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OU CCAT: Zoroark [See Post #663]
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
I tried out Katakiri's Donphan test team and so far its working really well for me. jc and Ginganinja mentioned earlier that they didn't think Gyarados fit with the team, but honestly I'd have to disagree. I haven't really needed to use it as a pivot too often and most of the time I just set up early on to weaken the team. After that and Zoro doing what it does best, there's really nothing to stop a clean sweep with DD Haxorus. While I haven't had all that much success with Donphan, it seems to work well with the team, so my vote goes to Offensive Donphan.
Edit: Played with it some more today, still working well. I noticed a weakness to rain stall (like M Dragon's The Art of Rain Stall from the checklist). The biggest problem was that there's nothing that can really beat Skarm since even Zoroark barely 2HKOs in rain, so they can just switch to something like Politoed or Tentacruel. Also, on a side note, the best part about this team is when people go "lol special haxorus".
Edit: Played with it some more today, still working well. I noticed a weakness to rain stall (like M Dragon's The Art of Rain Stall from the checklist). The biggest problem was that there's nothing that can really beat Skarm since even Zoroark barely 2HKOs in rain, so they can just switch to something like Politoed or Tentacruel. Also, on a side note, the best part about this team is when people go "lol special haxorus".
Yay, I got to chose Offensive Donphan for the team
YOU ARE ALL SHEEP AND I HATE YOU
lol yea big surprise
DONPHAN (OFFENSIVE) IS OUR NEW TEAM-MATE
For the next stage, im asking people to start doing a bit of testing. Skarmory and Rain Stall have already been highlighted as problems, I personally consider special attackers tricky to deal with and im sure that we all have likes and dislikes on the team. Refer to our Team Checklist when making a nomination as usual, check it out etc etc. I will personally try and type up a post sometime listing threats and possible solutions but it would be nice if you all helped with this since it helps make a better team.
lol yea big surprise
DONPHAN (OFFENSIVE) IS OUR NEW TEAM-MATE
For the next stage, im asking people to start doing a bit of testing. Skarmory and Rain Stall have already been highlighted as problems, I personally consider special attackers tricky to deal with and im sure that we all have likes and dislikes on the team. Refer to our Team Checklist when making a nomination as usual, check it out etc etc. I will personally try and type up a post sometime listing threats and possible solutions but it would be nice if you all helped with this since it helps make a better team.
Scarf Jirachi seems like an excellent idea at this point:
1) Rofl we are so tornadus weak it's not even funny.
2) Jirachi can switch in and take it out with Iron Head
3) Stall being an issue, Jirachi can Trick the Choice Scarf to give Haxorus or Gyarados setup opportunities
1) Rofl we are so tornadus weak it's not even funny.
2) Jirachi can switch in and take it out with Iron Head
3) Stall being an issue, Jirachi can Trick the Choice Scarf to give Haxorus or Gyarados setup opportunities
I'll start off by nominating a 'mon that Katakiri used in his Donphan testing team that covered a few of the team's weaknesses well.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
-Iron Head
-Body Slam
-Fire Punch
-Stealth Rock
It beats many special attackers that would otherwise demolish this team, most notably Tornadus and Latios. Its typing fits perfectly into the team, adding several dearly needed resistances. The set has been around for ages, so I'm sure you all know how it works. One of the main downsides is that it is beaten by most bulky steels and waters. While Zoroark is there to take out the steels with Flamethrower, it isn't the most reliable thing in the world so it's worth having a back up.
Jirachi @ Expert Belt
152 Atk / 204 SpA / 152 Spe, Naive
-Iron Head
-Fire Punch
-Hidden Power Ice
-Thunderbolt
This is the mixed attacker set onsite. What it loses in special defense it makes up for with the ability to feign a scarf set with Iron Head and nail the bulky steels and waters as well as Gliscor with a surprise SE attack. I've been thinking about a set of maybe Iron Head / Thunderbolt / Fire Punch / SR since rocks are virtually required and Gliscor isn't much of an issue thanks to Gyarados. There's also Body Slam / Thunderbolt / Fire Punch / SR which seems interesting (note: I'm just pulling these sets out of my ass, I'll test them later) since you keep the ability to paralyze things even though you lose your STAB.
