Peakmons v2.0

[skies]

revamped from valmanway's original thread
approved by eevee general + the immortal

Way back in the day, Sleep Talk was an excellent move because, when in tandem with Rest, it could efficiently restore HP with ease. What do I mean by this, exactly? For those who are old enough to remember, Rest used to work when Sleep Talk called on, healing HP entirely no matter where it was from. Way back in the day, we had Explosion, which lowered the opponent's Defense before actually Exploding. Way back in the day, Hyper Beam was an excellent move because it wouldn't require a turn to recharge when it KOed the opponent. However, Game Freak decided to be incredibly cruel and nerf all of these moves and Pokemon, nerfing them to the point where they were shamed and unable to see the light of day. However, this is no longer! No! This metagame attempts to take all moves from their "peak" and combine them into one large metagame, where everything is able to shine! Unlike the past version of Peakmons, this version will not include stat changes. In return, some new and exciting move changes are added that previously were not. Amnesia, for example, boosts both Speical Attack and Special Defense to incredible levels! To summarize, the best attributes from each generation are selected and placed into one metagame! Here's an entire list of changes:

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• Amnesia will raise both Special Attack and Special Defense by two stages. [Generation One]
• Blizzard is now 90% accuracy and has 120 power again, along with a 30% chance to Freeze. [Generation One]
• Bubble Beam has a 30% chance of lowering the opponent's Speed. [Generation One]
  
• Dig has 100 base power, versus 80. [Generation One]
  
• Double-Edge's recoil is lowered to just 1/4. [Generation One]
  
• Explosion and Self-Destruct will cut the opponent's Defense in half when used. [Generation Two]
  
• Fire Blast has a 30% chance to inflict burn. [Generation One]
  
• Freeze will only thaw if a Fire-type move is used against the frozen Pokemon. [Generation One]
• High Jump Kick drops only 1 HP if the move misses, versus 50%. [Generation One]
• Hyper Beam and its variants no longer recharge if they KO the opponent. [Generation One]
• Leech Seed drains more health if the opponent is also inflicted with Toxic. [Generation One]

• Psychic has a 30% to drop Special Defense and Special Attack. [Generation One]

• Reflect and Light Screen affect only the user, and last until the Pokemon switches out. [Generation One]

• When the first Multi-Hit move is a Critical Hit, all following ones will be as well. [Generation One]

• Aerial Ace and other moves that ignore Evasion are able to hit Pokemon in semi-vulnerable states such as Dig or Fly. [Generation Two]

• Belly Drum raises the user's Attack by two if used when the user has under 50% health. Will not cause any self-inflicted damage. [Generation Two]

• Haze removes any status ailment from all members. [Generation Two]

• If a Pokemon KOes the opponent with a recoil move, the Pokemon will not take any recoil. [Generation Two]

• Metronome is able to call on Counter, Assist, and Feint again. [Generation Two]

• Pokemon are not freeded from Block / Spider Web when using Baton Pass. [Generation Two]

• Roar and Whirlwind only have -1 priority now. [Generation Two]

• Sleep Talk will now use Rest should it call on it. [Generation Two]

• Feint is 50 power once again and has +2 priority. [Generation Four]

• Klutz does not prevent the use of Fling [Generation Three]

• Pressure is not shown as a Pokemon switches in. [Generation Three]

• The number of turns for the moves Disable, Encore, and Taunt are all randomized once again. [Generation Three]

• Anger Point works behind a Substitute. [Generation Four]

• Blizzard and Thunder have a 30% chance to break Protect under Hail and Rain, respectively. [Generation Four]

• Leaf Guard no longer prevents Rest while Sun is active. [Generation Four]

• Pokemon with the ability Magic Guard are unable to be fully paralyzed. [Generation Four]

• Acid Armor, Covet, and Growth have 40 PP. [Generation Five]

• Air Slash, Minimize, and Sacred Sword return to 20 PP. [Generation Five]

• Aura Sphere and Dragon Pulse now have 90 base power again. [Generation Five]

• Barrier, Extrasensory, Swords Dance, and Tailwind have 30 PP. [Generation Five]

