the team that I referenced earlier by clicking here. It's entirely untested and made just for this post, but you can still probably get some good mileage out of it (and the concepts at play are what I really wanted to convey with it). I've made a lot of other Coalossal teams, of course, but they're currently on a different computer that I don't have access to right now so I couldn't share something that I have more defined experience with.

Drops
Now that we've gotten the GOOD opinions out of the way, time for the real terrible ones:
S --> S-
Okay, I know that this may seem real stupid considering that Tinkaton is known as the "Queen of UU," but it's just not really on the same level as Sandy Shocks and Talonflame. For starters, let's take the versatility into account.

Talonflame could reasonably contribute on every single style except EXTREME Hyper Offense. Sandy Shocks can be placed on every style except for Stall and Semistall. Tinkaton, however, only really fits on Balance, Semistall, and (barely) Bulky Offense. That's already a small step down, but there's more going against Tinkaton, We also need to consider how well each of these Pokemon do their roles.

Talonflame is almost singlehandedly keeping U-Turn Spam out of becoming the best style in the meta. Without its useful resistances and ability, there's no doubt in my mind that Slither Wing and Scizor would be A+ tier at a minimum. In addition, it U-turns, spreads burns, outspeeds the entire relevant non-scarfed meta, and sticks around for entire games thanks to Roost. Sandy Shocks is, in my opinion, the best Pokemon in the tier at wearing down the opposing team until they can be cleaned, It doesn't break walls down by itself, but instead forces a lot of switches with its high special attack, powerful STABs, and high natural bulk to set up hazards, and then proceeds to Volt Switch out and stack even more passive damage. It will do something pretty much every single game, and it contributes massively to the offensive synergy of every team with an offensive core that decides to use it. Now, what does Tinkaton do that compares to these metagame-warping effects?

Well, It's a "glue" Pokemon. It tanks special attacks, has a great defensive typing, sets up Stealth Rock, and uses Knock Off. Don't get me wrong, this is some fantastic utility. But compare it to the complete dominance of the other two S-Rank Pokemon and it sort of just falls flat. And this isn't even considering how it has one more issue: longevity.

Yes, it has fantastic bulk, a constant stream of Leftovers recovery, and the ever-valuable Steel-Fairy Typing. But on balance teams, I find myself often preferring to use a special wall like Slowking or Wo-Chien with more versatile recovery options and their own set of valuable traits contributing to the offensive effort. On offensive teams, the lack of a momentum move and weak moves outside of Gigaton Hammer makes it feel like setup bait. Yes, you can Thunder Wave your opponent, but consider how most of the setup sweepers in the tier are physical - you can't risk getting hit with a physical move and chipping yourself into the range of Specs Gengar or whatever other special breaker your opponent has on the team - you better switch jut to be safe. This more obviously telegraphed style of play (without taking risky predictions) isn't really the sign of a S-rank Pokemon, making it feel deserving of a S- rank at most in my opinion.

To be honest, I think that Tinkaton is still strong! It does its roles pretty well, and it still has a truckload of positive traits as I mentioned. However, I feel like if there was ever to be a "perfect" SV UU team that had the best all-around matchups, It wouldn't have a Tinkaton. It's traits are too general, in a sense - It doesn't really do anything phenomenally, leaving it to check a lot of necessary boxes when teambuilding but not really contribute to the team’s synergy very much. In addition, it doesn't have much surprise factor, leaving it stuck in a weird place where it always contributes a fair bit, but it never contributes a TON to your team like the other S-Rank Pokemon, making it feel more like an S- pick to me.

C --> D
I don't actually think that this is actually deserved but I think that it would be funny if we made it happen. I really hate Forretress

 

[Noxey]

Nomming UR -> C

I have used it with a very simple Max HP/Max Speed NP set:

Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Nasty Plot

Rotom-Heat fulfills an interesting role compression of a Fire-Electric pivot with the ability to consistently damage common walls in the current meta. Originally, Water-Grounds kept it at bay completely, as the only thing it could do was to Wisp and switch out, but right now their usage is much more limited (see UUPL usage stats from Week 1 to Week 5) and the oven is much more free to run around and "spam" Volt Switch or powerful +2 Overheats.

