np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 4 - Genie in a bottle

[Dyrus]

Lando-I is the Serperior of OU. While Serperior was in the UU tier, it held back a number of blatantly Overpowered mons. If Lando-I is banned, a metric buttload of Mons will be let loose to rampage in OU. Too bad my Showdown accounts are banned for toxicity. Oh well.

 

[Slimmer]

Hi there

I feel Landorus should be banned from ORAS OU.
reasons? Well, like the OP said, it can deal (too) huge issues vs several playstyles, starting from stalls (Calm Mind, even tho it's rare and KNOCK OFF aoa), balanced (every set..) and offensive (rock polish)

with potential coverage of Earth Power/Focus Blast/Sludge Wave/Psychic/Knock Off/Hidden Power Ice/U-Turn/Rock Slide it can 2hko almost every monster in the metagame and only few stuff like Mega Latias or Cresselia (lol) can perfectly deal with it
the power of this pokemon caused the raise in OU of mons like AV Tornadus-Therian (not that much used in the past) and SDef Talonflame.. but Landorus developed the use of Rock Slide, so they can't be anymore a safe switchin

This pokèmon can deal a threatening pressure similar to MegaMawile for what regards checking/countering and teambuilding issues
I guess some people will say something like "Landorus is kinda slow for OU basis speed ties and so you can revengekill it", and well the main issue is that almost every defensive answer for Landorus can suffer punishment of its huge coverage (example: your team got Gliscor as Lando answer but enemy's Lando runs HP Ice... also, you got Tornadus-T? Rock Slide.. you got Chansey or OrbTias? Knock Off)
In shorts, there's almost always the risk that your Lando check could get killed by one of its moves (and you can't guess what Lando runs until you see this but that could be too late once your answers is killed), and the only safe way to deal with him is revengekill it (or running Mega Latias but we couldnt run MegaLatias in every team)

for these reason I believe Lando should be banned.

 

[Bedschibaer]

Lando did lose quite alot from its former glory though. What made it so ridiculously broken in gen 5 was the unpredictability, both sand force and sheer force were perfectly viable and guessing it wrong could fuck you over in many scenarios. Now there aren't any fully physical lando-is to be seen anymore, and apart from like knock off and the odd rock slide there will only be special variants to be seen. That to me did look like quite a downgrade for lando at first, i thought it actually was more easy to prepare for. I guess i just underestimated the sheer power of lando though, nothing can just rip through so many builds as easily as lando can, the ability to flat out sweep 3/4ths of most balanced builds is quite astounding and ridiculously abusable in the form of cores and lures. But then again, in the oras meta there are quite alot things that just seem so ridiculously strong, but that is just the nature of the metagame by now. If lando is "just" the best thing at the moment like mega meta was back then or if it's flat out broken isn't something i can answer yet, but it is clear that lando does have checks, that it does have hard stops depending on what coverage moves it runs and that it did lose alot of its unpredictability, despite still being one of the most unpredictable things in this meta atm.

 

[bruno]

Landorus has always been one of the mons i wanted to see banned for a long time, it has ridiculous sheer power(no pun intended) and can adapt to the metagame based on how people check it(for example running rock slide after tornadus-t got more popularity), it has insane diversity with its sets(rock polish, life orb, even u-turn is decent) and having to use Pokémon like Mega-Latias and Cresselia(arguably the only real 100% checks to it) so u don't have to suffer with people double switching their landorus back and forth and getting easy kills through prediction or "unexpected" moves(rock polish versus offensive teams, rock slide, calm mind, hp ice versus spdef gliscor, etc.) makes the metagame quite a pain to deal with. Please ban it

 

[Rayman94]

Wow I kinda knew this was coming but didn't expect it to actually happen lando I is a great mon in this current metagame especially with stall and balance being so potent on the high ladder I being a balance player myself don't find lando over centralizing to the metagame if u guys wanna get stalled to death in 200 + turn battles go ahead lano I has a decent amount of checks some people need to adapt

 

[rs]

Glad to see this mon being suspected finally in this generation. When I play OU, which is pretty uncommon, it's unbelievably hard to switch into this monster, due to it's amazing movepool/coverage, unbelievable power, and also the ability to run mixed movesets to donk its common switchins. As said above everyone could say it really restricts teambuilding as well.

