OU TOXIC STALL-An attempt at variation by The Fury AKA iKitsune

[iKitsune]

OU TOXIC STALL


"AN ATTEMPT AT VARIATION"


Stall teams are a well tread path so when i made this team i knew i wanted to include unorthodox elements through my choice in pokemon however i also needed to include some standards from those super succesful stall teams to achieve my goals.

I have always been drawn to the play style of stall as a noob i hated the fact that it always destroyed my various efforts. As i grew to play i relished my victories over stall. I then read obi's legendary thread and was captivated by the way that his team systematically handled and dismantled every offensive threat with ease. I was then treated to the delights of Panamaxis's legendary stall team with the ingenious Cradily. And recently I was once again drawn to the new stall of improperfraction where i learned the name imperfectluck and the giddy heights he has taken his teams (i living in england wish to watch him play but the time difference renders this difficult to say the least). However there were obviously a large amount of problems with this team improperfraction's teams namely a huge weakness to DD/Mix Salamence a pokemon that cannot be ignored in any context. I decided to set about making my own stall team one that could deal with the most dangerous threats the metagame had to offer and most importantly a team that would win.

There are three aims to this team.

AIM 1:To Toxic Stall

AIM:2 To Counter/Deal with the following threats :

Physical

Salamence
Gyarados
Tyranitar
Kingdra
Lucario
Metagross
Scizor
Infernape
Flygon
Rhyperior
Breloom
Machamp
Mamoswine
Heracross
Swampert
Hippowdon

Mixed

Salamence
Infernape
Tyranitar

Special

This is slightly different as most special attackers who are not walled by blissey either have the move explosion or are Calm Minders. So these are the threats other than everything that is not walled by blissey.

Mismagius
Jirachi
Suicune
Cresselia

Heatran
Azelf
Gengar

Now I had this list I noticed that any stall team that could not counter the majority of these was unlikely to succeed.

AIM 3: To have support moves

This includes
Stealth Rock
Phazing move
Heal Bell
Toxic Spikes
etc.

I decided not to include spikes or a weather inducer on my team as in this way i felt i could cover more threats and in doing so cover more of the threats.


Finally, with the introduction out of the way onto the team.

Team at a glance:

(Rotom-W)

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Metagross @ Occa Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/242 Atk/16 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
Bullet Punch
Earthquake
Meteor Mash
Stealth Rock

Description

Metagross is a very important pokemon for my stall team as a lead he can easily beat the majority with the mash followed with bullet punch combination deals with Azelf who threatens to explode on the softer members of my team. With an occa berry I can easily survive fire attacks and destroy Heatran, Infernape and any Tyranitar that is foolish enough to stay in he can even wall the rare Tyraniboah. Metagross other distinct roles on my team he acts as a reliable Stealth Rock he can wall dragons to a good extent something which most pokemon are unable to do and one of the only counters to mix mence due to the occa berry. Bullet Punch is an extremely useful move for revenge killing anything fairly weakened. Metagross final role in the team is to prevent ghost CM such as Mismagius from setting up. Due to the fact he fills so many roles and has no recovery he often dies early but nevertheless he is a key part of this team.
As you can see Metagross many roles and I feel a more bulky spread would befit him. I would be much obliged if someone could help me with the EVs as I feel he is not nearly bulky enough.
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(Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/40 SAtk/216 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
Toxic
Wish
Protect
Flamethrower

Description

Blissey is my answer to all special threats bar a few an she is unrivalled in her ability to wall this portion of the metagame. There are many thorough explanations of this set elsewhere but for me this set provides a toxic staller extraordinaire. Protect, Toxic, Wish fulfils this role perfectly. Protect is so useful particularly in its ability to aid to the mounting toxic damage and on explosions and choiced attackers where I will switch to an appropriate resist. Flamethrower is for all the toxic resists damn you Heatran.
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Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP/100 Def/36 Spd/120 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Surf
Hidden Power Electric


Description

Tentacruel is the pokemon that inspired me to make this team. It’s so c(R)ool... Anyway Tentacruel provides me with the toxic spikes that this team relies on and it has never failed in its task. This is my initial Heatran counter and he does an excellent job taking a pittance from fire blast but watch out for earth power. Tentacruel is a solid mixape counter and hp electric will take a good chunk off with an cocksure Gyarados. Surf provides a strong STAB, Rapid Spin is surprisingly easy to pull off and can win matches. Tentacruel also absorbs toxic spikes which otherwise rape my team.
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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/40 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
Grass Knot
Heal Bell/Thunder Wave
Perish Song
Recover


