Metagame NP: RU Stage 10: Your Makeup is Terrible

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EonX

Battle Soul
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Other than the obvious 3 rising (Cobalion, MGlalie, Scrafty) I'm going to discuss some other trends I think will start taking place without Reuniclus and Noivern around:

RISES:

Flygon:
This was already alluded to (too lazy to go back and check, so whoever mentioned this first can sue me :p) but Flygon is going to be the main Dragon in the tier without Noivern around. The Scarf set also loses a check in Reuniclus (seriously, this thing could set up on fucking Adamant Outrage o.o) and is a fairly reliable way to revenge Cobalion. On the subject of Cobalion, Flygon's defensive set does a p. good job of keeping it in check if you can get Flygon in on quickly enough. Mixed sets might also see a rise considering I don't think the other RU Dragons (Tyrantrum and Druddigon) are going to be able to use Special Attacks any time soon and Flygon's base 80 Special Attack is at least passable thanks to Draco Meteor.

Double Fighting cores: This is something I have experienced with already before the ban. It was good then and it only gets better with Noivern gone. In particular, I can see a core of two Fighting mons + Houndoom becoming very potent considering Houndoom checkmates a lot of the faster Ghost and Psychic mons. Oh, and it doesn't have to go full physical anymore to try and revenge Noivern earlier, thus allowing it to run Dark Pulse over Crunch (I'd still run 40-80 Attack EVs to let Sucker and Pursuit have some power to them) Top Fighting mon choices for such a core would be Gallade, Medicham, Scrafty, and even Sawk. I'd include Cobalion, but such a core generally wants to smash stuff hard right off the bat, but I guess it could work with Coba too.

Uxie: Seriously, why the fuck has nobody mentioned this thing? It was literal bait for Reuniclus to set up on. With 75 / 130 / 130 defenses, access to Calm Mind, and the ability to use a plethora of support moves, Uxie is looking really nice right now. Base 95 Speed is also pretty solid for a defensive Pokemon and it beats a lot of the Fighting-types in the tier 1v1, tho it does obviously lose to Scrafty if it lacks Dazzling Gleam. Although it does need Wish support to fully function with its defensive set, one of its best partners, Aromatisse, happens to cover this and provide an answer to Scrafty.

Meloetta: With fast Fighting-types bound to be popular, a fast Psychic-type isn't going to be a bad investment by any means. Although Meloetta will struggle with the pursuit support most Fighting-types will be given, it isn't like Meloetta is defenseless against them. SubCM just got a ton better with Reuniclus gone and offensive sets (Specs and LO especially) are very difficult to switch into thanks to Meloetta's high Special Attack and great coverage.

DROPS:

Shiftry:
While it was already sort of dropping due to Flygon, it just lost the ability to soft check Reuniclus and make most Noiverns think twice about firing off a Hurricane thanks to STAB Sucker Punch. The imminent rise of Fighting-types is also not going to help its cause, and Flygon only got better with Noivern's banning.

Mega Steelix: With the banishment of Noivern and Reuniclus, Fighting-types and Flygon got a lot better. This is compounded by the fact that Cobalion and Scrafty, 2 of the best Pokemon in the meta right now, can deal a ton of damage to Mega Lix quickly. Add to this the fact that Meloetta, a Psychic-type with a powerful coverage option to hit Mega Lix with, is also likely going to see increased usage and this amounts to Mega Lix's usage likely seeing a decline. Most balance teams are probably going to start looking for Rocks users that can at least handle a couple of hits from Fighting mons, such as Uxie, Seismitoad, and even Mesprit. It also helps that these Pokemon can handle some hits from Flygon, Houndoom, or both.

Drapion: While Spiritomb is saved by the fact that it can check some of the Fighting-types (Medicham, Hitmonlee, Gallade to an extent) Drapion has no such luck. While it was one of the more reliable answers to Reuniclus on teams that couldn't afford the use of Spiritomb, it is unable to handle most of the Fighting-types in the tier. While it can also be a decent answer to Uxie and Meloetta, 2 Psychic-types likely on the rise, one must remember that Spiritomb can do the same thing while still checking some Fighting-types reliably. While Spiritomb's usage may drop some due to the rise in Cobalion and Scrafty, it at least redeems itself by being able to check Uxie, Meloetta, and a lot of the secondary Fighters, something Drapion simply can't do as reliably.

