Policy Review Policy Review - Accessibility

[jagged_angel]

Bass does make a good point about people coping just fine with the many OU additions each Gen. It's more about the mentality of people looking at CAP and going - WHOA 15 pokes I can't be fucked to learn all about them.

But I really don't think this should be an issue until the number of CAPs has doubled or more.

I think this Accessibility thread should be more focused on encouraging a steady stream of users to try CAP at least once. Maybe Smogon should have a CAP night or something where Smogon U is closed and CAP is the Smogon server for the night.

Haha it sounds like a pipedream but it would be nice.

 

[Adonzo]

in regards to the idea of rotating CAPs out, another option for that could be rotating CAPs back in. say you start the 7 CAP cycle when CAP9 is released, so the cycle ladder would start with CAPs 3-9. when CAP10 is released, 3 and 4 are removed, while 10 is added and 1 rotated back in. CAP11 comes around, you removes 5 and 6, add 11 and reintroduce 2.

the cycles would look like this
cycle1: CAPs 3,4,5,6,7,8,9
cycle2: CAPs 5,6,7,8,9,10,1
cycle3: CAPs 7,8,9,10,1,11,2
cycle4: CAPs 9,10,1,11,2,12,3
cycle5: CAPs 1,11,2,12,3,13,4
and so forth

cycles would have to reset occasionally though, as each CAP would get at most 2 runs through before a reset

 

[jagged_angel]

Before ditching Syclant and Rev (or any other CAP for that matter) there needs to be clear and indisputable evidence that the server cannot attract any new members without reducing the number of CAP pokemon.

There just isn't any evidence for that at this stage.
If new users were currently unable to get to grips with the 5 new pokemon, then this would already be a problem, and we shouldn't be discussing rotation of CAPs for the future.

If new users start to find it impossible to learn a metagame that has 7 or 10 CAP pokes, then nothing needs discussing until that time. Seriously, it's 6 months to a year away.

This discussion is premature.

I think rather than increased accessibility, CAP needs more aggressive marketing to increase/maintain popularity.

 

[zarator]

Before ditching Syclant and Rev (or any other CAP for that matter) there needs to be clear and indisputable evidence that the server cannot attract any new members without reducing the number of CAP pokemon.

There just isn't any evidence for that at this stage.
If new users were currently unable to get to grips with the 5 new pokemon, then this would already be a problem, and we shouldn't be discussing rotation of CAPs for the future.

If new users start to find it impossible to learn a metagame that has 7 or 10 CAP pokes, then nothing needs discussing until that time. Seriously, it's 6 months to a year away.

This discussion is premature.

I think rather than increased accessibility, CAP needs more aggressive marketing to increase/maintain popularity.

I dont know what sort of "reputation" has CAP project among people, but maybe the lack of players on the ladder is due to a lack of popularity. And this lack of popularity could be linked to a not-so-good reputation.
Feel free to argue, but I have this suspicion. And while it may seem offtopic, if popularity and reputation are an issue, then they really are an obstacle to the accessibility of the server, at least in an indirect way.

 

[tennisace]

I think this Accessibility thread should be more focused on encouraging a steady stream of users to try CAP at least once. Maybe Smogon should have a CAP night or something where Smogon U is closed and CAP is the Smogon server for the night.

Haha it sounds like a pipedream but it would be nice.

It is a pipe dream, but still it would be nice. I also agree with Bass, if you can't learn the types, checks, and general roles of 5 Pokemon, then how do you fare in the standard metagame?

 

[chronostrike]

I've been out of the game for a while now, so I'm not up on the newest developments, but that means I've noticed a few things all at once. Since I started playing Shoddy, Wobb and Deoxys-S have been unbanned and rebanned, Garchomp has been banned, and (most importantly) Platinum was released in Japan; ergo move tutors, vastly improved rotom, Skymin, etc. These all change the metagame significantly. If people want to keep playing OU, they will have to learn to deal with all of these things. If they can relearn OU every few months or so, then people can learn to play CAP.

(Seriously, I have no idea what Skymin, new Rotom, or move tutors do to the game. That's not going to stop me from learning and playing.)

