YES YES YES HAZARD TIMENO NIG TREE MEANS ALL THE HAZARDS LEGGO.
FERROSEED / QWILFISH / CRUSTLE / ACCELGOR / OMASTAR / RHYDON TEAMS Y/Y
#newmetashit
the problem with Musharna wasn't really dark-types, she just struggled to find a niche with all the other Psychic-types around. Musharna doesn't have much of a niche with Uxie and Mesprit around.Pondering if Musharna will start to rise in usage with the most popular Dark-type Knock Offer gone.
But probably not. :I
The only problem I see with this is that Mesprit still gets slayed by a very common offensive threat, Pawniard. Pawniard is still a huge threat, even with Shiftry (aka pawniard setup fodder) gone. Pawn's defensive typing is still a godsend to the tier, resulting in easy setups and only a couple mons that win 1v1s with it safely (most prominently poliwrath and weezing). While I believe Mesprit is a great mon with the loss of shiftry, it has 2 checks/counters in SPiritomb and Pawniard, leaving still witha bit to be desired.With Shiftry gone, hazards are bound to get even better than they already were. Another thing to look at possibly rising up in usage would be Mesprit, in particular, its offensive sets as it absolutely hated Sucker Punch from Shiftry. It's got the coverage, it's got decent enough bulk to work with, and Mesprit also has the power after a CM boost. Can't wait to test this out in theory.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mesprit Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Spiritomb: 230-272 (75.6 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recoveryThe only problem I see with this is that Mesprit still gets slayed by a very common offensive threat, Pawniard. Pawniard is still a huge threat, even with Shiftry (aka pawniard setup fodder) gone. Pawn's defensive typing is still a godsend to the tier, resulting in easy setups and only a couple mons that win 1v1s with it safely (most prominently poliwrath and weezing). While I believe Mesprit is a great mon with the loss of shiftry, it has 2 checks/counters in SPiritomb and Pawniard, leaving still witha bit to be desired.
The problem with Cacturne is that Gatr naturally outspeeds it and unless you invest in max speed and gatr is uninvested in speed you will get outsped and be killed by Ice Punch. If Cacturne had a higher base speed I would use it a lot more often because of the fact you can go special or physical (having both 115 in both base attack stats). I agree Missy will probably rise in usage because with the departure of Shiftry one of its biggest checks is gone. However Spiritomb is still very common and I think it should continue to run Dazzling Gleam to hit that hard on the switch.On a serious note cacturne might actually see some usage now?
Some of my thoughts:
A rise in the already popular Feraligatr as a late game sweeper as shiftry was very useful in taking care of this even at +2.
A rise in the use of mismagius since shiftry resisted it's stab and most of it's coverage moves (except maybe dazzling gleam) but even then you could get out predicted with the sucker punch mind games. I've been using mismagius and havent lost yet on the new ladder. Saying that, is dazzling gleam still the best coverage move? Since the other prominent dark types liepard and spiritomb can be dealt with using a +2 shadow ball or thunderbolt.
Perhaps a rise in the use of sneasel to replace the powerful knock off's of shiftry (I've been using this as well to great effect).
Anyway just my two cents
Combusken + Cacturne though.The problem with Cacturne is that Gatr naturally outspeeds it and unless you invest in max speed and gatr is uninvested in speed you will get outsped and be killed by Ice Punch. If Cacturne had a higher base speed I would use it a lot more often because of the fact you can go special or physical (having both 115 in both base attack stats). I agree Missy will probably rise in usage because with the departure of Shiftry one of its biggest checks is gone. However Spiritomb is still very common and I think it should continue to run Dazzling Gleam to hit that hard on the switch.
While Xatu is the perfect partner for Combusken letting it get around conventional counters to Baton Pass, Combusken can also pass to other Pokemon (like Kangaskhan and Gatr) and still be really effective. I don't know if you are suggesting a complex ban or what but here on smogon the complex ban solution is only taken into consideration when the problem can't be solved in any other manner (think about the bp clause in ou).I'll admit, I come from fighting games, so I don't fully understand other mindsets behind bans insofar as smogon's system (with fighting games, every single option has to be exhausted for a ban, and there's a chance it could take years for a conclusion), so maybe I'm talking out of my ass here? but I have a question that might be important:
people say that the reason countering combusken doesn't work is xatu, correct? I might have misread, but the things I am seeing here say that it's his magic bounce that makes things like roar a useless option. with that in mind, how well does combusken handle these counters without xatu at their side?
Basically what we're saying is that xatu isn't the only good recipient, the user of busken can choose the appropriate BP recipient for the situation and that's what makes it so threatening.While Xatu is the perfect partner for Combusken letting it get around conventional counters to Baton Pass, Combusken can also pass to other Pokemon (like Kangaskhan and Gatr) and still be really effective. I don't know if you are suggesting a complex ban or what but here on smogon the complex ban solution is only taken into consideration when the problem can't be solved in any other manner (think about the bp clause in ou).
I'm chill with proceeding with the vote soon, but I don't agree that Shiftry leaving didn't change things much.Also, some news regarding the Combusken test: As the tier shifts didn't really change the metagame too much, we will be proceeding with the vote soon.
im way too lazy to make a huge wall, but Vileplume ( also used to check/counter Feraligatr/Gurdurr/etc.., was only a check to Shiftry as it can be OHKOed after SR by a +2 LO Knock Off) and Pawniard (the best Defiant user in NU) were not only used for Shiftry, if anything it was just a bonus that they could check it lolI'm chill with proceeding with the vote soon, but I don't agree that Shiftry leaving didn't change things much.
Outside of being one of the most popular Pokemon in NU, Shiftry leaving changes things a lot for Combusken. Vileplume and Pawniard are both Pokemon that saw a decent amount of their usage because of Shiftry's presence in the metagame, and Combusken was so "dangerous" because it could set up on the common Shiftry, Vileplume, and Pawniard. With one of those three completely out of the meta and two of them likely seeing some drops in usage due to the lack of the first, I'm interested to see how well Combusken will fare.
I definitely still believe we should give it some more time in the metagame.
Yes, I know. None of them will become totally irrelevant in NU, but Shiftry's presence affected theirs as well.im way too lazy to make a huge wall, but Vileplume ( also used to check/counter Feraligatr/Gurdurr/etc.., was only a check to Shiftry as it can be OHKOed after SR by a +2 LO Knock Off) and Pawniard (the best Defiant user in NU) were not only used for Shiftry, if anything it was just a bonus that they could check it lol
edit: my english suck