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Official "I want to edit an analysis" thread (read first post)
- Thread starter chaos
- Start date
You're right about the Nido's resistance. Also, CBSkarm was so shocking when it OHKOed my T-Tar. Tackle Mudkip...
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
Psych Up Blissey should have Lucky Punch as an optional hold item to increase its CH rate against CMing Kyogres.
yep, thick club is the only species specific item that works for all forms.
fixed the beedrill bit
I'm surprised no1 has mentioned the idea of getting a "Pseudo-ADV" (Shadow Tag) Wobbuffet by BPing a Mean Look to it. Very gay, but meh, it could work.
BTW this is in GSC
Example:
Turn 1: Nidoking used Ice Beam (33% Damage)
Umbreon used Mean Look.
2: Nidoking used Ice Beam (34% Damage)
Umbreon Baton Passes to Wobbuffet.
Just a random example. ML-Passing with Encore would be VERY cool, with, say, Smeargle, but that really would be hard to pull off. This would be added to part of Umbreon's guide (best look-passer IMO) on the Mean Look-Pass moveset.
Novelty because you would only be able to take out one pokemon using this...
BTW this is in GSC
Example:
Turn 1: Nidoking used Ice Beam (33% Damage)
Umbreon used Mean Look.
2: Nidoking used Ice Beam (34% Damage)
Umbreon Baton Passes to Wobbuffet.
Just a random example. ML-Passing with Encore would be VERY cool, with, say, Smeargle, but that really would be hard to pull off. This would be added to part of Umbreon's guide (best look-passer IMO) on the Mean Look-Pass moveset.
Novelty because you would only be able to take out one pokemon using this...
It should probrably be mentioned that the Pure attacker set for Tyranitar works very well in Ubers. 101 HP Subs, HP Bug for Psychics, Focus Punch for Bliss and company, and Rock Slide for everything else. I have tested it and it is now a staple on my Uber team.
At least add Substitute for options on Shuckle...the Subs aren't usually broken in one hit w/o boosting, so it might be able to do...stuff...in the meantime. Yes, I have used it. Yes, I think Shuckle tastes like frog legs with an extra dousing of butter.
And since Shuckle's a novelty Pokemon anyway, might as well add CB Shuckle on there too. Gag.
And since Shuckle's a novelty Pokemon anyway, might as well add CB Shuckle on there too. Gag.
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
Shuckle subs aren't that hard to break if your attack is coming off a reasonable attacking stat or NVE.
A few possible suggestions after toying around with various pokémon...
ARTICUNO: I understand the wonders of Resttalking Articuno with a phazing move on a spikes team, but Reflect should really be put in consideration on the RestTalking set over Roar. I've been playing with Ice Beam/Reflect/Sleep Talk/Rest, and the thing is amazing. It provides Reflect support for your team, and absolutely nothing kills it. With a Reflect up, Adamant CB Dugtrio's Rock Slide deals ~35%, only to face a KO from Ice Beam. This, by the way, is with max HP/Calm nature and only 24 EVs in Defense.
PERSIAN: Speaking of said Adamant Dugtrio, in the guide Persian is said to be countered by Dugtrio. However, even with no HP or defensive EVs, Persian only takes about 75% from Adamant Dugtrio, which it outspeeds. In turn, a Jolly Persian will always 2HKO with Return (even without a CB). Even versus a Jolly Dugtrio, which outspeeds Persian, Persian can survive the EQ and answer with a Hypnosis, neutralizing the opponent's Duggy. Also, Dugtrio really can't switch in to Persian, since it doesn't have a way to KO.
Continuing with Persian, Spite should be listed as a possible move over Shadow Ball on the first set. While granted this leaves you vulnerable against ghosts, Persian's shadow ball is too weak to trade blows with Banette's HP Fighting in UU, and the other ghosts can be hit with Hypnosis. Spite coming from a 361 speed, however, is fabulous. The only time Shadow Ball seems occasionally more useful is when bringing it in to OU play, where it 2HKOs Gengar, who would normally 2HKO with Thunderbolt or Sludge Bomb but fails thanks to Persian's better speed.
ALTARIA: An excellent alternative to DragonClaw on the first Altaria set is Toxic.
Even with a significant EV investment, Altaria does not really pack any power with Dragon Claw/Fire Blast thanks to that base 70 SpAtt. However, replacing Dragon Claw with Toxic allows you to dedicate your EVs defensively, and actually manages to really do something against most pokémon in the UU environment. Fire Blast or Flamethrower would then be limited mostly to super-effective situations, namely steels and grass/poisons that otherwise would be immune to Toxic. Obviously Toxic and Sing won't be great together (although Singing, and then Toxic on the switch can always be nice), but I've played with Toxic/Flamethrower/Perish Song/Rest, and it has worked well.
