Quick thoughts from laddering in the last two days: this meta feels relatively chaotic at present. Every good mon seems to have like 4-5 different sets which lead to you being caught off guard by weird stuff. It's all pretty offensive, but I have seen a couple balances from time to time. Magearna and Pheromosa feel like the top dogs to me, as well as a few different offensive Ghost-type options. I feel like we need to workshop the banlist a little bit as well. Here's a list of some of the best mons I've used and encountered, might be good to start scrutinizing.
This mon is broken for all of the same reasons it's broken in OU, so I don't feel the need to go in depth too much about it. Being able to pack varying levels of speed makes it unpredictable, on top of all the sets it can run. Scarf is actually able to outspeed everything. Specs is the same but with a very decent speed tier. Shift Gear sets can still feel basically unstoppable under Screens. Physical Shift Gear is still bad, but it's just good enough that you'll be caught off guard and lose to it. It might be better to just look in the OU subforum for discussion on whether Magearna is broken since most of the same arguments apply.
Probably one of the best offensive mons you can use. The best set imo is Impish HDB with max Speed and Attack, which gives you good offenses and physical bulk, letting you eat up priority and support with U-turn and Rapid Spin. A mon that ca pivot into something like Kartana once or twice while also outspeeding it is very useful. Pheromosa is probably the most splashable spinner. Its typical CB set can run Impish as well, as it stands to gain much more from that than running Adamant, Brave, or Timid depending on what split of attack and speed you want. Timid HDB has a niche of outspeeding max speed Shuckle at +1, which is useful for anti-leading it. I've seen Bold QD once or twice as well. Pheromosa has a lot of options, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows; its speed tier is comparatively worse, always being outsped by Jolly Spectrier, Timid Darm-G, Hasty Buzzwole, fast Aggron, Stakataka, and Shuckle, among others. It also has a bit of 4MSS, I've found; it really wants Throat Chop to hit Ghost types in this.
Lots of people seem to be running Dragapult, Cursola, Aegislash, or Blacephalon as their speedy Ghost types, but Spectrier is honestly still better in my opinion. Base 145 (with Jolly) is a very nice speed tier that comes at the expense of some power, but it's still not fast enough to beat the really fast stuff. A big thing in this meta are that Blissey and Chansey are banned, which is huge for it. That isn't to say that there are no Normal types at all, but it often can spam Shadow Ball to clean up lategame. Also sometimes you see people running physical Sets on this mon, which are pretty bad. It's still very good, but a comparatively less impressive speed tier and more competition in the role of offensive Ghost make it not seem as overpowered as it could be, in my eyes.
It's still very matchup-fishy and not all that much better than in standard play. Jolly Scarf has similar offenses to the Specs set Regieleki can run in standard play, so it's not all that new, but the more interesting stuff occurs when Regieleki runs Specs or Band. They can hit extreme levels of power with their Electric moves and basically eliminate all defensive counterplay that is not straight-up immune to Electric, but this comes with the big flaw of having an average speed tier. They are basically only good with strict support (Sticky Web) and can be a letdown in such an offensive meta. Band is a bit better because it has a very strong Extreme Speed, but it's still a bit inconsistent due to a lot of viable fast Normal resists / immunities. Because of that Regieleki feels like a lower priority threat to me.
Speaking of matchup fishing, here's Dracovish. Basically the same as in standard but with the ability to hit 100 base speed, letting it be very fast with a Scarf set. This thing is probably unfair for the same reasons as in standard play, but it doesn't really feel like it when the meta is as offensive as it is.
Annoying mon that seems to be on every team. It's usually fast, but sometimes it's slow and just kills you with an attack. It's generally physically bulky, but sometimes it's specially bulky and catches you off guard. This contributes to a level of unpredictability that can make the first turn a bit of a gamble, depending on what your Shuckle counterplay is. Shuckle is a big reason why Sticky Web teams are good, and why having good hazard control is necessary. It honestly feels a little bit centralizing, but there is plenty of oft-unexplored counterplay to it.
A lot of people are running Glastrier, but I think (Timid) Darm-G is overall better due to higher initial power and speed and the ability to be a fast offensive pivot. I feel as though CB or Boots (great against Sticky Web) are probably best, might need to give Brave Scarf a try. The significantly lower power leads to this thing feeling less unfair than in standard play.
