Need help for VGC torneys XD

[blablage]

Hi, I'm bablage, it has been a while since i posted here in the forum XD. The idea was to run many sweepers as i could put in the team because VGC its really agrressive in terms of... all XD. i tried this team in the DS tournament a week ago but it had its flaws


Chandelure (M) @ Fire Gem (and yes, i learnt in the bad way that i have to change all my pokemon to female, thanks to attract cresselia DX)
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Protect

MY favorite pokemon and the one i started the team with. Heat wave + fire gem can do great damage. Energy Ball to nail that nasty politoad or other ground types. shadow ball for another good STAB and Protect its a staple here in VGC.

Zapdos @ Charti berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 140 HP / 252 SpAtk / 116 Spd
Modest Nature ( +SAtk, -Atk)
- Discharge
- HP Ice
- Heat Wave
- Detect

It was nice to play it along with Mamoswine for the "disquake" combination but i couldnt set all the times by the rain teams and the presence of latios DX. HP Ice its to nail those dragon or ground pokemon. Heat wave its another good attack for zapdos for nailing steels.

Mamoswine (M) @ Ice Gem
Trait: Snow cloak (want to change it to Thick fat)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice shard
- Icicle spear
- Protect

nice ally of zapdos and the strongest Psysical Ice pokemon i found XD. Eaarthquake its agood STAB and complements the disquake combination. Ice gem its nice with ice shard to make damage as much as posible first to faster pokemon like garchomp and spear its to break substitutues and berries.

Scizor (M) @ Occa berry
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 SpDef / 252 Atk / 252 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet punch
- Bug bite
- Superpower
- Protect

i think its a little redundant to add scizor and breloom together but I added szicor because while i was testing my team many people spammed latios XD so i wanted a counter to him XD (im thinking about swich him out). Bullet puch its anice prio move. bug bite its to nail psychic types and superpower to take down tyranitar or if i need an urgent huge damage.

Breloom (M) @ Toxic orb
Trait: poison heal
EVs: 4 Speed / 252 Atk / 252 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Mach punch
- Spore
- Seed bomb
- Protect
The idea was to have an spore abuser and a grass type pokemon in my team. it replaced virizion because the benefits of spore and poison heal can have xD. mach pucnh for STAB and seed bomb to take down water types

Golduck (M) @ Focus sash
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
Timid Nature (+Speed, -Atk)
- Scald
- Icy wind
- HP electric
- Protect

I saw that my team was severy weak bt rain teams so i added golduck to counter them and have a water type pokemon in my team. focus sash its to keep golduck in battle as possible and can invest the EVs in Sp atk and speed. Scald its a nice STab that can make Burn damage. icy wind i liked it beacuse it hit both enemy´s pokemon and makes -1 to speed. HP electric its to have something to nail politoad XD.

Any rate is welcome, as I could use all the insight I can get, and if you do take the time to write up a rate, thank you.

and sorry if i hadnt put any images XD. i dunno how to put them XD

 

[EKproudCC]

You need a Fake Out user on your team, since you are vulnerable for some movements like Tailwind or Trick Room. I think Chandelure has to get a Modest nature instead Timid or remain Timid Nature, bur investing some EV's deppending what you want to outspeed, but major changes has to occur on your team, like Tailwind on Zapdos.

If you are worried about climatic teams, what about this?

Lickilicky (M)@Sitrus Berry
T:Cloud Nine
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Power Whip
- Earthquake
- Protect

 

[Drifblim]

This system of organization is annoying, adding pics of the Pokemon if possible would be helpful. Same goes for not putting thoughts on an ability/item next to it....

Chandelure: Timid is a good idea, enables you to outrun almost all other Chandelures. Just remember that they will probably have a Focus Sash. It is a good item for Chandelure, take it seriously as another option.

Zapdos: Charti Berry would work a bit better with some kind of Intimidate support. Tyranitar is still able to 2HKO, most other stuff with Rock Slide tends not to do too much damage with it anyway, there are more beneficial items. Sitrus is great for staying alive, Electric Gem for power. Thunderbolt>Discharge, you only have one immunity and one resist(on low SpDef). The partner will likely be forced to Protect when it is used, Thunderbolt is more versatile and more powerful, even though it single-targets. As EKproudCC suggested, Tailwind is a good option. This team can benefit significantly from it, nothing is too slow or already really fast. Scizor would just want to run at least 44 Speed EVs so he can outrun unboosted base 70's and Thundurus whilst under Tailwind.

