Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[Pikachu315111]

Can someone explain what Rock Smash actually is? The description says it's a punch, but the learnset doesn't corelate.

Odd it species a punch, because what it is is the name of the move: the Pokemon summons the strength that's strong enough to smash a rock. While most Pokemon would probably use their first, I don't see why a Pokemon couldn't do it with their leg, tail, body, or head.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Can someone explain what Rock Smash actually is? The description says it's a punch, but the learnset doesn't corelate.

I'm pretty sure it's just a generic attack that is somehow more effective at smashing rocks and armor than actually dealing damage (I don't think that's how real-world attacks work, as I imagine a club heavy enough to smash armor would be even more effective at crushing flesh, but I'm not a weapons expert). It's like Glare, where the description was inexplicably changed in a later generation despite the new description obviously not being universally applicable.

 

[R_N]

Punching/Chopping rock(giant stone slabs) is something people do in real life (albeit for competitions) and then that gets exaggerated in anime and stuff too. So Rock Smash is probably a "punch" move just to go with the more fun way of breaking rocks.




.....hm. It was originally not specified as a "punch" in its desription until gen 4. Which came alongside the Iron Fist ability. So you'd think there may have been a connection there but no...Rock Smash isn't classified as a punching move. A definite oddity.

 

[CoolMan6001]

I'm pretty sure it's just a generic attack that is somehow more effective at smashing rocks and armor than actually dealing damage (I don't think that's how real-world attacks work, as I imagine a club heavy enough to smash armor would be even more effective at crushing flesh, but I'm not a weapons expert). It's like Glare, where the description was inexplicably changed in a later generation despite the new description obviously not being universally applicable.

Funny you mention Glare because in relation to this:

.....hm. It was originally not specified as a "punch" in its desription until gen 4. Which came alongside the Iron Fist ability. So you'd think there may have been a connection there but no...Rock Smash isn't classified as a punching move. A definite oddity.

I wanted to mention how Glare started to mention a pattern on a belly back in FrLg, and Rock Smash mentioned a punch starting in gen IV. I think both of these cases are simply a text limitation thing, but considering Glare, it might have been given a new description specifically for Ekans/Arbok. Rock Smash though, appears to just be two people dissagreeing with each other on what it is.

 

[Earthflax]

New to this thread and don't really know what has been shared, but I found it very weird that

1. Latias gets Sucker Punch. It's known for helping humans and Pokemon alike, but it can easily punch something with no mercy. I can see how this one work, though, because Sucker Punch can only be used when your opponent is going to attack, so it might be a self-defense thing. I still find it weird, though.

2. Gogoat gets Milk Drink, but not other livestock-based animals.

3. What is the reasoning behind Sirfetch'd, Haxorus, and Falinks getting First Impression?

 

[TerrickTerran]

Well Sucker Punch is really Surprise Attack so it works.
Only thing I can guess for Milk Drink on Gogoat is the popularity of goat milk in some places.
Last one I have no idea.

 

[TMan87]

New to this thread and don't really know what has been shared, but I found it very weird that

1. Latias gets Sucker Punch. It's known for helping humans and Pokemon alike, but it can easily punch something with no mercy. I can see how this one work, though, because Sucker Punch can only be used when your opponent is going to attack, so it might be a self-defense thing. I still find it weird, though.

2. Gogoat gets Milk Drink, but not other livestock-based animals.

3. What is the reasoning behind Sirfetch'd, Haxorus, and Falinks getting First Impression?

Sucker Punch Latias is because Sucker Punch should translate as "Surprise Attack", and Latias can make herself invisible, which naturally lends itself well to launching a surprise attack.

Goat milk is the likely explanation, but even male goats can produce milk in certain cases!

I've got nothing for First Impression though. Did you know that Flygon learns it too?

 

[R_N]

For First Impression, which is Head-on Assault, I think it's just meant ot represent Sirfetch'd & Falink's personalities. Rushing head first into an assault
And also might be a pun on Falinks body type...might explain Haxorus too for that matter.

 

[Earthflax]

Well Sucker Punch is really Surprise Attack so it works.
Only thing I can guess for Milk Drink on Gogoat is the popularity of goat milk in some places.
Last one I have no idea.

There are other livestock-based animals that could get it though. I agree with the Sucker Punch explanation though.

 

[Earthflax]

Sucker Punch Latias is because Sucker Punch should translate as "Surprise Attack", and Latias can make herself invisible, which naturally lends itself well to launching a surprise attack.

Goat milk is the likely explanation, but even male goats can produce milk in certain cases!

I've got nothing for First Impression though. Did you know that Flygon learns it too?

