Phoenix Apricari (Peaked #1)

[Mrjamvad]

PHOENIX APRICARI!


~

Peak:​

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The team at a glance:​

Yo, My name's Mrjamvad, or Mencemeat as I go by on the PO server, and this is the first team I'm sharing on the forums. So, in this RMT that I made with my good friend Morning Sun, I'm going to be showcasing an Ubers Sun Volt Turn team based around Sub Recover Ho-Oh that peaked at #1 on the PO ladder, and has shown me a great deal of success in the time I've had it. Essentially, the purpose of the team was to abuse Ho-Oh's ability to rip apart the metagame with its respective weather in play, and I surrounded it with teammates that I felt could deal with opposing weather and just in general support it well. Also, this team really allowed for Xatu, an excellent supporter in the Ubers metagame to shine.

On to the team!​

Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 240 HP / 172 Def / 96 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Roar​

So, in the lead spot, we've got Ho-Oh's right hand man Groudon. Groudon is a dominating presence in the metagame because of its ability to manipulate the ever important weather that allows Ho-Oh to excel. The moveset is fairly straightforward; Groudon is my main Physical tank, and sets up the ever important Stealth Rocks which aid in applying pressure offensively for Volt Turn to function effectively, seeing as there is no other form of entry hazard on this team. EdgeQuake coming from Groudon's impressive attack stat even uninvested makes sure that Groudon is not setup fodder, and Roar allows me to phaze threats such as Extreme Killer and Substitute abusers. The EV spread is such that Groudon can outspeed sub Giratina-O and Roar before the Dragon Tail, as well as being able to catch things like slower Ho-Oh off guard. 172 Defense EVs is still plenty bulky. Again, Groudon functions mainly as a defensive pivot into things like Zekrom, and a sturdy shuffler.
​

Arceus (Arceus-Water) @ Splash Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SDef / 56 Spd
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Spacial Rend
- Perish Song
- Flamethrower​

This is a bit of an interesting choice. Arceus-Water was my Arceus of choice on this team, mainly because I wanted to try something different, as opposed to Latias, a very common sight on Sun teams, as a Kyogre switch-in. Also, Arceus-Water's great defensive typing gave me a check to Kyurem-White which otherwise does give this team problems. As far as EVing is concerned, it's a standard Specially Defensive build with enough Speed to outspeed Adamant Rayquaza and Modest Kyurem-W. The moveset is a bit specialized: Recover, of course, is pretty standard; Spacial Rend, however, was thrown on here as opposed to perhaps Ice Beam because of its ability to hit Palkia, Reshiram, and Kyurem-W for Super Effective damage. Ice Beam wasn't necessary because the only thing of relevance it hits harder is Rayquaza, which is still nailed by Spacial Rend. Flamethrower is the next move on the set, and it on here mainly to hit unsuspecting Ferrothorn and Forretress which see Arceus-Water as a free switch and a free spin respectively. Dragon/Fire is in generally is just good coverage, so there's that. Now for perhaps the most important move on the set: Perish Song. Perish Song is essentially here so that Arceus-Water does not become set up fodder for pokemon such as Calm Mind
Arceus formes and Substitute Ho-Oh, and forces switches like no one's business, aiding in building momentum for the rest of the team.​

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SAtk / 224 Spd
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Explosion​

Next up is the first of our double scarf Volt Turn core, the newly banished Genesect! Physically based mixed Genesect is definitely among the best Revenge killers and scouters in the Ubers metagame. Access to a STAB U-turn coming off of a base 120 attack stat is nothing to laugh at, and the dominance of things like Mewtwo, Lati@s, and Darkrai makes a strong Bug attack all the more useful. Iron Head is used as a Secondary STAB which, honestly, is not all that useful most of the time. However, it does come in handy against the occasional Kyurem formes and Terrakion. Ice Beam is used as the special attack for its ability to revenge Dragons like Rayquaza who manage to nab a boost, while Explosion is used as a last ditch nuke to deal as much damage as possible before sacrificing Genesect. A Naive nature is used over a Hasty one because Genesect in Ubers greatly appreciates the ability to take Psytrikes from Mewtwo and ExtremeSpeeds from Arceus and Rayquaza a bit better, and the EVs are such that Attack is maximized and I can outspeed Positive Natured base 95s after a boost, while the rest is poured into Special Attack to have a better chance at OHKOing Rayquaza without the SAtk boost from Download.

