I'm out atm so I haven't had a chance to include everyone's ban/DNB reasoning but here's what Lycans had to say:To my mans who thought Serp was bannable, pls explain
I'll try to post some more council reasoning behind votes when I get a chance (and of course council can post their own reasoning in thread as well).Lycans said:Azumarill Ban
Azumarill has proved to be a fairly consistent wall breaker for its good typing, abilities and access to priority. ( this even before of Amoongu's rise) all those things makes it quite difficult to swicth in it. ans Just a fast view at tier list its enough to realize that few mons can check it well (and it depends on the set it uses)
Serperior Ban
Grass isn't the most spammable type in UU but Serperior barely loses something at moment to use Leaf Storm with a very good speed tier (faster than most of Dragons in the tier) makes almost obligatory to have to run a fast grass resist with enought power to kill it and even this way they can fail if it has the right set (Glare / sub seed / z move)(edited)
Breloom Stay
As i said before breloom always in theory seems very angerous but in practice can be a very big threat only if your team is slow enough and lacks fight resists, its bad speed tier and the mediocre bulk make it an easy target to revenge kill or check it in different ways.
Seed Flare and HP Fire are prob mandatory, then Gleam can be slashed with Psychic and Earth PowerThat’s interesting, if it is able to run a set of Celebrate / Seed Flare / Dazzling Gleam / Hidden Power Fire (I don’t know what the moves constraints are like) without being nature locked, it could definitely be a threat, faces competition from Serperior but it’s much greater Speed and bulk post-boost definitely give it a niche of its own. Cool addition!
I don't mean to shit on your opinion, but there tons of things that Serp needs to look out for. Just off the top of my head, in 30 seconds I can think of a handful of mons you forgot to mention that can easily deal with Serp in one form or another.Well. Earlier I successfully predicted the Breloom situation we have now, and I have to say I wish Breloom had gotten banned. However, I'm not here to talk about Breloom, I'm here to talk about Serperior.
As with Breloom, people insist that Serp isn't broken. And yes, I do have to admit that Serperior has some counterplay. In order to make it easier to understand, I'll compare Serp to Xurkitree. Xurkitree wasn't too hard to revenge kill with a scarf or Maero, but it almost gauranteed a sac. Of course Serperior doesn't hit that hard from the bat, but it snowballs very, very fast. The reason why Xurk was banned wasn't just because it was too powerful, rather the community decided that it exerted too much pressure on slower paced teams. And this is where I draw the comparison. Think of some fast pokemon. Latias, Gengar, Infernape Tornadus. Serperior outspeeds all of these. In other words, you need some really fast pokemon to kill this thing. Of course, having to run one super fast poke on this slow team can be annoying. Let's not forget the fact this thing has glare as well. Anyway, Serperior is only outsped by nine UU pokemon. 9. Furthermore, 5 are mega. On a defensive team, you'll really like to have M-Aggro,M-Slowbro, or Malt. Those three are very, very good in the meta right now. If you choose any of those three, you're left with 4 pokemon. Ok. Well, what are they? Azelf, a hyper offense lead most commonly, if it uses unorthodox sets, it will need a Z move to ko Serp. Raikou. Good luck. Starmie. Decent, but it can't ko without rocks, and can't switch in whatsoever, so you'll have to sac one of your defensive mons most likely, which is very bad for those kinds of teams. Lastly, Crobat is the best on this list, but it hates glare, can be pursuited by Maero, and doesn't like rocks. In other words, Serp kills defensive teams without breaking a sweat, and many people look at it only from the offense perspective, which is a very common one right now, and it even puts in work against offense.
+2 252 SpA Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 198-234 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (Rocks+Leaf Storm can get very bad, especially with a life orb)
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 61-72 (17.7 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 123-144 (35.8 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 183-216 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As it switches in, you use one, hit it again and survive the heavy slam, then finish it off. You need a sweep with Quick Attack Scizor, or Offensive Maero? Just decide to stay in, and click the same button thrice. If your run life orb, all you need is M aggro to hit 75% and you can avoid that heavy slam, just kill it straight up
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 268-317 (88.7 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Resists stab? 80/130 special wall? Nah, you can't stop it.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Altaria-Mega: 182-214 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I learned this the hard way.
If you’re running two offensive pokes, what’s wrong with running a scarf mon? You said earlier you shouldn’t have to slap an offensive mon on a team besides stuff like Mola, but then said you’re not talking about pure stall.Not just straight up stall. Teams that use 4 walls and 2 offensive pokes etc. The thing is, it greatly restricts those offensive pokes to 9 natural revenge killers if megas are included, and if not, you have 5, most of which cannot kill. In other words, you're forced to slap a scarf on the back of your team. Which is why I made the compariosn to Xurk, which forced you to do something similar. If you're not using 100% stall(Which is reasonable if you want shorter games), and you're using a semi stall team or more defensive one, you'll need 2 pokes to 100% deal with serp,which is 1/3 of your team. Serperior is simply a threat that spirals out of control with one mistake, or even no mistakes at all. As I said earlier, there is no viable counter to Serp. You can't feel safe from Serp in one team slot. Chandelure? Hydreigon. Breloom even(Still broken, but to draw another comparison),Celebi,Maero,Swampert and so on. Now you look at Serperior. Serp,Muk(Leech Seed),Maggro(Runs right through, no recovery),Crobat(Glare),Revenge Killers(Glare,Seeds,Rocks).