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The mid-December shift was all gains, including two new unbans! Unfortunately, this meta will be short lived compared to the following shift come January, which will be massive. Keep in mind the near future with posts, as we'll have what is hopefully the final major shake up of the generation coming up soon. As always, any one-liners or posts that do not contribute to healthy discussion will be deleted. Use the SQSA thread for questions.
Hey all, the ZU council has decided to vote on Drizzle and each ZUBL Pokemon. These shifts radically change the ZU metagame and crank up the power level, so we want to give ZUBL Pokemon a chance to be reintroduced to the metagame and see how they fare. Keep in mind that this vote is not necessarily an attempt to introduce Pokemon that may balance certain new drops. The metagame is still very new and like everyone else, council members are still building, testing, and watching meta trends to develop opinions.
Remains banned as it did not receive a majority to unban.
Voting sheet to view votes and reasoning. Tagging The Immortal or Marty to implement, thank you. (Also, Bouffalant is currently listed as PU and needs to be implemented on the ZU ladder)
Hello, here are my first thoughts on yesterday's shifts.
I didn't expect this monster to drop in ZU. Imo, it's the most interesting drop as it can run dozens of sets (Choice Band, Swords Dance, Sub Toxic, Rest Cotton Guard, ...) and is immuned to Gourgeist's both STAB, giving ZU an offensive counter to Gourgeist that isn't itemless Gourgeist. Between its insane versatilit, good bulk, and incredible wallbreaking capacities, I think Bouffalant will become one of the best Pokémon in ZU. However, its medicore Speed and bad STAB may save it from ZUBL.
Rain was already powerful last month with Seaking, Beartic, and Whiscash as abusers and Wigglytuff and Meowstic as setters, but it got two incredible Swift Swimmers in Drednaw and Golduck. Golduck is very powerful and can 2HKO 90% of the metagame with Mystical Water Surf under Rain and 2HKO the rest with Psychic / Ice Beam, it can chip most of its checks with Flip Turn turning Surf 2HKOes into OHKOes. Drednaw is even scarier as it has a secondary STAB move to tear apart Water-resists, can bolster its Attack with Swords Dance, and can pick a 4th move to handle Slowpoke, Gourgeist, or Mareanie without risking Stone Edge miss. Rain is under my radar and I think at least one of Golduck and Drednaw will be banned.
A new Fighting-type! Falinks looks very dumb on paper, No Retreat turns it into a fast and powerful cleaner, and thanks to its wide coverage (Zen Headbutt, Megahorn, Throat Chop, Poison Jab, Rock Slide) it can break through Fighting-resists such as Mareanie, Musharna, Dusclops, Rapidash, and Vespiquen. For the time being, I don't know yet if Falinks is one of these attackers that pick its answers or one of those that have 4mss, the formers are usually banworthy while the latters are usually underwhelming. Just like the previous Pokémon, I'll keep Falinks under my radar, but unlike them I don't think it will be broken.
On paper, it's faster and physically bulkier than Bouffalant but less powerful and specially bulky. Imo, it will be less good than Bouffalant, but still viable. If Bouffalant gets eventually banned, I expect Dubwool to shine in the tier and replace all its sets.
iirc there is no reason to use Gourgeist, because Gourgeist-Large and Small can get all its possible spreads. Gourgeist-Large was already one of the best Pokémon in ZU, even with Bouffalant's arrival, it should remain good and getting 2 new forms just gives it more versatility by unlocking new spreads.
ZU has waited for it for so long. However, ZU now also has Magmar that is faster and also has great coverage. Magmar doesn't fully outclass Heatmor, since the latter has access to Sucker Punch and Knock Off, but imo, Magmar will be the privileged choice for a Fire-type.
Last time ZU had Mareanie, I wanted it banned since Toxic Spikes were overcentralazing. However, now ZU has Hattrem, more boots users, and more hazard removers, therefore I'm confident that Mareanie won't be as oppressive as in beta. Overall, Mareanie will do the same thing as last gen and will be a great defensive pivot.
It's really enjoyable to have more than one Steel-type (Klang), we already got Metang 10 days ago, but Mawile gives us even more variety and can switch into Knock Off, thus switch into Linoone and Klang unlike Metang and Klang.
Very threatening. It's one of the fastest Pokémon available, it has great Atk and SpA, boosting options, and great coverage. It's probably broken.
Don't use it, it stinks.
Charjabug beats Hattrem and can pivot, thus Shuckle may not outclass it. However, I think Shuckle is gonna be the premier HO lead.
Silvally-Rock looks really good, but will face competition from Lycanroc and Stonjourner. However, Silvally-Bug looks garbage like last time we had it. I hate to have to guess which Silvally form my opponent is using, but I don't think that having 3 forms in that bad.
Yep, it's that time of the month again! First Impressions! (rip , retired now)
This shift was huge, so let's talk about the new mons
GORSE IS ZU. Yep, gorse is zu. Rapidash-Galar is a powerhouse and its wide variety of sets make it #1 in my watchlist as of now. I don't think it has been overbearing so far but it definitely has potential to join Ludicolo on ZUBL. Physical and Special set defensive checks don't really overlap, with stuff like Mareanie and Klang handling special sets better, and Mawile and Gourgeist-L handling physical sets better. There's also potential in grass terrain builds, although the loss of Trevenant is really big for those types of teams
#2 on watchlist right here. Falinks is a very versatile offensive threat that can run 4 attacks LO/CB/Scarf, No Retreat (boosts speed which makes it harder to revenge), SD 3 attacks which makes it a pain to offensively check reliably although it doesnt really get through Gourgeist-L, Mareanie, Shiinotic and Musharna comfortably unless it runs the right coverage, and its speed tier makes it easy prey to faster scarfers such as Mr. Mime and Lycanroc-Midnight, especially with CC's drops. First Impression is also incredible utility for a fighting type.
Big Bouff is back in ZU, and its a bigger threat than ever. This one gets the #3 on the list since its checks are all very set dependant aside from Rest Pyukumuku and Haze Clops. Its speed is still as crippling as ever and stuff like Falinks, Stonjourner, and Dubwool keep it in check for now. Its ability is incredible for offensive builds though, since it completely shuts down offensive Gourgeist variants due to the dual immunity and also makes it a good Spore/Leech Seed absorber.
I expected Rain to dominate the metagame as of now with 2 brand new abusers on top of the Seaking and Beartic and our solid setter but I just haven't seen it be anything more than decent. We should keep an eye on the playstyle as of now but it seems to be a healthy playstyle. Outside of rain, Drednaw is insteresting as it has a deadly STAB combination, SD and a solid speed tier (also some cool Jaw Lock memes). It also has some potential as a lead in HO builds a la Sudowoodo but I don't really see why you'd run this over Dugtrio or Shuckle. Golduck is an interesting offensive Water that can punish Mareanie with Psychic (unlike Politoed) and has access to Flip Turn, making it somewhat of a Special variant of Seaking.
The sheep seems like a very scary wincon in this metagame, although some of its checks like Mareanie dropped alongside it. Its speed gives it plenty of setup opportunites and makes the game usually about removing the 1 mon that prevents the sheep from sweeping. I don't think this a problem as of now though since Dubwool's lack of versatility makes it very predictable. It can maybe run a SD set but idk why wouldn't you just run Bouffalant instead in that scenario.
Ah yes, the meanie is back. And it's IMO an incredible addition as of now. Toxic Spikes wars are as good as ever, and Mareanie helps check several new brokens such as Falinks, Dubwool, Silv-Bug, and Grapploct (old broken in this case lol). Mareanie doesn't really like Hattrem but it's not like its super bothered by it either. The bounced Tspikes can be absorbed back and you can easily get a valuable Knock on Hattrem by forcing it in. Mare seems very splashable as of now and I think it'll stay big as long as we have it.
I know we already had Magmar but both of them are really solid Fire-types, and honestly I'm very excited that our best Fire-type is no longer Lampent (which is cute btw). They have similar special coverage but a few different factors that make each equally appealing. Heatmor has access to Knock Off and Giga Drain to make it impossible to switch into, while Magmar is faster, has Teleport and Taunt. Hopefully now Klang is balanced :D
More steels! Both Mawile and Metang seem to be splashable Steel-rockers in this metagame and both of them push Klang aside due to their utility. Maybe now Magnemite will be viable. Steel is obviously a great defensive typing and their neutrality to Fighting makes them less vulnerable to common fighting coverage such as Focus Blast from the Mimes and Close Combat from Lycanroc.
Eh, it does Shuckle things, has been doing it for several gens. Hattrem is important to mention since Charjabug might be actual competition now.
Gourgeist-Small is an incredible offensive threat due to its speed tier. Outspeeding threats such as Pikachu, the Silvallies, Magmar, Falinks, Golduck and so on makes it much more easier to spam Power Whip and Poltergeist, making it a very good revenge killer. Gourgeist-regular is just a useless midground between Small and Large, but I don't see it being used. Gourgeist-Large will still be used on defensive roles though until we get Super.
The Last of the Silvallies is oficially retired now. 2 new (old) forms joined Silvally-Ice and they both seem pretty good. Silvally-Rock will most likely be the defogger the choice, since it isnt weak to Rocks. Offensively, Silvally-Rock gives Lycanroc and Stonjourner some solid competition as offensive Rock-types, being the only Silvally with neutral STAB on Mareanie is interesting though to pressure builds relying on Haze Mareanie to keep setup sweepers in check. Silvally-Bug looks like an interesting pivot since it can pressure stuff like Musharna, while also acting as a Falinks/Grapploct check.
- ZUBL has been mostly freed (RIP Ludicolo), and honestly all 3 mons seem like good additions to this metagame. Lycanroc is a solid breaker that got a few more checks in stuff like Dubwool, Mawile, Silvally-Rock and the reintroduced Grapploct. It seems like a viable CB/Scarf user as well. Musharna is the one I'm more on the fence about, since its bulk is still absurd. but the addition of new Steels make it way easier to wall and its 4MSS is still very annoying. Grapploct is getting big competition from Falinks but it seems scary on its own right, but nothing to worry about.
Oh ye this exists, I almost forgot. Luxray seems like a decent breaker somewhat but I just don't see why you'd use this over Pikachu on any serious team.
Winners and Losers
Honestly, pretty much everything that was already in the meta is a loser, since the power creep will only get worse from here on out, but I wanna point out a few contenders for the biggest loser Klang just gained competiton from Metang and Mawile and several new checks such as Mareanie, Heatmor, Dubwool, Magmar, Gabite and Falinks in the last couple weeks. It's likely still a pretty good wincon but its bound to drop several subranks in the VR. Vespiquen is still a decent pivot but there are now several scary breakers it just invites in such as Lycanroc, Heatmor, Drednaw, Silvally-Rock and so on, while also having Mareanie as competition for Tspikes which isnt great since Vespiquen cant absorb Tspikes back, making Vepsiquen lose the tspikes 1v1 vs Mareanie in the long run. This has a lot more to worry about now. Metang and Mawile are very splashable Steel-types that just make its setup life more difficult. Add to that all the priority from the likes of Gourgeist-Small, Falinks, Lycanroc and Grapploct, and the new fire types and you can see that Mime-G has a way harder time in this metagame.
Winners? Hm. I honestly don't think there are many This got Mareanie, Silvally-Rock and the Rain abusers to check in this metagame, but I don't think this is enough to push it hard back into the meta. Hattrem got Mareanie and Shuckle to prey on, but the overall power level of the tier has risen considerably making this maybe not so much of a winner after all. Seaking also seems kinda good here since Knock+Flip Turn is very annoying to switch into and its movepool is overall colourful. With Grapploct, Falinks and the new Silvally-forms it might be able to carve itself a niche back into the meta. Ivysaur also seems a bit less splashable which makes its life easier. With the return of Mareanie as a premier fighting-check AOA Machoke may seem appealing in the next couple weeks. It also has some interesting priority in Bullet Punch that helps it deal with annoying gorses.
See you all in the 2nd shift of the month!
Sorry for the accidental post
Ok so I have been playing a bit more with the new drops and I think this meta is quite fun but certain things to seem troubling right now that I would like to point out:
: This is the best mon in the tier right now in my honest opinion. It can run SD + 3 Attacks, Calm Mind Offensive, Bulky Cam Mind with Kee Berry or Grassy Seed with Grassy Terrain support, Choice Band, and a plethora of more sub-options within the aforementioned sets. While its offensive prowess is not astronomically high (even on the physical side) the thing that makes it so threatening is it's Speed tier in combination with it's coverage that lets it pick and choose it's checks. Not much can check it offensively besides Persian, FakeSpeed Pikachu, Raichu, and ig Dugtrio and Rapidash-G has the right support moves in it's arsenal to turn it into a tremendous threat. This is compounded upon how well it can abuse the amount of Tspike usage goign around thanks to it's ability, letting it somewhat punish Mareanie (although Physical sets need to be really careful of coming into a Scald burn). All in all, Rapidash-G is just an amazing and near perfect offensive threat in ZU that may need some looking into in the near future, which is a shame since it kinda keeps other problematic stuff like Mareanie, Lycanroc-M, and Falinks in check.
: I mainly use setup sets either being SD + 3 Attacks or No Retreat on HO teams, but I also been experimenting with CB sets on bulky offensive teams and Falinks is a big threat with the right team support. It trades the bulk and slightly better coverage that Grapploct has for a better speed tier and ability to punish Defog / Intimidate usage thanks to Defiant. I can see Falinks become an issue down the line especially if stuff like Rapidash-G and Musharna go, but for now I think it's just a great offensive mon that has it's fair share of offensive checks and decent-ish pool of defensive answers as well.
: Rain is broken. Plain and simple. The offensive combo of Drednaw and Golduck just puts too much pressure on typical rain checks like Politoed, Gourgeist-S, and Pyukumuku and I believe the tier just can't handle the amount of flexibility these teams have especially with the extended amount of turns given with Damp Rock. I feel the council should look into banning Damp Rock as they did with Heat Rock so that counterplay can be a bit more achievable without needing to deal with an extended amount of turns that rain is up thanks to Damp Rock.
: This pokemon is very interesting as on one hand I feel it adds a tremendous amount of value to the tier acting as an offensive Gourgeist check, special sponge thanks to it's AV set, offensive breaker with it's CB set, and overall nice stallbreaker with it's Sub+SD set. However, its those last two mentioned sets in particular that may push it over the edge for me. Defensive / balanced teams can really struggle with a Bouffalant behind a substitute and I think the tier just does not have enough breaking power to deal with bulky Bouffalant sets which in turn can make it a hastle to deal with when it can setup and break teams with ease as a result. I say that a red flag should be put on this mon too which is a shame since like I said it adds a lot of value to the tier.
Ok so I have been playing a bit more with the new drops and I think this meta is quite fun but certain things to seem troubling right now that I would like to point out:
: This is the best mon in the tier right now in my honest opinion. It can run SD + 3 Attacks, Calm Mind Offensive, Bulky Cam Mind with Kee Berry or Grassy Seed with Grassy Terrain support, Choice Band, and a plethora of more sub-options within the aforementioned sets. While its offensive prowess is not astronomically high (even on the physical side) the thing that makes it so threatening is it's Speed tier in combination with it's coverage that lets it pick and choose it's checks. Not much can check it offensively besides Persian, FakeSpeed Pikachu, Raichu, and ig Dugtrio and Rapidash-G has the right support moves in it's arsenal to turn it into a tremendous threat. This is compounded upon how well it can abuse the amount of Tspike usage goign around thanks to it's ability, letting it somewhat punish Mareanie (although Physical sets need to be really careful of coming into a Scald burn). All in all, Rapidash-G is just an amazing and near perfect offensive threat in ZU that may need some looking into in the near future, which is a shame since it kinda keeps other problematic stuff like Mareanie, Lycanroc-M, and Falinks in check.
: I mainly use setup sets either being SD + 3 Attacks or No Retreat on HO teams, but I also been experimenting with CB sets on bulky offensive teams and Falinks is a big threat with the right team support. It trades the bulk and slightly better coverage that Grapploct has for a better speed tier and ability to punish Defog / Intimidate usage thanks to Defiant. I can see Falinks become an issue down the line especially if stuff like Rapidash-G and Musharna go, but for now I think it's just a great offensive mon that has it's fair share of offensive checks and decent-ish pool of defensive answers as well.
: Rain is broken. Plain and simple. The offensive combo of Drednaw and Golduck just puts too much pressure on typical rain checks like Politoed, Gourgeist-S, and Pyukumuku and I believe the tier just can't handle the amount of flexibility these teams have especially with the extended amount of turns given with Damp Rock. I feel the council should look into banning Damp Rock as they did with Heat Rock so that counterplay can be a bit more achievable without needing to deal with an extended amount of turns that rain is up thanks to Damp Rock.
: This pokemon is very interesting as on one hand I feel it adds a tremendous amount of value to the tier acting as an offensive Gourgeist check, special sponge thanks to it's AV set, offensive breaker with it's CB set, and overall nice stallbreaker with it's Sub+SD set. However, its those last two mentioned sets in particular that may push it over the edge for me. Defensive / balanced teams can really struggle with a Bouffalant behind a substitute and I think the tier just does not have enough breaking power to deal with bulky Bouffalant sets which in turn can make it a hastle to deal with when it can setup and break teams with ease as a result. I say that a red flag should be put on this mon too which is a shame since like I said it adds a lot of value to the tier.
Solid takes! I agreed with most of your post, and in the ZU Discord we talked more about what you brought up. Here I just want to put what was said there in writing and clarify a few more of my points.
Rain has not felt like an overwhelming playstyle in ZU yet so far, but it is one of the most threatening and viable. I've played around with few different playstyles and rain is doing great with the new abusers and support. However, I believe there's a lot in the meta that teams can adapt with so that it isn't entirely rain teams and rain cteams. First and foremost, the biggest problem with rain teams are of course Grassy Terrain teams, with Grookey easily revenge killing sweepers and pressuring support. There are usually additional Grassy Glide abusers and defensive sweepers like Musharna and Galarian Rapidash that can also prevent rain from getting momentum. On more general teams, Hippopotus's Sand Stream of course causes problem for rain, and Palpitoad is a solid counter to both abusers. I want to say that these three mons are some of the easiest counters to rain teams, and they also do well outside of the match up (see my two teams below).
Past these, the tier still has a lot to build around to check the sweepers through multiple mons and cores. Defensive Water resistant Pokemon are plentiful, and generally have been pretty viable.Nuzzle + Giga Drain Hattrem is a great combo for punishing rain, and other walls like Musharna and Vullaby are so bulky that they can trade hits / wall some sets even in rain with some extra support. Pikachu and First Impression Falinks have strong priority against some rain sweepers, and Belly Drum Eiscue actually sets up on and counter sweeps Drednaw if it stays in. Nicher playstles like screens HO usually build enough momentum up against rain to be ok, with Prankster Morgrem guaranteeing the support, and Amaura + Beartic Hail works to a similar degree as sand teams.
So in short, I'm not too scared of rain teams yet. In the future, they will totally be something to keep an eye on, and especially so if Ludicolo is ever voted to be unbanned. I also want to mention that banning Heat Rock was a PU vote that carries over to ZU, and that I believe most of our council would be more likely to ban a single mon on rain rather than the item.
Bouffalant
Bouf is a monster that has all the tools for it to take over the meta. A major factor here is that as a tank, it trades hits really well against pretty much everything. Targets that it may not have the best coverage for like Gourg formes, Mawile, Klang, and Metang, it instead has a lot of reliable bulk, immunities, and Substitute to prevent them from statusing or Tricking it. Would-be counters like Pyukumuku still have to worry about Taunt or even Toxic as a fourth move, and with Body Slam replacing Return it can even parahax it to death potentially. Dealing with it offensively is also really tough thanks to its great bulk and almost inability to be 1HKO'd itself outside of some offensive Fighting-types. Bouf is different from another top mon like Falinks because of its reliable bulk and SD + Sub + Normal STAB attack combo. Falinks has a ton of different checks depending on what coverage it opts for, while Bouf only has a few options for a 4th move in its main set, and less checks overall. That's not even getting into other potential sets like Choice Band, SD + 3 attacks, Cotton Guard, and even Choice Scarf all seem like they could be worthwhile niches. The best counterplay is usually revenge killing Bouf with say Fallinks if it's too healhty, or phazers like the defensive Ground-types of Hippo, Mud, and Gabbite. Not much.
