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Ubers National Dex Ubers Metagame Discussion (active survey @ post #339)
- Thread starter entrocefalo
- Start date
bill.is.me
Banned deucer.
Idk what you're giving your giratina but whatever it is I need some for mine toowalls everything but
even without a curse and
can take care of that.
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 433-510 (85.9 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Meant
which i guess isn't really found on stall. But even to get to that and ko normal tina is going to leave you with one TR turn in a best case scenario ( switch to , another turn to get to +2 and then most likely 2 turns to ko since these teams almost never run hazards). This leaves you at 82% and in practise you'll be lower as hazards are likely going to be up and you probably are probably going to get dragon tailed or roared out forcing you to repeat the sequence. It will chip luna enough for to easily finish it off and that will take care of every other mon on the trick room team. The turns it would take to repeat that sequence with
/ 
healing back to full can also be used to rest and heal bell it 
/
which more or less leaves you in the previous situation. doesn't really need to do more than phase or buy a few turns of chip damage to let find room to solo the team. All it really needs is a free turn to get a curse which, again, is not that difficult to do. Also once you get one curse you can probably get a second.252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 174-205 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 54.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Once it has a single curse it can curse again freely if TR is up truly sealing the deal barring crits as luna will kill itself over time even w/o
attacking (press is a 2hko anyways). The stall user can also just sac other mons while doing more than enough chip damage if not outright killing luna to preserve 's HP since that and to an extent are really the only mons that actually matter in a game v TR. Everything else is just going to be either getting up hazards or sac fodder for the most part so sacing them to weaken luna is really not an issue since if luna doesn't KO 
or 
or whatever other of the three offensive mons you run will anyways. Even tera normal is again reasonable to play around.252+ Atk Guts Tera Normal Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 232-274 (46 - 54.3%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
And it isn't like
can slot it in thunder punch or something else to deal with because then it is completely walled by . This also doesn't factor in that the user can simply run 0 speed IV to guarentee a curse after sacking something v . TR can never be more than fringe viable imo because if it becomes more than that the effects are too unhealthy it it will be neutered via a ban of some sort.
bill.is.me
Banned deucer.
Yea I agree 100%, it's fun for sure but obviously niche. I was mostly joking lol.
But you're assuming you can rest + heal bell in the time for ursa to be healed which is kinda just... not true.
And unless you're running foul play they can forgo setting TR since you don't actually do much damage back.
You essentially need to hope your dozo handles it and use your giratina to slow it down. Which too be fair isn't horrible since once your dozo sets up vs TR it kinda just sweeps only really scared of the setters special attacks. So yea TR just doesn't have everything it needs to support ursa stall destruction in the state it is currently used unless the stall player is like... bad lol. Like if you use melm to chunck dozo then force it out with a special attack you can win and that's pretty much the wincon lmao but good play can get around that especially if you forgo trick room to get more time letting them just outspeed and will-o.
But you're assuming you can rest + heal bell in the time for ursa to be healed which is kinda just... not true.
And unless you're running foul play they can forgo setting TR since you don't actually do much damage back.
You essentially need to hope your dozo handles it and use your giratina to slow it down. Which too be fair isn't horrible since once your dozo sets up vs TR it kinda just sweeps only really scared of the setters special attacks. So yea TR just doesn't have everything it needs to support ursa stall destruction in the state it is currently used unless the stall player is like... bad lol. Like if you use melm to chunck dozo then force it out with a special attack you can win and that's pretty much the wincon lmao but good play can get around that especially if you forgo trick room to get more time letting them just outspeed and will-o.
Um how do you counter mega ttar?Now that the "big bads" are banned, I'm sure everyone's wondering the same thing: What's the New Big Bad?
Have no fear, I will illuminate you all!
It is Arceus!
Behold the latest product of Game Freak's buffs!
Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Force / Earthquake
- Taunt
In Gen 9, Arceus gained Taunt and Dragon Dance. Why? I don't know! What I do know is that there is no consistent counterplay to this strategy (outside of using multiple Unaware Pokemon).
Now, shall we ask ourselves, how do we stop such a monster?
The answer: absolutely not. This monster defeats all. It cannot be stopped. It cannot be whirlwinded. It cannot be ditto'd. It cannot be revenge killed by scarfers of any sort. It cannot be killed by priority. It cannot even be stopped by swapping between a Normal Type and a Ghost type!
