In which past gen do you want to remove scarf ditto?
Format Discussion Past Gens Random Battle Sets
- Thread starter A Cake Wearing A Hat
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yeah but then... dont copy a spore mon you are a scarf ditto
That leads into risk and lose more mons, since u switching means 2 turns wasted
I still don't know which gen you want to remove scarf from ditto in. All of them?
I mean at this point is this a legit question? lmao
I just noticed than in Gen 3 Random Battles, Wobbuffet has Leftovers as the item. Unless there is something to enforce that Wobbuffet never gets to fight Wobbuffet, this might allow endless battles, so I think the item should be removed from Wobba (and maybe rise its level to compensate).
there's measures for that
Hello! I'd like to encourage the removal of sleep-inducing moves from BW Randbats (Dark Void, Spore, Sleep Powder, etc.). As many are surely aware, sleep turns reset back to 0 in BW once a Pokémon switches or is forced out. This creates a deeply imbalanced mechanic for a team that has a sleep-inducing move at their disposal. I've played a considerable amount of BW Randbats, and I've found this mechanic to be unhealthy in the metagame time and time again. Even when you have the good fortune of having a type-resistant Sleep Talker or a Lum Berry holder on your team, you still are faced with the encumbrance of avoiding a double switch trap or burning your Lum Berry and absorbing sleep thereafter.
In my mind, there are plenty of ways for Pokémon like Breloom, Darkrai, Amoonguss, and others to be viable without the possibility of sleep-inducing moves. We've seen OU ban such moves in BW, and that tiering decision helped remedy some issues with the metagame at the time. BW Randbats is a wonderful tier, but this change would improve it significantly.
In my mind, there are plenty of ways for Pokémon like Breloom, Darkrai, Amoonguss, and others to be viable without the possibility of sleep-inducing moves. We've seen OU ban such moves in BW, and that tiering decision helped remedy some issues with the metagame at the time. BW Randbats is a wonderful tier, but this change would improve it significantly.
I want to remove ice beam from luvdisc in gen 7 random battles.
Luvdisc's role in gen 7 is primarily to enter the field, outspeed the opponent using its extremely high 251 speed, and use either scald or toxic to attempt to spread status. Even at level 100, luvdisc only reaches 137 special attack, and needless to say this is not enough to break anything purely off of the power of your attacks. because of this, luvdisc's successes generally involve clicking toxic and then stalling out the opponent. Substitute is so crucial because luvdisc happens to be the perfect abuser. with it's speed, you can outspeed almost everything, and after applying toxic you can simply alternate between substitute/protect while losing only 12.5% each turn after leftovers healing. Ice beam always replaces substitute, so you can still stall with protect, but because you can't reliably click protect multiple times in a row, you will take hits you would not need to take with substitute - something so important to a pokemon with the well below average bulk of 248 HP/167 Def/187 SpD
tl;dr luvdisc is a toxic staller and needs substitute to effectively fulfill it's role, and ice beam is not powerful enough to replace substitute
Luvdisc's role in gen 7 is primarily to enter the field, outspeed the opponent using its extremely high 251 speed, and use either scald or toxic to attempt to spread status. Even at level 100, luvdisc only reaches 137 special attack, and needless to say this is not enough to break anything purely off of the power of your attacks. because of this, luvdisc's successes generally involve clicking toxic and then stalling out the opponent. Substitute is so crucial because luvdisc happens to be the perfect abuser. with it's speed, you can outspeed almost everything, and after applying toxic you can simply alternate between substitute/protect while losing only 12.5% each turn after leftovers healing. Ice beam always replaces substitute, so you can still stall with protect, but because you can't reliably click protect multiple times in a row, you will take hits you would not need to take with substitute - something so important to a pokemon with the well below average bulk of 248 HP/167 Def/187 SpD
tl;dr luvdisc is a toxic staller and needs substitute to effectively fulfill it's role, and ice beam is not powerful enough to replace substitute
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Im p
sure its some set with 3 attacks and a spinner and a magic bounce in the team so its not ackchualy 0% but really low odds :thinking:
sure its some set with 3 attacks and a spinner and a magic bounce in the team so its not ackchualy 0% but really low odds :thinking:
In Gen 8, some pokemon have a very small chance to completely bug out and give you a garbage moveset due to how the move generation system works. Emolga will get Life Orb in cases where it bugs out like that and the team also already has removal. The odds of these events happening at the same time are easily under 1%
U got a rarer version of a shiny in retrospective
Gm, would like to suggest a set change for Gen 3 rands.
