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The next suspect in UU is Alakazam. Since it dropped, Alakazam has been a metagame defining force thanks to the combination of high special attack, speed, fantastic coverage and Magic Guard. Mediocre bulk and Pursuit weakness keep it relatively manageable, but as soon as Alakazam manages to get in play, it threatens virtually the entire tier.
Alakazam will not be allowed during this test.
The suspect test will have an N value of 20 and a COIL requirement of 2650. It will last 2 weeks from the date this thread is posted.
You can calculate the number of games required using this formula:
From my prior experience, most of the Alakazams that I've dealt with were SashZams (undoubtedly the easiest to beat). The potentially broken aspect of Alakazam is the unpredictability of its LO set. From an offensive standpoint, it's already very hard to RK from an offensive perspective and mostly hard to defensively check. Its two best Defensive answers, Sableye and Mandibuzz, are still shaky switch-ins because they have to eat a Dazzling Gleam before doing anything to Zam (even worse if Zam predicts the switch). However, some teams can afford to run things that are hard checks to it (i.e. Escavalier). If it ended there, I wouldn't necessarily say that it would be terribly broken, though a smidge unhealthy.
The real issue is its myriad of support options that further excel its strong matchups against offensive and defensive playstyles and screw over various playstyles. On the standard LO set, the last slot is relatively free, which means that Zam could run anything: Energy Ball, Dazzling Gleam, Thunder Wave, Encore, Taunt, Calm Mind, etc. The sheer number of effective options makes Zam extremely hard to prepare for regardless of playstyle. Thunder Wave hurts offensive teams a lot while Taunt more or less shuts down a lot of common walls in the UnderUsed tiers (not to also mention that it fundamentally allows Zam to theoretically beat the standard Special wall, Blissey). And Encore is Encore.
In the end, my initial impression is that Alakazam constricts team-building across various playstyles. However, I still have to ladder some more in order for me to see any significant positive changes develop with the absence of Alakazam.
It's about time.
What makes Alakazam such a threat is its versatility which allows it to threaten defensive and offensive builds. The vast movepool options available to zam allow it to hit almost every relevant Pokemon in the tier. While zam suffers from "four moveslot syndrome" you're basically playing 50 50's with any switch in based on Zam's coverage or weakening your team and responses by extensive scouting.
Specifically against offense: Zam's magic guard allows it to effectively utilize a focus sash to guarantee its ability to take a hit, and outspeeds the vast majority of the tier. Zam is able to easily pick off the slower offensive threats in the tier. Faster threats like Mega Aeroadactyl can knock zam down to its sash in exchange for taking potential paralysis via thunderwave and heavy damage. Alakazam also has options like sub to dodge sucker punches.
Against defensive teams: This is arguably where alakazam is the most difficult to face. With LO it can beat Blissey with psyshock (no need to run focus blast), can defeat physical walls with super effective coverage or by hitting focus blasts. Encore+Taunt shuts down any attempt to heal or set up calm minds, while alakazam can calm mind rather easily on a predicted switch and become unstoppable. While many would consider a strong stall breaker a "positive tier influence" I believe its unhealthy. Yes, sometimes you'll get lucky and face a zam without the right coverage but in most cases it will be able to severely pressure your entire team. I don't believe there are any viable hard checks which means you must teambuild to face a variety of zam checks or play very aggressively to defeat it.
It's a hard call on whether I want it banned. Bulky offensive teams can deal with it pretty well, but as others have mentioned, it's versatility is what really gets to me. Strong specially defensive pokemon like Blissey and Goodra (underrated imo) can deal with it pretty well, but psyshock is a thing. Strong physical attackers can eat a hit and KO it back, but once again, there's so few pokemon that can really wall it depending on the coverage. Specially defensive Cress, Gyarados and Florges seem to be pretty good answers. Even then, encore and taunt can be a nuisance. I've not yet laddered too far, but I'm currently leaning towards a ban due to it's sheer versatility and relative lack of checks and counters.
Alakazam's role is based on its speed and power, but it isn't powerful enough to justify its rather lacking speed tier. Alakazam hits 372 at max Timid, and 339 at max Modest. Both numbers are problematic, as the major speed numbers for fast , dangerous Pokemon in UU are 328, 346, 389, 394, 427 and 438. Alakazam's base role, the biggest reason to use it, is as a highly threatening revenge killer. Alakazam makes Pokemon that are generally considered glass cannons, like Porygon-z and Azelf, seem bulky by comparison so it is only likely to come in after a kill, on a double switch, or using U-turn or Baton Pass . On a team that isn't heavy offense, it's defensive role would be to protect against a sweep by unusual fast Pokemon, while offensively you would expect it to do reasonable damage each time it comes in. Where Alakazam falls short is that UU has a bunch of revenge killers that are faster than Alakazam, including Mega Aero, Mega Bee and Mega Sceptile. All three of these will force Alakazam out, and it is hard for anything short of heavy offense to carry two Pokemon that can't switch directly into anything.
Alakazam's speed problem is really noticeable in that even with Life Orb, Timid struggles to get KOs against bulky Pokemon, while failure to KO means death. This would suggest using Modest (which is really strong and probably better overall), but this means you can no longer threaten Cobalion, Galvatula, Infernape or Virizion, exactly the role you would want Alakazam to fill.
