NU CCAT Step 4: Playtesting

[dSapper]

Would have never thought of it but Cacturne seems amazing for this team.

 

[breh]

Cacturne is my favorite NU poke. don't use Sub, though. Use SD instead.

also, those EVs are inefficent; 200 HP / 28 Def / 28 SpD is a bit better.

 

[Ninja]

Cacturne

 

[Oh My Biscuits]

I agree with Breludicolo. This IS an offensive team, and a set-up move would be nice. Also, I'm not so sure about this, but is Seed Bomb really the best choice? With it, you get walled by Klinklang who sets up in your face. Low Kick or Drain Punch or maybe even Brick Break could be a better choice because of the type coverage. Also, if you use Drain Punch, you're forced to use Sand Veil though.

 

[Axmaster68]

Cacturne

 

[jake]

I agree with Breludicolo. This IS an offensive team, and a set-up move would be nice. Also, I'm not so sure about this, but is Seed Bomb really the best choice? With it, you get walled by Klinklang who sets up in your face. Low Kick or Drain Punch or maybe even Brick Break could be a better choice because of the type coverage. Also, if you use Drain Punch, you're forced to use Sand Veil though.

I don't think dropping immunity to Water would be worth DP. After all, you're more or less getting in free switches to Slowking as well as stupid stuff like Alomomola.

 

[tennisace]

Slowking crushes Klinklang, we need coverage on Quagsire/Lanturn more. I somewhat agree with SD > Sub but I'll have to think of it more. On the one hand it makes Cacturne more dangerous, on the other it doesn't do much for synergy.

Breludicolo, what do the EVs do?

 

[Oh My Biscuits]

@tennisace: I believe the EVs just optimize Cacturne's bulk.

 

[breh]

@tennisace: I believe the EVs just optimize Cacturne's bulk.

yeah, it's just a bit more efficient than 252 HP / 4 Def.

EDIT: huh, I could have sworn it was more efficient; it was what x-act churned out when I did the cacturne analysis, lol

 

[tennisace]

252 HP/4 Def:

Physical Defense: 344 x 157 = 54008
Special Defense: 344 x 156 = 53664

200 HP/28 Def/28 SpD:

Physical Defense: 331 x 163 = 53953
Special Defense: 331 x 163 = 53953

Slightly less efficient for physical defense, slightly more efficient for special defense. At that point it really doesn't matter at all.

 

[waterwarrior]

With 1 vote for Smeargle, 1 vote for Scolipede, 2 votes for Roselia, and 10 votes for Cacturne, there are now two things:
1. tennisace, stop hacking the poll >.<
2. On a more serious note, EDIT: tennisace has gotten to me too, vote for Sub. We'll have a 24 hour voting period, ending at 10 PM EST tomorrow about the set before we move on to teammate #2

 

[Oh My Biscuits]

Seed Bomb/Sucker Punch/Swords Dance/Spikes for this purpose.

SD > Substitute.

 

[tennisace]

I still think Substitute is better since Cacturne is easily revenge killed or forced out without a Sub. With Sub, you have the option of either using Spikes OR Sucker Punch if you Sub on the switch (assuming you're using Cacture correctly and are switching into Water-types). You have the option because they have to attack to break the Sub (except Encore, but SD gets Encored also).

So: early game, your strategy is to get 1-2 layers of Spikes up while switching in on predicted Water-type attacks, while later, you can Sub then Sucker Punch to soften up the opponent's team for a Slowking sweep.

Cacturne on this team isn't meant to sweep. Vote Substitute.

 

[jake]

^

 

[a fairy]

Sub

 

[LUST]

I still think Substitute is better since Cacturne is easily revenge killed or forced out without a Sub. With Sub, you have the option of either using Spikes OR Sucker Punch if you Sub on the switch (assuming you're using Cacture correctly and are switching into Water-types). You have the option because they have to attack to break the Sub (except Encore, but SD gets Encored also).

So: early game, your strategy is to get 1-2 layers of Spikes up while switching in on predicted Water-type attacks, while later, you can Sub then Sucker Punch to soften up the opponent's team for a Slowking sweep.

Cacturne on this team isn't meant to sweep. Vote Substitute.