Mamoswine: I am pretty sure getting Thick Fat would be very hard, but it is a good ability for Mamo. He can probably benefit more from a Focus Sash then Golduck. Ice Gem's power boost can be very helpful, but Mamoswine's horrid typing and meh bulk make it hard for him to survive too long otherwise.

Scizor: I never cared too much for Superpower on Scizor. It doesn't hit anything too special Scizor couldn't already damage, and if they switch in a resist to it switching might be necessary from the stat drop. Gemcrobatics is a good Scizor set, you lose Occa but get a decent chance to OHKO HTop, even at -1. Occa won't save Scizor from anything off of a Fire Gem anyways.

Breloom: Drain Punch or Mach Punch can be a hard decision. Mach Punch is a good deal weaker, yet has priority, and Drain Punch can hit harder and help heal. I prefer Drain Punch. Also, if you go with Tailwind Zapdos, Drain Punch is sure to be better because Mach Punch's priority would barely matter with Tailwind up.

Golduck: Not a very good option in terms of weather control. Not quite frail enough for Sash, but still has pretty mediocre bulk. Doesn't hit very hard. Also offers up Focus Sash if he is switched out, which is good. Your own weather user, like Tyranitar or Abomasnow, would work better in this spot. Abomasnow would be better for the Evasion boost he gives to Mamo, but just adds to the team's general Fire weakness.

The team as a whole has numerous weaknesses. Fire is a huge issue, as is Latios. I couldn't suggest too much without testing it but it could need a heavy deal of reworking, I just don't see much synergy.

 

[blablage]

fisrt Sorry about the images as i said i dont know how to put them XD

actually the second poke i thought about cloud nine was lickilicky but by first glance i picked golduck because it was faster and had more SpAtk. considering i would pick up an adamant likilicky, it has more HP and one weakness it worht a try on it xD.

If a pick up lickilicky i could have again my focus sash on chandelure, so i could invest on SpAtk and speed right?

i noticed in the Nintendo´s tourney that zapdos was more targeted by ice beam than stuff like rock slide, i was thinking about using an yache berry too, thinking it about it, zapdos its too vulnerable to wide guard and besides i have already heat wave so i will try thunderbolt. i will try too tailwind on zapdos surely XD , but i really need a poke with intimidate. too much hitmontop spamming XD.

the problem of thick fat on mamoswine its that u can only get it male, so u cant breed it to get ice shard and icicle spear with the ability.

for now i think these three pokes would be the base of the team (zapdos, chandelure and mamoswine), the problem its with the other three because it doesnt have too synergy and im weak against fire, as Drifblim said,
i dunno which other ones would fit well

 

[Drifblim]

The 3 you say you will use as a base are all weak to Rock. Mamoswine can hurt Rock with EQ, but a more solid counter to it would be a nice addition. How about Wide Guard Hitmontop? He can Intimidate Rock types and hinder their physical attacking prowess, Wide Guard when Rock Slide is expected, and just murder with Close Combat!

 

[blablage]

yeah! XD its my turn to spamm hitmontop! XD
and besides, i will try that lickilicky for now so i can attack rock types too with his power
whip

but i still have the problem with latios and that goodstuff XD what else i can use?

 

[Lucifers Pride]

I like the team you have here! The Pokemon seem to fit together with some good synergy pairs! I am mostly interested, and a huge fan, of the synergy pair of Zapdos and Mamoswine. Both work very well together, covering up each others weaknesses, but there are a few things that could be done to improve the two.

With all of the Hitmontops and common Fighting- and Grass-types, using Hidden Power Flying on Zapdos is a great improvement. Grass-types are hit a lot harder by Hidden Power Flying than Ice, due to STAB, and dealing large amounts to Hitmontop, KOing after a Defense drop due to Close Combat, can always help! Not to mention Ice-type moves should be covered excellently by Mamoswine.