It sets up in the face of all who attempt to check it. All it needs is one dragon dance to clean with Shadow Force. When you bring in your priority mon, lo and behold: it is now Ghost type and immune to your silly Extreme Speed. When you bring in your Ditto, it will simply Extreme Speed your Ditto. When you attempt to phase it or set up alongside it, in comes Taunt and more Dragon Dances.
If (when) it gets two dragon dances, it can no longer be stopped defensively. All but max defense Necrozma-Dusk-Mane are OHKOed by +2 STAB Shadow Force. Koraidon is ohkoed by the same Shadow Force, and outsped at +2 even if it is running Scarf.
Earthquake trades the power of Shadow Force for more sweeping consistency, hitting everything that resists Extreme Speed at least neutrally (outside of the rare Giratina-O). The Ghost Typing alone is enough to flip the game into Arceus's favor.
Arceus is coming for you. And when you least expect it.... it will Terastalyze into Ghost and run away with the game! Beware!
So ya
Why are you worried about countering an unviable Mon?
wait but I'm pretty sure mttar ain't even viable with Calyrex-S gone. The real question is, how do you counter bulky phazers? Pdon and Zygarde (sort of lugia too but that's K.Oed by Shadow Force if you don't have multiscale up) can dragon tail u out. Also, Koraidon heavily pressures both said arceus and mttar. Arceus can Tera Ghost, but what if you use up tera? You're throwing away win conditions with pokemon like Tera Xerneas (who can easily run away with games after tera) and Tera Koraidon, who has no real counter in my eyes (by tera Koraidon flips matchups vs Chien Pao, Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas) this also means you can't revert back to a normal type, so pokemon like Marshadow and Sucker Punch users like Urshifu-S and Kingambit can revenge kill you. Don't forget Yveltal either-both Sucker Punch and Foul Play exist in the movepool of such an excellent support pokemon, threatening Tera Ghost Arceus.
You all have any Blissey sample builds for this format?
bill.is.me
Banned deucer.
Just use something like https://pokepast.es/c00d6e0a253dd9c0
If you wanted confide could be swapped for something like rocks or teleport to make it more useful for a balance team but idk why you'd wanna use blissey on something like that.
If you wanted confide could be swapped for something like rocks or teleport to make it more useful for a balance team but idk why you'd wanna use blissey on something like that.
Now in the correct thread. . .
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-1-terastallization.3724259/post-9700525
Terastal remains legal in National Dex Ubers!
On a completely unrelated note (I swear. . . ), I am announcing my departure. I will be stepping down from my current role as tier leader and council member. When I initially joined, my intention was to assist in the setup of this tier, but because this metagame's so fun I started taking on more and more responsibilities and ended up leading for over half a year. . . Sadly, I'm just too busy IRL to keep investing time into this
A huge thank you to all the players and the incredible National Dex moderation team, especially R8, Kaede, and Jho, for their invaluable contributions in making this tier a resounding success. Together, we have established a solid foundation that I am confident will continue to thrive under Eledyr's capable leadership for the rest of this generation.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-1-terastallization.3724259/post-9700525
Terastal remains legal in National Dex Ubers!
On a completely unrelated note (I swear. . . ), I am announcing my departure. I will be stepping down from my current role as tier leader and council member. When I initially joined, my intention was to assist in the setup of this tier, but because this metagame's so fun I started taking on more and more responsibilities and ended up leading for over half a year. . . Sadly, I'm just too busy IRL to keep investing time into this
A huge thank you to all the players and the incredible National Dex moderation team, especially R8, Kaede, and Jho, for their invaluable contributions in making this tier a resounding success. Together, we have established a solid foundation that I am confident will continue to thrive under Eledyr's capable leadership for the rest of this generation.
ok so tera stays another suspect that ends with a massive L towards competitive play and all that
anyway we all know korai, xern and zygod have two days left at best but this thing also scares me:
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 136 SpD / 120 Spe OR 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
yeah, it's pdon. double dance don really seems unstoppable with tera around, as tera ground blades hits just the right benchmarks even ignoring the incoming zygarde ban: it now 2HKOes even the most defensive arcs, lives a groundceus judgment comfortably and all they can do is try to slot in wisp (which is useless against base pdon, which can predict a wisp to sd in your face for free). it's EVed to either outrun scarfers in xern's speed tier, or absolute max speed if scarf flutter mane proves to be popular (good rker to dd unec and other stuff). oh yeah and tina also has to watch out for +2 stone edge because it actually does some good damage.
