I hear what you're saying, and I agree that defense means a lot, but I have do have other concerns. You mention 2020, and I'll agree that if Bubble AD shows up and LeBron plays like he's been playing for most of his games this season, then the Lakers can go toe to toe with anyone in the west. I just wonder if we're actually going to see that version of AD these playoffs. I also have doubts about some of the new additions. Russell and Beasley are good players, but it's worth mentioning that neither of them played well against the Grizzlies last year. The Wolves were blowing big leads, thanks in no small part to their poor play.
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Sports NBA Thread: 2022-2023 Season
- Thread starter Celticpride
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Fair points. They're still a new team and AD has gotten 3 years older and maybe more brittle.
The western conference is a bloodbath.
The western conference is a bloodbath.
That 2020 team also had the best record in the West, and in my opinion had different players that provided a lot that this current team doesn't have.
3 defensive lockdown guards: Rondo, Caruso, Caldwell-Pope and a decent 3 and D player even though he wasn't the hottest shooting wise I have to include Danny Green. (Fair mention to Kuzma who is just a good offensive player).
2023 comparison: Schroder (as you said defensive chops, where I have to say he just doesn't compare to any of the 4 above), Malik Beasley is decent I would say he's a better version of Danny Green from 2023, Austin Reeves is a good offensive player and a decent defensive player but nothing compared to the 3 lockdown defenders above. De'angelo Russell (Lol), and Lonnie Walker who is a decent defender but nothing compared to the 3 from 2023. Lebron is 3 years older and in my opinion not that good defensively (it is what it is), the backcourt players all that I listed are all better offensive players than every single one from 2020, but they didn't need offense they had Lebron's high usage playing the point in 2020. Now this is where it gets interesting Mo Bamba is a solid defender where if you compare him to Dwight and McGee I think he's on their level but is not that good of a rebounder for his size and to my knowledge has been injured for the last month, if he's completely healthy and has played games with the other guys I would say like okay solid defensive center similar to 2020 but I can't say that because I haven't seen enough of him on this team. Anthony Davis (in his current state) is a fantastic defensive player still but can't rebound as well as he used to which I think will be a determining factor which means I think Vanderbilt has to step it up.
Tldr; this roster is not like the one from 2020, that 2020 roster was much more well built than this current one. If this was the roster from the start of the season my opinion would be different but I just don't think with all the trades they did that they will mesh well in time.
3 defensive lockdown guards: Rondo, Caruso, Caldwell-Pope and a decent 3 and D player even though he wasn't the hottest shooting wise I have to include Danny Green. (Fair mention to Kuzma who is just a good offensive player).
2023 comparison: Schroder (as you said defensive chops, where I have to say he just doesn't compare to any of the 4 above), Malik Beasley is decent I would say he's a better version of Danny Green from 2023, Austin Reeves is a good offensive player and a decent defensive player but nothing compared to the 3 lockdown defenders above. De'angelo Russell (Lol), and Lonnie Walker who is a decent defender but nothing compared to the 3 from 2023. Lebron is 3 years older and in my opinion not that good defensively (it is what it is), the backcourt players all that I listed are all better offensive players than every single one from 2020, but they didn't need offense they had Lebron's high usage playing the point in 2020. Now this is where it gets interesting Mo Bamba is a solid defender where if you compare him to Dwight and McGee I think he's on their level but is not that good of a rebounder for his size and to my knowledge has been injured for the last month, if he's completely healthy and has played games with the other guys I would say like okay solid defensive center similar to 2020 but I can't say that because I haven't seen enough of him on this team. Anthony Davis (in his current state) is a fantastic defensive player still but can't rebound as well as he used to which I think will be a determining factor which means I think Vanderbilt has to step it up.
Tldr; this roster is not like the one from 2020, that 2020 roster was much more well built than this current one. If this was the roster from the start of the season my opinion would be different but I just don't think with all the trades they did that they will mesh well in time.
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I'm actually an anti-Laker guy, and this will probably be my first time since I can remember I'm defending the Lakers.