I'm eager to see how this suspect will turn out and assuming I get reqs will probably vote BAN on this meta-defining monster.

 

[Tricking]

Landorus-I is an offensive presence thanks to its different sets NECESSARY in the OU tier, otherwise balanced and stall would become too much annoying.
Also it has a lot of revenge-killers and a few Pokemon that can counter it such as Cresselia, Chansey, Latias, Tornadus-T Latias-Mega and many more if you can scout its set. We could say lots of things, but from what I've seen Landorus-I is too much important. I will vote DO NOT BAN without any doubt. It doesn't force unhealthy 50/50, it fits well in Offensive teams and Balanced ones, there's no need to remove it in my opinion.
We could say lots of things to support its ban from the tier, but I think these aren't enough if you compare them with its unique movepool, stats and its characteristic niches which made it a top-tier Pokemon. It has to stay there.. for a balanced Metagame.

 

[Hootie]

It's about time. This is a Pokemon that has been ravaging all playstyles and forces offense to always carry something like Weavile, Mamoswine, or CB Azumarill or else it gets swept by Landorus after it uses Rock Polish. This thing is momentum machine that forces the opponent into a mind game of "should I switch my Latias in or should I sack something to scout for Knock Off" and other similar situations. This thing adapts to any metagame trends so easily. In XY SpDef Gliscor was the best answer to Landorus until players adapted and started running Hidden Power Ice. Assault Vest Tornadus-T is a solid switch in as well, but then players once again adapt by running Rock Slide. On balance it's disgusting that you have to sack mons multiple times throughout the match because your faster mons cannot switch in letting it tear apart balance cores all by itself. Stall barely has answers as well, because the only counters are Cress and Mega Latias which both are rather niche on these teams. Ban this genie.

 

[Baharoth]

I realy dont know about this one.

He somewhat resembles me to Mega Meta. He can 2hko basicly the whole meta with the right move but he has to predict like a god to do it most of the time. Stab EP is powerful but its also easy to take advantage of and his coverage moves are, for the most part, only suited to kill specific things. The only other spammable move is Sludge Wave. HP ice is weak against everything not 4x weak to it. Rockslide hits nothing realy aside for Tornadus and Zapdos, Focus Blast is only for Skarm (and Mandi i guess), and Knock Off only hurts the Latis/Gengar. He can hit everything with the right move but he has just 4 slots and even if he has the right move he usually needs to predict because if his check comes in he is forced out since most of them are faster and threaten to ohko.

Another thing is that he needs to specialize to be usefull against offense/stall. Without rock polish he is kinda useless against offense since almost everything on offense is faster than he is and without CM/Focusblast he wont get past spd Skarm/Chansey any time soon and cant threaten stall. He is always kinda dangerous for balance builds but they have a wide variety of checks and counters to deal with him so usually he is very manageable for them as well.

Then again it remains a fact that, in order to be realy save with a slow team, you need to have 2 or even 3 different switch ins to be save against all the move combinations he might have, otherwise you might end up getting 6-0ed. Thats a real strain on teambuilding because you cant just slap mon X on your team and call it a day. Even most of the other wallbreaking monsters have things they cant touch, Lando can break almost everything with the right set. Removing him will certainly make team building easier for the balance and bulky offense archetype but seeing how popular they are right now i dont know if thats realy needed. With all the Spd Skarms running around right now as well as all the common faster checks it doesnt realy feel like he is broken in practise but in theory he is a pretty big problem.

Right now i am leaning to vote no ban but i am curious to see how the meta ends up without him so lets see how this ends...

 

[GeeMick]

Landorus-I is one of those Pokemon that, while unbearable when it is good in the metagame, finds the metagame adapting to it. Think about when Mega Cross / Mega Garde / and Mega Medicham were everywhere after Aegislash was banned, and everybody wanted those suspected until the metagame adapted to it (the same applied to Zard X and Thundurus). However, Lando-I is better than it was in early XY, since it is much freer to use coverage than it could ever before. That being said, I do not deny the worth of this suspect, as Lando-I can be annoying to handle, especially since it can easily tinker its coverage to beat whatever it wants.