Rock Blast should be an option on the 3 relevant Pokémon that learn it (Armaldo, Golem, and Rhydon, since Corsola doesn't want a Rock-Type move anyway). It's 25BP in this gen meaning its average power is the same as Rock Slide, but it's multi-hit to break the common Substitutes in the format, and has a higher potential base power. Of course it will sometimes only hit twice, but the Pokémon here value the potential to wallbreak more than the consistently pretty low power of Rock Slide. Particularly Armaldo, who's strongest attack is currently non-STAB Double Edge. In ADV OU Armaldo always runs Rock Blast for this reason so we should copy that, but idm Rock Slide remaining as an option too, and while being good in teambuilt doesn't mean it would be good in rands I don't see a difference in climate between the formats that would make Rock Blast worse in rands at all.
Could introduce an incompatibility with Rock Slide and add it verbatim to these mons' sets, or could cater it more like having Rock Blast on Band sets but retaining Rock Slide on Swords Dance sets (would require set splitting for some mons). Rock Blast is particularly important on Band sets because these slow rock mons' jobs is to wallbreak, it's a tad less important on Golem / Rhydon because they have Earthquake, but Rock Blast giving them the possibility to pummel ground resists or immunes on switch-in are something these sets will value.
These mons tend to be somewhat weak atm and relying on Rock Slide results in a bunch of common switch-ins that are usually 3HKOed, even a fourth hit turns it into a chunk of damage and easy 2HKO territory, so even though there's the element of gambling, making these switch-ins less safe will benefit them greatly.
Below are some example calcs. Golem and Rhydon's only include resistances or immunities to Earthquake since they rarely click their Rock-Type attack anyway, since Earthquake is essentially a 4-hit Rock Blast. Armaldo has more general calcs, as Rock Blast would become the move it clicks the most instead of Double-Edge in most battles. Given how slow these mons are, some of these damage calcs also include OHKOing mons who otherwise get 2HKOed by Rock Slide; oftentimes Rock Slide barely misses OHKOs on super effective hits (as you can see below). Rock Blast having the potential to get these OHKOs is significant and means these mons can't, for example, switch in to revenge kill these slow mons safely any more.
Due to the way calcs currently are, where common switch-ins are right below the threat of getting 2HKOed, you only need slightly above average luck to 2HKO mons, since you need 7 Rock Blast hits total to 2HKO these mons. Using Rock Slide twice is hard capped at 6 hits, making these mons underwhelming in practice. So please either replace Rock Slide with Rock Blast, or make it a 50/50 or something.
Rock Blast should be an option on the 3 relevant Pokémon that learn it (Armaldo, Golem, and Rhydon, since Corsola doesn't want a Rock-Type move anyway). It's 25BP in this gen meaning its average power is the same as Rock Slide, but it's multi-hit to break the common Substitutes in the format, and has a higher potential base power. Of course it will sometimes only hit twice, but the Pokémon here value the potential to wallbreak more than the consistently pretty low power of Rock Slide. Particularly Armaldo, who's strongest attack is currently non-STAB Double Edge. In ADV OU Armaldo always runs Rock Blast for this reason so we should copy that, but idm Rock Slide remaining as an option too, and while being good in teambuilt doesn't mean it would be good in rands I don't see a difference in climate between the formats that would make Rock Blast worse in rands at all.
Could introduce an incompatibility with Rock Slide and add it verbatim to these mons' sets, or could cater it more like having Rock Blast on Band sets but retaining Rock Slide on Swords Dance sets (would require set splitting for some mons). Rock Blast is particularly important on Band sets because these slow rock mons' jobs is to wallbreak, it's a tad less important on Golem / Rhydon because they have Earthquake, but Rock Blast giving them the possibility to pummel ground resists or immunes on switch-in are something these sets will value.