We can compare the roster player to player on a plethora of things but they are currently 10th
in defensive team effiency for the whole season just based on their play in the last 2 months. Whether they are better than the 2020 team in defense specifically is a bit of a non-sequitir to me. I don't think they need to be that team defensively to make it out the West. I can concede that they likely won't match that team defensively, but playing the best stretch of defense over a sample that doesn't even include Davis and LeBron means you have a damn good defensive identity. They also have a coach who coached the defense of the 2021 Bucks Championship. The schemes will be optimized at the very least too.
We can compare the roster player to player on a plethora of things but they are currently 10th
in defensive team effiency for the whole season just based on their play in the last 2 months. Whether they are better than the 2020 team in defense specifically is a bit of a non-sequitir to me. I don't think they need to be that team defensively to make it out the West. I can concede that they likely won't match that team defensively, but playing the best stretch of defense over a sample that doesn't even include Davis and LeBron means you have a damn good defensive identity. They also have a coach who coached the defense of the 2021 Bucks Championship. The schemes will be optimized at the very least too.
I think we're gonna learn a lot about the Lakers in their first round series as it'll likely be against, obviously, one of the top teams in the West with the possibility that they even get the 5 seed and play the Suns in R1. Regardless of who the opponent is (excluding the Suns, because if they beat the Suns in a series, the championship propaganda will be loud as hell and warranted quite frankly) winning that first series should likely symbolize to the league as well as those watching that this team is for real. The only area I am semi-concerned is the coaching matchups. As of late Darvin's lineups have been meshing well and are finally at a point where we have some consistency in rotations as well as guys getting minutes they deserve (Rui's play as of late). Assuming the bench gets shrunk as it usually does in the playoffs, Darvin and the coaching staff scheme correctly around obvious stars like Steph, KD, etc. and adjust accordingly, I really really like the Laker's chance as winning this thing.
The Dubs and the Suns are the only teams that I think can beat them in a series (in the West). This can surely age poorly if they lose to another team but that's a bet I'm willing to take.
I'd toss Denver in there maybe. Their defense isn't as good, but they're sort of a mirror. Underwhelming defensively, but crazy offense. Which center can dictate the pace more? I gotta see both in round 1.
Good news for you how?
I think I'm in the minority camp (im not too sure) where I don't want Kyrie to be a mav next year (He's a top 20 talent) but I think the money can go elsewhere where defense can be something to prioritize. Someone like Draymond Green who probably will not re-sign with the Warriors.
Dallas is not exactly an attractive FA destination based on history, and Kyrie walking basically means you gave up value for nothing. I see that as neutral news at best only if the person is that upset with Kyrie Irving... which the franchise wanted.
Who out there fits and wants to come to Dallas?
Also... jeez Jokic. Do I curse this team every time I compliment them?
Who out there fits and wants to come to Dallas?
Also... jeez Jokic. Do I curse this team every time I compliment them?
I think so lol.
But yes the Mavs never really get anyone which is true historically but I really think there's certain players that want the bag, like Draymond and I think playing with someone like Luka could work because you need a defensive force to be the identity of the team in order for them to be successful. I know Kyrie would basically walk for free (which is not good) but honestly its either him or Luka that will leave [Calling it now, this short 20 game stint has proved they just don't play well together].
What makes you think they didn't play well together? They didn't lose because of Kyrie. In fact, Kyrie had superior plus minus to Luka.
That's why I said calling it now. It's me going off on a prediction saying if this is a long term thing it won't work well together, I think individually they are 2 fantastic players, but I don't think Luka needs another ball handler. I think he needs more 3 and D players. The teams problem isn't the 2 players but it's the other guys and there's no way they're going to be able to get a world class defensive front court player for minimum salary. They need to drop money, and that's why I'm saying I think Kyrie (preferably) or Luka needs to go, but both of them can't stay together IMO. It's a salary issue.
I don't think they lose because of Kyrie I think they lose because of the "other guys"
I don't think they lose because of Kyrie I think they lose because of the "other guys"
I dunno if it's Kyrie or defensive-minded guys. Defense guys don't necessarily take that much of a salary, and paying Draymond lots of money at his age would reek of desperation to me. Dude has shown clear signs of losing some of that, and you'd probably prefer to go younger.
Though maybe Draymond realistically is the only option, but if it is, they're in a deep mess for giving up their only real defender like that.
