Scarlet and Violet UU Post-Home Viability Rankings

[Monky25]

This amazing art was created by Kolohe, thank you so much!!


Hosted by Monky25 and Lily​

Hello and welcome to the Post-Home Scarlet and Violet UU Viability Rankings!

For those who are unfamiliar, in the Viability Rankings we come together as a community with a goal to rank every viable Pokemon within the SV UU metagame into ranks indicating their dominance and effect in the tier. This can serve as a great resource for teambuilding by essentially being a threat list, helping newer players understand which is the best Pokemon to use and what to account for while building. Any user is encouraged to post in this thread and share their thoughts on rankings that should be changed, which our lovely viability ranking team will read and discuss as we schedule VR updates. There is no set schedule for VR updates, but rather when we determine that the current rankings may be an inaccurate representation of the current metagame. There also is the possibility of mini updates which can be quick metagame changes that should directly happen without needing to conduct a full slate. The current viability council is below:

• Monky25 (host)
• Lily (host)
• umbry
• Lyssa
• Estarossa
• avarice
• Indigo Plateau
• Moutemoute
• Twilight
• TSR
• hariyana grande
• Sage
• Mossy Sandwich
• Mystras

The ranking descriptions for what each rank means and what the characteristics are of Pokemon in these ranks are in the below spoiler:

Ranking Descriptions

S and S-: The best of the best Pokemon, being extremely splashable and versatile, having high consistency, and shaping the tier’s development. Their dominance has a notable effect on teambuilding and the dynamics of the tier. S- Pokemon are Pokemon that are a step above the rest of the A+ Pokemon but may not be as centralizing or potent as another S tier.
A+ and A: Great and metagame defining Pokemon that have exceptional prowess and must be accounted for while building. They are not as defining as S rank Pokemon, but are still strong Pokemon that most teams should make use of. A rank Pokemon have similar traits to A+ Pokemon but may be held back due to performance or usage.
A- and B+: These are Pokemon that still have an impactful role in the metagame and should still be accounted for, but lack the consistency and/or potency to be ranked any higher.
B: Generally the lowest ranking of Pokemon considered impactful to the tier, these Pokemon operate decently within the metagame but have enough notable flaws to keep them from being tier staples. This rank may also feature Pokemon that have potential for potency in the metagame, but are too unexplored to warrant a higher rank.
B- and C+: Pokemon in these ranks are without a doubt viable, but have noticeable flaws and restrictions that limit splashability and usage in the tier while not being too consistent either. Pokemon that are staples found in niche but viable playstyles reside here.
C: These Pokemon have roles in the metagame that are generally outclassed for the most part, but still have enough relevance and usefulness in the metagame to warrant a ranking.
D: Lastly, Pokemon in D rank are UU by usage but completely unviable. Discussion on D rank Pokemon is prohibited.

When nominating changes to happen in this VR PLEASE avoid personal biases and instead use information such as trends working for or against this Pokemon as well as usage to support your claim. Note usage does not always equal viability. There is a correlation, but just because Forretress got more usage last month than Quagsire on the ladder does not mean it is a better Pokemon; tournament usage stats are generally better support for nominations. For nominating unranked Pokemon to be ranked, consider a few things: Does this have enough of a distinguishable niche in the metagame? (meaning does what it performs act differently enough from another ranked Pokemon). Also, should the first criteria be met, is this niche relevant enough in the current metagame? A good nomination of an unranked Pokemon would be here or here. Replays are also great tools to help support a nomination and are required to nominate an unranked Pokemon. And with that, here are our viability rankings! Happy posting!