Basically unchanged from standard play (Hasty), which still means that it's pretty taxing to switch in to outside of physically defensive Fairy types. A strong Sucker Punch helps it keep a lot of speedy mons in check. This mon is basically unused right now, but no, it still seems quite good. Many of the balance cores it eats alive are conspicuously absent, however.
Unfair under Trick Room. Lonely Stakataka in this is almost as strong as Choice Band Stakataka in standard play, to put it in perspective. It's capable of doing things like easily 2HKOing Impish max defense Landorus-T after Intimidate with Gyro Ball, for example. Priority is basically the only way to stop it; luckily something like Azumarill can more than handle it. It also sometimes runs a fast set which is imo inferior to Aggron. Usually you can tell which set Stakataka is running from team preview, so it's not likely you're going to be caught off guard by it.
A good set for this mon, I think, is Hasty SD with 29 attack IVs and no Attack investment. This is similar to the Timid Kartana meme from standard play, but with notably higher initial speed and attack. It tends to thrive in a very offensive environment like this, as well, as the speed boosts make it harder to revenge kill. Overall, Kartana is much of the same. 131 speed tier is okay, but not quite enough for some of the faster stuff. Pheromosa in particular always proves useful against this mon. Sometimes you see Calm Kartana, which, once you scout it, is very passive and easily taken advantage of. Pretty okay special wall, but doesn't do much back and is exploitable.
Weird sets playing around with the bulk stats are overall inferior to just putting the offense you're not using into your speed, by my reckoning. With a Jolly nature, you can retain your mixed bulk in Shield form, letting you set up an SD or tank a hit, then when you go into Sword form, you gain a whole bunch of speed and can commence sweeping.
With 80 base attack it's like 30% stronger than in standard play, almost like a free Life Orb tacked on. This lets it pick off certain things easier when it's at +6, but it helps even more as a revenge killer. CB Azumarill has proven very useful to check weakened offensive mons. It’s stronger than Crawdaunt and probably more viable than Dracovish right now just cause priority is very appreciated.
There’s plenty of other stuff that is roughly unchanged from standard but still viable, like Dragapult (probably deserves its own section but can’t be bothered), Cinderace, Heatran, Landorus-T, Rillaboom, Tornadus-T, Corviknight, Tapu Fini, Hydreigon, Tapu Lele, and Clefable. Generally these mons gain a bit of speed or bulk which helps then out but is not a gamechanger.
This mon is broken for all of the same reasons it's broken in OU, so I don't feel the need to go in depth too much about it. Being able to pack varying levels of speed makes it unpredictable, on top of all the sets it can run. Scarf is actually able to outspeed everything. Specs is the same but with a very decent speed tier. Shift Gear sets can still feel basically unstoppable under Screens. Physical Shift Gear is still bad, but it's just good enough that you'll be caught off guard and lose to it. It might be better to just look in the OU subforum for discussion on whether Magearna is broken since most of the same arguments apply.
Probably one of the best offensive mons you can use. The best set imo is Impish HDB with max Speed and Attack, which gives you good offenses and physical bulk, letting you eat up priority and support with U-turn and Rapid Spin. A mon that ca pivot into something like Kartana once or twice while also outspeeding it is very useful. Pheromosa is probably the most splashable spinner. Its typical CB set can run Impish as well, as it stands to gain much more from that than running Adamant, Brave, or Timid depending on what split of attack and speed you want. Timid HDB has a niche of outspeeding max speed Shuckle at +1, which is useful for anti-leading it. I've seen Bold QD once or twice as well. Pheromosa has a lot of options, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows; its speed tier is comparatively worse, always being outsped by Jolly Spectrier, Timid Darm-G, Hasty Buzzwole, fast Aggron, Stakataka, and Shuckle, among others. It also has a bit of 4MSS, I've found; it really wants Throat Chop to hit Ghost types in this.
Lots of people seem to be running Dragapult, Cursola, Aegislash, or Blacephalon as their speedy Ghost types, but Spectrier is honestly still better in my opinion. Base 145 (with Jolly) is a very nice speed tier that comes at the expense of some power, but it's still not fast enough to beat the really fast stuff. A big thing in this meta are that Blissey and Chansey are banned, which is huge for it. That isn't to say that there are no Normal types at all, but it often can spam Shadow Ball to clean up lategame. Also sometimes you see people running physical Sets on this mon, which are pretty bad. It's still very good, but a comparatively less impressive speed tier and more competition in the role of offensive Ghost make it not seem as overpowered as it could be, in my eyes.