I'm not saying we should ban Bouf, but I do think it's the best mon in the meta and something we should look at as either unhealthy or broken. I like a lot that it does as a stallbreaker and Gourg / Grassy Terrain counter, but there's something to say when it goes above and beyond these roles.
New teams?:
Yeah, check out my teamdump post! Have fun in the new meta everyone, and lmk what you think on my takes :)
Hey fellas, I’m just here to give my thoughts on some of the new un-bans and drops. I didn't go over everything because I didn't know what to think of some.
I think this guy (or gal) is definitely much less of a potent force in the metagame compared to what it once was. Now that we have mareanie and falinks along with what feels like 15 other resists, Lycanroc is probably not going to be able to slaughter half of the opponent’s team merely by clicking swords dance.
Same thing with Lycanroc, not as powerful with Rapidash - G running around, or clopping around. Still able to boast a massive threat late game.
Boy have I never been happier to see Ludicolo banned. Scrolling down the November tier shifts I saw dreadnaw and thought “Hey, that seems pretty neat.” Then I saw golduck dropped from PU to ZU and I was literally about to crap my pants. Having strong special offense and swift swim is going to be powerful, especially with the drop of meowstic in October.
This seems like your bulk standard rain abuser on paper, but I honestly see a ton of potential as a lead / rocks setter. Definitely ruined most of sudowoodo’s viability, but I can’t say I didn’t see that thing getting outclassed in the future anyways.
What is there to be said, that hasn’t been said already about The Horse? I don’t think that it’s going to be klang levels of meta shifting, but it will definitely be a hard hitter in ZU.
:Boufalant:
These mons aren’t a complete game changer in my book, but definitely good additions to the tier. They both boast great power, but not necessarily enough to warrant being banned. They also both seem to (sort of) outclass previous mons.
Finally! We get a silvally that isn’t weak to rocks! Definitely the best silvally right now, due to it being able to defog without taking 25% from rocks!
Really hate this guy, but that doesn’t change that he’s a pretty good lead. Definitely will lead to hat being used much more, which will lead to charja being used more to beat out hat. Still think this guy will stick around in the meta.
Despite not being around for this gal before she was banned, I still think musharna is going to be a great tank, and calm mind user. Despite its lack of usage because everyone and their mother has an obsession with the horse. [Myself included] Musharna also seems like a really good fit for trick room!
Quick lightning round for some of the others that I didn’t have much to talk about but had a somewhat strong opinion on them.
[small]
Cute, but also scary as a revenge killer.
Showed up way too late, we already have magmar.
Toxic spikes seem really good, also has some great physical Bulk.
Rocks + knock off seems great for utility. I’m also loving the rocky helmet.
Last but not least, actually this is least. Resorting to agility is a No-No in my book.
I wanted to do a very fancy, well-formatted post on the November Part 1 meta and my impressions of it near the beginning, but current events and school once more overwhelmed me. Instead, I'll take some time to analyze both how the meta has shaped itself and some parts that I believe have gone undiscussed.
Without further ado:
DAWN OF THE FIRST DAY: 72 HOURS REMAIN (NOVEMBER DROPS)
Funnily enough, we just received the last of DLC1 this month, the UU-Aegislash wave crashing down into our fair tier. The drops that we received haven't shattered the tier so much as injected it with some more power. I promise discussing this isn't useless; ZU is an insulated metagame for a few reasons. The main ones are likely tiering decisions by those above (weather bans, PU's Whack-a-Vally, and flush banlists) and our own unofficial metagame status. As such, I think ZU is more well-adjusted to receiving new mons, but challenged as the generation wears on.
Falinks is the mon I want to discuss foremost. I personally believe Falinks is one of the most threatening of the new drops. To be honest, my experiences have been skewed a bit in both facing and using it on ladder due to the new ZU Laddering Achievements project. However, Falinks is still a force to be reckoned with in the builder and on the field. CC STAB with Throat Chop / Zen Headbutt / P-Jab as coverage options is destructive. Rock Slide, Iron Head, and Megahorn are fine alts, but the former options are best for hitting Gourgs, Clops, and Mare. Falinks' flexibility doesn't run out at coverage though, as with FImpression, SD, and No Retreat, it can class into being a revenge killer, breaker, or sweeper.
Take This (Falinks) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Zen Headbutt / Poison Jab
On all Falinks sets, I list CC + Throat Chop as mandatory moves. On Falinks' SD + 3 Attacks set, running Zen is the better option for breaking Mareanie. P-Jab is a fine alt for Shii, but I don't think Shii is a reliable check or as prominent. Build your team with Gorse, Mime, and Emolga in mind, as they can revenge Falinks and its mediocre base 75 speed. Vespi, Colbur Mushy, and Colbur Gourgs also threaten the sweep, so bring checks to them (or run Rock Slide for Vespi).
Waterloo (Falinks) @ Lum Berry / Shed Shell
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- No Retreat
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Poison Jab / Rock Slide
No Retreat Falinks has potential to sweep unprepared teams. However, Falinks' 100 Attack can be underwhelming, with only a +1 boost as opposed to +2 with SD. Addy is better for an extra nudge of power. Revenging a boosted Falinks with +1 to its defensive stats is tough, though you end up dropping them with CC. I've slashed P-Jab first for this set, as OHKOing Gony and Mime can make all the difference. There are few fast threats that Zen Headbutt meaningfully hits when compared to P-Jab. Rock Slide might come as another surprise, but Emolga and Bugvally may also attempt to stand in the way of sweeps, and downing a persistent Vespi is nice. Lum is preferable, as Ghosts will often attempt to switch in on Falinks in an effort to check it while throwing out status, so having a free turn by denying that is excellent. Shed Shell gives second chances, but NR Falinks should be played with commitment.
Hoplite (Falinks) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Zen Headbutt / Poison Jab / Rock Slide
Though Falinks has good setup options, running it as a FI RKer is an excellent idea. Pika might have FakeSpeed while Frax has FI and similar coverage, but Falinks' greater bulk, item flexibility, and fine speed tier stand out. Addy is preferred to maximize FImp, though if you really need to beat the 249-272 speed tiers, Jolly's fine. Falinks' last slot is flexible: Zen punishes Mare, Choke, and Grapp wanting to swallow FImps for a teammate; P-Jab is a fine secondary for spreading status or punishing a switch-in from Wiggly or Toge. Slide is for Vespi, and does alright damage to Togetic. RKer Falinks should be customized to its team, as it supports breakers like Gapidash, Bouff, and Magmar. HWish support from Gorse, Hatt, and the Mimes mitigates any chip taken.
Engarde (Falinks) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
FImpression is a threat in itself coming off of Falinks, and SD easily takes advantage of the switches that Falinks forces. An RKer that doubles as a breaker is something hard to pull off: Pika tries, but its fragility and reliance on Normal prio let it down. Meanwhile, Frax doesn't get to take advantage of a LO boost. Falinks' coverage on this set is strapped with the need to handle Ghosts, so running checks to Fairies, Mareanie, and Vespi is necessary for success.
These four sets are the ones I see enduring the most in the metagame. I definitely see a lot of SD and No Retreat (separately) on ladder. I've preferred to use the FI + SD set just because of its flexibility, but SD has been reliable too. Falinks in action can either consume matches or end up a dud, and I find that the NR set is the one that goes bust more often than it sweeps.
Falinks, in my opinion, is held back by three major, innate problems:
1. Base 75 Speed
Running at Base 75, even if you get to +1 on a NR set, is a difficult position for Falinks. Choosing to go Ada makes Falinks more prone to being RK'd. Mime and Gime have been consistent ZU speedsters, and scarf sets for the former aren't uncommon. Smallgeist is a new addition that outruns Falinks, often runs Colbur, and sometimes Wisp. Gapidash is another new drop with better speed and super effective STAB. NR can outpace Gony, but Scarf Gony is a sleeper set. The IoA Electric Rats Emolga and Dedenne both have super-effective STAB against Falinks while outspeeding it, Dedenne in particular resisting Falinks' primary coverage.
2. Base 100 Attack
100 Attack is above average for the tier, but Falinks is just now joining the ranks of big breakers in a tier that has traditionally had picks like Beartic, Machoke, and Sudo. Frax, Stout, and Duggy also joined us during the Isle of Armor. Ston stood as the most relevant physical attacker in the tier over the course of the IoA era. ZUBL mons like Grapp and Lycan-Midnight being free give Falinks competition, while fellow drops like Heat, Dred, Law, and Gony as tough company. Rather than just listing, what I want to get at is ZU handling these other picks - many of which have SD, DD, CB, Hail Veil, and spammable STABs to abuse- indicates to me Falinks doesn't have a field day when it comes to earning its slot, breaking, or sweeping. +1 NR sets can fall short of the OHKOs they want on offensive teams, even with LO. Perhaps I'm just using Falinks poorly, but I feel that it doesn't always just get to run away with matches, even if it sets up.
3. Slots for coverage
A number of other offensive picks in the tier have struggled with imperfect or limited coverage options (Beh, Klang, and Raichu stand out in my mind), but Falinks has some of the most colorful coverage yet. While this means it gets to take picks from teams that guess its last slot improperly, this also means that Falinks can run into problems breaking or sweeping if it's coming from behind. Mare, the Gourgs, Shii, and Vespi all make picking a last slot for Falinks in the builder a struggle. While Falinks is highly customizable, it's railroaded into running CC/Throat Chop and maybe one coverage move, meaning that you have to compensate for what Falinks isn't hitting, or fall short of a break/sweep.
I'll include more experimental sets that I don't think will catch on necessarily, but have good surprise factors. These sets take advantage of some more neglected options/roles in Falinks' sets and movepool. I won't be giving them full explanations, as they're somewhat intuitive.
Kevlar (Falinks) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Poison Jab / Rock Slide
As an all-out-attacker, Falinks excels at revenge killing. AV gives Falinks some extra padding against a lot of the Psychic types that FImpression may fail to OHKO, or gives it the breathing room to try and 2HKO a bulky Psychic with Throat Chop after proccing Colbur.
The defensive picks that try to check Falinks by staying in and trying to status it are in for a rude awakening when Falinks subs up on them and breaks with SD. Throat Chop is vital for Ghosts, but running Zen for Mare isn't bad.
Blitzkrieg (Falinks) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Agility
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Rock Slide / Poison Jab / Iron Head
Similar to the NR set, but it overcomes Falinks' middling 75 speed to sweep through the entire unboosted (and most of the boosted) metagame. Rock Slide and P-Jab are for their usual suspects, but don't be afraid to try Iron Head for its flinch chance and Fairy punishment either.
Dual Wield (Falinks) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Agility
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
NR on steroids, with limited coverage and more flexibility. Jolly is over Adamant, as you'll likely be breaking with Falinks more often than sweeping. Coverage on the set really shouldn't be tampered with, but if you're super desperate, you know what P-Jab/Rock Slide/Zen hit by now.
Band of Brothers (Falinks) @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Rock Slide / Iron Head
Locking into Band FImpression can be risky, just as locking into any move is, but a hard jump on an opponent might leave them down an option if they anticipate a different set. To not lock into inopportune moves, Rock Slide and Iron Head are the coverage options, still hitting Flyers/Fairies. P-Jab and Zen should stay in your mind though.
Last Stand (Falinks) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- No Retreat
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
NR's +1 to all stats boost is great, but misses out on a number of KOs against defensive teams. Running Swords Dance on the set gives Falinks the chance to mow down teams that were not expecting you to get up to +3 on them. Jolly is preferred, as if you're getting to +3, there's little that will be standing in your path anyway, so the extra speed can be more beneficial.
Guerilla Tactics (Falinks) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- No Retreat
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
Tormenting passive defensive mons coming in to check Falinks is fun, especially with Lefties, Sub, and No Retreat's defensive boosts. A standing Sub gives Falinks more breathing room against fast revenge killers like Scarf Mime.
The next most relevant mon I'd like to discuss is Rapidash-Galar/Gapidash/Gorse/Gony.
Gapidash is a Crazy-Ex PUBL turned S-Rank PU mon that has become part of our tier now, and the same factors that drove its prior ban and then redemptive success there may come off as overwhelming. Gapidash, like Falinks, has excellent coverage and flexibility. However, the Gorse boasts a more impressive speed tier, utility options, and tends to be a better team player with its Toxic immunity. I do think Gony is much more manageable than it may have initially appeared, which I'll go over in parts of this post as I share some sets and thoughts on them.
Caliburn (Rapidash-Galar) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pastel Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- High Horsepower
- Morning Sun
Gapidash is one of few Fairy types to have Ground coverage, and powerful coverage at that. Play Rough and Hi-Horse have perfect neutral coverage against everything save Bugvally, Vespi, and Shedinja, all of which fear Fire coverage from special sets. None of these mons outspeed Gony either. With privileged 105 Speed and 100 Attack, Gorse can blur the line between breaking and sweeping. Morning Sun alleviates LO chip and keeps Gapidash healthy too. Passive mons can't Toxic Gony to put it on a timer, nor does Gapidash fear TSpikes. However, SDing can be difficult against more offensive teams. SD Gapidash appreciates slow pivots like Vespi, Slowpoke, and Wiggly bringing it in, as Gorse can be fragile.
Oryx (Rapidash-Galar) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pastel Veil
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
- Morning Sun / Dazzling Gleam
Gapidash is one of few mons with the privilege of viable physical and special sets, something in ZU only done by Icevally, Gourg, and Eiscue. Offensive CM Gapidash takes advantage of teams expecting a physical set. Psychic/Fire is perfect coverage against everything but Slowpoke, Zwei, and Solrock. Slowpoke does nothing, and Zwei has to fear Fairy STAB. Solrock isn't soaring in terms of viability, and Gapidash can stall out Stone Edges with Morning Sun.
That said, Gorse's 80 SpA, even at +1 with LO, isn't off the charts. If you want to sweep, you need to soften special walls. Running Beh, Mush, Mime, or Gime as Psychic spam to support Gorse is sick. Beh can pivot, Itemless/Colbur Mushy defensively checks threats to Gony, and the Mimes have HWish to keep Gorse running.
Psyshock is slashed to win CM boosting wars, though MFire serves that purpose too.
Auroch (Rapidash-Galar) @ Leftovers / Kee Berry / Grassy Seed
Ability: Pastel Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Morning Sun
- Stored Power / Psychic / Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
What would any good Crazy Ex-PUBL be without Berry/Seed abuse? Bulky CM Gapidash takes games from players if given the opportunity, especially with a Def boost.
Psychic is a great if you're less certain about getting boosts, while Psyshock is for boosting wars against other Gorses and Mush.
If you're running Grassy Seed, Grookey is obviously mandatory. Bulky Gorse pairs splendidly with T-Spike support. Mare is very good at providing TSpikes while Knocking or spreading Scald burns to neutralize physical attackers. Clops and Largeist are good for defanging physical attackers that may give Gapidash trouble later in the game. Shii has Sleep to give Gony precious setup turns.
Kentucky (Rapidash-Galar) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pastel Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- High Horsepower
- Zen Headbutt
- Healing Wish
Scarf Mime, but trade Trick for physical power, better coverage (somehow), and a better speed tier without the defense of wet tissue paper (just dry).
In all seriousness, Scarf Gapidash is slept on. This is for good reason, as SD and CM jump out as more exciting sets. However, Scarf has consistency and meta staying power which boosting sets lack. ZU has been traditionally strapped for good Scarfers, and Scarf Gony is the fastest Scarfer in the meta AND has HWish.
Fairy STAB isn't bad to lock into, and Gapidash's other two coverage moves cover it well but have clear risks for locking into. Run checks to Vespi, Mawile, and Metang if you plan to make Gapidash your scarfer.
Aggro (Rapidash-Galar) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pastel Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- High Horsepower
- Zen Headbutt
- Healing Wish
Here's a set that I REALLY think is being slept on in the current meta, evenmoreso than Scarf. Gony's 105 Speed beats the entire unboosted metagame save for Raichu, Duggy, and Persian, each of which are mid right now.
Banded Play Rough is super spammable against the entire meta. It's hard not to draw comparisons to Mime, and CB Gony is a very clear analog to Specs Mime for both its coverage and HWish.
As per usual, you'll want something else to check the few things in the meta that can take CB Play Rough with Hi-Horse as coverage (hi Vespi). Lycan and Rockvally appreciate Gapidash softening up or removing their Steel and Fighting checks, as well as HWish potentially giving them a second chance to sweep.
Gapidash is similar to Falinks in terms of both checks and shortcomings. Gorse can run away with matches based on perfect coverage, set flexibility, and power. However, I've also seen Gony fall short of sweeping more than once. 100 Atk is great for physical sets, but 80 SpA doesn't always cut it. Reliance on setup moves for sweeping and breaking is a difficult game for Gorse against more offensive teams. Though Gony has access to Morning Sun for LO/hazard chip, 65/70/80 defenses are not good. That said, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Gapidash maybe ends up on a voting slate or is petitioned for a ban by some players. Once meta has had time to settle, Gapidash will end as more high A rank / S rank material than a broken threat. Personally, I appreciate a fast breaker/sweeper that sticks it to Mareanie.
I'll be going through niche sets much more quickly, as with Falinks. Same as before, I think each holds some merits, but they either don't fit into the current meta or lack essentials to succeed on more than surprise factor.
Lisa Frank (Rapidash-Galar) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pastel Veil
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Healing Wish
Mime comparisons reach their logical conclusion with Specs Gapidash. Gapidash does not have the special breaking power of Mime, and lacks a stronger STAB than Dazzling Gleam or the added utility of Trick. However, Gapidash's speed tier can help for revenge killing. Psychic/Fairy/Fire is nearly perfect coverage, even if 80 SpA misses out on some 2HKOs.
Another Mime mirror, Gapidash stands above Mime as the fastest Scarfer in the metagame, so experimenting with a special scarf set is not unwarranted. The speed tier can be useful for revenging certain threats like Flame Charge Silvallies, Rapid Spin Gime, and a statused Goone. +2 Ada Seaking and Ston will also be outsped.
Mr. Hands (Rapidash-Galar) @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Pastel Veil
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Morning Sun / Mystical Fire
Hypnoblunder qualifies as a gimmick set, but gimmicks still can run away with sweeps. Nothing in the meta outspeeds +2 Gony, sleep turns afford CM setup, and Stored Power benefits from Blunder Policy. Morning Sun helps keep the sweep if you take chip, though M-Fire should be seriously considered against Darks while breaking Steels.
Rainbow Dash (Rapidash-Galar) @ Kee Berry
Ability: Pastel Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Morning Sun
Similar to the Blunder Policy set, but without being dependent on Hypnosis doing exactly what you need it to do. Between all the boosts and speed, Gorse can really run away with matches - if it can pick up speed fast enough that is. I'm a big Duosion fan, so this fills the desire in my heart to 6-0 with something kind of stupid.
From here, I'll be grouping the drops together into groups. This is so that this post isn't horrifyingly long to scroll through, for organization's sake, and to draw some similarities between mons.
Two pure Normal attackers, alike in dignity, with setup options and useful defensive abilities... though the ways the two behave are different.
To start, Dubwool. Short-lived NU mon, next slate-worthy PU mon, descending in use and viability until being squeezed into ZU. A Gen 8 mon without relevant DLC additions, Dubwool is pretty much the same one-dimensional Cotton Guard + Body Press defensive setup sweeper it started as, but now here.
I expect Restalk to be the sole set for Dub. Given EVs maximize bulk and Body Press' power. Running Speed to creep certain threats (Heatmor, Poli, and Ston) may be a smart idea, but I won't be sharing anything specific given the chaos of the meta.