DARK HORSES:

Delphox:
While Meloetta will overall likely be better, Delphox's high Speed tier will be nice to hit non-Scarf Flygon. Fire STAB also gives Delphox an easier time vs. more defensive teams that are likely to have resistances / immunities to Normal-type moves for Meloetta. Delphox will still struggle with the fact that its frailer than Meloetta and its even more Houndoom bait than Melo is, but being faster than most Fighting-types and having the ability to carry Dazzling Gleam to catch Spiritomb and Scrafty off guard will be nice perks for it at least.

Braviary: With Flygon likely rising further (Defog user) and Fighting-types on the rise as well (weak to Flying) Braviary has a chance to be the most relevant it has been probably since Sticky Web meta. (yay, the way back machine) Scarf sets will be able to outspeed most Fighting-types in the tier while Life Orb sets will be absolute nukes that offensive teams will have very, very limited switch-ins for. Braviary's main issues will lie in the fact that it's prone to getting worn down really quickly, and still takes neutral damage from Fighting-type moves

Mesprit: This is an interesting case, and another one that I'm surprised nobody has brought up. Mesprit has solid overall stats, a Fighting resistance, and access to a lot of solid support moves, not the least of which is Healing Wish. Healing Wish has the potential to be deadly in this metagame when you have shit like Cobalion, Scrafty, MGlalie, and Gallade roaming around, all of which having very limited switch-ins atm. And Mesprit happens to be the most viable user of the move. Outside of its Scarf Healing Wish set, Mesprit is going to have a very hard time standing out from Uxie and Meloetta, but it can function as a bit of a middle ground between the two (a Rocks setter with some of Uxie's bulk and some of Meloetta's power)

Fletchinder: Do I really need to explain this? Super frail, can't take many hits, but Gale Wings Acrobatics is going to be fierce with all of the Fighting-types roaming around. It needs hazard control support, but it's not like that won't be hard to come by with the likes of Flygon and Hitmonlee around. It may not be able to sweep entire teams, but being able to clean them up is certainly a possibility. Just watch out for Sucker Punch mind games from opposing Houndooms.

I may be missing some things, but I think that covers it at a base... lol
 

DKFirelord

Back this time I swear!
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So I've recently started using exeegutor and it have been working amazingly very underrated since not much can switch in of Specs Leafstorm or Psyschic it's also I think it's one one of those Dark Horeses EonX mentioned but yeah Eggy in my opinion is amazing
 
tfw u wanted a playable RU but coba seems bork
nah but this meta will probs be much better, i'll ladder soon, but stuff like mushy, flygon, and co. seem much better while sneasel is gonna become worse b/c ice shard + knock off was sex for suspects.

Edit - I feel like flygon is much easier to rk BC worse speed tier and mushy can run colbur while not being item dependent and actually stalling out LO sneasel without an item. Idk I'm just theorymonning though
 
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Holiday

on my best behavior
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tfw u wanted a playable RU but coba seems bork
nah but this meta will probs be much better, i'll ladder soon, but stuff like mushy, flygon, and co. seem much better while sneasel is gonna become worse b/c ice shard + knock off was sex for suspects.
If Musharna and Flygon are gonna be better, and Sneasel eats both of them for breakfast, how does it become worse? Hell, Knock Off + Low Kick does around 75% to Cobalion.
 
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Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
tfw u wanted a playable RU but coba seems bork
nah but this meta will probs be much better, i'll ladder soon, but stuff like mushy, flygon, and co. seem much better while sneasel is gonna become worse b/c ice shard + knock off was sex for suspects.

Edit - I feel like flygon is much easier to rk BC worse speed tier and mushy can run colbur while not being item dependent and actually stalling out LO sneasel without an item. Idk I'm just theorymonning though
Sneasel will probably become better with the rise of stuff like Flygon and the amount of Psychic types around, Fighting types like Coba are still a problem but like above, KO and Low Kick can do 75% to Coba anyways
 

EonX

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Something that I've been messing around with a bit lately and having some fun with:


Delphox @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind

Calm Mind Delphox is pretty flexible right now. It has the Speed tier to be really annoying vs. offense without a boost, but it can boost up against slower teams to really pressure the shit out of them. While most CM Delphoxs use Psyshock + Grass Knot, I've been toying around with Psychic + Dazzling Gleam. Psychic allows Delphox to retain the ability to pressure Alomomola and Quagsire while still having a Psychic STAB. Dazzling Gleam is really fucking useful in this meta. It OHKOes Scrafty and defensive Flygon while also allowing it to hit predicted Spiritomb and Houndoom switch-ins and force them to Sucker Punch or risk getting KOed the next turn, thus allowing Delphox to (likely) safely switch out of them. Colbur Berry is certainly an item worth exploring if you plan on using this set for purely sweeping as it gives Dazzling Gleam even more mileage vs. Spiritomb and Houndoom, but I like the fact that Life Orb lets Delphox wallbreak as well as sweep. Do note that Gleam isn't fully necessary to pressure Spiritomb. Fire Blast actually does marginally more to it, but having Gleam takes away the risk factor of trying to punish the switch-in. Obviously, the traditional Psyshock + Grass Knot combo is still perfectly viable (and better in some situations) but being able to reliably pressure Spiritomb and defensive Flygon as well as outright OHKO Scrafty is pretty nice too.
 

Senpai D.M

さようなら
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It's been a while but I felt I'd share a fun mon

Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232Hp / 208 Def / 48 SpA / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Dazzling Gleam

(Evs from Nu but the set I prefer to use in Ru as well) This mon fits on mostly balance / stall teams as a solid cleric and pivot thanks to regenerator! Unlike Aromatisse I feel like it does its role as a cleric but also lasts much longer than the latter, if you have a free mega slot give it a try.
 
With the recent tier shifts, we have lost Cobalion, which was arguably a broken mon, and in return got Trevenant. Firstly, I recommend that you don't use the Harvest set, which is pretty mediocre and unlike Gourgeist, can't take advantage of its typing defensively with only 85/76/82 bulk. Secondly, while the Harvest set is bad, Trev is still recognized for it, thus people will prepare for that. So what are things that would switch in vs. a set like this? Houndoom, Emboar, Scrafty... What can take on these Pokemon? A banded set.


Trevenant @ Choice Band
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Shadow Claw / Poison Jab
- Earthquake / Rock Slide
- Trick

The purpose of this set is not only to act as a wallbreaker, but to lure in Pokemon that would switch into the Harvest set and take them out. People really overlook Trev's 110 attack stat with good STAB, decent coverage, and Trick, which allows to cripple what can switch into it, which is a pretty short list. Wood Hammer hits insanely hard with 120 BP, coupled with STAB, 110 atk, and the Choice Band. Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 129-153 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So yeah, pretty strong. Shadow Claw is STAB that hits Bronzong and Sigilyph, while Poison Jab can be used to 2HKO Tangrowth and OHKO Virizion, as well as 2HKO Togetic after rocks. EQ is for Houndoom, Emboar, and to 2HKO specially defensive Megalix after rocks and a spike, while Rock Slide can hit Fletchinder and Braviary. Finally, Trick is to cripple things that can switch in and not be 2HKO'd, like Amoongus, Hitmontop, Weezing, etc.

Overall, not amazing, but still a great wallbreaker and lure in a way since most people know Trev just for its Harvest set.
 

phantom

Banned deucer.

Trevenant @ Choice Band
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Shadow Claw / Poison Jab
- Earthquake / Rock Slide
- Trick
You have to use Shadow Claw on Trevenant; otherwise, you're better off with some other offensive Grass-type lol. The Ghost typing it its niche and not using it is pretty huge waste tbh, especially since PJAB doesn't really target anything that neither of its STABs can't break, aside from maybe offensive Tangrowth which doesn't even want to switch in anyways. I also think you should use EQ over Rock Slide always seeing as how Rock Slide hits only one target neither STAB can hit, whereas EQ smashes Skuntank and Drapion in addition to everything else Rock Slide aims for. Having said that, I played around 12 games with CB Trev so far and it's pretty neat, but it's pretty slow in comparison to say Rotom-C and not as sturdy as Tangrowth, but the Fighting immunity and CB Shadow Claw do give it a decent niche though. Those offensive STABs are actually quite good.

Fourth slot is pretty fun to change around. I've used Horn Leech so that it doesn't get worn down all that quickly, but Trick seems pretty cool too. I've also thought about using Wisp in the last slot to put Amoonguss into 2HKO range for a CB Shadow Claw.
 