My friend you are wrong. In fact it is quite the other way around, and that's one of the reason it is suspected and might very well be banworthy in my opinion: Landorus-I adapts itself constantly to the metagame. When Gliscor checked it, it started running HP Ice. Nowadays, we see more Focus Blast and Rock Slide sets to beat the Skarmorys and Tornadus-T people use to deal with it. You won't ever be able to get a 100% counter, forcing you to making incredibly risky plays to scout the set, and a decent opponent can and will take advantage of it. Packing a Landorus swings the momentum in your favor too much for it to be healthy.

Edit: I've been seeing a few posts saying that without Lando-I in the metagame, there will be bulky balance cores that will be unbreakable. That must be a really bad joke. Don't you have enough options between the proactive breakers (Kyurem, Thundurus, Broken af Manaphy, Weavile, Serperior, Bisharp, SD Chomper, LO Torn, Zard formes, Volcarona....) and the slower breakers (Clefable, Reuniclus, Gliscor, Suicune...) ?

Seriously, how even is this an argument.

 

[bludz]

So I'm currently of the opinion that Landorus is broken and unhealthy for the metagame. We've been over it already; amazing coverage, power, decent speed and defenses with great typing and a lack of true counters.

One thing I want to address which I feel is much different from the Mega Metagross suspect is that Landorus is far more unpredictable. There was a massive debate about the fact that Metagross can't carry all of its coverage moves so it will always have some counters. This is also true of Landorus, however the difference is that it has more feasible coverage moves and setup options that make scouting it far more dangerous. In scouting, realistically you will almost certainly lose a pokemon if running offense, there's a good chance you will take a lot of damage with balance and stall will be fine unless it's Calm Mind or Knock Off + Focus Blast in which case something is going to die.

I do share a slight concern that bulkier builds will be more difficult to break, but we still have a plethora of great wallbreakers in the tier, and some underrated ones that don't get enough shine such as Nasty Plot Thundurus.

So currently I would be voting ban, however I do plan to keep an open mind while suspect laddering and keep an eye on trends which I will analyze as positive or negative for the metagame. I know the suspect ladder is only a glimpse and not a tell-all, but there are still takeaways to be gathered from it.

 

[Sun King]

Ohhhhhhh Sweet JESUS YES! Finally this thing is getting the suspect test that it needed since the Greninja ban. I'm not going to post WHY Landorus is broken purely because it's already been stated in the first page alone; we all know that it basically bops SOMETHING every time it hits the field. I'm going to post, instead, on WHY this ban (should everyone make the sensible choice to ban) is healthy for OU. By banning Landorus, we'd see a huge surge in Stall and Balance, and team building would be a lot less pressured for non HO teams.

Okay so as I said, Stall and Balance stand to benefit A LOT from this ban. Landorus has been a known "easy-button" to protect your team against essentially two major play styles ever since Generation VI came around. Every SINGLE stall team has been built with a dedicated "Lando counter". The only reason you see things like SpDef Gyarados, Cresselia, or shit--Mantine--is so that you can counter this guy. The amount of team building pressure this one mon has put on entire play styles is completely unacceptable. FINALLY--I have a place to vent my frustrations about this guy. During the Aegi ban of XY, "Aegislash puts too much team building pressure on offensive teams". Guess what--Lando does the exact same thing to ANY defensive play style. If we ban Lando, Stall and Balance would become so much better to the point where people would start taking them more seriously and pack ways to stop defensive cores. Legit the only reason people are whining "WAH but Balance cores will be unbreakable" is because they aren't willing to find ways around entire play styles.

Like I said before, the pressure on Balance and Stall teams would be greatly alleviated--meaning you can actually prepare for a crap-ton of other things. Remember how we tried unbanning Aegi to stop the "matchup problem"? Banning Landorus is another great answer to that problem because now teams have an entire other slot to prepare for a lot of those threats. Landorus held Balance and Stall back because those teams were OBLIGATED to prepare an entire slot to stop him.

Ultimately, what does a rise in Balance and Stall mean for our metagame? Not only do we have a more diverse metagame, but we have a more balanced and skilled player base. We aren't going to see people spamming something like Landorus as a "get-out-of-Stall/Balance-free-card". With fewer "easy-buttons", we'll see people adapting more to entire play styles instead of singular Pokemon. People will have to learn how to outplay defensive cores, which is something any competitive player worth their salt knows. I'm really anticipating the outcome of this suspect test.