 

[Magmortified]

Bass does make a good point about people coping just fine with the many OU additions each Gen. It's more about the mentality of people looking at CAP and going - WHOA 15 pokes I can't be fucked to learn all about them.

But I really don't think this should be an issue until the number of CAPs has doubled or more.

This really kind of sums things up here. It's not necessarily so much as to people's ability to cope with changes to the metagame, so much as it is their willingness to do so.

Captain's, for instance, is possible to learn, but the question is if anybody really wants to bother learning it? In a way, CAP might reach the point where people ask themselves if they want to learn 10-15 new prominent OUs for a metagame they're not entirely sure they want to play in the first place. People are willing to learn more in standard OU because it is standard OU, and there is a large, solid userbase.

The hook ladder isn't necessarily, "the answer," but a metagame with a reduced number of CAPs (if we're not having issues right now, the hook ladder shouldn't either). Unfortunately, we can't forsee if we'll have issues if the number of CAPs ever triples. It's easier to look at, and therefore, easier for people to get into. Obviously, it's easier to learn, since there are less CAPs, but the idea is to make people think, "Hmm, that's not so bad," and get into things. If they want to stick around, they can move further into CAP with the true ladder, the forum, and so on. Again, nothing's stopping people from jumping directly into the "true" ladder, the option to play the hook ladder is just there.

In retrospect, this discussion is rather premature, yeah. But the main idea is to look ahead and try to figure out how to avoid another "Absol in OU" situation.

 

[jagged_angel]

In retrospect, this discussion is rather premature, yeah. But the main idea is to look ahead and try to figure out how to avoid another "Absol in OU" situation.

As I understand it, the "Absol in OU" situation basically means we need more users on the server and thus more people laddering in order to obtain meaningful Tier statistics.

I would guess that few smogoners are unaware of the CAP Project by now, so it's only really new users who might log onto the server of their own accord.

What we really need is a way to encourage smogoners to come and try the CAP sever in order to boost numbers. If 50 people would log on and get to grips with the CAPs for one night, and half of those stayed or decided to log on again sometime in the future, that would be a great boost to server usage, and also an indication that the CAP metagame is pretty accessible.

Do the mods have any method or power to encourage people to come on the CAP server?
If not, then the only way I can think of increasing server usage is to force people to come and register on the server in order to vote in CAP projects. It might drastically cut CAP poll participation, or it might drastically increase server usage. Either way it's a pretty strict measure.

 

[tennisace]

Do the mods have any method or power to encourage people to come on the CAP server?
If not, then the only way I can think of increasing server usage is to force people to come and register on the server in order to vote in CAP projects. It might drastically cut CAP poll participation, or it might drastically increase server usage. Either way it's a pretty strict measure.

I've been saying that for a while, but unfortunately it won't work. You can't force people to do something that they don't want to do. How would we enforce it btw? Only do bold polls and check each vote by a list of the registered voters? It mucks up the process a ton.

 

[jagged_angel]

I was imagining that sticky announcement would say "Come register you Smogon username on the CAP Server in order to be allowed to vote in this CAP's polls" then the TL would have a list of everyone who signed up on the server and would check the usernames of every voter in bold and clicky polls. Of course it would be a huge amount of hassle for the TL. Ahh, I guess it's not feasible really.

I just can't think of any other way to encourage the current users of Smogon University shoddy server (and other servers) to come and play on CAP.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Magmortified, I'm not sure I can assemble a cohesive conclusion on this. Can you please go back through everything in this thread and post a proposed conclusion?

 

[tennisace]

Mag would obviously be biased for his proposal, as would a bunch of people would be against it.

Personally, I'm pretty neutral at the moment since it's not that hard to learn 1 new attack, 2 new abilities, and the roles of 5 new Pokemon. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be playing Pokemon. Conclusion: Hold until we get to about 8-9 Pokemon. Don't implement it yet, but save the idea.

 

[eric the espeon]

I can't see a situation arising that we would need to limit CaP's (even on a "hook" ladder), but if we ever reach a situation that looks like it may need that kind of measure then it should be brought up again.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Conclusion:

We will not take any action at this time. However, we SHOULD endeavor to keep our metagame accessible, by making pokemon that make sense within the current OU metagame. As we make more pokemon in the future, this general topic may come up for review again.