np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

[astrohawke]

Blissey is 1 mon.
Many mons have Mach Punch.
Terakion can't exactly set up with a Mach Puncher. You can't always OHKO,but he can't set up.

Why must people take things so literally. There are 4 pokemon that can use mach punch in OU. I'm sure I can come up with 4 OU counters to kyogre too. Blissey, Latias, Quagsire, Ludicolo. It doesn't change the fact that you're suggesting a team should carry 1 of these pokemon to deal with the threat. And given all the other pokemon that also have really few counters, you can see what the problem with trying to not get swept by at least 1 of them is.

Need I also mention that mach punchers are not a counter, it's a revenge killer. Meaning something like Terrakion doesn't set up on the mach puncher, it sets up on the thing that it kills before your mach puncher comes in.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Why must people take things so literally. There are 4 pokemon that can use mach punch in OU. I'm sure I can come up with 4 OU counters to kyogre too. Blissey, Latias, Quagsire, Ludicolo. It doesn't change the fact that you're suggesting a team should carry 1 of these pokemon to deal with the threat. And given all the other pokemon that also have really few counters, you can see what the problem with trying to not get swept by at least 1 of them is.

Need I also mention that mach punchers are not a counter, it's a revenge killer. Meaning something like Terrakion doesn't set up on the mach puncher, it sets up on the thing that it kills before your mach puncher comes in.

Except most of Kyogres counters are UU/NU,unlike Dory's and Terakion's counters >.>
Seriously,it's not that hard to deal with them.
Dory can't take balloons,Terakion hates any form of priority and is even easier to wall,Landlos has about the same coverage as Doryuuzu,Garchomp is only slightly faster than Landlos,but gets nothing in sand other than Hax Veil.

Having a Mach Puncher is just preparing.
A Mach puncher doesn't just counter sand sweepers,you're also not forced to use them,you can also use physical walls or just use something physically bulky.
Rain on the other hand,FORCES you to use 2 - 3 counters or a weather inducer,because the Trio is the same mon,with different coverage moves and resistances.
Same STAB,same boosts,perfect coverage between them,and perfect offensive synergy.

 

[astrohawke]

Except that the broken trio's members each handle each others counters.
Special wall? DD Kingdra and kabutops.
Physical wall? Special Ludicolo.
Nattorei? Focus Blast Ludi and Low Kick Kabu.
Tentacruel? *insert grass attack here* Ludi and DD Kingdra.
Weather inducers? DD Kingdra

Unlike Terakion and Dory,which are again,weak to the same counters.
Sand is a lot more manageable than rain.
Half of the sand sweepers are weak to Ice(Landlos,Garchomp,Sandslash) and the other half is weak to Mach Punch.(Doryuuzu,Terakion)
The one you should worry about the most is Sandslash,who is barely used.

If anything, having the same counters makes them more deadly because 1 lures out the counters and weakens it enough for the others to kill it and sweep.
With rain, you bring in ludicolo, specs kingdra, I switch to special wall and stop you. You bring out DD kingdra and kabutops, I switch to physical wall and stop you. Not saying rain isn't broken because they can get through a lot of these walls but you get the picture.
For any given team, I'm more likely to have a special wall + physical wall than multiple physical walls covering the same types of pokemon.

Except most of Kyogres counters are UU/NU,unlike Dory's and Terakion's counters >.>
Seriously,it's not that hard to deal with them.
Dory can't take balloons,Terakion hates any form of priority and is even easier to wall,Landlos has about the same coverage as Doryuuzu,Garchomp is only slightly faster than Landlos,but gets nothing in sand other than Hax Veil.

Stop making up excuses that have nothing to do with anything. What does speed and coverage have to do with anything. We're talking about counters to these pokemon and they are very few. Few enough that it requires every team to have 2 or more of only a handful of pokemon that can deal with them which is overcentralization.