These mons tend to be somewhat weak atm and relying on Rock Slide results in a bunch of common switch-ins that are usually 3HKOed, even a fourth hit turns it into a chunk of damage and easy 2HKO territory, so even though there's the element of gambling, making these switch-ins less safe will benefit them greatly.
Below are some example calcs. Golem and Rhydon's only include resistances or immunities to Earthquake since they rarely click their Rock-Type attack anyway, since Earthquake is essentially a 4-hit Rock Blast. Armaldo has more general calcs, as Rock Blast would become the move it clicks the most instead of Double-Edge in most battles. Given how slow these mons are, some of these damage calcs also include OHKOing mons who otherwise get 2HKOed by Rock Slide; oftentimes Rock Slide barely misses OHKOs on super effective hits (as you can see below). Rock Blast having the potential to get these OHKOs is significant and means these mons can't, for example, switch in to revenge kill these slow mons safely any more.
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blastoise: 122-144 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blastoise: 164-196 (62.1 - 74.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 98 84 HP / 84 Def Corsola: 117-138 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 98 84 HP / 84 Def Corsola: 160-192 (60.1 - 72.1%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 84 84 HP 30 IVs / 84 Def 30 IVs Gligar: 115-136 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 84 84 HP 30 IVs / 84 Def 30 IVs Gligar: 156-184 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Arcanine: 200-236 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Arcanine: 272-320 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blastoise: 164-196 (62.1 - 74.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 98 84 HP / 84 Def Corsola: 117-138 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 98 84 HP / 84 Def Corsola: 160-192 (60.1 - 72.1%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 84 84 HP 30 IVs / 84 Def 30 IVs Gligar: 115-136 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 84 84 HP 30 IVs / 84 Def 30 IVs Gligar: 156-184 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Arcanine: 200-236 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Arcanine: 272-320 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 107-127 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Hidden Power Bug vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 134-158 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 144-172 (52.3 - 62.5%) -- approx. 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Exeggutor: 124-147 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Exeggutor: 172-204 (58.7 - 69.6%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 96 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Parasect: 229-270 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 96 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Parasect: 312-368 (115.1 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Hidden Power Bug vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 134-158 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 144-172 (52.3 - 62.5%) -- approx. 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Exeggutor: 124-147 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Exeggutor: 172-204 (58.7 - 69.6%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 96 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Parasect: 229-270 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 96 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Parasect: 312-368 (115.1 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 93 84 HP / 84 Def Bellossom: 127-150 (43.7 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 93 84 HP / 84 Def Bellossom: 172-204 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 67 84 HP / 84 Def Latias: 166-196 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 67 84 HP / 84 Def Latias: 224-268 (102.2 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Misdreavus: 176-208 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Misdreavus: 236-280 (97.9 - 116.1%) -- approx. 81.3% chance to OHKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 93 84 HP / 84 Def Bellossom: 172-204 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 67 84 HP / 84 Def Latias: 166-196 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 67 84 HP / 84 Def Latias: 224-268 (102.2 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Misdreavus: 176-208 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Misdreavus: 236-280 (97.9 - 116.1%) -- approx. 81.3% chance to OHKO
Due to the way calcs currently are, where common switch-ins are right below the threat of getting 2HKOed, you only need slightly above average luck to 2HKO mons, since you need 7 Rock Blast hits total to 2HKO these mons. Using Rock Slide twice is hard capped at 6 hits, making these mons underwhelming in practice. So please either replace Rock Slide with Rock Blast, or make it a 50/50 or something.
I don’t like this because Rock Blast is only 80% accurate in gen 3 and that blows. I also find that Rock Slide is the main move I click on band sets (because it has no immunities unlike EQ, and on armaldo it’s less widely resisted that hp bug) so making it worse on average, I’m not sure about, even though hitting through sub is valuable. Then there's also the flinch chance on Rock Slide which is very useful against slower (paralysed) enemies.Gm, would like to suggest a set change for Gen 3 rands.