Xatu (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 40 SAtk / 8 Spd
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Grass Knot​

"Uhm, why is there a Xatu on an Ubers team?" is what you're probably wondering, but you'd be dead wrong to assume this guy can't function well in an environment with Draco's off base 170 Special Attack stats flying around. Now, Xatu isn't exactly the first choice that comes to mind for a spot on a Sun team; generally something like a Forretress would be used here to provide Ho-Oh with much needed Rapid Spin support. However, I found that the majority of the time it was very difficult for Forretress to actually get a spin off, with things like the Giratinas and Arceus-Ghost blocking poor forry's attempts at spinning. In response to this, I decided to give Xatu a go, taking a more bold approach to preventing hazards. Xatu works wonders in preventing hazards, in particular Spikes because it completely shuts down the most common spikers in the tier being Ferrothorn and Forretress, and having the ability to beat opposing defensive Groudon 1v1. Getting into the moveset, I decided to go with a defensive 3 attacks + Roost set as opposed to screens. U-turn is the first move on the set; it's a great tool in gaining momentum for the rest of the team, and fits with the whole Volt Turn combo along with Genesect and Zekrom. Heat Wave works very well in Sun to get rid of common Spikers as mentioned previously, and is quite a powerful attack in general when boosted by the Sun. Roost is there to keep Xatu healthy and allows it to beat Groudon carrying Stone Edge 1v1 in conjunction with the next move on the set: Grass Knot. I chose Grass Knot in the last slot because it is very useful in dealing damage to the two most Common weather inducers in Groudon and Kyogre. Grass Knot has base 120 power against both of these and can generally 2HKO standard Defensive Groudon. The EV spread maximizes Xatu's physical bulk while the Special Attack investment allows Grass Knot to hit incoming Kyogre for a bit more damage.

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 180 Atk / 96 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Recover
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird

And now onto the star of the show, one of the biggest threats in the entire Ubers metagame, Ho-Oh! Ho-Oh is easily one of the most volatile threats in the metagame, and this is the case due the very specific traits Ho-Oh possesses in Sky high Special Defense and HP along with great Attack and one of the best abilities in the entire game, making Ho-Oh very difficult to switch into, and even harder to take down. These traits allow Ho-Oh to set up with surprising ease, and when in Sun its Sacred Fire absolute shreds through anything without a 4x resist or an outright immunity. Subsitute is the crux of the set, as Ho-Oh's bulk forces plenty of switches and allows it to fire off a free attack on the switch in, while Regenerator forgives the HP lost. Sacred Fire is an amazing move, as its 50% burn chance is very handy in crippling just about any incoming Pokemon. Brave Bird hits just about anything Sacred Fire doesn't for huge damage, dealing upwards of 70% to offensive Kyogre among other common switch ins. Any free switch to Ho-Oh is much obliged, and the Volt-Turning provides just that, which is why I felt Ho-Oh would thrive in this type of environment. On to the EVs: 232 HP EVs retains a great deal of bulk while giving up a few EVs to invest in Speed, 180 Atk to hit like a truck and 96 speed to outspeed the majority of oppsing Ho-Oh and Groudon.​

Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Volt Switch
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage
​

Last but certainly not least is the Volt in our Volt-turn. Zekrom is easily one of the hardest pokemon to switch into in this metagame, mainly due to the phenomonal coverage provided by its dual Dragon/Electric STAB, the only common resists being Ferrothorn and Excadrill. Zekrom is a great all around answer to Rain teams, as Ferrothorn is the only common pokemon on Rain that can really shut down Zekrom. It may seem odd to have two Choice Scarf users on the same team, but I needed a powerful attacker with a sizable speed, so I decided to run Scarf Zekrom. The Adamant nature is used because Zekrom is not used as a revenge killer per se, so the extra power is much obliged. The moveset is fairly simple: Volt Switch, along with Zekrom's 2 most powerful Physical STABS, and Sleep Talk as the fourth move to absorb sleep from things like Darkrai and hit it with an attack next turn. EV spread is standard of an attacker.
​

So, in conclusion, a lot of this team's success came from the momentum provided by my Volt Turn Core, in conjunction with Ho-Oh's ability to rip through a good portion of teams, and Zekrom's ability to clean up very well late game. While this team can handle pretty much anything in the meta, but Calm Mind Arceus-Electric has got to be one of if not the biggest threat to this team, mainly because it can beat my answers to other Calm Mind Arceus formes in Ho-Oh and Arceus-Water 1v1.​

And there we are. Thanks for reading! Importable below:

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Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 240 HP / 172 Def / 96 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Roar

Arceus (Arceus-Water) @ Splash Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SDef / 56 Spd
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Spacial Rend
- Perish Song
- Flamethrower