Alakazam's shortcomings are magnified when you consider is utter nemesis, Mega Aerodactyl, the best Pokemon in UU. Mega Aero means utter death for Alakazam, since it 2HKOs it with Pursuit even if it stays in, while Alakazam can't OHKO it in return. Mega Aero limits the threat of Mega Bee, Mega Sceptile, Crobat, etc. while Alakazam loses to each. The non-Mega revenge killers, Scarf Hydreigon, Darmanitan, Salamence, etc. have in common that they are all faster than Mega Aero. This is not accidental.
As others have mentioned, Alakazam has a large movepool, but in practice its coverage is a limiting factor, since you need Shadow Ball to hit bulky Psychics and Bronzong, while you need either Dazzling Gleam or Focus Blast (ugh) to keep out Scarf Hydreigon. Even with all of these moves, your prediction must be consistently right to keep faster threats like Crobat and Scarf Hydreigon from coming in. Thunder Wave helps that, but Thunder Wave is also a risky move for such a frail Pokemon to actually use, since it relies on killing things to not get hit.
Alakazam is an inferior revenge killer, is easily revenge killed itself--especially by the much better Mega Aerodactyl--and it does not get enough KOs to justify giving little to its team defensively. While Alakazam does reasonably well against stall and is ideal for heavy offense, it is good-not-great, and definitely not overpowered in UU.
Alakazam's speed problem is really noticeable in that even with Life Orb, Timid struggles to get KOs against bulky Pokemon, while failure to KO means death. This would suggest using Modest (which is really strong and probably better overall), but this means you can no longer threaten Cobalion, Galvatula, Infernape or Virizion, exactly the role you would want Alakazam to fill.
Then why say to use Modest in the first place? You promptly give us good enough reasons to use Timid by listing out what he'd miss by using Modest but never did say what he'd gain from obtaining more power, not even elaborating by giving us calcs or notable KOs on certain pokemon at least. Timid on Zam let's him beat an important lot of pokemon
I also disagree with the need of power on Zam when he can easily use Life Orb due to Magic Guard anyway. It doesn't even have trouble with OHKO's on most the pokemon listed above. There's probably some calcs out there on some certain and I'd be happy to see anything that comes across that you'd like to share with us but as of now I don't see anything notable on Modest Alakazam
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 458-541 (141.3 - 166.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Absol: 351-413 (129.5 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Sucker + Pursuit mind games are a bitch to deal with but I still wouldn't let Alakazam in when there's potential pursuit trappers in play anyway
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Azelf: 346-408 (118.9 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO sashed most of the time but as it was stated in the above statements, it works best as a revenge killer
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heliolisk: 296-348 (111.6 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 463-549 (158 - 187.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Virizion: 455-538 (140.8 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sharpedo: 333-393 (118.5 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
reachzero said:
As others have mentioned, Alakazam has a large movepool, but in practice its coverage is a limiting factor, since you need Shadow Ball to hit bulky Psychics and Bronzong, while you need either Dazzling Gleam or Focus Blast (ugh) to keep out Scarf Hydreigon.
Funny thing is they all fit into one moveslot, twave is generally only accepted on Sash variants anyway
EDIT: What's even funnier is that all those calcs are still relevant with the 80 Defense 4 HP Alakazam set, taking away from its evs from its Special Attack, which allow it to live exactly one Extreme Speed from Entei or one Shadow Sneak from Doublade. This here makes me further inclined to believe that Alakazam already has such strong natural base special attack that it doesn't even need a modest nature to deal with threats that it needs to defeat
First of all, it's important to clear a misconception some people (I'd use most over some here, but it's likely that a lot of players have already figured this out) might have regarding this suspect test. Yes, Alakazam is nowhere near as broken as some things that this tier has suspected in the past. Well, it even used to be one of this tier's staple Pokemon before OU took it last time around, and I would've preferred it if either Hydreigon or Salamence got suspected first, but that's besides the point I'm trying to make here.
The truth is that many players are having a rough time adapting to the threats that have dropped in the past couple of months. The UU metagame played before and during last Grand Slam was, as you probably know, pretty healthy overall. Then Crawdaunt was retested and people voted for it to stay. No issues there, as it's pretty clear that most teams can deal with it one way or another without having to worry about carrying dedicated answers. Gyarados is pretty much on the same boat, although the added speed and defensive utility made handling it slightly trickier. Alakazam, however, is on a different level than the aforementioned Pokemon; between its Life Orb and Focus Sash sets, it can pressure pretty much every viable playstyle, and while it's true that one can slap a Pursuit Mega Aerodactyl on a team and call that an answer, what if Alakazam is running Focus Sash and Thunder Wave? There goes your check to like 10 other different threats. It's also worth noting that Life Orb Alakazam only needs 16 defense EVs to always survive a Pursuit (assuming it stays in) at full HP, which can make dealing with it a whole lot trickier. Anyway, I won't talk too much about what Alakazam can and can't do, but I stand by the opinion that banning it would be beneficial for UU in the long run. As to why this suspect test didn't take place earlier, it's mostly because the most recent drops made us realize how the tier needed to be cleaned up somehow. It's just near impossible and tedious for people who play mostly balance to cover all of Hydreigon dropping Dracos™ left and right, Salamence, Alakazam, Mamoswine, Sylveon and so on and so forth, even if none of these are particularly overpowered on their own.
tl;dr -
(life orb pushing alakazam over the edge)
(that isn't literally what i think but i still felt the need to post it rofl)
I feel there is a bit of power creep in an overall sense with Sylveon and Conk dropping, as well as celebi's amazing support options and bulk so it'd make sense for there to be a suspect of a mon, but I feel like Zam isn't really the best fit to be suspected.