Rock Blast should be an option on the 3 relevant Pokémon that learn it (Armaldo, Golem, and Rhydon, since Corsola doesn't want a Rock-Type move anyway). It's 25BP in this gen meaning its average power is the same as Rock Slide, but it's multi-hit to break the common Substitutes in the format, and has a higher potential base power. Of course it will sometimes only hit twice, but the Pokémon here value the potential to wallbreak more than the consistently pretty low power of Rock Slide. Particularly Armaldo, who's strongest attack is currently non-STAB Double Edge. In ADV OU Armaldo always runs Rock Blast for this reason so we should copy that, but idm Rock Slide remaining as an option too, and while being good in teambuilt doesn't mean it would be good in rands I don't see a difference in climate between the formats that would make Rock Blast worse in rands at all.
Could introduce an incompatibility with Rock Slide and add it verbatim to these mons' sets, or could cater it more like having Rock Blast on Band sets but retaining Rock Slide on Swords Dance sets (would require set splitting for some mons). Rock Blast is particularly important on Band sets because these slow rock mons' jobs is to wallbreak, it's a tad less important on Golem / Rhydon because they have Earthquake, but Rock Blast giving them the possibility to pummel ground resists or immunes on switch-in are something these sets will value.
These mons tend to be somewhat weak atm and relying on Rock Slide results in a bunch of common switch-ins that are usually 3HKOed, even a fourth hit turns it into a chunk of damage and easy 2HKO territory, so even though there's the element of gambling, making these switch-ins less safe will benefit them greatly.
Below are some example calcs. Golem and Rhydon's only include resistances or immunities to Earthquake since they rarely click their Rock-Type attack anyway, since Earthquake is essentially a 4-hit Rock Blast. Armaldo has more general calcs, as Rock Blast would become the move it clicks the most instead of Double-Edge in most battles. Given how slow these mons are, some of these damage calcs also include OHKOing mons who otherwise get 2HKOed by Rock Slide; oftentimes Rock Slide barely misses OHKOs on super effective hits (as you can see below). Rock Blast having the potential to get these OHKOs is significant and means these mons can't, for example, switch in to revenge kill these slow mons safely any more.
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blastoise: 122-144 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blastoise: 164-196 (62.1 - 74.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 98 84 HP / 84 Def Corsola: 117-138 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 98 84 HP / 84 Def Corsola: 160-192 (60.1 - 72.1%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 84 84 HP 30 IVs / 84 Def 30 IVs Gligar: 115-136 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 84 84 HP 30 IVs / 84 Def 30 IVs Gligar: 156-184 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Arcanine: 200-236 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Arcanine: 272-320 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKOLvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 107-127 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Hidden Power Bug vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 134-158 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 144-172 (52.3 - 62.5%) -- approx. 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Exeggutor: 124-147 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Exeggutor: 172-204 (58.7 - 69.6%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 96 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Parasect: 229-270 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 96 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Parasect: 312-368 (115.1 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKOLvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 93 84 HP / 84 Def Bellossom: 127-150 (43.7 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 93 84 HP / 84 Def Bellossom: 172-204 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 67 84 HP / 84 Def Latias: 166-196 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 67 84 HP / 84 Def Latias: 224-268 (102.2 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Misdreavus: 176-208 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Misdreavus: 236-280 (97.9 - 116.1%) -- approx. 81.3% chance to OHKO
Due to the way calcs currently are, where common switch-ins are right below the threat of getting 2HKOed, you only need slightly above average luck to 2HKO mons, since you need 7 Rock Blast hits total to 2HKO these mons. Using Rock Slide twice is hard capped at 6 hits, making these mons underwhelming in practice. So please either replace Rock Slide with Rock Blast, or make it a 50/50 or something.
That’s just me though, it looks like your suggestion has support so it may happen regardless
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No, it actually basically never runs it since the consistency and accuracy of slide is way more important, and slide is strong enough for everything Armaldo wants to do. That said it's probably fine in randbats since the extra power can be appreciated in a less optimized format.