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SAtk / 224 Spd
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Explosion

Xatu (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 40 SAtk / 8 Spd
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Light Screen

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 180 Atk / 96 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Recover
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird

Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Volt Switch
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage

 

[Number1Rok]

Way to steal my team

 

[i Darky]

Congratz on the ladder peak! I think I've played against this team before and I like the uniqueness of Arceus-Water. However, the Arceus-Water set with Spacial Rend seem a bit weird, I guess it takes care of Palkia and other Dragons, however I feel Ice beam is superior here because of its ability to OHKO Rayquaza which Spacial Rend fails to do. Also, it still gives you a solid hit on Lati@s, Zekrom and the Giratina-formes without losing PP easily, and lets you hit Lugia for better damage (which still isn't great)

Damage Calculations based on the suggestions

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0 SpAtk Arceus-Water Spacial Rend vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Rayquaza: 52.42% - 62.11% (2 hits to KO)
0 SpAtk Arceus-Water Ice Beam vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Rayquaza: 99.15% - 117.38% (93.75% chance to OHKO)
0 SpAtk Arceus-Water Ice Beam vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Lugia: 26.92% - 31.73% (4 hits to KO) (Assuming MS is broken)

Secondly, Arceus-Rock with WoW seems like a big threat to your team. It can burn your Groudon, Genesect, & Zekrom on switch and render them helpless. I guess you could try to burn it with Ho-oh's Sacred Fire on the switch and get it within range of Genesect's Iron Head or Zekrom's Bolt Strike. To be honest I'm not really sure how to remedy this without replacing a teammate, but I guess you could consider Lum Berry on Groudon to be able to absorb the WoW and strike back hard with Earthquake.

 

[Hack]

I like this team, as I myself value magic bounce in the Übers tier very much!

Some suggestions, since this is an offensive team, I'd use something else than Waterceus to check Kyogre, like:

Palkia @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump

Palkia keeps your momuntum, while that defensive Waterceus is just breaking it. It hits 10/17 types for SE, so instead of using a a defensive mon to check the king of Übers, you have an unstoppable force (trust me, this dishes out damage). It will bring you momentum, I can assure you.

Below is a post by the friend who invented the set:

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Leftovers Palkia is one of my personal proudest creations among the innumerable trademark Pokémon movesets that I have created during my time as a Pokémon trainer, and I'm also happy to see that I have influenced HackHeMust, Imma Fly and others to use it as well Besides its invaluable 4x resistance to Fire and Water, Palkia's greatest advantage to me is not its 100 base Speed as many people believe, but rather its incredibly awesome offensive coverage, being able to hit 10 out of the 17 Pokémon types super effectively with its four moves listed in the above set, while having perfect neutral coverage at the same time, and being able to abuse both of the Übers tier's dominant weather conditions. As such, rather than taking advantage of its ability to outrun Choice Scarf Genesect and +1 Dragon Dance Rayquaza when equiped with a Choice Scarf, as the vast majority of people seem to choose to do, something that is only greatly promoted by the fact that Choice Scarf is considered to be Palkia's #1 set on Smogon's analysis of this Pokémon, my approach to using Palkia is to simply abuse the fact that it is near-uncounterable given the freedom to switch attacks without being locked into one move by an annoying Choice item, which tends to result in it being easily walled by Pokémon like Ferrothorn. When Palkia does not need to lock itself into one move every time it attacks, it can suddenly, without worry, Fire Blast the opponent's Ferrothorn switch-in right after coming into a Kyogre, something it would be quite hesitant to do if it were holding a Choice Scarf, since having Palkia locked into that move in the rain would be extremely detrimental if its trainer mispredicts. And furthermore, even if a Choice Scarf Palkia successfully predicts a Ferrothorn switch-in and hits it with a Fire Blast, Palkia's trainer on the next turn is then forced to either switch or shoot a second rain-weakened Fire Blast, which could allow the opponent to send out one of the many Pokémon that can easily take that move, such as their Kyogre, and therefore gain momentum. But if Palkia isn't holding a Choice Scarf, then after Fire Blasting the opponent's Ferrothorn on the switch, its trainer can then proceed to predict the opponent switching their Ferrothorn out, and gain a further advantage by hitting yet another Pokémon hard on the switch with one of Palkia's three other moves, including its absurdly powerful rain-boosted Hydro Pump. Generally, what puts me off from the exceedingly popular Choice Scarf Palkia is the sheer ease with which it can be played around with proper prediction and therefore resulting in its trainer losing momentum as they have to switch out and possibly rack up entry hazard damage on their team every time the opponent sends out a Pokémon resistant to the move in which Palkia is locked, and seeing as Ferrothorn walls every move of Choice Scarf Palkia besides Fire Blast, using Choice Scarf Palkia is also an extremely easy way to let Ferrothorn freely set up many layers of entry hazards, or spread annoying status or Leech Seed. Being set-up bait for Extreme Killer Arceus, the best Pokémon in the game when it is locked into any moves besides Hydro Pump in the rain, as well as having no resistance to ExtremeSpeed like the top two Choice Scarf Pokémon in Übers, Terrakion and Genesect, does it no favor either.

