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np: ORAS UU Stage 5 - Center of the Universe
- Thread starter Sam
- Start date
- Status
Almost certainly not tomorrow; from what I can tell, regular Gyara has too high usage to quick-drop. We might get it in the next tier shift, though, unless OU usage picks up a lot this month.
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Knock Off
Sigh, this thing is coming back
Thanks to it's 3 immunities, it will be a blessing on defensive and offensive teams alike as it helps offense deal with reuniclus, Mega-Beedrill, Physical mence, Doublade, and Dactyl. And it helps defensive teams thanks to its generally passive nature. All in all, this will probably be an A-Ranked mon due to how easily it can fit on most playstyles (bar HO) and be a great defensive mon or stallbreaker.
You forgot about lass ho lol.... sigh
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Knock Off
Sigh, this thing is coming backOU ladder be bad and keep thisBeing a great stallbreaker, as well as a Reuniclus counter is nice, as well as a great check to a ton of offensive mons is interesting.
Thanks to it's 3 immunities, it will be a blessing on defensive and offensive teams alike as it helps offense deal with reuniclus, Mega-Beedrill, Physical mence, Doublade, and Dactyl. And it helps defensive teams thanks to its generally passive nature. All in all, this will probably be an A-Ranked mon due to how easily it can fit on most playstyles (bar HO) and be a great defensive mon or stallbreaker.
Based on the most recent OU usage Gyarados is at 4.7% usage in OU, and 58% mega stone usage. That puts the mega form at 2.7% usage and the non-mega form at 2.0% usage. So regular Gyarados is close enough to the threshold that quick-drop is plausible, but far more likely that it'll have to wait for the full tier shift in February. Mega Gyarados and regular Alakazam are also likely to drop in February. Plenty of new toys to play with in the meantime, though.
Sharing a new Venu set that I think could be helpful for sun teams:
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 124 Atk / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Growth
- Petal Blizzard / Power Whip
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire] /Weather Ball / Earthquake
Venusaur couldn't run mixed Chlorophyll sets last gen since Power Whip was incompatible with Chlorophyll and it had to deal with the weakish Seed Bomb, but it has Power Whip now and can also use the accurate, but fairly strong Petal Blizzard. The extra attack EVs (which 2HKO Blissey with +2 Petal Blizzard) also make Earthquake worth running to beat stuff like Goodra and Chandelure.
Weather Ball was also incompatible last gen and is now an option that's stronger than HP Fire and doesn't force it to run non-optimal EVs, but HP is probably a bit safer for the cases when the sun isn't out.
Other than the Chlorophyll sun sets, Venu seems mostly outclassed by Amoonguss defensively and Roserade offensively. Curse might be a worthwhile niche though. Toxic immunity + semi-reliable recovery seems really nice for that role.
Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Synthesis
- Petal Blizzard
- Roar / Knock Off / Earthquake
Also Zard requires Adamant to use Acrobatics. :/ Acro was distributed in a really obscure Charmander event that forced an Adamant nature.
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 124 Atk / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Growth
- Petal Blizzard / Power Whip
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire] /
Venusaur couldn't run mixed Chlorophyll sets last gen since Power Whip was incompatible with Chlorophyll and it had to deal with the weakish Seed Bomb, but it has Power Whip now and can also use the accurate, but fairly strong Petal Blizzard. The extra attack EVs (which 2HKO Blissey with +2 Petal Blizzard) also make Earthquake worth running to beat stuff like Goodra and Chandelure.
Other than the Chlorophyll sun sets, Venu seems mostly outclassed by Amoonguss defensively and Roserade offensively. Curse might be a worthwhile niche though. Toxic immunity + semi-reliable recovery seems really nice for that role.
Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Synthesis
- Petal Blizzard
- Roar / Knock Off / Earthquake
Completely blanked on Fletchinder. That Pokemon may very well outclass the DD and SD Zard sets.I find two of the Charizard sets you mentioned inferior to Fletchinder for Charizard's lack of access to Gale Wings, unfortunately. While Charizard does have coverage moves to boot, Flying attacks in themselves deal formidable damage against most Pokemon in the tier already, anyway. However, this set could dent even those who resist attacks such as the aforementioned Mega Aerodactyl:
Charizard @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch / Earthquake
- Acrobatics
It requires utmost support in clearing Stealth Rock away. Charizard won't set up Belly Drum if it switches into Stealth Rock.
Also Zard requires Adamant to use Acrobatics. :/ Acro was distributed in a really obscure Charmander event that forced an Adamant nature.
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Can Zard still use that Specs Solar Power set that kicked ass and took names last gen? A clean 2HKO on Blissey with just Fire Blast (obviously requiring sun up) is nothing to be laughed at.