S Rank

Tornadus-Therian

S- Rank

Iron Treads

A+ Rank

Quaquaval

Skeledirge

Thundurus-Therian

A Rank

Basculegion-F

Galarian Zapdos

Gastrodon

Hisuian Arcanine

Hisuian Goodra

Hydreigon

Scizor

Slowking

Tinkaton

Ursaluna

A- Rank

Alolan Muk

Chesnaught

Hippowdon

Iron Leaves

Lokix

Salamence

Volcanion

Zarude

B+ Rank

Breloom

Cyclizar

Donphan

Galarian Moltres

Galarian Slowbro

Gyarados

Hawlucha

Hisuian Zoroark

Hoopa-Unbound

Kleavor

Maushold

Rillaboom

Slowbro

B Rank

Alomomola

Bellibolt

Ceruledge

Enamorus-Therian

Iron Jugulis

Paldean Tauros-Aqua

Pawmot

Quagsire

Scream Tail

Sylveon

B- Rank

Gengar

Regidrago

Slither Wing

Talonflame

Thundurus

Tyranitar

Wo-Chien

C+ Rank

Azelf

Blissey

Gardevoir

Haxorus

Magnezone

Mimikyu

Toxtricity

Weavile

C Rank

Armarouge

Brambleghast

Cloyster

Decidueye

Ditto

Froslass

Grafaiai

Grimmsnarl

Hisuian Braviary

Hisuian Decidueye

Indeedee

Lycanroc-Dusk

Mew

Noivern

Orthworm

Oricorio-Pom-Pom

Overqwil

Polteageist

Rotom-Heat

 

[Monky25]

Reserved for update log

 

[Monky25]

Hello UU! I hope you are excited for the VR being released! To resolve any concerns regarding the placement of any Pokemon, there will be a 24 hour period to ask questions about the current VR, where our VR team will be happy to respond to any questions. Please avoid repeating questions, as these posts just clog the thread up when it has already been answered or asked, so expect repeat posts to be deleted. Additionally, please hold off on nominations until this period is over.

 

[StarFalcon555]

Why is Iron Leaves ranked so high? Basically every mon in A+ that isn't Quaquaval screws it over.

And why are Donphan and Iron Treads in the same tier? Kinda feels like Iron Treads completely outclasses Donphan IMO.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Why is Iron Leaves ranked so high? Basically every mon in A+ that isn't Quaquaval screws it over.

And why are Donphan and Iron Treads in the same tier? Kinda feels like Iron Treads completely outclasses Donphan IMO.

For Donphan vs Treads, there a post in the metagame thread that goes into why Donphan still has a niche over Treads:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-uu-metagame-discussion.3723831/post-9725064

Whether or not they should be the same rank I'm unsure, but I'm assuming reasons akin to these are why they are at the moment.

 

[Nikebeamz]

first impressions:
Scizor too high
Lokix too low

 

[Askov]

Why is Iron Leaves ranked so high? Basically every mon in A+ that isn't Quaquaval screws it over.

And why are Donphan and Iron Treads in the same tier? Kinda feels like Iron Treads completely outclasses Donphan IMO.

Iron Leaves is a pretty good breaker/cleaner in this meta with +Atk/Spe booster, and has the natural bulk to be able to setup on some common poke in the meta like Treads, Thund, Gastro, etc.

Some Iron Leaves can also opt to go with tera Ghost to avoid being revenge killed by ESpeed or Mach Punch + unresisted coverage with Tera Blast and CC, or opt to go with tera Fire/Psychic to help it muscle through Skeledirge for example

Treads and Donphan have different roles imo even if they do look pretty similar, while it's true that Treads has a cool typing to check some stuff, in reality it won't be checking anything really well aside from more passive stuff like tinkaton and a-muk which Donphan also does, and while the Steel typing can be nice, its Spdef doesn't really help it to check anything that you'd want a steel to check really well.

I think that where Treads truly shine is being either an offensive support (lefts w spin 3 atk and jolly max spe max atk) or just an offensive poke in general (booster sets, even more funky stuff like cb/scarf), and Donphan is usually the better choice for a defensive spinner/rocker

first impressions:
Scizor too high
Lokix too low

not saying that i agree or disagree with you but would you mind elaborating on it?