Restalk Dub is intuitive to build around. Mare and Vespi both provide T-Spike removal while adding their own to wear down Dub's checks. Only lowly Honedge is both Toxic and Body Press immune. Hatt helps to keep hazards off the field while providing clerical or HWish support. From there, your priorities should be to wear down Gourgs, Clops, Vespi, and Mare so Dubwool can Body Press the opponent into fine linen.
There's just the one Dub set to discuss, though as usual, I experimented with a few cool techs. Dubwool's limited movepool leaves it with Body Press + Cotton Guard to be its only schtick, but I'll include a few gimicky sets later in the post.
In spite of the linearity of Dub, the sheep can overwhelm underprepared teams. The PU council wasn't unwarranted putting Dub on slates twice in early SS. Now though, it's also clear to see why Dub was let off the hook both times. When Body Press is Dubwool's sole attacking move (without STAB), Dub is easily walled by Ghosts. Vespiquen PP stalls the sheep easily with Pressure and a 4x resist, setting up T-Spikes in the meantime. Mareanie switches in to Haze easily. Even special Gony set up on the sheep with Morning Sun and MFire.
All of that said, Dubwool can become Dumbwool, especially with strong team support. Mare pairs well with the sheep, removing Lefties, intercepting Fire attacks, absorbing T-Spikes, and poisoning Dub's opposition. Vespi and Ivy play similar roles to Mare with their own unique perks. Hatt and Mush support the sheep by luring Ghosts and providing cleric support.
In the end, Dub is just a good wincon (akin to Goth (rip), Duo, and current Klang) rather than something that warps the meta. I'll be interested to see if it sticks around, though I expect it will has a short shelf life.
Shears (Dubwool) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Double-Edge
- Bounce
- Zen Headbutt / Body Press
Cotton Guard isn't Dub's only setup move! 80 Attack is meager, but Dub has the physical bulk to set up and SD once or twice. Bounce hits Gourgs, Vespis, and Fighters. I've had games where Bounce's para chance haxed me a win, so don't schleep on the sheep. Zen is mostly for Mare. Body Press is a fine alt given Dubwool's excellent defense with Fluffy and to chunk the Rocks and Steels that would otherwise wall it.
Static Wool (Dubwool) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Body Press
- Body Slam
- Thunder Wave
Dub isn't the worst para spreader in the world, but its competition is Dunsparce. Dub's physical bulk and speed have merits. Body Slam and TWave can hax the team through a battle. Para support is also cool seeing as the most splashable Dub check at the moment, Smallgeist, loses its speed tier when para'd. Paralyzing other common defensive staples like Mare and Vespi can give a teammate the chance to setup and break through if luck is on your side (hi toto).
Plush (Dubwool) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Cotton Guard
- Body Press
- Bounce
It's much harder to check Dub if you can't status it and force it to rest, so why not punish an opponent for trying? Mixing Sub and Bounce maximizes Lefties for Dub, and hits Gourgs. Cotton Guard and Body Press check scary physical attackers like Lycan-Mid and Bouff.
All this talk about sweeper Dub... why not be a defensive backbone instead? Cotton Guard and Body Press can still threaten a sweep, but Dubwool's typing and ability also check the slew of physical attackers running rampant. Helmet really sticks it to SD Bugvally, physical Gapidash, and U-Turners. TWave supports the team by spreading paras, obvi.
Bouff wasn't SM's valedictorian (hi Swanna), but it is a respected SM ZU Alum. Fashionably late to the SS ZU metagame, the Isle of Armor directly and indirectly buffed the buffal. Bouff has new coverage moves, and Gourg is now a meta-reigning titan. Bouff's denies Gourg's STABs in a way that makes Vullaby jealous. I anticipate Bouff being a mainstay of the CT meta, something I cannot say of Dubwool.
Headband (Bouffalant) @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Charge
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Throat Chop
Here's a classically formatted run-on to describe something powerful on Smogon: Reckless-boosted Adamant Choice Band STAB Head Charge off a base 110 Attack stat. Bouff doesn't have Pursuit to pick off Ghosts anymore, but Throat Chop is a valid replacement given it the BP of boosted Pursuit. CC rounds out Bouf's perfect coverage, crushing Rock and Steel types with more power than EQ. That said, EQ is still on the set, doing great damage to Mare and Maw in particular.
There's not much that could really be added. Megahorn can be a useful extra option for nailing Mush without recoil. Wild Charge gets a Reckless boost and hits Mare and deals more damage to Pyuk. Zen is another anti-Mare move that punishes defensive Fighters. However, each of these compromises Bouff's perfect coverage.
A physical breaker, Bouff excels at opening up holes and opportunities for teammates. Pika, NR Falinks, or a Vally flavor of your choice pair well.
Buffalo Burger (Bouffalant) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Body Slam
- Throat Chop / Earthquake
SubSD Bouff is another classic SM set, now been enriched by Throat Chop. Bouff gets a number of opportunities to set up thanks to the omnipresence of the Gourgs. The other big Normal check, Dusclops, will be put on the back foot if it tries to wisp as you sub up. The speed EVs can be played with to outpace threats of your choice, but breaking through more defensive teams tends to be SD Bouff's bread and butter. You're also free to give yourself more SpDef if you're a coward. I prefer the extra Attack to actually break through defensive teams.
With any Tox-vulnerable Sub setup mon, Bouff needs a teammate that can clean up T-Spikes for it. Mare and Ivy fit the bill. Vespi and Mare themselves can set T-Spikes, and Hattrem sort of hybridizes the two with cleric support.
EQ is slashed for hitting Mare and Maw, even though carrying some kind of coverage to break through Ghosts is almost always better. The decreased power of Body Slam compared to the Return of SM is notable, though a lucky para sometimes make up for the power loss, especially with Sub + Lefties.
Between CB and SD, Bouff shapes up to reprise its bulky breaker role from SM. The greater coverage of Throat Chop and CC makes up for the cuts of Return and Pursuit. As I'll run through a bit later in the bonus sets, Bouff has great customizability between and within sets too. I anticipate it being entrenched as a top threat in the CT meta unless the power curve suddenly lurches WAY upwards.
Bouff is a good pick at the moment, but I think it's held back by a few factors. Falinks dominates much of the meta and tugs Bouff's hair, Maw + Mare's drops challenge Bouff to pick the right moves (in builder and battle). So long as Gourg remains dominant, Bouff will be at the top, but I don't see Bouff controlling the meta itself.
Protected Species (Bouffalant) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Throat Chop / Megahorn
Bouff's bulk and coverage warrant a niche Assault Vest. Even for special Gourg sets running Fire Blast will struggle to dent AV Bouff, and you shut downn Shiinotic and Bellossom while you're at it. Not being 2HKO'd by FBlast from scarf Mime or spin Gime while threatening an OHKO on both is a nice touch. You won't be sponging Raichu's +2 Focus Blast though, to say nothing of Heatmor or Magmar. I'll Megahorn is a greater slashed option than usual, as many Psychics like Mush, Orang, and Beh have Colbur addictions.
100 Percent Cotton (Bouffalant) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Body Slam
- Toxic
- Rest
Analogous to Dub, trading Body Press' offensive value for key access to Tox. Max bulk is best for Lefties recovery, and Body Slam keeps Bouff from being passive. Not a very good set, but a saucy option to keep in mind.
Toreador (Bouffalant) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
- Body Slam
- Earthquake / Throat Chop
Isn't it just the worst when Clops and Mare Haze your boosts or status you? Say no to passive mons with Taunt! EQ is slashed before Throat Chop here to dispose of Mare and Maw much quicker, but Throat Chop is still useful for disposing of Dusclops and Gourgeists. As you won't have Sub on your side, aggressive play is best to blindside teams. Bye bye Pyuk!
Threaded (Bouffalant) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Cotton Guard
- Body Slam
- Rest
An ugly compromise between Bouff's offensive and defensive capabilities, though it does have flexibility in matchups to be what you need. Body Slam as the sole attacking move is a risky venture, but enough opponents fear Bouff's coverage that you might as well take advantage of it.
So we've got some new hazard setters! Stealth Rock has had, forgive the pun, a rocky history in SS ZU so far. Rocks were easy to get and keep up in Alpha, where our removers were Wart, Vib, and a diminishing pool of Vallies. Following that, hazard stack had a golden age with Pincurchin's drop, PU Vib, and the dominance of Mare (nightMare).
With the July shift, hazards (particularly rocks) have became less easy to get and keep up in the meta. Gime became the best spinner in the tier, Defoggers like Vespi and Vib came/returned in August, Hatt's drop in September killed the viabilities of many weak hazard setters, and Wiggly failed to change the hazard game in October.
Rocks made their recovery thanks to the Crown Tundra DLC, with Marsh, Lairon, Metang, and Gabite all offering tasty new options to get your rocks up, even with Hatt present. And now, with drops, we finally have new staple rockers that aren't Ston, Hippo, and Mudbray.
I want to talk about Dred first, though it's not the most influential setter we received. Dred is cool as a fast hazard setter (faster than Ston) and beats Defoggers too. Though Dred isn't the specialized setter that Shuck is, the balance backbone of Maw, or the defensive pivot of Mare, it stands as the best offensive rocker in the meta.
Even better, and as you'll see, hazards aren't all Dred does. Some players experimented with Rain prior to the November shift, but Drednaw supercharges that, as seen on ladder. Beyond rain though, SD and CB are worthwhile sets in their own rights.
Helo Dunker (Drednaw) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Liquidation
- Bulldoze
Lead Dred is one of the most reliable ways to get rocks up in the tier, barring perhaps Krok or Shuck. Dred's immediate power, good physical bulk, and dual STAB shuts down all Defoggers and Spinners. The set itself is pretty linear requires all that much explanation, both in use and team support. Smallgeist is an excellent partner that shuts down spinners coming in later, and fits on HO teams Dred leads on.
Drednaw @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Rain Dance
- Liquidation
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Superpower / Swords Dance
Who needs Drizzle when you have the power and bulk to set up and sweep on your own? LO Rain Dance Dred is straight up vicious, and no even Scarf Raichu can save a poor team that has been left tattered and weakened for Drednaw to eat.
The nature is up to you. If you need extra power to clean at the end of the game, Ada. You will be outsped by Scarfers above Base 100, though those are few and far between (Raichu, Gorse, and Dedenne). However, Jolly can save you in games where you won't be able to set Rain for yourself, preserving Drednaw's base 74 Spe to tie Krok and beat Ston, Luxray, Poli, and Largeist.
Last move on the set is more customizable. EQ is for Mare, Maw, and Metang. Superpower can be a risky option that limits your sweeps to dispose of Bouff and Klang, and chunk Palp. SD can break slower teams, but gives up the third coverage slot, and finding time to set up both Rain Dance and SD is tough.
Rain Locker (Drednaw) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Superpower
Now HERE'S a breaker! SD Dred gnashes through many defensive teams, with bulk and typing giving it the opportunity to come in on choice-locked, weaker, or not very effective threats, such as Magmar or Heat, Maw, or Bugvally.
Dred has to play carefully, even with SD, because chances to set up on a switch that isn't free can be tough. Slow pivots like Vespi, Wiggly, and Slowpoke give Dred setup opportunities. Offensive pivots like Pika, Emolga, and Raichu lure Dred's Grass and Ground type checks to leave them bereft of their items or chip them for Dred.
Dred's last slot is malleable. EQ for Mare and Maw, and Superpower for Bouff, Haka, and Palp. You're free to run Strong Jaw with Crunch to hit Gourgs, Megahorn for bulky Psychics, and P-Jab for Shiinotic, though the rain matchup is worsened with Strong Jaw or you give up coverage against some balance and defensive staples.
Swabbie (Drednaw) @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Head Smash / Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Crunch
- Superpower / Crunch
Whether in or out of rain, CB Dred hits you at 7 knots. Band may end up being the more reliable way to break in the current meta given how fussy SD can be. There are very few switch-ins in the metagame to Water/Rock dual STAB already, narrowed to Haka, Palp, and Marsh. Band Superpower chunks each of those hard on the switch. EQ for Mareanie, Mawile, and Metang... broken record. Crunch with Strong Jaw eats Gourgs, Hatt, itemless Mush, and Beh.
BandDred is great for punching holes for physical cleaners like Pika, Vallies, Smallgeist, and physical Gorse. Dred appreciates teammates that take advantage of its checks, so Ivy, Golduck, and Grookey match it.
Right now, my opinion on Dred is that it's excellent, like many of our new options, but struggles to stand out on Rainless builds. I don't even think Rain is Dred's best addition to the tier. Band offers a ton of immediate power (think: Ston) with few switch-ins. However, Dred is overshadowed by other new toys like Gapidash and Falinks. As time goes on, I think CB will emerge as Dred's best set, lending consistency. However, I also think that a high rank is contingent on how explosive future wallbreakers may be in comparison.
With how many passive defensive mons try to punish Dred with status for setting up on them, Sub is the ultimate way to deny any stop to the wolf pack. Sub is also useful against the many faster threats in the meta that itch to RK Drednaw, like the electric rats, Falinks, and Smallgeist.
Battle Rattle (Drednaw) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Rock Slide
- Rest
Funnily enough, Dred can be a defensive wincon, comboing Iron Defense with Body Press. Rock Slide provides excellent STAB, as seen with mons like Lycanroc-Midnight. It's absolutely spitting in the face of Drednaw's better sets, but Rock/Water could be a worse defensive typing, seeing as you set up against Sub SD Throat Chop Bouff, Icevally/Bugvally, and even Maw. Try it out if you're feeling bored after being trapped at sea or something. (As a bonus, Shell Armor means crits don't happen)
After terrorizing & being one of the faces of early SS ZU, Mareanie came back after staying in PU for Isle of Armor. The ZU it comes back to is different, now with more reliable hazard removal, stronger wallbreakers, and fewer bulky Eviolite balance cores to digest. This doesn't mean Mare will be at all bad, as seen in the higher power level of SM, where it dominates setup mons. Mare will be a general progress irritant with Haze, Knock, Toxic, T-Spikes, and Scald... yuck.
Mare has one set to discuss, and it will always be the same. Recover is mandatory, and to be frank, you should always run Haze. Scald can be switched for Knock to neutralize the Evio/Boots addicted mons of ZU. The choice of Toxic or T-Spikes comes down to what your team needs most, and if you can beat Hattrem and opposing Poisons.
Mare's EVs and nature can be switched up, whether you want a more mixed set for specific hits, or for some reason SpDef comes into the vogue. SpDef Mare is good at taking hits, but given our biggest special attackers right now are Specs Fires with Scorching Sand, Psychics, and a few scattered Electric types, Mare is better off Bold.
There's no other options here. Gunk Shot was an artifact of early SS to hit Togetic. Besides, Mare is strpaped for slots as is.
Funny, in all the time Mareanie was gone, ZU had a T-Spike field day. Balance builds centralized around what could set, remove, block, take advantage of, or live with T-Spikes. Vespi, Ivy, and later Hatt all became dominant in the meta for how vital T-Spikes were to team comps. Now, Mare does both the setting and absorption, something previously unseen. Mare is good at punishing balance switch-ins with Knock, making Evio and Boots users (Hatt especially) less reliable in the T-Spike game.
However, I think Mare's work is cut out for it this time around. The meta is now flush with powerful Psychic and Electric types, and the increase in hazard control options means T-Spikes aren't as centralized around it. I won't say Mare is going to be bad, instead I think it's going to become a balance staple. However, Mare won't warrant being put on a slate this time, much less dominate the metagame.
Lots of new mons all about eating things or biting things, huh?
Mawile is perhaps the most interesting pick out of all the drops, and I foresee Maw having the most staying power out of any drop, period. Maybe that's extreme, but Maw's typing and flexibility glue teams together on everything except for HO. It's shocking the biggest staple of early PU fell into our laps, but something similar could be said about Ston or Hatt.
Yokai (Mawile) @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough
- Toxic
- Knock Off
This is THE set for Mawile. Even with paltry stats, Steel/Fairy typing with Intimidate means Maw won't be role crunching itself. The niche of Steel rocker was vacant after Cufant descended, and though Metang vies for it, Maw isn't Knock bait. Toxic and Knock force progress in a tier of Boots + Eviolites. Play Rough is a good STAB move, as Fairy lacks many resists in ZU.
Maw's item is a bit of a toss-up. Lefties are vital on a mon meant to take a few hits, and Maw doesn't have endless bulk or other recovery, and it stand out against Evio mons. However, Helmet is viable for the chip you can accrue. You can also afford to play Maw loosely with Helmet, as Knock won't be the end of the world, especially with a resistance to it.
Maw has a slew of options that can be mixed around, down to everything but rocks being customizable. Play Rough can be switched for Iron Head, though you lose out on the good coverage of Fairy and more power. S-Toss works for consistent damage, but abandons dealing more damage with Play Rough and leaves Maw less reliable against Ghosts.
Pain Split is enticing, especially with Helmet to mitigate lack of recovery. Super Fang runs opposite, wearing down walls and switch-ins even moreso than Knock or Tox, but is less helpful in drawn out battles. Taunt is a neat option for some stallbreaking, but Maw's low speed is an issue. Protect milks turns of Leftovers, maximizes Toxic, and scouts sets, though leaves Maw more passive.
Hakama (Mawile) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough
- Toxic
- Knock Off
The "another side, another story" to Maw's primary set. Maw's special bulk is even more lacking than its physical bulk, but Steel/Fairy typing once more saves it. There's not much that can be said about this set that was not already said about the previous one. Helmet is less advisable on this set, Protect is more. Iron Head is slashed before Play Rough on this set, as it hits Gony, the Mimes, and Ivy for more damage compared to Play Rough, which is still a fine option.
I didn't mention this on the previous set as it was long, but Maw is such a great staple gluemon that the list of things it doesn't work well with is almost the easier list to make. Sweepers in particular love the ways Maw softens up teams. Mush, Frax, and Vallies like Toxic poison being spread and Eviolites being Knocked for easier sweeps.
Jawbreaker (Mawile) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Iron Head / Thunder Punch / Fire Fang
- Sucker Punch
Offensive Maw with SD and 3 attacks can eat unsuspecting teams, with coverage to hit anything it wants. EVs of the set maximize damage while not being outrun, but if you're a coward you can run Jolly or some bulk.
TPunch chews through Mare and Vespi, Fire Fang can be more helpful against Klang and Ivysaur, and Iron Head is worthwhile coverage against Rockvally, Mimes on the switch, Shiinotic, and Wigglytuff. Though it's not listed, Crunch is an option for Mushy, defensive Gourgs, and Clops in particular.
Sucker compensates for Maw's depressing speed, but doesn't benefit from Sheer Force, has LO chip, and can be outplayed. Running one of Maw's other coverage options in its place is not unwarranted, though the risk of being revenged by something like Magmar, Heatmor, or special Gourg should stick in your mind.
Maw is something I've been excited to use in ZU once tier creep was back on the menu. Like an idiot, I forgot this means my opponents get to use it too. Now, I stare down one of the best low tier gluemons in nearly every battle now. Maw's defensive sets force progress in a fight between rocks, knock, toxic, and whatever other moves the builder slapped onto it. Maw is not something so much a threat in the builder, but will likely be A rank material for the foreseeable future.
Mawile's role compression is great, with rocker, defensive, and offensive sets. Maw's customizability adds to the dimensionality of play in ZU. Many old defensive rockers have been pretty same-y across their sets. Mudbray could splash out on Rock Slide or switch Rest and Roar up, but Hippo and Palp are one-note. Maw opens up ranges of play, team styles, and prediction, adding to the budding meta.
And of course, what would versatility be without some wack sets to try out?
Rock Crusher (Mawile) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough
- Iron Head / Thunder Punch
- Rock Slide / Knock Off / Sucker Punch
Maw with Sheer Force and 3 atks has prospects. On one mouth, it sets up rocks while maintaining offensive presence. On the other mouth, it lacks the breaking power of SD and the defensive value of Intimidate with full bulk investment. This set fits strictly balance builds strapped to maintain offensive presence while still needing to get hazards up, or BO builds that forgot to put hazards on the team.