Hitmontop isn't exactly super OU either. Nor is mach punch infernape these days. And kyogre was just an example. I'm sure I can come up with an Uber that has way more OU counters.

Having a Mach Puncher is just preparing.
A Mach puncher doesn't just counter sand sweepers,you're also not forced to use them,you can also use physical walls or just use something physically bulky.
Rain on the other hand,FORCES you to use 2 - 3 counters or a weather inducer,because the Trio is the same mon,with different coverage moves and resistances.
Same STAB,same boosts,perfect coverage between them,and perfect offensive synergy.

Name a physical wall that can take hits from 3 of those pokemon I mentioned and counter them. You need 2-3 physical walls or 2 walls and a mach puncher to handle them just like with rain.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

If anything, having the same counters makes them more deadly because 1 lures out the counters and weakens it enough for the others to kill it and sweep.
With rain, you bring in ludicolo, specs kingdra, I switch to special wall and stop you. You bring out DD kingdra and kabutops, I switch to physical wall and stop you. Not saying rain isn't broken because they can get through a lot of these walls but you get the picture.
For any given team, I'm more likely to have a special wall + physical wall than multiple physical walls covering the same types of pokemon.

Having a Physical wall + a Mach Puncher is a lot better than having a Physical wall + Special wall + Something to change weather + something to resist Water.

 

[Benlisted]

Not everyone is going to be running Nattorei.
There are tons and tons of pages of people discussing this.
You have to use specialized counters,a weather inducer,run your own weather team,or use 2 - 3 mons from a very small list.
It's over centralizing.
I agree with XienZo though,rain wouldn't be so bad without the trio.
Omastar,Gorebyss,etc. aren't as overpowering as the trio,but they're still powerful.

I never suggested everyone run Natt, and I in fact agree that you have to use some of a small group of pokes to beat Rain without running a dedicated weather. I said this in my previous posts, and mentioned that Rain itself is overcentralised by the trio too. I then offered a solution by suggesting removing the trio or part of it, which may remove the overcentralisation and solve the issue.

I'm kind of confused by your response to me as it seems to say things that I myself previously said :\.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Stop making up excuses that have nothing to do with anything. What does speed and coverage have to do with anything. We're talking about counters to these pokemon and they are very few. Few enough that it requires every team to have 1 of only a handful of pokemon that can deal with them which is overcentralization.

Hitmontop isn't exactly super OU either. Nor is mach punch infernape these days. And kyogre was just an example. I'm sure I can come up with an Uber that has way more OU counters.

"An Uber has more counters than these mons,therefore these mons are overpowered."
What?
So many things can counter Dory and Terakion,it isn't even funny.

I never suggested everyone run Natt, and I in fact agree that you have to use some of a small group of pokes to beat Rain without running a dedicated weather. I said this in my previous posts, and mentioned that Rain itself is overcentralised by the trio too. I then offered a solution by suggesting removing the trio or part of it, which may remove the overcentralisation and solve the issue.

I'm kind of confused by your response to me as it seems to say things that I myself previously said :\.

Sorry if I confused you,lots of replies and a ton of stuff to read can make it hard to explain.
I myself just want the trio gone. Rain becomes manageable without the SS Kingdra,Ludi,and Kabu without completely destroying rain offense.

 

[Benlisted]

Sorry if I confused you,lots of replies and a ton of stuff to read can make it hard to explain.
I myself just want the trio gone. Rain becomes manageable without the SS Kingdra,Ludi,and Kabu without completely destroying rain offense.

Lmao well that explains why you said the same things, I agree that banning the abusers is the way to go. I think the way to do it would be to one by one test them (probably in the order Kingdra - Ludi - Kabutops) and stop when it is found that the problem is resolved.

 

[astrohawke]

"An Uber has more counters than these mons,therefore these mons are overpowered."
What?
So many things can counter Dory and Terakion,it isn't even funny.