If you look at Texas Cloverleaf's Sceptile's Return, there isn't much that can beat Politoed or Tentacruel (Ferrothorn is quickly worn down by the other team members, Sceptile is outsped and OHKO'd by our +1 DDers and can't OHKO either of them, and Gyarados and Jirachi can't really set up against anything. Donphan doesn't play much of a role here or against any rain team for that matter besides spin away hazards). Jirachi takes care of these two threats handily. They come in thinking that its a specially defensive or scarf set that they can take advantage of in order to burn whatever comes in, which in most cases kills your momentum. Jirachi doesn't mind a burn as much since it can still fire off Thunderbolts.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
-Iron Head
-Body Slam
-Fire Punch
-Stealth Rock
It beats many special attackers that would otherwise demolish this team, most notably Tornadus and Latios. Its typing fits perfectly into the team, adding several dearly needed resistances. The set has been around for ages, so I'm sure you all know how it works. One of the main downsides is that it is beaten by most bulky steels and waters. While Zoroark is there to take out the steels with Flamethrower, it isn't the most reliable thing in the world so it's worth having a back up.
Jirachi @ Expert Belt
152 Atk / 204 SpA / 152 Spe, Naive
-Iron Head
-Fire Punch
-Hidden Power Ice
-Thunderbolt
This is the mixed attacker set onsite. What it loses in special defense it makes up for with the ability to feign a scarf set with Iron Head and nail the bulky steels and waters as well as Gliscor with a surprise SE attack. I've been thinking about a set of maybe Iron Head / Thunderbolt / Fire Punch / SR since rocks are virtually required and Gliscor isn't much of an issue thanks to Gyarados. There's also Body Slam / Thunderbolt / Fire Punch / SR which seems interesting (note: I'm just pulling these sets out of my ass, I'll test them later) since you keep the ability to paralyze things even though you lose your STAB.
If you look at Texas Cloverleaf's Sceptile's Return, there isn't much that can beat Politoed or Tentacruel (Ferrothorn is quickly worn down by the other team members, Sceptile is outsped and OHKO'd by our +1 DDers and can't OHKO either of them, and Gyarados and Jirachi can't really set up against anything. Donphan doesn't play much of a role here or against any rain team for that matter besides spin away hazards). Jirachi takes care of these two threats handily. They come in thinking that its a specially defensive or scarf set that they can take advantage of in order to burn whatever comes in, which in most cases kills your momentum. Jirachi doesn't mind a burn as much since it can still fire off Thunderbolts.
Even though I haven't been contributing a whole lot, I really am liking the team.
I've done a bit of testing and I've noticed a few things:
-This team has a little trouble dealing with weather teams.
-The team has some issues with Wallbreaking.
How about a Nasty Plot Lucario set to remedy the Wallbreaking issue? Here's one that I've been doing pretty well with.
My nomination:
Lucario@Life Orb
Steadfast
Timid (+Spd, -Att)
252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 HP
-Nasty Plot
-Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse
-Vacuum Wave
This set tricks so many Physical Walls to come out. People see a Lucario and immediately think that it is a SD set. It annihilates anything without a heavy investment in SpD and HP. It even powers through special walls. With 1 Nasty Plot, not a whole lot will like to take an Aura Sphere. Dark Pulse is there for some more coverage, very few Pokemon resist both Fighting and Dark type moves. Vacuum Wave was not my first choice, but I realized that Lucario does get outsped quite often so a Priority-move is always nice to have. Anything that doesn't outspeed Lucario will have a major issue walling it or knocking it out, so a Timid nature is used so that Lucario can outspeed as much as possible. I think the EVs are kind of obvious why I chose them. I think that Life Orb is a good choice because boosts Lucario attack a good bit. And to top it all off, Lucario can easily feign being Zoroark. I mean, when an opponent looks at the team preview and sees a Zoroark, and then sees something use Nasty Plot, they are immediately going to think "Oh, this has to be Zoroark!" But they will be dead wrong, and will pay for the misprediction.