Gemini (Mawile) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head / Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch / Fire Fang / Rock Slide
This one goes out to czim in particular for beating me down with a weird aoa set in SM Cup. AoA Maw with can tear apart teams with coverage and unpredictability, but lacks the progress and power of other sets. Knock over a coverage moves or Iron Head can be a temporary fix, but you give up coverage. Mawile has so much coverage that it's difficult to really say what happens to be the "best" for the set, but dual STAB and boltbeam never let anyone down.
Two Faced (Mawile) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam / Knock Off
Did you know that Maw's most powerful special Fairy STAB is Draining Kiss? Well, now you do, I guess. Special attacking Maw with Sheer Force + LO is a weird reach, so I've included Rocks as a feature to the set and slashed Knock to let you down less. Maw's special coverage, like its physical coverage, is nothing to sneeze at, but just raises the question of why you'd use a special set over a physical one. Maybe on a bet?
Last, and certainly the least, Shuckle. I actually kind of fucking hate Shuckle personally. It's gross that it's made of mold, it's dumb that it's available for use in Johto's story mode easily as a gift but has effectively no good way to attack, and it's genuinely ugly. Even in competitive, I think the way it sets up rocks and/or webs without fail is genuinely annoying, and I'm not a big fan of one-dimensional mons that aren't cute.
Adhesive (Shuckle) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Toxic / Knock Off / Infestation / Final Gambit
This is pretty much the set for Shuck. No matter what* (*Hattrem notwithstanding) you get one hazard of your choice up. Encore is to not be setup bait, as it can open up some free turns for teammates, especially with Infestation. However, Tox and Knock are better options in an Evio meta lacking many Tox-immunities. Final Gambit is something I like to use, as hard switching into an abuser feels bad.
This is one of the few times I've been happy the PU ladder has been addicted to something dumb. Shuck's ability to get Webs up last gen was unprecedented in ZU. It's still distinct for being able to set Rocks alongside Webs, but Charjabug now stands as the more valuable option. Charja's bulk isn't bad, Volting to bring in a Webs abuser is pretty much perfect, and Skitter Smack breaking Hatt is equal parts hilarious and useful. Shuck is going to be ladder crack while it's here, and I'm not pleased we have it.
Shuck's presence adds a different option for webs teams. It's still not an offensive one, but a rocks-capable webs lead makes a difference for weaker abusers like Octillery or Heatmor. Ignoring Taunt, if only for a turn, is another noteworthy addition.
I will not be listing any alt sets. Not that I believe there aren't weird sets to run for Shuckle, but purely out of spite. Charjabug nation.
Big scary wallbreakers aren't a new phenomenon in ZU. Beartic and Octillery were Alpha heroes, and the Crown Tundra only brought more with Frax, Ston, and Beh. However, the typings, coverage, and utilities of these breakers pushed the curve upwards. Poli, Largeist, Magmar, and Choke were some interesting precursors, but these new mons stand to inflate and diversify the meta with their unique qualities.
I think Duck is easily one of the best offensive pivots in the entire meta. Well-rounded, a pure Water typing, a good speed tier, and good coverage make Duck stand as high rank material for a settled meta. One of the best analogs might be Raichu, though Duck has a lot that differentiates it from previous offensive pivots, whether electric rats or normal cats.
Scarfduck may just be one of our best fast Scarfers yet, and it now comes pre-packaged with a STAB pivoting move that can only be blocked by Palp or Poli. Those two make Golduck's life somewhat difficult as it lacks a way to really punish them. However, RKing boosted threats like DD Frax, NR Falinks, and Noice Eiscue can be very valuable. Psychic may be preferable to FBlast, as it's better vs Falinks, Mare, and Grapp. However, FBlast does more damage to threats like Dub, Dred, Icevally, Klang, Beartic, and Eiscue. Toxic is mentionable as an alt to punish Palp and Poli for switching in, but giving up coverage or pivoting can strain Duck, and you have to lock into Tox.
Scarfduck works well on bulky offense and balance teams. Run a hard answer to Palp and Poli so Flip Turn won't be eaten, and a response to the bulky waters is a good idea. Ivy, Hatt, and Emolga meet this req. Raichu, Dedenne, and Pika form VoltTurn cores with Scarfduck, punishing bulky waters Duck invites in. In return, Duck punishes Grounds, and threatens some Grass type checks like Largeist, Ivy, or Shii with Ice Beam.
Many of Scarfduck's merits can apply to the Specs set. Here though, the rec of Psychic over FBlast is less strict. Psychic is great breaking Mare while not risking a miss. FBlast is effective for extra damage against other bulky Waters, an OHKO on Dub, a good chance to OHKO max HP Bouff after rocks, and a 2HKO on SpDef Klang.
Aame rules apply from the Scarf set, as in needing a good hard stop to the tadpole and frog, and the rec of electric rats as teammates. However, a number of special cleaners appreciate the holes Specsduck opens for them. Special Gony, Mime, Gime, and Mush are big fans of Specsduck's work.
Derby (Golduck) @ Life Orb
Ability: Cloud Nine / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Psychic / Focus Blast
Duck's got a good speed tier and offensive coverage to run offensive CM, taking advantage of switches that Scarf and Specs force. Psychic is better to precision-break Mare. FBlast, once more though, should be kept in mind for bulky waters.
CMDuck, as offensive setup, appreciates holes in special walls. Gime, Beh, and special Gourg sets play the role of special breaker for Golduck well. Zwei pairs nicely, tanking special attackers and checking Gourgs. Magmar and Heatmor break well with Golduck. Heatmor's Knock softens up the many bulky Evios of ZU. Mime and Gorse both have HWish to keep Duck swimming.
If you've played on ladder, you're familiar with RainDuck. This isn't uncalled for, as Duck's a great weather sweeper. Modest helps out Duck's middling 95 SpA, and +2 Duck already outspeeds the entire boosted meta. However, Duck struggles to set Rain given its below average bulk, so Timid helps rainless sweeps.
Golduck is exciting for the tier, but comes when Palp is making a resurgence, Poli is a prime wall, and ladder Rain teams are addicted to using it as a Swift Swimmer. As the meta settles, Golduck will likely blossom into a great offensive Water-type pivot. Duck's presence gives VoltTurn teams a new dimension to play in with offensive Flip Turn. Having a good, new, and fast Scarfer is healthy for the tier as well.
Like any Gen 1 Pokemon, Duck's movepool burgeons with moves accumulated over decades. Though its stats may be middling, Duck is flexible!
Scarf and Specs are neat, but what's with all the hazard chip, man? Chill out on the speed and power with Boots. Bootsduck has flexibility to change moves, running Toxic with less impunity to punish Palp and Poli as switchins.
Without Specs' breaking power or Scarf's speed control, you'll need other mons to fill in the gaps. Specs Poli fills these old shoes quite well, though stacks typings, so you may be better off running an electric rat instead for VoltTurning. Scarf Mime/Gime make for great speed control with nice utility to boot.
Daffy (Golduck) @ Choice Band
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Flip Turn
Duck's 95 SpA is not much higher than its 82 Atk, so why not capitalize on that, similar coverage, and Flip Turn with CB? The power loss is noticeable compared to special sets, but if you can lure in a special wall and hit it on its more tender side, that's what counts, right?
Banded Cross Chop and Iron Tail are theoretical options you could run, but I don't want to go too far with a funny joke set.
With a good speed tier, typing, and lures, Duck is a competent SubTox abuser. And I mean this for real this time, instead of when I throw SubToxic in the other options because I'm out of ideas. Scald and Toxic are great at spreading status together. Ice Beam is relevant for hitting Grasses, Ivy and Gourg in particular. Although, Psychic can be equally helpful for hitting resident Poison annoyance, Mare.
Another Sub set, though this time featuring CM. The switches Duck forces with its other sets are great for CM, especially if you're in on a passive mon like Mare. In fact, Psychic is to hit Mare. Ice Beam is a slashed option, as even though you'll end up hazed into oblivion, not risking PP stall by Vespi while catching Gourg on the switch can be of its own use.
Life Vest (Golduck) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Psychic / Focus Blast
- Flip Turn
A simulacra of the Specs set, given Boots was a derivative. However, AVduck can be handy for taking a resisted or weak special hit or two from Magmar, Heatmor, or Gime, and then proceeding to KO or chunk them.
Diver (Golduck) @ Leftovers
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Encore
- Flip Turn
Is this just Poli with a pivoting move and better speed? Yes. Does that mean you should use Poli instead? Well, maybe, but you'd miss out on getting to Encore mons Poli isn't fast enough for! Think: Falinks and Dred.
Duck Mind (Golduck) @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam / Psychic
Okay NOW the sets get weird, if you didn't think that already. With sleep, setup, an inaccurate STAB, and a speed tier that beats the whole boosted meta at +2, Golduck is a pretty funky little gimmick abuser with Blunder Policy. In fact, you can sort of proc the Policy against Palp or Poli if you're desperate by Hydro Pumping them, though that'd be silly (do it for me).
Six Swans (Golduck) @ Leftovers
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Liquidation
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
The mangum opus of weird Golduck sets: Cursetalk, to show appreciation for gen 2. It's not great, but with scant water immunities... worth a shot after you take a few shots.
This post is already getting long and this tier has already had a Gourgeist deluxe before the shifts hit, so I'll make this quicker. I won't be listing any sets really, as the same great sets Largeist had apply to both of the other Gourgs.
Normgeist is one I don't see making headway in ZU. The stats of the Large and Small forms differentiate themselves. I believe everyone else who has played with Gourg knows this as well, so it doesn't require much qualification.
On the other hand, I foresee Smallgeist becoming one of the most important Pokemon in the tier. 99 Spe and the typing/moves of already beloved Largeist mean Smallgeist has no problem bending the tier to its will. That's not to say Smallgeist is broken, but just VERY good.
Heatmor has teased ZU over SS with its persistently low PU usage. Magmar served as an excellent Fire-type breaker in the few days of the NFE CT meta, and Heatmor is a cool sidegrade. Knock, physicality, and prio mean Heatmor doesn't mind being slower, so long as it has niche-worthy traits.
Wyrmtongue (Heatmor) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Power Whip
Magnifying Lens (Heatmor) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Scorching Sands
- Knock Off
Ant Heater (Heatmor) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Scorching Sands
Firebrand (Heatmor) @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Stomping Tantrum
Offenisve Fire type with Knock makes Heat a top threat. There's a deluge of rain on ladder, but as the meta settles, Heat's unpredictability and customizability will keep it a viable pick in ZU. I don't have room in this post to explain sets, but I will include some fun bonus sets to play with :)
Second Degree (Heatmor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Lash
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Taunt
Ant Trap (Heatmor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Protect
I don't have much to say on Lux other than I think it's overused by inexperienced players and underrated by experienced ones. Intimidate, Volt, high attack, and decent physical coverage mean Lux shouldn't be completely overlooked.
So I'm actually out of space to put anything else in this post LOL. New drops are in a few hours, so hopefully I'll figure out how to talk about those, the Vallies, ZUBL stuff, and ZU veterans that remain in the meta in less than 65k characters!
As time goes on, I think CB will emerge as Dred's best set, lending consistency. However, I also think that a high rank is contingent on how explosive future wallbreakers may be in comparison
A set i would like to promote is Scarf .. He reach a nice speed tier and can be a nice surprise outspeeding everything especially opposing rain sweeper.
The set:
Dundee (Drednaw) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Throat Chop/Toxic
Ok so we got ~35 new drops in two weeks and the tier is a big mess so im here with my expert and 100% accurate opinion to tell you all what is broken and needs to get banned. *insert joke about toto banning stuff day 1 here*
First up we got Drednaw. This thing is just ridiculous under rain thanks to its massive 115 base attack, great base 74 speed and access to SD.
This monster has very little defensive counterplay and is basically unstoppable after an SD bar defensive palpitoad and its offensive counterplay is not much better with stuff like grookey, scarf dugtrio or scarf Boltund being the only answers. I think a drednaw ban is very warranted and should be done asap. Even without Drednaw rain will still be one of the best playstyles thanks to it receiving new drops such as relicanth and Armaldo.
Next up we got Falinks, monster number 2. This problem with this mon in my opinion is the fact that is it very versatile as it has 3 or maybe even 4 excellence set such as all of attacker with first impression, No Retreat, Swords dance or even double dance. Imo none of the sets are broken on their own unlike Drednaw under rain although arguments could be made for some of falinks sets being broken too. The main problem is the factor of not knowing which set it is running. This is due to the checks and counters not overlapping for the different sets. For example faster mons such as the mimes and Rapidash-Galar have no trouble revenge killing the SD set however if the set is no retreat then failinks now outspeeds them. This works in reverse too with there being a handfull of mons who can counter Failinks at +1 but are not counters when its at +2 such as Mareanie and Gourgeist-Large.
Although cute, these two terrain setters need to go go. Grookey has gone 3-3 before on a ban slate and that was when it was only Grookey + Trev in the tier and the council was undecided on to ban Grookey or Trevenant which caused mixed voting. Now we have new abusers in Rapidash-Galar and lilligant and well as returing threats such as Mushurna, Trevenant and dare I say the S word Swoobat (although zubl for the time being. Thank god). Pincurchin is also here thanks to it also being able to help activate the seed abusers like Grookey as well as providing Rising Voltage spam for the plethora of new Electric types Zu has accumulated over the recent shift.
Although it has only been 1 day and I know the ZU council like having time to test stuff to make up their minds, Type:Null needs to go too. Its just too damn fat with a ridiculous 95 base Defence, Special defence and HP as well as a 1.5x defences boost from Eviolite. It also has access to the move that sends shivers down Zu players spines, Iron Defence . But don't worry its really slow and ill just crit it I hear you saying, well good luck with that because this things ability is Battle Armor so it cant be struck by a critical hit.
In Conclusion I think both rain and terrain are both unhealthy for the tier and makes it less enjoyable to play. I think both playstyles are pretty brainless and you can win most of the time by just being on autopilot with the occasional read when your opponent is trying to stall out turns. I would say that Falinks is the weakest mon on the list and that it quite a big deal as a week ago Falinks was thought to be the most broken mon. If I was council I would quick ban all of these mons and also argue that another 5 mons could be on a slate in a few weeks time. This may seems like alot of mons but we got 35 mons this month and im only asking for a ban of 5 so shhhhhhh. Final thoughts Ban Stonjourner
Take it from the top! DAWN OF THE SECOND DAY: 48 HOURS REMAIN
For brevity's sake, I'll be separating the team aspects of this post into a post in the set and team dump thread. Now I can finally talk about drops without going over character limit, woohoo!
SONG OF TIME (ZU VETERANS)
Gothitelle: FINALLY we have one of the nastiest wincons in the tier back after ANOTHER PU stint (remember the one earlier this year?) Gothitelle won't be pulling its Stored Power + Restalk antics as securely anymore now that Pawniard is here. Pawn's existence entirely invalidates almost anything Gothitelle tries to do to force the Stored Power issue, SDing up to break through its boosts, Knocking its Leftovers, and being immune to Toxic. However, what Goth can do is run some of the most vile Grassy/Electric Seed sets with Stored Power instead... that still fall victim to exactly the same pitfalls, and now compete with Musharna, Gony, and the other Psychic types present in the tier who would love to do its job better. I'm not exactly a Goth lover (Duo gang), but I truly think Goth is not going to stick in the current ZU meta.
Leafeon: When we needed Leafeon most during the Grassy Terrain meta... it vanished. Nah, but really, Leafeon has a great time on teams as an emergency measure against Grassy Terrain, Rain, and potentially even Electric Terrain. Like with last time, offensive, CB, and Scarf sets look to be great in the mid-CT meta. Its lacking coverage still sticks out, but Knock compromises softer switch-ins like Roselia, Ivysaur, or Gourgeist. With that, we now have Mawile and Bouffalant dominating the tier. Leafeon will, in my opinion, probably end up mid-high at best, but I'm still excited to use it. Vespiquen not getting to switch in for free against a Grass looks like a lot of fun.
Pincurchin: I actually don't think anyone really missed this thing. Pincurchin doesn't exactly revive Electric Terrain per se, seeing as we had no viable abusers when it was around. Instead, Pincurchin now creates the archetype, with a pool of Electric types and Electric Seed equipped Psychics to support. Pincurchin, like with before, I think is unhealthy for the tier, and I would really like to see it put on a slate before November is over. I understand that calling for bans in an already chaotic meta that will change again in less than two weeks is asking a lot, but I don't think the little prick has much to offer to the tier right now.
Raboot: I didn't get to play all that much with Raboot when it was here, but from my understanding it was a very potent force in the meta. Though Libero's release is what made Raboot so powerful, it did have the very distinct privilege of being one of few viable Fire types in a restricted meta. Heatmor and Magmar's presence challenges Raboot in this regard. Heatmor's great mixed attacking potential and access to Knock allow it to stand for itself and compensate for its low speed. Meanwhile, Magmar, though a point of speed slower, has a great 100 SpA that can be further bolstered by Choice Specs. Raboot is likely going to need to function as an offensive pivot, because its bulk just doesn't cut it in this more crept meta.
Trevenant: Nice of NU to give this back (thanks a lot for giving birth to Grassy Terrain in NU kay -_-). Grassy Terrain can go absolutely ape once more now that its biggest banded abuser is back. Musharna being freed and Gony being here too mean that Trevenant now has good partners again for the archetype. At the same time, Leafeon has also returned, meaning Trev has one of its old checks back. A number of great Fire types have joined the ranks of ZU, as well as some other grass-resists like physically defensive Mawile and Pawniard. I could go either way on seeing Grassy Terrain as overwhelming or just a strong playstyle. Mostly, there just needs to be more time for the meta to develop. Glad to have this weird sidegrade to Gourg back though.
SONG OF DOUBLE TIME (OLD PU STUFF)
Boltund: It's funny to see something that was RU at the beginning of this gen fall from grace so hard that it lands in our tier, but who's going to say no to a free Electric type? Boltund is something I think will mostly be just a slight upgrade, if not a sidegrade for the Electric types we already. have. Gourgeist and Ivysaur have been our go-to Electric checks for quite a bit, seeing as they resist Raichu and Dedenne's coverage moves, unlike the Ground types you would assume to be more reliable. Emolga had the coverage to check the Grasses pretty well, but it was never really at the top of the list. Even Luxray, for its short time in the meta, put pressure on Gourgeist with Guts or Intimidate with Crunch or status. Boltund, on the physical side, is a pretty significant addition. My main concern is that it will compete with Manectric too much for its own good, but with Strong Jaw, Bulk Up, physicality, some interesting coverage options, and a very special base 121 Speed, I think it will be near the top of the meta.
Crustle: This thing is going to make setup spam HO so stupid LOL. Shell Smash with access to rocks, Spikes, Knock, and Sturdy or Weak Armor means Crustle gets to take picks from teams lacking priority or fast scarfers easily. Hattrem isn't going to be blocking its hazards either for fear of X-Scissor or Knock Off. I'm kind of expecting to see Crustle on a slate or something. It doesn't have Z-Moves to break through checks to the same capacity it did in SM, but Heavy-Duty Boots means that it doesn't have to worry about Sturdy being compromised by hazards. I really think this thing should be looked at critically at this point in the meta.
Cursola: Another sad story of a Gen 8 Pokemon that wasn't able to keep up in the tier it was originally in, and then once more in a lower tier. Cursola now holds the title of most powerful special attacker in the tier at base 145, blowing Beheeyem's base 125 out of the water, and even holding first place above fellow drop Glaceon's (base 130) head. Cursola's flimsy physical bulk and low speed hold it back from being a reliable tank, especially with its vulnerability to all hazards. A Choice Specs breaker set might be very good at breaking apart stall teams or with Webs support. I also think there's merit to trying out lead sets given its access to rocks, or setup-type sets that rely on Weak Armor, Meteor Beam, or even Calm Mind for some boosts. Cursola is another weird mon I could go 50/50 on for "it's broken / it's underwhelming", but I want to play with it a bit more first. The presences of Bouffalant, Falinks, and Pawniard might make it a flop, but there's also the possibility that it gets to tear apart defensive teams too easily for its own good.