New drops are out. Discuss while the council decides how to handle them.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...cember-2015-read-the-op.3557847/#post-6555217
Drops currently range from Metagross to Charizard (essentially all pre-mega evolution mons).
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...cember-2015-read-the-op.3557847/#post-6555217
Drops currently range from Metagross to Charizard (essentially all pre-mega evolution mons).
Nothing immediately looks broken, at least on paper. We have threats to cover almost any of these, but it's looking like the bulky hard-hitting mons are gonna thrive here.
Metagross is a really nice new toy that gives us another aero check, ice punch allows it to check mence (since eq is not kill), and gives us a mon with a lot of utility in uu being a solid steel type attacker and a ton of usable coverage moves that allow it to check quite a few threats.
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Garde seems like a really cool mon. I've been dying for an offensive Draco check that doesn't die to Fire blast and Garde fits the bill perfectly. A 4x fight resist is also awesome despite low physical bulk.
Her movepool is also massive. T-Wave, Will-O-Wisp, Moonblast, Calm Mind, Taunt, Moonblast, Memento, Healing Wish, Wish (outclassed by Florges though), Focus Blast, Psych Up to troll Suicune, and Destiny Bonf all seem viable.
Her movepool is also massive. T-Wave, Will-O-Wisp, Moonblast, Calm Mind, Taunt, Moonblast, Memento, Healing Wish, Wish (outclassed by Florges though), Focus Blast, Psych Up to troll Suicune, and Destiny Bonf all seem viable.
I'm just happy Sableye is back as a good spin blocker again.
But anywho, Gardevoir looks like by far the most interesting addition to UU. I really want to see if havong an offensive Fairy would affect anything drastically.
But anywho, Gardevoir looks like by far the most interesting addition to UU. I really want to see if havong an offensive Fairy would affect anything drastically.
Ive actually really been looking forward to using metagross. Really high attack and good natural bulk combined with an above average defensive typing will make it a valuable asset to offense as it can take beedrill on 1v1 and switch into aero reliably. Also could potentially help out offense weak to MSwamp rain with Shuca grass knot. Sounds really niche but on the right team you never know. Looks pretty cool for trick room and maybe a DPP-esque rocks lead but I think that would kinda waste its potential offensive presence. I could see CB working too, as it provides even more power behind its hits and give strong priority in bullet punch and could even go go trick to screw over some stuff like the new sableye or suicune. Also is gonna be nice with ice punch as a way to stop salamence from clicking outrage and sweeping. It'll be pretty solid and will probably fit nicely into A rank into if all this stuff works in practice and not just theory.
Surprised no ones mentioned it yet but mega doomer loves these drops, the two most significant ones in Metagross and Sableye in particular. It obvs roasts Metagross as long as it dances around the coverage move it's running for Steels(most likely EQ to chip at Doublade) and is probably one of the best Sableye switchins possible thanks to resisting Foul Play and being immune to Wisp. This mon was already pretty good and I can see it getting better and better, particularly in a more offensive metagame which looks likely.
I totally agree with this, and Chandelure also got a whole lot better as well.... mainly fire types in general I guess with the venusaur drop, the metagross drop, the gardevoir drop, and the sableye drop =)
I very much doubt venu will be relevant cos Chlorosaur sounds nice on paper but it's still p weak even under sun and the turn setting up sun isn't really worth the payoff you get from free turns with other sweepers(read Mence/Gatr/Slurpuff). Defensive and Offensive sets are kinda outclassed by Amoong and Rose respectively so I'm going to struggle to justify this on a squad tbh.
Garde will be ok but I think a lot of ppl are being far too quick to disregard it's p meh speed tier and awful physical bulk. Being out of the 81-90 tier that contains threats like Hera and Toxi really sucks for it and will be it's killer vs offense which I feel is going to be the playstyle to use in UU now. Not outspeeding Bee and Aero sucks dick for scarf. Scarf Healing Wish could be cute and offensive Life Orb could crush slower teams but I don't think it will be my first pick on a lot of teams.
Zard will be irrelevant, can't believe ppl are discussing this and not Manectric which at least adds another elec with decent coverage that can check other elecs better than Zapdos does, it's not much of a niche at all but it's a huge one more than fucking zard has lol.
Metagross will be tough to handle cos of the variety of sets it could potentially run, Shuca sounds really nice for Mamo / EQ Aero / phys DD Mence and is probs the best set in theory. CB or offensive in general sounds kinda meh cos it has a few hard stops with shit like Cune / Doublade / Mega Aggron running around while there's a lot of shit that outspeeds and threatens it Zapdos / Nidos / LO Mence looking at you here. I think it will see use but I see Shuca being it's most splashable set for sure. A strong Bullet Punch is actually quite nice though ngl. I just know I'm gonna get swept by Rock Polish/Agility Gross a few times too lel.