• Critical Hits are twice as effective versus 1.5x. [Generation Five]

• Fire Blast, Blizzard, Thunder, and Hurricane have 120 power again. [Generation Five]

• Frost Breath and Storm Throw have 120 power after a Critical Hit. [Generation Five]

• Heat Wave returns to 100 base power. [Generation Five]

• High Jump Kick, Thrash, and Petal Dance have 20 PP. [Generation Five]

• Magma Storm is 120 base power again. [Generation Five]

• Meteor Mash is 100 base power again. [Generation Five]

• Outrage, Future Sight, and Skull Bash have 15 PP. [Generation Five]

• Overheat and its variants return back to 140 baser power. [Generation Five]

• Recover and its variants have 20 PP versus 10. [Generation Five]

• Sky Drop works on everything, regardless of weight. [Generation Five]

• Surf and Muddy Water return to 95 base power. [Generation Five]

• Surf, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt have 95 power again. [Generation Five]

• Weather is now permanent, as it once was. [Generation Five]

A few clauses are in effect to prevent things from going crazy:

• Standard OU Clauses are in effect.
• Freeze Clause: No more than one Pokemon may be frozen at any given point throughout the battle.
• Wrap Clause: Wrap and all of its variants are not allowed because of their ability to render the opponent useless, causing endless frustration.
• Prankster + Shuffling: Due to Roar and its variants only having -1 priority, Prankster boosts them to a neutral priority, allowing them to outspeed everything with Choice Scarf and shuffle the opponent to the death.

Now, let's look at some prominent threats that you can expect from this metagame!

Mega Charizard Y looks like an outstanding threat because Blast Burn, with Drought and 159 Special Attack, is going to dent nearly anything and even some resists! Plus, without a recharge turn, it is incredible late-game because, after the opposing team has been weakened, it's going to be very tough to stop! Mega Venusaur has Amnesia, a nice typing, and great bulk. Giga Drain off a boost is hurting, and will keep Mega Venusaur healthy throughout the match. It'll be very tough to take down without proper coverage. Even Mega Alakazam's Psychic isn't a guaranteed 2HKO after an Amnesia boost! Clefable has a unique combination in Amnesia and Stored Power, only shared with Swoobat. After just two Amnesia boosts, Stored Power is an effective 180 base power move! That's really crazy! Mega Alakazam has nothing to fear now! Dark-types are neutral to Psychic-type moves in this metagame, so Mega Alakzam's Psychic is only resisted by fellow Psychic-types. A demonstration of Mega Alakazam's power: Heatran is 2HKOed by Psychic, due to its neutrality to Psychic. Mega Alakazam is a big threat! Latios is in a similar boat, but also has a 140 base power, nearly entirely unresisted, Draco Meteor that it is free to spam. This is backed up by great Speed, power, and only having to fear Fairy-types. Finally, Kyurem-Black also appreciates this buff to Dragon-types, and now has a much more powerful Ice-type STAB move in Blizzard! Draco Meteor allows it to run an incredible Special Attacking set, and it will have to be accounted for when teambuilding.

Before we go into instantly banning things, I have a question for you all: would you prefer keeping the Psychic- and Dragon-type buffs, or would you prefer them be reverted to normal? This is an interesting debate, and I'm open to both sides of the argument. On one side, we see a great offensive buff, but on the other we have a buff that is potentially too good. Would our problems be solved by banning Mega Alakazam instead? It's really up to you guys, and I'd love to hear your guys' opinions!

Now get out there and play!

 

[The Immortal]

• Steel-types resist Ghost- and Dark-type attacks. [Generation Four]

One could argue the opposite, that Ghost and Dark are currently at their peak because they hit Steel neutrally.

 

[tegrof19]

Psychic should also drop special attack
Haze will also thaw freeze
Little known fact, in gen 2, Belly drum would raise attack by 2 stages if the user is under 50% health, at no cost
Poison and bug super effective against each other?

