OU Analyses Discussion Thread

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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manectric should get a revamp for sure. the most recent one is ancient, from the deo era iirc. recent metagame trends, such as spdef hippo and av raikou, are things that for sure impact manec.
sorry if i'm not explaining this well enough, i'm on mobile.
If it's just meta game information that stuff can be fixed over the cms, it's only worth giving something a revamp of the set needs to be changed, and I don't think manectrics set should be any different. Obviously not my call but just saying from experience.
 
hello, I just wanna know if anyone aside from myself believes that Ampharos needs a revamp. Amph's analysis isn't that outdated; rather, the problem lies within the structure and details of the analysis itself. To give a few examples:
  • The defensive set has an unnecessarily high amount of SDef investment
    • The analysis claims that this is to avoid the 2HKO from LO Thund's HP Ice and Modest Zard-Y's Fire Blast, but Ampharos can drop its investment to as low as 180 to avoid those 2HKOs after SR and a layer of Spikes
    • A heavy amount of Defense investment lets Ampharos become a fairly consistent Victini check (248/188/72 with a Calm nature--which gives Amph an extra stat point to work with--evades the 2HKO from Adamant +1 V-Create w/o SR on the field and still hits the aforementioned specially defensive benchmarks with room to spare)
    • Also lets Amph sort of tango with MGross and stuff
    • The "extra" Special Attack is mostly useless
  • Heal Bell + Discharge need stronger mentions, if not slashes on the defensive set
    • Volt Switch + Sleep Talk really blows
    • Heal Bell + Sleep Talk = potentially more Heal Bell PP (and Amph can wake up a bit earlier than expected)
    • Discharge means that you have an almost guaranteed win vs stallbreaker Talon (smart plays + Roost will stall VS Amph out, which is heartbreaking) and a really good shot vs other Taunt stallbreakers
    • Paralysis in general helps vs a lot of Amph's usual switch-ins, like defensive Tran (after the player using it realizes Amph is defensive) and Mega Alt
  • Rain has evolved to the point where Amph (from my exp at least) isn't extraordinary enough to slash Thunder on the Agility set
    • Plus there's no mention of complementary rain sweepers like Omastar, or complementary offensive partners in general
    • It's rly just generic shit like Keld and Sharp, which don't even primarily focus on weakening the stuff that Amph trips over (mentioning something like U-turn Thund or CB Azu (to help wear down bulky Grass-types) would better the reader's understanding of the support Ampharos wants)
    • Outright lures such as Magma Storm + SunnyBeam Heatran and trappers (Wobb in particular cuz it beats most Scarfers) aren't mentioned at all
  • Checks and Counters is also... lacking
    • Lots of things wall and take full advantage of the free turns Amph hands out
    • No mention of Gliscor or non-Hippo Ground-types
Minor things like adding in mentions of Mega Alt and removing Lando's presence from the analysis can be edited in, but given that its sets, team options, and checks & counters sections are rather shallow, the entire analysis needs an update.
 
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AM

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hello, I just wanna know if anyone aside from myself believes that Ampharos needs a revamp. Amph's analysis isn't that outdated; rather, the problem lies within the structure and details of the analysis itself. To give a few examples:
  • The defensive set has an unnecessarily high amount of SDef investment
    • The analysis claims that this is to avoid the 2HKO from LO Thund's HP Ice and Modest Zard-Y's Fire Blast, but Ampharos can drop its investment to as low as 180 to avoid those 2HKOs after SR and a layer of Spikes
    • A heavy amount of Defense investment lets Ampharos become a fairly consistent Victini check (248/188/72 with a Calm nature--which gives Amph an extra stat point to work with--evades the 2HKO from Adamant +1 V-Create w/o SR on the field and still hits the aforementioned specially defensive benchmarks with room to spare)
    • Also lets Amph sort of tango with MGross and stuff
    • The "extra" Special Attack is mostly useless
  • Heal Bell + Discharge need stronger mentions, if not slashes on the defensive set
    • Volt Switch + Sleep Talk really blows
    • Heal Bell + Sleep Talk = potentially more Heal Bell PP (and Amph can wake up a bit earlier than expected)
    • Discharge means that you have an almost guaranteed win vs stallbreaker Talon (smart plays + Roost will stall VS Amph out, which is heartbreaking) and a really good shot vs other Taunt stallbreakers
    • Paralysis in general helps vs a lot of Amph's usual switch-ins, like defensive Tran (after the player using it realizes Amph is defensive) and Mega Alt
  • Rain has evolved to the point where Amph (from my exp at least) isn't extraordinary enough to slash Thunder on the Agility set
    • Plus there's no mention of complementary rain sweepers like Omastar, or complementary offensive partners in general
    • It's rly just generic shit like Keld and Sharp, which don't even primarily focus on weakening the stuff that Amph trips over (mentioning something like U-turn Thund or CB Azu (to help wear down bulky Grass-types) would better the reader's understanding of the support Ampharos wants)
    • Outright lures such as Magma Storm + SunnyBeam Heatran and trappers (Wobb in particular cuz it beats most Scarfers) aren't mentioned at all
  • Checks and Counters is also... lacking
    • Lots of things wall and take full advantage of the free turns Amph hands out
    • No mention of Gliscor or non-Hippo Ground-types
Minor things like adding in mentions of Mega Alt and removing Lando's presence from the analysis can be edited in, but given that its sets, team options, and checks & counters sections are rather shallow, the entire analysis needs an update.
There's a couple of things that need revamps and analysis but I'm putting priority on stuff I want done now, such as Charizard for example. I'll make a more detailed post of stuff can people reserve at a later time once I've looked through and had time to see what actually needs a revamp and what doesn't.
 