Sableye is just going to be it's usual annoying self in cockblocking sweepers, hazards and spinners and is in my eyes definitely the most significant drop. This thing will find it's way on to so many teams with the amount of stuff it can emergency check and the general utility it provides. I think we'll start seeing more Lum usage purely cos of this mon, it's just that annoying lol.
Garde will be ok but I think a lot of ppl are being far too quick to disregard it's p meh speed tier and awful physical bulk. Being out of the 81-90 tier that contains threats like Hera and Toxi really sucks for it and will be it's killer vs offense which I feel is going to be the playstyle to use in UU now. Not outspeeding Bee and Aero sucks dick for scarf. Scarf Healing Wish could be cute and offensive Life Orb could crush slower teams but I don't think it will be my first pick on a lot of teams.
Zard will be irrelevant, can't believe ppl are discussing this and not Manectric which at least adds another elec with decent coverage that can check other elecs better than Zapdos does, it's not much of a niche at all but it's a huge one more than fucking zard has lol.
Metagross will be tough to handle cos of the variety of sets it could potentially run, Shuca sounds really nice for Mamo / EQ Aero / phys DD Mence and is probs the best set in theory. CB or offensive in general sounds kinda meh cos it has a few hard stops with shit like Cune / Doublade / Mega Aggron running around while there's a lot of shit that outspeeds and threatens it Zapdos / Nidos / LO Mence looking at you here. I think it will see use but I see Shuca being it's most splashable set for sure. A strong Bullet Punch is actually quite nice though ngl. I just know I'm gonna get swept by Rock Polish/Agility Gross a few times too lel.
Sableye is just going to be it's usual annoying self in cockblocking sweepers, hazards and spinners and is in my eyes definitely the most significant drop. This thing will find it's way on to so many teams with the amount of stuff it can emergency check and the general utility it provides. I think we'll start seeing more Lum usage purely cos of this mon, it's just that annoying lol.
manectric is literally a bad jolteon and jolteons not even viable lmao
I'm really liking metagross, mainly its banded set. Mash, zen, eq, then either bp for priority, explosion to nuke, or trick for shit like cune, alo, etc. Its a really strong poke and the fact that its main stab can boost its attack makes it all the more scary to switch into. Other sets ive been meaning to try are mixed with grass knot, either lo or ebelt. Physdef pert has seen a bit of a rise in popularity as of late and this could be a sick lure to it as well as its mega counter part. This also smacks quag, and gives it a chance to 2hko if running lo (100 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 177-211 (43.8 - 52.2%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) on switch of course. I don't see rp being good though, as cool as that set is :[
Regarding gardevoir specs actually looks really cool to me. Psyshock, moonblast, focus blast absolutely dismantles every defensive team, in fact the only switch in I can think of being like, spdef metagross or something weird. I heard talk of stall breaker sets but I feel these may look good on paper but fail in practice. Gonna need to play with the mon a bit more however.
The others I don't really care about tbh, zard being unviable manec being unviable sabeleye not being my cup of tea (although its probably the most impactful drop on the tier) and venu being outclassed in like every regard lol
I'm really liking metagross, mainly its banded set. Mash, zen, eq, then either bp for priority, explosion to nuke, or trick for shit like cune, alo, etc. Its a really strong poke and the fact that its main stab can boost its attack makes it all the more scary to switch into. Other sets ive been meaning to try are mixed with grass knot, either lo or ebelt. Physdef pert has seen a bit of a rise in popularity as of late and this could be a sick lure to it as well as its mega counter part. This also smacks quag, and gives it a chance to 2hko if running lo (100 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 177-211 (43.8 - 52.2%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) on switch of course. I don't see rp being good though, as cool as that set is :[
Regarding gardevoir specs actually looks really cool to me. Psyshock, moonblast, focus blast absolutely dismantles every defensive team, in fact the only switch in I can think of being like, spdef metagross or something weird. I heard talk of stall breaker sets but I feel these may look good on paper but fail in practice. Gonna need to play with the mon a bit more however.
The others I don't really care about tbh, zard being unviable manec being unviable sabeleye not being my cup of tea (although its probably the most impactful drop on the tier) and venu being outclassed in like every regard lol
Agreeing that Charizard isn't too good. A couple of its sets do have merit, but it's a bit niche overall.
SD + Tailwind and BellyDrum Salac are simply too frail to set up twice against most teams with offensive presence. They are really good once they get going however, though I haven't managed to pull off a Belly Drum yet.
Special Tailwind seems okay, but mediocre. Moltres would probably do this better.
Sunny Day + 3 Attacks is probably its most notable set outside of Sun teams. It's a good wallbreaker, though being able to run Roost viably would be nice for it.