Yeah, I did, but it kind of makes sense for Trapinch specifically.

For First Impression, which is Head-on Assault, I think it's just meant ot represent Sirfetch'd & Falink's personalities. Rushing head first into an assault
And also might be a pun on Falinks body type...might explain Haxorus too for that matter.

This is also possible, but I can think of a few other Pokemon that could get it if this was the case.

Sorry for the double post.

 

[R_N]

There are other livestock-based animals that could get it though. I agree with the Sucker Punch explanation though.

I think it comes down to Goat Milk is a thing most people know about (and make jokes about, depending on the era) unlike, say, Sheep milk

 

[Celever]

3. What is the reasoning behind Sirfetch'd, Haxorus, and Falinks getting First Impression?

I actually think that the Bug-Type Pokémon are the ones who First Impression is most confusing for.

• Farfetch'd is based off the Japanese expressions "a duck comes bearing onions", which is used when referring to something unexpected but good.
• Falinks looks like a long Pokémon with one body, but is in fact six little dudes working together, which catches opponents off-guard.
• Trapinch "makes a conical pit in desert sand and lies in wait at the bottom for prey to come tumbling down" (Gen IV and V dex entry), which is certainly an element of surprise.
• Axew: "They play with each other by knocking their large tusks together. Their tusks break sometimes, but they grow back so quickly that it isn't a concern." (Shield) makes more sense with the Japanese name of Head On Assault, where they rush into battle with their heads without hesitation (hence priority) because their tusks grow back should they break.

And then finally we have Durant and Golisopod. Durant makes some level of sense because it has huge mandibles, a high speed stat, and Hustle, so it makes sense for one to charge into battle head-first immediately after being sent out, but I would argue no more sense than some Pokémon who don't learn the move besides it being STAB. On the other hand, Golisopod has very little connection to the move itself. The closest it comes to a justfication is "It will do anything to win, taking advantage of every opening and finishing opponents off with the small claws on its front legs." (Sword) but that honestly sounds more like a justification for Sucker Punch. Obviously the attack has good synergy with Emergency Exit, but that's gameplay justification rather than flavour.

I think most of the oddness surrounding it stems from the question of why the heck it's Bug-Type to begin with. Head On Assault is a name you would expect to see on a Fighting- or Normal-Type move, and First Impression is probably Dark-Type more than anything else thematically. I think it's cool that it is Bug-Type because it helps make it a better-rounded type, but it brings up some weird flavour quirks when there's nothing inherently bug-related about it.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Milk Drink:
The two other Pokemon I can see getting Milk Drink is Kangaskhan and Milcery family.
The context of Milk Drink is the Pokemon is capable of producing extra milk which itself or others can drink. Considering the two Pokemon which learn Milk Drink, Miltank (cow) and the Skiddo family (goats), these Pokemon are based on animals which in real life are commercially milked (other animals milked are sheep, yaks, water buffalo, horses, reindeer and camels). We also need to take into account that for most species it's only the females who can produce milk, goats are a special exception as males can produce milk.
So with those criteria there's no other Pokemon that can learn Milk Drink (aside the two I mentioned above)... UNLESS we restrict the move to female only. Like, there's a Milk Drink Move Tutor who'll teach certain female Pokemon how to use the move. Under that scenario, I suppose the following female Pokemon can learn Milk Drink: Ponyta family, Mareep family, Stantler, Numel family, Blitzle family, Deerling family, Bouffalant, Mudbray family, Wooloo family; maybe you can also add Girafarig if you want to stretch it.

First Impression:
First Impression is just one of those moves which "just is". Why is it Bug-type? Because its closely associated with Golisopod (you'll find this a case with a lot of Bug-types moves, it's associated with certain Bug-type Pokemon, as we discussed this recently on the Little Annoyance thread). Why do so few Pokemon learn it? I guess they want to keep it special? There's plenty of Bug-types that would like having it and can probably justify a few other Pokemon getting it too.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

On the other hand, Golisopod has very little connection to the move itself. The closest it comes to a justfication is "It will do anything to win, taking advantage of every opening and finishing opponents off with the small claws on its front legs." (Sword) but that honestly sounds more like a justification for Sucker Punch. Obviously the attack has good synergy with Emergency Exit, but that's gameplay justification rather than flavour.