I've done a bit of testing and I've noticed a few things:
-This team has a little trouble dealing with weather teams.
-The team has some issues with Wallbreaking.
How about a Nasty Plot Lucario set to remedy the Wallbreaking issue? Here's one that I've been doing pretty well with.
My nomination:
Lucario@Life Orb
Steadfast
Timid (+Spd, -Att)
252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 HP
-Nasty Plot
-Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse
-Vacuum Wave
This set tricks so many Physical Walls to come out. People see a Lucario and immediately think that it is a SD set. It annihilates anything without a heavy investment in SpD and HP. It even powers through special walls. With 1 Nasty Plot, not a whole lot will like to take an Aura Sphere. Dark Pulse is there for some more coverage, very few Pokemon resist both Fighting and Dark type moves. Vacuum Wave was not my first choice, but I realized that Lucario does get outsped quite often so a Priority-move is always nice to have. Anything that doesn't outspeed Lucario will have a major issue walling it or knocking it out, so a Timid nature is used so that Lucario can outspeed as much as possible. I think the EVs are kind of obvious why I chose them. I think that Life Orb is a good choice because boosts Lucario attack a good bit. And to top it all off, Lucario can easily feign being Zoroark. I mean, when an opponent looks at the team preview and sees a Zoroark, and then sees something use Nasty Plot, they are immediately going to think "Oh, this has to be Zoroark!" But they will be dead wrong, and will pay for the misprediction.
I have three great movesets that i had success with when i tested this team. i tried to keep the hyper offensive battling style in mind when i came up with these.
With problems with rain stall, i thought, a grass type would be great. what better grass type than the great grass fairy?
I first thought the all out attacker set would have great synergy with zoroark (u-turn)
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 176 HP / 152 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power
- U-turn
We could also try the nasty plot set because in this team, it can have its counters removed quite well (such as heatran or ferrothorn) and that is always great.
Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SAtk / 36 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic / Recover
^we might not even use hp fire if we decide to use him with zoroark's illuision to get rid of steels.
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Tri Attack
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Recover
offensive Porygon is such a beast. it completes the bulky, hard hitting core with donphan, and its coverage is phenomenal. It can also check hard hitting pokemon and retaliate with a STAB +1 tri attack or one of its boltbeam moves.
With problems with rain stall, i thought, a grass type would be great. what better grass type than the great grass fairy?
I first thought the all out attacker set would have great synergy with zoroark (u-turn)
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 176 HP / 152 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power
- U-turn
We could also try the nasty plot set because in this team, it can have its counters removed quite well (such as heatran or ferrothorn) and that is always great.
Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SAtk / 36 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic / Recover
^we might not even use hp fire if we decide to use him with zoroark's illuision to get rid of steels.
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Tri Attack
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Recover
offensive Porygon is such a beast. it completes the bulky, hard hitting core with donphan, and its coverage is phenomenal. It can also check hard hitting pokemon and retaliate with a STAB +1 tri attack or one of its boltbeam moves.
O.k, as promised, here is a list of attacking threats I feel we struggle to deal with. Stuff I rather like are in BOLD
Gengar
Rotom W
Virizion
Salamence
Starmie
Tornados
Latias
Volcarona
Kyurem
From this I can say that we NEED a steel type, urgently. Currently, dragon attacks rip through our team and there is very little we can do to handle them. Also, pokemon such as Starmie also destroy us, as well as Volcarona, which can sweep if Gyarados is down (not that hard to do at all between Stealth Rock, LO Recoil and Double Edge Recoil). Its a big list, but I am sure that we can cut down on that somewhat.
Our best bets I think, for this is going to be either Jirachi or Scizor. Both of these do an amazing job at handling most of whats on that list, and lets us pick a final member designed to break apart stall cores. Specially Defensive Jirachi sounds good, although I do hate how it stalls our offensive momentum, and therefore favour something like CM + Wish Jirachi (for survivability), or just Scarf Jirachi so it can outspeed everything and revenge. CB Scizor also looks good for revenging most of whats on that list, and it works kinda well with the priority from Donphan which helps us pick off quite a lot of threats.