other stuff:
darks are really good and zacc abuses them, not much to say. it also seems to have a great matchup against most scarfers with mr. oripulse flareblitz gone and is a great tera abuser
tera ghost polter marsh is goated and with zygarde gone it 2HKOes literally everything no joke bar from obscure ass tera types/mons. sneak still does sneak stuff and xern going is always nice.
confirmed D-rank shitmon now lmao
anyway we all know korai, xern and zygod have two days left at best but this thing also scares me:
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 136 SpD / 120 Spe OR 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
yeah, it's pdon. double dance don really seems unstoppable with tera around, as tera ground blades hits just the right benchmarks even ignoring the incoming zygarde ban: it now 2HKOes even the most defensive arcs, lives a groundceus judgment comfortably and all they can do is try to slot in wisp (which is useless against base pdon, which can predict a wisp to sd in your face for free). it's EVed to either outrun scarfers in xern's speed tier, or absolute max speed if scarf flutter mane proves to be popular (good rker to dd unec and other stuff). oh yeah and tina also has to watch out for +2 stone edge because it actually does some good damage.
other stuff:
darks are really good and zacc abuses them, not much to say. it also seems to have a great matchup against most scarfers with mr. oripulse flareblitz gone and is a great tera abuser
tera ghost polter marsh is goated and with zygarde gone it 2HKOes literally everything no joke bar from obscure ass tera types/mons. sneak still does sneak stuff and xern going is always nice.
confirmed D-rank shitmon now lmao
That was already discussed in private, so I'll be short here, to say a big thank you for your investment as co-leader all this time Guard
Meanwhile, I want to welcome entrocefalo as the newest Natdex Ubers co-leader! I'm sure he'll be good in this job and that we'll work great together
Free the Tera list. Most people who wanted action wanted it only restricted. Who cares about what the out of touch Smogon Policy shills say when they don't play this tier. As for the list its only Xerneas, Zygarde, Koraidon, and maybe Palkia-O are a issue all the rest are either a bad match up your team faced or you burst it out too early and then you couldn't do anything when your opponent's arrived.
Edit: Oh and this.
Edit: Oh and this.
bill.is.me
Banned deucer.
sigh... yet again tera stays legal and we end up banning all the best abusers. The fact that anyone still defends this confuses me. but... I'm not gonna pretend I have anything to say that hasn't been said a million times on this topic.
I was working on a pretty speculative post on the future of this tier but I couldn't make it feel nice and fluid. If korai xern and zygod actually get banned and tera stays I'm not sure I'll keep the motivation to play this tier. "oh no marshadow switched in too bad I can't switch into it guess It's time to let something die" We lose xerneas as a option for a scarfer to revenge it so like now what? zacian scarf yveltal etern or lose? Zacian just got in late game, my pdon is chipped what's my plan to revenge kill it? well I'm running scarf yveltal to not lose to marshadow so uhh...
It just feels like so many threats are just gonna be revenge killed by exactly zacian one of like 2 not bad scarfers orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (and this is how it goes for most things since the not shit scarfers are all sub base 100) guessing and getting it right with tera. And honestly I don't wanna play a game like that. Like an arceus ground sets up a DD, what do I do? Well you can tera grass or risk a tera flying despite their stone edge. Happy days you didn't instantly lose to one pokemon!, but quite unfortunately for you they have a ultra necrozma in the back and your dark type is yveltal who dies to their stone edge. Or in the even worse alternate reality you tera flying they stone edge you die, or you tera steel or whatever like a yveltal they EQ and you die.
Or in another world you had a lunala over you yveltal but quite unfortunately for alternate you they swapped teams on a whim and where running marshadow offense. You have no way to take it's sheer damage output and struggle to revenge kill it forcing you into a senario where you have to guess with tera. will they read tera dark and kill or not? alternatively you tera your scarf lunala to avoid any 50/50s since now you take shadow sneak but now how do you handle their necrozma?
Just thinking about the mons that we can't use scarf koraidon to check and the power they have with tera... Idk. Maybe i'm overrating. maybe it won't be this bad. But I don't trust that. I don't see a way this tier doesn't devolve into a polarized mess of either stall or offense. I just don't see how balance can handle all these threats without resorting to tera garbage.
But hey that's enough for me soapboxing lol. If non of this comes to pass then uhh... i'll cry about being dumb... then have fun playing a non ruined tier.
