There's also the fact that hydro pump can miss whereas the latter always hits. Furthermore, liquidation had more power points and it's additional effect of being able to lower defense benefits sharpedo's set as a whole.
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Format Discussion Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets
- Thread starter Annika
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Lowering def is useless, shark has nonexistent bulk and there is almost 0 situations where your pp is used up. Its just better to get off a bigger hit not to mention how the targets shark hits with water have higher physdef than spedef, lowering liquidations power even more. Accuracy is a trade off for power, but its definitely worth it tbh.
Hydro Pump in experience has been very helpful over liquidation because of its mixed nature. You can KO ground-types and rock-types much more easily with Hydro Pump
Allow Quick Claw/Shuca Berry Pincurchin
Pincurchin has weak bulk and leftovers is unlikely to help it. Due to low speed it is likely to use Rising Voltage more than once. QClaw allows it to potentially set a move in priority before being KOd, which can do quite decent damage vs most mons, or even setup more hazards vs ground mons.
Pincurchin has weak bulk and leftovers is unlikely to help it. Due to low speed it is likely to use Rising Voltage more than once. QClaw allows it to potentially set a move in priority before being KOd, which can do quite decent damage vs most mons, or even setup more hazards vs ground mons.
Yup. Just some things I quickly checked :
- Liquidation misses on the OHKO on Hippowdon, Sandslash, Armaldo, Steelix, Durant (96% ohko with pump) and probably many other, has about a 50% chance to miss on Arcanine, and misses the OHKO on a +1 Centiskorch;
- Pump is more likely to 2HKO threats like Barbaracle, Carracosta, Turtonator, Corviknight, Drednaw, etc;
- Pump does more to Avalugg, Bewear (and I guess a few others) than CC;
- Sharpedo doesn't become completely hindered by intimidate (mawile, lando, arcanine, incineroar, etc.) and can OHKO some of those (lando, incineroar, arcanine) with pump.
So, yeah, I don't see any reason to go back to liquidation simply for the higher accuracy and the 20% defense drop, and the fact sharpedo can boost its attack with max knuckle, if dynamaxed, is not enough of a reason for me, since it's so frail that it rarely will get the opportunity to even use it unless your opponent has nothing for it (or misplays).
Dunno, I can see the perks, but it's very gimmicky and QC introduces even more RNG into the format, which I personally don't like. \o/
We will probably go with Shuca cuz of consistency and ground types love to come into pincurchin. Quick Claw does have its perks and it would be pretty funny ngl.
Bisharp running black glasses over lo. This is already a common set in ou, and bisharp only ever clicks iron head, which doesnt cover that much anyway(forced to sucker). Not taking chip is a great thing.
I don't really like that idea, LO Bisharp hits very hard and taking chip isn't that big of a deal for a Pokemon that's not very bulky. Plus, Bisharp's Iron Head obviously hits Fairies and not having a Life Orb would mean it misses on a lot of KOs.
Lvl 80 84 Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Clefable: 206-246 (71 - 84.8%), (92.4 - 110.3%) with LO (56% chance to OHKO)
Lvl 80 84 Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 Def Alcremie-Gmax: 194-230 (76.9 - 91.2%), (100 - 118.6%) with LO
Lvl 80 84 Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Primarina: 102-121 (38.4 - 45.6%), (50.1 - 59.2%) with LO (so guaranteed 2HKO)
Aight I am once again suggesting a support Glalie instead of the current Moody set.
The current Glalie is level 80 meaning it really lacks to do any damage at all, unless you hit something for 4x super effective damage.
Here are some examples:
Lvl 80 84 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 Def Heatran: 196-232 (72.5 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Doesn't Ohko
Lvl 80 84 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. Lvl 74 84 HP / 84 SpD Giratina: 98-116 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO. - What
Lvl 80 84 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 SpD Gastrodon: 232-276 (71.6 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Also doesn't Ohko despite
being 4x
Of course you would Ohko these Pokemon if you got some lucky moody boosts in earlier turns. But is relying on luck really the only way to make use of Glalie in gen 8 rands? I don't think so. Instead of having to rely on lucky moody boosts I think Glalie would be better of just having the Inner Focus ability and being Level 88/90 in gen 8 rands. In my opinion Moody isnt a competitive ability at all because it is just 100% pure luck and you can either get good boosts or bad drops (making Glalie even weaker). That's probably why Moody is banned in so many other Tiers as well.