Stop twisting my words. You logic was that "just carry a mach puncher and you can deal with them" to which I then responded that by that logic, Ubers aren't broken because you can "just use 1 of their OU counters and you can deal with them".

And please name 10 OU counters that can deal with both on the same team.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Stop twisting my words. You logic was that "just carry a mach puncher and you can deal with them" to which I then responded that by that logic, Ubers aren't broken because you can "just use 1 of their OU counters and you can deal with them".

And please name 10 OU counters that can deal with both on the same team.

OU? Well OU isn't defined yet,so I'll just post the most common stuff.
Breloom
Gliscor
Skarmory
Bronzong
Roobushin
Hitmontop
Balloon Terakion(running Jolly,since I assume most run Adamant because they learn Rock Polish. You can OHKO both after your own Rock Polish)
Abagoora(The Rock/Water Turtle with Aqua Jet >.>)
Jolly Doryuuzu(Most Dorys run Adamant AFAIK)
Sandslash

Btw,before you say anything. These are 10 mons that can counter both Dory and Terakion.
You asked,and I gave.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Literally none of those counter Terakion, except sort of Gliscor (Adamant +2 Life Orb Stone Edge does 79.1% - 93.2%, but after it SDs on the switch Jolly Balloon 2HKOs). Just pointing that out.

 

[JSND]

the list of counter of terra and dory is very biased.
Only gliscor can really handle both terrakion and dory but even then gliscor take a lot from + 2 Stone Edge.
Only roobushin can truly handle handle both but thats why SS has 3 more member in their team or 2(2 inducer variants) more team member. Also remember unless its Teched, most stab mach punch will not OHKo dory and terra.

The big problem in making SS is the popularity of Gliscor. Gliscor is everywhere in this meta, and have hit the meta with ridiculous thing such as decrease of roobushin ETC.
In SS, only generaly 3-4 of the team lose to gliscor(depend on set they run).
However, SS advantage and key on playing SS isnt dory. the key is what set Ttar run in Ttar variants. If you want to use sand for dory power, go away it wont be as good as rain. but if you are able to abuse Ttar's versatility, its a whole different case

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Literally none of those counter Terakion, except sort of Gliscor (Adamant +2 Life Orb Stone Edge does 79.1% - 93.2%, but after it SDs on the switch Jolly Balloon 2HKOs). Just pointing that out.

And Skarm/Bronzong doesn't?
I just gave him things that could kill both and switch in on something like a Rock Polish or something.

 

[astrohawke]

OU? Well OU isn't defined yet,so I'll just post the most common stuff.
Breloom
Gliscor
Skarmory
Bronzong
Roobushin
Hitmontop
Balloon Terakion(running Jolly,since I assume most run Adamant because they learn Rock Polish. You can OHKO both after your own Rock Polish)
Abagoora(The Rock/Water Turtle with Aqua Jet >.>)
Jolly Doryuuzu(Most Dorys run Adamant AFAIK)
Sandslash

Btw,before you say anything. These are 10 mons that can counter both Dory and Terakion.
You asked,and I gave.

Before I go through this list, I'd just like to make you aware of what a counter is. A counter is something that can switch into said pokemon and then either threaten to kill it or force it out. A revenge killer is something that comes in after something dies and is able to kill or force out said pokemon.

Breloom: Revenge killer not a counter. Even as a revenge killer it doesn't OHKO terrakion while terrakion kills with CC.

Gliscor: Does not counter terrakion. +2 SE on max/max gliscor is a 2HKO, gliscor's EQ is also a 2HKO.

Skarmory: Even worse than gliscor as BB is a 3HKO. Can whirlwind but it will lose about 75% of its HP doing so and won't be switching into it again.

Bronzong: +2 CC is a 2HKO, OHKO if using life orb. Earthquake is at best 2HKO even after -1 def from CC.

Roobushin: Mach punch does not OHKO while +2 CC does.

Hitmontop: Not OU.

Terakion: Does not counter itself.