Mamoswine is a very tough Pokemon to use in VGC with all of its common weaknesses, but there is one thing that makes Mamoswine useful, Focus Sash. Mamoswine can't take a STAB Heat Wave from Chandelure, or a Meteor Mash from Metagross, but with a Sash Mamoswine can KO Chandelure and do massive damage to Metagross, it does about 90% to non-Shuca Metagross. You do have to be careful of Fake Out users, however. Mamoswine loves Snow Cloak as an ability. What better thing to do than to take advantage of the opponents weather? Remember, Abomasnow is one of the most commonly used Pokemon in VGC.

Golduck benefits a lot more from using a Wacan Berry, allowing it to take the common Thunderbolt from Zapdos or Thundurus.

I hope I could help! Good luck with the team! If you have any questions please feel free to ask!

 

[blablage]

Thinking about it would be a nice idea a HP flying on zapdos as i have already an ice atacker i will consider it XD. wacan berry its good too to have the focus sash free XD. thanks for the advice

maybe i will add the lickikicky or the tyranitar for the weather counter (tyranitar can kill latios with one crunch too >:D) but thats would mean i will have only two special attackers

any ideas?

 

[Drifblim]

HP Flying tends not to be better then HP Ice unless you can have a Flying Gem to go with it. It doesn't OHKO Hitmontop, I bet most Fighting types spare Breloom can survive. And Heat Wave works fine for the Grass and Bug types. Just my thoughts though, they are both decent moves

 

[Lucifers Pride]

HP Flying tends not to be better then HP Ice unless you can have a Flying Gem to go with it. It doesn't OHKO Hitmontop, I bet most Fighting types spare Breloom can survive. And Heat Wave works fine for the Grass and Bug types. Just my thoughts though, they are both decent moves

It KOs top after they use a CC, he may not always lead with Zapdos, and Heat Wave misses so it's unreliable. You need to try and be less hax-weak when playing, so HP Flying is the safer choice against Grass- and Bug-types.

Ice is covered so well by Mamoswine, you literally use it almost 100% of the time, due to it hitting 4-5/6 of every person's team for SE damage, and using HP Ice leaves you very weak to Hitmontop, no pokemon on his team likes to deal with Hitmontop, except maybe Breloom if it gets the Spore of.

Use Tyranitar. It's a monster.

Tyranitar @ Dark Gem
Adamant Nature
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Crunch
Rock Slide
Low Kick
Protect

Chople is weak. Tyranitar still dies from most fighting-type attacks even with a chople. Just play TTar safely by using HP Flying to kill Fighting-types and waiting until TTar can sweep. Dark Gem Crunch is very overlooked. It has a 57% chance to KO standard Cresselia, due to Sand damage. Talk about power. Rock Slide is great. It smashes Zapdos and common flyers, while Low Kick messes w/ other TTars and Heatrans.

 

[Ignitrua]

It KOs top after they use a CC, he may not always lead with Zapdos, and Heat Wave misses so it's unreliable. You need to try and be less hax-weak when playing, so HP Flying is the safer choice against Grass- and Bug-types.

Ice is covered so well by Mamoswine, you literally use it almost 100% of the time, due to it hitting 4-5/6 of every person's team for SE damage, and using HP Ice leaves you very weak to Hitmontop, no pokemon on his team likes to deal with Hitmontop, except maybe Breloom if it gets the Spore of.

Use Tyranitar. It's a monster.

Tyranitar @ Dark Gem
Adamant Nature
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Crunch
Rock Slide
Low Kick
Protect

Chople is weak. Tyranitar still dies from most fighting-type attacks even with a chople. Just play TTar safely by using HP Flying to kill Fighting-types and waiting until TTar can sweep. Dark Gem Crunch is very overlooked. It has a 57% chance to KO standard Cresselia, due to Sand damage. Talk about power. Rock Slide is great. It smashes Zapdos and common flyers, while Low Kick messes w/ other TTars and Heatrans.

I feel HP Ice is certainly worth more than HP Fly, you can actually do something to Mence and Chomp :p
You don't always rely on a single pokemon for a particular move type - if you lose that pokemon (which will almost always happen in VGC) you have effectively lost that type, which, in the case of Ice attacks, isn't always the greatest scenario.
Tyranitar is perfectly fine with Chople. He may not live a Top's CC, but he will take the occasional Low Kick/Drain Punch. An even better set is the speedy Sash TTar, which is my definite favourite TTar set.

Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
Trait: Sand Stream (Obviously)
Adamant: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Crunch
-Rock Slide
-Low Kick/Stone Edge (Stone Edge for Zapdos/HGSS haters)
-Protect
Focus Sash is hands down the best thing for TTar - it allows him to run max speed and still be able to be not OHKOd by stuff like Metagross and Scizor, as well as affording him one-turn survival against Hitmontop and Hariyama. The speed allows him to get 113 speed, beating tons of slow stuff like Cress, Top, Meta, Suicune, Scizor etc etc. I haven't really been paying much attention :p

All ignorance aside, you should seriously consider Thunderbolt on Zapdos - while a few of your pokemon can tank Discharge, the threat of paralysing your own mons is really troubling, forcing you to waste valuable time Protecting when you could be obliterating stuff. If rain is bothering you, try out Tailwind over Detect, the extra speed allows you to beat weather abusers easily.

Also, with regards to images, there should be a picture of two mountains above the post thingamejig. Simply press it, and you will get: 'Please enter the URL of your image:' For the URL, simply find a picture on google or something, right-click it, click 'Open image in new tab' and copy the web address of the image on its own into the URL box for the image. In other words, through removing the stars in this bit here, you can turn this:
[IMG*]http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/c86258a0cd49635a60b4319ed1148c14/http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y68/PsychoLeCemu13/chandelure_animated_sprite_by_devinwarriors-d38p0qh.gif[/IMG*]
into this:

 

[Lucifers Pride]

To my fellow teamraters, I would like to offer this one piece of advice: No Pokemon should function alone on a team, but every Pokemon on a team should function as one. This team has a lot of potential to do so, so please let it do so.

If you've ever used Mamoswine and Zapdos on a team together, you would know that HP Flying is the superior option. Hitmontop is a serious problem to this team, and removing it helps alleviate a lot of pressure he puts on the team. Hitmontop can probably 2HKO most of this team with Close Combat, while Zapdos walls Hitmontop and 2HKOs, or OHKO after he uses CC, while Discharge is a 2-3HKO. If Hitmontop has enough damage on it, (26% or more) HP Flying will KO 100% of the time. Thunderbolt does 2HKO Top, but it cannot OHKO, even after a SpD drop.

Mamoswine simply cannot function without a Focus Sash, and Tyranitar should not get it. Mamoswine is unaffected by both damaging Weather, gets the best Priority move in the game, STAB too, and with Sash can actually run some Speed and outspeed Bulky threats.

Discharge is good for getting some Paralysis on the opponent, but the fact that it forces you to Protect can suck. I would try Thunderbolt though and see what you like more.

 

[Drifblim]

Like I said, not one is really better, I just feel HP Ice is more general. Mamoswine and Zapdos won't always be out together, without HP Ice Zapdos can't do much of anything to Dragons. Heat Wave isn't all that hax prone either, even when double targetting it has higher base power then HP Flying and also gets to do damage to their partner.

 

[Ravix]

Lucifer, I would encourage you to hold your tongue if you ever feel like making a similar comment in the future. Seems curious that you would feel compelled to say "fellow team raters", considering that you only joined the website this month (and that this is only your 7th post). I would encourage you to lurk more, or possibly wait until your other account is unbanned.

///

That said.

HP flying over ice for this team and utilize a sitrus berry, T-bolt is superior to discharge as well. You have Mamoswine for Ice attacks and flying offers you better coverage. Grass is also an option, but it really just comes down to what you feel your team finds itself needing in the moment. Movesets should reflect your own personal play style.

For instance, you could ditch HP altogether and run tailwind in order to boost the speed of your team. There are a lot of options worth considering when it comes to meshing a specific group of pokemon.

I would suggest a Choice-scarf Tyranitar, it is quite surprising and can net you a large advantage over things that do not expect it (even some that do)

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Low Kick

 

[Lucifers Pride]

Lucifer, I would encourage you to hold your tongue if you ever feel like making a similar comment in the future. Seems curious that you would feel compiled to say "fellow team raters", considering that you only joined the website this month (and that this is only your 7th post). I would encourage you to lurk more, or possibly wait until your other account is unbanned.

The intention was not to be rude, but just to help prove my point on the HP Ice v. Flying thing.

Perhaps I've been lurking without making an account for this VGC season, and I just now feel like I can contribute to the community. Or maybe I had an account on Skarmbliss and when it died I migrated with everyone else. And what do you mean by "other account?"