Karxrida

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Shuckle's analysis mentions that it faces competition from Smeargle as a Sticky Web setter. Smeargle is shit since it is forced to be a suicide lead if it wants to ensure Webs get up (and it can still fail), while Shuckle has enough bulk to take at least one hit without Sturdy, can afford run Mental Herb to dodge a Taunt, and can potentially set up Webs multiple times. I think the mention should be removed.
 

DarkNostalgia

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Shuckle's analysis mentions that it faces competition from Smeargle as a Sticky Web setter. Smeargle is shit since it is forced to be a suicide lead if it wants to ensure Webs get up (and it can still fail), while Shuckle has enough bulk to take at least one hit without Sturdy, can afford run Mental Herb to dodge a Taunt, and can potentially set up Webs multiple times. I think the mention should be removed.
I mean, the 'official' Smeargle analysis has Sticky Web first and unslashed - if this niche wasn't good enough it probably wouldn't even be on there lol. Also, you miss the fact that Smeargle has access to Spore for free setup opportunities, and is generally faster. Not really sure but I could remove it via SCMS if needed.
 
With the ban of Landorus I need to bring up the question, does Nidoking have any viability in OU now?
Before, Nidoking was completely outclassed by Landorus to point where Nidokings differences weren't enough to warrant it a team slot over Landorus. However, Nidoking actually has room to make a name for itself. It has a large movepool, great special attack and STAB moves. It can nail faries as well as plenty of other threats. With Landorus gone, there is now room for a strong special attacking ground type. Sure it is on the slow side and it doesn't have the best bulk, but I can see Nidoking having a place in OU with the absence of Landorus.
 

DarkNostalgia

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With the ban of Landorus I need to bring up the question, does Nidoking have any viability in OU now?
Before, Nidoking was completely outclassed by Landorus to point where Nidokings differences weren't enough to warrant it a team slot over Landorus. However, Nidoking actually has room to make a name for itself. It has a large movepool, great special attack and STAB moves. It can nail faries as well as plenty of other threats. With Landorus gone, there is now room for a strong special attacking ground type. Sure it is on the slow side and it doesn't have the best bulk, but I can see Nidoking having a place in OU with the absence of Landorus.
We should definitely let the meta settle a bit more, let the viability of mons (which includes Nidoking) click into place first before writing analyses for them. And Nidoking is unranked for now on the VR thread, so I doubt it'll be elligible.
 
We should definitely let the meta settle a bit more, let the viability of mons (which includes Nidoking) click into place first before writing analyses for them. And Nidoking is unranked for now on the VR thread, so I doubt it'll be elligible.
I mean the thing just got banned so I don't think it will just instantly go on the viability thread. But i see your point though
 

p2

Banned deucer.
With the ban of Landorus I need to bring up the question, does Nidoking have any viability in OU now?
Before, Nidoking was completely outclassed by Landorus to point where Nidokings differences weren't enough to warrant it a team slot over Landorus. However, Nidoking actually has room to make a name for itself. It has a large movepool, great special attack and STAB moves. It can nail faries as well as plenty of other threats. With Landorus gone, there is now room for a strong special attacking ground type. Sure it is on the slow side and it doesn't have the best bulk, but I can see Nidoking having a place in OU with the absence of Landorus.
Nidoqueen is preferred over Nidoking because it's a decent Toxic Spike setter and the extra bulk is usually more useful than Nidokings higher SpA or Speed.