Glaceon: Glaceon, unlike its leafy sibling, has been dangled over our heads for the entire generation up to this point. Access to Freeze-Dry making it a more viable special attacker is exciting, though it still doesn't have amazing all-around coverage, still has a striking rocks weakness, and still has a terrible defensive typing in tandem with bad speed. A cleric set could be interesting, but Glaceon's reliance on Boots means it isn't getting Leftovers recovery, and its typing lets it down once more. I foresee Glaceon being a great special breaker, but nothing really more than that until the power creep jeopardizes its spot. Ice to meet you though!
Lapras: Say hello to your PRT (Politoed Replacement Therapy). As we lose one of our most integral bulky Waters, Lapras comes down to fill the void. No access to Scald for spreading burns is disappointing, but Freeze-Dry is really nice for not giving Palpitoad or Mareanie as free of switches. We've had Specs Waters before (Alpha Octillery, IoA Whiscash, early CT Golduck), but Lapras' coverage between Freeze-Dry and Thunderbolt is very enticing, and might be worth running here or there. Lapras will be something I see ending up as a high or mid level pick, though it won't be as consistent at the current moment in time IMO.
Manectric: Much of what I said about Boltund applies to Manectric, but more on the special side. It is SO refreshing not to have to use some electric rat as an offensive Volt Switch pivot. Manectric's coverage really puts running your Electric-check as Gourgeist/Ivysaur/Shiinotic in the ground. Speaking of Ground, Mudbray, Palpitoad, SpDef Hippo, and Vibrava now have more justification on teams with Manectric's presence and limited coverage. Mane looks to be an excellent fast Scarfer and Specs user, with more immediate power than Raichu had. I think it will be in fierce competition with Boltund and Raichu as a fast Electric pivot, but Mane takes the cake for the one that will monopolize Scarf and Specs sets.
Mr. Rime: We've unjustifiably had Rime's prevo for a significant amount of ZU, and now we unjustifiably get Rime itself! Our bulky spinners have become more and more lacking as time has gone on. Wartortle and Carkol just don't stand up to the power creep anymore. Rime's bulk and defensive typing aren't amazing, but reliable recovery on a spinner is cool. The increased immediate power at the cost of some speed can also be handy for breaking bulkier teams, and Rime can be hard to revenge kill if it gets a spin unless you have priority or a scarfer. I'll also be excited to see if Specs ends up making waves in the meta too. Excited to use this one, even if Gime was kind of a precursor.
Pawniard: Pawniard is a neat anti-removal mon by virtue of both Defiant and its good matchup against the Defoggers of the tier (Vespi hates Knock, Rock/Icevally fear its STAB and don't hit effectively with Multi-Attack, and Rime/Gime don't get to spin safely thanks to Sucker Punch. Pawn's going to be a great gluemon for offensive teams. It might have some issues with Falinks being everywhere, but it's cool to have something that can check Mushy, Geists, Gime, Rime, and a couple of other top threats.
Roselia: Another great NFE PU gluemon that I'm excited to finally have once more, especially after it was rudely stolen last gen. Roselia is a nice T-Spike user that isn't the ugly little tumor that Mareanie is. Toxic Spikes, Spikes, and Sleep are all great, and the flexibility to run it offensively or defensively expands teambuilding possibilities. There's a lot of threatening Fire and Psychic types in the meta right now unfortunately, but Rose will be a great hazard setting glue for balance and offense.
Stunfisk: Speaking of another great gluemon, hey there ex-PU staple! It's kind of ridiculous to me that this thing floundered so badly it fell, but we take that. Rocks, paralysis, and a fully evolved Ground type that can run Leftovers makes this thing sort of a messiah for a tier that has been starved for so long. Spreading two types of status with Toxic, Discharge, Static, and/or Thunder Wave is super impressive for a wall, and the passive chances of paralysis can either hax you a few games on lucky turns or help to neutralize the plenty of fast threats we now have. I'm not entirely certain how great it's going to be if Rain and now Grassy Terrain are being spammed, but it's a pretty decent check to Electric Terrain teams. I'm crossing my fingers hoping this stays long enough that I can become annoyed with it instead of having to wave farewell if PU slurps up its own backwash.
Type: Null: Yucky. An absolute menace last gen with Iron Defense, Restalk, Swords Dance, and whatever else it wants. The cut of Return/Frustration limits it somewhat, but Crush Claw replacing them just means your games can be left more in the hands of chance. I would not be surprised to see Type: Null end up on a slate, because we don't have a wide variety of checks for it. Restalk Machoke might be acceptable if you luck out with confusion, but apart from that, very few mons actually deal with Type: Null. Sure you can stall it out and Haze with Dusclops or run Sacred Sword Honedge, but that's never really been the sign of a very healthy mon.
NEW WAVE BOSSA NOVA (ISLE OF ARMOR DROPS)
Lilligant: Now languishing in destitution after losing everything (Hidden Power and Z-Moves), Lilligant has been disgraced enough to become ZU. Quiver Dance sets don't have much over the already mediocre Bellossom save for better SpA and fast sleep, but the coverage options are almost even worse, and it lacks Strength Sap. Instead, I think Lilligant might see better use at the moment as a fast Scarfer. Being able to check some Rain picks is nice, and Healing Wish on a Scarfer calls back to the dark days of Scarf Cherrim in Alpha. I don't see Lilligant making waves necessarily, given how much it relies on matchup. Maybe try a Specs set when (if) the meta settles?
Marowak: The far more exciting pick between the two Isle of Armor drops. Marowak's explosive power, pure Ground typing, move flexibility, coverage, and access to both Knock Off and Stealth Rock will make it an incredible pick for balance and bulky offense teams. The compression Maro provides is akin to Mawile, but more in an offensive sense. Checking Boltund isn't bad either. Marowak won't exactly be replacing any other Grounds in the current meta (Mudbray's bulk, Hippo's recovery, Vibrava's Defog, and Palp's water immunity are all highly valuable), but it takes the cake as our best one offensively.
OATH TO ORDER (CROWN TUNDRA DROPS)
Armaldo: A Swift Swim sweeper with Swords Dance... now where have I heard that one before? Armaldo slots into Rain teams very easily with access to edgequake, Aqua Jet, and Knock Off, but it gently competes with Drednaw for this slot. Drednaw's speed and STAB are definitely its own selling points. Like Drednaw, Armaldo also has great options outside of Rain. Of particular note is that Armaldo can both spin and set rocks, though the spinning aspect is much more intriguing. The utility and speed boost Rapid Spin provides makes Armaldo a boon for bulky offense teams. Armaldo even has the bulk to work as a slower spinner, though moving second can be annoying. Knock Off is a great way to make the Ghosts of the tier fear switching in, which no other spinner in the tier can claim. Overall, this should end up a high level pick, high mid at worst, at least for the time being. The torrent of Rain on ladder will easily buoy Armaldo.
Calyrex: Finally, Megamind 2. Quips on its absurd design aside, Calyrex is an interesting new face for the tier. It's got a pretty good array of utility and offensive options, as so many mythical and legendary Pokemon do. Agility, Aromatherapy, Calm Mind, Encore, Leech Seed, Screens, Safeguard, Trick, and Trick Room serve to make Calyrex a great team player and offensive support. Its typing leaves a lot to be desired, and its coverage walks a line between Beheeyem's "okay I guess" and Lilligant's "for the love of god", so those may end up holding it back from much major success. I really recommend trying Subseed out, but I don't expect Calyrex to really be defining the tier by any means.
Relicanth: Oh look, another Swift Swim mon! Being a hyper offensive setter for Rain is pretty cool, seeing as Drednaw would have to run Focus Sash instead of Damp Rock. Choice Band sets would maybe be a bit cooler if we didn't already have a mine of Rock type attackers to draw from. The no recoil Rock STAB is intriguing, but Sudowoodo has been trying to do that for some time in ZU, often to little success. With competition on all sides from Drednaw, Armaldo, Rockvally, and Lycanroc-Midnight, I don't see Relicanth making many waves.
Walrein: Sealing the deal on November's Crown Tundra drops, Walrein. It still doesn't have Freeze-Dry or Scald, nor can it run Leftovers and Boots at the same time, so defensive sets are still subpar. What is very intriguing about Walrein is its newfound access to both Swords Dance and Body Press. Offensive sets with SD might be a fun choice with strong speed control options to compensate for Walrein's middling Attack and bad speed. I'm very intrigued by Curse sets that could run Body Press to capitalize on defensive boosts, but I don't see them really taking off either. I expect Walrein to mostly be mid at best, and probably low by the time the wave of CT hype is over.
SONG OF SOARING (RISES)
The loss of Smallgeist is actually kind of devastating. Though only here for two weeks, Smallgeist established itself as one of the top ten mons in the early-mid Crown Tundra meta. A Gourg needs little introduction for how effective it is in a lower tier, but Smallgeist specifically brought a great 99 base Speed to the equation, something Largeist had been lacking. I mourn its loss, especially given that itemless sets are very potent against Grassy Terrain teams.
It's time to put Polidab back up on the shelf, because our boi is no longer with us :(
The loss of Poli is pretty significant, as it was our best bulky water, save perhaps for Palpitoad's resurgence. Sure we have Lapras and Walrein now, but with their rocks weaknesses and lack of access to Scald, they don't exactly pick up where Poli left off. Whiscash being the Leftovers + Scald + Toxic bulky water is fine I guess, given that it has a pretty good standing against Boltund and Manectric.
Charja nation wins.
SONG OF HEALING (ZUBL)
I didn't talk much on the freed ZUBL last time, and while I won't be making that mistake again, I won't waste any more time.
Grapploct had strikingly low usage in the first half of November. Part of this may just be that the tier had a slew of other new toys to play with as Falinks, Gapidash, and Rain dominated the ladder. There's a place in ZU for more defensive and bulky Fighting types, but the higher power of the metagame means that Grapploct isn't getting as many opportunities to setup as it did prior to its ban. With that, the trapper set isn't able to feed off of how threatening the other sets are if they aren't feared as much, so that takes out a huge facet of what made Grapploct broken. Maybe the meta hasn't settled enough for Grapploct to really get a grip, but I do not see it being as unhealthy as it was in the PikaStonKlang meta.
Lycanroc-Midnight feasted on the tier for the short time it was present in October. The meta was already pretty strained and centralized around Stonjourner, so another Rock-type attacker with reliable STAB, SD, priority, and different coverage just proved to be too much. This time around, Lycanroc-Midnight is in a very hostile environment of Rain run rampant and terrains terrorizing the meta. Air Balloon isn't even as reliable, as our new Grounds frequently run coverage and threaten to leave it with status (Stunfisk) or just straight up KO it (Marowak). Lycan's speed tier isn't nearly as attractive as it once was now that Golduck, Dubwool, Gapidash, Manectric, and Boltund prowl the meta. Lycan can still be super threatening, but even in that, it receives stiff competition from Rockvally, which has equally reliable and powerful Rock STAB, SD, and a slew of other coverage moves to break through its checks. Lycan will still be a top threat, but it does not warrant a ban or even a slate at the moment. Also pupy :)
Musharna is one of the few freed ZUBLs I've seen murmurings on still being broken. You might not pick up on this if you were looking at the usage stats for the month, but stats don't tell a full story. From both playing extensively with and against Musharna, it can still be a stupid thick mon that both refuses to die and can bowl over teams. Sure, Rain limited its healing and it faced competition from Gony, but the elephant can very easily overcome its checks if given opportunities to set up a CM. I'm sure opinion on Musharna will still be spilt as we move into a meta both filled with Terrain spam and Rain spam simultaneously. Bugvally and Mawile of the last shift definitely give it a few problems, and now Crustle, Pawniard, and Cursola can give it trouble in their own unique ways (setup, immunity, breaking power). I would be unsurprised if Musharna was seen or became seen as unhealthy enough to warrant being put back on a slate, but I also don't think its in an optimal meta for it too. I'd rather wait and see how the meta develops before any measure is made against Mushy.
Crazy Ex-PUBL now being ZUBL again warrants at least a quick discussion. With Terrains in the meta still, I do NOT want to see this thing freed in any capacity. However, for momentary devil's advocacy, I do want to note that we now have Pawniard, FImpression Falinks, and fast mons and scarfers like Boltund, Manectric, and the Swift Swim crew that are capable of revenging it or beating it before it can set up properly. I do want to emphasize though that many of these checks are shaky at best, and we still don't have consistent Swoobat answers beyond Zweilous (who has seen declining use ;-;). Pls don't free this thing.
Those are most of my thoughts on how the meta has progressed, though I haven't touched on some of the older stuff that has stuck around (Largeist, Grookey, Hattrem, Meowstic, Pikachu, Icevally), but I don't think I'd do them justice in this post. Anyway, happy playing!
Hey everyone! I haven't posted in a long time so I figured now that we know what are all the new toys and what they do we can sort out what it's being an issue and should be worthy of a possible ban.
Drednaw it's so dumb rn because rain is stupid good even if it may be inconsistent. Rain flaws happens when playing rather than because of the mu. Realistically rain has always a good mu unless your opponent has palpitoad this being the only reliable 'not niche' counter that this mon has when rain is up. Getting Drednaw out will nerf the playstyle enough even tho itll still be pretty good as we got other abusers but none of them is as threatening as Drednaw is. This mon needs to get ban no doubt about that.
Mon number 2 that its dumb as hell. Falinks just takes what Grapploct was in pre-dlc meta to the next stage. I think people really sleep on how good this mon actually is. Falinks can win games on its own with very little support just needing to get positioned right as it only needs one turn to setup. Falinks chooses its few counters on whether coverage itll be running and you gotta hope that Falinks cant touch the check you've bring. I can't consider mons like cursola and calyrex even checks to this as they're just too frail. Colbur mons like gourg and mush are kinda easy to pressure and get koffed with mons like mareanie so Falinks can sweep later. Only real counter to this is Vespiquen because falinks cant afford to run rock slide but quen just doesnt like the meta rn being an uncommon pick rn. Also not only players have to guess what coverage falinks is running but also what set it is first as both SD and No retreat are extremely good. SD punishing slower bulkier teams and No retreat aiming for a sweep outspeeding its offensive counterplay. Adding that also CB or all-out sets exists and make this mon having too much versatility and offensive presence. Ngl this mon its really fun to play but that doesnt take the fact that its busted. Fan Balinks.
Terrain + friends are back and they both as good as ever. Too good for what they are imo. We now have a plethora of new abusers of both terrains such as Gapidash, Lilligant, Musharna, old trev, Manectric and even Cursola. Too many mons can abuse terrain rn and considering that in previous meta grookey was consider as a possible ban only for Trev means that something needs to be done now. I've seen actually a good quantity of Shedinja running on real teams to counter these guys and when Shedinja is your answer smth isnt right. I also think that people sleep on electric spam. Rn main ground type is stunfisk, palp and maybe marowak which are pretty good ngl but ground types doesnt feel that mandatory as they suck against other common meta playstyles like rain lol, and eterrain can run lilligant to get bypass through them. Unlike grookey, Pincurchin provides support and more offensiveness in electric + water, spikes/t spikes and recovery and because of teams prefering stuff like mawile, metang or crustle as their rocker, ground types are uncommon enough like I said to let a mon like manectric Rising voltage through your team with ease. These two also need to go.
Last thoughts Imma say that playing this meta its really fun as theres so much broken playstyles that honestly you can't be prepared for all of them reliably and it could turn unenjoyable if you take it seriously. I didn't talk about Null of SS crustle which I think ppl are sleeping on and they just reinforce what I said before. Tbh I don't think anything will get banned cuz we are PU but reversed but if shifts shake the meta again these guys can just be reincorporated imo. I think at least we can agree that the meta its hella unbalanced, rn I would prefer if something its touched at least.
A matchup i want to talk is rain vs terrain.
The best thing of rain is water STAB being also busted by it and having plétora of Swift swimmers to choose from (mainly and Specs , but , and ).
Against Electric terrain Seaking become your salvation when the rain goes off, but most rain abuser can clearly 6-0 bc of the fragilty of electric terrain.
Against Grassy Terrain the thing change tranks to Grassy Glide ignoring the boost on speed in rain. In this matchup Armaldo is king having the bulk to take a few Glide and hitting hard with STAB
In my personal opinion i think a rain team rn can be formed like this:
In usual fashion, I'll be dividing thoughts on the meta into separate little sections so that this isn't just a big wall. There's about four aspects of the meta I want to analyze: popular Hyper Offense Archetypes (which will be broken down into subsections), vanilla Offense styles, new Balance, and the last of Stall. Happy reading!
Aspect 1: TerRain HO Spam
Hyper offense built around the three archetypes of Electric Terrain, Grassy Terrain, Trick Room, and especially Rain has been almost suffocating the tier as of late. For players that have continued to play the metagame, this aspect contributes to the polar negative opinion on the meta. Part 1: Rain
Drednaw is the primary culprit of Rain HO, where teams that run Rain should never be running without it. Golduck is almost always obligatory on Rain as well, hitting on the special side as well as beating out the fast scarfers that Drednaw doesn't outspeed. Team support for Rain is better than it's ever been as well, with Meowstic, Wigglytuff, and Relicanth being the most prominent. Rain also still has many of the Electric Rats, particularly Raichu and Emolga, that act as great abusers and speed control for Rain teams when their weather isn't up.
Playing around Rain isn't impossible. Fakespeed Pikachu stalls out Rain turns with flinches, disregards the speed boost of Golduck to threaten a KO, and can Volt around freely (as many Rain teams lack a Ground type). Manectric, particularly with a Scarf, is great for outspeeding Adamant Drednaw, absorbing Meowstic's Thunder Wave (or Emolga's Volt Switch), though Raichu works similarly and has access to Surf/Grass Knot for not being shut down by an opposing Electric.
Defensively, Rain, and especially Drednaw, can be overwhelming, but beating them in the builder isn't unheard of. Palpitoad and Hakamo-o have been saved from near obscurity for resisting Drednaw's dual STAB. Without reliable recovery though, the two can be broken if not played carefully. Pawniard and Leafeon are two great offensive and defensive options. Leafeon's natural bulk makes it a decent Drednaw countermeasure, while Pawniard gets to click SD freely in the face of Rain's more passive setters. Both have Knock Off for further team support, and Pawniard's priority is likewise great for dealing with Golduck.
With all of that said, Rain still has been extremely oppressive on ladder. Matchup fishing with Rain is at its peak, and so many battles are decided at preview by whether or not you brought a team that was built to be antimeta (likely win vs Rain), an opposing HO archetype that can out-offense Rain (50/50), or something else (likely lose vs Rain). The some council members put out feelers for putting Drednaw on a slate, as seen in the discord, but any actual action or statements from the council members were frustratingly flaccid. I get that there are meta shifts in two weeks, but the lack of action on Drednaw with it in the tier for the whole month means that the meta was not great to play, and just checking out of a meta is not super fair to players who are more interested in playing, even if for just a few weeks. If there were concerns about the health of the meta during a few weeks of ZUPL, there should be action taken during this period too. Part 2: Electric Terrain
Terrains have been running rampant once more on the ladder, and Grookey isn't alone as the only setter anymore. Pincurchin has returned for twin terrain terror as it once had with Thwackey in June. The difference now is that the abusers we have are even more equipped to tear the meta apart. June was a frustrating and somewhat stale meta, but Electric Terrain was more of general team support by blocking Rest against bulky Eviolite builds. Manectric, Boltund, and Raichu all make for very potent abusers with Rising Voltage. Manectric's high special attack and Switcheroo stands out against the other two and is the most obvious abuser. Boltund does have the better speed tier and hits from the physical side, but Physical sets generally won't be running Rising Voltage and have the same general coverage as Manectric. Boltund has access to Competitive for deterring Defogging Pincurchin's support (screens or spikes) away if you want to go special, but running Special Boltund is extremely awkward, as your coverage is distinctly worse (though you can pull off some funny little techs with Throat Spray and Hyper Voice / Snarl). Raichu has both Nasty Plot and anti-Ground coverage at its disposal. Pikachu with Spikes support is amazing as always, and Musharna, Galarian Rapidash, and Beheeyem just have new seeds to try and abuse with this.