Abagoora: Not even close to OU.

Doryuuzu: They run jolly for starters. So at best it's a speed tie with other dory. Not really a counter for terrakion either as it's not switching into CC or any type of rock polish variants. Can only revenge kill if terrakion isn't rock polish or doesn't have balloon.

Sandslash: Not OU.

The sad thing is, I asked for pokemon that could counter a team that had BOTH Terrakion and Doryuuzu in it. You have either given me revenge killers or pokemon that don't even counter terrakion by itself let alone both at the same time.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Before I go through this list, I'd just like to make you aware of what a counter is. A counter is something that can switch into said pokemon and then either threaten to kill it or force it out. A revenge killer is something that comes in after something dies and is able to kill or force out said pokemon.

Breloom: Revenge killer not a counter. Even as a revenge killer it doesn't OHKO terrakion while terrakion kills with CC.

Gliscor: Does not counter terrakion. +2 SE on max/max gliscor is a 2HKO, gliscor's EQ is also a 2HKO.

Skarmory: Even worse than gliscor as BB is a 3HKO. Can whirlwind but it will lose about 75% of its HP doing so and won't be switching into it again.

Bronzong: +2 CC is a 2HKO, OHKO if using life orb. Earthquake is at best 2HKO even after -1 def from CC.

Roobushin: Mach punch does not OHKO while +2 CC does.

Hitmontop: Not OU.

Terakion: Does not counter itself.

Abagoora: Not even close to OU.

Doryuuzu: They run jolly for starters. So at best it's a speed tie with other dory. Not really a counter for terrakion either as it's not switching into CC or any type of rock polish variants. Can only revenge kill if terrakion isn't rock polish or doesn't have balloon.

Sandslash: Not OU.

The sad thing is, I asked for pokemon that could counter a team that had BOTH Terrakion and Doryuuzu in it. You have either given me revenge killers or pokemon that don't even counter terrakion by itself let alone both at the same time.

OU isn't even defined yet.
We don't know how Sandslash or Abagoora will end up >.>
You asked for counters,and most of these can switch in on the boosting moves they definitely need to kill them.
Most can threaten.
Not exactly 10,but it's a few.

Anyway,what makes Terakion so hard to counter?
He only has 108 speed and he's not that bulky with 90/90/90 defenses and a horrible Rock typing.

Doryuuzu is a different matter,but a ton of physical walls stop him and he hates any form of priority.

You have to prepare for these threats,but rain just pushed it too far.
What IS your team? Why does your whole team have so much trouble?

 

[astrohawke]

OU isn't even defined yet.
We don't know how Sandslash or Abagoora will end up >.>
You asked for counters,and most of these can switch in on the boosting moves they definitely need to kill them.
Most can threaten.
Not exactly 10,but it's a few.

Anyway,what makes Terakion so hard to counter?
He only has 108 speed and he's not that bulky with 90/90/90 defenses and a horrible Rock typing.

Doryuuzu is a different matter,but a ton of physical walls stop him and he hates any form of priority.

You have to prepare for these threats,but rain just pushed it too far.
What IS your team? Why does your whole team have so much trouble?

Yes most of these pokemon switch in on the swords dance. Then they are 2HKOed by either stone edge or close combat while they at best can only 2HKO back.

You tell me what makes terrakion so hard to counter because it's not countered by the most popular walls in the game. It's basically the new SD luke. 90/90/90 defenses are good for any sweeper without a 4x weak. Rock typing gives it +SDef so it's very unlikely to be OHKOed by any special attack. 108 speed outspeeds a vast majority of the metagame. Access to SD, RP and 2 powerful stabs usable from a high attack stat.

Like I said, it might not sweep a team by itself but it's so hard to counter with any 1 pokemon that it will put a bunch of holes in your main physical walls. The same walls you are going to need to wall Dory who then comes in later and cleans up.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Yes most of these pokemon switch in on the swords dance. Then they are 2HKOed by either stone edge or close combat while they at best can only 2HKO back.