Rotom-Heat is great at getting chip damage to common defensive backbones of Wo-Chien, Tinkaton and/or Scream Tail through Will-O-Wisp and Nasty Plot boosted Overheats, or it can gain important momentum via Volt Switch. The most used ground types, Hippowdon/Donphan/Sandy Shocks, are chipped very well by Wisp/Overheat. It is also able to check offensive threats in the metagame: non-Outrage DD Mence and Oricorio-Pom-Pom are excellent examples but also the usual Scizor and Slither Wing (barring Tera Fire sets) which are outsped and KOd (after rocks for Slither Wing) while resisting their strong priority. It also functions as an effective switch-in to Talonflame discouraging Wisp spam. It should very rarely be Terastallized but when really in need Tera Fairy can be used to Wisp DD Mence with Outrage or Gyara (hit by Volt Switch on Taunt sets), while Tera Ghost can (very shakily) spinblock and have a Fighting immunity, very useful against the likes of Slither Wing or Lucario.

The niche it fills is somewhat of a role compression between stuff like Talonflame, Sandy Shocks and Rotom-Mow: unlike Talon, it does not have recovery nor it has Flame Body and its speed tier, but it can check stuff the birb can't and it can hit bulky cores much harder; Sandy Shocks is stronger and faster and has access to hazards, but it cannot boost its stats and struggles against some of the aforementioned walls; Rotom-Mow is not weak to hazards, can Wisp and break Gastro/Quag, but it lacks defensive utility and struggles to break past bulky Pokémon like Wo-Chien, Tinkaton and Talonflame a lot more.

SR weakness, lack of reliable recovery, of the bulk to be a much better check to a wider variety of offensive Pokémon and of the power required to truly break or hit Water/Grounds or Tyranitar surely hinder it, but I believe it has a niche role as a Pivot with ability to damage walls to guarantee it being on the VR, even though it definitely requires a lot of support to truly work and relies a lot on matchup (vs Gastro/Quag it becomes a Wisp bot).

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-682777 - UUPL replay of Rotom-Heat with good support in a good matchup

Other noms I really support:
& -> A-
-> A+
-> B+
-> A
-> A
-> B-
-> A-

 

[pokemonisfun]

Nomming UR -> C

I have used it with a very simple Max HP/Max Speed NP set:

Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Nasty Plot

Rotom-Heat fulfills an interesting role compression of a Fire-Electric pivot with the ability to consistently damage common walls in the current meta. Originally, Water-Grounds kept it at bay completely, as the only thing it could do was to Wisp and switch out, but right now their usage is much more limited (see UUPL usage stats from Week 1 to Week 5) and the oven is much more free to run around and "spam" Volt Switch or powerful +2 Overheats.

Rotom-Heat is great at getting chip damage to common defensive backbones of Wo-Chien, Tinkaton and/or Scream Tail through Will-O-Wisp and Nasty Plot boosted Overheats, or it can gain important momentum via Volt Switch. The most used ground types, Hippowdon/Donphan/Sandy Shocks, are chipped very well by Wisp/Overheat. It is also able to check offensive threats in the metagame: non-Outrage DD Mence and Oricorio-Pom-Pom are excellent examples but also the usual Scizor and Slither Wing (barring Tera Fire sets) which are outsped and KOd (after rocks for Slither Wing) while resisting their strong priority. It also functions as an effective switch-in to Talonflame discouraging Wisp spam. It should very rarely be Terastallized but when really in need Tera Fairy can be used to Wisp DD Mence with Outrage or Gyara (hit by Volt Switch on Taunt sets), while Tera Ghost can (very shakily) spinblock and have a Fighting immunity, very useful against the likes of Slither Wing or Lucario.

The niche it fills is somewhat of a role compression between stuff like Talonflame, Sandy Shocks and Rotom-Mow: unlike Talon, it does not have recovery nor it has Flame Body and its speed tier, but it can check stuff the birb can't and it can hit bulky cores much harder; Sandy Shocks is stronger and faster and has access to hazards, but it cannot boost its stats and struggles against some of the aforementioned walls; Rotom-Mow is not weak to hazards, can Wisp and break Gastro/Quag, but it lacks defensive utility and struggles to break past bulky Pokémon like Wo-Chien, Tinkaton and Talonflame a lot more.