 

[waterwarrior]

It appears we are going with the original set for Cacturne, as somewhat expected (the tennistrain is as popular as ever)

Cacturne @ Leftovers
Adamant
Water Absorb
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
-Spikes
-Seed Bomb
-Sucker Punch
-Substitute

Now to move on to teammate 2: physical sweeper

While there are many, many good choices for this slot, but I think we should go with UltraSuperBirdy:
[pimg]277[/pimg]
Swellow @ Flare Orb/Toxic Orb
Jolly
Guts
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Speed
-Protect
-Facade
-Brave Bird
-Quick Attack/ U-Turn

Its a semi-custom moveset, but it works very well. To be honest, while U-Turn is nice for hitting Rock/Steel types for a little damage, I've always found it unnecessary. Pursuit... who even uses that any more? :/

Anyways, on to Swellow itself. I chose it because it has very nice offensive synergy with Slowking. Swellow can rip through a team, and have Slowking to pick up things like Rhydon and Klinklang. -Will expand tomorrow-


We will vote starting Friday at 10:00 PM EST on Teammate 2.

 

[jake]

Swellow's cool and all, but I strongly prefer U-turn > Quick Attack. Consider this: we're using a spikestacking team. Things that wall Swellow: Rhydon, Klinklang. Mons on our team: Slowking, Cacturne. Klinklang would still be a slight issue, but U-turning out to something that handles it well + taking hazards damage will definitely wear it down to the point that it won't be able to wall Swellow any more (and that's what, ~40%? Swellow hits hard...). U-turn provides momentum that we need as well as racking up Spikes damage. It's part of the reason Swellow is really really good.

 

[GrassBlade]

Isn't this NU? Darmanitan is UU.
Edit: Wait, what happened to the post? Great, now this looks weird.

 

[tennisace]

I'd almost rather have Braviary here but thats preference. Also I concur with U-turn > Quick Attack, since what we want this team to have is momentum. We need to create quick mismatches to allow our mons to set up quickly and easily.

If I could suggest an alternative, it would probably be Armaldo in either a Rock Polish or CB set, but I think that can be later on.

 

[Techniloom]

I vote for a Swords Dance Scolipede like this

Hide

Scolipede @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

This set really hits like a truck when it gets going 2HKO everything in the tier after a boost and it's not that hard to get going because of it's great speed allowing it to force out alot of pokemon.

 

[Axa]

My personal vote is for Pinsir. It's got stats in all the right places (Attack, Speed, and enough defenses that it won't die to a light hit), offensively it synergises well with Slowking.

Pinsir@Life Orb
Mold Breaker
Jolly
252atk, 252sped, 4hp
~X-Scissor
~Stone Edge
~Earthquake
~Close Combat/Swords Dance/Stealth Rock

I'm at a toss-up for the fourth slot. Both CC and SD have their merits, and SR is an additional boon to our hazard team- Mold Breaker also allows it to land if the rare case of Natu shows up. SD Pinsir is great for taking out Quagsire, but CC hits hard on Rhydon and Klingklang.

The other option I was thinking of was Rock Polish Torterra, since it can also benefit from TR and avoid the set-up turn from RP. My beef with it would be that it compounds the team's Bug weakness.

 

[Techniloom]

^Wouldn't this set be better?

Hide

Pinsir @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie / Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
- Swords Dance / Stealth Rocks
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat / Earthquake

With this he has perfect coverage and can hit pretty damn hard. Swords Dance or Stealth Rocks is up to you but there are much better Pokemon to set up Stealth Rocks. If you go for Earthquake then use mold breaker to hit levitaters other wise go for Moxie because it is generally better.

Or even a Choice Scarf set with Moxie would be pretty great.

 

[jake]

^Wouldn't this set be better?

Hide

Pinsir @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie / Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
- Swords Dance / Stealth Rocks
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat / Earthquake

With this he has perfect coverage and can hit pretty damn hard. Swords Dance or Stealth Rocks is up to you but there are much better Pokemon to set up Stealth Rocks. If you go for Earthquake then use mold breaker to hit levitaters other wise go for Moxie because it is generally better.

Or even a Choice Scarf set with Moxie would be pretty great.

a) afaik moxie isn't released
b) that's the same set

 

[canno]

Alright, so after my massive fail, I decided to search for another pokemon, and ran into Emboar, who ends up playing a lot like Choice Darma, although a bit slower than him. Then I noticed that we also get a Dark/Psychic/Fighting offensive core, which means that if we use Emboar, our entire team will hit everything neutral with only it's three members.
Of course, his speed is a bit problematic, but that can be solved with a Choice Scarf.
Choice Scarf Emboar

Emboar @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
Flare Blitz
Wild Charge
Superpower
Earthquake

Sadly, he does not get U-Turn. :c
Anyways, Flare Blitz hurts and is main STAB, Wild Charge is for Water-types, Superpower is other STAB and hits almost everything neutrally. EQ is standard Ground-type move. I do not like Head Smash, mainly since we already have 2 attacks that give us recoil, and the other move lowers our stats. EQ would be it's only option that doesn't hurt him or make him switch.