You tell me what makes terrakion so hard to counter because it's not countered by the most popular walls in the game. It's basically the new SD luke. 90/90/90 defenses are good for any sweeper without a 4x weak. Rock typing gives it +SDef so it's very unlikely to be OHKOed by any special attack. 108 speed outspeeds a vast majority of the metagame. Access to SD, RP and 2 powerful stabs usable from a high attack stat.

Like I said, it might not sweep a team by itself but it's so hard to counter with any 1 pokemon that it will put a bunch of holes in your main physical walls. The same walls you are going to need to wall Dory who then comes in later and cleans up.

Makes my own Terakion seem like trash >.>
Anyway,I guess you have a point.

 

[capefeather]

OK, I have a few things to say about the state of this thread.

The biggest problem that I'm seeing here is that people aren't really listening to each other. The result of this is that I come here in the morning to see seven pages of posts that have been made since I last checked Smogon right after eating dinner, and the vast majority of the posts within are repeats of the past. One reason for this is that there ARE so many posts in the first place, but if we actually listened more we wouldn't have repeated nonsense clogging the thread, which causes people to not read posts very thoroughly, which clogs the thread more. It's a vicious cycle. I'm honestly tired of seeing the same users repeat the same thing over and over again, despite what they've said being shot down in the past; it's as if they hadn't posted before and were posting something new. I'm not saying this to be a prick, but I'm generally pretty patient and "hardy" when it comes to reading the entirety of a thread and even I'm beginning to skip the longer posts.

Examples:

1. Damp Rock rain is significantly worse than Drizzle because of that extra turn of setup, for the same reason that (in Gen IV) Pokémon who outrun base 100s were typically much better than similar Pokémon who didn't. Blaziken wasn't just "harder to use" than Infernape; it was just outright terrible in comparison because it couldn't outrun key threats. Dragonite wasn't just "harder to use" than Salamence; it was outright worse. It's that window of opportunity for the opponent to exploit that makes this happen. I seriously don't want to read about this anymore.

2. Banning Drizzle and then banning only Doryuuzu/Landlos isn't a double standard. The fatal assumption being made here is that Sand Throw and Swift Swim (and Chlorophyll) give the same boost, therefore they are the same. But they're not. The input is just as important as, if not more important than, the output. (Going to Gen IV again) If Garchomp got OHKOed by Stealth Rock, it would be a far, far worse Pokémon, not even close to Uber, despite carrying all of the same 100-speed-outrunning, Bronzong-2HKOing awesomeness. (This applies to the previous argument, too, btw.) Now, admittedly that is an extreme example, and I'd agree that extreme analogies like this are contributing to the cancerous growth of empty posts, but I just had to give one because it illustrates clearly the fact that abilities do not make sense by themselves. Please, let us talk about actual Pokémon instead of talking about gameplay aspects in a vacuum... because I don't want to see any more repeat posts about this, either.

Feel free to quote both of these because seriously, I think that this post is going to be ignored again, and I honestly don't blame anyone for doing so.
---
Post length is also getting out of hand. I used to engage in these quote-reply arguments on GameFAQs all the time. Inevitably, these posts grow as we find more stuff to pick on and more stuff to clarify, until people are posting five posts at a time, circumventing the post limit. Sometimes it helps to look back and think, "What is the real meat of what I'm talking about? Do I really need to say this? Is there a more efficient way to say what I want than just replying to a bunch of quotes? Do I even need to quote the entire post, if any of it at all?" This is for the sake not just of everyone reading it (especially your opponents who want a clear response more than a long one) but of yourself as well. If it can't be posted in one post on GameFAQs, it's probably too long. I know that I'm being a hypocrite in this post in a lot of ways, but I felt that all this had to be said. (I know, it's an equally hypocritical and lame excuse, but... come on, the point is there.)