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Regarding the VR itself i think i agree with most of the ranks, prob would only change those ones:

Basculegion to A+: it's still pretty effective at breaking more slowish teams while also being decently powerful w scarf vs more fast paced BOs and having relatively spammable dual stabs

Tinka to A: don't get me wrong, it's still one of the most splashable blanket checks to some stuff and having rocks + knock + encore is always nice but i feel like while it's a fine check to a decent amount of the tier it also doesn't check any of them particularly well throughout the game and has felt a bit less needed with meow being gone and treads rising up on the tier

 

[Nick nicoso]

Skeledirge is solid S rank

 

[ThatOneApple]

Was kinda confused about it not being with the A+ ranks at first. However, after some thought and looking back at some games ive played with it, I noticed that it wasnt as crazy consistent at its job as i first thought.

See, while spinblocking it is a bit of a pain, getting it into a position to spin can feel like a different story imo. As its safe switch in opportunities kinda feel lacking, sure you can switch into to block volt, but then it could either take half your health with gknot (if you arent hp invested) or obliterate you with focus blast. The only times it feels truly safe to come in are against , , and . Now while tink is a good switch in opportunity to have for a spinner, it still lacks the ability to find safe spinning opportunities against non tink teams.

The other issue i think it has is (now this could just be me personally but) its stats kinda feel.... eh at times? Like its not frail by any means but sometimes i feel like it wants more bulk for things like thundy grass knots. Its not weak by any means but sometimes it just feels like it needs to hit harder. This comes up as an issue for me because i want to invest in attack to not feel like a wet noodle or hp to not just get 2 tapped by everything.

Of course its def still a solid mon with all the positive traits (toxic immune and volt deterrent, still packs knock and obviously spin) its just not as consistent as i originally thought itd be.

I could also be crazy but who knows?

(Also wow i used thundy as an example a lot lol)

 

[someone94828]

why is thund t higher than thund i when thund i has always been the better mon since gen 5?

 

[Moutemoute]

Thundurus-T has better special attack which is really worthy in the current metagame since it allows it to pressure way more defensive cores. Thundurus-I may have a better speed tier, it's not that worthy at the moment even tho it allows it to outspeed things such as Iron Treads or Zarude. Still not enough compared to the sheer power of its therian forme. Also Thundy-T has still enough speed to outspeed key threats such as Arcanine-H, Zapdos-G or Hydreigon.

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

The electric immunity for Thundy-T is also very valuable, if you're running Incarnate, you're using a Thundurus that loses to other Thundurus which in general makes a lot matchups more difficult seeing as Thundy is such a common threat.

 

[somethingaboutsomething]

why is h-arcanine A+? in my experience its pretty easy to check with hazards + quagsire/gastrodon

 

[Moutemoute]

why is h-arcanine A+? in my experience its pretty easy to check with hazards + quagsire/gastrodon

That's because you're thinking about Choice Band set which isn't the best Arcanine-H set. Heavy-Duty Boots variants are insane and tough to pressure due to its access to Morning Sun. Those sets can adapt and run different fillers depending of the needed of the team (Will-O-Wisp, Morning Sun, Stealth Rock, Howl etc..). Even tho HDB doesn't offer as much sheer power as Choice Band set, you're still dealing insane amount of damages and forces opponent to use their healing moves. Since they have been nerfed in gen9 (lower PP) those Pokémon are easier to pressure in the long run.

 

[I am New]

Why is qauaquaval A+ wasnt it A pre-home?
Also what the hell is with treads being A it should be A+/S-.
Donphan is good yes but isnt A- don and A+/S- treads show the viability difference between them?

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Why is qauaquaval A+ wasnt it A pre-home?
Also what the hell is with treads being A it should be A+/S-.
Donphan is good yes but isnt A- don and A+/S- treads show the viability difference between them?

Quaquaval has gotten better due to other changes in the metagame. We've seen the rise of defensive Rapid Spin sets as they're notably good at taking on Kleavor and Arcanine-H along with other threats. Sweeper sets also have an easier time with counters like Salamence and Decidueye dropping in usage, not only making sweeping easier, but making Roost easier to use on Swords Dance and Bulk Up sets and that added option can be extremely valuable.