Note
I have no actually playtested my suggestions yet as university is a bit tricky right now but I will get to it!!!
Gengar
Rotom W
Virizion
Salamence
Starmie
Tornados
Latias
Volcarona
Kyurem
From this I can say that we NEED a steel type, urgently. Currently, dragon attacks rip through our team and there is very little we can do to handle them. Also, pokemon such as Starmie also destroy us, as well as Volcarona, which can sweep if Gyarados is down (not that hard to do at all between Stealth Rock, LO Recoil and Double Edge Recoil). Its a big list, but I am sure that we can cut down on that somewhat.
Our best bets I think, for this is going to be either Jirachi or Scizor. Both of these do an amazing job at handling most of whats on that list, and lets us pick a final member designed to break apart stall cores. Specially Defensive Jirachi sounds good, although I do hate how it stalls our offensive momentum, and therefore favour something like CM + Wish Jirachi (for survivability), or just Scarf Jirachi so it can outspeed everything and revenge. CB Scizor also looks good for revenging most of whats on that list, and it works kinda well with the priority from Donphan which helps us pick off quite a lot of threats.
Note
I have no actually playtested my suggestions yet as university is a bit tricky right now but I will get to it!!!
i dont think dragons are the problems. from that list, i think theres one pokemon that can handle them all but one (virizion). gastrodon. and to keep the offensive nature of the team, i suggest a specs gastrodon. how will that work out? i again, like ginga, did not try gastrodon.
also, if we are leaning towards steel types, i think a tank/physically defensive cobalion could be great, in order to check a lot of the stuff on there.
so i propose a
Specs Gastrodon or Physically Defensive Cobalion
also, if we are leaning towards steel types, i think a tank/physically defensive cobalion could be great, in order to check a lot of the stuff on there.
so i propose a
Specs Gastrodon or Physically Defensive Cobalion
I'd prefer to go with something like Expert Belt Rachi, or we could even test out stuff like Doom Desire (I tried it in an earlier iteration of this team and half the time it just won the game for me, even if the other half it did nothing; if anyone's interested don't use Specs) since it could be incredibly effective in conjunction with Zoro's mindgames.
Waiting to see other peoples opinions before I post a nom, but I don't really think there are many options here.
Waiting to see other peoples opinions before I post a nom, but I don't really think there are many options here.
Scarf Jirachi is definitely the way to go. Using Scarf Rachi leaves us open to some bigger threats that can sweep or seriously hurt us if we give them space to set up (Volc, dragons on weak move, Gliscor, etc) but the amount of Pokemon it checks is ridiculously. That said, I was thinking we could possibly use a special attacking Scarf Jirachi. It's unconventional sure, but we're filled with physical attackers as is.
Maybe
~Thunderbolt
~Flash Cannon
~HP Ice
~U turn / Trick
could work.
I like this thought process, but really what happens if they predict wrong? Either Lucario or Zoroark is coming out, my instinct is to blast it before it can set up. Something to consider, because both mons are frail and can't afford to take an unresisted hit.
I like Scarf Jirachi except for the fact that we are massively weak to Volcarona, especially if Gyara is weakened. I considered something more typical like Scarf Landorus, but that is utterly predictable and doesn't synergize with the team too well. I also thought of something ridiculous like Scarf Mew (for Rock Slide), which seemed like an inferior choice to Jirachi. Maybe we could run something like Heatran which deals with Volcarona well? That might necessitate running Toxic or Roar or Rock Slide (I know, but I think I saw it in some RMT) which might screw up the offensive momentum, but as I see it, it's probably our best choice right now.