I'd also like to add that I'm kind of appalled at the comparisons between this metagame and Ubers. Just because weather is prominent in it, it's similar? The thing is, Ubers are typically much better equipped to handle Swift Swimmers and the like. This is seen in Kingdra being the only really notable "rain abuser" (other Pokémon have different primary roles), while others are barely viable at all. Ubers is very different from this metagame, and the dominance of weather is not going to change that.

 

[fugibo]

in other news, suicune continues to be a favorite bulky water and entei continues to be the joke of legendaries

some pokemon are better. those pokemon also tend to get used a hell of a lot more than, say, butterfree or golem. it just so happens that this gen introduced some really good ones that happen to be especially popular.

 

[Onetwobanana]

Bronzong: +2 CC is a 2HKO, OHKO if using life orb. Earthquake is at best 2HKO even after -1 def from CC.

Run a calc for this:

Bronzong @ Macho Brace
252 Atk
Brave
0 Speed IV
-Gyro Ball

vs. Terakion. I suspect it is extremely close to an OHKO. I'd hazard that it's probably a 2-3HKO on Dory in the sand, probably a 2HKO if you use Gyro Ball then EQ.

Edit: The reason I ask is because running a calc for Bronzong's EQ is all well and good, but Gyro Ball is more often than not a stronger attack on Bronzong than EQ, so it's hardly fair to say Bronzong isn't a check/counter when you don't even check his strongest attack.

 

[astrohawke]

Run a calc for this:

Bronzong @ Macho Brace
252 Atk
Brave
0 Speed IV
-Gyro Ball

vs. Terakion. I suspect it is extremely close to an OHKO. I'd hazard that it's probably a 2-3HKO on Dory in the sand, probably a 2HKO if you use Gyro Ball then EQ.

Edit: The reason I ask is because running a calc for Bronzong's EQ is all well and good, but Gyro Ball is more often than not a stronger attack on Bronzong than EQ, so it's hardly fair to say Bronzong isn't a check/counter when you don't even check his strongest attack.

It doesn't really change the fact that LO +2 Terrakion still OHKOs you with CC when you're max/max. If you're 252/0 because you invested your EVs into attack, then it OHKOs you even without LO.

 

[Benlisted]

Run a calc for this:

Bronzong @ Macho Brace
252 Atk
Brave
0 Speed IV
-Gyro Ball

vs. Terakion. I suspect it is extremely close to an OHKO. I'd hazard that it's probably a 2-3HKO on Dory in the sand, probably a 2HKO if you use Gyro Ball then EQ.

Bronzong (252 EVs, +Nature) Gyro Ball vs Terakion (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 117.6 ~ 139.3%

That's assuming a no defensive investment Terakion of course, and Max Spe Adamant. However you don't need Macho Brace, and can use Lefties, giving Zong some defensive utility.

Terakion (252 EVs, +Nature, +2) Stone Edge vs Bronzong (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 46.1 ~ 54.7%

That's how much an Adamant +2 Tera does back, so it's a safe counter, excluding crits and that SE is the best attack it has VS you.

Bronzong (252 EVs, +Nature) Gyro Ball vs Doryuuzu (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 69.2 ~ 81.7%

Against Jolly Dory Zong gets a clean 2HKO, but due to the damage Dory can do back once boosted:

Doryuuzu (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) X-Scissor vs Bronzong (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 46.7 ~ 55.3%

You'll need to refine the set if you want to be able to beat Dory for sure. Better Def/HP investment or less Atk should do the trick.

EDIT: Damn, completely forgot about items and CC... disregard all that.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Bronzong (252 EVs, +Nature) Gyro Ball vs Terakion (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 117.6 ~ 139.3%

That's assuming a no defensive investment Terakion of course, and Max Spe Adamant. However you don't need Macho Brace, and can use Lefties, giving Zong some defensive utility.