Although Lustrous Orb is generally the preferred item for Palkia when people are not thinking of Choice Scarf or Choice Specs, due to its ability to bluff the aforementioned two items, my preference for Leftovers is because my experience tells me that this item allows Palkia to switch into Kyogre, one of the most threatening Pokémon in the game, significantly more times throughout a match, and its ability to serve this purpose becomes much more apparent when Palkia gets burned by Scald. In fact, although even Leftovers Palkia cannot indefinitely serve as a switch-in to and wall against Kyogre like several other Pokémon, such as Gastrodon, Latias, Arceus-Grass and specially defensive Giratina, I personally believe that, provided one can keep entry hazards off the field, Leftovers Palkia is the most practical Kyogre check in the game, simply because pretty much every other Kyogre check or counter in the game cannot do much against Ferrothorn, one of, if not the most common teammate of Kyogre, and therefore giving Ferrothorn a free layer of entry hazard pretty much every time one switches to their Kyogre check (especially Latias and Arceus-Grass, which both often need to use Recover on the turn immediately after switching into Kyogre, which allows Ferrothorn to freely come in - not that there's much else that could be done otherwise barring a double switch anyway). On the other hand, Leftovers Palkia can easily Fire Blast the opponent's Ferrothorn on the switch as explained in detail before, while also being able to hit Dialga, another very common teammate of Kyogre, hard on the switch with Spacial Rend. Being able to not only switch into the opponent's Kyogre, but also threaten the rest of the opponent's team after that with Palkia's crazy coverage and incredibly powerful moves, while at the same time undergoing at least two rounds of Leftovers recovery is simply awesome. Basically, having a near-uncounterable offensive threat rather than a dedicated defensive wall as one's switch-in to one of the most threatening Pokémon in the game is a huge advantage, as one can easily maintain momentum throughout a match in this way, instead of having it completely lost every time a Kyogre comes in.

I hope that was convincing enough. Also, I prefer Life Orb on Ho-oh as you go overkill with recovery otherwise. You should be able to keep SR off the field a lot of the time, I know that it works so unlike many people, I won't bash it. Therfore use Life Orb to maximize the incredible threat Ho-oh is.

Other than that there's not much I can change, but going more defensive on Groudon, as well as using Dragon Tail will give some valuable chip damage on E-killer, also using that little defense will not make you be able to phaze out E-killer twice per match, which can be very crucial.

Nice team nontheless, I am not a big fan of double scarf, but I might test it and see if it works!

 

[Zam Man]

Hi Jamvad grats on the peak. Nice team :]

 

[JaggedShards]

Way to steal Rok's team

 

[Mrjamvad]

Congratz on the ladder peak! I think I've played against this team before and I like the uniqueness of Arceus-Water. However, the Arceus-Water set with Spacial Rend seem a bit weird, I guess it takes care of Palkia and other Dragons, however I feel Ice beam is superior here because of its ability to OHKO Rayquaza which Spacial Rend fails to do. Also, it still gives you a solid hit on Lati@s, Zekrom and the Giratina-formes without losing PP easily, and lets you hit Lugia for better damage (which still isn't great)

Damage Calculations based on the suggestions

Hide

0 SpAtk Arceus-Water Spacial Rend vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Rayquaza: 52.42% - 62.11% (2 hits to KO)
0 SpAtk Arceus-Water Ice Beam vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Rayquaza: 99.15% - 117.38% (93.75% chance to OHKO)
0 SpAtk Arceus-Water Ice Beam vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Lugia: 26.92% - 31.73% (4 hits to KO) (Assuming MS is broken)

Secondly, Arceus-Rock with WoW seems like a big threat to your team. It can burn your Groudon, Genesect, & Zekrom on switch and render them helpless. I guess you could try to burn it with Ho-oh's Sacred Fire on the switch and get it within range of Genesect's Iron Head or Zekrom's Bolt Strike. To be honest I'm not really sure how to remedy this without replacing a teammate, but I guess you could consider Lum Berry on Groudon to be able to absorb the WoW and strike back hard with Earthquake.