Sure it's strong, but so many mons can check it in the sense that almost none are OHKOed from full and OHKO in return, ex: Mega Sceptile, Mega Aero, Specs Sylveon etc, but it's true power lies in its ability to clean weakened teams, but even then this tier is full of threats like that such as previously mentioned mega Sceptile and Aero. I guess its unique niche of not being choice-locked while still having such high speed and power, as well as no opportunity cost of being a mega, combined with potential Sash set is what makes Zam so good, but i don't think it currently deserves the boot imo. Also besides the sash set, it offers 0 defensive support in that it cant switch into anything pretty much. At least mons like Mega Scept and Aero have scald switchins and ground immunity, same with Hydreigon and etc
Please in the name of all that is holy don't use scarf Krookodile. Moxie Krookodile with Scarf might look good on paper but in practice you'd almost never get it to pursuit trap reliably with scarf against Alakazam. If I see it doesn't have intimidate when you send in your Krookodile against my Alakazam, I'd be pretty sure it'd be scarf (intimidate scarf is also poop, I don't have to explain why). Staying in against the said Krookodile would be in my favor anyway as it only has a 43ish percent to OHKO, not even factoring the set with extra bulk. Same with Scarf Chandelure if you want to use it as your Alakazam check. I'm going to switch out if I see you send it in because most of the time Chandelure loses against Zam with Shadow Ball unless you're the said set again. I'm going to promptly send in my resist Hydreigon, Florges, Snorlax, etc. There's nothing much Chandelure can do against this unless you trick your scarf to the aforementioned wall, losing it's ability to check Alakazam. I don't have much of a gripe against scarf Chandelure even if it loses out against Mega Beedrill in a woefully one point as it does fine with utility aspects outside of attacking like Memento. Back again to the croc, the purpose of the set is to send Krookodile in when the team has been considerably weakened down without revealing its set early game. Having to reveal it early to mid game once Alakazam is out just to have it attempt to pursuit trap it with a chance of it succeeding below 50% is a poor desicion itself in battling as well as teambuilding.
The purpose of this post is just to clarify and make sense of "all the many checks of Alakazam" when it reality, a smart player is able to recognize those "checks" that being Scarf Chandelure/Krookodile in this situation. I'll be able to add more stuff later on as well as the pursuit calc on Alakazam but I'm on mobile right now with less than 10% battery so I'll do it at home.
TL;DR Scarf Chandelure and Scarf Krookodile are poor answers to Alakazam no matter how you try to spin it
252 Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 228-270 (90.8 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO w/o bulk
252 Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 198-234 (78.5 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO w/ bulk
172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 333-393 (100.6 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Did something cause I was bored and didn't having anything else to do today.
Counters, Hard Checks, Soft Checks are all self-explanatory
Minor Threat is a pokemon that can pressure Alakazam at full health or if Alakazam is weakened. Certain conditions inbattle essentially
No Threat is a pokemon that doesn't give much trouble for Alakazam and is usually swept by him
ABSOL - HARD CHECK 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Absol: 351-413 (129.5 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs. 252 Atk Mega Absol Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam: 270-320 (107.5 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO or 252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam: 542-638 (215.9 - 254.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: Absol essentially plays the best mindgames against Alakazam in a one vs one situation, having access to both Sucker Punch and Pursuit as well as having an immunity towards Thunder Wave due to Magic Bounce. Mega Absol in my opinion has the best tools in dealing with most sets for Alakazam. The only way the opposing pokemon can retaliate is with at full health and a focus sash at hand. Extra bulk on Alakazam had little effect to the calcs aside from having pursuit with Alakazam staying in having a chance to live. With those in mind, all of these situations are in Mega Absol's favor.
Aerodactyl - SOFT CHECK 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 195-230 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs. 252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 271-321 (107.5 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO or 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 211-250 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO or 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 190-224 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Notes on Matchup: Utilizing the extra bulk set for Alakazam, he's able to live out now Aerial Ace and Pursuit on staying in at full health, forcing the opponent to click Stone Edge for it's confirmed OHKO. Unfortunately it carries that 80% accuracy making it frustrating when it misses. Overall this still falls under the category of being a check with all the tools that Mega Aerodactyl is given. It may also have boosts from a previous turn due to Hone Claws making this an even harder matchup for Alakazam
Aggron - HARD CHECK 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 242-287 (70.3 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs. 0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 322-381 (128.2 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: Due to Aggron having to consistently take damage every battle with no recovery other than Rest, Aggron can only hope that Focus Blast misses as it can't really take one during the end game at most times. Mega Aggron has access to Thunder Wave, a great way of crippling Alakazam but at most times it's better to eliminate the threat at hand rather than letting it live with lowered speed as it can still has a chance at hitting Focus Blast and getting through the paralysis
Ampharos - NO THREAT 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 216-255 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs. 4 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 148-175 (58.9 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO or 4 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 123-145 (49 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Notes on Matchup: Having great bulk along side it's unique typing, Mega Ampharos is able to take at least one boosted Dazzling Gleam from Alakazam and fight back by lower it's health by more than half with one of it's STAB. How the player would use Ampharos against Alakazam would be to either cleaning it up while it's still weakened or by volt switching out into a pokemon with a strong priority move. Although it can only act as a pivot most times, making it impossible for it to fight Alakazam 1v1 on it's own due to it's poor speed and lack of priority. Thunder Wave is also an option but it suffers from 4mss already making it void from this particular matchup.
