Speed isn't really necessary on Gogoat, but you could run 20 speed EVs to outspeed uninvested base 70s like Assault Vest Samurott, Dewgong, Defensive Ludicolo and such. You could go further to 100 EVs to outspeed univested base 80s as well.
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Metagame NP: NU (beta): Welcome to the NU Age (Combusken Banned)
- Thread starter Raseri
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I'd say speed is good on gogoat max speed and hp w/ jolly and life orb as bulk up increases your attack so not much need to invest in it.
Anyways I tried frogadier yesterday damn is that thing good! It has 97 speed outspeeding base 95s which is awesome it has a colorfull movepool albeit it misses some moves like extrasensory but still, hell it can even run a suppport set w/ spikes and tspikes.
Anyways I tried frogadier yesterday damn is that thing good! It has 97 speed outspeeding base 95s which is awesome it has a colorfull movepool albeit it misses some moves like extrasensory but still, hell it can even run a suppport set w/ spikes and tspikes.
I really wouldnt recommend running max speed life orb gogoat. It's speed is just too slow, and it cant take hits that well uninvested. If you want to use life orb on a grass type try Shiftry or Sceptile. Gogoat is far better running this kind of set:
Gogoat
Leftovers
252hp 232 spdef 20spd
Careful nature
~Bulk Up
~Leaf Blade/Horn Leech
~Milk Drink
~Rock Slide
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You mean careful right? I like this set too, as I use a set very similar to this for nearly all my Gogoats. However, I do think a Gogoat like this is still viable and not quite outclassed by Shiftry and Sceptile:
Gogoat @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 100 Spd / 252 Atk / 156 HP
Adamant Nature
- Milk Drink
- Horn Leech
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Another pro for Life Orb is that Gogoat doesn't mind being forced out as much. I still slightly prefer using Bulk Up though, but this set has some nice benefits over it.
Poliwrath is god. It is way too underrated atm, and it beats so much shit it is not even funny. It is one of the bulkier pokemon in the tier, and yet doesn't lose out on offensive presence specially or physically, and sits at a very respectable 70 Base Speed. On top of this, it has access to a great ability in Water Absorb, letting it switch into stuff like Gatr, Rott, and Toad ridiculously, and it is further supported by a great movepool. Honestly, not enough people use it, and it is just a crazy monster when used correctly. It is also extremely Anti-Lead, forcing everything from Steelix to Seismitoad out before the game even begins. Just a really awesome, underused mon.
Bulk Calcs (Protox + Defensive Resttalk):
- 252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 170-204 (44.2 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Lanturn Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 194-230 (50.5 - 59.8%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Malamar Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 150-176 (39 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 278-330 (72.3 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Poliwrath Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 283-334 (87.3 - 103%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
- 252+ Atk Poliwrath Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 109-129 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- 88.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Poliwrath Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Xatu: 192-228 (57.4 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Poliwrath Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vileplume: 166-196 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Protox - Definitely my favorite set, it does everything the defensive one does, but beats tons of common sweepers and can stall out a multitude of pokemon, offering tons of support to offensive teams. Protect and Toxic make a great combination for filler, widdling down Poliwraths common checks and counters.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Circle Throw
- Toxic
- Protect
Defensive - A really nice set for stall or balance, it checks some of the tiers most potent threats and makes them look dumb. Things like Swords Dance Samurott and Dragon Dance Feraligatr cannot even touch it, and are completely helpless to its phazing and burning.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Circle Throw
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Toxic
SubPunch - Such a beast. Poliwrath forces switches, and this set capitilizes on it too well. A STAB Focus Punch (150 BP) off a respectable max attack 95 Adamant hits like a truck, 2HKO'ing everything that doesn't resist it, guaranteed. It also has a great filler space, that you can take advantage of with moves like Ice Punch to smash Vileplume, Toxic for common switches, Encore to get more Subs up, and Bulk Up to fuck shit up.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Focus Punch
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Ice Punch / Toxic / Encore / Bulk Up
Offensive Support - A really cool set, it puts in work against more offensive teams that rely on specially offensive pokemon, because it just tanks a lot of hits and deals shit tons of damage back. Epic.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers/Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Encore / Earthquake / Rock Slide