Thanks for the congrats [:, but pertaining your suggestion about icebeam, I prefer using spacial rend to hit the previously mentioned dragons super effectively. Arcues-Water is not on my team to take down rayquaza that is genesects job, and losing the ability to hit those dragons super effectively for the sake of ohkoing rayquaza is not at all worth it. Icebeam won't be doing much to latias,lugia or giratina, so it would be a wasted effort putting it on it seeing as it is not there to deal with those pokemon, by attacking them anyway. I won't be staying in on Zekrom regardless,and spacial rend hits it harder anyway.

I agree wil-o-wisp Arceus-rock can be annoying, but they never pose too much of a problem with proper prediction, and they will generally get burned regardless seeing as they are mainly used in sand and to check ho-oh, so the opponent will switch it in on ho-oh most of the time. Thanks for the rate bud [:

 

[Mrjamvad]

Way to steal Rok's team

You guys are horrible friends. =/

 

[Mrjamvad]

I like this team, as I myself value magic bounce in the Übers tier very much!

Some suggestions, since this is an offensive team, I'd use something else than Waterceus to check Kyogre, like:

Palkia @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump

Palkia keeps your momuntum, while that defensive Waterceus is just breaking it. It hits 10/17 types for SE, so instead of using a a defensive mon to check the king of Übers, you have an unstoppable force (trust me, this dishes out damage). It will bring you momentum, I can assure you.

Below is a post by the friend who invented the set:

Hide

Leftovers Palkia is one of my personal proudest creations among the innumerable trademark Pokémon movesets that I have created during my time as a Pokémon trainer, and I'm also happy to see that I have influenced HackHeMust, Imma Fly and others to use it as well Besides its invaluable 4x resistance to Fire and Water, Palkia's greatest advantage to me is not its 100 base Speed as many people believe, but rather its incredibly awesome offensive coverage, being able to hit 10 out of the 17 Pokémon types super effectively with its four moves listed in the above set, while having perfect neutral coverage at the same time, and being able to abuse both of the Übers tier's dominant weather conditions. As such, rather than taking advantage of its ability to outrun Choice Scarf Genesect and +1 Dragon Dance Rayquaza when equiped with a Choice Scarf, as the vast majority of people seem to choose to do, something that is only greatly promoted by the fact that Choice Scarf is considered to be Palkia's #1 set on Smogon's analysis of this Pokémon, my approach to using Palkia is to simply abuse the fact that it is near-uncounterable given the freedom to switch attacks without being locked into one move by an annoying Choice item, which tends to result in it being easily walled by Pokémon like Ferrothorn. When Palkia does not need to lock itself into one move every time it attacks, it can suddenly, without worry, Fire Blast the opponent's Ferrothorn switch-in right after coming into a Kyogre, something it would be quite hesitant to do if it were holding a Choice Scarf, since having Palkia locked into that move in the rain would be extremely detrimental if its trainer mispredicts. And furthermore, even if a Choice Scarf Palkia successfully predicts a Ferrothorn switch-in and hits it with a Fire Blast, Palkia's trainer on the next turn is then forced to either switch or shoot a second rain-weakened Fire Blast, which could allow the opponent to send out one of the many Pokémon that can easily take that move, such as their Kyogre, and therefore gain momentum. But if Palkia isn't holding a Choice Scarf, then after Fire Blasting the opponent's Ferrothorn on the switch, its trainer can then proceed to predict the opponent switching their Ferrothorn out, and gain a further advantage by hitting yet another Pokémon hard on the switch with one of Palkia's three other moves, including its absurdly powerful rain-boosted Hydro Pump. Generally, what puts me off from the exceedingly popular Choice Scarf Palkia is the sheer ease with which it can be played around with proper prediction and therefore resulting in its trainer losing momentum as they have to switch out and possibly rack up entry hazard damage on their team every time the opponent sends out a Pokémon resistant to the move in which Palkia is locked, and seeing as Ferrothorn walls every move of Choice Scarf Palkia besides Fire Blast, using Choice Scarf Palkia is also an extremely easy way to let Ferrothorn freely set up many layers of entry hazards, or spread annoying status or Leech Seed. Being set-up bait for Extreme Killer Arceus, the best Pokémon in the game when it is locked into any moves besides Hydro Pump in the rain, as well as having no resistance to ExtremeSpeed like the top two Choice Scarf Pokémon in Übers, Terrakion and Genesect, does it no favor either.