Arcanine - NO THREAT 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 224-265 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs. 8 Atk Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 229-270 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO or 8 Atk Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 102-120 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Notes on Matchup: Sadly Defensive Arcanine cannot 2HKO Alakazam if he is carrying extra bulk on him and is unable to recover any of the lost HP due to it's speed tier against Zam. With this in mind Arcanine can still get Alakazam down to a reasonable amount of health, allowing it open to another priority user on the team. Arcanine also has the disadvantage on being weak to rocks and coming in healthy in general. Flare Blitz has a chance to kill but becomes to risky as the bulk tips it just enough in Alakazam's favor.
Azelf - SOFT CHECK 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Azelf: 346-408 (118.9 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs. 252 Atk Azelf Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 495-583 (197.2 - 232.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO or 252 Atk Azelf Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 384-454 (152.9 - 180.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: Only reason I'm listing Azelf as a soft check is because of sashed variants, mainly suicide leads. If the user feels more threatened by Alakazam than letting Azelf set up rocks first turn, then it can be used a soft check in desperate needs. However most of the time having rocks up will mostly be the better choice each time. Explosion can be used against Zam to keep the momentum going but Knock Off is also a decent option to consider. Flamethrower can't do much due to Alakazam's natural special bulk.
Beedrill - SOFT CHECK 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Beedrill: 447-530 (164.9 - 195.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs. 252 Atk Mega Beedrill Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 158-186 (62.6 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO or 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 548-648 (217.4 - 257.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: Switching out to avoid that U-Turn might be a good decision until the opponent decides to pursuit trap it in leaving you with a dead Alakazam. Pivoting out of the range of getting crippled by thunder wave sashed Alakazam makes Mega Beedrill a hard check against Alakazam as it's natural speed base speed allows it to creep past in both natures, Jolly and Adamant. At the highest risk, the only thing that users of Mega Beedrill would have to worry about is using other attacks outside of Alakazam if they predict a switch out. Should they fail to make the right prediction, they might find the Alakazam sashed and their Beedrill gone or crippled.
Blastoise - SOFT CHECK 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Energy Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 234-276 (67.8 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO vs. 252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 308-364 (122.7 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: Blastoise has the ability to check Alakazam if only it runs Dark Pulse in its set. Hydro Pump and every other move can't OHKO at full health unfortunately as it hits 99.6% of Alakazam's health without any bulk as well. Psychic can reliably 2HKO as well but Energy Ball has the best damage output overall against Blastoise
Bissey - NO THREAT 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 317-374 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery vs. Blissey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Alakazam: 100-100 (39.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Notes on Matchup: It's free set up bait essentially, seismic tossing or wish passing would be the best option here in order to at least have form of retaliation against CM Alakazam. Thunder Wave is an option once again but it already suffers from 4mss to carry any other moves suitable for Blissey. Wish passing with something that can take a Psyshock from Alakazam could potentially force him out if you can get your prediction just right.
Celebi - HARD CHECK 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Celebi: 174-205 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
vs. =0- Atk Celebi U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 170-200 (67.7 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO or 0 SpA Celebi Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 147-174 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Notes on Matchup: Access to recover and thunder wave make Celebi a great canidate as a hard check against Alakazam. The only thing that would really set this off would be the unfortunate shadow ball special defensive drop, making it a confirmed 2HKO against Celebi. U-Turn allows it to switch into something else that could pick off Alakazam or Pursuit trap it when it's weakened. Thunder Wave allows Celebi to get recover off first before Alakazam can fight back.
Chandelure - NO THREAT 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 255-302 (97.7 - 115.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO vs. 252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 296-350 (117.9 - 139.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: On the confirmation that Chandelure isn't scarfed at all, Alakazam should be more likely to take this matchup in his favor with a high chance of OHKOing. With the added bonus of potential rocks damage, Alakazam is able to safely face Chandelure with ease.
Chesnaught - NO THREAT 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 471-556 (123.9 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO vs. 0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 220-261 (87.3 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO Notes on Matchup: Flip flopping from Psychic and Psyshock, I chose the physically defensive set from Chesnaught's analysis in this matchup as I felt as if it gained more traction against the newer drops such as Conkeldurr and Gyarados as well as it being the one I find to be the most standard and common overall.