SR weakness, lack of reliable recovery, of the bulk to be a much better check to a wider variety of offensive Pokémon and of the power required to truly break or hit Water/Grounds or Tyranitar surely hinder it, but I believe it has a niche role as a Pivot with ability to damage walls to guarantee it being on the VR, even though it definitely requires a lot of support to truly work and relies a lot on matchup (vs Gastro/Quag it becomes a Wisp bot).

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-682777 - UUPL replay of Rotom-Heat with good support in a good matchup

Other noms I really support:
& -> A-
-> A+
-> B+
-> A
-> A
-> B-
-> A-

I for one agree and would note that the Water Grounds you mention actually may lose to Rotom-H anyways - Quagsire often only has Toxic so Rotom-H just needs to Tera steel (or poison I guess) and Gastrodon often run Hazards/Recover/Ice/Ground so Rotom H can beat it even without Tera by boosting to +6.

Lastly I’d emphasize a point you already made: beating Sandy Shocks regardless of its Ice/Grass/Flying tera is very important since very few Pokémon can do that. Power Gem is rarely used now that Kilowatt is extremely uncommon.

 

[dingbat]

you and i and all ur mums know there is no fucking way scizor is an a- pokemon in this current meta. it is better than the rest of those scrubs in that rank, and it's better than some of the shitters in a rank that really have no business being there.

sdbpbpbpbpbp nation rise up

 

[Liquidocelot]

I would like to make the nomination of.

to S rank

Need a sweeper? Salamence

Need a bulky pivot? Salamence

Need a really strong special attacker? Salamence.

I feel like in 90% of my games I rely on Salamence more than any other mon, due to its typing being real good in the meta. With intimidate and HP investment + reliable recovery, it's able to constantly be an amazing bulky pivot that checks nearly every physical attacker in the the tier lacking ice coverage.

AND D-Meteor + Hurricane +Fire blast/Hydro pump is incredibly hard to switch into by pretty much the entire tier.

To me this is the single best glue mon in the entire tier and essential in every team I build as it just does so much/fulfills so many roles in every time.

 

[Melt Gibson]

Some other nominations I've seen in this thread that I'd like to echo, plus one of my own:

UR > C

Honestly? I think C is a little low, I'd really be willing to see the argument for C+ here. The fact that this thing isn't on the VR at all is crazy though. Fire/Electric is a great typing especially with Levitate, and being able to beat Sandy Shocks regardless of Tera is a very cool quality to have. Will-O to get physical threats to fuck off is also generally free if you're not running Nasty Plot. It does rely on HDB and the speed leaves a bit to be desired, but overall this is absolutely worth slotting into your team.

B+ > A

Yeah, this thing is the best DD mon in the tier bar Salamence, and I honestly think it's better in some scenarios because Taunt lets you dumpster most walls and Water STAB is invaluable vs things like Hippowdon. It's really greedy for Tera but that's not a huge downside when the payoff is winning the game on impact.

A+ > S

No complaints on this one, Mence is one of the biggest defining offensive forces in the metagame, and on pretty much any build that isn't Semi-/Stall it's more that you have to justify not using it. Bulky DD is good, Specs is good, it's got some decent fat going on, and Intimidate is massively helpful. The coverage on both ends is hard to handle without some good prediction or positioning and even then Mence can casually bulldoze teams with not much effort. Excellent in just about every facet and I don't think it's an exaggeration to call it one of the best in the tier.

C > D

Oh my fucking god please blacklist it, I'm so tired of seeing it. Name me ONE thing it does that no other spinner can accomplish at a similar or better level. I'll wait. It's massively passive, offers no real benefits due to taking the Steel slot away from Scizor and Tinkaton, dies hard to most common presences in the tier and struggles to actually pivot effectively with Volt Switch thanks to the abundant Grounds in the tier. This is not in any way a choice worth considering on any team build, ever, at all. Use something good.