I was working on a pretty speculative post on the future of this tier but I couldn't make it feel nice and fluid. If korai xern and zygod actually get banned and tera stays I'm not sure I'll keep the motivation to play this tier. "oh no marshadow switched in too bad I can't switch into it guess It's time to let something die" We lose xerneas as a option for a scarfer to revenge it so like now what? zacian scarf yveltal etern or lose? Zacian just got in late game, my pdon is chipped what's my plan to revenge kill it? well I'm running scarf yveltal to not lose to marshadow so uhh...
It just feels like so many threats are just gonna be revenge killed by exactly zacian one of like 2 not bad scarfers orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (and this is how it goes for most things since the not shit scarfers are all sub base 100) guessing and getting it right with tera. And honestly I don't wanna play a game like that. Like an arceus ground sets up a DD, what do I do? Well you can tera grass or risk a tera flying despite their stone edge. Happy days you didn't instantly lose to one pokemon!, but quite unfortunately for you they have a ultra necrozma in the back and your dark type is yveltal who dies to their stone edge. Or in the even worse alternate reality you tera flying they stone edge you die, or you tera steel or whatever like a yveltal they EQ and you die.
Or in another world you had a lunala over you yveltal but quite unfortunately for alternate you they swapped teams on a whim and where running marshadow offense. You have no way to take it's sheer damage output and struggle to revenge kill it forcing you into a senario where you have to guess with tera. will they read tera dark and kill or not? alternatively you tera your scarf lunala to avoid any 50/50s since now you take shadow sneak but now how do you handle their necrozma?
Just thinking about the mons that we can't use scarf koraidon to check and the power they have with tera... Idk. Maybe i'm overrating. maybe it won't be this bad. But I don't trust that. I don't see a way this tier doesn't devolve into a polarized mess of either stall or offense. I just don't see how balance can handle all these threats without resorting to tera garbage.
But hey that's enough for me soapboxing lol. If non of this comes to pass then uhh... i'll cry about being dumb... then have fun playing a non ruined tier.
Okay, now that Tera is staying I may as well comment the problem mons:
Any remotely viable team has at least two checks to this to nobody's surprise, Tera Fire allows Koraidon to get a nuclear STAB alongside sun, and while
exists, it's not too difficult to overwhelm with SD + Low Kick, especially as Desolate Land also triggers Orichalcum Pulse, so even if it's forced to switch out to set its weather later and blow holes more efficiently, nuking P-Don in itself is opening a wide hole for other mons to abuse. 
is also a potent answer, but Koraidon can retain momentum against it with U-Turn or just nuke it on the spot with Z-Outrage. So far you're obligated to guess what set Koraidon is running as otherwise it can nuke a check and ease sweeping.
Personally I've been running
(Fairy) lately, and it has worked quite nicely to invalidate offensively pivoting Koraidons, while also doubling as a check to stuff like and stuff like 
and in a pinch with Tera Ground, although it struggles with SD Tera Fire Flare Blitz, especially with the mind game of having to either KO it with Fairy STAB or Ground coverage, as picking the wrong move can cost the match.
Uber's equivalent of
right here. Geomancy in itself pushes this to the border already if it wasn't for stuff like , and being common answers, except it can nowadays just brute force past them with the right Tera type. Electric ensures a OHKO on Ho-Oh with Thunderbolt after a Geomancy while also giving a far better match-up against Steels, meanwhile Tera Ground gives a better match-up against Primal Groudon, but at least it's forced to run Hidden Power Ground on such sets over Tera Blast as the deer is dexit'd. still works as a hard-check, especially as a paralyzed Xerneas has about a 50% chance to fail Geomancy out of requiring two turns not being para hax'd, but it's hard to fit Blissey in general as it's naturally very passive.
Scarf sets aren't unheard of either, but TBH those are the most tame sets, especially as local caveman dragon
also runs Scarf fairly often and can easily chip it over time.
Oh yes, anyone that has tried ladder for a while knows how degenerate this snake can be. Zygarde is one of the few Pokémon in general that can afford setup and crippling checks on the same set out of only requiring a single attacking move to sweep (Thousand Arrows). Tera Fairy allows Ziggy to remove any of its relevant weaknesses to find even sturdy checks like
as setup fodder, it can even afford running Rest and just patiently wait to keep sweeping afterwards against teams without a potent special wallbreaker, which are inconsistent sometimes out of Glare, and I don't need to explain that the only mons that don't mind Glare (Electrics) dislike Thousand Arrows.