Jumpluff is an... odd Pokemon, to say the least. Not many people ever think about it when teambuilding and not many people really feel threatened by it when they see it in the team preview. However, Jumpluff has very many positive attributes, along with many negative ones. Jumpluff has grown to be my absolute favorite Pokemon to use in NU, I used it extensively last generation, and this generation, it got hit hard. The loss of Flying Gem is really sad and it did hit Jumpluff hard. However, in return, Jumpluff's Infiltrator got buffed! It now can put something to Sleep through Substitute, or set a Leech Seed through Substitute, which can be very helpful in time of need! Jumpluff has a blistering 110 Speed, which puts it ahead of one very important threat: Durant. Jumpluff also has access to a very cool Swords Dance set, which I've played a couple matches with now. Jumpluff has myriad of support options, such as Leech Seed, Memento, Encore, Stun Spore, and Sleep Powder, amongst others. Jumpluff also has gotten a very random buff, increasing its Special Defense from 85 to 95 in the transition of this generation. However, Jumpluff is not without its flaws. Firstly, it suffers from a crippling Stealth Rock weakness, as it is part flying, it also is weak to many common moves such as Flying-, Fire-, and Ice-type moves, and it doesn't exactly have the bulk to live from any of them. Jumpluff is effortlessly beaten by Fletchinder, and other Pokemon with priority. Jumpluff also has massive four moveslot syndrome, having to pick from its colorful movepool and only four at that! Overall, Jumpluff isn't exactly the most threatening, but if played to its strengths, it will certainly pull its weight in your battles! Here's my preferred set:
Jumpluff @ No Item
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
Jumpluff @ No Item
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
I'm a huge, huge proponent of the defensive RestTalk set. Like you say, it gives zero shits about any physical threat, even including things that should counter it like Virizion and Scyther. Scald burns are the great equalizer. Setting up on it just makes you look silly when you get Circle Throw'd (barring Doublade, which can't do shit to Poliwrath anyways).
Poliwrath is god. It is way too underrated atm, and it beats so much shit it is not even funny. It is one of the bulkier pokemon in the tier, and yet doesn't lose out on offensive presence specially or physically, and sits at a very respectable 70 Base Speed. On top of this, it has access to a great ability in Water Absorb, letting it switch into stuff like Gatr, Rott, and Toad ridiculously, and it is further supported by a great movepool. Honestly, not enough people use it, and it is just a crazy monster when used correctly. It is also extremely Anti-Lead, forcing everything from Steelix to Seismitoad out before the game even begins. Just a really awesome, underused mon.
Bulk Calcs (Protox + Defensive Resttalk):
Offensive Calcs (SubPunch + Offensive Support):
- 252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 170-204 (44.2 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Lanturn Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 194-230 (50.5 - 59.8%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Malamar Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 150-176 (39 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 278-330 (72.3 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see, Poliwrath is a monster on both sides of the spectrum, even against as the above calcs show pokemon it should in theory lose to. It deals tons of damage and is very bulky, and just between these four sets becomes very unpredictable for the opponent to deal with, especially with such a wide viable movepool.
- 252+ Atk Poliwrath Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 283-334 (87.3 - 103%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
- 252+ Atk Poliwrath Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 109-129 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- 88.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Poliwrath Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Xatu: 192-228 (57.4 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Poliwrath Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vileplume: 166-196 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Protox - Definitely my favorite set, it does everything the defensive one does, but beats tons of common sweepers and can stall out a multitude of pokemon, offering tons of support to offensive teams. Protect and Toxic make a great combination for filler, widdling down Poliwraths common checks and counters.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Circle Throw
- Toxic
- Protect
Defensive - A really nice set for stall or balance, it checks some of the tiers most potent threats and makes them look dumb. Things like Swords Dance Samurott and Dragon Dance Feraligatr cannot even touch it, and are completely helpless to its phazing and burning.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Circle Throw
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Toxic
SubPunch - Such a beast. Poliwrath forces switches, and this set capitilizes on it too well. A STAB Focus Punch (150 BP) off a respectable max attack 95 Adamant hits like a truck, 2HKO'ing everything that doesn't resist it, guaranteed. It also has a great filler space, that you can take advantage of with moves like Ice Punch to smash Vileplume, Toxic for common switches, Encore to get more Subs up, and Bulk Up to fuck shit up.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Focus Punch
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Ice Punch / Toxic / Encore / Bulk Up
Offensive Support - A really cool set, it puts in work against more offensive teams that rely on specially offensive pokemon, because it just tanks a lot of hits and deals shit tons of damage back. Epic.
Poliwrath @ Leftovers/Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Encore / Earthquake / Rock Slide
If you're looking at a Durant counter, which you should be because that stupid ant is on 95% of teams, look no further than Poliwrath. It resists just about every possible coverage move Durant carries besides Thunder Fang, which I've yet to see on any Durant.