Great job council. Finally y'all called this asshat Landorus into question.

 

[That Grammar Terrorist]

Is Landorus-Incarnate broken?

Sure. I'll give you that. It's broken as hell, depending on what coverage moves it runs, its switch ins are few, but that's not the question we should be asking ourselves here. If we banned things solely on the premise of being broken, then quite a portion of the B+ and above ranks would be gone.

Here's the real question we should be asking:

Is Landorus-Incarnate unreasonably overcentralizing/unhealthy?

I certainly don't think so. Sure it can obliterate a lot of would be checks with the appropriate coverage move, but it's base 101 speed is a tad lackluster, and if it runs rock polish, it must lose out on a moveslot for coverage.
It was said that Landorus-Incarnate was one of the reasons that quite a few things run ice coverage, but Landorus-Incarnate is only part of the reason. Mega Altaria, Landorus-Therian, Gliscor, and a few other notable threats are also weak to ice and can be hassles for offensively based teams.
It also happens to be weak to some of the more common priority that runs around here in OU, such as Feraligatr and Azumarill's Aqua Jet, Mamoswine and Weavile's (who is starting to become more relevant) ice shard.

As a result, if I don't become swamped and have enough time to get the requirements, I will vote: NO BAN

 

[Analytic]

Is Landorus-Incarnate broken?

Sure. I'll give you that. It's broken as hell, depending on what coverage moves it runs, its switch ins are few, but that's not the question we should be asking ourselves here. If we banned things solely on the premise of being broken, then quite a portion of the B+ and above ranks would be gone.

Here's the real question we should be asking:

Is Landorus-Incarnate unreasonably overcentralizing/unhealthy?

I certainly don't think so. Sure it can obliterate a lot of would be checks with the appropriate coverage move, but it's base 101 speed is a tad lackluster, and if it runs rock polish, it must lose out on a moveslot for coverage.
It was said that Landorus-Incarnate was one of the reasons that quite a few things run ice coverage, but Landorus-Incarnate is only part of the reason. Mega Altaria, Landorus-Therian, Gliscor, and a few other notable threats are also weak to ice and can be hassles for offensively based teams.
It also happens to be weak to some of the more common priority that runs around here in OU, such as Feraligatr and Azumarill's Aqua Jet, Mamoswine and Weavile's (who is starting to become more relevant) ice shard.

As a result, if I don't become swamped and have enough time to get the requirements, I will vote: NO BAN

The fact that you have to run priority to specifically to revenge it makes it overcenteralizing. It also doesn't have many counters, making it quite hard to deal with

 

[Imperator Romanum]

The problem with Landours-I is that it can choose what playstyle it wants to give hell. It can pack Knock off or CM and stall will have a really hard time. It can run rock polish or HP ice and offence is shaking. Landorus-I regardless of moveset gives balance hell. It's so easy to put on almost any type of team, bar stall, and be extremely effective. If I want to get rid of Tornadous-T I'll just put on Rock slide... It's easy to put on your team, it chooses what playstyle it wants to give and is almost uncounterable. BAN

 

[Raiza]

Landorus-I is an offensive presence thanks to its different sets NECESSARY in the OU tier, otherwise balanced and stall would become too much annoying.
Also it has a lot of revenge-killers and a few Pokemon that can counter it such as Cresselia, Chansey, Latias, Tornadus-T Latias-Mega and many more if you can scout its set. We could say lots of things, but from what I've seen Landorus-I is too much important. I will vote DO NOT BAN without any doubt. It doesn't force unhealthy 50/50, it fits well in Offensive teams and Balanced ones, there's no need to remove it in my opinion.
We could say lots of things to support its ban from the tier, but I think these aren't enough if you compare them with its unique movepool, stats and its characteristic niches which made it a top-tier Pokemon. It has to stay there.. for a balanced Metagame.