Hello Fellow CCAT dwellers. ^^
As I look at this team, I see many possibilities and one gaping weakness. Though Donphan may be a dragon check, still ntohing on this team resists dragons in any sort. Things like Double Dance Haxorus, Scarf Haxorus, and variants of Latios can smash through this team with no problem because they immediately outspeed the whole team, Latios especially. To remedy this problem we could add steel types, which would add to racking up entry hazard damage (namely Ferrothorn and Skarmory) or aiding the team with Para and Wish Support (Jirachi). Here are some of the sets I had in mind.
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
252 HP, 180 SpDef, rest in Def
Sassy (+Spdef, - Speed if I remember correctly... correct me if i'm wrong)
-Leech Seed
-Protect
-Spikes
-Gyro Ball
Standard-ish Ferro with Rocky Helmet instead of Leftovers to damage those pesky Outragers. Rocky Helmet + Iron Barbs + Leech Seed can wear down attackers like no one's business. Leech seed is a form of recovery witch Ferro wouldn't otherwise get without Leftovers. Gyro Ball for beating down those speedy dragons, and Spikes for entry hazard damage. Protect for getting that vital HP back because it will most likely be taking heavy hits.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
252 HP, 224 Def, 32 Spe
Impish (+Def, - SpAtk)
-Body Slam
-Iron Head
-Wish
-Fire Punch/ Uturn
Kind of a bootlegged mix of Specially Defensive Jirachi and a less common 4th gen set. Kind of seems like a niche set I made specifically for this team lol. But it's self explanatory, Haxarachi is back. Body Slam is for Paralyzing faster threats, and Iron head is for that BIG, FLINCH. Wish is for recovery for Jirachi as well as other team mates, and Uturn is for less risky Wish passing as well as escaping the clutches of Magnezone.
Again, as I had said earlier, Skarmory is a viable replacement to Ferrothorn and can be used to phaze as well. Another solution to remedy the speed problem for this team could be to use scarfers that can eliminate dragons like Salamence, Terrakion, Latios, Haxorus, etc..
Well there is my two cents, definitely let me know what you guys thinks.
DEUCES!
As I look at this team, I see many possibilities and one gaping weakness. Though Donphan may be a dragon check, still ntohing on this team resists dragons in any sort. Things like Double Dance Haxorus, Scarf Haxorus, and variants of Latios can smash through this team with no problem because they immediately outspeed the whole team, Latios especially. To remedy this problem we could add steel types, which would add to racking up entry hazard damage (namely Ferrothorn and Skarmory) or aiding the team with Para and Wish Support (Jirachi). Here are some of the sets I had in mind.
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
252 HP, 180 SpDef, rest in Def
Sassy (+Spdef, - Speed if I remember correctly... correct me if i'm wrong)
-Leech Seed
-Protect
-Spikes
-Gyro Ball
Standard-ish Ferro with Rocky Helmet instead of Leftovers to damage those pesky Outragers. Rocky Helmet + Iron Barbs + Leech Seed can wear down attackers like no one's business. Leech seed is a form of recovery witch Ferro wouldn't otherwise get without Leftovers. Gyro Ball for beating down those speedy dragons, and Spikes for entry hazard damage. Protect for getting that vital HP back because it will most likely be taking heavy hits.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
252 HP, 224 Def, 32 Spe
Impish (+Def, - SpAtk)
-Body Slam
-Iron Head
-Wish
-Fire Punch/ Uturn
Kind of a bootlegged mix of Specially Defensive Jirachi and a less common 4th gen set. Kind of seems like a niche set I made specifically for this team lol. But it's self explanatory, Haxarachi is back. Body Slam is for Paralyzing faster threats, and Iron head is for that BIG, FLINCH. Wish is for recovery for Jirachi as well as other team mates, and Uturn is for less risky Wish passing as well as escaping the clutches of Magnezone.
Again, as I had said earlier, Skarmory is a viable replacement to Ferrothorn and can be used to phaze as well. Another solution to remedy the speed problem for this team could be to use scarfers that can eliminate dragons like Salamence, Terrakion, Latios, Haxorus, etc..
Well there is my two cents, definitely let me know what you guys thinks.
DEUCES!
