Pandora vs. last.fm -- what's the good and the bad of both?

[Surgo]

Or are there others out there that are better?

I haven't listened to much music in a long time (my collection hasn't expanded since 2006), but now that I sit in front of a computer all day at work it has become important and very helpful.

I remember Pandora from when I worked at NASA because everybody always had it on all day (I don't think last.fm existed back then), so I recently started using it and it's pretty neat -- it's introduced me to a lot of music I had no idea existed just by entering in the few artist names I know and like. There are two things that get me though:
* Only 6 skips per day, I think.
* The subscription service is $36/year -- I wouldn't mind paying $3/month, but it's a one-time yearly charge instead of a monthly charge so I really can't deal with that. Plus that doesn't get rid of the skip/day limit.

So yeah, if you've used them, what are the pros and cons of both? Algorithmically, feature-wise, etc.?

 

[Zoro]

Pandora is US-only afaik which is definitely a con... thats the reason I cant use it, so its last.fm for me

 

[Surgo]

Well, a con that doesn't really apply to me -- I'll be in the US for at least another four years :P

So, can you talk about the last.fm features like how many times you can skip, how decent the algorithm is, and what not?

 

[symphonyx64]

A recent con of Pandora: You are limited to only 40 hours of listening per month, unless you step up to the subscription service.

Nonetheless, I don't see myself ever going to another website. I can listen to Pandora from my cell phone and my recent stations, bookmarks, etc. stay in sync. Plus, Pandora has a great interface and its simplicity is unmatched.

 

[Pidge]

www.grooveshark.com

You can sign-up, allowing you to save songs to your library, and make playlists. It has a radio feature too, although sometimes I think it gets kind of off from whatever you were originally listening to.

 

[Accent]

If you want to listen to music online, there's Deezer and Jiwa which are legal streaming sites (the artists are paid thanks to the ads). I don't use Jiwa a lot but I know Deezer has a very nice interface and lets you save all your favourite artists/albums/playlists/searches, and has radios based on either your general tastes, similarity with one specific artist you choose, or a theme (70's, current UK top 10, Funk etc).

I know Spotify offers a similar service but I never tested it because it requires you to download and install a software and I never felt the need to get more features than what Deezer offers (and I'm not even sure there are more features).

Actually Deezer, Spotify and Grooveshark which I just discovered thanks to Pidge look really similar, it makes me wonder if they use the same algorithm or something.

edit: ok I tested Grooveshark a bit and it's a shame because the interface is really nice, but apparently there aren't as many songs as on Deezer - now this wouldn't be a problem considering you can upload music it seems, but I still couldn't manage to find some songs I wanted to hear AND on the other hand when looking for some other songs I ended up with tens of different versions (ie I found 'My Delirium', 'My Delerium', 'my dellirium', 'My deilrium' etc. - and then one version for each album it's on too, even compilations).

 

[cantab]

Last.fm you can skip tracks as many times as you like. And you can listen to as much music as you like. And you don't have to pay a penny. I've never heard of Pandora before, but it sounds like an inferior service for a greater price.

Other last.fm features :
* Audioscrobbling - your desktop media player can send listening info to last.fm, which allows it to provide similar tracks. Some portable devices can also collect usage data and upload it when you connect them to your PC.
* Listen to streams through the web page, through last.fm's own software, or through other desktop media players.
* Listen to 'Reccomendations' based on your previous listening
* Listen to music 'similar to' other music
* Listen by 'tag'. This tends to be the best option for genres, but works for other tags, like decades.
* If you specify songs or artists you can normally only listen to 30 second samples, though there are some full tracks.
* A track is only recorded as 'listened to' if you listen to more than half of it. So all the stuff you skip doesn't get counted.
* Has 'love' and 'ban' options to give opinions on specific tracks. I almost never use them mind.
* Play your own library. Useful if you don't have your collection with you.
* Facebook apps (more than one I think).
* Some songs available for free mp3 download.
* You can listen to music without being logged in or registered at all, although you won't get it based on your listening history that way. This lets you safely use it on an untrusted computer, and can sometimes work better for hearing different stuff to your normal listening.

I'm not really sure how 'good' or 'bad' the similarity algorithm is. I think it's based on what people listen to. So if a lot of people listen to artist A and artist B, then when you listen to artist A, recommended is likely to turn up artist B.