Electric Terrain is one of the "softer" HO archetype styles to deal with offensively, as it doesn't have inherent means of defying the priority bracket or boosting speed beyond the range of most Scarfers. Dugtrio has some relevancy now as a fast physical Ground type that is near the top of the speed charts without use of a Scarf. Physical Scarf Gony (please try it out I'm begging), scarf Leafeon, and Scarf Gourgeist are pretty competent offensive ways to deal with many of the speedy E-Terrain abusers. For breaking through the Seed abusers, Cursola muscles through much of the defensive boosts of the bulky Psychics, Bugvally has a good shot at breaking through on the physical side, and Bouffalant can usually take a hit or two before going down while doing a godly amount of damage between either boosting with SD or breaking with CB.
Defensively dealing with Electric Terrain is a different story. Stunfisk is a very reliable catch-all to Electric Terrain teams, but Surf Raichu at +2 will OHKO it after rocks. Palpitoad is another great apparent check, though it has to be wary of letting Gorse in for free or Grass Knot Raichu. With those mentioned though, Marowak, your own Pincurchin (Lightning Rod), Roselia, Hakamo-o, Whiscash, and Vibrava are all great ways to defensively check the Electrical abusers of the terrain. Pawniard, Krokorok, and Mawile can themselves be decent stops to the Seed Abusers, Pawniard in particular standing out once more.
Like with Rain, I think Electric Terrain is pretty unhealthy for the metagame as a whole. I realize that it may not be as pressing as dealing with Rain in particular, but it's still an obnoxious way to matchup fish that has made the metagame less fun to play for more defensive playstyles. I don't want to spoil this post entirely, but Electric Terrain on its own wouldn't even be so bad if there weren't three other HO playstyles choking ZU to death at the moment. It just so happens that Electric Terrain is one of the HO styles that is turning the meta into a much more rock-paper-scissors type affair with matchups. This might be a hot take, but I think Pincurchin in particular is worth being looked at for the way it enables the playstyle as a whole. Recovery might be better in the tier than it once was, where Pincurchin dominating Rest Eviolite users in June, but it's difficult to run more defensive playstyles when you have to keep Electric Terrain mind. Oftentimes, it's pretty much that you run Stunfisk or Palpitoad as your Grounds, and then Bouffalant. I've heard it said that this meta is finally fun because we have so many more options now compared to a bunch of prevos that have linear movesets and item options (and I've been one of the people saying that). However, it's begun to feel like this meta is almost worse, as if you're not running HO, you're pressured into running a few specific blanket checks to ETerrain and GTerrain and Rain all at once.
Part 3: Grassy Terrain
Funne monke has been back to its old tricks for the past... yeah. But now, it has Trevenant back to wreck shop on the meta once more. Thankfully, the meta now has Bouffalant to deal with both the bulky Grassy Seed abusers and Grassy Glide in one convenient slot. However, I'm actually inclined to say that Grassy Terrain is even more powerful, if not more matchup fish-y (wordplay incoming), thanks to Rain. Grassy Glide is perfect against the fragile, weak, or both abusers on Rain, and the only thing often lacking on a Grassy Terrain team is a distinct way to bully Rain setters aside from Raichu.
Trevenant's return is definitely the main force driving Grassy Terrain forward in the metagame, but Rain's presence and dominance also helps the style out. This isn't just in terms of matchup against Rain, but how Rain forces the meta into very specific builds. Many balance or bulky offense teams have to be more wary of running picks that were previously potent in the metagame. Magmar and Heatmor were great boons as breakers on offense teams, but their vulnerabilities to Rain mean their usage has been declining, giving Grassy Terrain a much easier time. Rain's forcing of Palpitoad as an emergency water-immunity on builds gives some of the easiest free switches in the world to Trevenant, which doesn't fear any type of status from Scald or Toxic thanks to Natural Cure. Vespiquen being a liability against Electric Terrain and Rain both means that it isn't defining the metagame like it once was, making Grassy Glide freer and freer to click. Stunfisk's drop also rivals Mawile for a slot as a bulky rocker on a team, which G-Terrain teams lick their lips at. I'd also like to point out that Lilligant can be extremely dangerous and is an underrated addition to G-Terrain teams. Being able to sleep a common Grass-resist or switch-in and then set up or allow a different teammate in to abuse can be great. Lilligant also has the liberty of running its own Grassy Seed to act like a discount Bellossom, giving it a bit more leverage against priority users and taking a hit while setting up. Rockvally, Lycanroc-Midnight, and Mawile are new (but not newer), great beneficiaries of the Earthquake power reduction, and they can check the Vullabies, Vespiquens, and Bouffalants that irritate GTerrain so much.
Checking Grassy Terrain is sort of at its best now, and that's mostly thanks to the buffalo of the hour that I've already mentioned. I've brought up Mawile and Vespiquen too, and if you're not sweating the rain matchup, Magmar and Heatmor are great additions. Pawniard is something I consider to be a meta panacea, and its resistance to Grassy Glide, Poltergeist, and Rock Slide makes it an amazing Trevenant check. SD + Sucker is also a boon for giving Gliders grief. Leafeon's return heralds balance's better time against the team style, and Roselia is now here to provide a more defensive option while setting up Spikes of your choice in the meantime. Raboot's Libero means it won't be as much of a deadweight Fire type in the Rain matchup. As usual, Itemless Gourg is here to be your security blanket. However, even with all these new and old stopgaps, Grassy Terrain can still be an obnoxious playstyle to build against. Your team can be stretched extremely thin between needing to check Rain, ETerrain, and Grassy Terrain all at once, meaning that you're likely going to be railroaded into just a few of the mentioned options.
Similar rules apply to checking the Seed abusers against GTerrain, though now Vullaby can be mentioned more explicitly for not giving ridiculously free switches. Toxic Restalk Stored Power Gothitelle is pretty neat to try out, as it doesn't mind Musharna's Synchronize, can outstall Gony's own Stored Power by forcing it to eventually go for Mystical Fire and get the Competitive boost, and just straight up envenomates Beheeyem. Crush Claw Type: Null is great for breaking through the bulky Psychics as well, though suffers more in the ETerrain matchup.
We've had a slate involving Grookey in the tier before, as well as votes on whether or not to look more closely at Grassy Terrain and Trevenant each. Trevenant's departure for two weeks gave us a quick insight into the meta without it, even if that was a short and chaotic glimpse. I truly believe that the problem with the playstyle lies primarily in Grookey. Grookey's mix of utility and ability to abuse its own terrain sets it apart from another setter we've had in the past, Alolan Vulpix, which was awful at dealing damage or keeping up momentum for Hail and Veil teams. I wouldn't be averse to maybe looking as Grassy Terrain in particular, but as it stands, Grassy Terrain is one of the forces that is currently suffocating the metagame. I'm tired of needing to check it and Rain on the same team, especially because the two have such disparate checks. Perhaps taking care of one would make the other more bearable, but something needs to be done, especially as we have a full month ahead of us after shifts.
Part 4 (surprise!): Trick Room
Trick Room has seen an undeniable resurgence in popularity, though primarily on ladder. It's not hard to see why: in a meta full of radical new speed control and abusing options, Trick Room is a very potent way to turn the tables. Ho3nConfirm3d made a Trick Room team for the ZU Laddering Achievements project that has been tearing up the ladder, and Trick Room itself is something I've bumped into more than once on my own time while laddering. The drops of Cursola, Marowak, and Pincurchin in particular have given the archetype fearsome new abusers to play with. TR itself has some great setters from older metas as well, with Slowpoke, Dusclops, Gourgeist, and Bronzor being great setters for the archetype. Beheeyem, Musharna, and Oranguru stand as fantastic old guard setter-abusers for the archetype as well. Trick Room can be a deadly teamstyle to play against purely because of how well it matches up against Rain and ETerrain teams while also turning the tables on a lot of the more fragile, experimental offensive builds that are run in the meta at the moment.
Checking Trick Room isn't as linear as is checking many of the more obvious HO archetypes, which I think gives TR an advantage against the other three most popular ones at the moment. Pikachu and Pawniard are once more my messiahs of the meta, giving so much breathing room against the common abusers of each archetype. Wasting turns of Trick Room with Fakespeed or setting up SD and then reverse sweeping under the room with Prio Sucker Punch just activates my almonds like nothing else in this tier. The icing on the cake is when you Knock a Marowak's Thick Club when your opponent thought it would be big brain to go hard in on you. Payback Dubwool is a pretty good stopgap to both Marowak and Cursola in one slot, but struggles against the Psychics of TR. Shadow Sneak Gourgeist is quite popular right now and deals with almost every mon on the archetype quite swimmingly, Leafeon's a nice offensive option with Knock, and Mareanie can lure and remove items with Knock while dancing around the TR timer.
Unlike the other three big hyper offense archetypes right now, I don't think much needs to be done about Trick Room. It's certainly a potent playstyle that fishes for matchups, but building and playing against it is far more flexible. Often the player who plays better is rewarded in the Trick Room matchup (something I need to work on a bit lol), so the best advice is really not to just auto-pilot or panic. As the meta settles, Marowak or Musharna might deserve closer glances, but I think they're mostly fine at the moment (even if Mushy is kind of obnoxious).
Aspect 2: An All-Out Offense
More regular degular type offensive builds aren't out of a job exactly in this meta. There's been plenty of experimentation with them, for however tough it is to run slower offense builds in the face of TerRain madness.
Falinks is something I'll bring up immediately, as it's been a month now, and it's not a secret that a good chunk of vocal players think it's still dumb. The mon didn't really get any new, reliable checks in the recent drops either. Scarf Manectric and Sash Cursola can administer some pain to it, but if those are really what I'm bringing up, you know things are dire. HOWEVER, I must come out as something shameful. Yes, I am a Falinks APOLOGIST. I really enjoy using Falinks as offensive glue for my teams, whether this is the AoA set, FI + SD, or SD + 3 Attacks. Falinks is so good at giving offense its own crown jewel in the face of the more flashy and linear HO archetypes. Falinks has also had somewhat of a mixed bag with the advent of TerRain HO. Fimpression is amazing against the fast ETerrain abusers, Golduck, and fragile TR abusers. However, Falinks can also choke when it has to deal with the bulky Psychic seed abusers at +1 Defense, Wigglytuff and Meowstic, and Itemless Gourgeist being everywhere. I think with the state of the meta at the moment, Falinks is kept in check just by how insanely stupid everything else is. In fact, I think Falinks might be one of the healthier forces in the metagame, on par with Pikachu in earlier SS ZU, for the way FI can help to deal with setup threats, or breaking through the more annoying bulky mons in the meta. Falinks will be worth taking a look at when (I don't say if because I am trying to manifest the council not dragging their feet on these issues) Drednaw, Pincurchin, and Grookey are looked at and the metagame isn't ravaged by HO archetypes. For now though, I love these funky little guys, and I'm not sorry about it.
So that this section isn't just dedicated to Falinks, I'll give some lip service to the other threats of the metagame that haven't been gulping down seeds or going sicko mode in TerRain. Crustle is a neat Shell Smash abuser that has mostly gone under the radar thanks to the more insane styles available and its lacking speed tier at +2, but it can be great as either support or the star of stronger offensive builds. Raboot has similarly gone under the radar, perhaps as we've had it before, but I think it can be neat as a revenge killer that has Fire coverage and U-Turn (standing out against Pika somewhat). Lilligant was just as underwhelming as I predicted. I say this after trying to ladder with its standard Quiver Dance set a bunch, and struggling against even more standard teams in the meta. Bouffalant's presence really infringes on the usefulness of Lilligant. T0T0DI!E created a SubToxic set for Lilli with help from czim that did numbers on the ladder, so there may be hope for Lilli yet (check out the Team Dump for it). The twin Silvallies that came down into our tier have been pretty manageable so far, with Bugvally being interestingly more popular at the moment. I think that's somewhat warranted with Rain being all over ladder, and the way Bugvally can break through a lot of the obnoxious bulky Psychics in the meta right now is quite valuable. As the meta settles a bit more, I expect Rockvally to perhaps win out (so long as we don't get some other vally...) but in the meantime, I think it's somewhat clear that Icevally is beginning to lose the Vally competition. Beyond that competition though, I think that the Vallies are an underlying yet very powerful force in the metagame at the moment. As we see more stability, I kind of predict that they'll remain near the top by virtue of the Schrodinger's Vally that you have to play at preview, and they're not super prepped for at the moment. Mareanie's a pretty fine stopgap to two of them, and a good chunk of other mons (Vespiquen, Drednaw, Relicanth, Falinks) can be pretty potent if the Vally of note is lacking Flame Charge (as many are now) and the right coverage move, but they're still very scary in action.
As for some older stuff that has stuck around, Pikachu is at its most godly in this current meta if I'm going to be honest. It's one of the two panaceas to the current obnoxiousness of HO (the other being Pawniard), and the way it prevents offense from just being demolished by cheese is invaluable. I have a hard time not justifying running Pikachu on many offensive builds. I'm kind of plugging Pika a bit here considering how its usage dropped significantly during November Part A, and I've learned to swallow my pride and love the rat. Persian has fully fallen by the wayside, and I'm completely okay with that. The cat has live its nine lives and then some in this meta, and it's perhaps a bit of poetry that it would fade from relevancy as its old partner Pincurchin returned. Morgrem has fallen off the radar almost completely - for good reason. Screens just aren't that good in the metagame (here's looking at you too, Alolapix). I mentioned this earlier in the post, but Magmar and Heatmor really suffer from the matchup meta, as even if they're great against GTerrain, that Rain matchup is just too painful for one to bear.
Aspect 3: A Balancing Act
Balance is in a REALLY weird place right now. On one hand, I think it's the best playstyle that isn't one of the HO archtypes (and thus, my favorite), but I think it's currently railroaded into very specific builds because of said HO. yovan33321 has proven most empirically that balance isn't dead or even dying right now (see Team Dump). However, I do think the balance archetype is stretched very thin right now by needing to run checks to ETerrain, Grassy Terrain, and multiple checks to Rain all at once.
I'll start by covering the new drops that made it big in the NovB meta. Lapras is a good bulky water, plain and simple. I was down on it a bit in my initial post for the drops, but that was mainly because I was a widow mourning the loss of my husband, Poli. Now though, I appreciate the water immunity and offensive pressure it gives balance teams for taking advantage of Palp and pressuring Golduck on Rain. It's still not personally my cup of tea, but Specs and Specially Defensive are both great sets with their own merits that stand out against the more linear Palpitoad. Leafeon is incredible, but I think everyone already knew that from the time it was with us in August. Having a stopgap to all of TerRain in one slot is incredible, which Pawniard can also lay claim to. I've spoken on both of them prior, so I really don't need to elaborate beyond "meta staple" for Leafeon. Pawniard though, I've hardly seen ANY of while on ladder or in the roomtours I've joined. This is why I've decided to leave higher education behind to scream in town squares about how amazing Pawniard is. USE IT.
The mascot of New Balance, Stunfisk, has made an amazing splash in the metagame. Stunfisk, in spite of the oppression of GTerrain and Rain, has stood up to the many ETerrain and offense teams that pervade ladder. I think it's about on par with Mawile, if not slightly better, and I was absolutely right in my belief that it would quickly become a meta staple. I'm begging PU not to take it back, though I don't expect it to as more bulky rockers are squeezed into the lower tiers. Maybe Stunfisk is old news, but sometimes old news is good news.
Old news in terms of Gen 8, but not old news in terms of ZU: Glaceon and Mr. Rime! Both of these haven't exactly been at the top of the meta, but they've been potent forces as bulky breakers for teams. In particular, I like Glaceon a lot. Big powerful breakers might be obnoxious in other metas, but having reasons to run Ice-resists is something I enjoy while teambuilding, and Glaceon's bulk is pretty cool for taking advantage of a lot of the offensive teams that have neglected running Steels or Waters in this current meta. Rime is the same way, and just as I predicted, it's got some healthy competition with Gime. Jury's out on whether Rime or Gime is better given the chaotic state of the meta, but they definitely complement each other and would open up more teambuilding variety... if WE COULD HAVE THAT.
Lastly but not leastly, Manectric has been one of my favorite Scarfers to use in the current meta. Scarf Mane gives breathing room against Ada Drednaw, which is really helpful. However, in general, it's just a great scarfer. It's a bit annoying how limited its coverage is, but once the meta stops being Rain, Palpitoad, and Stunfisk, I think Manectric will become more consistent.
For ZU Veterans (tbh some are sophomore recruits but we'll look past that), there's still been plenty of time on the frontlines. Gourgeist, Bouffalant, and Palpitoad are our metagame superstars at the moment though. Gourgeist has been and will be a dominant force in the metagame until our fair tier is annihilated by whatever final wave of the Crown Tundra hits us, but as it stands, its reliability versus all teamstyles and general offensive and defensive value are amazing. Bouffalant is likewise very similar, living in a symbiotic relationship with Gourgeist, and taking full advantage of Electric Terrain. Bouff has been an atomic bulky breaker (just see VOTW for how few reliable switch-ins it has), and offers so much breathing room as one of the only Grass-immunities in the meta. Palpitoad has had its ultimate encore (haha) with Poli's departure and the ascendancy of Rain, being one of the best bulky waters in the tier. Hattrem descending in popularity (and to be frank, viability) is another great boon for it. I expect Palpitoad to fall out of favor once the meta is more settled, but for now, it's nice to see the cute tadfrog get one last dance.
Hakamo-o is Palp's backup dancer when it comes to defensively checking rain, but the job still pays well. It's also quite nice that Hakamo-o has a good matchup against each of Raichu's moves on ETerrain, and doesn't give free switches to GTerrain on the matchup either. Haka is still kind of a necessary evil in the meta, as it has been previously when we've had oppressive threats, but it's funny to see the dino stick around. Ivysaur as a dino has not stuck around in the same way. Toxic Spikes are no longer the hotness, Electric types are now mainly ones of Fire Coverage, and making progress against bulky Eviolite builds isn't as valuable anymore. I'll be pouring one out for it, but I was never Ivy gang. Speaking of gangs though, I think Klang gang is in a fine place at the moment. Rain is obnoxious to deal with, as are the plenty of ETerrain abusers for Klang. However, the diminishing of Fire types in the metagame and Grassy Terrain being back in the vogue means that the gears finally have their mechanical rhythm back. There's no way Klang will be dominating the metagame in the way it once was, but it's almost as if the playerbase has forgotten just how potent ID + Shift Gear was, and continues to be.
Aspect 4: Stall that Remains
I don't mean to be a doomsday cultist on this matter, but I think Stall, as a playstyle, is going to be destined for ruin for a good chunk of this coming time. It wasn't as if we didn't inherit a good number of bulky mons from PU, but the way Hyper Offense teams are set up right now is just so oppressive to traditional stall builds that it's hard to justify matchup fishing for the just-right balance team to suck the life out of.
Type: Null might just be one of Stall and Semi-Stall's biggest saviors (praise baby False Arceus) since those devilish gears fell from grace. Type: Null, with Iron Defense, Toxic, Restalk, U-Turn, and Crush Claw as options, is capable of dominating the many HO builds, if it isn't bulky boosting to sweep on its own. The neglect of poison types on many recent balance builds (which aren't always using Mareanie, and have been neglecting Roselia), means that Toxic Spikes with Null is just sickening in all the right-wrong ways. Roselia an amazing partner, capable of setting up said T-Spikes for Null while havinng its own reliable recovery and spreading status against Defoggers with Sludge Bomb on the switch. Gothitelle has returned after another sabbatical in PU to make for a nasty wincon once more. Pawniard is its worst nightmare come true, but the lack of Pawniard that I've seen and the use of bulky Psychics as Psychic resists means that Gothitelle can really prey on HO builds that think they're funny.