Description

Another standard form Obi’s team but highly necessary. I’m running a slightly different set though. Celebi is my teams primary Gyarados counter I need him badly as I feel Gyarados Is probably the least counterable pokemon and will easily sweep my team without Celebi. Bounce versions are extremely problematic though but can be dealt with through switching between Celebi and Rotom-W. Celebi’s other primary task on this team is phase through the use of the awesome perish song he is the best bulky CM Jirachi and bulky CM Suicune counter again problematic for my team he is also my general bulky water counter. I’m thinking of running Thunder Wave to further punish the multitude of threats that freely switch into this set as Heal Bell is largely redundant with my dual natural curers.
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Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/40 Atk/216 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
Earthquake
Roost
Ice Fang
Substitute


Description

Gliscor was another Pokemon that I wanted to include on my team this provides a solid counter to many of the usual threats to a stall team the bulky fighter Machamp who provides no end of headaches and SD Lucario who destroys all and most terrifying Tyranitar who would otherwise wreak havoc. This set also outpaces timid Heatran and lots of other bulky sweepers. Ice fang is for the dragons who think they have the upper hand. Sub, Roost is similar to Zapdos and Gliscor utilises it to similar effect adding up the toxic damage as he goes whilst earthquake dents those foolish enough to absorb toxic spikes.
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Rotom-w@ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
Thunderbolt
Will-o-wisp
Rest
Sleep Talk

Description

Rotom-W is essential for a platinum stall team. This set is an unfailing steel counter protecting me from the likes of Metagross, Bronzong and their nasty explosions it is also a solid Scizor and Mamoswine counter who he can take all day. Tyranitar receives a nasty burn whenever it switches in so Rotom is not very susceptible to pursuit. Rotom-W also blocks rapid spin and so I can prolong toxic spikes he can also take on Gyarados in a pinch. I use Rotom-W so that heatran think twice before switching in and then i dont have to switch my self as subtran causes serious problems for this team.

There you have it my attempt at stall this took me a shitload of time so please do a thoughtful rate.

If anyone could help me specifically with EV’s that would be great.

Thanks to Caelum for your help with the team.

P.S. Please don’t tell me this is obi’s team only worse as I am trying to interpret stall in a unique as possible way but in doing so am paying homage to obi’s stall team.

P.P.S Pictures on the way.

 

[Sephiroth32194]

Consider putting Lum Berry over Occa Berry on Metagross. It allows you to take statuses from certain Pokemon, such as Gengar, Bronzong, Blissey, Cresselia, etc. Burn/Paralysis can really mess up your Metagross' strategy, and Lum Berry will help for that. Also, lol Blissey only has 3 moves, I know you want Flamethrower on that spot, so remember to put that there. XD Go with Thunder Wave on Celebi, seeing as 2 of your Pokemon have Natural Cure, your lead may be carrying Lum Berry, Tentacruel doesn't care about Burn/Poison, Gliscor has Substitute to avoid statuses, and Rotom has Rest. Thunder Wave would help to cripple the opposing team. That's all I can find right now, just consider these changes. Otherwise, pretty good team overall ^^

 

[wildfire393]

Way Trick weak. I recommend having at least one Choiced Pokemon on the team, if not 2-3. My suggestion would be switching your lead Pokemon to TrickScarf Jirachi:

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Att / 176 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Iron Head
Stealth Rocks
Trick
Zen Headbutt/Ice Punch/Fire Punch/Thunder Punch/Body Slam/Thunder Wave