Though maybe Draymond realistically is the only option, but if it is, they're in a deep mess for giving up their only real defender like that.
That Philly team was missing Maxey, but good performance from Miami overall. Sixers/Boston could still be a good series as both teams are among the top 5 in spot-up shooting. It's just a matter of how well Embiid/Harden's PnR works versus Boston’s perimeter shooting. I'd probably lean Boston only because of their history, but certainly not inconceivable for Philly.
Suns remain mostly an enigma for me. Those 8 teams weren't exactly impressive teams, so we won't get an accurate read on them until the playoffs. My primary concerns for them going in are their frontline size/defense, depth, and point-of-attack defense. Warriors/Suns would be a real doozy.
Suns remain mostly an enigma for me. Those 8 teams weren't exactly impressive teams, so we won't get an accurate read on them until the playoffs. My primary concerns for them going in are their frontline size/defense, depth, and point-of-attack defense. Warriors/Suns would be a real doozy.
Suns are resting Durant, Booker, and CP3 tonight. Seems likely that the Lakers pick up another win in their quest to make the playoffs.
as someone who watches majority of celtics games philly doesnt worry me at all. out of top five teams in east it'd be milwaukee > ny/cavs > philly. watching both the bucks and 76ers games recently were completely different.
vs bucks it was very obviously a fluke game (like us against OKC) and that won't happen again in playoffs. vs those guys the series hinges on the consistency of our halfcourt offense (and by extension tatum) and how well/consistently jrue and brook play. khris hasn't looked right in any game i've seen him in recently and the bucks outside shooting has looked bad outside of when he's cooking. pretty damn close to a 50/50 imo (and I wouldn't be surprised at all if losing homecourt comes back to bite us in game 7).
that game vs philly they were throwing everything they had at us and they still only won by two with embiid having one of the best games of the season and us not playing Jaylen and Rob. Smart isn't the defender he was in the past but having him and white to throw at harden and maxey is a super luxury and their guards have really struggled vs us in every match up. embiid could average 50 for the series and i still would favor us. Unless 2018 harden comes out of nowhere and goes nuclear i can't imagine a series vs philly going more than 5 or 6 games.
Udonis Haslem checks out of his final regular season game with 24 points. That was... not something I expected to see today.
he's had 3 points prior to that all season and played in 6 games so...very unexpected but he did it. I'll miss him, he was from a generation that doesn't really exist anymore
I expect a Toronto win tonight. They have more length to defend and attack smaller guys, force turnovers, and got a lot of bodies to throw at LaVine and DeRozan. Both teams suck at converting spot-up shots, but at least Toronto creates extra possessions. Only path I see for a Chicago win is individual performances from the aforementioned mixed with hot outside shooting.
LA should beat Minnesota but we've seen stranger results. They lose their best defensive guys, but playing KAT at the five can produce wonky results. LA should get by with the same exact strategy from the last regular season game: LeBron and AD just pound it inside. Especially LeBron with McDaniels gone. Dunno how Minnesota defends but they can hope KAT and Edwards shoot the lights out at least.
Edit: got the first game schedule wrong. It's actually Miami vs Atlanta, which is not all that interesting but perhaps it'll spice up all the Trae trading talks.
Spoelstra always mixes it up against Trae on defense. Miami hangs its hat on defense, and all Atlanta has to do is break it over 48 minutes. Difference between last year and this year is that they have a secondary playmaking guard. How effective Atlanta is at their secondary options will determine how their offense fairs against Miami.
LA should beat Minnesota but we've seen stranger results. They lose their best defensive guys, but playing KAT at the five can produce wonky results. LA should get by with the same exact strategy from the last regular season game: LeBron and AD just pound it inside. Especially LeBron with McDaniels gone. Dunno how Minnesota defends but they can hope KAT and Edwards shoot the lights out at least.
Edit: got the first game schedule wrong. It's actually Miami vs Atlanta, which is not all that interesting but perhaps it'll spice up all the Trae trading talks.
Spoelstra always mixes it up against Trae on defense. Miami hangs its hat on defense, and all Atlanta has to do is break it over 48 minutes. Difference between last year and this year is that they have a secondary playmaking guard. How effective Atlanta is at their secondary options will determine how their offense fairs against Miami.
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