Perhaps the biggest hit to stall is the matchup meta, which drives Pyukumuku to tears. It really sucks that the best Unaware user for Stall teams is vulnerable to the two Terrain styles that ravage the ladder. CM + Stored Power Psychics like Gony and Mushy, whether they're on HO or not, also make Pyuk's life horrid too. The deluge of good Electrics dropping doesn't help Pyuk's case, and neither do Roselia or Mareanie coming down to set down Toxic Spikes in its face while asking it to run Boots or die. If it wasn't upsetting enough that the mascot of stall has lost its mojo, Dusclops being under so much pressure (how the tables turn) in the current meta doesn't help things either. Not being able to Rest if you're matched up against Pincurchin is is a waking nightmare (haha), nor is SubSD Bouffalant.
Stall might just be at the worst it's ever been right now. Tier shifts may shake things up, not necessarily by introducing new options, but by replacing old ones that dominate it so forcefully. That doesn't mean it's completely over though: Vullaby is a great option against both types of Terrain, Shedinja may not have as secure of matchups but it can dart in and out while scouting, and Mawile might be one of the best role compressors around for the playstle. However, it is going to take a long time before stall gets anywhere near back where it once was as a team archetype.
Between Heaven and Earth: Beyond the November B Meta
From some sampling of the current playerbase, lots of ladder matches, and observing discussions in the ZU discord, I think this metagame has been really polarized, but I'm getting the feeling that the perceptions of the metagame are negative. While I've discussed the more vocally positive (diverse, very dimensional) and negative (matchup-heavy, suffocating) perspectives of the meta, I believe that the plurality of the playerbase simply thinks this metagame was not worth playing or thinking about. A lot of the statements I've seen involve some sort of sentiment of "well I don't want to play a chaotic meta", "ladder sucks", and "let's just wait until December shifts". While I get where most of those sentiments come from, I think those are terrible ways to deal with a metagame. Even if this metagame was short, we deserved to still have one that was fun to play rather than being a slog to ladder through or a rock-paper-scissors game. The lack of action involving Drednaw, even after multiple council members indicated they wanted to vote on it, was really disappointing. Opinions of the playerbase, such as the TerRain meta, weren't addressed at all, even though there was a very vocally negative section. No council member spoke on any of the mid-November drops or during the period on the forum at all. This isn't to say I would want some phoned in post from every person every single tier shift on every single meta, but I didn't really enjoy the second half of the month at all, and the lack of input from a lot of qualified players was kind of salt in the wound to this. I don't think the council are bad people or players at all, but I really would have loved to see some more opinions on the meta aside from some "can we vote on Drednaw?" - "nah I don't feel like it" - "alright". Things like Lilligant, Pawniard, and Roselia weren't even discussed at all, including on discord.
As a final verdict on the November Meta as a whole, I would say I much preferred the first half. Rain and Grassy Terrain were obnoxious in that stage, but Falinks and Gony being the biggest threats in the meta felt a little more manageable. With the meta evolving into this frustrating rock-paper-scissors matchup, I have a hard time wanting to queue up matches on the ladder or build new teams. I posted my antimeta one in the team dump, and I've seen a few people use it to success, but I haven't been motivated to really do much aside from experiment with new mons on alts. I know a number of other players haven't had much drive to really push the meta forwards, but I don't think the response to that should be more inaction. I'm excited to see what the December meta has to bring, but I'd also really like to see some more discussion from all types of players on what that meta shakes out to be. Here's hoping we finally get Godot in the shifts and the meta becomes perfect :D
Tier shifts happened and there hasn't been a post in here for them, so here goes:
Rises: (ZU to PU) Drops: (Small) (PU to ZU)
To preface, I have yet to build, play, or watch any of these drops in action because I've been quite busy with school. Once again losing Trevenant should not be that major considering it was not a central force in the meta, but Grassy Terrain teams do lose a major abuser which should nerf the style to an extent. Grassy Terrain teams still have setup sweepers and downgrades to Trevenant in Gourgeist formes and Leafeon though, and it isn't like Trev was the major force on the style. For example, Trevenant had common checks in Pokemon like Bouffalant, Mawile, and Leafeon which made it more difficult to freely spam attacks as it did in past metas.
Avalugg dropping is pretty interesting. Admittedly I have zero experience with it this gen since I don't really touch other metas. However, we had it in gen 7 and Avalugg has Body Press and HDB now, so needless to say it has upgrades. In addition to providing another Spinner, Avalugg gives team an exceptionally bulky physical blanket check, something that I've personally always felt was missing in building aside from Gourgeist-L (on balance/bulky offense). As such, teams now have a great blanket check to a wide range of physical sweepers and breakers from SD Silvally formes, Sub SD Bouffalant, CB Gourg-L, etc. All in all I'm excited to try this out.
We previously had Gourgeist-S and it was highly viable. High Speed, good power, and great defensive utility make it top-tier Pokemon immediately imo. Gourg-S soft checks quite a bit and preys on common Pokemon from Marowak to Lycanroc-Midnight to Lapras. Not much more to say here, we've seen what Gourgeist-S is about.
Lickilicky back in ZU is something I've really been looking forward to. Does so much and we finally have a highly viable (imo) special wall and cleric, which should have a strong impact on balance and bulkier styles. On paper specially defensive Lickilicky pairs well with so many Pokemon and provides excellent support for walls and tanks alike. In addition, Licky has lots of options such as SD, Curse, physically defensive, and special coverage, and the stats to pull those off so I can see it being fairly versatile. However, common mons like SD Drednaw, Falinks, Marowak, and so on give it trouble on paper so we'll see how things develop.
Man, ever since Ninetales rose to RU last gen, I have always hoped it would drop back down. We didn't get it back in gen 7 but here we are now. I think that while Ninetales's SpA leaves something to be desired, it has the Speed, setup moves, and coverage to flourish in a meta of this power level. HDB helps Ninetales's longevity and I noticed that Ninetales has a lot of cool options now like Scorching Sands, Encore, Agility, and Stored Power. Excited to see how Ninetales shapes up because I can also see the meta being unkind to it and it falling short of expectations.
My immediate impression of Pinsir is that it's going to be a big threat, but Avalugg, Mawile, and Gourgeist-L exist and that base 85 Speed leaves it short of many other offensive threats, so I'm not very confident that it'll actually end up being a notable threat. That being said, it'll probably heavily pressure slower and bulkier teams because of its monstrous Attack, SD, great coverage, and Mold Breaker/Moxie. Choice Scarf should be interesting as well due to the potential of snowballing with Moxie. SR sets also look fun with Mold Breaker and Pinsir's ability to chip away teams and break down defensive cores.
I didn't really go deep and add details or anything that insightful here and that's because this is all theory monning for me. I'm looking forward to seeing other people's impressions and thoughts, and I'm also looking forward to seeing teams, replays, and games for myself.
With christmas coming, I feel generous and I will give you cool idea of builds I made around new drops around a defensive core :
Avalugg team
Avalugg
Avalugg will be the first member of our team because why not it's a new drop so let's try it out. I personally think it's a healthy addition for ZU due to the fact that it's one of the only few counter we have to deal with Bouffalant. Outside of Bouffalant, it's able to deal with physical Boltund, SD Rapidash, SD variants of Silvally, offensive gourgeist, etc etc. These qualities don't have to hide the flaws, it stays relatively easily to abuse with the number of physical fighting and rocks types we have. Its utility as a spinner is a bit iffy on paper, it doesn't really have an easy time spinning versus mawile, it probably has to win an annoying pp stall to be able to spin versus mareanie, it cannot spin on cursola for obvious reasons but you normally win the 1v1 versus Palpitoad/Stunfisk though even if you take a lot of damage. Physically defensive, it's also able to spin versus crustle if it doesn't carry Shell Smash. You don't really win the dual versus vespiquen without toxic but she doesn't win it really either, you cannot switch on roselia without being spd but if you are, you can perhaps spin on defensive variants even if it stays pretty difficult. With these considerations in mind, I finally choosed a physically defensive Toxic / Body press set and we will see where it goes.
Stunfisk
I needed an other mon with Avalugg able to tank some physical threats that our iceberg is not really able to take like Lycanroc-Midnight for example. I decided add one of the best physical rocker we currently have. Stunfisk is also an electric immunity which is mandatory in my opinion to prevent being destroyed by rising voltage under electric terrain. Something i really like about this mon is also its ability to punish effectively volt-turn with statik too. An other interesting point is that Stunfisk is a set up fodder for Bouffalant and often for Marowak too so getting an Avalugg in the back is really the best partner we could give it. However, even with Stunfisk + Avalugg, we don't cover every threat which hits on the physical side. If we consider Falinks and Crustle which are two of the best mons in the tier right now :
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Falinks Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 341-403 (80.8 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Crustle Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 332-392 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Stunfisk is able to tank a hit from both so it's not bad but it's not perfect so we have to keep that in mind for the future mons we add
Type:null
If physically we are almost good, we are pretty easy to abuse specially notably. Glaceon, Lilligant, Lapras, Beheeyem, Ninetales, Cursola don't care much about what we play currently. If dealing with every set of every special attacker is not possible, we can at least try to give our team a better shot against them. It's naturally that we will add a specially defensive type:null which is blessed by its amazing bulk to deal with most of these threats. We will play a classic set with rest talk toxic and u-turn to be able to john if something wrong happen. Notably, Type:null still struggles against Sub or Heal Bell Lilligant (or cheap Lilligant called bellossom with safeguard) and also CM variants of Rapidash. Its match up against Golduck under rain is not the best either so we will have to deal with this issue quickly...
Golduck
Unfortunately, rain is really broken at the moment so we have to do our homeworks and slapping answers in our team. What would be the best solution here? We must conquer fire with fire. We will play a scarf golduck which has the interesting aspect to be able to revenge kill drednaw/opposite golduck. With its acces to flip-turn, it's a correct scarfer which is also able to revenge kill crustle at +2 and also falinks at +1 if it has been weaken previously. It's also able to revenge kill ninetales after an u-turn from type:null.
If we look how is our beautiful team right now, we notice that we are already in a pretty good spot in dealing with the majority of the most important threats in the metagame. However, we notice that Falinks still has too much opportunities to annoy us notably since it finds natural opportunities to threaten type:null and avalugg. We still could have trouble to deal with bulky variant of Lilligant, Special Rapidash is still a threat and we are basically 6-0 by bulky set up sweepers at the moment which are Musharna, Type:Null and Dubwool. Our match up against stall can also be improved.
Silvally-Bug
There is one type in the game which has the weird ability to resist both fighting and grass and hitting super effectively against psychic types. This weird type is the bug type and we have Silvally-Bug available so let's abuse it with happiness. We will play a SD variant with Multi Attack/Psychic Fangs and FlameCharge. Psychic fangs here has a triple utility, first of all it allows to hit super effectively Falinks which is better for a fighting resist, then it allows us to lure Mareanie which is a bit annoying for our team currently and which generally enjoy clicking haze versus Vally-Bug. Finally, it also breaks screens but screens are so terrible right now with galarian rime everywhere that it's not the most important point. Still, I really like the defensive and offensive value Silvally-Bug gives us in ZU. It's clearly an underrated pick in my humble opinion.
Musharna
We still need a slot to play a broken mon which beats CM Rapidash and also which is alright against Dubwool, type:null and not horrible against stall so lets add a cute Musharna here and we are good. I will play the Kee Berry set of Musharna with Stored Power/Calm Mind/Moonlight/Heal bell. This set allows to Musharna to win the dual against an insane amount of physical attacker and notably got an immunity to Poltergeist after the use of the item. Heal bell supports well the team since Avalugg/Stunfisk/Silvally bug really despises statuts. Musharna is clearly one of the best pokemon in the current metagame if not the best one with Lilligant and Bouffalant so I give you my full accord to spam it without any shame. This mon is really really good.
Pinsir
I started with a team with Silvally-Bug inside with the idea to introduce better my opinion about Pinsir. Bug type is a type which is pretty good defensively in ZU due to the fact that they resist two of the scariest type in the current metagame, grass and fighting. If in previous generation, the sr weakness sucked for anyone who wanted to use a bug type as an offensive check to a threat, it's now possible with boots. Offensively, the ability to threat Musharna is really unique otherwise due to our lack of dark types in the tier.
Pinsir has flaws despite this and its big movepool, it's not a mon which hits specially hard considering its best stab has 80 base power (give it megahorn plz), and its speedtier is okay without being good. You normally don't really have any trouble to revenge kill it. I personally don't think it will be one of the best mon in our metagame, if I had to guess now, I would say it will stuck somewhere in A-. In the team I will present you now, I chosed to play a SD Boots set with the idea to threat stall effectively. Wth Moldbreaker to bypass unaware, Gourgeist is the only real true stop to Pinsir in stall teams and gourgeist is a mon which is possible to abuse.
Mawile Dusclops Vibrava
Maybe some of you recognized this core, this was a core I played a lot in early SM when torterra wasn't in the tier. If my building style has evolved since this period, I wanted to see how this core was in the current metagame. Vibrava is pretty bad honestly but less than I thought it would be, at least you don't invite too much things with scorching sands now. Mawile + Dusclops is still a really good core defensively, able to deal with a good amount of threats such as type:null, dubwool, Gourgeist, Lilligant, Ninetales, Silvally, Lapras, Mr Rime, Leafeon,... It's also decent against Bouffalant even if this mon stays a threat when you don't play Gourgeist or Avalugg. The real annoying match up is Falinks which doesn't care at all about these things. We have Pinsir as an offensive check but it's not enough when your defensive core is destroyed by this pokemon.
Rapidash-Galar
I needed a second offensive check to Falinks so the choice wasn't really difficult. I have a love-hate relationship with Rapidash-Galar. I really didn't like physical sets due to how difficult they are to set up and the fact that you don't have any accurate move to revenge kill a pokemon. I finally found a set that I like really much better than the others, it's the offensive CM set with Psychic. I feel like most of players forgot about the existence of this pokemon and simply don't prepare for it at all. The damage of this mon even without Calm Mind is absolutely insane and the resistances to its coverage doesn't exist in ZU outside of Zweilous which isn't seen anymore. It's also a good mon to pressure stall surprisingly since you don't take toxic.
Drednaw
Yeah, rain is broken blah blah blah. Drednaw scarf also revenge kills Bouffalant more or less and it has a solid coverage so it's always something which is pretty effective to revenge kill things.
Ninetales
I have been a bit vocal about it but if I could prevent a mon to have dropped this shift, it would have been probably Ninetales. Not that I think this mon is broken here but ZU cleary lacks of fire resist (we don't have any good dragon type) and the one we have cleary don't enjoy its coverage between Energy ball and Scorching Sands. With boots, I feel like it will also be a mon which will be really difficult to wear down. I have no idea where to rank it initially but Ninetales is probably the best drop we got this shift. I feel like it has really good utilies in being fast, able to threat bulky builds effectively and with its wallbreaking ability.
When I tried to build around Ninetales, I remember a nice defensive core I built recently which had a water type and a grass type inside so a fire water grass core looked pretty sexy. For the story about this core, I heard ho3n spammed a TR with Pincurchin Marowak and Beheyeem and it was apparently pretty effective so I built a defensive core which was able to abuse this trend. The result was pretty convincing since it was also able to answer a lot of other common trends we got.
Palpitoad
Palpitoad is probably the best counter we have to Pincurchin so that was the main reason why I chosed it in the first place. However, people who play ZU certainly know Palpitoad for an other thing. It's the only mon outside of Hakamo-O which is able to resist the dual stab of Drednaw. This fact alone allows Palpitoad to become a viable pick. However, it has also other utilites outside of Pincurchin/Drednaw, Papitoad is also able to handle correctly most of rock types such as Crustle and also hard stop golduck for clicking hydro pump under rain. It's also an electric immunity so manectric/boltund cannot have fun. It's a bit easy to wear down though so you have to be careful about that.
Gourgeist
I needed a mon to deal with Marowak if I cannot use Palpitoad for that for whatever reason. Gourgeist-Large is the most natural choice, especially since it deals with Falinks decently and is one of the only Bouffalant counter in this tier. Gourgeist-Large is honestly an amazing mon in the current metagame, it also prevents Type:null and Dubwool to do whatever they want to do. It's also ironically the best counter to offensive gourgeist variants with no item so I really advice anyone to use this mon when they have a free slot and they don't know what to play. It also deals with Leafeon, SD rapidash-galar, Pinsir, etc
Type null
I needed something for special attackers with this core so why using a brain when you can just slap a type:null and be happy with that. Same set as previously, type null is one of the best special sponge in the metagame and with a pivot move.
Mr Rime
I have few versions with the core of this team, sometimes with Mr Mime Galar sometimes with mr Rime. For this team, since Ninetales is already a mon a bit frail, I think Mr Rime is a bit better right here. Traditionally, what I want is an offensive spinner able to threat toxic spikes user which are really annoying for the team otherwise. I play a set which is not too common here which is Encore Mr. Rime to prevent Musharna to 6-0 this team. I played a different spread before (just enough speed to outspeed marowak) but I stole a team of czim today with this spread and it looked sexy but I have no idea what it is for.
Pikachu
When you are weak to too much offensive things and you want to lazy build, you slap a Pikachu somewhere to revenge kill things you cannot manage otherwise. I have nothing else to add about this. Pikachu stays a solid mid tier even after this big powercreep so even if it doesn't fit everywhere, feel free to play this cute mouse when you have the opporunity!
Tagging The Immortal to implement. Drednaw received a pro-ban vote out of all 6 council members; Kay voted ban and will edit in his reasoning later.
This month's shift wasn't that big for ZU, and a lingering concern from last month was the power of rain teams. Drednaw was the star wallbreaker as there was extremely limited counterplay in the meta with its extremely strong dual STAB attacks-Head Smash and rain boosted Liquidation-on top of Swords Dance doubling its potential. I'd like to say we gave Drednaw a good shot in the tier as we fully explored it and found how to abuse it best, which could be a compelling factor as to why the ban was a unanimous vote.
Quick Council Minutes:
First and foremost, nearly everything meta related that the council discusses about is public in ZU's discord, so if you ever want to see what we're discussing about for the metagame then by all means check us out. We also respond to any input and like to value what our community of players has to say about our favorite little metagam ZU :)
More on topic, council spent the crazy month of November with a more hands-off approach as we waited for a longer period of stability to vote on what we thought was broken. Evidently, only Drednaw was addressed today, but the conversation isn't closed; Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, and a handful of threats like Falinks and Type: Null were brought up. Even Cursola has some teambuilding constraints that were deemed potentially overwhelming.
The bigger issues of terrain, in my opinion, are the not the setters of Pincurchin nor Grookey, but rather the Calm Mind setup sweepers that have a great combo with them. For those who are new, abusers like Galarian Rapidash, Musharna, and even Cursola utilize either Grassy Seed or Electric seed for both a +1 to Defense, as well as the side effect of making them Poltergeist-proof. The initial Defense raise is great for Calm Mind so that the sweepers are hard to take down at both ends, and then most use Stored Power as a nuke thanks to all the stat raises. There are different tradeoffs between them, like Galarian Rapidash having a great natural Speed to secure setup opportunities + a Toxic immunity, while say Musharna boasts much better defenses.
The limitations to these sweepers exist both externally with their revenge killers and phazers, as well as internally with their choice for more coverage to support Stored Power or recovery / status prevention. To some degree, internal limitations can be considered unhealthy and unfair, as the opponent has to gamble on what type of counterplay they should save in-game depending if say Musharna has Moonblast or Heal Bell; the former is checked by Toxic Metang, and the latter by Pawniard. I think I can speak on behalf of the council that we'd love to have more input on what the community thinks of the terrain abusers right now, and if its an individual problem, a problem with the terrains themselves, or something else.
Ending on a fun note, the council will also be voting on a new VR list shortly. We agreed that a list is better than rankings due to the 26 new mons we got from the last list we made, and it's better to start here for now and potentially get to rankings in the next update.
Day 1 of drops I challenged myself to make a team of the new mons + Mareanie cause yeah you'll be hard pressed finding me not using mini pex anytime soon, and that kinda worked. Biggest problem was Pinsir, as it's just very hard to fit with its poor typing and lackluster Speed. In its place is Marowak, which is an awesome offensive rocker that doubles as a wallbreaker versus stallier MUs. Avalugg / Lickilicky / Mareanie is a very, very stally core by the way, and it's only less so with Licky opting for both Knock Off and Seismic Toss instead of Heal Bell; use Mare to soak up Toxic attempts. The team then relies on NP Ninetales as a breaker and sweeper, and it's one of the best in the meta. You really can't beat its coverage, and it surprisingly has decent bulk and MUs to set Nasty Plot up. Wish Licky has also brought Ninetales back into the game for me many a time, and that helps so much against bulkier builds.
