Omg another rain dance team =)

[BidoofTheWise]

Well, everyone seems to try this theme at least once, and so far I think I could say I have had reasonable success with it. Still, I might as well post it hear and see what you guys think. I am open to about any criticism, so go ahead and take a good shot at my self-esteem =) Thanks!!

Previous team member(s):

(yea, I know he's still there, I'm still deciding whether to switch him for Rotom W or Bronzong)

Btw, I know Azelf is not original, so any good tips can start with viable replacements, because I am willing to try anything.

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Rain Dance
- Explosion

The typical rain dance starter. Usually I follow the Taunt+Stealth Rock, then rain dance. Usually he won't make it beyond that, but that's ok. I will switch him out if he has decent health for a surprise explosion later on. I decided to make him more speed focused to help outrace some other starters people might not be expecting, including other starters. I would open with taunt for starters that I know it can outspeed,including Gliscor, Roserade, Swampert, and Metagross. For Ninjask, I will use taunt, so as to stop it from baton passing. Then I will use rain dance, and continue based on what goes on, usually using explosion since most ninjask hold left overs. Jirachi is my team's kryptonite, I think. I would really appreciate a tip for that. As for Ttar, I usually switch in with Kingdra, as most people will fear that I will knock out the Ttar, while I will merely set up a rain dance.
---

Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet

Kabutops is my physical sweeper. However, I will try to switch him in only after a rain dance, especially set up by Azelf, so I can SD and then sweep physically. Waterfall is my main attack, getting both a STAB and Rain Dance both, as well as decent type coverage. I decided to use Life orb since counters are usually brought in quickly, so I would rather get a guaranteed OHKO w/ the orb and SR. Unfortunately, jolteon I have seen too often sent out, so I switch in my Kingdra, who can take an attack, and quickly strike back when it is raining. He works especially well on Blissey, with a OHKO from a stone edge. I am thinking of removing the rain dance, since Kabutops can't take the damage. There used to be an X Scissor for the 4th slot, but I never used it enough for it to matter. Aqua jet was a good suggestion, and I am pretty sure it will stay.
---

Scizor (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Technician
EVs: 176 HP/252 Atk/80 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U Turn
- Rain Dance


I originally had Scizor as a phsyical attacker who would not be reliant on the rain, in case the rain does stop. As others have pointed out, though, a rain dancer might be more helpful for the team. Instead of having a pokemon who is there in case of no rain, I'll just make sure that there is NO chance for any lack of rain. The HP EVs are to help it last a bit longer to set up rain dance, while the attack EVs help if I need to use deal damage, with bullet punch compensating for a lack of speed EVs, which were put to a minimum. Rain dance is set up, and then U Turn can be used for a free turn to sweep. He is still great for attracting Fire types, who are now weakened by RD, or I switch in a water type and soak it up while getting a OHKO the next turn. Roost, of course, is to make sure he can last longer, so leftovers are no longer needed, and can hold a damp rock instead.
---

Gengar (M) @ Whatever =P
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Focus Blast

Gengar is probably my favorite pokemon ever. With rain dance, thunder rarely misses, and people do not always expect a Gengar to be using thunder, expecting much more a focus blast, shadowball, or HP fire. He has very good speed, allowing for very nice opportunities with sweep. He is also very good against TTar, especially with Substitute up, which gives Gengar a chance to hit with focus blast if Ttar has Choice scarf. If not, it gives me a second chance in case of a miss. Levitate is also a very good plus for me, as I know a lot of people like to use Earthquake. Often, I like to switch in Gengar on obvious switch ins, to give me a turn to set up substitute while the opponent switches. Thunder then works wonders. He is a bit fragile, so I do not get to use him as much as I do like.

---

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 224 Atk / 226 Sp Atk / 60 Spd
Naughty nature (+Atk, -Sp Def)
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Water fall
- Draco Meteor

Here's a bit of a different mixed rain dancer. In this case, there are extra speed EVs so I can focus more on sweeping, and less on decding on whether to switch out b/c a possible counter could outspeed my Kingdra. the EVs actually give it enough speed in rain for the equivalent stat of 442. As for moves, I decided to put a bit more luck than what I usually desire by using Hydro Pump since I sacrificed some Sp. EVs. The same goes for Draco meteor. I decided to again stick with a life orb because of the sweeps. When one is set up, I do not need too many turns to at the very least weaken the other team greatly. By the time my kingdra is down to low hp, I would usually set up a new rain dance for my next sweep (Kabutops), or I would take the last guy down with me, depending on the situation.