I don't want to argue that Inner Focus is a better Ability than Moody. Moody is definitely better than Inner Focus overall. However having Inner Focus would, as I mentioned earlier, also significantly raise Glalie's Level (probably to Level 88/90). Besides Inner Focus also allows Glalie to never flinch from moves like Fake Out, Dark Pulse, Iron Head (Yes it would actually live an Iron Head on level 88) ... + Glalie would be immune to intimidate.
Furthermore Glalie will switch from a 'Sweeper' to a nice support Pokemon. It actually learns a lot of very good support moves, mainly:
Spikes, Super Fang, Explosion, Taunt, Toxic, Freeze Dry + EQ (Which would actually do damage without boosts if Glalie is Level 88)
Again here are some damagecalcs from a Level 88 Glalie:
Lvl 88 84 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Arcanine: 136-162 (48.2 - 57.4%) -- - Gets a 2-hit KO instead of a 3- Hit KO
Lvl 88 84 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. Lvl 74 84 HP / 84 SpD Palkia: 232-276 (90.9 - 108.2%) -- - Actually able to OHKO this
Lvl 88 84 Atk Glalie Explosion vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blissey: 470-554 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- - In certain situations Explosion really pays off
All in all Glalie would be way better of with a support-set instead of a 'Sweeping' Pokemon, which just relies on luck getting the right Moody boosts.
Oh yeah forgot to mention that there are some Pokemon, which just sit on Glalie even if it gets a lot of Moody boosts, mainly:
Unaware Pokemon like Pyukumku and Clefable, Shedinja, Pokemon with Haze like Miltoic and Toxapex
A Moody Glalie simply cannot break through these mons and will always loose a 1v1, whereas a Support Glalie would get around these mons with Taunt, Toxic + Super fang.
The current Glalie is level 80 meaning it really lacks to do any damage at all, unless you hit something for 4x super effective damage.
Here are some examples:
Lvl 80 84 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 Def Heatran: 196-232 (72.5 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Doesn't Ohko
Lvl 80 84 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. Lvl 74 84 HP / 84 SpD Giratina: 98-116 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO. - What
Lvl 80 84 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 SpD Gastrodon: 232-276 (71.6 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Also doesn't Ohko despite
being 4x
Of course you would Ohko these Pokemon if you got some lucky moody boosts in earlier turns. But is relying on luck really the only way to make use of Glalie in gen 8 rands? I don't think so. Instead of having to rely on lucky moody boosts I think Glalie would be better of just having the Inner Focus ability and being Level 88/90 in gen 8 rands. In my opinion Moody isnt a competitive ability at all because it is just 100% pure luck and you can either get good boosts or bad drops (making Glalie even weaker). That's probably why Moody is banned in so many other Tiers as well.
I don't want to argue that Inner Focus is a better Ability than Moody. Moody is definitely better than Inner Focus overall. However having Inner Focus would, as I mentioned earlier, also significantly raise Glalie's Level (probably to Level 88/90). Besides Inner Focus also allows Glalie to never flinch from moves like Fake Out, Dark Pulse, Iron Head (Yes it would actually live an Iron Head on level 88) ... + Glalie would be immune to intimidate.
Furthermore Glalie will switch from a 'Sweeper' to a nice support Pokemon. It actually learns a lot of very good support moves, mainly:
Spikes, Super Fang, Explosion, Taunt, Toxic, Freeze Dry + EQ (Which would actually do damage without boosts if Glalie is Level 88)
Again here are some damagecalcs from a Level 88 Glalie:
Lvl 88 84 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Arcanine: 136-162 (48.2 - 57.4%) -- - Gets a 2-hit KO instead of a 3- Hit KO
Lvl 88 84 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. Lvl 74 84 HP / 84 SpD Palkia: 232-276 (90.9 - 108.2%) -- - Actually able to OHKO this
Lvl 88 84 Atk Glalie Explosion vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blissey: 470-554 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- - In certain situations Explosion really pays off
All in all Glalie would be way better of with a support-set instead of a 'Sweeping' Pokemon, which just relies on luck getting the right Moody boosts.
Oh yeah forgot to mention that there are some Pokemon, which just sit on Glalie even if it gets a lot of Moody boosts, mainly:
Unaware Pokemon like Pyukumku and Clefable, Shedinja, Pokemon with Haze like Miltoic and Toxapex
A Moody Glalie simply cannot break through these mons and will always loose a 1v1, whereas a Support Glalie would get around these mons with Taunt, Toxic + Super fang.
A small correction in that the only mon that can sit on Glalie out of everyone you named is Clefable (and IDK if it currently gets Unaware). Milotic, Toxapex/Pyuku are 3HKO'd by Freeze Dry, while Glalie can easily play around Mirror Coat and Toxic by spamming Substitute. But the moment Glalie gets the lucky Sp Atk boost all of them are gonna get wrecked, Haze or not. This is not an argument against your suggestion - and in fact I quite like it - I just wanted to correct your last paragraph as an argument.