Iron Treads is kept from higher tiers due to its limited defensive utility and switch-in opportunities. Many mons which you could consider switching into such as Scizor, Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T or Kleavor to name a few carry Fighting or Fire coverage. As such, it mostly finds its way on the field against more passive defensive mons or while taking risks. It's better to see it as an offensive threat that can also use Rapid Spin and Knock Off well.

Donphan isn't worse than Treads by any means, as said, Tread's weaknesses are significantly harder to work around and that makes their roles different. Donphan has a much easier time making use of items such as Assault Vest and Rocky Helmet as well as some defensive investment because it has fewer weaknesses to worry about. It's more capable of taking on Kleavor and Arcanine-H which are both very common hazard setters and that makes it better at keeping hazards off consistently. It's also notably able to beat Iron Treads itself which is a notable advantage, especially on preview.

 

[Bice]

I'd like to know why Maus is B+ rank, I thought it'd be worse in this Dirge economy.

 

[Tree69420]

nominating treads to A+, it obviously has limited defensive utility but its quad rock resist and decent physbulk let it come into kleavor always without fearing an OHKO, role compress really well (spin, physical attacker, rocks, pivot, knock), booster lets it suicide lead or be emergency speed control, it can run offensive sets or bulkier ones, and just generally fits on every single archetype. it can switch into many threats such as thundy tink scizor kleavor harc gapdos etc and while it can be threatened by their coverage it also threatens them back and the switchin is always treads-favored. it doesn't exactly outclass donphan by any means but its speed means its more offensively threatening and cant really be spinblocked even though it has a lower attack. IDK its just a really slappable mon that I feel is at a similar strength to the other A+ mons.

nominating amuk to A-, its a special sponge that has a ghost/dark resist while not being passive and ghost is a super important type to have a resist to when bascu-F is the most threatening special attacker in the tier, also nothing wants to switch into a stab knock other than maybe tinkaton which is far less slappable than pre-home

nominating alomamola to B+: it keeps pretty much every physical attacker in the tier in check with helmet while having massive wishes to heal up its teammates on fatter teams while having tons of switch in opportunities. also avoids the neutral harc head smash 2hko while dealing massive damage back and always has protect to scout for choice locked moves.

nominating chesnaught to B+ its the best spiker we have, walls gengar, has spiky shield to punish physical attackers and scout for choice locked moves, and gets tons of free switches on the near universal treads and tink while walling most variants of thundy

 

[Cheryl.]

What has changed to make Zarude so much worse in this generation compared to Gen 8 where it was A+? I thought it would have started to make a comeback with its main competition in Meowscarada leaving the tier.

 

[Moutemoute]

What has changed to make Zarude so much worse in this generation compared to Gen 8 where it was A+? I thought it would have started to make a comeback with its main competition in Meowscarada leaving the tier.

To be honest, Zarude is not bad at all. I'll link later on this post some sets which have been working great on the UUWC. The biggest issue is the fact that things such as Tornadus-T, Tinkaton or Zapdos-Galar are insanely great vs Zarude which makes it quite tough to use. Also, since Zarude is a Grass-type, it enters in competition with other Grass-types in Underused such as Breloom, Rillaboom or Iron Leaves (on the offensive spectrum) or Chesnaught (on the defensive spectrum). Breloom brings utility thanks to Spore, priority and good coverage while Rillaboom brings a ton of utility with Grassy Terrain (good passive recovery for a lot of Pokémon). Iron Leaves tends to work great in offensive teams. Chesnaught on the other hand, is probably one (if not the best) of our best Spiker in the tier.

However this doesn't means Zarude isn't great.