 

[Iynhe]

Let the blizzardspam begin! And the dragonspam, too. *evil laugh*
One thing that is not completely clear: dragon is neutral aginst fairy, isn't it? So dragon is not resisted by ANYTHING right? I think THIS would be too good. Everyone would have at least a scarfed dragon on their team, so it will come down to the speed tiers. If you make steel and (ugh) fairy resistant to it, it should be ok. About the psychic, i don't know.
Ohhh, another place where rain is good. I'm in pain, i think.

 

[Reisuke]

Let da sub anger point primeape shine!!!!!

But looks pretty cool.

 

[MANNAT]

We should just keep types how they are right now because buffing one type could be interpreted as a nerf to another, and I think that you missed some stuff with priority.

 

[Throbulator36]

Blizzard should have a chance to break protect in hail(DiamondPearl)

 

[Akumeoy]

We should just keep types how they are right now because buffing one type could be interpreted as a nerf to another, and I think that you missed some stuff with priority.

Agreed on the point of typing -- it seems to be slanted towards when that move was the best on the offense, at the expense of weakening types that benefited from changes. This isn't indirect like Grass-types being worse with Mega Charizard Y getting a usable Blast Burn, but where peaking one type by definition comes at the type of de-peaking other types. Further, should powder moves peak by working on Grass-types, or should Grass peak by being immune to powder moves? Same with Electric-types and paralysis.

Additionally, Copycat should be able to call any move that it would have at any point, including negative-priority moves. Reflect and Light Screen are arguably downgraded.

Murkrow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Whirlwind
- Pursuit
- Steel Wing
- Haze / Sucker Punch / Filler

It's like Riolu, but it doesn't require setup. Max-Speed Scarf outspeeds the unboosted meta, Pursuit can let it revenge things that are at very low health and has a chance to 2HKO 252/0 Espeon even without a switch-out (yes, Espeon is relevant, by dint of bouncing back Whirlwind). Steel Wing has a chance to OHKO Mega Diancie. Last move can be utility, or a little insurance against priority.

 

[Rumors]

We should just keep types how they are right now because buffing one type could be interpreted as a nerf to another, and I think that you missed some stuff with priority.

Seconding this, especially because...

-Steel has always resisted Dragon and Psychic and Dragon nor Psychic have never been unresisted by Steel. So, Steel should still resist. You could argue Gen I, but Steel didn't exist in that Gen and if we use the "shouldn't resist because it didn't exist" arguement, then that could open a huge can of worms. ("Charizard should not be weak to Stealth Rock because it was not weak to them in Gens I-III" or "Fairy should have no resistances and not be super-effective against anything because it didn't exist for five generations.")

-Dark has always been Immune to Psychic and Psychic has never been effective against Dark outside of Miracle Eye.

-Fairy has always been immune to Dragon and Dragon has never been effective against Fairy.

You also cherry picked and missed several other type changes.

-Bug and Poison used to be super-effective on each other. (Gen I)

-Fire did not resist Ice. (Gen I)

-Psychic was immune to Ghost (Gen I)

-Bug resisted itself (Gen I)

 

[Ghoul King]

• Psychic has a 30% to drop Special Defense. [Generation One]

Not Special Attack and Special Defense at the same time?

• Roar and Whirlwind only have -1 priority now. [Generation Two]

Those were both Gen I moves and both had neutral priority at the time. Of course, they didn't force-switch at the time, but Peakmons is perfectly fine with nonsense mashups of Best Behavior.

• Leech Seed drains more health if the opponent is also inflicted with Toxic. [Generation One]

Actually, this affected all residual damage, and had to do with the Toxic stepping process: if you were hit with Toxic, survived a few turns, and Toxic was cleared and then you got Burned, the Burn would do the damage you were last taking from Toxic.

• Aerial Ace and other moves that ignore Evasion are able to hit Pokemon in semi-vulnerable states such as Dig or Fly. [Generation Two]

Only applied in Generation I. Arguably should only affect Swift, as it was the only one to exist at the time.

• Anger Point works behind a Substitute. [Generation Three]

Ability introduced in Gen IV, not III.

• Team Preview is turned off. [Generation Four]

??? I thought this was about returning moves, Abilities, and Pokemon to their peak performance? How does removing team preview fit into that agenda?