---

Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 196 Spe
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot / Energy Ball
- Surf
- Rain Dance

Now my final pokemon: Ludicolo. Most people, when dealing with ludicolo, expect another swift swimmer. Before, they would have been wrong; I guess not so anymore :P . People have been suggesting that I do not interrupt my flow of attacks by using the subspeed variation. As much as I did enjoy it, it only ultimately did not work on enough pokemon as I would have wished (though Flygon did fear me :D ). As such, this is the more offensive, speedier version meant to have better type coverage with more slots dedicated to attacks, as well more attacking power. As for Grass Knot vs energy ball, I have yet to decide which one I'll stick to, so I'll see which one will serve me more after a bit more testing.
---

 

[ginganinja]

Firsly Welcome to smogon!

Secondaly while I hate mini-mod ing you may need to expand your descriptions a little more (esp kabutops). Just some advice

Anyway now that that is out of the way I will begin the rate!

Well if you don't like azelf (even though he works great) then a Rain Jirachi lead can fucton well over Azelf.
Most of the team is fine however you lose to a BLissey with Azelf Exploding on it, Scizor and Kabutops are your only options. While this sounds like you have Blissey covered, the popular skarmbliss combo walls this team and you have no answer it it. I suggest a mixKingdra to break through stall to begin with. MixKing hits very hard and can still function on the special side if you need it to. Next I suggest you making scizor a rain dance supporter rather than a SD set. Scizor is very usefull to rain teams as it kills tyranitar which can stop rain very easily. The rain supporter set has enough bulky to survive throughout the battle and set up rain as you need it to.

I thnk that Kabutops should run Aqua jet or X-scissor over Rain dance as Kabutops will rarely find the time to SD and rain Dace and kabutops rally wants a SD boost.

Lastly Gengar could br replaced with a Rotom W. Rotom W gets STAB on thunder and has a Boosted Hydro Pump to use. It can also set up rain for your sweepers.

Have a Nice Day!

 

[haunter]

Descriptions have been fixed. Bump.

 

[vashta]

Good team. Only a few changes. Firstly, I really think that Ludicolo is slowing down the offensive pace that this team relies on to be successful. By slowing down this pace, you are really allowing your opponent to recover from whatever onslaught they may have been subject to prior to Ludicolo's introduction to the game. I would like to suggest that you change Ludicolo's set to the standard offensive set because it maintains the offensive barrage that the rest of your team appears to keep as a consistent theme, but also utilizes Rain Dance far more effectively in terms of how this team, in general, interprets rain's presence.

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Grass Knot / Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance

Furthermore, consider substituting Gengar for Rotom-W, as suggested by the poster above me. This is for a simple reason: you have a lot of problems with Gyarados. If it sets up on Scizor, then you could be in for a bumpy ride as you will have to rely on Kabutops to revenge kill for you - and I'm sure, if the opponent is smart and switches out against Kabutops until later - this is an unreliable strategy. Rotom-W provides you with bulk, but also a good sweeper also. I would suggest using:

Rotom-W @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest or Timid Nature
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump

Finally, consider changing Scizor's EVs to 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe; you maintain full Attacking force, but the HP EVs invested allow you to take hits from Latias much easier, especially needed if rain stops. Therefore, you may also wish to consider using Roost > Bug Bite or whatever for durability purposes, but at the cost of a turn of rain -- not too much of a sacrifice, though. Considering Mixed Kingdra, as suggested by the rater above, is also a good preposition; especially seeing as you're almost forced to switch out when dealing with defensive threats that are purely defensive or specially defensively orientated, which means you are forced to switch around much more. Mixed Kingdra deters threats and also draws in spectrum-specific Pokémon, then potentially kill them at benefit to your other teammates.