With the recent tier shifts, we have lost Cobalion, which was arguably a broken mon, and in return got Trevenant. Firstly, I recommend that you don't use the Harvest set, which is pretty mediocre and unlike Gourgeist, can't take advantage of its typing defensively with only 85/76/82 bulk. Secondly, while the Harvest set is bad, Trev is still recognized for it, thus people will prepare for that. So what are things that would switch in vs. a set like this? Houndoom, Emboar, Scrafty... What can take on these Pokemon? A banded set.


Trevenant @ Choice Band
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Shadow Claw / Poison Jab
- Earthquake / Rock Slide
- Trick

The purpose of this set is not only to act as a wallbreaker, but to lure in Pokemon that would switch into the Harvest set and take them out. People really overlook Trev's 110 attack stat with good STAB, decent coverage, and Trick, which allows to cripple what can switch into it, which is a pretty short list. Wood Hammer hits insanely hard with 120 BP, coupled with STAB, 110 atk, and the Choice Band. Don't believe me? Take a look at this.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 129-153 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So yeah, pretty strong. Shadow Claw is STAB that hits Bronzong and Sigilyph, while Poison Jab can be used to 2HKO Tangrowth and OHKO Virizion, as well as 2HKO Togetic after rocks. EQ is for Houndoom, Emboar, and to 2HKO specially defensive Megalix after rocks and a spike, while Rock Slide can hit Fletchinder and Braviary. Finally, Trick is to cripple things that can switch in and not be 2HKO'd, like Amoongus, Hitmontop, Weezing, etc.

Overall, not amazing, but still a great wallbreaker and lure in a way since most people know Trev just for its Harvest set.

Cool set froggyboy! Could life orb work to ease predictions? Earthquake is more for steels since houndoom Is Ohko'd by wood hammer after rocks(even after rocks it's dead because life orb). Emboar takes a ton from wood hammer too. Also does anyone know good teammates for It?

252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 202-238 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Houndoom: 276-326 (94.8 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
 
I wouldn't recommend Life Orb. You are already getting large amounts of recoil since Wood Hammer is your most spammable move, so with LO you are just killing yourself more than you need to.
 
I've got a bit of a question about trev specifically the CB set. Outside of trick, why am i using this over CB torterra? torterra has the same speed with more bulk and only one point less base attack power. I also feel it has a slightly more advantageous typing as it isnt weak to knock off (though both type combos arent exactly amazing right now imo). Torterra also has more powerful stab moves that have better neutral coverage. I know CB torterra isnt the most common thing, but i just noticed this today while i heard people talking about trev running CB. Feel free to prove me wrong, but it's something i think should be discussed.
 

EonX

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Band Trevenant is looking pretty neat as a solid niche wallbreaker + spinblocker. Defensive sets still have use, but not because of Harvest. Natural Cure is pretty fucking amazing for a spinblocker on more defensive teams and should be the primary reason you consider it for such teams. That said, if you don't need Natural Cure, you're better off using Jellicent or XL Pumpkin for a spinblocker on more defensive teams. Anyway, on with the basic rises, falls, and dark horses after the shift:

Rises:

Tyrantrum:
This one is pretty basic. It outspeeds Trevenant easily and lost its top offensive check in Cobalion. Its Scarf set alone is going to make it damn difficult for any offensive team in the tier to breathe. Without Cobalion, Scarf Tyrantrum will likely be able to come right in and click a STAB to KO something as Cobalion was the only offensive Steel-type to resist Rock (4x) and Dragon. Balance teams have to be wary of Rock Polish sets, which can still run rampant on offensive teams without Cobalion around, so Tyrantrum is looking a good bit better.

Mega Glalie and Sneasel: I'll lump these two together considering Cobalion was their best offensive switch-in. Mega Glalie will probably benefit more considering Cobalion could also outspeed it whereas Sneasel could at least dent it with Low Kick if it wanted to before going down. That being said, Sneasel's extra Dark STAB is going to be very nice as balance / bulky offense is likely going to be preferred to keep the likes of Tyrantrum and Meloetta in check more reliably.

Meloetta: With Cobalion gone, Meloetta finally gets to be in the spotlight. I've said for a while now that the AoA set is probably the single hardest wallbreaker to switch into right now, and that's never been more true with Cobalion, a top offensive Normal resist gone. Specs Meloetta is an absolute nuke and AoA just doesn't give two shits about most switch-ins due to its ability to switch moves. Calm Mind sets are also dangerous, but Scarf took about the last hit it could stand in viability. Unless you have no other way to rk Tyrant and Scrafty, you probably shouldn't consider Scarf Melo. The power level it has is insanely good right now.