• Critical Hits are twice as effective versus 1.5x. [Generation Five]

What, we're not returning Critical Hit rates to Gen I as well?

• Wrap Clause: Wrap and all of its variants are not allowed because of their ability to render the opponent useless, causing endless frustration.

Even though this is a clause, the change isn't listed in the list of changes.

---

You're also missing:

-Every Overheat-type move except Psycho Boost was 140 BP prior to Gen VI, they should all be 140 BP again

-Heat Wave was 100 BP prior to Gen VI

-Hidden Power could be upward of 80 BP (Mechanics are complicated, the point can be debated)

-Magma Storm was 120 BP prior to Gen VI

-Meteor Mash was 100 BP prior to Gen VI

-Muddy Water and Surf were 95 BP prior to Gen VI

-Recover and its variants originally had 20 PP, rather than 10, prior to Generation IV

-Same for High Jump Kick, Thrash, and Petal Dance, while Outrage originally had 15

-Future Sight and Skull Bash originally had 15 PP

-Acid Armor, Covet, and Growth had 40 PP

-Air Slash, Minimize, and Sacred Sword had 20 PP

-Barrier, Extrasensory, Swords Dance, and Tailwind had 30 PP

-Prior to Generation III, starting from Stadium, Haze wiped major status ailments from both sides

---

I'm having trouble finding a place with all the cross-generation changes listed. I'm sure there's lots more stuff I'm not finding/remembering.

---

As far as types goes, I'd be OK with returning Steel's resistances to Dark and Ghost, but I don't follow the logic of making the new types have incorrect interactions with existing types, and only in the narrow arbitrary form of Dragon and Psychic laughing maniacally. Why are Fighting, Bug, and Dark having to suffer through Fairy resisting them while Dragon is no longer blocked entirely by them? Why does Ghost have to suffer through Dark resisting it while Psychic doesn't care? Why do more than 10 types have to suffer through Steel resisting them when it didn't originally exist?

I'd rather just not touch types, really.

 

[skies]

Will add the missing changes and address type changings once I am to a computer. Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Illusio]

I just wanted to add one more buff to a move: Struggle.

In Gen 1, Struggle was capable of causing a critical hit and would deal no recoil if it hit a substitute. Also in Stadium, Struggle wouldn't deal any recoil if it knocked out a Pokemon. I would also like to add the buff of 1/2 the damage dealt instead of 25% always, although calling that a "buff" could be debatable.

 

[Electrolyte]

This seems interesting so I will look into it later. Unfortunately I do not have the time now, but just to help everybody out

Moves in Alphabetical Order

• Aerial Ace and other moves that ignore Evasion are able to hit Pokemon in semi-vulnerable states such as Dig or Fly. [Generation Two]
  
• Amnesia will raise both Special Attack and Special Defense by two stages. [Generation One]
• Aura Sphere and Dragon Pulse now have 90 base power again. [Generation Five]
  
• Blizzard is now 90% accuracy and has 120 power again, along with a 30% chance to Freeze. [Generation One]
• Bubble Beam has a 30% chance of lowering the opponent's Speed. [Generation One]
• Dig has 100 base power, versus 80. [Generation One]
  
• Double-Edge's recoil is lowered to just 1/4. [Generation One]
• Explosion and Self-Destruct will cut the opponent's Defense in half when used. [Generation Two]
• Feint is 50 power once again and has +2 priority. [Generation Four]
• Fire Blast has a 30% chance to inflict burn. [Generation One]
• Fire Blast, Blizzard, Thunder, and Hurricane have 120 power again. [Generation Five]
  
• Freeze will only thaw if a Fire-type move is used against the frozen Pokemon. [Generation One]
• Frost Breath and Storm Throw have 120 power after a Critical Hit. [Generation Five]
  
• High Jump Kick drops only 1 HP if the move misses, versus 50%. [Generation One]
  
• Hyper Beam and its variants no longer recharge if they KO the opponent. [Generation One]
• Leech Seed drains more health if the opponent is also inflicted with Toxic. [Generation One]
• Metronome is able to call on Counter, Assist, and Feint again. [Generation Two]
  
• Psychic has a 30% to drop Special Defense. [Generation One]
  