I don't use either, but I'm struggling to see why Nidoking has been hyped up a lot because it's really nothing special. Besides, AM did mention D rank was pushing it for Nidoking, so it's probably not going to get an analysis at all
 

AM

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So looking through some of the suggestions here and just looking up the dex here's some stuff that could use revamps and or CMS changes. This was an idea of what I was considering of what I wanted to do or suggest before I resigned from leading QC. I now have more time to do this so here's that comment. FYI I mentioned to TDK prior to this comment that I would be posting this and since Tokyo Toms Skype (we miss you ;-;) is doodoo this is for him to read as well. Revamp is revamp, CMS is badgeholder editing for how I categorize it. Just going to go alphabetically from what I see and this is a long comment.

Altaria: CMS

Set order to put it bluntly is ass, no shame in that meta changes. Special Attacker was cool when it was the main set to use but it's clearly obvious Dragon Dance is superior. My list order would personally be this.
  • Offensive Dragon Dance
  • Defensive Dragon Dance
  • Support
  • Special Attacker
Offensive DD needs Jolly slashed after Adamant. It's stupid to get outpaced by Heatran and below when you can win these match ups with Jolly. Adamant is understandable for first slash since it's necessary to achieve certain KOs but a lot of people use Jolly for the reason stated prior along with hitting a speed benchmark that only M-Alakazam and M-Aerodactyl can combat against after one Dragon Dance with Jolly. DDD needs Refresh to have a stronger mention of its practicality. Outlasting the majority of status inflicters is kind of huge in the grand scheme of this set, something that Heal Bell while provides a good team asset is prone to the trait of being PP stalled. Along the lines of all of this somewhere it needs to be mentioned that an offensive variant running Heal Bell / Refresh which a lot of people will do works as well.

Ampharos: Revamp

Needs a revamp in general there's like nothing in there other than some terrible checks and counters that I can assure you are not even close to checks in the context of how I would at least utilize Mega Ampharos.
  • Agility
  • Defensive
That's my idea of set order. Agility should have Timid slashed after Modest.

Azumarill: CMS

Custap Berry and Watmel Natural Gift need OO mentions. Anyone that's used Azumarill kind of knows that amazing as it is it always finds itself in a very low HP range after hazards and prior damage throughout the battle. Most peoples answers to Azumarill is revenge killing it barring BD sets under most circumstances. Custap gives it a shot against certain offensive mons like Mega Lopunny and Mega Alakazam when it's put into the dangerous zone, and a lot of matchups it would normally lose when on the verge of dying allowing it to get some clutch KOs. Watmel Berry is the set Leftiez and everyone has caught on to counter act Ferro + M-Scizor usage. I think this is a given to anyone who's been paying attention to OU lately.

Beedrill: CMS

It exaggerates in Other Options how you forgo Protect using something like Toxic Spikes when people would normally drop something else like its normal third coverage move for that surprise effect. Has 0 mentions of Pursuit in its write-up which needs to change.

Blastoise: CMS / Revamp

Lames use Water Pulse. Hydro Pump / Scald should be order for its water STAB and mention of SpAtk and Speed needs to be in set details. No not that small 68 mention I mean max. 4 attacks M-Blastoise is awesome as well. Hydro, Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere, Ice Beam / Flash Cannon / Hidden Power is 4 attacks.

Dragonite: CMS (mostly)
Iron Head and Iron Tail can both effectively beat Fairy-types, but they have no use outside of that.
With the rise of Mega Altaria this comment under OO is absolutely terrible. The no use comment outside of that would make sense if Mega Altaria and Clefable weren't such massive threats to take into account for on a daily basis.
A bulky Substitute + Dragon Dance set with Roost and Dragon Claw seems good on paper, but mono-Dragon coverage is no longer good due to the advent of Fairy-types.
This quote needs to tone down a bit the flaw of this cause I can assure you this set isn't as bad as the analysis is making it out to be. It's still OO but there's a lot of defensive cores that can withstand a regular Dragon Dance set but not this one due to Substitute blocking status affliction and Leftovers recovery.

Entei: CMS

AV in Other Options ~_~. Put Will-O-Wisp and Toxic down as well. Will-O-Wisp to bypass Bisharps Sucker Punch and Toxic to punish the normal water switch ins.