Zarude @ Leftovers / filler
Ability: Leaf Guard
Tera Type: Poison / Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Bulk Up
- Crunch
- Trailblaze
- Close Combat / Tera Blast

Set-up Zarude is a great anti-meta pick in my opinion and can clean a lot of teams which are not prepared for it :
• https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-708936
• https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-709272

On the other hand, I still think Choice Scarf and especially Choice Band Zarude can have a decent niche thanks to Zarude typing, speed and bulk.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Honestly, what could the S ranks look like when we get to it?

I could see mons like Dirge, Torn-T and Thundurus-T all be S rank mons. They definitely feel like the most influential mons in the tier at the moment and all could be S rank material.

 

[Tree69420]

Honestly, what could the S ranks look like when we get to it?

I could see mons like Dirge, Torn-T and Thundurus-T all be S rank mons. They definitely feel like the most influential mons in the tier at the moment and all could be S rank material.

dirge has a fair argument for S its such a good glue and fits anywhere from stall to even offense as the one glue mon
I dont think torn can be S without knock or defog because it doesnt sponge hits THAT well, doesnt offer much utility, etc
thund T is even worse imo every ground gets 2 hits off on it (phan has sturdy and ice shard) and if you run choice not only do you open yourself up to rocks damage but you also just get voltblocked by grounds dont get me wrong its very threatening but it gets revenge killed by a lot of stuff and can be pivoted around

 

[Bice]

Nominating this guy to A minimum, basically nothing outside of Chesnaught, Enamorus-Therian or maybe Rillaboom and Iron Leaves wants to come in on it. Most non-Grass mons get Spored and Rilla and Leaves are both easy to wear down. Skeledirge gets smacked by Rock Tomb and Tinkaton can't take its Fighting moves very well, and since the aforementioned mons aren't very splashable most teams will likely have to sack a mon to sleep. I'd wager that Mach Punch is the best priority in the tier rn thanks to Technician bolstering its power and the Ghost-types in the tier outside of Skeledirge (who doesnt wanna come in for the reasons I mentioned earlier) being quite frail.

 

[Sage]

I'd like to know why Maus is B+ rank, I thought it'd be worse in this Dirge economy.

Maushold remains a very cute and very competitive pick because of its cleaning potential and utility options. Encore forces walls to play very proactively around it, and can also generate setup for itself in times where Maushold otherwise would be dying. Skeledirge is actually a pretty soft check to it for a couple of reasons, the first being Bite's 30% Flinch chance, another that it can get locked into either Slack Off or Will o Wisp on Tera Fire, leaving the mice free to click buttons. Dirge is a relatively common tera pick which usually sheds its immunity to Population Bomb, in which case only minor chip is needed to start pushing a KO threshold. Tidy Up also has some fun applications for Sash Spam behind it on HO, which is where youll most commonly see it (though some players fit it into BO).

Honestly, what could the S ranks look like when we get to it?

I could see mons like Dirge, Torn-T and Thundurus-T all be S rank mons. They definitely feel like the most influential mons in the tier at the moment and all could be S rank material.

All three of the mons you mentioned, along with Tinkaton, received at least 4 S rank votes from our slate, and as such if they continue being dominant forces, especially Tornadus, I would find it quite likely for at least one of them to break through. We are getting some new drops and DLC in a couple weeks so the restraint with this short-lasting meta didn't lend to forcing one Poke in S early.

 

[ThatOneApple]

Honestly, what could the S ranks look like when we get to it?

I could see mons like Dirge, Torn-T and Thundurus-T all be S rank mons. They definitely feel like the most influential mons in the tier at the moment and all could be S rank material.

My thoughts on all the A+ mons are this


Scary Breaker, priority abuser, and then he gets to do whatever the hell he wants with the last slot. Burn spreading with wisp, double edge that is boosted by the tera normal used for espeed, howl for set up, rocks for hazard setting, morning sun for longevity, so many options. Hell, if you have enough speed control you can be a madman and maybe drop espeed to be able to run 2 of those options (though if you run howl, odds are you want espeed because those just go well together). Choice band is also a terrifying yet hard to use option because theres almost nothing that can dodge the 2hko but the rocks weakness can hold it back in conjunction with the removal being a bit awkward. However, Arc does kinda hate teams that run phys def , , or , and it does dislike that its priority isnt that strong prior to tera, but its still perfectly serviceable for picking weakened things off on offense.