• Reflect and Light Screen affect only the user, and last until the Pokemon switches out. [Generation One]
• Roar and Whirlwind only have -1 priority now. [Generation Two]
• Sky Drop works on everything, regardless of weight. [Generation Five]
  
• Sleep Talk will now use Rest should it call on it. [Generation Two]
• Surf, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt have 95 power again. [Generation Five]

Mechanics in Alphabetical Order

• Anger Point works behind a Substitute. [Generation Three]
  
• Critical Hits are twice as effective versus 1.5x. [Generation Five]
• If a Pokemon KOes the opponent with a recoil move, the Pokemon will not take any recoil. [Generation Two]
  
• Klutz does not prevent the use of Fling [Generation Three]
• Leaf Guard no longer prevents Rest while Sun is active. [Generation Four]
  
• Nearly nothing resists Dragon-type moves, meaning Steel-types no longer resistant. Fairy-types become resistant. [Generation One] (note: neutral now.)
• Pokemon are not freeded from Block / Spider Web when using Baton Pass. [Generation Two]
• Pokemon with the ability Magic Guard are unable to be fully paralyzed. [Generation Four]
• Pressure is not shown as a Pokemon switches in. [Generation Three]
  
• Psychic-type moves are only resisted by other Psychic-types, meaning that Steel- and Dark-types are no longer resistant / immune. [Generation One]
• Steel-types resist Ghost- and Dark-type attacks. [Generation Four]
• Team Preview is turned off. [Generation Four]
  
• The number of turns for the moves Disable, Encore, and Taunt are all randomized once again. [Generation Three]
• Weather is now permanent, as it once was. [Generation Five]
• When the first Multi-Hit move is a Critical Hit, all following ones will be as well. [Generation One]

When adding more entries, add them alphabetically so it's a lot easier to search things up.

 

[Esprite]

I agree with Ghoul King, on the Crits. This is all about OPness, and Ninjask auto-crit ting everything seems to fit the bill.

 

[skies]

Removed all type changes and added mechanics I've missed - thanks Ghoul King and others.

Regarding Gen 1's crit mechanics: I'd rather not. One could argue it nerfs slower Pokemon such as Camerupt, while also buffing others. That mechanic I don't think fits the bill as "peak", but then again, other peaks do conflict. What do you guys think?

E: Also, I alphabetized this list. Hopefully things are easier to find now!

 

[thdhted]

Welp, time to dig up my old rain team due to permaweather. We might want to consider a swift swim/sand rush/ evasion weather reliant abilities again.
Other than that, Heliolisk gets a nice buff thanks to having two good weather based abilities.
My opinion on the dragon/psychic buffs, I feel like it nerfs other types too much, I think that current typing mechanics should stay as they are.

 

[Ghoul King]

You'll want to edit the closing paragraph stuff too, since it talks about stuff like Mega Alakazam having perfect coverage etc when you've reverted type changes.

Re: crit ratio

Critical hit ratio in Gen I was a powerful factor in why a lot of really fast Pokemon were so good. Meanwhile a Pokemon has to be incredibly slow to actually drop below the modern 6.25% chance -32 base Speed is exactly 6.25% critical hit chance, before taking into account that Gen I also had "increased critical hit ratio" moves something like 8.5 times more likely. Only Pokemon with 31 or less base Speed suffer any -Camerupt's 40 Speed gets an increase in critical hit chances- and even then it's by a very small amount, overall, especially since many of the slowest Pokemon are stuff like Shuckle that doesn't even care most of the time.

Quirky side note that's irrelevant to the thread but I never knew until I went looking this stuff up: Critical Hits in Gen I actually had their damage boost based on level, with a level 5 Pokemon getting the modern 50% boost while a level 100 Pokemon got the doubled damage effect.