Although Lustrous Orb is generally the preferred item for Palkia when people are not thinking of Choice Scarf or Choice Specs, due to its ability to bluff the aforementioned two items, my preference for Leftovers is because my experience tells me that this item allows Palkia to switch into Kyogre, one of the most threatening Pokémon in the game, significantly more times throughout a match, and its ability to serve this purpose becomes much more apparent when Palkia gets burned by Scald. In fact, although even Leftovers Palkia cannot indefinitely serve as a switch-in to and wall against Kyogre like several other Pokémon, such as Gastrodon, Latias, Arceus-Grass and specially defensive Giratina, I personally believe that, provided one can keep entry hazards off the field, Leftovers Palkia is the most practical Kyogre check in the game, simply because pretty much every other Kyogre check or counter in the game cannot do much against Ferrothorn, one of, if not the most common teammate of Kyogre, and therefore giving Ferrothorn a free layer of entry hazard pretty much every time one switches to their Kyogre check (especially Latias and Arceus-Grass, which both often need to use Recover on the turn immediately after switching into Kyogre, which allows Ferrothorn to freely come in - not that there's much else that could be done otherwise barring a double switch anyway). On the other hand, Leftovers Palkia can easily Fire Blast the opponent's Ferrothorn on the switch as explained in detail before, while also being able to hit Dialga, another very common teammate of Kyogre, hard on the switch with Spacial Rend. Being able to not only switch into the opponent's Kyogre, but also threaten the rest of the opponent's team after that with Palkia's crazy coverage and incredibly powerful moves, while at the same time undergoing at least two rounds of Leftovers recovery is simply awesome. Basically, having a near-uncounterable offensive threat rather than a dedicated defensive wall as one's switch-in to one of the most threatening Pokémon in the game is a huge advantage, as one can easily maintain momentum throughout a match in this way, instead of having it completely lost every time a Kyogre comes in.

I hope that was convincing enough. Also, I prefer Life Orb on Ho-oh as you go overkill with recovery otherwise. You should be able to keep SR off the field a lot of the time, I know that it works so unlike many people, I won't bash it. Therfore use Life Orb to maximize the incredible threat Ho-oh is.

Other than that there's not much I can change, but going more defensive on Groudon, as well as using Dragon Tail will give some valuable chip damage on E-killer, also using that little defense will not make you be able to phaze out E-killer twice per match, which can be very crucial.

Nice team nontheless, I am not a big fan of double scarf, but I might test it and see if it works!

Yes Xatu is a monster, but putting palkia on this team really is not necessary as it doesn't really add much, but instead creates many holes. The support that Arceus-water provides goes far beyond being able to switch into kyorge. Palkia would simply allow me to be a bit weaker to set up sweepers as well suppppeerrr weak to kyurem-white.

I prefer the sub ho-oh set to the life orb variant as its dual stabs are so good, and life orb leaves it open to revenge killers; I also do not need that kind of over kill power as i loose a lot of tanking capability, my ho-oh is not a sweeper; it is instead a tank which takes A LOT of pressure of Arceus-Water as i can switch in on scarfed dracos and set up subs when needed, but thanks for the rate [:

 

[Hack]

I think you wouldn't exactly be super weak to Kyurem-W by dropping Waterceus, since Ho-oh can tank its attack, and if it locks into Ice-Beam then you have Genesect to threaten it.

Why I think you should use LO, another quote, note that LO is very much preferred against support Dialga who will be hard to keep from getting those rocks up.

Hide

"Another thing you may have noticed is that I very much prefer Life Orb over Leftovers on Ho-Oh despite the latter's far greater popularity. Since Ho-Oh already has so much healing power in Roost and Regenerator, I have never understood why people would choose to go overkill with recovery by giving it Leftovers, something Lugia is far better suited for anyway, rather than doing the exact opposite: Taking advantage of the very fact that Ho-Oh is a Pokémon with a 50% recovery move and a 33% recovery Ability, by pumping up the power of its attacks to sky-high levels with Life Orb, in exchange for a drawback that is more than mitigated by Roost and Regenerator anyway. With Life Orb, Ho-Oh can take out Latias, Latios and offensive Kyogre in a single Brave Bird, physically defensive Kyogre with two Brave Birds, physically defensive Giratina with three Brave Birds, and take out random Pokémon like Dialga and Arceus after just a bit of prior damage with a Sun-boosted Sacred Fire. As such, I personally believe that Life Orb Ho-Oh is by far the best wall-breaker in the entire game, being able to easily threaten the incredibly effective type of stall teams that use defensive Sleep Talk Kyogre, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel and a Giratina Forme, something a Leftovers Ho-Oh could never accomplish."