sorry Tricking but I have to answer there, as I think you're missing out on some points. First of all I don't think stall and balanced teams would become too much annoying, because of the variety of offensive powerhouses present in the metagame, which won't be less used even with the departure of Landorus-I, which I can't deny it's a pain for defensively-oriented teams, but can also fit in Balanced teams as you also said, so it would be a loss for them too. A few Pokemon you mentioned that are supposed to ''counter'' Landorus-I aren't actual counters, as Chansey has to be wary about Knock Off, which limits its bulk getting Eviolite away and allows Lando to pull off good damages with Focus Blast or whatever, same for Latias(not mega) which also finds trouble against Knock Off, and Tornadus-T which gets bopped by Rock Slide, so yeah I'll let you jump to conclusions. Also you're right saying it doesn't force unhealthy 50/50, too bad the reason it doesn't force them is because almost everytime it gets brought on the field something it's going to faint or gets down to low life anyway.

 

[ryan]

Randorosu is a Good Pokemon™ as certified by the Department of Good Sets™. I'm not going to waste a bunch of my time explaining what Landorus does because if you don't know, you shouldn't be posting here anyways. I understand why people think it's broken. It has absurd coverage, fantastic power, decent bulk for an offensive Pokemon because it doesn't take Life Orb recoil, and the ability to tear balanced teams to shreds even if they prepare for it. However, I don't think that Landorus should be banned.

OU's ideal Speed for an offensive Pokemon has obviously been creeping up drastically in the last few generations as we've gotten new really fast, really powerful Pokemon (Garchomp and Lati@s's unbanning in BW2, Keldeo, Terrakion, Tornadus(-T), Gengar, into Talonflame and a handful of Megas in Gen 6 that beat even those Speed tiers and hit just as hard). This hurts Landorus a lot because all of these Pokemon barring Talonflame I believe (I think Adamant Band OHKO's after Rocks but not before) have the ability to OHKO these Pokemon without a boost, which means if you predict correctly against the Landorus user, the momentum shift can swing right back in your favor. This is especially relevant because Landorus's STAB has a common immunity in the OU metagame. Yes, the prediction game goes both ways, but sending in Landorus and clicking Earth Power isn't as cost-free as others have implied.

Tricking sniped the main point of my argument that while Landorus is really, really powerful, it's a necessary force in the metagame in that it's pretty much the only wallbreaker that is fast enough to be decent against offense and does not take up a Mega slot. Given, it's not that hard to fit a wallbreaking Mega onto a team (Metagross, Diancie, Alakazam, Gardevoir, Lopunny to an extent) because they are so independently good, but Landorus's ban will propel the usage of these types of Pokemon and make fat balance almost risk-free to run. Other non-Mega wallbreakers in OU have exploitable flaws, and many are slow. Kyurem-Black has a lot of common weaknesses and poor Speed. Gengar is incredibly frail despite its great Speed and is vulnerable to Pursuit trapping. Manaphy requires at least one turn to set up before it is even remotely threatening to balanced teams, which gives you time to respond with an offensive check. Hydreigon is slow. The list goes on. Maybe the fact that Landorus doesn't have any really exploitable flaws pushes it into broken territory, but I feel it simply makes it the most reliable at its job and that it adds something good to the metagame.

On the other hand, Landorus really is nightmarish to cover in teambuilding, so I wouldn't be sad to see it banned. I just don't think it's the right way to go.

 

[shiloh]

Landorus-I is an offensive presence thanks to its different sets NECESSARY in the OU tier, otherwise balanced and stall would become too much annoying.
Also it has a lot of revenge-killers and a few Pokemon that can counter it such as Cresselia, Chansey, Latias, Tornadus-T Latias-Mega and many more if you can scout its set. We could say lots of things, but from what I've seen Landorus-I is too much important. I will vote DO NOT BAN without any doubt. It doesn't force unhealthy 50/50, it fits well in Offensive teams and Balanced ones, there's no need to remove it in my opinion.
We could say lots of things to support its ban from the tier, but I think these aren't enough if you compare them with its unique movepool, stats and its characteristic niches which made it a top-tier Pokemon. It has to stay there.. for a balanced Metagame.

I think this is an argument that will be thrown around a lot, and I don't believe in it at all. By saying that Broken checks / counters Broken, we should keep it in the tier we create a metagame filled with things that should be banned. If playstyles like stall or certain mons become more overpowered after we ban Lando-I, then we should ban those. Also you mention counters like Cresselia, Chansey, and Latias all which fall to Knock Off, and Cresselia can be set up on with Calm Mind if it lacks Ice Beam. Tornadus-T can be hit with Rock Slide very easily, but I will say Latias-Mega is one of the few 100% counters to Landorus-I.