Additional mechanics

-critical hits ignore the damage drop from Burn in Gen I and Gen II

-Moves with an increased critical hit ratio were approximately 8.5 times more likely to occur than base in Gen I

-In Stadium, Acid, Bubble, Bubble Beam and Aurora Beam have a 33.2% chance of their special effects triggering

-33.2% is Psychic's chance of triggering in Gen I

-Bide could hit Ghost types in Gens I, IV, and V, and up to Gen II you could switch out during the biding phase. Additionally, it could hit targets in the semi-invulnerable phase of their turn. (Transform did this too, until Gen V)

-Counter could effect Ghosts in Gen I. (And had a whole host of weirdness I'm not touching with a ten-foot-pole)

-Disable lasts 4-7 turns in Generations III-IV (It had a worse minimum prior and afterward became a fixed four turns: this is its Peakmons moment)

-Self-Destruct and Explosion do not cause the user to faint if they break a Substitute or if the target was immune in Gen I (I'm unclear if missing prevents fainting)

-Recoil moves do not deal with recoil if they break the target's Substitute in Gen I

-Haze removes all of Focus Energy, Leech Seed, Light Screen, Mist, Reflect, and Confusion in Gen I

-As Growth existed in Generation I, it increased Special by one there. Does... does that mean in Peakmons it should raise Attack, Special Attack, and Special Defense by 1 stage each, 2 for Attack and Special Attack in Sun?

-Hyper Beam also skips recharging if it breaks the target's Substitute in Gen I

-Low Kick has a 30% chance of causing the target to Flinch in Gen I

-Mimic lets the user see the enemy's moves and pick which one they want in Gen I

-If Light Screen And Reflect being personal rather than team-based and having no timer is a Peakmons model, than Mist having the same behavior in Gen I is relevant

-Night Shade, Sonic Boom, Super Fang, and Seismic Toss ignore immunities in Gen I

-Note that all partial trapping moves work (Prevent from acting etc) on targets immune by type in Gen I (Even though they won't do any damage)

-In Gen I Transform can work on a Transformed Pokemon. (I am unaware of whether this is actually different from modern functionality -I don't mess around with Transform myself)

---

I'm aware that the Substitute-related cases can be debated. Thunder Wave ignores Substitutes in Generation I, for instance, but if you run with that you're lowering Substitute's peak, just like the type shenanigans. I'm just listing them so a decision can be made either way.

This completes my pass-through of all the Gen I moves and some Gen I mechanics. Next is Gen II moves!

 

[Akumeoy]

So Kingdra can run a modern Critdra set with base-2x critical hits (3x after Sniper) and 10bp-boosted STABs (Draco Meteor was 140bp before gen 6, Hydro Pump was 120bp before gen 6)?

252+ SpA Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn on a critical hit: 196-231 (55.6 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill on a critical hit: 204-240 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 309-364 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after Stealth Rock)

Factor in permarain and some sticky webs (or BPed speed [and a sub while we're at it, but now I'm getting greedy])... yeah, this should be a fun nuke. I think you need, like, a Fairy-type in the sun to wall this?

252+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges in Sun on a critical hit: 159-187 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[BibarelThump]

What are the feelings about moves in gen 2-3? The elemental punches, crunch, dragon claw were special. Zam can have an ultimate mixed set without the weak power behidn Hidden Power

Also do the hidden powers "peak" as a base 70 move? Or are they base 60 to accommodate tehnician users?

A lot of things can be argued about their "peak" and things that can go both ways when looked at subjectively

 

[Talpr0ne]

What are the feelings about moves in gen 2-3? The elemental punches, crunch, dragon claw were special. Zam can have an ultimate mixed set without the weak power behidn Hidden Power

Also do the hidden powers "peak" as a base 70 move? Or are they base 60 to accommodate tehnician users?

A lot of things can be argued about their "peak" and things that can go both ways when looked at subjectively

This meta is aiming to introduce only changes that can be considered an objective peak, such as an higher base power or accuracy on a move.

Btw Hypnosis was 70% accuracy in Diamond and Pearl.
Screens are also arguably worse now, should be like they currently are in ORAS imo.