I know people have been putting it down a lot for having a lot of incompatible moves, but I present to you the destroyer of sweeps Kecleon.
@ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break/ Fire Punch
Spam priority, kill things. Nothing can take many hits from this thing when it first comes in. Fake out + Sucker punch 2hko almost all the relevant threats, even durant after 1 round of LO recoil and rocks. 44 speed because I'm a sucker for speed creeping everything (it also beat base 45's by 1 point I guess). Brick Break kills Audino, and get rid of screens I guess. Play mind games with Sucker Punch and Shadow sneak if you can.Fire Punch hit Durant, and means you can't get burned, situational. Fire Punch is illegal with Protean :<
Yeah it faces competition from stuff (mainly Kanga) but the only thing Kanga really brings is bulk and speed. For pure power Kecleon's sucker punch is a great deal stronger.
Ability: Protean
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break
Spam priority, kill things. Nothing can take many hits from this thing when it first comes in. Fake out + Sucker punch 2hko almost all the relevant threats, even durant after 1 round of LO recoil and rocks. 44 speed because I'm a sucker for speed creeping everything (it also beat base 45's by 1 point I guess). Brick Break kills Audino, and get rid of screens I guess. Play mind games with Sucker Punch and Shadow sneak if you can.
Yeah it faces competition from stuff (mainly Kanga) but the only thing Kanga really brings is bulk and speed. For pure power Kecleon's sucker punch is a great deal stronger.
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Encore and Seed Bomb are better options over Sleep Powder and Substitute, only because a STAB Seed Bomb helps you catch Rock types that walls your main STAB, and Encore is almost always superior for getting you the setup, since Sleep Powder is walled by stuff like Vileplume, while Encore is much more versatile and reliable in most cases to nab you the +2.Jumpluff is an... odd Pokemon, to say the least. Not many people ever think about it when teambuilding and not many people really feel threatened by it when they see it in the team preview. However, Jumpluff has very many positive attributes, along with many negative ones. Jumpluff has grown to be my absolute favorite Pokemon to use in NU, I used it extensively last generation, and this generation, it got hit hard. The loss of Flying Gem is really sad and it did hit Jumpluff hard. However, in return, Jumpluff's Infiltrator got buffed! It now can put something to Sleep through Substitute, or set a Leech Seed through Substitute, which can be very helpful in time of need! Jumpluff has a blistering 110 Speed, which puts it ahead of one very important threat: Durant. Jumpluff also has access to a very cool Swords Dance set, which I've played a couple matches with now. Jumpluff has myriad of support options, such as Leech Seed, Memento, Encore, Stun Spore, and Sleep Powder, amongst others. Jumpluff also has gotten a very random buff, increasing its Special Defense from 85 to 95 in the transition of this generation. However, Jumpluff is not without its flaws. Firstly, it suffers from a crippling Stealth Rock weakness, as it is part flying, it also is weak to many common moves such as Flying-, Fire-, and Ice-type moves, and it doesn't exactly have the bulk to live from any of them. Jumpluff is effortlessly beaten by Fletchinder, and other Pokemon with priority. Jumpluff also has massive four moveslot syndrome, having to pick from its colorful movepool and only four at that! Overall, Jumpluff isn't exactly the most threatening, but if played to its strengths, it will certainly pull its weight in your battles! Here's my preferred set:
Jumpluff @ No Item
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
For everybody who knows me, my favorite pokemon is Jumpluff. So thank you so much for posting. :)
Those are both great options, but I've loved Sleep Powder, as a Magmortor of all things was about to sweep me and I put it to sleep, then could get to a counter, it was kind of a last ditch hope, but it came in handy. And I've been noticing an increase in SubDurant, or at least in my battles, but both are great! I just like Substitute to shield from Thunder Waves and Burns, while it 'makes up' for its bulk. Seed Bomb seems great, but this set is meant to be played after resists to Flying are gone. I actually use this on a 'bird spam' team with Archeops, who softens them both up with Earthquake.
And no problem:)
I agree that Sleep Powder is quite useful, as you can put a counter to sleep and abuse the free turns and because Grass-types, which are immune to it, have trouble switching in because of Acrobatics. But I don't get why you mention Magmortar, which is actually immune to sleep moves because of Vital Spirit. Maybe your opponent was using Flame Body in that match, but if it had Vital Spirit (the most common and far superior ability) using Sleep Powder would be a wasted turn.