Another small correction. Milotic sits on Glalie with Haze + Scald used for Freeze. Only way Glalie is gonna beat it is if it somehow gets a Sp Atk boost every. single. time.
and no, it isn't a 3HKO vs Milotic, it is a 4HKO.
Another correction, if glalie disables recovery on any of those mons, they lose. Glalie just needs some spedef boosts to live scald/predict correctly.
Do you mean boosts that can be Hazed away?
Either way, it depends on several situations like having Disable and Haze in the first place.
The problem with sitrus berry in singles is that it is too unreliable on a bulky Pokemon like snorlax, it is essentially a one time use unless you dynamax; go for the normal type move (which ghosts are immune to) and get the 50% to get your berry back. Leftovers is often a better item because you can consistent recovery throughout the turns.
A gluttony snorlax with figy berry wouldn't be that nice either because it would have to give up Thick Fat, which is a very nice ability.
In addition Belly Drum is not a good option on a slow Pokemon like snorlax, which does not have access to trick room. Giving up 50% of your HP (even if you recover 25% from sitrus) leaves you open to revenge kills by so many Pokemon, which just simply outspeed snorlax. If we look at the other Pokemon that get Belly Drum, all of them are quite fast ( Darmanitan-G, Eiscue ...)
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Don't know if it's wanted, but I just faced an opponent who had a Hitmonlee with Hi Jump Kick, Curse AND Close Combat, with Unburden and White Herb. (4th move was not used)
I don't think HJK and CC should be rolled on the same set, as it seems suboptimal to me.
IMO the added coverage of CC and 2 of Knock Off, Poison Jab or Stone Edge is far more valuable than having a 120 BP safe fighting move with defensive drawback, a 130 BP riskier fighting type move (but no def/spdef drop) and only one of the aforementioned moves.
Reason I don't know if it's wanted is because I can see the perk of having a STAB that does not consume white herb and activate unburden.
I don't think HJK and CC should be rolled on the same set, as it seems suboptimal to me.
IMO the added coverage of CC and 2 of Knock Off, Poison Jab or Stone Edge is far more valuable than having a 120 BP safe fighting move with defensive drawback, a 130 BP riskier fighting type move (but no def/spdef drop) and only one of the aforementioned moves.
Reason I don't know if it's wanted is because I can see the perk of having a STAB that does not consume white herb and activate unburden.
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This is a persistent, nearly impossible to fix bug that has been known and has existed for over a year. This set used to generate Reckless Leftovers. This set now generates Unburden White Herb, as sort of a band-aid fix. This set only exists 1% of the time.
This isn't an intended set and will probably (not confirmed) be fixed in the next update.
Set suggestion: QD Pheromosa
I am here to suggest a very viable set for pheromosa, QD pheromosa. With amount of switches pheromosa forces, a single QD is extremly easy to set up, and one QD is all it needs to wreck havoc, serving as an immensly threating sweeper or mid/late game cleaner. Able to run 3 very viable items in LO/Expert belt/Sash, QD pheomosa is an immense threat, as band/specs pheromosa heavily struggles with locking itself into one move. LO QD/Focus Miss/Ice Beam/Shock Wave or Bug buzz tears through enemies, with pheromosa's sky high attacks. Focus blast(while inconsistent) is an immense nuke, able to blast past anything that doesn't resist. While shock wave is an admitabily nieche option, it turns pheromosa into a potent dynamax sweeper. Bug buzz offers a strong and accurate stab to blast enemies, and ice beam provides perfect coverage. Added with LO's immense power, QD pheromosa can obliterate anything and everything in its way, while sash can allow it to potentially set up 2 QD's. Personally, expert belt IMO is severely lacking, as pheromosa's bulk is nonexsistent, and the loss of power really hurts.
Some Calcs: (+2 sash is basically +1 lo but with a little bit better rolls, like pex and corv are 100% kos at +2 sash)
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Max Lightning vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 SpD Toxapex: 213-252 (98.6 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Expert Belt Pheromosa Max Lightning vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 SpD Toxapex: 197-233 (91.2 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO(why you dont use expert belt imo)
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Max Lightning vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 SpD Tapu Fini: 239-283 (100.8 - 119.4%)
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Max Lightning vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 SpD Tentacruel: 237-281 (87.1 - 103.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 SpD Corviknight: 273-321 (97.1 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 SpD Blissey: 359-424 (65 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(Needs chipped bliss here)
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. Lvl 68 84 HP / 84 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 257-304 (104.8 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 SpD Rotom-Wash: 218-257 (100.9 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Only thing that this might have a bit of trouble breaking are bulky mons that resist fighting/bug and arn't weak to electic/ice such as pure fairies(clef + alcremie) and of course it loses to rng(focus miss >_>). And I realize dmax is a thing, but forcing your opponent to make an unfavorable dmax puts you in a much better situation. This would be even better if it had all its attack and speed evs taken away so beast boost boosts special attack, but alas.