Gardevoir: CMS

So I don't remember if this occurred during or after the write up but I disagree with this slash on move 4 for its wallbreaker set which is right now Calm Mind / Taunt / Will-O-Wisp. CM and WoW should switch places in my eyes even for the idea the set is called "wall-breaker". Losing Will-O-Wisp means that at any given moment you're going to potentially be a free switch in to the two monstrous steel types in Mega Scizor and Mega Metagross. I also don't even get the specific asset in HP Ground for Heatran when Focus Blast is going to always be more useful in general for coverage purposes and the fact you can threaten the majority of steels with this move like Ferrothorn.

Speaking of Calm Mind, in other options Hyper Voice, Focus Blast, Encore, Calm Mind should be mentioned as an option. Encore in general should be an OO if anything. I can explain how it functions if necessary but I think it's kind of obvious in what it does. Taunt or Substitute I guess could be used over Encore in that particular set but from practice I've used the Encore variant so I can only speak on that and say it's worth a mention.

Gengar: CMS

I don't know where to start with this. Don't be alarmed it's not negative more so there's a lot of variations that the current analysis is not giving it credit for. For example the Life Orb attacker is so weird cause it can encompass Gengars capability with a ton of different variations. 3 attacks / Will-O-Wisp, SubSplit attacker, Hex Life Orb Gengar which functions as a stall-breaker that punishes Gliscor switch ins more effectively. Then you have Pain Split / WillOWisp and 3 attacks / Pain Split.
Gengar has a couple of miscellaneous coverage options that can beat some specific Pokemon, such as Energy Ball, Psychic, and Dazzling Gleam, but these moves have limited application compared to the versatility and strength of Gengar's normal options. Destiny Bond can be used in order to better deal with offensive threats. A Choice Specs set using Gengar's coverage and the lack of resistances to Ghost-type moves may seem appealing, but it requires a lot of support to function. Gengar can also beat pretty much every counter with coverage or Trick, and the power granted by Choice Specs makes it very hard to switch into, but overall, it is inefficient compared to the other sets. A Choice Scarf set can be used to capitalize on Gengar's immunity to Normal-type moves to reliably revenge kill Extreme Speed users, but these are not the biggest threats in the metagame, and it is pretty weak overall. Pain Split is an option for Substitute Gengar to recover health, affording the use of Life Orb in most situations too. It can also hassle some defensive Pokemon like Chansey or Clefable pretty well by discouraging healing, but utility Life Orb Gengar fails to be as effective against stall as Black Sludge, nor as effective as all-out Destiny Bond attacker against offense, so it's a situational middle ground.
If we're gonna have Energy Ball as an OO, we might as well put Thunderbolt in there considering Mandibuzz and Tentacruel is used as a traditional Gengar switch in on defensive cores. I already stated why the OO is weird cause most of those Life Orb variants have a lot more variations than what is implied by its main set. Moving some of these Life Orb variant OO to set details seems more appropriate.

Jirachi: CMS

Under Subtoxic mentioning Mega Scizor, Mega Tyranitar and Mega Metagross I think is more relevant than Excadrill as something you outrun when Excadrill most times is going to be under sand killing you anyways. I think Scarf Jirachi got removed during dex transistion since I can't find it. Enki wrote up the original so I think you can find it in uploaded analysis or prelim dex subforum and just implement that before the mixed attacker set that is pretty hard to justify on most teams.

Keldeo: CMS

Set order to me should be this.
  • All Out Attacker
  • SubCM
  • Scarf
Other Options needs a sleeptalk set the one Henry and others and most recently myself have been using with Scald, Secret Sword, Rest, Sleep Talk and Life Orb as the item. Tbh I'd use this set over Scarf but kind of falls under the All Out Attacker set anyways.

Kyurem-B: CMS

Naive needs to be mentioned in set details somewhere for its Life Orb variant.

Manectric: CMS

Needs to reflect current metagame mostly. Sets the same entire revamp isn't necessary.

Porygon2: CMS

Astroboy mentioned this through VM about spread handling Landorus when Landorus is now gone. Could use a spread for something like M-Alakazam or whatever QC thinks best is a benchmark.

Raikou: CMS

Lol this things Other Options is so bad right now. It has Aura Sphere and Scarf as some sort of legitimate options with no mention of stuff like HP Fire or Zap Plate. Aura sphere makes it lose a bunch of the utility that comes with Raikou such as outpacing the Lati twins and Gengar from being forced to use Rash and Scarf practically is almost laughable to where if you seriously have to use this chances are your team has way more problems that need to be addressed.