Also, Psych Up should probably make its way onto the "Other Options" list for Altaria. With that meaty 105 SpDf, Altaria can easily switch into most of the Calm Minders in the UU environment, Psych Up, and then either Roar them away or Toxic them.
And finally...
REGIROCK: In the very first set, for the Physical Attacker Regirock, Counter is an excellent option over Focus Punch. Regirock takes ~60% from CBmence's Earthquake (and, accordingly, the same from DDmence with one DD up), making
Counter a far more surefire way to deal with it than HP Rock, which even in the best of situations will not OHKO. It also solves the problems that set has with grounds like Steelix, Donphan, and Flygon who are immune to Thunder Wave, resist HP Rock, and will probably play aggressively to avoid the Focus Punch.
ARTICUNO: I understand the wonders of Resttalking Articuno with a phazing move on a spikes team, but Reflect should really be put in consideration on the RestTalking set over Roar. I've been playing with Ice Beam/Reflect/Sleep Talk/Rest, and the thing is amazing. It provides Reflect support for your team, and absolutely nothing kills it. With a Reflect up, Adamant CB Dugtrio's Rock Slide deals ~35%, only to face a KO from Ice Beam. This, by the way, is with max HP/Calm nature and only 24 EVs in Defense.
PERSIAN: Speaking of said Adamant Dugtrio, in the guide Persian is said to be countered by Dugtrio. However, even with no HP or defensive EVs, Persian only takes about 75% from Adamant Dugtrio, which it outspeeds. In turn, a Jolly Persian will always 2HKO with Return (even without a CB). Even versus a Jolly Dugtrio, which outspeeds Persian, Persian can survive the EQ and answer with a Hypnosis, neutralizing the opponent's Duggy. Also, Dugtrio really can't switch in to Persian, since it doesn't have a way to KO.
Continuing with Persian, Spite should be listed as a possible move over Shadow Ball on the first set. While granted this leaves you vulnerable against ghosts, Persian's shadow ball is too weak to trade blows with Banette's HP Fighting in UU, and the other ghosts can be hit with Hypnosis. Spite coming from a 361 speed, however, is fabulous. The only time Shadow Ball seems occasionally more useful is when bringing it in to OU play, where it 2HKOs Gengar, who would normally 2HKO with Thunderbolt or Sludge Bomb but fails thanks to Persian's better speed.
ALTARIA: An excellent alternative to DragonClaw on the first Altaria set is Toxic.
Even with a significant EV investment, Altaria does not really pack any power with Dragon Claw/Fire Blast thanks to that base 70 SpAtt. However, replacing Dragon Claw with Toxic allows you to dedicate your EVs defensively, and actually manages to really do something against most pokémon in the UU environment. Fire Blast or Flamethrower would then be limited mostly to super-effective situations, namely steels and grass/poisons that otherwise would be immune to Toxic. Obviously Toxic and Sing won't be great together (although Singing, and then Toxic on the switch can always be nice), but I've played with Toxic/Flamethrower/Perish Song/Rest, and it has worked well.
Also, Psych Up should probably make its way onto the "Other Options" list for Altaria. With that meaty 105 SpDf, Altaria can easily switch into most of the Calm Minders in the UU environment, Psych Up, and then either Roar them away or Toxic them.
And finally...
REGIROCK: In the very first set, for the Physical Attacker Regirock, Counter is an excellent option over Focus Punch. Regirock takes ~60% from CBmence's Earthquake (and, accordingly, the same from DDmence with one DD up), making
Counter a far more surefire way to deal with it than HP Rock, which even in the best of situations will not OHKO. It also solves the problems that set has with grounds like Steelix, Donphan, and Flygon who are immune to Thunder Wave, resist HP Rock, and will probably play aggressively to avoid the Focus Punch.
Hrm... that means that either the RSBots are buggy, or his Dugtrio is missing a boatload of EVs:
Hrm... I just ran the damage calc myself, and you're right, it should have done a minimum of 192, which is 50% of my Altaria's max HP. Don't know what's going on, then. Maybe he made a mistake and placed his EVs in the wrong location. That means that what I said about Persian surviving Adamant Dugtrio's CB Earthquake could be wrong as well. Running it through a damage calc...
Yep. Persian should have died to that EQ. I'll have to pass on to AJC that his Dugtrio must be EV'd incorrectly. So, ignore what I said about Persian and Articuno, although Reflect Articuno is still fairly beefy.