Cloyster - MINOR THREAT 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 368-434 (152.6 - 180%) -- guaranteed OHKO vs. 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam: 305-365 (121.5 - 145.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: Ice Shard's able to do a nice chunk even if it's unboosted without Shell Smash. Categorized as a MINOR THREAT, due to the fact that some run Focus Sash from time to time. Multi-hit moves can threaten Alakazam out once it gets a shell smash up being able to chip down health without triggering focus sash
Cobalion - NO THREAT 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 434-512 (133.9 - 158%) -- guaranteed OHKO vs. 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 165-195 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Notes on Matchup: Psychic can nearly take it on when its weakened but Focus Blast is able to OHKO it from max health. Should it miss the first time, Iron Head doesn't do enough to OHKO Alakazam so should that be the case you get 2 tries with Focus Blast turning it into a 9% chance of missing both of them entirely
Conkeldurr - NO THREAT 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 48 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 530-624 (146 - 171.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO vs. 252+ Atk Life Orb Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 79-94 (31.3 - 37.3%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO
Notes on Matchup: Psyshock does the same but isn't a confirmed OHKO with the extra bulk on Alakazam. Still in your favor though with a 93.8% chance of OHKOing
Crawdaunt - MINOR THREAT 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 356-421 (132.8 - 157%) -- guaranteed OHKO vs. 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 190-226 (75.3 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Notes on Matchup: With Dazzling Gleam in Alakazam's assets, he's able to OHKO certain dark types without the need for Focus Blast which has a habit of missing time to time. Aqua Jet with Adamant and Life Orb isn't enough to cleanly OHKO but with the chance of it holding choice band, users of Alakazam can't be too careless.
Cresselia - HARD CHECK 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cresselia: 187-221 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery or 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. +1 240 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 125-148 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 95.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs. Cresselia Thunder Wave vs. Alakazam: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- nice move or +1 0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 95-112 (37.8 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Notes on Matchup: Calm Mind as well as the defensive set of Cresselia with Thunder Wave make it difficult to get through especially with Moonlight. Alakazam nor cannot engage in a CM war as both pokemon have access to Psyshock and Alakazam being the frailer one between the two of them.
Crobat - SOFT CHECK 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 447-530 (119.8 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs. 0 Atk Sky Plate Crobat Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 229-270 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO or 0 Atk Crobat U-turn vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 148-176 (58.7 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Notes on Matchup: Chances of it still below 50% with even the added power of Sky Plate makes Brave Bird a risky move is Alakazam is still at full health. Using U-Turn however makes it easier for Crobat to come in a second time to finish off the job.
Darmanitan - SOFT CHECK 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 316-372 (90 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
vs. 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam: 501-589 (199.6 - 234.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO or 252 Atk Darmanitan U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam: 300-354 (119.5 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: Similar to Beedrill, U-Turn is a confirmed OHKO on Alakazam making it the best play out of all his moveset.
Donphan - SOFT CHECK 252+ Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 410-484 (163.3 - 192.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO or 252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 85-101 (33.8 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO vs. 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Energy Ball vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 398-468 (109.3 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Notes on Matchup: AV is fairly difficult to handle but not really that common on Donphan. Sturdy allows it to have the same ability as a pokemon with focus sash would and allows it to beat most sets of Alakazam as it can run Ice Shard as well if it's at max health.
Doublade - SOFT CHECK 172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 252-299 (78.9 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO vs. 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 80 Def Alakazam: 206-246 (81.7 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Notes on Matchup: At first it seems like that Doublade wins single-handly due to Shadow Sneak itself but in reality Doublade's constantly being used to wall other pokemon, so the though of him coming in healthy mid to late game is sort of unrealistic. The extra bulk allows Alakazam to live at least one Shadow Sneak and gives him an opportunity to strike back
I'll add the rest of the UU tier later. Probably add some cores and teams as well. This post will stay relatively neutral on the suspect and rather clear up some inconsistencies when I see people discussing Alakazam's counters and checks. Just posting it because I don't feel like continuing right now and my computer has some weird issues with saving drafts and all.
EDIT: There's bound to be mistakes so just PM if you find anything else that looks fishy. I don't wanna be clogging up the thread.
There's an actual Check and Counter list for Alakazam if anyone wants to actually go and check it out
As for the whole list of Matchups for Alakazam I don't think I'm real motivated to finish the rest. I'll just leave my post up just for the sake of have something up as an extra resource.
Alright so I've been playing a lot of games cause I'm sick and have been sick since Sunday (the gods way of punishment for my activity win, I guess). As a result of playing these games I have made my decision regarding my stance on Zam.
Banning Alakazam will have no notable impact in regards to our current "problem" of the meta shifting away from less offensive playing styles. What I mean by "problem" is that there's no singular Pokemon that is outright broken in this tier; it's the combination of powerful threats that almost make you rely on everything rank A- and higher, for anything else simply is outperformed (not a universal statement, but a fairly accurate one in day-to-day teambuilding). However, I don't think that Zam needs to take the fall here, for this problem began, as Pearl mentioned, when suspect after suspect, drop after drop, more and more powerful things were entering the tier. Alakazam could be considered the straw that broke the camel's back, but the camel has been sitting in the shade with its back broken since early 2016.
So how do we go about fixing this? Well, I think it's more about creativity than limiting playstyles over over-centralization. I'm probably not the go-to expert on teambuilding in this tier, but I've allowed myself to enjoy some creative builds for the sole purpose of building around this bulky offensive meta (and no, I'm not just talking about Trick Flame Orb Rotom u_u). While this may not be the most appropriate answer for a suspect test (see my post on Mega Pidgeot), it's the answer that I think is the most adequate given the stage of the meta.