Trick Scarf Jirachi is a fantastic Anti-lead Pokemon. Against Aerodactyl and Azelf, two of the most common suicide leads, he can Iron Head, causing a 60% chance of Flinch and wrecking their scarf. The second hit should then KO them. This means that 60% of the time, they don't get their rocks up. Iron Head also does a great deal to other common Leads like Tyranitar, Weavile, and Abomasnow. Trick screws over slower leads like Bronzong and Hippowdon, forcing them to switch if they use rocks and giving you a free switch to a levitator/flyer if they use EQ. Stealth Rocks are obvious, usually used after tricking the scarf on to something that will be forced to switch out.
The last move is really up to you. Zen Headbutt provides a secondard STAB that most notably hits Infernape Super Effectively, allowing you to potentially counter him as a Starter (while Iron Head is something like a 5HKO, it is a 2HKO). Body Slam or Thunderwave allow you to get Paralysis Support, making for a Nasty ParaFlinch combo latergame (after scarf has been tricked usually). Thunderwave is more reliable, but is significantly less useful while Scarfed (as you must switch out after using it). Any of the elemental Punches can be used to allow Jirachi to act as a counter to a specific threat: Fire Punch for Lucario/Scizor, Thunderpunch for Gyarados, or Ice Punch for Salamence.

 

[Kir]

wildfire393: 2 or 3 Choiced Pokemon on a stall team is a bad idea. Trick simply needs to be played intelligently. Let the Pokemon least valuable in that given match absorb the Trick.

I'm not too fond of the Celebi set. The thing that makes Celebi so effective at using Perish Song is the fact that he can couple it with U-turn. When the Perish Count is at 1, use U-turn and you are again in a position you can wall the opponent. U-turn > Heal Bell/Thunder Wave.

Losing Heal Bell is tough though. Clerics can be a very important part to a stall team. I recommend changing Blissey into your cleric, and then switching Metagross for a Wish Jirachi. You could put Stealth Rock on that same Jirachi or you could put SR on Gliscor over Substitute. I think Taunt is also worthy of consideration over Substitute. What makes the SubRoost strategy effective for a Pokemon like Zapdos is their ability Pressure, which Gliscor obviously doesn't have.

Hope this doesn't sound overly critical or anything like that. I really like the team. Good job and good luck ;)

Edit: Leading with a Wish + U-turn + SR Jirachi actually sounds pretty effective to me. You can bluff that you are of the Trick Scarf variety, making your opponent think you are an offensive team. You are also not going to be Taunted by the likes of Aerodactyl allowing you to get a free SR.

 

[blasphemy1]

I considered a Toxic Spikes team for quite a while, however I found it to fail hard in OU, where the most vicious pokemon, are immune to Toxic or have Natural Cure. Examples are Scizor, Heatran, Gyarados, Zapdos, Lucario, Blissey, Celebi, etc. All of these don't really care about them, and they don't even require a move to remove. You are gonna have to keep Rotom-W, Metagross, or Gliscor in the game at all times, or else something can easily keep absorbing them. This isn't really a rate, just a suggestion to move away from the toxistall idea, unless it is working for you.

 

[iKitsune]

@ Sephiroth321934

Consider putting Lum Berry over Occa Berry on Metagross.

Occa berry allows me to always set up sr and can nab kills on heatran and the like. Lum berry would be useless as i have rotom to take sleep or blissey or celebi.

@Wildfire393

TrickScarf Jirachi

Um i find metagross does a similar job but is more effective as it does more damage and is not prone to being set up on. Im not really bothered about the opponent setting up sr as nothing on my team is weak to it. I also have this pseudo rule that i do not have jirachi and celebi on the same team.

@Stauffen

Celebi so effective at using Perish Song is the fact that he can couple it with U-turn.

I think T-Wave may still be more useful so i can punish anything that would otherwise get a free switch in. Also help me do more against many threats.

On Gliscor I think Taunt is also worthy of consideration over Substitute.

Taunt is an excellent idea on Gliscor thanks for that no status or setting up yay.

Also if you have any advice on how to make metagross more bulky that would be much appreciated.

@Blasphemy1

I considered a Toxic Spikes team for quite a while, however I found it to fail hard in OU, where the most vicious pokemon, are immune to Toxic or have Natural Cure. Examples are Scizor, Heatran, Gyarados, Zapdos, Lucario, Blissey, Celebi, etc.

I am aware of this however i feel that most of these threats are thoroughly covered on my team whilst things that can tank for ages are not really enter toxic spikes which destroys these. BTW natural cure is useless against toxic spikes as toxic spikes affect continues throughout the battle. So they are continually poisoned every time they switch in infact it is one of the only ways to beat celebi and blissey.

 

[Orion]

I am aware of this however i feel that most of these threats are thoroughly covered on my team whilst things that can tank for ages are not really enter toxic spikes which destroys these. BTW natural cure is useless against toxic spikes as toxic spikes affect continues throughout the battle. So they are continually poisoned every time they switch in infact it is one of the only ways to beat celebi and blissey.