Golisopod in general is an enigma. Like, Wimpod is a cowardly bug. Real-life bugs tend to run away when they sense danger, Wimpod is repeatedly referred to as cowardly in the Pokedex, and its ability Wimp Out has it run away and hide as soon as shit hits the fan. Makes sense. It evolves, and now it's a super tough samurai bug for some reason? Emergency Exit sounds like making a tactical retreat, but it's functionally identical to Wimp Out. The Pokedex says it will do whatever it needs to do to win, which could feasibly include retreating to so it can live to fight another day, but instead of giving any mention of retreating, the Pokedex talks about how its shell is hard as diamond and how it skillfully uses its four small arms and two giant claws to beat the shit out of anything. That sounds like something that has never needed to retreat from a fight, because as soon as the opponent comes close to land a hit, Golisopod just tanks the attack and tears the fool to shreds.

The most frustrating part is that there were multiple ways for Golisopod to make sense, and its falls just short of all of them.

• Golisopod evolved to be super strong and scary in order to deter others from even attempting to mess with it, because at its core it's still a coward. Just change the Pokedex entries to reflect that, and now Golisopod makes sense, and "Emergency Exit" is just it trying to save face.
• Golisopod evolved to be super strong and scary because it was tired of being, as it would probably put it if it could talk, "a little bitch". Change one or two Pokedex entries to reflect this, and swap out Emergency Exit for Tough Claws or Battle Armor or whatever, and now Golisopod makes sense and is an even better fit for Guzma.
• Golisopod was again tired of being weak, but instead of just becoming a fearless brute, it honed and tempered its inherent cowardice into valuable combat skills. It was already naturally hyperaware of its surroundings, so it turned that into something of a Spider Sense that it uses to dodge or block incoming attacks and pinpoint openings in an enemy's defenses, instead of defaulting to "run away" every time it senses anything out of the ordinary. And unlike the Golisopod from the previous bullet point, this Golisopod will unashamedly follow its instincts and retreat if it determines that to be the optimal decision. Change a few Pokedex entries, maybe have Emergency Exit force the switch after Golisopod attacks, and now Golisopod makes sense.

 

[R_N]

It is a missed opportunity to not have the Rotom Dex drag Golisopod for still being a coward, agreed.


also i like how all of them are about how tough it is and how vicious it is but then you have its Moon entry

It battles skillfully with its six arms, but spends most of its time peacefully meditating in caves deep beneath the sea.

where it's a proper samurai undergoing peaceful meditation beneath a waterfall the sea

 

[DrPumpkinz]

It is a missed opportunity to not have the Rotom Dex drag Golisopod for still being a coward, agreed.


also i like how all of them are about how tough it is and how vicious it is but then you have its Moon entry

where it's a proper samurai undergoing peaceful meditation beneath a waterfall the sea

There's another entry doesn't fall in line with being tough and vicious, and once again, it's an enigma.
Ultra Moon:

Its claws, which it can extend and retract at will, are its greatest weapons. Golisopod is sometimes accompanied by Wimpod.

What are those Wimpod doing with a Golisopod? Is the Golisopod protecting them? Why does this only happen sometimes?

 

[R_N]

In conclusion Golisopod is a pokemon of contrasts

 

[Pikachu315111]

What are those Wimpod doing with a Golisopod? Is the Golisopod protecting them? Why does this only happen sometimes?

The Wimpod are the Golisopod's vassals?

 

[Hematite]

On the other hand, Golisopod has very little connection to the move itself. The closest it comes to a justfication is "It will do anything to win, taking advantage of every opening and finishing opponents off with the small claws on its front legs." (Sword) but that honestly sounds more like a justification for Sucker Punch. Obviously the attack has good synergy with Emergency Exit, but that's gameplay justification rather than flavour.

First of all, the move was literally made for Golisopod, so... ???

The mechanics of the move are actually perfectly in line with Golisopod's known behavior: despite being extremely powerful and imposing, it's also anywhere from pacifistic to cowardly and prefers to avoid battle where possible.
The opponent's "first impression" of Golisopod is that it's a terrifying, brutally vicious creature - but Golisopod also gives up easily. Rather than maintaining that pressure on its opponents all throughout the battle, it simply can't live up to that expectation consistently. First Impression is its way to shut down conflict before it starts, and the fact that it can't be used after the first turn is rooted in Golisopod's unwillingness to keep fighting (whether, again, from timidity or pacifism) when that doesn't immediately end the battle. The mechanics of the move, especially in conjunction with First Impression, are effectively telling a story - it's not just that they synergize mechanically but the implications of the way that synergy manifests in flavor - and that story was always meant to be about Golisopod specifically.
The name and flavor didn't really need to be any more specific than this at first because Golisopod was the only Pokémon that could learn it in the first place; we were already expected to have these qualities in mind when we interpreted the move. Sword and Shield making weird decisions with its distribution may have thrown a wrench in that, but I think it makes more intuitive sense for Golisopod than any of the other Pokémon that learn it, and all of the rest seem like they're defined in relation to the qualities Golisopod itself has.