Scary duck who similar to arcanine has lots of options, however this is more in terms of set diversity rather than diversity in one set. Fat rapid spin sets the annoy the likes of and to no end, scarf sets that still keep big power to stump nasty plot sweeps from and due to the raw power of its wave crashes. Set up sets that can abuse both bulk up and close combat, banded breaking if you want, and so on. This mon can be pretty scary even with things like tera ghost and to try and stop it, as you can simply pair it up with something that can force other things to tera like or and the gates are thrown wide open for the duck to do its shenanigans. It DOES however have ONE thing that it hates with a passion, that is , this mon resists both stabs AND threatens a boat load of stuff in the tier just by existing, meaning you need to either remove the fish asap or get hazards up and just keep pivoting out on it until it can no longer come in on you. This is an annoying thing to have to do but basc is always going to be a terror so most teams have to be prepped for when it inevitably gets in anyways.


It kinda wants to do the same stuff it did prehome with sd 3 attacks, but now with the existence of and the uptick in usage, it feels like it has some 4mss. It obviously wants bullet punch and sd, and likely close combat, but then you gotta choose between trailblaze for and , or thief for . Sometimes i just think sd isnt worth because of the lack of opportunities you have to actually get one off, and the lack of times it actually feels like getting one off helps. Most of the time youd rather attack as stuff like the previously mentioned and alongside and can tank the next hit theyre gonna take and smack you real hard (the ladder 3 will ohko you if basc is specs or if you dont tera against dirge or volc). That being said i could just be being dumb about sd but i do personally think banded is more worthwhile, as the hyper powerful bullet punches can probably annihilate most sweepers that dont resist it (and still do a massive chunk to those that do)


This guy can be a stopgap to pretty much any kind of threat due to tera. Physically defensive sets can ward off scary physical threats like Scarf , , and dd prior to tera, and after tera it can go further and beat things like , and dd taunt (if tera water, which i usually run on phys def). Meanwhile specially defensive sets can fend off things like , , and , prior to tera, and adds , and (if tera fairy, which i usually run on sp def). Overall a solid blanket check to things though it is prone to getting overwhelmed and having its tera getting taken advantage of.

and
Putting them together because they have notable similarities in both of their ups and downs.
Both can be scary nastly plot sweepers and effective pivots. Torn has crazy speed and can run taunt to put the pressure on stall while thundy has raw breaking power to put pressure on slower teams. Both very effective at their roles, but they both have a similar issue, 4 move slot syndrome. Torn wants all of bleakwind/hurricane, focus blast, heat wave, and grass knot on its nasty plot set (and it wants to also squeeze u turn on its taunt set imo), whereas thundy's plot set wants tbolt, focus blast, tera blast, and grass knot (and maybe sludge bomb?), and its pivot set wants to fit those same moves in conjunction with volt switch. Overall, both very effective but the 4mss hurts.


Ngl i dont even think this belongs in A+ for the reasons Askov mentioned here

Tinka to A: don't get me wrong, it's still one of the most splashable blanket checks to some stuff and having rocks + knock + encore is always nice but i feel like while it's a fine check to a decent amount of the tier it also doesn't check any of them particularly well throughout the game and has felt a bit less needed with meow being gone and treads rising up on the tier

Overall i personally think the S ranks should probably be at least one of and (maybe too but i kinda thought 2 was already pushing it and dirge does kinda like eating tera a lot) both of these 2 offer so much, as stated arcanine has so much diversity in just one set, while quaqaval has so many sets to choose from. Both have flaws but these are flaws that most teams should reasonably be prepared to cover already, and both of them have a lot going for them both offensively and defensively

(Wow i spent way too long on this lmfao, dont go to hard i might have gotten tired by the end lol)