The Calm Mind set is super weird as well. It has 0 mentions of Volt Switch Calm Mind as variant that's been used to varying success with Tbolt, HP Ice, Volt Switch, CM or just Volt Switch, HP Ice, coverage, CM.

Reuniclus: CMS

The comment about Specs Reuni under Other Options should include Future Sight, which is why you would use it in the first place. Colbur and Kasib Berry have 0 mentions in Other Options where Colbur is solid to counteract its proneness to Tyranitar and Bisharp when using Focus Blast, and Hex Cofagrigus along with Gengar for Kasib Berry. A mention of running a more specially defensive variant should be included to combat stuff such as Mega Gardevoir and Specs Keldeo a bit better.

Serperior: CMS / New Set revamp

Set revamp is like minimum priority fyi more so if necessary it can use one after all the important stuff is done. I've had time to test Leech Seed variant....and I think it's ass. I think it's ass because Subseed is ass which is what's mentioned as the variant under Other Options when Taunt / Leech Seed is so much better cause it shuts down almost all the defensive cores and is sick tool on balance to help supplement stuff like Char-X and the usual Serp partners. I use HP / Speed, which can be changed to SpAtk / Speed, on this one with Leaf Storm / HP Ground / Leech Seed / Taunt with Leftovers which utilizes a somewhat fatter presence. The analysis mentions SubSeed which I think is realistically mediocre from what I've tried where Taunt can slow down a bunch more things like recovery and most components on stall. I also think that if Leech Seed isn't really your thing Taunt / Synthesis is also an option but to me that's more OO. Throwing a Leech Seed around on something like Heatran switch in and then hitting it with Taunt to deter rocks is awesome. There's other scenarios I can explain how it works but that's my thought on that.

Lum Berry needs a mention somewhere on the offensive variant. Having 0 mention of it is a travesty when chances are it's gonna save you if you're not running a Sub variant against stuff like Klefki or Thundurus using Thunder Wave, thus continuing your sweep and winning you games.

Slowbro: CMS

Agent Gibbs actually had a better spread from my understanding for the offensive Mega Slowbro set but got lost somewhere in the communication. I think that's the spread that should be used personally he had some pretty decent reasoning for using it.

Terrakion: CMS

Adamant nature Terrakion with SD Life Orb can do this.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 387-458 (92.1 - 109%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yet the mention of Adamant is only put down on its Scarf variant. The Hippowdon example is more or the less the extreme of what it's capable of, explaining that you need to be a big defensive threat to stomach most of its hits. I'd personally mention it in set details for its Life Orb set. SR set has Taunt and I would slash SD after it personally. Safeguard should be under Other Options along with Leftovers for its SD / Sub set to maintain longevity.

Thundurus: Revamp / Heavy CMS
Dark Pulse offers neutral coverage and hits some of Thundurus's checks and counters, including Trevenant
( x _ x )

The issue I have with Thundurus analysis stems from the sets like having Psychic slashed after Focus Blast on Prankster Attacker. I also strongly disagree with NP having Thunder Wave as its first slash when a set like Thunderbolt, HP Ice / Grass Knot, Focus Blast, Nasty Plot is so deadly to team right now and I find is more appealing these days. Also Substitute I wouldn't slash for the purpose you're losing coverage and the ability to block status I found goes out the window when you're too busy setting up and just destroying balance cores. Life Orb set I'd have a move slash the same way. Psychic was for a time where M-Venusaur was super common and that isn't the case so much now to where it deserves a slash after Focus Blast, basically one of its best moves to punish Exca and TTar switch ins and make Ferrothorn and Heatran a liability. The reason why I'm more inclined to see a revamp is that it puts so much emphasis on a lot of older meta trends in its write up. Personally my sets orders would be
  • Life Orb Attacker
  • Nasty Plot
  • Mixed Attacker (Defiant variant)
  • Stall-Breaker (Volt Switch, HP Ice / Grass Knot, Taunt, Thunder Wave variant)
Victini: CMS

No mention of Trick anywhere especially for its Choice Band set.

Zapdos: CMS

Needs speed mention for checking stuff like Mega Scizor and Bisharp more effectively. A tone down on the whole being an inferior BP user would be nice and a mention of Life Orb Agility would be nice as well.

Everything else I either missed, didn't think highly of it, or didn't think it was important. The key thing about all of this is that before any of this goes through or is even considered in regards to the revamp portions, Charizard, Gliscor, Gyarados, Lando-T, and Torn-T should be on site. They're pretty important and need to be done. The others are important as well obviously but these things are big enough threats where their analysis , especially Zard holy damn that needs to be up like now, have to be there.