As Colt already pointed out, its not run in OU when used, but the context where substitutes are fairly common in ADV randbats makes it a good idea.Gm, would like to suggest a set change for Gen 3 rands.
Rock Blast should be an option on the 3 relevant Pokémon that learn it (Armaldo, Golem, and Rhydon, since Corsola doesn't want a Rock-Type move anyway). It's 25BP in this gen meaning its average power is the same as Rock Slide, but it's multi-hit to break the common Substitutes in the format, and has a higher potential base power. Of course it will sometimes only hit twice, but the Pokémon here value the potential to wallbreak more than the consistently pretty low power of Rock Slide. Particularly Armaldo, who's strongest attack is currently non-STAB Double Edge. In ADV OU Armaldo always runs Rock Blast for this reason so we should copy that, but idm Rock Slide remaining as an option too, and while being good in teambuilt doesn't mean it would be good in rands I don't see a difference in climate between the formats that would make Rock Blast worse in rands at all.
Could introduce an incompatibility with Rock Slide and add it verbatim to these mons' sets, or could cater it more like having Rock Blast on Band sets but retaining Rock Slide on Swords Dance sets (would require set splitting for some mons). Rock Blast is particularly important on Band sets because these slow rock mons' jobs is to wallbreak, it's a tad less important on Golem / Rhydon because they have Earthquake, but Rock Blast giving them the possibility to pummel ground resists or immunes on switch-in are something these sets will value.
These mons tend to be somewhat weak atm and relying on Rock Slide results in a bunch of common switch-ins that are usually 3HKOed, even a fourth hit turns it into a chunk of damage and easy 2HKO territory, so even though there's the element of gambling, making these switch-ins less safe will benefit them greatly.
Below are some example calcs. Golem and Rhydon's only include resistances or immunities to Earthquake since they rarely click their Rock-Type attack anyway, since Earthquake is essentially a 4-hit Rock Blast. Armaldo has more general calcs, as Rock Blast would become the move it clicks the most instead of Double-Edge in most battles. Given how slow these mons are, some of these damage calcs also include OHKOing mons who otherwise get 2HKOed by Rock Slide; oftentimes Rock Slide barely misses OHKOs on super effective hits (as you can see below). Rock Blast having the potential to get these OHKOs is significant and means these mons can't, for example, switch in to revenge kill these slow mons safely any more.
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blastoise: 122-144 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Blastoise: 164-196 (62.1 - 74.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 98 84 HP / 84 Def Corsola: 117-138 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 98 84 HP / 84 Def Corsola: 160-192 (60.1 - 72.1%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 84 84 HP 30 IVs / 84 Def 30 IVs Gligar: 115-136 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 84 84 HP 30 IVs / 84 Def 30 IVs Gligar: 156-184 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Arcanine: 200-236 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 Lvl 83 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Armaldo Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Arcanine: 272-320 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKOLvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 107-127 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Hidden Power Bug vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 134-158 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def Meganium: 144-172 (52.3 - 62.5%) -- approx. 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Exeggutor: 124-147 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 83 84 HP / 84 Def Exeggutor: 172-204 (58.7 - 69.6%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Slide vs. Lvl 96 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Parasect: 229-270 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 84 84 Atk 30 IVs Choice Band Golem Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 96 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Parasect: 312-368 (115.1 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKOLvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 93 84 HP / 84 Def Bellossom: 127-150 (43.7 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 93 84 HP / 84 Def Bellossom: 172-204 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 67 84 HP / 84 Def Latias: 166-196 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 67 84 HP / 84 Def Latias: 224-268 (102.2 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Misdreavus: 176-208 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lvl 83 84 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. Lvl 85 84 HP / 84 Def 30 IVs Misdreavus: 236-280 (97.9 - 116.1%) -- approx. 81.3% chance to OHKO
Due to the way calcs currently are, where common switch-ins are right below the threat of getting 2HKOed, you only need slightly above average luck to 2HKO mons, since you need 7 Rock Blast hits total to 2HKO these mons. Using Rock Slide twice is hard capped at 6 hits, making these mons underwhelming in practice. So please either replace Rock Slide with Rock Blast, or make it a 50/50 or something.