Aromatisse / Togetic: Quite possibly the best defensive Fairy-types in the tier and both hated Cobalion. With Cobalion gone and Scrafty likely to rise, both Aromatisse and Togetic are going to be key defensive stops to it and most other Fighting-types. The rise of Tyrantrum, Mega Glalie, and Sneasel might be enough to hold Togetic back, but Aromatisse should be just fine.

Drops:

I really don't see too many major drops happening. I mean, Pelipper will probably be the biggest casualty considering one of its primary niches was a Defogger that could also beat Cobalion. But it's still a decent defensive Defog user, so it's not going to drop considerably I don't think. Jellicent is still the best bulky Water-type in the tier, but obviously loses a little bit of value with Cobalion not around anymore. Uxie still soft checks most Fighting-types and spreads paralysis around better than most, which will be very helpful for the wallbreakers that balance and bulky offense teams will be carrying. So, Cobalion leaving does hurt these Pokemon some, but not to the point where they're just going to fall off the map. They'll drop a little, and maybe even a rank in Viability Rankings, but not to rock bottom.

Dark Horses:

Virizion:
This is probably the most intriguing case the tier has now. Virizion was overshadowed by both Cobalion and Tangrowth a bit. With Cobalion now gone, offense will need a new Knock Off absorber, and Virizion is the next best choice. It'll still be a bit overshadowed by Tangrowth, but with Cobalion out of the picture, Virizion becomes a better Swords Dance user. Defensive Poison-types might see a small resurgence and Virizion has the ability to use Zen Headbutt for them if this becomes the case.

Mega Steelix: This is a strange case. Although Fighting-types are still plenty common, the top one just left. While Scrafty is still a massive threat, it will be interesting to see if Mega Steelix will gain some viability back. Most current Fighting-types are absolutely destroyed by invested Heavy Slam and it completely bones the Fairy-types likely to see a spike in usage. Not only that, but Mega Steelix works best on bulky offense and balance teams, the team types which are likely to see the most use with Cobalion gone.

Alomomola: Cobalion basically used it for setup fodder, so Mola is definitely breathing easier. Alomomola's position will largely depend on what happens with Virizion imo. If Virizion doesn't make any sort of major jump, then I wouldn't be surprised to see Mola rise a bit considering it handles Sneasel and Tyrant quite nicely while also being an effective pivot into Meloetta thanks to Regenerator. Any Mega Glalie lacking Freeze-Dry will also lose. However, Scrafty still exists and Tangrowth is a pretty major force right now.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Trev is cool,not amazing but cool as a wallbreaker. Scrafty is basically the Lord of RU now, and I definitely want Mega Glailie, Meloetta,and Sneasel get some shine now.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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Everyone knows how Sigilyph is probably the absolute bane of slower bulky teams, but I feel that the meta has popular threats, namely Meloetta, Houndoom, and Scrafty, that can stop the All-Out Attacker and / or the CM + 2 attacks set from doing too much due to slight coverage issues, and bulky teams have been packing Pursuit Spiritombs or the occasional Drapion / Skuntank to nullify Sigilyph as a threat. To compensate for this, I'm just going to revive an old set that has been flying under the radar for some time, but should definitely still be feared, if not even more, by bulky teams all the same.


Sigilyph @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 16 Def / 248 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Shift
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Air Slash

When people mention Flame Orb Sigilyph, most users gravitate towards Cosmic Power + Stored Power. NO. Screw that 'Double Power' crap, you do nothing to resolve or even improve Sigilyph's matchups, and you leave yourself even more Dark bait than before, which you really don't want to do when Scrafty and Houndoom are big-time threats that no one wants to give free turns to. The common way to cheese through a Double Power Sigilyph, aside from just critting / outright KOing it because this things takes ages to boost itself up, is simply Knocking Off the Flame Orb and have your Dark-type wall it all the doo-dah-day (if said Knock Off user is the Dark-type, have a cleric handy, or put Shed Skin on your Scrafty and start Dragon Dancing in its face). If you're going to bulky boost, how about using a mono-STAB that doesn't have immunities, strikes the aforementioned Sigilyph stops for decent / great damage, and is also decently strong pre-boost?