 

[Valmanway]

I for one fully support a Landorus ban. My biggest gripe with Landorus has always been the All-Out Attacker set's absurd power, as it makes finding a good switch-in extremely difficult. The Pokemon that can actually switch into Landorus without taking ridiculous damage are few, and trying to find a wall that can last against it is even harder, so that can make teambuilding extremely difficult. In fact, the only two safe switch-ins against this set are Mega Latias and Cresselia, the former costing the team's Mega Slot, and the latter being unfortunately passive without Ice Beam; there are others, but they aren't foolproof safe switches. But you know what the best part is? Landorus has two other sets! The Rock Polish set sacrifices coverage for incredible Speed, enough Speed to outrun even Sand Rush Excadrill of all things, and Landorus has the bulk to pull this off at least once, and the fact that it can easily sweep just slightly weakened teams and not be outsped aside from priority is more than enough cause for concern. But Calm Mind makes its already insane power just unbelievable, and the extra special bulk gained means it can tank a special attack before going down. While no singular set is exactly broken, guessing the wrong set at hand can lead to your team's demise. But the first set I mentioned is what makes the setup sets so difficult to beat imo, and is what I feel the real issue is here.

Let me try to explain; the All-Out Attacker set is by far the most immediately threatening special attacker in OU, as even special walls can fall to it by virtue of its good coverage. Let's say you want to preserve the Pokemon you currently have out so you can save it for your opponent's Talonflame for later. So what do you do? You of course switch. And this is where a bit of a 50/50 can come into play; switching out runs the risk of Landorus setting up a Calm Mind or Rock Polish, but choosing not to switch means the Pokemon currently out will likely get wasted. What's worse, a good player could bluff the All-Out Attacker set and then fake them out with a Calm Mind or Rock Polish, making the mindgames even harder to play against. I know you guys are sick of 50/50 arguments by now since the Aegislash suspect test was chock full of them, but I think applying a 50/50 argument is appropriate enough here, as not knowing the set at hand can make approaching Landorus very difficult. remember mega Lucario? Mega Lucario had both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot sets, and guessing the wrong set, or losing this 50/50 coinflip in other words, often meant you'd lose a wall. A bit of an extreme comparison, I know, but I'm just trying to give a comparable example to what I'm trying to say about Landorus is all.

tl;dr Landorus creates an unhealthy presence not only by virtue of how few counters and switch-ins there are, but also by how guessing the wrong set can cost you a critical teammate. Ban Landorus, please.

 

[That Grammar Terrorist]

The fact that you have to run priority to specifically to revenge it makes it overcenteralizing. It also doesn't have many counters, making it quite hard to deal with

Not necessarily. Talonflame has 4 guaranteed counters at best, Rotom-W, Tyranitar, Scrotom-Heat, and Heatran, yet, notice how we're not suspecting talonflame? Coincidence? I think not.

As was stated earlier, Aegislash had counters, but that didn't make it not overcentralizing. On the other hand, gen 5 Haxorus had few counters, but it wasn't overcentralizing.
We're not banning things on the premise that they have few counters, rather, that they break the metagame over their knees, and Landorus-Therian is an example of not being overcentralizing.

You don't need priority to revenge kill it either, unless it already set up a rock polish, but that extends to any dragon dancers in general.
Of course you're going to have problems outspeeding a +1 Mega Charizard X.
Starmie, Weavile, and Keldeo are prime examples of things that otherwise outspeed it and send it to hell with their STAB.