The Articuno in question has a Calm nature and an EV spread of 252/0/24/0/96/136. I don't know the EV spread of the Dugtrio in question, but I know it has a CB and it is not Jolly (my Persian outspeeds it, and AJC claims it's an adamant dugtrio).
Hrm... I just ran the damage calc myself, and you're right, it should have done a minimum of 192, which is 50% of my Altaria's max HP. Don't know what's going on, then. Maybe he made a mistake and placed his EVs in the wrong location. That means that what I said about Persian surviving Adamant Dugtrio's CB Earthquake could be wrong as well. Running it through a damage calc...
Yep. Persian should have died to that EQ. I'll have to pass on to AJC that his Dugtrio must be EV'd incorrectly. So, ignore what I said about Persian and Articuno, although Reflect Articuno is still fairly beefy.
- Linoone, Pokemon with Liquid Ooze, Breloom, and - although not so much - Armaldo, should all be listed as Sceptile counters.
- Jirachi, Umbreon, Venusaur, Jumpluff, Scizor, Solrock, Lunatone, Cradily, and lol Mawile should all be listed as Snorlax counters.
- Psych Up is awesome on Umbreon and should be at least mentioned somewhere.
- Torment should be mentioned on Aerodactyl, particularly the pressure set, as it stops most of its counters cold, and helps screw with your opponent's mind while abusing pressure. Torment, Fly, and two of Rock Slide, Protect, Taunt is an idea
- Jirachi, Umbreon, Venusaur, Jumpluff, Scizor, Solrock, Lunatone, Cradily, and lol Mawile should all be listed as Snorlax counters.
- Psych Up is awesome on Umbreon and should be at least mentioned somewhere.
- Torment should be mentioned on Aerodactyl, particularly the pressure set, as it stops most of its counters cold, and helps screw with your opponent's mind while abusing pressure. Torment, Fly, and two of Rock Slide, Protect, Taunt is an idea
don't know if this is the right place for this but can you add more hidden power scenarios, like HP ground on magneton, HP flying on heracross etc.. to the magic stat number's guide?
I just wanted to note a couple of things. One, it says on RS Zapdos that with about 216 EVs, it can do 30-37% damage to Lax. I use max SAtk, but I usually do only about 20-29%. I was confused, so... yeah.
And the other thing is that on the Regirock page, it compares it with Regice, and says Regice has no special resistances. It is however resistant to Ice. This is a small thing, but I don't think an NB community as large and famous as Smogon should even have the smallest of inaccuracies. :P
And the other thing is that on the Regirock page, it compares it with Regice, and says Regice has no special resistances. It is however resistant to Ice. This is a small thing, but I don't think an NB community as large and famous as Smogon should even have the smallest of inaccuracies. :P
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
I think that the RS Zapdos analysis was talking about using Thunder. Also, nobody would be as idiotic as to use Ice Beam on a Regice unless Regice switched in.
I suppose so, Great Sage. But Regice is special wall, and therefore is built to switch in to special hits. And seeing as Ice Beam (or HP Ice) is one of the most common special attacks... Also, besides for STABed Fire moves, no one would be stupid enough to use any sort of special move against Regice unless they've CMed a bunch of times.
Also, who the heck uses Thunder on Zappy?
Also, who the heck uses Thunder on Zappy?
Sorry to double post - I don't know how to edit my posts.
I think Swagger should be an option on Ninjask, if not even to the extent of creating a SwaggerJask moveset. I have used SwaggerJask to a lot of success when used with Magneton.
I think Swagger should be an option on Ninjask, if not even to the extent of creating a SwaggerJask moveset. I have used SwaggerJask to a lot of success when used with Magneton.
@Earthbender: I have seen a few people use Thunder on Zappy. With max modest SAtk it can possibly OHKO Vaporeon. Vaporeon likes to stay in and Ice Beam Zapdoses before switching out. Thunder stops them from really hurting your Zapdos with an Ice Beam, then switching to Blissey for another Ice Beam. Be careful here, misses only increase the problem.
Also, there should be an edit button, that is how to edit.
Swagger is a hax move pretty much. The only Pokemon that hax moves really belong on are annoyers, not BPers like Ninjask.
Also, there should be an edit button, that is how to edit.
Swagger is a hax move pretty much. The only Pokemon that hax moves really belong on are annoyers, not BPers like Ninjask.
Swagger doesn't really do much if you have a better option. Swagger+Psych Up Stantler is fun though.