For me, banning Zam isn't an option since, objectively, it is not a singular problem, and acting on the "problem" impulse would do a disservice to this tier as a whole, for then we could apply this logic to almost half of the S/A+ Rank mons. Instead, I implore you all to build shit that will defeat the current mindset of "Offense can do no wrong" and let Zam live to see its day into Gen 7. Some of you may disagree, and that's ok, for I think this suspect has much more to do with how you want gen 6 to finalize itself, and we should all have a say in that as long as we do our due diligence. I may have more concrete thoughts on this as the suspects nears its end. I also recognize that my opinions on the "problem" this meta faces is not a universal opinion.
Disclaimer: do yourself a favour and picture Sam's face when I talk about the camel in the shade.
edit: Some people think I'm trying to insult the pro-ban side by talking about creativity. That's not the point I was trying to make. There are tons of creative and great players that want Zam banned and I'm in no way trying to suggest otherwise. The point I'm making has to do with the levels of compromise we can allow ourselves at this stage of the meta, and the things we can do to spruce up this tier's offense problem as a whole since I personally believe that Zam is not the beginning nor the end of this discussion. You're all great, sorry for any misinterpretation, it was not my intention to bash anyone.
Now, before people go crazy and talk shit about me, I'm going to say that I understand why people would say Alakazam is broken in UU. 135 Special Attack and 120 Speed are very threatening; I can't really disagree with that. On top of that, Magic Guard allows Alakazam to have either entry hazard immunity and burn/Toxic immunity for Sash variants, and recoil-less Life Orb for extra power, as if 135 base Special Attack and amazing coverage wasn't enough. But have you considered Alakazam's weaknesses? Psychic types are very shitty defensively, and to make matters worse, Alakazam does have some shitty bulk (maybe not Sp. Def, but you get the point.) Alakazam isn't counterless, there are some Pokemon in UU that can counter it. Mandibuzz is one example (do people even use Mandibuzz?) if Alakazam isn't running HP Ice, which even then, I think Mandibuzz can live an HP Ice. Psyshock has no chance of OKHOing Blissey, here's a calc I did to prove my point: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 400-472 (61.3 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Not even Choice Specs Alakazam can OKHO the standard Blissey with Psyshock. Blissey can then cripple Alakazam with Thunder Wave (at least I use Thunder Wave on Blissey), rendering the Psi Pokemon useless.
You probably may be disaregarding my point right now. But my point needs to get across. My point, if you haven't figured it out already, is that Alakazam isn't really that broken. Case closed, I'm out.
I think people need to understand that it is ok to be weak to a certain threat as long as it just doesn't lead and proceed to kill everything. People try to make teams that can cover everything which i don't think you can do with six pokemon that can carry one item and four moves only. If you can cover majority of the common threats you should be fine. Sometimes i make teams in which i can keep all the S and A rank pokemon under control but someone brings a random lower tier mon which i did not prepare for due to getting little to no usage it proves to be a threat to me ends up beating me if not comes close to it. It can happen to any of us. Does this make us bad players or our team bad? Should we quit playing or thrash that team? No, we were doing well so far. This may sound dickish to some of you but notice that i have used past continuous tense there. This game is all about putting a good performance throughout the time you play. You cannot expect to do well every single time. That is just foolish. Why do you think that all the important individual tours such as grand slam, olt etc. are played by BO3 rules or even BO5 in later stages? Even team tournaments such as spl are technically similar to this. Yes, each player plays one game but each team plays seven eight games. This decreases your chances of getting eliminated early due to hax or team match up to minimum. It is impossible to determine who is the better player in one match. You have to compare their performances. Which is why the real question is how many times you end up making a team weak to the same threat? If 4 out of 5 (numbers are used as an example don't focus on them too much) teams of mine are weak to the same threat despite all those teams utilize different playstyles and/or pokemon there is a problem. However, if my teams were lacking variety and were slightly different versions of each other i deserve to get punished. The fact that there are too many threats that you need to prepare for is imo a good thing. It encourages people to step their building skills up while punishing the others who refuses to evolve and keep using the same old shit. (see John Cena who uses the same five moves and gets 50/50 crowd reaction) When a new threat gets introduced first thing i do is to check my old teams to see how many of them are weak to it and if i can fix that weakness with slight changes. If most of my teams has become weak to it and i need to change too many things to fix it, i start building new teams. Finally, if the new teams i make ends up being too weak to the same threat unless i decide to be weak to lots of other things in exchange of not being weak to the new threat, i come to the conclusion that it is broken. I haven't made my mind about Alakazam yet. Was waiting the ladder to get stabilized before i start playing. But this is how i would make my decision if zam was allowed. But now i need to stick to my prior knowledge which is gonna be hard as i was not too active lately. I'm even considering to not vote for that very reason. Can we have a ladder where suspected pokemon allowed next time you start a suspect test if you do one?