I am here to suggest a very viable set for pheromosa, QD pheromosa. With amount of switches pheromosa forces, a single QD is extremly easy to set up, and one QD is all it needs to wreck havoc, serving as an immensly threating sweeper or mid/late game cleaner. Able to run 3 very viable items in LO/Expert belt/Sash, QD pheomosa is an immense threat, as band/specs pheromosa heavily struggles with locking itself into one move. LO QD/Focus Miss/Ice Beam/Shock Wave or Bug buzz tears through enemies, with pheromosa's sky high attacks. Focus blast(while inconsistent) is an immense nuke, able to blast past anything that doesn't resist. While shock wave is an admitabily nieche option, it turns pheromosa into a potent dynamax sweeper. Bug buzz offers a strong and accurate stab to blast enemies, and ice beam provides perfect coverage. Added with LO's immense power, QD pheromosa can obliterate anything and everything in its way, while sash can allow it to potentially set up 2 QD's. Personally, expert belt IMO is severely lacking, as pheromosa's bulk is nonexsistent, and the loss of power really hurts.
Some Calcs: (+2 sash is basically +1 lo but with a little bit better rolls, like pex and corv are 100% kos at +2 sash)
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Max Lightning vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 SpD Toxapex: 213-252 (98.6 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Expert Belt Pheromosa Max Lightning vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 SpD Toxapex: 197-233 (91.2 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO(why you dont use expert belt imo)
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Max Lightning vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 SpD Tapu Fini: 239-283 (100.8 - 119.4%)
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Max Lightning vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 SpD Tentacruel: 237-281 (87.1 - 103.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 SpD Corviknight: 273-321 (97.1 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 SpD Blissey: 359-424 (65 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(Needs chipped bliss here)
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. Lvl 68 84 HP / 84 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 257-304 (104.8 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 Lvl 76 84 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 SpD Rotom-Wash: 218-257 (100.9 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Only thing that this might have a bit of trouble breaking are bulky mons that resist fighting/bug and arn't weak to electic/ice such as pure fairies(clef + alcremie) and of course it loses to rng(focus miss >_>). And I realize dmax is a thing, but forcing your opponent to make an unfavorable dmax puts you in a much better situation. This would be even better if it had all its attack and speed evs taken away so beast boost boosts special attack, but alas.
This was discussed but the sweeping potential was deemed to be not worth the inconsistency of the set and the reliance on Focus Blast instead of Close Combat for all non-qd sets.
Quiver Dance Pheromosa has been a topic in the past but, as you said, it is just way too unreliable.
Pheromosa's speed is already sky high (+ you even get a speed boost from beast boost) so you don't really need the speed boost from QD. The sp.def boost sounds nice but more often than not it won't save you from special type attacks because Pheromosa's defenses are just that low. The only noticeable good thing about QD is that you get the Sp.att boost from it. However switching from a Physical to special set also means that you cannot boost your offenses with max moves anymore since you do not have access to poison jab. The physical set can boost its Attack stat with Max knuckle and has 2 very reliable physical STAB moves in U-turn and Close Combat. A 70% acc. Focus Blast is simply not good enough, especially if you have to take a heavy hit in return for you miss.
Moreover wasting a turn in trying to setup a frail Pokemon like Pheromosa is often very risky since even if you get the QD up it would leave Pheromosa open to priority moves afterwards.
Lastly giving up on Poison jab and U-turn is not preferred because ,as you said, fairies will be a brick wall for Pheromosa and U-turn gives you good momentum in certain situations.
Oh yeah and: Giving up Speed Evs on Pheromosa is out of the question since every Pokemon follows the 84 Evs in every stat formula. (Except Trick room mons and full special attackers (0 Att. Evs)); Nihilego is an exception because you only had to give up on a little bit of sp.def evs to get the sp.att boost. Pheromosa however really needs to give up on a lot of speed if you want to get the sp.att/att. boost.
i have a feeling this isn't suppose to happen
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Remove clear smog from gastrodon pls, is not enought bulk to make it work, 100% is better the toxic damage
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