Why give up the Defense boost from Cosmic Power in favor of Calm Mind? Simple: you really don't need it. Either the burn sees through your ability to take physical hits, or it just will not matter against hard-hitting threats such as Mega Glalie, Tyrantrum, and Sneasel. The HP and Defense EVs are all you need to ensure that Sigilyph does not get OHKOed by a burned Rhyperior's Rock Blast, and from there you can just Roost in its face while burn chips away at Rhyperior's health. From there you can focus on power, which means you don't have to boost as often, which also means you won't be as subject to untimely crits or the like. Another mistake people make with Flame Orb Sigilyph is not giving it Speed investment: don't do that, you're asking for some slower heavy hitter such as Exploud, Emboar, Tyrantrum, Jolly Scrafty, etc. to just end your sweep prematurely. The Speed lets you outspeed positive base 95s but you can max it out if you want; I just don't feel that this Sigilyph will benefit that much from speedtying opposing Sigilyphs (it still loses to CM + Psyshock Sigi, but beats All-Out Attacker Sigilyph anyway).

So why use this Sigilyph over other Sigilyphs? How about the fact that it utterly wastes common defensive cores, if not whole teams right now? This Sigilyph has 3 main advantages over other Sigilyph: it cannot be paralyzed or put to sleep, it can spread burns, and it relies on an entirely different STAB that has no immunities. All these qualities allow Flame Orb Sigilyph to utterly throw most Sigilyph countermeasures for a loop:
- They can't threaten Sigilyph with Thunder Wave nor Pursuit.
- They can Knock Off, but that won't stop Sigilyph from burning them first nor does it even hurt Sigilyph's damage output, so they need to take some time to heal off the burn before they can properly respond to Sigilyph: time Sigilyph can use to accumulate more Calm Minds.
- Most Flying resists in the tier are absolutely crippled by a burn.

If you're intending to run a bulky team in this tier, make absolutely sure you have the means to stop this Sigilyph before even considering the other Sigilyphs, or it will just tear you up and you can't do a thing to stop it.
 
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tehy

Banned deucer.
punchshroom giving away the best sets for anyone to see... sigi was my secret ace

oh well, might as well drop the realest sets to exist:

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252* HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD (Speed Creep Redacted, because fuck you)
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake

oh im sorry flame orb sigi D: here's the hard counter, the strong stop to a lot of stuff which can easily heal up and strike back. Why max attack? just to pressurize the opponent, and to OHKO tyrantrum because fuck that thing. Curse + Rest sucks nowadays, but ResTalk kicks ass, can sponge various kinds of status, 1v1 down amoonguss, not care too much about Scald.

Tangrowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb

breaks everything with good prediction, or just pops off 50% from offensive resists with a leaf storm. misses out on Spd Amoonguss (needs rocks + knocked off on normal spread), Golbat, and everything else basically can theoretically lose. checks virizion, rotom-c, m-lix, rhyperior. What a lord...
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
The best tree set is cathy by far.
Trevenant @ Starf Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Horn Leech
- Phantom Force
- Earthquake
This thing is unstoppable
But srsly gourgeist is still probably better. And loss of coba makes glalie even better. With flygon getting insane usage, glalie is probably the best mon in the tier.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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One Pokemon I've found to be quite effective given the current powerhouses of offense that includes: Scarf Tyrantrum, and other top offensive mons such as Mega Glalie and Scarf Flygon, and even more rare threats such as Sneasel, is Klinklang. The opponent locking in Scarf Tyrantrum into Head Smash or Outrage, Scarf Flygon into Outrage, killing a Pokemon with Sneasel, or using either STAB move with Scarf Durant affords you a set up opportunity which allows you to counter sweep the opponents offensive teams effectively. Below are two replays in which Klinklang performs this role adequately (and amazingly in the case of the second replay).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ru-72489
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ru-72491

Its too soon to say too much about the new meta game, but I feel like its interesting in the way that offense is very good in it, as there are many offensive powerhouses, but other offensive mons can be extremely hard with offense to deal with, such as M Glalie and Scarf Tyrantrum. I think in order to effectively run offense in this meta you are going to have to run some niche mons, but I think its 100% worth it given the effectiveness of the playstyle at the moment.