 

[Psylink]

Your team is a bit Stealth Rock weak, so I suggest Defensive Espeon. It gets rid of one weakness and still helps the other. I suggest the Dual Screens set. It helps the sweepers tank hits and retaliate. I hope this helps! :D

 

[Magcargo]

I suggest replacing sleep talk with hp fire on zekrom because you have genesect for darkrai. HP fire allows yu to deal massive damage to ferrothorn and sizeable damage to excadrill. It also gets a hefty boost from the sun.

 

[Edgar]

@Hack we must: your suggestions don't even help his team. you're just suggesting random stuff that you would change. I bet you just saw the Pokemon on the team without looking to the explaination. Ho-Oh beats support Dialga in the Sun. I lol'd when I saw Lefties Palkia, I understand the big 6% you gain from Leftovers every turn is crucial. Specs Kyogre would still beat this team when it 2hkos Palkia with Thunder. I think if he wanted to beat Kyogre he would have added a Sp.Defensive Latias with this set:

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 132 SDef / 136 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Light Screen
- Roar
- Recover

This can at least "check" any Kyogre set. But it would make the team weaker to Mixed Dragons. Lustrous Orb/Haban Berry Palkia would wreck the team if it wasn't for Arceus-Water. Kyurem White at some point would too, I'm starting to see people running Stone Edge on Life Orb or Expert Belt just to destroy Ho-Oh on the Switch in. Considering that more than half of the Uber teams are weak to Kyogre I'd rather be weak to it and be able to check it than putting a random Dragon that would make you weak to other 5 pokemon. (Reshiram,Kyurem-W,Palkia,Dialga,Calm Mind Arceus (any type). I would recommend you to keep Arceus on the team.

 

[Hack]

Blackstardust, lay your cocky and arrogant attitude aside, I know perfectly that my suggestions aren't random since I have peaked numerous times using leftovers Palkia. You obviously have no idea how good it is, and that Latias just ruins momentum, which is not what this team is looking for. Can't post more since I'm using my phone lol

 

[Furai]

What really bothers me is how Extreme Killer weak you are. It can setup on Xatu and locked Genesect easily and proceed to wreck every single one of your teammates with its STAB ExtremeSpeed and Earthquake. Ho-Oh dies to ExtremeSpeed after SR. I don't see Genesect's role honestly. You have Zekrom which hits much harder and handles everything that Genesect beats, but Rayquaza. Therefore I recommend changing Genesect to Terrakion, which can handle Extreme Killer among Rayquaza and other Pokemon Genesect used to beat. Here's the set:

Hide

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Toxic / Rock Slide

Toxic if you want to nail CM Arceus, opposing Groudon, and other troublesome Pokemon, and Rock Slide if you don't want to risk a miss.

Dialga remains a problem as Xatu can't block its SR without Light Screen. Maintaing high pressure with Terrakion, Ho-Oh, or Zekrom can avoid SR, but do consider changing to Dual Screens Xatu for that reason. Light Screen also allows you do get another turn of damage on CM Eleceus, which can be proven helpful.

Good Luck!

 

[ZoroDark]

Really cool Mencemeat, there are a few things i'd like to change. First of, Furai's suggestion of Terrakion is actually really cool, so I'd go for that. There's this slight problem you have with SR Dialga, who will usually beat Xatu and set up those dreaded rocks you hate so much. For this reason, I suggest that you use Offensive Rocker Groudon with Earth Plate to beat Dialga. That's about it. COol team and good luck.

 

[Mrjamvad]

Your team is a bit Stealth Rock weak, so I suggest Defensive Espeon. It gets rid of one weakness and still helps the other. I suggest the Dual Screens set. It helps the sweepers tank hits and retaliate. I hope this helps! :D

Well, I have to say your comment was interesting to say the least. I have a **XATU** yeah, yet you say "your team is a bit stealth rock weak". Well firstly, I only have two things weak to SR one being something that prevents them once again **XATU*, so suggesting espeon, a pokemon that can't really too many hits, is not the best idea IMO. I think xatu is superior to espeon, but hey that's just me. Thanks for the rate tho [:

 

[Mrjamvad]

I suggest replacing sleep talk with hp fire on zekrom because you have genesect for darkrai. HP fire allows yu to deal massive damage to ferrothorn and sizeable damage to excadrill. It also gets a hefty boost from the sun.