 

[BidoofTheWise]

I appreciate the suggestions greatly. I have yet to try them out, but I got a question: Would the Rotom-W be a good counter for Jirachi? Jirachi has proven to be able to take out a huge portion of my team, and I want to be sure I can fight it. I can't seem to do damage on the Flinch Jirachi, and others seem to absorb my attacks. I guess the mixed Kingdra will help, but I just want to be sure.

 

[ginganinja]

Rotom deals wel with Jirachi authough will-o-wisp would prove useful when using rotom as Jirachi hate burns in general

 

[azntrumpet]

I think you need another dedicated Rain Dancer. As a whole this team is rather frail and slow without Rain, so I think a bulky Rain Dancer like Bronzong, Jirachi, or Zapdos would work well over Gengar or Scizor. I would even advise replacing the other one as well. Between these two replacements, you need a way of dealing with fast STAB Thunderbolts, Taunt Aerodactyl/Crobat, Thunder Wave, ScarfTar and Vaporeon, all of which wreck your team. I'll try to get back to you later on replacements, I'm too tired right now.

 

[BidoofTheWise]

It's been a while since I have been on this thread, but I have an idea I want to suggest before trying anything. SInce people are now predicting too well Azelf (seriously, sometimes its almost as if it's liability because of prediction), I was thinking maybe a trickscarf lead. It would be great for other SR leads, while outspeeding anti leads with STAB psychic. I can set up a rain dance if I trick, and if not, I will keep a revenge killer for later. Any opinions? As for those other suggestions, I will edit them into the thread most likely later today.

 

[ginganinja]

I really don't like a trick scarf Lead, mainly because you cannot run Damp Rock which limits the amount of turn that you can put your opponent on the back foot.
What do you mean by "predicting too well"?

 

[BidoofTheWise]

People are starting to anticipate too much the azelf lead (or maybe I just had a string of bad luck). People are ready for Azelf leads now, and have adjusted to counter it, or are using azelf as well and creating a speed tie. That, and the lead ScarfTar kills me and does not allow me a chance to set up. Maybe something with more bulk I'm just saying is that people are too aware of Azelf. Azelf is great for Wi Fi battles though

 

[ginganinja]

Well Uxie and Jirachi can still work although they are slightly slower but bulkier leads. If you want a slightly faster lead Crobat makes for a giood one as it has the same speed as Aerodactyl has a fast taunt, and can set up Rain for the team.

 

[chomp]

You can try using electrode for a lead. Rain Dance first turn and explosion the next turn. Then you can send in kabutops in with no worries. Unless they use Stealth Rocks/Spikes or if they survive.

 

[Xyra]

Go for Electrode as lead. I use one on my RD team.
140 Base Speed lets you taunt even Aerodactyl leads. You get Rain the first turn, and either a free switch in the second ( without explosion ) or the third (incase you get to explode).

Azelf is too common nowadays. Plus Aerodactyl leads screw up your whole strategy of setting up Rain Dance.

 

[BidoofTheWise]

I am liking the look of Electrode. I guess I lose the SR bonus, but it isn't necessary, right? If I do decide to use the Electrode, should I work in a Starmie for rapid spin? Before, I could justify allowing SR to exist against my team since I had it setup on theirs as well. The other side to the arguement though may be that I should not have to switch too often with this team for it to matter, right? I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

[ginganinja]

I am not sure about the Electrode lead. You win vs Azelf (survive psychic and can explode after rain is up) Azelf gets rocks up though and vs Aerodactyl (gets rocks up though) but you lose to Swampert, Metagross and Machamp. You get rain up, but in the case of Swampert you have a full health Swampert, and you are forced to go to Ludicolo to scare it off. Metgross is even worse. If it runs Earthquake and Bullet Punch it screws with you. You get rain up but you cannot OHKO it with any of your team while it can KO Kabutops and Gengar with Bullet Punch while denting Kingdra and Scizor with Earthquake. Not to mention that it can also cary explosion, which threatens your reain sweepers. Machamp is not great either. You stil get rain up but again, Machamp stands up to everyone of your attacks and will cripple at least one before it goes down. Gengar gets hit my payback or Bullet Punch, Kingdra, Scizor and Ludicolo hate Dynamic Punch and Kabutops must watch out for Bullet Puch and Dynamic Punch. I guess its a bit of chose your poison really but the team is really threatened by Metagross and Machamp especially if you run Electrode. Not to meantion you lose SR as well.