Klinklang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Gear Grind
- Shift Gear
- Wild Charge


Has anyone else seen some effective sets in the current meta that might have been over looked in previous ones? Now that Cobalion is gone, team building seems a lot more free, but the tier also seems less stable, the stability should increase over time, as it is very common for a meta to experience instability after the best Pokemon in the tier leaves, but we'll see how the dust settles I guess :O.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
One Pokemon I've found to be quite effective given the current powerhouses of offense that includes: Scarf Tyrantrum, and other top offensive mons such as Mega Glalie and Scarf Flygon, and even more rare threats such as Sneasel, is Klinklang. The opponent locking in Scarf Tyrantrum into Head Smash or Outrage, Scarf Flygon into Outrage, killing a Pokemon with Sneasel, or using either STAB move with Scarf Durant affords you a set up opportunity which allows you to counter sweep the opponents offensive teams effectively. Below are two replays in which Klinklang performs this role adequately (and amazingly in the case of the second replay).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ru-72489
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ru-72491

Its too soon to say too much about the new meta game, but I feel like its interesting in the way that offense is very good in it, as there are many offensive powerhouses, but other offensive mons can be extremely hard with offense to deal with, such as M Glalie and Scarf Tyrantrum. I think in order to effectively run offense in this meta you are going to have to run some niche mons, but I think its 100% worth it given the effectiveness of the playstyle at the moment.

Klinklang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Gear Grind
- Shift Gear
- Wild Charge


Has anyone else seen some effective sets in the current meta that might have been over looked in previous ones? Now that Cobalion is gone, team building seems a lot more free, but the tier also seems less stable, the stability should increase over time, as it is very common for a meta to experience instability after the best Pokemon in the tier leaves, but we'll see how the dust settles I guess :O.
man, i just look at your team and it's like

-no Mlix stop-

-klinklang-

-salivate-

Oh yeah, as for good sets, i've been using Cofagrigus to some effect:

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Haze

T-spikes are good, WoW is good, Hex is awesome in conjunction with both. Last slot is wide open, some good options are :

Pain Split if you a basic
Block if your opp. is overconfident and thinks he can annoy you with regenerator Amoonguss or something
Calm Mind if your swag is true
Knock Off for true annoyance
Rest ?


p.s. flygon takes 1 heavy slam badly and nothing on your team really pivots into it
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Lol a Pokemon with no reliable recovery and a susceptibility to spikes which is most teams only answer to 3 of these mons is definitely 6-0ing this team. Obviously it's not the greatest match up, but it can be easily over whelmed with proper play. But your high quality in depth criticism of my team is surely appreciated as well as your "swag" Cofagrigus move list format, keep up the excellent posting tehy!
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
Lol a Pokemon with no reliable recovery and a susceptibility to spikes which is most teams only answer to 3 of these mons is definitely 6-0ing this team. Obviously it's not the greatest match up, but it can be easily over whelmed with proper play. But your high quality in depth criticism of my team is surely appreciated as well as your "swag" Cofagrigus move list format, keep up the excellent posting tehy!
i seem to be getting called out a lot lately for shitty, short posts. fair enough, I do tend towards that, at least you didn't delete it haha

All right, here's a more in-depth criticism of your team.

As i said, Mega Steelix really has excellent matchups with most of your team. I feel that Klinklang is a problematic Pokemon here, because it just allows Mega Steelix in for free. And although it baits out Earthquake, a smart user of Steelix could really just Heavy Slam, since it can't punish that very well.

Another serious problem your team has is SpD Alomomola; in fact, none of your team wins 1v1 except Klinklang, which doesn't really want to risk switching in on a Scald, since that cripples it AND leaves it unable to defeat Alomomola. Healing Wish Mesprit can give it a second life, true, but still. Overall though, you have a lot of hard hitters which deal 40-55% to alomomola, so if you can force it out and keep Spikes up you can take it down; then again, a well-played alomomola can have you tearing your hair out, and if the foe gets off a good hazard removal you'll be out in the cold. (I assume your Tyrantrum is Choice Scarf, which I think is fair given that you don't have an amazing defensive backbone or anything incredibly fast; all you've got is mega glalie's Ice Shard).

Additionally, as many know, alomomola + Mega Steelix is one of the more popular cores in general. And most of the stuff that forces out Alomomola is simply a free wish into Mega Steelix. (Mega Glalie doesn't really 2HKO with Freeze Dry, so once he's Toxic'D alomomola can just WishTect to death, Flygon can just forget about it, and Granbull, though theoretically able to smash Steelix with Earthquake / Close Combat / Fire Punch, in practice has to deal with being Choiced).