C+ > B-

It's still great, especially now that Scizor is running around. Excellent bulk, good Tera user, has access to a very large bag of tricks with Spin, Spikes, Rocks, Will-O, and a very threatening STAB combo, as well as having access to Flame Body. Rock/Fire sucks defensively in a lot of cases, but for most of the things you want to burn with Flame Body it's actually super clutch, especially for things like Slither Wing and Lokix. 4x Bug resist in this meta goes craaaazy, as does resisting Mence's DWB.

A- > A

The actual reasons for this have been repeated over and over, so I'm not gonna inflate this post more than I have to to make a point that's been made a billion times. It's an absolute powerhouse that has the potential to muscle through Talon, and it only really struggles with the bulls in a 1v1 scenario. Good shit.

B- > B+

Hyper Offense has been steering away from PsyTerrain and Screens, and this thing is starting to take Polteageist's place as the premier Shell Smash sweeper. It's just overall great, Skill Link multihits let you break through stuff like sashes and Mimikyu, 180 Defense lets you not be nearly as worried about getting snuffed by priority and allows you to actually Shell Smash without Screens up, Ice Shard gives you your own priority, you open up slots for other Ghosts on the team, and you aren't nearly as greedy for Tera. Very good mon that's kinda braindead if it gets going.

 

[Monky25]

Hello VR enthusiasts, I hope you are having a fun April Fools. There's a few housekeeping items to take care of. All the new drops have been added to the new Pokemon rank to be voted on in the future, as well as Rotom-H since it is now UU by usage and must have a place. Slowking has also been removed. Also, the VR team internally decided a few days ago to postpone the update that was initially planned pre shifts, as many opinions changed to believing it would be better to wait until the tier settles and revote on the VR. As such, there will not be an update for some time now. Remember as always to take some time with tier changes before nominating changes on the VR; rain alone shakes up the tier a lot. I hope you have fun building and playing in the new meta!

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

-> B+

as exploitable as tsareena is by talonflame, it is one of the better spinners of the tier, having pivot, recovery, and a good situational ability. It is really able to show the tier what having no ghost and having a spike stack team does to you. It is able to pivot in big threats such as if you go to talonflame to try to deter it, it can just go to sandy shocks to show you why you cannot freely go talon and get off scot free. It is also really helpful as being a pokemon that doesnt give a shit about wo chien and being able to u-turn on it for ~50-60% damage allowing your team to exploit it.

-> B+

another mon exploitable by weavile, but sD weavile and CB weavile are pretty darn good, CB weavile is good by the fact that most team's ice resist is a tinkaton, a dark weak slowking, slither wing, the physically bulky tauros'. With teams not really haivng a tauros spamming icicle crash / ice spinner you are pretty screwed.... but while all of this would be good if it was on paper, weavile is paper thin, you cannot really make progress early on esp with talon and if ur boots ur not raelly strong enough to force enough progress, esp with talon being at every corner at this point. but with the correct support such as knock tink, u can make weavile work esp as a late game cleaner

-> UR

Umbreon is absolute dog shit rn, what does it do? wish pass and have foul play? if you want a wish passer you go with scream tail, who also has encore which is a big boon for it, do you want smth that is a dark type that is not passive? well you have wo chien, a perfect candidate with leech seed, knock off, ruination, stun spore, etc. What does umbreon even accomplish in this tier? It seems like it just gives free opportunities and doesn't even beat any physical attackers, gengar takes a shit on it with t spikes, sludge bomb poison, and worse of all trick. umbreon just has to wish so much its not even funny.

-> C or UR

It really struggles, sciz, tink, gengar, knock from wo chien screwing it over making it have to burn synthesis a lot more, being awfully passive compared to smth like scream tail which is a much better wish passer, and it cannot really setup CM well esp with grafaiai, gengar, quagsire, scizor, and sludge bomb gastrodon all being a thorn for it to deal with, it cant exactly pressure them either. Your fairy slot is better being used by tinkaton, gardevoir, or scream tail.

C is because I believe CM is just super super niche and it can sometimes sweep games something which all of 3 fairies cannot do, but its stupid passive and hard to get going and at that point use a better setup sweeper such as pom pom, SD scizor, Sub dd tar, all of which are better win cons and have an easier time to get going and do not need so many boosts. UR is because if CM isnt used and just as a wish passer, then why use it in the first place

-> C+

ill write tomorrow