 

[R_N]

THe localizers deciding to call it First Impression instead of Head-on Assault was a really good move, gotta say.

 

[CPU]

The move's function and animation makes it pretty clear to me that it's an attack that happens in the split second when you uncover a creature you don't expect to find and both you and the creature are in momentary shock.

And then the huge zen isopod comes to its senses first and bashes your head in.

 

[Earthflax]

I actually think that the Bug-Type Pokémon are the ones who First Impression is most confusing for.

• Farfetch'd is based off the Japanese expressions "a duck comes bearing onions", which is used when referring to something unexpected but good.
• Falinks looks like a long Pokémon with one body, but is in fact six little dudes working together, which catches opponents off-guard.
• Trapinch "makes a conical pit in desert sand and lies in wait at the bottom for prey to come tumbling down" (Gen IV and V dex entry), which is certainly an element of surprise.
• Axew: "They play with each other by knocking their large tusks together. Their tusks break sometimes, but they grow back so quickly that it isn't a concern." (Shield) makes more sense with the Japanese name of Head On Assault, where they rush into battle with their heads without hesitation (hence priority) because their tusks grow back should they break.

And then finally we have Durant and Golisopod. Durant makes some level of sense because it has huge mandibles, a high speed stat, and Hustle, so it makes sense for one to charge into battle head-first immediately after being sent out, but I would argue no more sense than some Pokémon who don't learn the move besides it being STAB. On the other hand, Golisopod has very little connection to the move itself. The closest it comes to a justfication is "It will do anything to win, taking advantage of every opening and finishing opponents off with the small claws on its front legs." (Sword) but that honestly sounds more like a justification for Sucker Punch. Obviously the attack has good synergy with Emergency Exit, but that's gameplay justification rather than flavour.

I think most of the oddness surrounding it stems from the question of why the heck it's Bug-Type to begin with. Head On Assault is a name you would expect to see on a Fighting- or Normal-Type move, and First Impression is probably Dark-Type more than anything else thematically. I think it's cool that it is Bug-Type because it helps make it a better-rounded type, but it brings up some weird flavour quirks when there's nothing inherently bug-related about it.

Using this logic, every Pokemon from Absol to Zygarde should receive First Impression, simply because they fight others without hesitation. On Bisharp specifically, considering its Sucker Punch history, it would make perfect sense that it would go rushing into battle. It seems there is/should be another rationale behind why these specific Pokemon are given the move.

 

[Siggu]

So I was having a look at Will-O-Wisp.

The move's description, as of Sword and Shield, is the following: "The user shoots a sinister flame at the target to inflict a burn."

Appropriately for this, the vast majority of Pokémon that learn this move have a Ghost or Fire typing. There's also the Ralts line and Darkrai (who have a ghostly appearance), Arceus (who can become a Ghost-type), Mew (because it can learn all TMs, HMs, TRs and generic tutor moves), Mewtwo (likely because it's based on Mew), and Solrock (representing the sun).

There's also Weezing among the Pokémon that can learn Will-O-Wisp. Why?

 

[Worldie]

There's also Weezing among the Pokémon that can learn Will-O-Wisp. Why?

Wild guess is because Weezing is a pokemon that's based off smog/pollution, and it being able to emit a burning flame isn't very off. It can even learn Flamethrower so spitting fire isn't exactly impossible.

There's also the fact certain acids also leave burns, and again, we're talking of a pokemon based off smog.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

So I was having a look at Will-O-Wisp.

The move's description, as of Sword and Shield, is the following: "The user shoots a sinister flame at the target to inflict a burn."

Appropriately for this, the vast majority of Pokémon that learn this move have a Ghost or Fire typing. There's also the Ralts line and Darkrai (who have a ghostly appearance), Arceus (who can become a Ghost-type), Mew (because it can learn all TMs, HMs, TRs and generic tutor moves), Mewtwo (likely because it's based on Mew), and Solrock (representing the sun).

There's also Weezing among the Pokémon that can learn Will-O-Wisp. Why?

For a while now, Koffing and Weezing have been lightly associated with Ghost and Fire types, which is fitting seeing as they're floating sacks of combustible gas. They also learn moves like Psybeam, Grudge, and Fire Blast through TMs/breeding, as well as Destiny Bond and now Heat Wave through level up.

EDIT: I realized it might not be immediately obvious why it makes sense for a floating sack of combustible gas to be associated with Ghost and Fire (especially Ghost). Ghosts are often depicted as floating and intangible like gas, and fire is what you get when something combusts.