EDIT think that you are better off with a Mixed or Physical Kingdra instead over you current one since it is walled by Blissey

 

[Venetian Masque]

Now I'm not the absolute greatest Rain Dance team user (although they're my favorite type of team), but in my experience with them, I find that keeping a continuous offense is the almost always the best way to go. Therefore, I would personally like to avoid wasting a turn of the Rain just to use Rapid Spin. On an offensive Rain-oriented team, Stealth Rocks and (Toxic) Spikes generally aren't enough of a concern when you typically out-pace most of the opposing Pokémon and either OHKO them outright with some boosted attacks or severely damage them.

I do suggest, however, that you invest in a dedicated Stealth Rock user of your own. They are very necessary, in my opinion, to ensure that you net some rather important OHKOs/2HKOs on certain Pokémon. Bronzong (over Gengar) could fit that role nicely, as well as setting up the Rain/Reflect and Exploding when it has served its purpose, clearing the way for one of your sweepers.

With Bronzong using Rain Dance, you can free up a moveslot for Scizor and make him a backup sweeper who is not especially reliant on the Rain. U-Turn and Rain Dance is a bit hard to pass up, but I don't feel it's too necessary, although that might be debatable. Regardless, you could give Scizor either Swords Dance in that slot or you could slap a Life Orb on him and use Roost (or whatever you want, really).

I think you should definitely use vashta's Ludicolo suggestion, although I'd lean more towards Energy Ball for consistent base damage (mostly for Vaporeon), personally, but Grass Knot is nice for things like Suicune and Gyarados. Also, I'd remove Rain Dance on Kingdra and give it Hidden Power Electric to help take on Gyarados, as well as other water types, such as Empoleon. With Stealth Rock, that only helps guarantee that non-specially defensive Celebi will see its demise when struck with a Signal Beam.

Finally, I'd probably get rid of X-Scissor on Kabutops. It looks nice on paper, but some of the Pokémon you may plan to use it on (namely certain bulky Grass types) will occasionally be able to survive an X-Scissor and hit you hard with a 4x damaging Grass attack. That is, assuming you didn't already have a Swords Dance boost. Honestly, I think Kabutops should avoid battling most Grass types anyway. I'd prefer Aqua Jet over it to give it some added STAB priority to further compliment Kabutops' seemingly revenge killer role.

I hope you find some of my advice was of use. Good luck and have fun.

 

[KarateF22]

I'd run roost over bug bite on scizor. Sure, the extra damage can be nice.... but Scizor is, most likely, your most reliable rain dancer due to his typing. Also, giving him a Damp rock with the move set BP / U-Turn / Rain Dance / Roost and possibly more bulk over attack would make him even harder for your opponent to get rid of.

A spread i once used on a Rain Dance team went something like this....

Scizor @ Damp Rock
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SDef

Bullet Punch
U-turn
Rain Dance
Roost

Makes him have balanced and bulky defenses, and he can survive anything magnezone throws at him.... assuming he rain dances on the switch. Can setup a long rain dance though, which is his most important role.

 

[BidoofTheWise]

Whoops, I actually did implement some of these suggestions, just forgot to update the thread. I have replaced gengar with Rotom-W, but I have only tried him once. I have used Bronzong before. Both are bulky, and are great rain dancers. They both have good typing (though Bronzong technically on this team has no weaknesses). As for replacing some of the rain dances with other moves (like HP electric on Kingdra) when I finish revising the team, and I can see how many rain dancers I have.

 

[GaRgAnt]

You know what?

Screw Gengar. You need Rain Roserade.

Roserade @ Damp Rock
Natural Cure
4 HP/252 Speed/252 Special Attack
Timid

-Toxic Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Rain Dance
- Sleep Powder

Sleep gives you free turns to set up rain. Plus, it puts pressure on Blissey and Vaporeon and defensive Celebi, three of the most common Rain counters via Toxic Spikes. Blissey won't die to a non-Swords Dance Waterfall and can cripple Kabutops in return with Thunder Wave or Toxic which wears down sweeping time.

On Ludicolo- Change it to Swords Dance Ludicolo.