 

[Lcass4919]

"Frost Breath and Storm Throw have 120 power after a Critical Hit. [Generation Five]"
kinda redundant to point that out, as this was due to crit mechanics, which were already mentioned, other then that, only the fact that special stat mods arent ALL combined(as all of which were "a peak" in their time (just make it so everything that boosts spc attack boosts spc def and vice versa), and screens are NERFED from that change (id imagine ~3 turns roughly of screens aren't worth it over its usual 8 on the whole team).

and yeah, strongly oppose the dragon/psychic decision. thats like...saying you disliked the experience of gen 7, dispite gen 7 not existing atm. if you get what i'm saying.

 

[Anna says hi]

On the dragon/psychic debate:
"If buffing one move/type/ability/whatever would directly nerf another, then both will be left as they currently are" From the old thread. Keep the type chart as recent as possible.

Minor stuff you missed:

Hypnosis has 70 Accuracy. [Diamond/Pearl]
Explosion and Selfdestruct will not cause the user to faint if the move breaks a substitute. [Generation One]
Moves that deal recoil to the user will not deal recoil to the user if the move breaks the target's substitute. [Generation One]
Recover has 20 base PP. Its variants never did. (Soft-boiled in Generation 1 had 10 base PP)
Moves with an increased crit rate increase the chance of getting a critical hit by 2 stages. [Generation Three]
Frozen Pokemon can be thawed by use of Heal Bell or Aromatherapy by a teammate, or will thaw themselves before using certain moves(e.g. Scald, Sacred Fire). You worded the statement in an unclear way.
If a move with imperfect accuracy is given perfect accuracy through weather conditions/No Guard, it will have a chance to break protect equal to the chance it would have of missing had said weather conditions or no guard not be in place. [Generation Four] Following this:
- Blizzard has a 10% chance to break Protect in hail.
- Hurricane has a 30% chance to break Protect in rain. (Even though Hurricane didn't exist in gen 4, another move with a similar effect, Thunder, did.)
- Moves that are given perfect accuracy by No Guard have a chance to break Protect equal to 100% minus their accuracy.

 

[Lcass4919]

On the dragon/psychic debate:
"If buffing one move/type/ability/whatever would directly nerf another, then both will be left as they currently are" From the old thread. Keep the type chart as recent as possible.

Minor stuff you missed:

Hypnosis has 70 Accuracy. [Diamond/Pearl]
Explosion and Selfdestruct will not cause the user to faint if the move breaks a substitute. [Generation One]
Moves that deal recoil to the user will not deal recoil to the user if the move breaks the target's substitute. [Generation One]
Recover has 20 base PP. Its variants never did. (Soft-boiled in Generation 1 had 10 base PP)
Moves with an increased crit rate increase the chance of getting a critical hit by 2 stages. [Generation Three]
Frozen Pokemon can be thawed by use of Heal Bell or Aromatherapy by a teammate, or will thaw themselves before using certain moves(e.g. Scald, Sacred Fire). You worded the statement in an unclear way.
If a move with imperfect accuracy is given perfect accuracy through weather conditions/No Guard, it will have a chance to break protect equal to the chance it would have of missing had said weather conditions or no guard not be in place. [Generation Four] Following this:
- Blizzard has a 10% chance to break Protect in hail.
- Hurricane has a 30% chance to break Protect in rain. (Even though Hurricane didn't exist in gen 4, another move with a similar effect, Thunder, did.)
- Moves that are given perfect accuracy by No Guard have a chance to break Protect equal to 100% minus their accuracy.

theres some inconsistancies i noticed.
"- Hurricane has a 30% chance to break Protect in rain. (Even though Hurricane didn't exist in gen 4, another move with a similar effect, Thunder, did.)"
and
Recover has 20 base PP. Its variants never did.

imo, "if it never happened, it never happens." this way, you can have a precedent on everything (like, say, dragon hitting steel/fairy neutrally, since that never happnened to begin with) or something more controversial like work up raising spc def on top of attack, vs making it gen 1 exclusive that moves like amnesia raise/lower both special stats.(which it should be imo)

 

[dhelmise]

I thought Steel-types were immune to Ghost-types in Gen 4?

Regardless, this meta looks cool, glad you revamped it unfixable.

 

[Tymano]

Steel-types were never immune to ghost types, not in gen four, not ever.

Also, Mega-Glalie has STAB Giga Impact and Explosion that it can use to great effect.