In fact, your only real stop to SpD Alomomola is Klinklang, which is unfortunate since that's also taken advantage of so brutally by Mega Steelix. In fact, Alomomola can easily afford to wish in its face and pass it over to Mega Steelix-or even Wish, then fire off a Toxic as you try to double switch!. Mega Steelix could give a fuck.

in short, Klinklang being such a free platform for Mega Steelix is troubling for your team. 6-0 troubling? No, but troubling nonetheless.

Another problem I see with your team really is the general lack of stallbreaking, and lack of ability to punch through defensive cores in general. It's a collection of sort of heavy offense hard-hitters that all do too much to switch in on and start healing, but what really creates that initial breach that allows you to crack the whole thing wide open? And what happens if the foe sacks a Pokemon and starts anew? The answer is spikes, granted, but if they've got good hazard removal - in particular, hitmontop can spin on Mega Glalie - then you might be in for a rough ride. As i mentioned, you've got no way to punch through Alomomola-and quite frankly, the same goes for Jellicent. Sometimes 'offensive pressure' just isn't enough. And so it's with great pleasure that I present to you the possible solution to your problems

Tangrowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb

ta da! yep, it's the Tangrowth set I posted up there. Obviously, this Tangrowth set runs train on stall and balance cores, with the somewhat exception of Amoonguss (s/o to senpai d.m. for running Amoonguss stall, not sure if anyone else does). And even amoonguss won't like an HP fire to the face with a layer of spikes down-not something my team's equipped to do, but i'm sure yours can pull it off. It's actually a switch into Mega Steelix, and while it doesn't always win 1v1, it will usually manage to leave a huge hole, or punish a switch-out while staying healthy enough to switch in again. It also manages to take care of Alomomola consistently, actually forcing it out even if it gets Scald burned, and can take on all jellicent (hex hurts a lot though, rip). It even takes care of many flygon, which is cool since that mon can annoy you quite a bit under the right circumstances.

as for Cofagrigus:

good point ! here's my unswagged explanation of him:

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Haze

Toxic Spikes do what Toxic Spikes do, like poison the opponent and provide Toxic Spikes support. The crux of this set

Will-o-Wisp does what Will-o-Wisp does, burning things whether they solid or frail

Hex is a STAB which does what STABs do.

The last slot can be used for a number of moves that serve niche uses depending on your team and usually won't be used, meaning there's not much to say about them that isn't obvious:

Pain Split, which would merit some discussion except everyone knows what it does
Block, which actually does about what I said it did
Calm Mind, which does fairly obvious things and kind of sucks ("has swag") but can be cool sometimes
Knock Off, which does fairly obvious things and kind of sucks ("has swag") but can be cool sometimes.
Rest, which does fairly obvious things and really sucks
Haze, which I didn't even mention but did put in my moveset. It does haze things.

this description definitely contributes more, so sorry I didn't furnish it up front

some things I could've included are...uh, mainly that Toxic Spikes is cool for SubCm Melo and SubCm Delphox, which is great if your team is weak to them (hint: if your team is a stall team, it probably is), and pop Virizion's Lum to let you burn it (could let it get away with poisoning, but Hex still hurts).

Overall, i'm not saying my post was amazing. It didn't have much. But what it did have, was meaningful. Mega Steelix IS a problem for your team, and that problem IS exacerbated by Klinklang. Moreover, that Cofagrigus set IS good in this current metagame.

i suppose i've buried the lede, because there's a larger issue in your post that i'm addressing now, at the end. which is to say: i feel like you took my post in an attacking manner. that's too bad, because i felt quite playful when I wrote it. I guess that I misjudged our relationship... unfortunate, but I guess there's nothing to be done about it. still, you seem like a cool dude and I look forward to the day when my perception meets reality in this instance

edit:

i stand by this last statement to the end, if i was kidding and you took it as an attack then that''s very unfortunate
 
Last edited:
disregarding the off-topic argument above, one thing i've found really fucking good is SubCM Meloetta. I stole a team w/ it and it completely eats up balance after a boost unless it has escavalier or faster hard-hitters like m-glalie w/ double edge or sth. virizion's also pretty cool right now, scrafty's a fkn monster. Also the offensive tangrowth set tehy posted above is really good although the team i have uses sleep powder > knock off. Overall, this meta is really cool and RU's finally fun to play again imo; really looking to get back into this meta n_n
 
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