I would agree that Scarf Jirachi would greatly benefit this team. It would give the team some really valuable speed, as well as giving us a solid dragon revenger(with ice punch). Scarf jirachi with u-turn would also help keep up the offensive pressure by u-turning out to the appropriate pokemon. Scarf jirachi can also beat(revenge) most of the pokemon on that threat list fairly easily. Jirachi also has really nice natural bulk meaning it can take an outrage or two, giving us a fairly solid dragon resist and revenger.
@APimp
Dude, this is a HYPER OFFENSE TEAM. Ferrothorn has NO damn place on it. At all. Especially when we don't have a phazer. We'll get wrecked to shit by set up foes like that.
Anyway, Jirachi (of some sort, some OFFENSIVE sort), seems to be a good direction to go in. It gives us some defensive presence without totally screwing over our momentum, since it means we can stop dragons without getting obliterated and it also gives us another check to Scizor. Scarf would be good for preventing us getting wasted by Terrakion, but I can't help but to think a Expert Belt version would be better overall. Then again, we REALLY can't afford to be any weaker to Terrakion than we already are.
Anyway, migiht as well get this nomination out of the way.
Scizor @Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit
I honestly don't particularly want to use Scizor, but there's no denying what it'd bring to the team. It covers a good 80% or so of the threats up there, and whatever is left can be handled by our final team member. Volcarona and Rotom-W are the ones from the list that we can't easily deal with, and we DO have ways to scare them a bit, since Gyarados can deal with Volcarona (assuming no HP rock and decent health) and Rotom-W can't exactly switch into us safely. Still, probably want to check those two as well as getting up rocks don't we?
So with that in mind, I'm going to suggest something a little... odd.
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Yeah, HP rock Celebi is certainly not something you see every day. Because of this, usually Volcarona is about as safe a switch-in to Celebi as you can get, taking little from its moves and threatening with BOTH its STABs. It OHKOs non-bulky variants straight up and the bulky one has a 50% chance of going down. We'll have to predict the switch, but that's pretty easy since Volcarona is usually the best switch in ever to Celebi. Now I know it's not an ideal check or even lure to Volcarona (Ideally we'd always outspeed, but that's not really an option), but it gives us one way to quickly eliminate the pain that no one will expect unless they've read our RMT. And even then, we DO still have Gyarados.
Outside of that HP Rock offers similar coverage to HP Ice, preventing things like Dragonite from setting up on us. The Lati@s twins aren't nearly as much as a threat with Scizor around and HP Ice isn't going to be killing those reliably anyway. Leaf Storm is terrifically powerful and always OHKOs Rotom-W, which combined with resisting its STABs and being semi-immune to status makes Celebi a hard counter to it. Leaf Storm also does massive damage to large variety of other opponents that might think of switching in, making it a pretty spammable move. Celebi is a spectacular setter of Stealth Rock, having a good match-up against most leads, allowing it to easily get it up right away. Earth Power prevents Heatran from switching in with impunity and prevents most steels from walling us to kingdom come, as well as hitting other Fire types and Poison types on the switch.
But should that not be your cuppatea, then there's always this:
Azelf @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Flamethrower
This one has more trouble with Rotom-W but makes up for it with better speed, allowing it to lure in and OHKO Volcarona, as again, Volcarona is a pretty damn safe switch in for most Azelf. Focus Sash and Life Orb both guarantee kills on unboosted Volcarona, in different ways, and Focus Sash, if it's intact, allows us to revenge boosted versions as well if they've taken some prior damage. It also allows us to get up rocks fairly easily early game and provides us with a Starmie-fast (but significantly more powerful) revenge killer later on, who just happens to also be a check to Terrakion (something else we can really use). Hidden Power Rock also gives us a check for dragons, Gyarados, Tornadus, Kyurem, and others as well so it's not like it's useless outside of Volcarona. Psychic also allows us to beat Gengar and Virizon as well.
Now, to clarify these nominations... I'll group these into three.
