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Tournament National Dex World Cup IV - Format Discussion Thread
- Thread starter R8
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Lower tiers are always a pain in the ass in WCOP formats due to you having to find players for them + no real teamwork going on since no one can really help (or busy with another tier) unless you luckily have 2 people who know that certain tier. I'd probably settle with 5 SV 2 SS 1 Mono as my choice. SV is really popular on ladder so getting good at the tier is fairly straight forward and you get plenty of practice by just laddering. SS and Mono have communities popular enough where they can probably work. Really sad we can't do 8 SVs it really would be a good way for everyone to be motivated to want to work together.
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDDoubles (Or SVNDOU?)
SV NDMonotype (Or SVNDOU?)
SV NDUbers (OrSVNDOU?)
edit: i guess u could also put a ss slot over one of these three but i don't think this is a very popular take anyway, and i personally don't feel like it'd be very good.
In my opinion we should stick to 8 slot, as i do not think there is any guarantee regions can field 10 slots + subs. I get the appeal of 10 slots but i believe 8 slots would be the better choice here, for the sake of fairness and competitiveness.
That being said, while i definitively see the merits of going all OUs, i think the three other tiers i listed above should be seriously considered. I think most people already agree that monotype should be in so i won't spend arguments on this one, but here are my thoughts about the other two:
-I am confident Natdex Doubles can offer very good players to each region, and has a playerbase very similar to NDMono's in terms of size. On top of this i believe the differences between doubles and singles in general are honestly often super overstated/overestimated, and imo any good singles players can quickly get around how doubles work once they learn about the most important interactions specific to doubles (like fake out and tect stuff or tr/tailwind/misc speed control shenanigans). If i may bring personal experience into this, I myself started to learn to play doubles, and i can attest that the transition really is far from being as hard as people sometimes picture it to be, i feel like it's just a lot more about positioning. It's different, but fundamentally mons are still mons. I also think it makes sense for a team to be rewarded for having players that are familiar with doubles environments.
-While i think there can be a legitimate concern about filling the NDUbers slot for some regions, i feel like it's generally a quite easy tier to get into due to its centralised nature. I'll be completely honest, despite being an ndubers advocate i'm not completely sure if ndwc is the right place to give it exposure, however i don't think it would be a huge issue at all to have it since i don't think there is as much things to learn to get into the tier compared to other lower tiers, especially if you can get someone already familiar with ubers formats.
In a nutshell, i think it would be better to keep the identity NDWC III was aiming for, as in something mostly about OU formats, and let lower tiers representation to NDPL. That being said, lowers tiers representation is still something important in my opinion: to lower tiers fans reading this, worry not, Grand Slam is not forgotten and I will make sure it happens again this year.
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDDoubles (Or SVNDOU?)
SV NDMonotype (Or SVNDOU?)
SV NDUbers (OrSVNDOU?)
edit: i guess u could also put a ss slot over one of these three but i don't think this is a very popular take anyway, and i personally don't feel like it'd be very good.
In my opinion we should stick to 8 slot, as i do not think there is any guarantee regions can field 10 slots + subs. I get the appeal of 10 slots but i believe 8 slots would be the better choice here, for the sake of fairness and competitiveness.
That being said, while i definitively see the merits of going all OUs, i think the three other tiers i listed above should be seriously considered. I think most people already agree that monotype should be in so i won't spend arguments on this one, but here are my thoughts about the other two:
-I am confident Natdex Doubles can offer very good players to each region, and has a playerbase very similar to NDMono's in terms of size. On top of this i believe the differences between doubles and singles in general are honestly often super overstated/overestimated, and imo any good singles players can quickly get around how doubles work once they learn about the most important interactions specific to doubles (like fake out and tect stuff or tr/tailwind/misc speed control shenanigans). If i may bring personal experience into this, I myself started to learn to play doubles, and i can attest that the transition really is far from being as hard as people sometimes picture it to be, i feel like it's just a lot more about positioning. It's different, but fundamentally mons are still mons. I also think it makes sense for a team to be rewarded for having players that are familiar with doubles environments.
-While i think there can be a legitimate concern about filling the NDUbers slot for some regions, i feel like it's generally a quite easy tier to get into due to its centralised nature. I'll be completely honest, despite being an ndubers advocate i'm not completely sure if ndwc is the right place to give it exposure, however i don't think it would be a huge issue at all to have it since i don't think there is as much things to learn to get into the tier compared to other lower tiers, especially if you can get someone already familiar with ubers formats.
In a nutshell, i think it would be better to keep the identity NDWC III was aiming for, as in something mostly about OU formats, and let lower tiers representation to NDPL. That being said, lowers tiers representation is still something important in my opinion: to lower tiers fans reading this, worry not, Grand Slam is not forgotten and I will make sure it happens again this year.
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Me personally am a fan of including ND lower tiers as well following previous NDPL format. 10 slots are def needed for ties and tiebreakers which are an essential part of team tours. Only problem with 10 slots might be as stated lack of players for the region which has def been seen across many other lower tier wcop as well. Guess we just live with it as usual to perhaps combine regions to meet player requirements. Will help promote more slots for teams as well. Lower tier representation!!!!
8 slots with a heavy focus on OU is probably the best way forward, that ensures the most competitive teams and highest quality games. 10 slots will be hard for a lot of regions to field competitive rosters once u include subs too. we have PL for lower tiers so this tour should be mostly OU focused.
combining regions for the sake of 2 more slots is just not realistic, as then some of those regions that will be forced to be combined already have enough players, and some just dont want to combine for the sake of saturation. it would also just make the tour much smaller than last year and be taking 2 steps back in terms of regions expanding, there is 0 logical reason to have 10 slots, all it would do would butcher half the teams and people from smaller regions in terms of players less enthusiastic about the tour. the other option is also merging regions that lack players woth each other, which would be even more dire since these regions are from all around the world, would for one defeat the point of a world cup ajd for another hurt those teams even more due to lack of cohesiveness with one another.
1yr
formerly I❤BerryKind
Combining regions for 2 more slots is so bad not only are you making it harder on the managers by forcing them to rework entire rosters but it’s so unnecessary allat work for some boring meta and it doesn’t matter if 2 more slots get promoted if half of the teams have to go lol. KEEP THE OLD WCOP FORMAT PLZ!!!!!
I like the inclusion of non-ou tiers in team tours but guys we need to be realistic here. 10 slots and anything mimicking the NDPL format is in no way fair to every region and as was said above, reworking your entire roster or merging regions so clicker_4_hire87 can play NatDex RU with little experience is really annoying and makes this tour feels way less serious than it should be. The best we can have right now is like 8 slots x3 SV OU / x2 SS OU / Ubers / Mono / DOU and even then there is a big push to make this CG OU focused so that's probably a stretch as well. The old world cup format is fine enough. Put DOU over Ubers if you think that is better I don't really care.
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