I agree very much to ScarfTar. Nothing feel better than outspeed their Latios and KOing it turn 1. Switching is annoying though.

 

[blablage]

very right XD
the enough speed to outrun latios XD i will definety put him in
by fisrt glance i though tyranitar would be slow to countering the rain teams, but with this poke this can be arranged swiching him out in turn 2, negating the swift swim and and attack fisrt with the other poke

it only leaves me with a problem
adding him will make my team made by chanderure-zapdos-mamoswine-tyranitar-hitmontop and szicor. i see it a little unbalanced tehm 4 -2 and making me weak against intimidate. i need a 3rd special atacker and get rid of a phisicall attacker , but which one should i choose?

 

[Ravix]

You could swap hitmontop out for a pokemon with more utility in your team. I think you could benefit from switching Hitmontop for Tornadus. He helps versus trick room and ohko's just about anything that doesn't resist flying. Plus this would cover any need for HP Flying.

Tornadus @ flying gem
Trait: Prankster
Evs: 252 Hp/ 252 Atk/4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Acrobatics
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Substitute/protect

Another option could be Thundurus for a more special approach. You would just need to customize it to your liking. http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/thundurus/vgc2012

 

[blablage]

i liked the idea of a pransker tailwind poke
but either of them will just add to the team's general Rock weakness. :/
it would be 4 of them XD

 

[Lucifers Pride]

Hitmontop is just on of those Pokemon that is just almost impossible to replace as it's role is almost entirely unique to it and it alone, but that's just what I think.

Personally, I think you don't need to balance out the amount of special and physical attackers you have on your team. Changing it would disrupt the synergy you have going, but if you really think Intimidate is a problem, maybe try using a White Herb on Hitmontop. Yes the Power Drop is detrimental, but it will help amend for the weakness to other Intimidate users.

 

[Ignitrua]

If you follow my suggestion of Thunderbolt over Discharge on Zapdos, that still gets a 2HKO on Top. True, you don't get the OHKO after a CC, but the point remains.

As with TTar, I'd kinda forgotten about Mamo :p
A Choice set does seem fairly plausible, although you may have issues with that ol' Top + Latios combo. If you do choose to use it, I would heavily recommend Stone Edge, as that OHKO on the Genies and maybe Zapdos (verification please) is definitely noticeable. I mean, you're getting almost twice the damage of a Rock Slide.

 

[Ravix]

I'm pretty sure it OHKO's zapdos, rock slide is just nice to have. Whichever works for you.

To be honest, on this team at least, Salamance would do a better job than hitmontop. It doesn't really mesh well with this team. You also have Scizor to take out anyone who might be using rock type moves, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. If anything they are just really good bait, especially if you use SD + bug gem scizor. It'd give you a free turn to set up.

 

[The Knights of Wario Land]

You'll have to use Snow Cloak on Mamoswine for that set, as the only-legal Thick Fat Mamoswine at the moment can't learn Ice Shard or Icicle Spear, just saying.

 

[blablage]

I have changed zapdos discharge to thunderbolt and it worked great!
isometimes i miss the paralysis chances but it really better the power boost of thunderbolt XD

Scarf TTar its going good for now ( i havent faced a latios yet XD) but its annoying to play it in the last turns of the game when u cant swich moves

now that i see it salamance could be great for having a dragon counter XD
it still worth for an special atacker?

oh and thanks Ignitrua for teaching me how to put images XD

 

[Lucifers Pride]

Scarf Salamence is the best Salamence, and you can't have too scarfers. TTar should check all of the dragons except Kingdra and Haxorus. Haxorus is seldom scene and TTar should be kept in the back against rain teams to change weather halfway through.

 

[blablage]

well you have a point
and still i have mamoswine to conter some of them too except latios xD
talking about mamoswine

i guess that i will move all the HP Evs to the Speed, im having focus sash on him so Hp i dont think will be that important now. and besides, i will have more chances to hit fisrt to dragons and have a chance to flinch with icicle crash

i think lucifers was a little right about the balance between special atackers and psysical atackers, it hasnt workeed bad at all, the only problem its the opposing hitmontop (intimidate in general) XD

i think i need to grab some HP evs to Speed to fake out the other hitmontop before he fake outs me XD