It's still very matchup-fishy and not all that much better than in standard play. Jolly Scarf has similar offenses to the Specs set Regieleki can run in standard play, so it's not all that new, but the more interesting stuff occurs when Regieleki runs Specs or Band. They can hit extreme levels of power with their Electric moves and basically eliminate all defensive counterplay that is not straight-up immune to Electric, but this comes with the big flaw of having an average speed tier. They are basically only good with strict support (Sticky Web) and can be a letdown in such an offensive meta. Band is a bit better because it has a very strong Extreme Speed, but it's still a bit inconsistent due to a lot of viable fast Normal resists / immunities. Because of that Regieleki feels like a lower priority threat to me.
Speaking of matchup fishing, here's Dracovish. Basically the same as in standard but with the ability to hit 100 base speed, letting it be very fast with a Scarf set. This thing is probably unfair for the same reasons as in standard play, but it doesn't really feel like it when the meta is as offensive as it is.
Annoying mon that seems to be on every team. It's usually fast, but sometimes it's slow and just kills you with an attack. It's generally physically bulky, but sometimes it's specially bulky and catches you off guard. This contributes to a level of unpredictability that can make the first turn a bit of a gamble, depending on what your Shuckle counterplay is. Shuckle is a big reason why Sticky Web teams are good, and why having good hazard control is necessary. It honestly feels a little bit centralizing, but there is plenty of oft-unexplored counterplay to it.
A lot of people are running Glastrier, but I think (Timid) Darm-G is overall better due to higher initial power and speed and the ability to be a fast offensive pivot. I feel as though CB or Boots (great against Sticky Web) are probably best, might need to give Brave Scarf a try. The significantly lower power leads to this thing feeling less unfair than in standard play.
Basically unchanged from standard play (Hasty), which still means that it's pretty taxing to switch in to outside of physically defensive Fairy types. A strong Sucker Punch helps it keep a lot of speedy mons in check. This mon is basically unused right now, but no, it still seems quite good. Many of the balance cores it eats alive are conspicuously absent, however.
Unfair under Trick Room. Lonely Stakataka in this is almost as strong as Choice Band Stakataka in standard play, to put it in perspective. It's capable of doing things like easily 2HKOing Impish max defense Landorus-T after Intimidate with Gyro Ball, for example. Priority is basically the only way to stop it; luckily something like Azumarill can more than handle it. It also sometimes runs a fast set which is imo inferior to Aggron. Usually you can tell which set Stakataka is running from team preview, so it's not likely you're going to be caught off guard by it.
A good set for this mon, I think, is Hasty SD with 29 attack IVs and no Attack investment. This is similar to the Timid Kartana meme from standard play, but with notably higher initial speed and attack. It tends to thrive in a very offensive environment like this, as well, as the speed boosts make it harder to revenge kill. Overall, Kartana is much of the same. 131 speed tier is okay, but not quite enough for some of the faster stuff. Pheromosa in particular always proves useful against this mon. Sometimes you see Calm Kartana, which, once you scout it, is very passive and easily taken advantage of. Pretty okay special wall, but doesn't do much back and is exploitable.
Weird sets playing around with the bulk stats are overall inferior to just putting the offense you're not using into your speed, by my reckoning. With a Jolly nature, you can retain your mixed bulk in Shield form, letting you set up an SD or tank a hit, then when you go into Sword form, you gain a whole bunch of speed and can commence sweeping.
With 80 base attack it's like 30% stronger than in standard play, almost like a free Life Orb tacked on. This lets it pick off certain things easier when it's at +6, but it helps even more as a revenge killer. CB Azumarill has proven very useful to check weakened offensive mons. It’s stronger than Crawdaunt and probably more viable than Dracovish right now just cause priority is very appreciated.
There’s plenty of other stuff that is roughly unchanged from standard but still viable, like Dragapult (probably deserves its own section but can’t be bothered), Cinderace, Heatran, Landorus-T, Rillaboom, Tornadus-T, Corviknight, Tapu Fini, Hydreigon, Tapu Lele, and Clefable. Generally these mons gain a bit of speed or bulk which helps then out but is not a gamechanger.
Last edited:
(naive)
(naive)
(this shouldnt be here but.... timid)
(timid)
(jolly)
(jolly/naive)
(jolly)