 

[420LegitShucks]

The thing about Landorus-I is that is only has a base 101 Speed, meaning major threats like Garchomp, the Lati-twins and Alakazam can outspeed it. Plus, it needs to force a switch to set up CM or RP, which it has a hard time doing. Landorus-T, on the other hand, has so many opportunities to set up because of Intimidate. Sure, Landorus-T only has base 91 Speed, but at least it doesn't rely on RP. Non-Mega Sableye shuts it down with Taunt, Mega Evolves and walls it to hell and back. Also, like napty said, by the time you scout for the set, you've already lost at least 2 Pokemon. That's also one of the reasons why Deoxys-N was banned from Pokebank OU. Here's the reason:

Announcement XY OU: Ban of Blaziken and Deoxys-N[/SIZE]
]

• Its movepool is amazing. The only move you know for sure that it has is Psycho Boost, and maybe Superpower. From that point on, it's a guessing game to what it might have. Fire Punch/Hidden Power Fire and Extreme Speed are up there as the more commonly seen ones, but you also have Taunt and Stealth Rock as well. 'Suicide' lead sets with Stealth Rock and Focus Sash make a mockery of the word. Deoxys-N is getting up Stealth Rock for sure and is probably doing upwards of 60% on something minimum before it dies. This is without mentioning sets with Spikes and Magic Coat as a surprise factor. Unlike Deoxys-S, Deoxys-N does major damage with Psycho Boost and Superpower to anything that tries to spin or Defog away hazards, with the exception of literally only Mandibuzz and Scizor, who fear certain super effective moves regardless if Deoxys-N decides to carry them.

Another thing, lead Stealth Rock sets get dominated by Mega Diancie.

Landorus-I is easily revenge killed by Latios carrying Ice Beam, and holding a Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed it at +2.

 

[Tesung]

I think Lando I is definitely broken, and furthermore its banning will have a beneficial presence on the meta. It only has on decent counter, mega latias, which takes up a mega and is fairly passive. Every other mon can be lured. Also, not only does it 2hko most things like megametagross can, it also ohkoes so much stuff because of sheer power. Most of its moves dont have drawbacks. It can't be para'd. It doesnt mind burn Its pretty bulky and decently fast. It can rp too. In other words, it has like a billion good things about it and no drawbacks, besides like being water weak.

Its presence is also huge on teambuilding. It so hard to check defensively. I think right now balance isn't too strong, not because of just lando but for many reasons. While banning lando would make balance stronger, balance would be far from overpowered. With lando, however, builidng balance is nearly impossible and forces you to use fairly cookie cutter builds with latias/torn t.

Basically, lando is broken in itself and due to its presence on the meta. It needs to go

 

[Kabuto Yakushi]

First of all, I must say great song choice :3. This gets me everytime, good ole memories.


Second, this suspect test caught me by surprise, seeing as I never thought it was too... OP. It is strong, hits hard, but is not invincible. Far from that. It has a lot of counters, starting from Chansey, Goodra, The Lati Twins, Aqua Jet/Ice Shard users, Rotom-W, other specially defensive Pokemon etc.
So whoever says Landorus-I is too OP is either an inexperienced player, OR, got beat really bad by it one day and decided to rant about it in the OU room, and I think the second option is the most likely one.

Personally I, had never trouble dealing with it, not a single time, so I will vote do not ban.
And please, do not bother including my name in any of you guys' salty thoughts, we all know Landorus-I is not OP, but you guys are notorious for your bad decisions so, it doesn't really surprise me.


Peace!

 

[Bedschibaer]

The fact that you have to run priority to specifically to revenge it makes it overcenteralizing.

That statement doesn't really work since nobody runs "priority" to specifically revenge a certain mon, you run priority to revenge a wide variety of mons, to make up for lack of speed on many things, etc. There are many threats that have priority in ou at the moment, being a stop to quite alot frailer offensive threats. I wouldn't call that overcentralizing at all, having to run priority on a pretty big variety of teams just to not get shat on by a ton of offensive threats has been a thing for pretty much forever now.

 

[Tramuntana]

I cannot say i am surprised, but boys, Landorus I is just another wallbreaker. Put some ice moves and buky waters in your life, they won't dissapoint you

The fact that you have to run priority to specifically to revenge it makes it overcenteralizing. It also doesn't have many counters, making it quite hard to deal with

are you serious? Mamoswine and Azumarrill are incredible wallbreakers in OU, regardless of what the actual usage might say (tough if people stopped sticking to Freeze Dry and used something less useless, Mamoswine would go better). Being Landorus checks is just a bonus.
It's like saying scizor forces you to use fire types on your team, or that Latios requires a good steel or fairy type or special wall/tank to take on his DMs.