Porygon-Z

[gabriel]

I checked on Porygon-Z's analysis, that the standard set for a Nasty Plot sweeper is:

Nasty Plot
Tri Attack
Dark Pulse
Ice Beam/HP Fighting

When you see hoe useful IB is and how difficult it is to get a good HP, we can assume Ice Beam will be the standard.

But hey: A normal/Dark/Ice can't even hit a steel type at neutral damage! So it has a terrible type coverage!

Wouldn't the old standard (and reliable) Boltbeam combo be a better choice due to it's type coverage? It covers everything DP/IB does (it certainly will have some trouble to deal with Dusknoir, but I don't see Gengar as threat) and won't be walled by non-Psychic steel types.

Magnezone will still be a problem, it doesn't matter which set, unless you're running HP Fight.

So, what do you think?

 

[blade]

certainly, ice beam might make the standard in wifi, but not in competitor. you are under the false impression that ice beam will be standard throughout, rendering your whole boltbeam conjection rather pointless. tri attack / dark pulse / hp fight is resisted by few, if none.

 

[Surgo]

Generally Tri Attack / Dark Pulse / HP Fighting, or Tri Attack / Ice Beam / HP Ground have the best coverage. But if you don't want to get HP, you'll have to settle for something inferior. Boltbeam just isn't particularly impressive, Tri Attack is what makes Porygon-Z so feared.

 

[SNX7]

Dark/Fighting is resisted by nothing IIRC. So yes, on competitor, Dark Pulse/HP Fighting/Tri Attack/Nasty Plot will become the new standard. On WiFi, it may be better to stick with Boltbeam, unless you're lucky enough to have a good HP Fighting.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

certainly, ice beam might make the standard in wifi, but not in competitor. you are under the false impression that ice beam will be standard throughout, rendering your whole boltbeam conjection rather pointless. tri attack / dark pulse / hp fight is resisted by few, if none.

Actually, Dark+Fighting by itself is resisted by none.

However, here the OP is saying how hard it would be to get HP Fighting in-game, and that Ice+Dark is a terrible offensive combo. As such, BoltBeam would probably be the way to go on WiFi, not Dark Pulse/Ice Beam.

 

[gabriel]

More important than type coverage is the coverage of threats.

1) Boltbeam: Destroys Gyarados/Salamence Garchomp. Problems with Dusknoir and Tar, tough they're not so dangerous as you outspeed them. Walled by Magnezone and Shedinja lol

2) Dark/Fighting: Destroys Ttar and ghots. Has problems with Gyarados and the Dragons and they outspeed you. Hits Magnezone and Shedinja.

. If you're running Dark/Fighting...

If Gyarados/Mence/Chomp switch as you Nasty Plot, and can't OHKO them back, they'll 1~2KO. As you won't let them kill PZ, you'll probably switch and they'll get a free turn.

. If you're running Boltbeamer...

Tyranitar scares you even more than the Dragons did due Sandstorm's Sp.Def boost, but as you outspeed it, you can finish a weakned Tar. Dusknoir can wall you and Magnezone definitaly will force a switch.

Boltbeamer or "Hidden Pulse"?

 

[Surgo]

More important than type coverage is the coverage of threats.

Not really. Porygon-Z isn't the switch-in-and-counter type, it's the plot-up-and-sweep type. Type coverage is important, as is raw power.

 

[Panick]

Isn't Dark+Fighting resisted by Heracross?

 

[adman2]

Isn't Dark+Fighting resisted by Heracross?

Yes, it does.

 

[Klungar]

Your going to be using Tri-Attack on anything that isn't 4x weak to Dark/Fighting anyways, or that resists Tri-Attack. And wouldn't you know it? Ghosts eat Dark Pulse and Rocks/Steels take HP Fighting. Those are the only scenarios that you shouldn't use Tri-Attack.

 

[adman2]

Your going to be using Tri-Attack on anything that isn't 4x weak to Dark/Fighting anyways, or that resists Tri-Attack. And wouldn't you know it? Ghosts eat Dark Pulse and Rocks/Steels take HP Fighting. Those are the only scenarios that you shouldn't use Tri-Attack.