"because you have genesect for darkrai." Genesect doesn't switch into darkrai. Why would I allow my opponent to put genesect to sleep? And don't say I have xatu because i don't think it is worth risking my xatu by switching it into a potential dark pulse. Also,This is a scarfed zekrom; putting hp fire on it just allows me to lose momentum. I can easily volt switch on ferrothorn into ho-oh or simply hard switch into xatu . In excadrill's case hp fire would not do too much seeing as most are bulky mold breaker sets and i am a minus special attacking nature, but thanks for the rate [:

 

[Mrjamvad]

@Hack we must: your suggestions don't even help his team. you're just suggesting random stuff that you would change. I bet you just saw the Pokemon on the team without looking to the explaination. Ho-Oh beats support Dialga in the Sun. I lol'd when I saw Lefties Palkia, I understand the big 6% you gain from Leftovers every turn is crucial. Specs Kyogre would still beat this team when it 2hkos Palkia with Thunder. I think if he wanted to beat Kyogre he would have added a Sp.Defensive Latias with this set:

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 132 SDef / 136 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Light Screen
- Roar
- Recover

This can at least "check" any Kyogre set. But it would make the team weaker to Mixed Dragons. Lustrous Orb/Haban Berry Palkia would wreck the team if it wasn't for Arceus-Water. Kyurem White at some point would too, I'm starting to see people running Stone Edge on Life Orb or Expert Belt just to destroy Ho-Oh on the Switch in. Considering that more than half of the Uber teams are weak to Kyogre I'd rather be weak to it and be able to check it than putting a random Dragon that would make you weak to other 5 pokemon. (Reshiram,Kyurem-W,Palkia,Dialga,Calm Mind Arceus (any type). I would recommend you to keep Arceus on the team.

Mah boy Yedgar. [: Excellent uber player right here and thanks for aiding with the explanation.

 

[Mrjamvad]

What really bothers me is how Extreme Killer weak you are. It can setup on Xatu and locked Genesect easily and proceed to wreck every single one of your teammates with its STAB ExtremeSpeed and Earthquake. Ho-Oh dies to ExtremeSpeed after SR. I don't see Genesect's role honestly. You have Zekrom which hits much harder and handles everything that Genesect beats, but Rayquaza. Therefore I recommend changing Genesect to Terrakion, which can handle Extreme Killer among Rayquaza and other Pokemon Genesect used to beat. Here's the set:

Hide

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Toxic / Rock Slide

Toxic if you want to nail CM Arceus, opposing Groudon, and other troublesome Pokemon, and Rock Slide if you don't want to risk a miss.

Dialga remains a problem as Xatu can't block its SR without Light Screen. Maintaing high pressure with Terrakion, Ho-Oh, or Zekrom can avoid SR, but do consider changing to Dual Screens Xatu for that reason. Light Screen also allows you do get another turn of damage on CM Eleceus, which can be proven helpful.

Good Luck!

Yo, I see your point on the Extreme Killer, and I do realize I do not have a dedicated counter, but I generally play the match a certain way to the point where if they do have an Extreme Killer my pokemon are healthy enough to deal with it appropriately. It is all a matter of prediction as I have faced plenty extreme killer and i have never once been swept by one. Addressing the Offensive rocks dialga issue, I can generally tell based on how their team is constructed whether it is that set, in which cases I attempt to predict around it; most times I manage to get it right and weaken it to the point where I might lose xatu, but revenge it without it getting rocks up or keep xatu and watch them over predict. It is indeed one of the biggest issues. Terrakion on paper seems to work, but in actual play i feel genesect provides the steel typing, the momentum, the ready check to ohko latias, and a very good check to mewtwo which can be a massive problem if not dealt with quickly. Terrakion would definately aid with offensive dialga, but I would lose the abilty to offensively voltturn which is something this team greatly relies on. Also, I prefer grass knot on xatu because this team is heavily physical, even more so if I added terrakion, which would make defensive groudon the bane of my existence. Grass knot provides I nice way to deal with them while still keeping rocks away and it does quite a bit to offensive kyogres on the switch in. Thanks for the rate Bud [:

 

[Mrjamvad]

Really cool Mencemeat, there are a few things i'd like to change. First of, Furai's suggestion of Terrakion is actually really cool, so I'd go for that. There's this slight problem you have with SR Dialga, who will usually beat Xatu and set up those dreaded rocks you hate so much. For this reason, I suggest that you use Offensive Rocker Groudon with Earth Plate to beat Dialga. That's about it. COol team and good luck.

Thanks Man! I already talked about the reason for not using terrakion above. Using that groudon variant would allow me to lose my Extreme Killer check simply put, so that is definitely not an option, but thanks for the rate bud. [:

 

[Mew72]

This team is too strong to rate.