I actually found Scarf Charizard to be really good on my Sun team in combination with mixed Growth Venusaur and mixed Nasty Plot Infernape. Its Fire Blasts and Flamethrowers in the sun at least 2HKO most offensive resists and it can clean pretty well. I like this set.
I need to test Dragon Dance sets (the one I posted earlier was illegal because of Acrobatics) and Swords Dance + Roost (which is likely outclassed by Fletchinder). It seems that Zard is a mostly sun-exclusive mon after all. Its other sets are still fun to use though, but not worth the trouble otherwise.
As for the other drops, I've used Gardevoir and Venusaur with two different sets. Garde is really nice as an offensive Fairy and its Specs and Scarf sets are both really good. Don't have much to say on Specs...it's just really strong and...good lol. Scarf has been a really nice revenge killer and it's nice to have a good Scarf Healing Wish user in the tier again besides Shaymin since it, Jirachi and Celebi left months ago.
Venu is still really threatening on Sun. I haven't tested standard special attacker yet, but mixed Growth is really good. Heat Rock Sunny Day definitely gives it enough time to get a Growth up and put in work and it's difficult to wall. Unfortunately, Abomasnow appeared half the time so it didn't get to shine as much during my time using it. Curse Veno is a pretty solid defensive glue and seems to have decent sweeping potential. I haven't used it too much yet though. I've been using an EV spread of 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD with a Careful nature and it seems pretty good. Sets up on stuff like Florges, Mienshao, non-Ice Beam Mega Blastoise, pretty much every other bulky Water and every grass type besides Life Orb Roserade w/ HP Fire/Extrasensory.
SD + Tailwind and BellyDrum Salac are simply too frail to set up twice against most teams with offensive presence. They are really good once they get going however, though I haven't managed to pull off a Belly Drum yet.
Special Tailwind seems okay, but mediocre. Moltres would probably do this better.
Sunny Day + 3 Attacks is probably its most notable set outside of Sun teams. It's a good wallbreaker, though being able to run Roost viably would be nice for it.
I actually found Scarf Charizard to be really good on my Sun team in combination with mixed Growth Venusaur and mixed Nasty Plot Infernape. Its Fire Blasts and Flamethrowers in the sun at least 2HKO most offensive resists and it can clean pretty well. I like this set.
I need to test Dragon Dance sets (the one I posted earlier was illegal because of Acrobatics) and Swords Dance + Roost (which is likely outclassed by Fletchinder). It seems that Zard is a mostly sun-exclusive mon after all. Its other sets are still fun to use though, but not worth the trouble otherwise.
As for the other drops, I've used Gardevoir and Venusaur with two different sets. Garde is really nice as an offensive Fairy and its Specs and Scarf sets are both really good. Don't have much to say on Specs...it's just really strong and...good lol. Scarf has been a really nice revenge killer and it's nice to have a good Scarf Healing Wish user in the tier again besides Shaymin since it, Jirachi and Celebi left months ago.
Venu is still really threatening on Sun. I haven't tested standard special attacker yet, but mixed Growth is really good. Heat Rock Sunny Day definitely gives it enough time to get a Growth up and put in work and it's difficult to wall. Unfortunately, Abomasnow appeared half the time so it didn't get to shine as much during my time using it. Curse Veno is a pretty solid defensive glue and seems to have decent sweeping potential. I haven't used it too much yet though. I've been using an EV spread of 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD with a Careful nature and it seems pretty good. Sets up on stuff like Florges, Mienshao, non-Ice Beam Mega Blastoise, pretty much every other bulky Water and every grass type besides Life Orb Roserade w/ HP Fire/Extrasensory.
I've been messing around with Stall in UU right now, and with the re-addition of Sableye, the playstyle is very strong in this metagame.
I don't feel Chlorosaur will make a difference at all in UU metagame, when this mon has been available all this time
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball/HP Fire
- Sludge Bomb/Sunny Day
- Sleep Powder/Growth/Sucker Punch
Victribeel is a bit more squishy and gets worse coverage in general (EQ), Sucker Punch is a little niche it can get, but Venusaur seems superior in general. Anyways, Victrebeel was not even ranked, and I can't see a huge difference on Venusaur to improve sunny teams so much it becomes a top playstyle now.
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball/HP Fire
- Sludge Bomb/Sunny Day
- Sleep Powder/Growth/Sucker Punch
Victribeel is a bit more squishy and gets worse coverage in general (EQ), Sucker Punch is a little niche it can get, but Venusaur seems superior in general. Anyways, Victrebeel was not even ranked, and I can't see a huge difference on Venusaur to improve sunny teams so much it becomes a top playstyle now.
Weather Ball can't be run on a Chloro Venusaur. Stupid event gave it out with Overgrow.
He was talking about Victreebel
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