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
252 Attack/164 Speed/92 HP
Adamant

-Swords Dance
-Waterfall
-Seed Bomb
-Ice Punch

This is not a joke; you will officially rape anything that expects you to be an all special variant, which most players do, and often more than not are correct on.

They send in Blissey, when you Swords Dance.

They go, "Uhh, it can't OHKO me..."

And then you Waterfall. OHKO buddy.

They send in Gyarados. They laugh, and DD.

You Swords Dance that turn.

Then, you proceed to destroy with STAB Seed Bomb. You'll still outspeed all Gyarados with the EVs after a Dragon Dance.

 

[Venetian Masque]

I've always utilized at most three Rain Dancers in my teams (one of which is Bronzong equipped with a Damp Rock), and I honestly believe that was more than enough. I'd go as far to say that even using just two is fine, but they'd both have to have a rather high degree of resiliency.

Honestly, you should probably avoid using Rain Dance on your sweepers as that leaves some of them open for a powerful counter-attack once they have to set it up again (considering most Rain sweepers are built to be strong and fast, but often left frail -- furthermore, once the Rain comes down, your sweeper is at a disadvantage), as well as also being a somewhat predictable move. Also, it limits your sweeper's coverage or alternative options.

If you haven't already, you should probably look over the Rain Offensive Guide to perhaps better help you to make decisions for your team. I believe it is still regularly updated, so most of the information should still be relevant/accurate.

Of course, you don't have to follow my advice word-for-word, if at all. I just hope it was useful for you.

 

[GaRgAnt]

Kingdra is the only Swift Swimmer that can double as both a Rain Dancer and Sweeper.

Do you REALLY need Draco Meteor, besides mashing other Kingdras? The combo of Ice Beam, Surf/Hydro Pump, and Hidden Power Electric means instant ban on pretty much half the metagame in rain. Just an opinion. The fourth moveslot can be handed to Rain Dance.

 

[Venetian Masque]

Kingdra is indeed bulky, but I personally feel it best fits the role of staying on the offensive in a Rain team. I agree Kingdra doesn't need Draco Meteor, but the set BidoofTheWise is using it in originates from the original post as the mixed sweeper variant (although I believe they switched to the special variant seeing as BidoofTheWise is now testing Hidden Power Electric).

Kingdra's last slot could go to Rain Dance, but I feel Signal Beam deserves higher a mention. Surf/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam (I prefer Dragon Pulse for the often neutral STAB, personally), and Hidden Power Electric does handle most Pokémon quite well, but Signal Beam is good for hitting Celebi, Abomasnow (an uncommon sight, I admit), and opposing Ludicolo.

 

[BidoofTheWise]

Yea, I have decided to keep Kingdra as a mixed attacker. As for Ludicolo, as enticing as making him a physical attacker is for the surprise factor (and effectiveness), I already have physical attacks covered with Kabutops, Scizor, and Kingdra. That leaves mainly Ludicolo to be my special sweeper, since Rotom (or Bronzong) will be support. There is one moveset for a lead Uxie that looks interesting; maybe someone can give a second opinion?

Uxie @ Choice Scarf
Bold
252 HP, 104 Def, 152 Spe
- Trick
- Rain Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Memento

Trick allows Uxie to outspeed and then trap the Aerodactyls that have been so troubling, while allowing most other leads to be stuck with one of their setup moves. It will allow me a turn to set up SR with the switch, I absorb the attack to rain, then go out with a bang with Memento, giving me a chance again to set up on the switch.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

As a very experienced rain dance user, I would say to switch damp rock on Azelf to focus sash. I know that the extra three rain turns are very tempting, but having stealth rock and rain, or rain+explosion is much more valuable. I would also switch taunt to psychic, as stealth rock isn't that hindering to a rain team.

I would also switch gengar to rotom-w for sure, I am running that rotom suggested a few posts above, and it works great.

I would also go for a 4/252/252 spread on ludicolo, as in rain you just want maximum power, not longlivity.

Anyways, great team, and its nice to see a fellow rain dance user!

 

[GaRgAnt]

^ Stealth Rock helps insure KOs much better than without. Without Stealth Rock, Ludicolo's Surf cannot OHKO Scizor with 248 HP 100% of the time even in rain. Kingdra has better odds, but better safe than sorry when it U-turns the crap out of you.