Scizor
Scizor + Celebi
Scizor + Azelf
Celebi and Azelf only really work in combination with Scizor. There may be better partners for Scizor as well, but I wanted ones that could reliably set up SR since we obviously need a setter on our team. Still, might be better options out there. Feel free to critique, this is just random shit I came up with off the top of my head so it might be worse than it could be.
Dude, this is a HYPER OFFENSE TEAM. Ferrothorn has NO damn place on it. At all. Especially when we don't have a phazer. We'll get wrecked to shit by set up foes like that.
Anyway, Jirachi (of some sort, some OFFENSIVE sort), seems to be a good direction to go in. It gives us some defensive presence without totally screwing over our momentum, since it means we can stop dragons without getting obliterated and it also gives us another check to Scizor. Scarf would be good for preventing us getting wasted by Terrakion, but I can't help but to think a Expert Belt version would be better overall. Then again, we REALLY can't afford to be any weaker to Terrakion than we already are.
Anyway, migiht as well get this nomination out of the way.
Scizor @Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit
I honestly don't particularly want to use Scizor, but there's no denying what it'd bring to the team. It covers a good 80% or so of the threats up there, and whatever is left can be handled by our final team member. Volcarona and Rotom-W are the ones from the list that we can't easily deal with, and we DO have ways to scare them a bit, since Gyarados can deal with Volcarona (assuming no HP rock and decent health) and Rotom-W can't exactly switch into us safely. Still, probably want to check those two as well as getting up rocks don't we?
So with that in mind, I'm going to suggest something a little... odd.
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Yeah, HP rock Celebi is certainly not something you see every day. Because of this, usually Volcarona is about as safe a switch-in to Celebi as you can get, taking little from its moves and threatening with BOTH its STABs. It OHKOs non-bulky variants straight up and the bulky one has a 50% chance of going down. We'll have to predict the switch, but that's pretty easy since Volcarona is usually the best switch in ever to Celebi. Now I know it's not an ideal check or even lure to Volcarona (Ideally we'd always outspeed, but that's not really an option), but it gives us one way to quickly eliminate the pain that no one will expect unless they've read our RMT. And even then, we DO still have Gyarados.
Outside of that HP Rock offers similar coverage to HP Ice, preventing things like Dragonite from setting up on us. The Lati@s twins aren't nearly as much as a threat with Scizor around and HP Ice isn't going to be killing those reliably anyway. Leaf Storm is terrifically powerful and always OHKOs Rotom-W, which combined with resisting its STABs and being semi-immune to status makes Celebi a hard counter to it. Leaf Storm also does massive damage to large variety of other opponents that might think of switching in, making it a pretty spammable move. Celebi is a spectacular setter of Stealth Rock, having a good match-up against most leads, allowing it to easily get it up right away. Earth Power prevents Heatran from switching in with impunity and prevents most steels from walling us to kingdom come, as well as hitting other Fire types and Poison types on the switch.
But should that not be your cuppatea, then there's always this:
Azelf @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Flamethrower
This one has more trouble with Rotom-W but makes up for it with better speed, allowing it to lure in and OHKO Volcarona, as again, Volcarona is a pretty damn safe switch in for most Azelf. Focus Sash and Life Orb both guarantee kills on unboosted Volcarona, in different ways, and Focus Sash, if it's intact, allows us to revenge boosted versions as well if they've taken some prior damage. It also allows us to get up rocks fairly easily early game and provides us with a Starmie-fast (but significantly more powerful) revenge killer later on, who just happens to also be a check to Terrakion (something else we can really use). Hidden Power Rock also gives us a check for dragons, Gyarados, Tornadus, Kyurem, and others as well so it's not like it's useless outside of Volcarona. Psychic also allows us to beat Gengar and Virizon as well.
Now, to clarify these nominations... I'll group these into three.
Scizor
Scizor + Celebi
Scizor + Azelf
Celebi and Azelf only really work in combination with Scizor. There may be better partners for Scizor as well, but I wanted ones that could reliably set up SR since we obviously need a setter on our team. Still, might be better options out there. Feel free to critique, this is just random shit I came up with off the top of my head so it might be worse than it could be.