Terakion (252 EVs, +Nature, +2) Stone Edge vs Bronzong (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 46.1 ~ 54.7%

That's how much an Adamant +2 Tera does back, so it's a safe counter, excluding crits and that SE is the best attack it has VS you.

Bronzong (252 EVs, +Nature) Gyro Ball vs Doryuuzu (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 69.2 ~ 81.7%

Against Jolly Dory Zong gets a clean 2HKO, but due to the damage Dory can do back once boosted:

Doryuuzu (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +2) X-Scissor vs Bronzong (252/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 46.7 ~ 55.3%

You'll need to refine the set if you want to be able to beat Dory for sure. Better Def/HP investment or less Atk should do the trick.

Damn, completely forgot about items and CC... disregard all that.

Ya....+2 Terakion will always OHKO Bronzong with CC with LO.

 

[Teh_Mysterious_Egg]

in other news, suicune continues to be a favorite bulky water and entei continues to be the joke of legendaries

some pokemon are better. those pokemon also tend to get used a hell of a lot more than, say, butterfree or golem. it just so happens that this gen introduced some really good ones that happen to be especially popular.

Dude, what are you smoking?
A, Brungkeru is far more common, and B, you ripped off Regigigas' title.
And I have no clue what your second paragraph is even talking about...

 

[Raikaria]

Dude, what are you smoking?
A, Brungkeru is far more common, and B, you ripped off Regigigas' title.
And I have no clue what your second paragraph is even talking about...

I think he's attempting to say that the pokemon that are centralising the metagame almost as much as when Garchomp was around in Gen 4, aren't broken, they're just used so much because they're better.

The question is, where do you draw the line between broken and better?

Anyway, on the topic of Terakion, while it's an absolute beast if it sets up, that's the issue. Setting up. Terakion has a cubic buttload of weaknesses, there's very little which it can switch in safe on, or set up safe on, especially in this metagame, which is dominated by Water types, and Ground-types.

Seriously, Terakion is weak to:
Water, Grass, Fighting, Steel, Ground and Psychic. 6 weaknesses, that's almost as bad as Celebi.

Then, bear in mind, what are the most common types of attacks being thrown around right now?

Water, Fighting, and Ground.

Grass is mildly common due to Sun teams and Nattorei [As if Nattorei would stay in on Terakion... but Terakion can't switch in]. Psychic is being used more often, due to the general lack of Steels and Darks in this meta compared to Gen 4. [I'm seeing Psychic types actually use their Psychic STABS! BLASTHEMY!] Bear in mind, said Psychics are Latios and Ranku, which are both somewhat common, and hit very hard with said STABS, more than enough to OHKO Terakion.

But it dosen't stop there, no. Look at what Terakion resists:
Bug, Dark, Rock, Fire, Normal, Poision

6 Resistaces, not bad. Until you realise that the only two of those types which is used even semi-frequently is Fire ad Rock, and even then, with all the Rain and Tyranitar running around, Fire is not *that* common right now. I dare you to find a Poision-type attack in the current metagame, that isn't Toxic/Toxic Spikes.

Terakion is good. Unfortunetly, the metagame... kinda spits at it's Rock/Fighting typing, and makes it difficult for Terakion to actually get in and set up.

 

[DahliaSky]

Wow, what happened while I was gone...

realize something, you don't argue the viability of a counter at +2. You have to assume that as soon as the opponent switches in tek/dory the player switches in their counter, as is how everything else is determined. Therefore it is not a good way to compare a counter to require that a pokemon take two +2 attacks.

Look at counters only at +0, or a single +2 because they would boost on the switch. If there is a way they are switching in with +2 for no turn use, then go ahead and use it.

Also, thank you Capefeather for the one post in a long time that was actually well thought out and clarifying. I really appreciate the distinction you made on point number 2. Different strategies/sweepers cannot be compared to each other. You can run them through the same test to determine if it's broken by that test's standards, but you cannot require holding it to the same standards to make it "fair."