So I'm in new to NU and tried building a Sticky Web team and it's been pretty effective (I'm still around the lower ladder, so there's that) and Shuckle is by far the most effective setter.
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Calm Nature
252 HP/ 252 SpDef/ 4 Spd
-Sticky Web
-Stealth Rock
-Encore
-Toxic
I don't lead with him, but instead Accelgor w/Spikes. That often draws out Rapid Spinners and Defoggers, who are taken out by Final Gambit. On to the point, this Shuckle with Mental Herb guarantees Sticky Web, and he often gets up Stealth Rock too, considering I haven't run into nearly as much Taunt users as OU. Encore prevents him from becoming set up bait, especially with a little prediction. Toxic is there just because poisoning walls is better than knocking off their items imo, and infestation is kinda pointless on this set. Xatu completely fucks him, but that's what teammates are for. He kills momentum, but for a Sticky Web team that's a fair trade off for laying down SW.
Edit: Forgot to mention that the 4 Speed EVs are to Speed creep other Shuckle. After they lay down SW or SR I encore them to prevent other hazards from going up.
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Calm Nature
252 HP/ 252 SpDef/ 4 Spd
-Sticky Web
-Stealth Rock
-Encore
-Toxic
I don't lead with him, but instead Accelgor w/Spikes. That often draws out Rapid Spinners and Defoggers, who are taken out by Final Gambit. On to the point, this Shuckle with Mental Herb guarantees Sticky Web, and he often gets up Stealth Rock too, considering I haven't run into nearly as much Taunt users as OU. Encore prevents him from becoming set up bait, especially with a little prediction. Toxic is there just because poisoning walls is better than knocking off their items imo, and infestation is kinda pointless on this set. Xatu completely fucks him, but that's what teammates are for. He kills momentum, but for a Sticky Web team that's a fair trade off for laying down SW.
Edit: Forgot to mention that the 4 Speed EVs are to Speed creep other Shuckle. After they lay down SW or SR I encore them to prevent other hazards from going up.
Oh yeah, just noticed that lol, then yes I faced a Flame Body Magmortor u,u
Mental herb actually cancels out encore as well, so that won't do you a lot of good in practice since most Shuckle will be carrying mental herb anyway.
Sticky Web as a strategy is pretty cool though. In higher tiers, the hazard removers are generally good enough that you can honestly use them without even needing them that much (Hitmonlee in RU/Lati@s in OU, Arceus in Ubers, and so on). In NU, however, you generally only want to use a Pokemon with Rapid Spin or Defog if you really need that support because our hazard removers, while far more readily available in this generation than last, are generally just not good enough to warrant usage on their own. This gives Sticky Web a bit more room to thrive in NU than in most other tiers. We also have a lot of really fantastic Pokemon to make great use of the hazard. My Sticky Web team has Life Orb Magmortar and Toxic Orb Zangoose, two Pokemon that are terrifying wallbreakers in their own right and amazing cleaners as well when they get both the power boost of their items and the edge on Speed that Sticky Web offers.
It's just a really scary strategy in NU right now. The only problem is that the ladder doesn't seem to understand just how bad most of our hazard removers are independently, and they actually will just slap them onto any old team.
It's just a really scary strategy in NU right now. The only problem is that the ladder doesn't seem to understand just how bad most of our hazard removers are independently, and they actually will just slap them onto any old team.
Knowing the ladder Hitmonchan is probably going to be RU and he will be the new Sandslash in RU. We still have Cryogonal, Sandlash and the godly Wartortle for spinning though.
And Armaldo and Avalugg (they're both slow and weak to stealth rock though, but Avalugg has recover like Cryogonal and Armaldo has Knock Off like Sandslash to threaten spinblockers. Both are strong and bulky as well).
Yeah that does happen occasionally, but most people lead with Shuckle, on the lower ladder at least, and It's helpful if you've already made them use their Mental Herb and they try to set up hazards again if you've removed them. Besides, its not like putting those EVs in Def is going to help that much with his already massive base Def.
252 hp 252 attack 4 whatever (but speed imo)
88 HP / 252 Atk / 84 SDef / 84 Spd
The 84 Speed helps you outpace uninvested base 50's and smack them, while offering you a good speed tier against other leads, and the HP and SDef EV spread in combination with Eviolite lets you avoid 2HKO's from tons of pokemon.
You may think that Rhydon should be defensive, but in reality it is played as a bulky offensive support tank like Golem or Regirock.
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