Hello cute ZU users, im writing this post to talk about why electric terrain is unhealthy and because of this why Pinchurchin should be banned. So to start off I think ho3n summed up why the calm mind + electric seed abusers are problematic perfectly in his post above (para 3) so im not going to talk about it much. The main difference in our opinion if that he thinks the abusers are the problem whereas I think its the setters. In a perfect world I would ban both setters (Grookey and Pinchurchin) as I believe just the fact that they can activate the abusers is enough to be unhealthy and banworthy but I know that's not gunna happen so im just gonna focus on Pinchurchin.
What separates Pinchurchin from Grookey and pushes it over the edge is the number of extra tools at it's disposal such as good natural bulk, reliable recovery, toxic spikes and memento. Good natural bulk allows Pinchurchin to be able to set up electric terrain multiple times during a game and also allows it to hard switch into most of the meta then just pivot into an abuser whereas Grookey needs a safe switch to set up terrain. Toxic spikes are also an extremely useful tool for wearing down checks and counters for the abusers. For example Lilligant can toxic stall Bouffalant or wait until its in range of ones of its coverage moves. Memento is also a great support move allowing free setup for an abuser or allows Manectric the maximal amount of turns to spam Rising voltage. Moreover Electric Terrain in itself also has the benefit of preventing sleep which might not seem like a big deal but a number of top mons such as Dubwool, Type:null, Dusclops and bulky grounds rely on rest heavily which they can't use now making them susceptible to toxic spikes too. Rising Voltage is also a big problem too, Pokemon like Manectric have very few answers mandating a ground type on every team to not auto lose.
OK now onto the abusers quickly. Basically there are too many abusers and variations of abusers sets. In addition this is just going to get worse over the next few months as we keep getting more and more abusers. Unlike countering rain where you could just slap a Palpitoad on the team and call it a day there is no sure fire way to counter this archetype as different abusers and set variations require different counters. I made a Terrain spam team (posted in the team dump thread) to just mess about with terrain and to my surprise it was absolutely broken allowing me to peak ladder at 1550 from a fresh alt on autopilot. The premise of that team was just to have a bunch of electric terrain abusers and then just win with whatever abuser the opposing team is weak too.
Overall I think that Electric Terrain is far too flexible and unpredictable to be able to answer this archetype reliably and also puts a huge strain on teambuilding thus making it unhealthy and the setter banworthy.
What separates Pinchurchin from Grookey and pushes it over the edge is the number of extra tools at it's disposal such as good natural bulk, reliable recovery, toxic spikes and memento. Good natural bulk allows Pinchurchin to be able to set up electric terrain multiple times during a game and also allows it to hard switch into most of the meta then just pivot into an abuser whereas Grookey needs a safe switch to set up terrain. Toxic spikes are also an extremely useful tool for wearing down checks and counters for the abusers. For example Lilligant can toxic stall Bouffalant or wait until its in range of ones of its coverage moves. Memento is also a great support move allowing free setup for an abuser or allows Manectric the maximal amount of turns to spam Rising voltage.
You're overstimating Pincurchin's bulk, it's really not bulky as you claim and absolutetly can't manually switch into most of the meta. Almost every Special attackers forces it out, even if uninvested, and it gets 2HKOed by some of the most common Physical attackers such as Bouffalant, Falinks and Gourgeist-Small. Furthemore, it's hard to fit a pivot in Electric Terrain teams and therefore Pincurchin will most of the time be forced to hard switch or to come after a teammate faints. In my experience, Pincurchin can only come two or three times on the field, which is enough to let the abusers activate their Seeds but not enough to do everything you claim. Pincurchin can't provide all the support you claim it brings. Except against extremely passive mon like Mareanie and Mawile or specific attackers like Boltund, Pincurchin is forced to click recover if it wants to be able come two more times on the field. Which means, it is unable to use Toxic Spikes, Memento and Spikes multiple times in a game and it has to pick what's the best move to support its team. Sure no other Pokémon has so many support options, however every team needs to be prepared for Lilligant+Toxic Spikes as Mareanie and Vespiquen are very reliable setters and Spikes stack.
Moreover Electric Terrain in itself also has the benefit of preventing sleep which might not seem like a big deal but a number of top mons such as Dubwool, Type:null, Dusclops and bulky grounds rely on rest heavily which they can't use now making them susceptible to toxic spikes too. Rising Voltage is also a big problem too, Pokemon like Manectric have very few answers mandating a ground type on every team to not auto lose.
In my opinion, Electric-immunities are already mandatory due to Boltund's and Manectric's popularity and a lot of Ground-immunities are great Pokémon on their own, such as Stunfisk, Manectric and Marowak. Preventing Dusclops and Type:Null from recovering is concerning as they can be great stops to Electric Seed sweepers, however this just impacts few Pokémon and most of the countermeasures to the Electric Seed sweepers don't mind not being able to be put asleep, and it's also a downside for Lilligant which loves to use Sleep Powder.
OK now onto the abusers quickly. Basically there are too many abusers and variations of abusers sets. In addition this is just going to get worse over the next few months as we keep getting more and more abusers. Unlike countering rain where you could just slap a Palpitoad on the team and call it a day there is no sure fire way to counter this archetype as different abusers and set variations require different counters. I made a Terrain spam team (posted in the team dump thread) to just mess about with terrain and to my surprise it was absolutely broken allowing me to peak ladder at 1550 from a fresh alt on autopilot. The premise of that team was just to have a bunch of electric terrain abusers and then just win with whatever abuser the opposing team is weak too.
Ladder is not a reliable indicator of something being broken as its quality is known to be poor. Also, I think you clearly understimate the counterplay to the Seed sweepers. The main abusers are Galarian Rapidash, Musharna and Lilligant, Cursola and Calyrex being scarcer and globally less effective than the former abusers.
Rapidash-Galar and Musharna both suffer from needing several turns of setup before being threatening, and while their bulk is improved through CM boosts and Electric Seed, Rapidash-Galar stays quite frail and can be abused by most strong attackers whereas Musharna is slow and powerful breakers such as Pawniard and Bouffalant can get a Swords Dance in front of it to break through the Seed Boost.
In my opinion, Lilligant doesn't get much from the Seed and most of its traditional answers like Vespiquen and Roselia still beat it, outside of Vullaby and Vespiquen that can fear Nature Power.
Moreover, it can be hard for Electric Terrain teams to get opportunities to setup as they are often forced to hard switch from Pincurchin, thus strong special attackers such as Cursola and Glaceon can easily prevent them from setting up.
On another hand, I'd like to to talk about what is in my opinion the most concerning Pokémon in the tier, Lilligant.
Lilligant is a very weird Pokémon because there are some somewhat mid/low ranked Pokémon like Ivysaur, Roselia and Shedinja that can handle every set, some other mon like Vespiquen, Dusclops and Bouffalant do well versus most of the sets, but whenever I face a team lacking one of these mon, Lilligant just sweeps after setting up on a Pokémon that was forced out by Sleep Powder. This last move in my opinion what turns Lilligant obnoxious, giving it the opportunity to get a free Quiver Dance or Substitute just because Lilligant may have it and is faster than a big part of the tier. With Toxic Spikes support, it's also able to weaken counters such as Bouffalant and Lickilicky and set up on them to eventually beat them. While it has quite numerous answers, only Bouffalant, Type:Null and Dusclops have High viability, meaning that it can be pretty difficult to slap a great answer on a team. While the set variation isn't big and the answers stay the same through the sets unlike Falinks, I have found Lilligant to be able to easily get one or two Quiver Dance and sweep from it in late game.
I'd like to hear more people voice their opinion on Lilligant and Terrain, so the council can do their best to improve the tier which should stay quite stable for the next two months.
Lilligant is a very weird Pokémon because there are some somewhat mid/low ranked Pokémon like Ivysaur, Roselia and Shedinja that can handle every set, some other mon like Vespiquen, Dusclops and Bouffalant do well versus most of the sets, but whenever I face a team lacking one of these mon, Lilligant just sweeps after setting up on a Pokémon that was forced out by Sleep Powder.
I think that its being broken in absence of its answers on teams is an aspect with nearly any S rank mon. Besides from my ladder and tour exp, haze is now a common move(clops). Even pika after some chipping with fake speed pretty much takes care of it, not to mention it itself being vulnerable to tspikes . Besides it has enough answers to fit atleast 1 in a team. Also the way meta is rn, priority moves should be stacked in a team generally
That being said, since the answers can die by end game and can be weakened by tspikes can become a major problem and so I think it might not be a bad idea to suspect it once or whatever it is called when the council votes.
Hello all. Mid-month tier shifts happened and here are the changes:
Combusken moved from PU to ZUBL Cradily moved from PU to ZU Drifblim moved from PU to ZU Lurantis moved from PU to ZU Regice moved from PU to ZU Sableye moved from PU to ZU Spiritomb moved from PU to ZU Stunfisk-Galar moved from PU to ZU Politoed moved from RU to ZU
Council has unanimously decided to unban Combusken. Tagging The Immortal to implement
These Mid Month tier shifts weren't anything too crazy, but I'd still like to give some of my thoughts on the drops now that I've had sometime to play around with them. This shift wasn't anything meta shifting, and is quite underwhelming compared to what there is to come, but these mons are definitely nice additions to ZU.
Danger Chicken and Politoed are pretty much the same things, they're back and doing what they did before. Just with more competition and counters. Overall I believe both of these mons are pretty good in the current meta. (Which won't last for long)
Cradily seems like a very well rounded defensive rocker. Storm drain means it fits really well on teams which struggle with opposing water types, and not too many things enjoy taking a +1 giga drain from Cradily. Toxic is also pretty nice, however I don't see this thing being meta anytime soon.
Drifblim has an interesting niche as both a defogger and unburden sweeper, I don't think Drifblim could've picked a better time to drop to zu, considering how good terrain is with mr.curchin in the tier. I also thing that Drifblim is pretty nice as a defogger if you want something that isn't vespiquen.
Regice seems like a very nice addition to the tier. 200 base special defense makes it an amazing wall, if only its typing were better. The sleep talk set seems like the best set for Regice, and rock polish makes it a decent sweeper but not really that great. Specs is always and option but should only be used if your team is lacking in special bulk.
Sableye is possibly one of if not the best drop, I love its access to prankster and when coupled with physical bulk turns this thing into an amazing physical wall. Whether it's knock off support or burning an opposing physical attacker, Sableye seems like it'll help out just about any team.
I don't have much to say about spiritomb, it has a nice typing, and seems like a very nice band user. Calm mind could also be nice due to the lack of weaknesses.
I really like Lurantis' access to defog, and contrary makes many things squeamish to come in. There is one gigantic hole I see in Lurantis, its speed. Lurantis can be revenge killed very easily, especially by specially attackers. I still do think it'll be scary to swap into, and can put a decent hole in many teams if not played around. [also looks very good on trick room teams]
I've never been so middle of the road with my thoughts on a Pokemon. At first Stunfisk Galar seemed really boring to me as just another bulky rocker. Then I thought it had a cool typing and I liked its access to yawn, and now I'm back at thinking it's another bulky rocker, with a quirky recovery move that can be exploited. Mimicry isn't really that good of an ability even with the presence of curchin and grookey. Yawn is nice, and can force a switch occasionally but I'm just not too big a fan of it in general. Much like Regice and Cradily, I think stufisk Galar is good, but not meta defining.
(rip 
, retired now)
GORSE IS ZU. Yep, gorse is zu. Rapidash-Galar is a powerhouse and its wide variety of sets make it #1 in my watchlist as of now. I don't think it has been overbearing so far but it definitely has potential to join Ludicolo on ZUBL. Physical and Special set defensive checks don't really overlap, with stuff like Mareanie and Klang handling special sets better, and Mawile and Gourgeist-L handling physical sets better. There's also potential in grass terrain builds, although the loss of Trevenant is really big for those types of teams
Big Bouff is back in ZU, and its a bigger threat than ever. This one gets the #3 on the list since its checks are all very set dependant aside from Rest Pyukumuku and Haze Clops. Its speed is still as crippling as ever and stuff like Falinks, Stonjourner, and Dubwool keep it in check for now. Its ability is incredible for offensive builds though, since it completely shuts down offensive Gourgeist variants due to the dual immunity and also makes it a good Spore/Leech Seed absorber.
I expected Rain to dominate the metagame as of now with 2 brand new abusers on top of the Seaking and Beartic and our solid setter but I just haven't seen it be anything more than decent. We should keep an eye on the playstyle as of now but it seems to be a healthy playstyle. Outside of rain, Drednaw is insteresting as it has a deadly STAB combination, SD and a solid speed tier (also some cool Jaw Lock memes). It also has some potential as a lead in HO builds a la Sudowoodo but I don't really see why you'd run this over Dugtrio or Shuckle. Golduck is an interesting offensive Water that can punish Mareanie with Psychic (unlike Politoed) and has access to Flip Turn, making it somewhat of a Special variant of Seaking.
The sheep seems like a very scary wincon in this metagame, although some of its checks like Mareanie dropped alongside it. Its speed gives it plenty of setup opportunites and makes the game usually about removing the 1 mon that prevents the sheep from sweeping. I don't think this a problem as of now though since Dubwool's lack of versatility makes it very predictable. It can maybe run a SD set but idk why wouldn't you just run Bouffalant instead in that scenario.
Ah yes, the meanie is back. And it's IMO an incredible addition as of now. Toxic Spikes wars are as good as ever, and Mareanie helps check several new brokens such as Falinks, Dubwool, Silv-Bug, and Grapploct (old broken in this case lol). Mareanie doesn't really like Hattrem but it's not like its super bothered by it either. The bounced Tspikes can be absorbed back and you can easily get a valuable Knock on Hattrem by forcing it in. Mare seems very splashable as of now and I think it'll stay big as long as we have it.
I know we already had Magmar but both of them are really solid Fire-types, and honestly I'm very excited that our best Fire-type is no longer Lampent (which is cute btw). They have similar special coverage but a few different factors that make each equally appealing. Heatmor has access to Knock Off and Giga Drain to make it impossible to switch into, while Magmar is faster, has Teleport and Taunt. Hopefully now Klang is balanced :D
More steels! Both Mawile and Metang seem to be splashable Steel-rockers in this metagame and both of them push Klang aside due to their utility. 
Eh, it does Shuckle things, has been doing it for several gens. Hattrem is important to mention since Charjabug might be actual competition now.
Gourgeist-Small is an incredible offensive threat due to its speed tier. Outspeeding threats such as Pikachu, the Silvallies, Magmar, Falinks, Golduck and so on makes it much more easier to spam Power Whip and Poltergeist, making it a very good revenge killer. Gourgeist-regular is just a useless midground between Small and Large, but I don't see it being used. Gourgeist-Large will still be used on defensive roles though until we get Super.
The Last of the Silvallies is oficially retired now. 2 new (old) forms joined Silvally-Ice and they both seem pretty good. Silvally-Rock will most likely be the defogger the choice, since it isnt weak to Rocks. Offensively, Silvally-Rock gives Lycanroc and Stonjourner some solid competition as offensive Rock-types, being the only Silvally with neutral STAB on Mareanie is interesting though to pressure builds relying on Haze Mareanie to keep setup sweepers in check. Silvally-Bug looks like an interesting pivot since it can pressure stuff like Musharna, while also acting as a Falinks/Grapploct check.
Oh ye this exists, I almost forgot. Luxray seems like a decent breaker somewhat but I just don't see why you'd use this over Pikachu on any serious team.
Klang just gained competiton from Metang and Mawile and several new checks such as Mareanie, Heatmor, Dubwool, Magmar, Gabite and Falinks in the last couple weeks. It's likely still a pretty good wincon but its bound to drop several subranks in the VR.
Vespiquen is still a decent pivot but there are now several scary breakers it just invites in such as Lycanroc, Heatmor, Drednaw, Silvally-Rock and so on, while also having Mareanie as competition for Tspikes which isnt great since Vespiquen cant absorb Tspikes back, making Vepsiquen lose the tspikes 1v1 vs Mareanie in the long run.
This has a lot more to worry about now. Metang and Mawile are very splashable Steel-types that just make its setup life more difficult. Add to that all the priority from the likes of Gourgeist-Small, Falinks, Lycanroc and Grapploct, and the new fire types and you can see that Mime-G has a way harder time in this metagame.
This got Mareanie, Silvally-Rock and the Rain abusers to check in this metagame, but I don't think this is enough to push it hard back into the meta.
Hattrem got Mareanie and Shuckle to prey on, but the overall power level of the tier has risen considerably making this maybe not so much of a winner after all.
Seaking also seems kinda good here since Knock+Flip Turn is very annoying to switch into and its movepool is overall colourful.
With Grapploct, Falinks and the new Silvally-forms it might be able to carve itself a niche back into the meta. Ivysaur also seems a bit less splashable which makes its life easier.
With the return of Mareanie as a premier fighting-check AOA Machoke may seem appealing in the next couple weeks. It also has some interesting priority in Bullet Punch that helps it deal with annoying gorses.
, 
, 
, 
, 
and 
. While returning threats like 
and 
could make a potential great comeback in this meta. 
Although it has only been 1 day and I know the ZU council like having time to test stuff to make up their minds, Type:Null needs to go too. Its just too damn fat with a ridiculous 95 base Defence, Special defence and HP as well as a 1.5x defences boost from Eviolite. It also has access to the move that sends shivers down Zu players spines, Iron Defence . But don't worry its really slow and ill just crit it I hear you saying, well good luck with that because this things ability is Battle Armor so it cant be struck by a critical hit.
(PU to ZU)
Avalugg dropping is pretty interesting. Admittedly I have zero experience with it this gen since I don't really touch other metas. However, we had it in gen 7 and Avalugg has Body Press and HDB now, so needless to say it has upgrades. In addition to providing another Spinner, Avalugg gives team an exceptionally bulky physical blanket check, something that I've personally always felt was missing in building aside from Gourgeist-L (on balance/bulky offense). As such, teams now have a great blanket check to a wide range of physical sweepers and breakers from SD Silvally formes, Sub SD Bouffalant, CB Gourg-L, etc. All in all I'm excited to try this out.
Lickilicky back in ZU is something I've really been looking forward to. Does so much and we finally have a highly viable (imo) special wall and cleric, which should have a strong impact on balance and bulkier styles. On paper specially defensive Lickilicky pairs well with so many Pokemon and provides excellent support for walls and tanks alike. In addition, Licky has lots of options such as SD, Curse, physically defensive, and special coverage, and the stats to pull those off so I can see it being fairly versatile. However, common mons like SD Drednaw, Falinks, Marowak, and so on give it trouble on paper so we'll see how things develop.
Man, ever since Ninetales rose to RU last gen, I have always hoped it would drop back down. We didn't get it back in gen 7 but here we are now. I think that while Ninetales's SpA leaves something to be desired, it has the Speed, setup moves, and coverage to flourish in a meta of this power level. HDB helps Ninetales's longevity and I noticed that Ninetales has a lot of cool options now like Scorching Sands, Encore, Agility, and Stored Power. Excited to see how Ninetales shapes up because I can also see the meta being unkind to it and it falling short of expectations.
My immediate impression of Pinsir is that it's going to be a big threat, but Avalugg, Mawile, and Gourgeist-L exist and that base 85 Speed leaves it short of many other offensive threats, so I'm not very confident that it'll actually end up being a notable threat. That being said, it'll probably heavily pressure slower and bulkier teams because of its monstrous Attack, SD, great coverage, and Mold Breaker/Moxie. Choice Scarf should be interesting as well due to the potential of snowballing with Moxie. SR sets also look fun with Mold Breaker and Pinsir's ability to chip away teams and break down defensive cores. 
ok im tired now so im gonna sleep good night