Thanks n_n
 
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Karxrida

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Can Rotom-W also have its 8 SpD EVs moved to Speed, please? It beats Adamant Crawdaunt that way and it's not like you're living any specific hits with that investment anyway.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
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I'd be happy to take the Thundurus revamp; I was actually going to suggest a revamp for it but got busy with other stuff and forgot. Not sure wheher to post this here or in the reservatrion thread though, this felt more appropriate since Thundurus hasn't been mentioned in the other thread yet.
 
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AM
My list order would personally be this.
  • Offensive Dragon Dance
  • Defensive Dragon Dance
  • Support
  • Special Attacker
Special Attacker > Support IMO. Support is cool and all, but I often find that when I want a defensive Mega for the types of teams it fits on, I tend to go with Mega Sableye or something instead. When I do use Mega Altaria on defensive teams, I find myself leaning towards the DDD set since it can still take hits and support the team with Heal Bell while also serving as a solid win condition as well. Meanwhile, the Special Attacker set is pretty fun to throw onto a balanced or offensive team to take a few hits, toss around fairly powerful Hyper Voices and Fire Blasts, and even support the team with Heal Bell (which is really fun with something like DD Gyarados that occasionally takes a Scald burn or Prankster Thunder Wave) or lure and KO Heatran with Earthquake or something. Hyper Voice + Fire Blast is also more immediately threatening than Return + Earthquake from what I've seen. I will say that I usually run more SpA and Spe though, although the exact amount depends on the team (generally near max).

As for Mega Slowbro, the spread AM mentioned that I use is 252 HP / 36 Def / 136 SpA / 80 SpD / 4 Spe. For those that don't know, you have enough physical bulk to escape the 2HKO from Charizard X's +1 Dragon Claw, enough special bulk to escape the 2HKO from Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock, and enough SpA investment to hit a jump point and only be ~8% weaker than a max SpA variant. I usually throw the leftover 4 EVs into Spe to beat things like uninvested Amoonguss, Reuniclus, and other [Mega] Slowbro (although your ability to beat some of these depends on the your exact set and the situation at hand), although it can really be moved anywhere else besides HP and Atk. One interesting tidbit is that the standard 12 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine can't 2HKO 80 SpD Mega Slowbro with Freeze Dry, but 16 SpA variants require 84 SpD to completely escape the 2HKO. I know the standard is 12 SpA and I don't think there's really a reason to run 16 SpA, but I've seen people use it occasionally (possibly because it's the default set listed on PS's damage calculator), but it's probably not much of a concern. Unless there's some other benchmark you could hit with those 4 EVs, it's probably best to leave those 4 EVs in Spe to beat uninvested base 30s.

I'm good with / don't care either way about most of the other stuff though. ^_^
 

AM

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Agent Gibbs The reason why I think Support > Special Attacker is because Support has the ability to consolidate that role of Special Attacker while maintaining bulk and still being able to fire off powerful Hyper Voices and its clerical utility exceeds in my eyes a set that is known to be prone to the majority of offensive teams and the lack of bulk is noticeable to the point where it can actually cost you games, for the comparison of those two general sets. Support M-Altaria can be catered in ways to provide a defensive switch in to some very dangerous threats in the meta-game, the same kind of defensive utility that DDD provides but for more defensive minded teams. I think Offensive DD should be the first one because everyones counter measure to Mega Altaria right now is based on it's running mono attacking and using Mega Scizor and Jirachi as their checks, when 2 attacks is much harder to prepare for outside of banking on it's not running the certain coverage move or having a specialized answer to it such as Air Balloon Heatran.

Yeah that M-Slowbro spread. Thanks.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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Did Azumarill, Gardevoir, Keldeo, Slowbro.

Here is a quick list of the mons which still need CMS updates:
Blastoise (maybe)
Gengar
Manectric
Porygon2 [a spread should probably be decided on by qc]
Raikou
Serperior
Reuniclus
Terrakion
Victini
Zapdos
 

p2

Banned deucer.
Did Azumarill, Gardevoir, Keldeo, Slowbro.

Here is a quick list of the mons which still need CMS updates:
Blastoise (maybe)
Gengar
Manectric
Porygon2 [a spread should probably be decided on by qc]
Raikou
Serperior
Reuniclus
Terrakion
Victini
Zapdos
I did Victini, but I forgot to slash Trick at the time so I fixed that, but I don't think it has been implemented yet.
 

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