Nothing is 4X weak to Dark, since there are no Ghost/Psychics yet. :)

(although it could be used against Tri-Attack resisters)

(Imagine that; a Pokemon 4X weak to Pursuit. It would have to have Mewtwo-like stats to survive in this metagame).

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Your going to be using Tri-Attack on anything that isn't 4x weak to Dark/Fighting anyways, or that resists Tri-Attack. And wouldn't you know it? Ghosts eat Dark Pulse and Rocks/Steels take HP Fighting. Those are the only scenarios that you shouldn't use Tri-Attack.

And also Ttar (Rock/Dark). It's this that makes HP Fighting essential. Without it, Ttar can wall it with ridiculous ease.

 

[gabriel]

So, it seems Dark Pulse/HP Fighting is better.

But I still believe that Gyarados/Chomp/Mence counter a non-Boltbeamer PZ, as they switch when you Nasty Plot, and then OHKO you.

So, despite being easier to get, is Boltbeam usable?

 

[Easton]

Porygon-Z does still kill Salamence / Garchomp / Gyarados with a boosted Tri Attack, doesn't he?

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

So, it seems Dark Pulse/HP Fighting is better.

But I still believe that Gyarados/Chomp/Mence counter a non-Boltbeamer PZ, as they switch when you Nasty Plot, and then OHKO you.

So, despite being easier to get, is Boltbeam usable?

Gyarados is OHKO'd by an Adaptivate, Nasty Plot Tri Attack from Timid Pory, as are Chomp/Mence unless they carry +Speed natures to outrun and kill. Even then, Focus Sash is a possibility on Porygon-Z. You can never rule it out.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Isn't Dark+Fighting resisted by Heracross?

Yes. Toxicroak resists both too.

 

[Lee]

But hey: A normal/Dark/Ice can't even hit a steel type at neutral damage! So it has a terrible type coverage!

Not true. What are the common Steel types? Metagross, Skarmory and Bronzong.

Dark Pulse hits Metagross/Bronzong harder than HP Fighting with a good flinch chance.

Ice Beam hits Skarmory much harder than HP Fighting, and who knows; maybe it'll freeze the tin bird too.

Registeel is the only worthwhile threat who can resist you. I'd be more worried about Ttar. With his massive special defence, Ice Beam just won't do enough damage.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Not true. What are the common Steel types? Metagross, Skarmory and Bronzong.

Dark Pulse hits Metagross/Bronzong harder than HP Fighting with a good flinch chance.

Ice Beam hits Skarmory much harder than HP Fighting, and who knows; maybe it'll freeze the tin bird too.

Registeel is the only worthwhile threat who can resist you. I'd be more worried about Ttar. With his massive special defence, Ice Beam just won't do enough damage.

Heatran. Nuff said.

 

[Lee]

Mawille. Nuff said.

And of course, Magnezone.

I'll just hide behind the fact that an Adaptive Tri Attack still does stacks, even to things that resist it.

 

[gabriel]

Magnezone and forretress walls DP/IB P-Z too. And so does a lot of non-OU. It has a terrible type coverage making Thunderbolt a better option if HP Fight is not avaiable.

 

[adman2]

Magnezone and forretress walls DP/IB P-Z too. And so does a lot of non-OU. It has a terrible type coverage making Thunderbolt a better option if HP Fight is not avaiable.

Magnezone, maybe. Forretress can't exactly take many Special hits.

 

[Megaa]

Yes. Toxicroak resists both too.

And both Toxicroak AND Heracross are shut down by one Tri-Attack.

 

[gabriel]

Magnezone, maybe. Forretress can't exactly take many Special hits.

Magnezone CAN counter it. While it takes small damage, it can do same nasty damage on a Nasty Ploted Porygon-Z.

 

[Cyl3x]

I've a question, could agility be considered over Nasty Plot since the most Porygon-Z can have for speed at Modest nature would be 279.

 

[garsh0p]

so is adaptability + STAB 2x your base power, or 2.25x (1.5 times 1.5)?