Now, before people go crazy and talk shit about me, I'm going to say that I understand why people would say Alakazam is broken in UU. 135 Special Attack and 120 Speed are very threatening; I can't really disagree with that. On top of that, Magic Guard allows Alakazam to have either entry hazard immunity and burn/Toxic immunity for Sash variants, and recoil-less Life Orb for extra power, as if 135 base Special Attack and amazing coverage wasn't enough. But have you considered Alakazam's weaknesses? Psychic types are very shitty defensively, and to make matters worse, Alakazam does have some shitty bulk (maybe not Sp. Def, but you get the point.) Alakazam isn't counterless, there are some Pokemon in UU that can counter it. Mandibuzz is one example (do people even use Mandibuzz?) if Alakazam isn't running HP Ice, which even then, I think Mandibuzz can live an HP Ice. Psyshock has no chance of OKHOing Blissey, here's a calc I did to prove my point: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 400-472 (61.3 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Not even Choice Specs Alakazam can OKHO the standard Blissey with Psyshock. Blissey can then cripple Alakazam with Thunder Wave (at least I use Thunder Wave on Blissey), rendering the Psi Pokemon useless.
You probably may be disaregarding my point right now. But my point needs to get across. My point, if you haven't figured it out already, is that Alakazam isn't really that broken. Case closed, I'm out.
So your argument is to use two mons that both get 2HKO'd on switchin by LO Zam? Because Mandi isn't going to appreciate a Gleam if it's running it over Focus Blast...
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 240 HP / 216+ SpD Mandibuzz: 179-213 (42.5 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
(this is calc spread btw, speed allows Mandi to outrun Suicune)
Honestly, I think the most annoying thing of Zam is the fact that a set designed to act more as a revenge killer(ie: Sash) is capable of acting as an extremely dangerous late game cleaner if need be, simply due to the fact it can choose when it wishes to lose the Sash. LO is a lot scarier in a offensive standpoint, but has a fair bit more counterplay thanks to things like priority/Pursuit trap/getting outsped.
As for banning Zam, I'm of a similar mind to King UU(and he put it far better than I can): Zam isn't the real problem, it's the large group of recent additions to the tier adding a fair amount of pressure. Banning Zam wouldn't really do that much.
aight I was looking to fix my post and ladder some more today but I guess I got some more posts to reply to
420legitsucks said:
Alakazam isn't counterless, there are some Pokemon in UU that can counter it. Mandibuzz is one example (do people even use Mandibuzz?) if Alakazam isn't running HP Ice, which even then, I think Mandibuzz can live an HP Ice. Psyshock has no chance of OKHOing Blissey, here's a calc I did to prove my point: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 400-472 (61.3 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Not even Choice Specs Alakazam can OKHO the standard Blissey with Psyshock. Blissey can then cripple Alakazam with Thunder Wave (at least I use Thunder Wave on Blissey), rendering the Psi Pokemon useless.
I don't know why you'd be letting Alakazam take on a Blissey at full health anyway? You seem to not understand what the meaning of what a 'Counter' is in the first place. A counter would be something that can switch into anything the opposing pokemon can throw out and still win in a 1 v 1 situation. This is why I tried to set up a little cute post on Alakazam's matchups and what is considered a check and counter in UU. Blissey cannot switch into a Psyshock
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 317-374 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
As much as I'd love to believe it, Blissey almost never comes in healthy during Mid to Late game, which is when Alakazam should only be out btw. Having Alakazam fight too early in the battle leaves him up for more risk of losing him earlier than you should. Scouting out what he can and can't deal with should be your priority with Alakazam on a team, not to blindly attack what is currently in front of you without any information whatsoever. You also mentioned Thunder Wave on Blissey which is only found on 28% of most sets found in April. I would have used some more earlier and relevant stats but Blissey shouldn't have changed within then anyway during Conkeldurr's, Celebi's, and Sylveon's drops, Thunder Wave doesn't even completely stop Alakazam as some teams might have access to heal bell or aromatherapy to fix what your Blissey just died for.
I don't see why'd I use HP Ice on Alakazam when it can promptly use Dazzling Gleam to hit an incoming Mandibuzz, which hits more stuff anyway such as Hydreigon.
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 240 HP / 216+ SpD Mandibuzz: 179-213 (42.5 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I think people need to understand that it is ok to be weak to a certain threat as long as it just doesn't lead and proceed to kill everything. People try to make teams that can cover everything which i don't think you can do with six pokemon that can carry one item and four moves only. If you can cover majority of the common threats you should be fine. Sometimes i make teams in which i can keep all the S and A rank pokemon under control but someone brings a random lower tier mon which i did not prepare for due to getting little to no usage it proves to be a threat to me ends up beating me if not comes close to it. It can happen to any of us. Does this make us bad players or our team bad? Should we quit playing or thrash that team? No, we were doing well so far. This may sound dickish to some of you but notice that i have used past continuous tense there. This game is all about putting a good performance throughout the time you play. You cannot expect to do well every single time. That is just foolish. Why do you think that all the important individual tours such as grand slam, olt etc. are played by BO3 rules or even BO5 in later stages? Even team tournaments such as spl are technically similar to this. Yes, each player plays one game but each team plays seven eight games. This decreases your chances of getting eliminated early due to hax or team match up to minimum. It is impossible to determine who is the better player in one match. You have to compare their performances. Which is why the real question is how many times you end up making a team weak to the same threat? If 4 out of 5 (numbers are used as an example don't focus on them too much) teams of mine are weak to the same threat despite all those teams utilize different playstyles and/or pokemon there is a problem. However, if my teams were lacking variety and were slightly different versions of each other i deserve to get punished. The fact that there are too many threats that you need to prepare for is imo a good thing. It encourages people to step their building skills up while punishing the others who refuses to evolve and keep using the same old shit. (see John Cena who uses the same five moves and gets 50/50 crowd reaction) When a new threat gets introduced first thing i do is to check my old teams to see how many of them are weak to it and if i can fix that weakness with slight changes. If most of my teams has become weak to it and i need to change too many things to fix it, i start building new teams. Finally, if the new teams i make ends up being too weak to the same threat unless i decide to be weak to lots of other things in exchange of not being weak to the new threat, i come to the conclusion that it is broken. I haven't made my mind about Alakazam yet. Was waiting the ladder to get stabilized before i start playing. But this is how i would make my decision if zam was allowed. But now i need to stick to my prior knowledge which is gonna be hard as i was not too active lately. I'm even considering to not vote for that very reason. Can we have a ladder where suspected pokemon allowed next time you start a suspect test if you do one?