Just know that stall-teams always will carry their own Poison-type to absorb Toxic Spikes, and often also a Cleric to heal those who had to take the Status. Offensive teams that doesn't care enough to carry a Spinner or a Poison-Poké generally packs a lot of those blasphemy mentioned, meaning they don't fear TSpikes all that much.

I'm not saying your team is bad, but Toxic Spikes alone is a frail theme to build a team around. Toxic Spikes is utilized best in coalition with Stealth Rock and normal Spikes, so that when a Poison-Poké enters to soak up TSpikes, the other spikes are left unharmed. That's why mostly (or almost only?) stall-teams are users of Toxic Spikes.

So basically what I will suggest is that you either drop the Toxic Spikes-theme, and build a team centralized around something else, or you can go the whole way, and use a pure stall-team, and then add a user of Spikes (which Forretress or Skarmory does best, arguably).
Basically, if you add Swampert or Hippowdon over Gliscor, and Forretress or Skarmory over Metagross, you have everything you already have, but it will probably be utilized more effectively, and giving you a very stalling team, that constantly chips off the opponents HP by residual damage, and constantly healing your very bulky Pokémon.

The suggested Ground-Pokés should carry an Impish or Relaxed nature, both having 252 EVs in HP, and generally a buttload in Defense as well. You'll find very good spreads in the analysis. Then, you want them to carry Stealth Rock and Earthquake, and the two other moves depend on which of Hippo and Swampert you choose, and also what kind of set you want them to have. Again, the analysis is very helpful.

To the two Steels, they too want Max HP, +Defense Natures and a buttload in Defense. They both want Spikes, obviously, and the other moves depends on which one => analysis.
You can also use all four perfectly as a lead.

 

[ToF]

Yeah I don't think this will work without Spikes considering the amount of OU threats that are immune to Toxic Spikes. A simple fix would be Skarmory over Gliscor. Both basically wall the same stuff, and things that you have that Gliscor walls on your threat list are covered by Rotom with Will-O-Wisp. Skarmory will provide the Spikes that make your stall easier to take out opposing threats.

I don't understand the craze with Metagross leads lately. If you want a pseudo-suicide lead, use Shuca Berry Heatran. Heatran almost guarantees Stealth Rock up, and possubly can Explode on Blissey's face. Metagross is too predictable in my opinion, and always manages to explode on Rotom in my experiences. At least with Heatran you can fire off Fire Blasts to scout the team before Exploding.

On Tentacruel, HP Electric is useless considering you have Celebi. Use either Ice Beam or Knock Off in that last slot to catch incoming Salamence or to cripple stuff like Blissey.

On Celebi, you need Thunderwave, or possibly Reflect, in order to prevent being swept by DD LO Gyarados. With the combination of two Natural Curers and Rotom to absorb status, I think you're covered. Reflect is my personal preference, considering it forces more switched and racks up even more Spikes + SR damage.

Everything else looks decent enough, good luck.

 

[blasphemy1]

Unfortunately it is very hard to move towards stall without lacking creativity, as Obi has already set the standards for a stall team, which is Hippowdon / Skarmory / Blissey / Celebi / Tentacruel / Spiritomb. Of course, there are a few ways to differentiate your team from his, by adding Swampert > Hippowdon, Roserade > Tentacruel, and Rotom-A>Spiritomb. However, save Spiritomb, his pokemon are indefinitely better at their jobs. Hippowdon brings sand to the table, adding more residual damage, while healing off damage, meaning he can keep switching into Tyranitar. If Tyranitar uses Aqua Tail, just send in Skarmory for a layer of Spikes. Tentacruel can get free turns against Heatran and Infernape, who would otherwise destroy stall teams.

If you don't want to simply copy Obi's team, then Skarmory can go over Gliscor, who can set up Spikes, as previously stated. Skarmory should have a Shed Shell, to escape those pesky Magnezones. This allows you to lose Metagross, since you have a more reliable dragon resist in Skarmory. I suggest using either Aerodactyl or Azelf as your lead. This will lead your opponent into thinking your team is offensive, but boy will they be wrong. Azelf is good since it can Explode, but Aerodactyl can Taunt opposing Azelfs. Personal preference really.