 

[Surgo]

Thanks, cantab (and others). The skipping as much as I like is a pretty good feature. I don't really care much about uploading listening history because it's pretty static, but it sounds like a decent radio "put this in and play other things like it" sort of deal too.

I've never heard of Pandora before, but it sounds like an inferior service for a greater price.

I don't really think that's fair, because from what I understand it's not a level playing field. Being based in the US just screws Pandora because the copyright laws, royalty laws, etc., are completely ridiculous. Pretty much all of the limitations were imposed as part of the royalty deal.

 

[cantab]

Just checked on Wikipedia - last.fm is only free in the USA, the UK, and Germany. Elsewhere the subscription is €3/month after a 30 day trial.

Last.fm is currently owned by US company CBS Interactive. But it remains UK based, and the T&C's are governed by the laws of England. You may be right that such a service could not have happened in the USA.

Of course, since last.fm is free, the best way to evaluate it is to test it yourself.

(EDIT: I didn't actually know until I just checked that last.fm was not US-based.)

 

[Surgo]

I just want to roll back in after trying both somewhat extensively and document what happened.

In my experience so far, Pandora punches last.fm in the gut and steals its lunch money.

Pandora has, by far, a better algorithm. Good example: I like the Fallout 3 soundtrack and want to listen to stuff like it. If I go to last.fm and put that in, if it was any good it would notice that nothing on that soundtrack was made since at least 1960 and thus not play anything made in the last fifty years. But instead it only plays shit made in the last 50 years. Pandora, on the other hand, just works except for its only downside in that its music library is somewhat smaller than last.fm's.

Last.fm also has a completely obtuse user interface. There's nothing like Pandora's simple "create a radio" and "seed this radio with..." options. In fact, last.fm doesn't appear have this concept of user-made radio stations at all, which is pretty strange given how it doesn't seem to let me play what I fucking want specifically.

Am I mistaken, and there is some way to do what I desire buried deep within the levels of obtuseness that is last.fm's horrible UI design? Is there a way to get the algorithm to not suck? Does life mean anything? I don't know, but that has been my experience.

 

[symphonyx64]

I just want to roll back in after trying both somewhat extensively and document what happened.

In my experience so far, Pandora punches last.fm in the gut and steals its lunch money.

Pandora has, by far, a better algorithm. Good example: I like the Fallout 3 soundtrack and want to listen to stuff like it. If I go to last.fm and put that in, if it was any good it would notice that nothing on that soundtrack was made since at least 1960 and thus not play anything made in the last fifty years. But instead it only plays shit made in the last 50 years. Pandora, on the other hand, just works except for its only downside in that its music library is somewhat smaller than last.fm's.

Last.fm also has a completely obtuse user interface. There's nothing like Pandora's simple "create a radio" and "seed this radio with..." options. In fact, last.fm doesn't appear have this concept of user-made radio stations at all, which is pretty strange given how it doesn't seem to let me play what I fucking want specifically.

Am I mistaken, and there is some way to do what I desire buried deep within the levels of obtuseness that is last.fm's horrible UI design? Is there a way to get the algorithm to not suck? Does life mean anything? I don't know, but that has been my experience.

Amen.

 

[Firestorm]

I just want to roll back in after trying both somewhat extensively and document what happened.

In my experience so far, Pandora punches last.fm in the gut and steals its lunch money.

Pandora has, by far, a better algorithm. Good example: I like the Fallout 3 soundtrack and want to listen to stuff like it. If I go to last.fm and put that in, if it was any good it would notice that nothing on that soundtrack was made since at least 1960 and thus not play anything made in the last fifty years. But instead it only plays shit made in the last 50 years. Pandora, on the other hand, just works except for its only downside in that its music library is somewhat smaller than last.fm's.

Last.fm also has a completely obtuse user interface. There's nothing like Pandora's simple "create a radio" and "seed this radio with..." options. In fact, last.fm doesn't appear have this concept of user-made radio stations at all, which is pretty strange given how it doesn't seem to let me play what I fucking want specifically.

Am I mistaken, and there is some way to do what I desire buried deep within the levels of obtuseness that is last.fm's horrible UI design? Is there a way to get the algorithm to not suck? Does life mean anything? I don't know, but that has been my experience.

I believe last.fm works using two things:
- tags (so what songs are tagged with the tag you entered, or what tags are shared between your entered artist / song and others)
- what users who also liked this liked

I'm not too sure how Pandora does it as it is blocked outside the US.