I can't seem to find anything that tries to justifies Alakazam's stay in UU at all. I'm mean sure it's a great post on players adapting to the new meta and all but I don't see any substance that I can go off of that tells me how Alakazam currently does in the metagame and where he fits in this post. It's unfortunate you didn't get much experience with Alakazam previously before the ladder I do believe that it does hinder the judgement of others who are still unsure of what to vote for but I can't honestly go along with your post as it's more general threats in UU than actual facts and statements on how Alakazam affects teambuilding, battling, etc. Sure you can take a glance at your teams and say 'Yeah I'm prepared for this shit' but it's much different in practice when you play against a player with a smart mindset of how his team works. I've yet to see any concrete proof of how Alakazam is 'balanced' in the current meta, and I wouldn't mind if you'd post it here as I'd be able to have an actual discussion here but people are waaaay to focused and too deep into talking about "adapting" or "creativity" for me to reply to anything. They're nice posts and all but I'd like to see some more evidence and in game stats on why you believe that Alakazam isn't broken in UU right now instead of just dancing around the idea by diverging our thoughts on something else than the current suspected pokemon.
I fail to see how any of those were insults, sir rage.
Also, to make this a relevant post about Zam to not get infracted; Zam isn't healthy. We can sit and argue for days on if it's broken, and the general answer is no. But when this thing is on the field, I have to worry about it from turn one on all my teams. Even teams that have several psychic resists.
If it didn't have magic guard, I can't say it'd even be halfway broken. But that one ability makes it something I wouldn't want to keep.
King UU and Pearl both summed up this suspect's situation very well. Maybe our scope should be suspecting a potential drop from BL (which is few and far in between, but I digress). Zam undoubtedly needed to take the fall in order to better understand the UnderUsed metagame offense trend.
However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. I was reading some post in the OU Metagame Discussion thread about how balanced metagames tend to gravitate toward Bulky Offense (i.e. M-Latias BO). I don't necessarily know if the "offensive playstyles" that King UU also covers Bulky offense, but nonetheless I think the metagame is in a fine place at the moment.
Because King UU brought up the idea that there is no one single thing that could be the direct cause for UU's state at the moment, I think it warrants some form of minor discussion about releasing somethinh from BorderLine. I understand Hikari said to refrain from "should had suspected X instead of Zam" posts, so I'll try to keep this as well-substantiated as possible. Understandably, most of BL consists of Pokemon that would undoubtedly overcentralize UnderUsed to an incredible (and ridiculous) degree. However, I think that Togekiss should be a potential candidate for drops after the Alakazam test.
I decided to go back into the Tiering Archives to understand what make Togekiss broken, and a lot of the justification for its ban seemed arbitrary at best. For example, here's the first few lines to Kokoloko's justification for Togekiss' ban:
"ok yeah this is gonna seem weird because i was 100% convinced toge was broken but the more i play with/against it, the less broken it seems.
i'm kinda forced to vote BL due to my own "if unsure, vote BL" rule, but i'm really torn on it tbh."
To Nas':
"stuff" [literally the entire justifcation]
A lot of the pro-ban arguments revolved around the Nasty Plot set's ability to flinch past its checks (i.e. Mega Aggron) and kind of arbitrary arguments such as Kokoloko's and Nas'. However, outside of that, it's not very broken relative to the current metagame. For starters, the tier has gotten much faster since Togekiss was around, with many of the relevant speed tiers sitting at a minimum of 80 (Reachzero's post had an excellent list of relevant speed tiers). Furthermore, the metagame has become more offensive to the point where NP Togekiss is not as optimal of a set as its support sets (i.e. Defog or w/e it actually runs). Besides, adding another defensive Fairy type that doesn't primarily rely on its Fairy STAB to do stuff might help the metagame deal with some of the top end offensive threats (Hydreigon, Mence) and with offense in general. I know people will probably argue that Togekiss' parahax is broken, but that's left for other people to touch upon.
Again, sorry for derailing this thread's entire topic with tangential discussion on Togekiss, but i really wanted to get this out there.
I would also like to add that while I hadn't been playing much of UU for like a couple weeks prior to the Zam suspect, I did start in UU again once Sylveon and co dropped, and have been playing since, and tbh I haven't really noticed much changes between the ladder meta with and without Zam. Considering that I mostly just play on the ladder, and the new drops, it would make sense that I didn't really notice any trends with Zam gone atm. I might just have to ladder more but as of now I'm gonna go with no ban just bc it hasn't changed anything so far