Arceus does the usual stuff, being the equivalent of
over here glueing all sorts of teams, and filling countless offensive and defensive niches with its high stats and movepool and item removal immunity. But Arceus-Normal sticks out a bit as Extreme Killer benefits a lot from Teras, Tera Normal means that Arceus gets a surprising offensive boost and can clean teams without a faster Ghost-type, which are rather uncommon especially since 
already got banned by being dumb with Teras. has to deal with a mind-game as picking the wrong move can cost you the mon and probably the match, while 
can't KO Arceus from full and has terrible physical bulk (even less than 
).
A hard-counter to the standard set exists with (namely, it's immune to Extreme Speed and Earthquake), but Arceus has been running Ghost coverage lately specifically for it, let alone Tera Ghost too, and so overall even with the best options Arceus has quite limited counterplay and can easily pick it from the teambuilder. Note that I don't advocate to banning all Arceus formes, as much 
has each forme tiered individually, and I feel that Arceus being forced to run Tera Normal to gain a STAB in Extreme Speed would make it more impractical, especially as then it'd be unable to stack it with its innate STAB for an Adaptability-like boost.
Primal Kyogre is a popular thing to mention when it comes to Teras, Tera Water Water Spout being able to just 2HKO even speaks by itself, although it has the most obvious counterplay in and to some degree the gimmicky Utility Umbrella and extremely fat Water resists like and 
, plus common PP stalling strats especially with Pressure being common. Calm Mind sets also deserve a mention as they allow a healthy Primal Kyogre to overwhelm defensive answers, while also limiting offensive ones out of its already good special bulk. More offensive strategies of just wearing it down, especially for offensive teams that don't give it too much breathing room are also somewhat reasonable, and so I have mixed thoughts on 
. The counterplay is fairly common and given its lack of reliable recovery and physical bulk to some degree it requires a good amount of momentum and prediction to blow holes and the like.
Other mons that considerably benefit from Teras but I wouldn't consider them as broken currently:
Kyurem Black has been the weird joke in OU since its introduction until Gen 8 as it got tools that pushed it too far from OU, namely Dragon Dance and Icicle Spear. Nowadays it can elect to run a Loading Dice to have a consistent physical Ice STAB, and Tera Electric provides it with a far better defensive typing while also enhancing its Fusion Bolt, in total giving it STAB BoltBeam, thus becoming a potent sweeper. A weakness to Stealth Rock combined with limited defensive utility and stuff like being neutral to BoltBeam and forcing it out if it dares to Tera keeps it in check.
Besides being able to viably leave Teras at a side and just Ultra Burst into a potent sweeper, NDM benefits from Tera Water to handle stuff like and in a pinch, while more offensive sets benefit from a Tera to one of its STABs, or Ground to enhance its Earthquake and change its weaknesses, especially once it has triggered its Weakness Policy, but ultimately NDM lacks a bit on Speed and Special Defense, and isn't too difficult to force out or play around, especially with local , even if still a quite potent mon in general.
Giratina-O fills similar niches as the regular while also packing more offensive power from unresisted STABs alongside a Ground immunity in Levitate in exchange for bulk. Tera Steel is surprisingly underrated on this, it invalidates sets without Fire STAB, (Ground, Fairy), 
, 
, without Superpower, and , among others, while still checking (Normal) decently, especially for Extreme Killer variants with Ghost coverage. However, this can't be used for free at all, scouting is often required for consistency, especially if Giratina is your only check to stuff like some sets that skip Dragon STAB. Giratina-O lacking reliable recovery also means that you can't use it too recklessly either.
These are some of the most viable Arceus formes with a plate, and they all use Teras similarly, namely by swapping into another type to compress defensive roles depending on the match-up, sometimes also to just ease setup for Calm Mind or Dragon Dance sets. But what makes their usage of Teras not broken, besides the opportunity cost of using one of these over Extreme Killer, is that their usage is mostly defensive, which is far more manageable, and unlike
, they can't just cripple checks as they require dedicating at least one more moveslot for coverage to not become ironically passive.
Lunala has a quite terrible defensive typing and a weird speed tier that's easy to abuse even with Shadow Shield, and while Teras easily compensate, it's difficult at times to justify Lunala as nearly always wanting to Tera to be a reliable mon means a considerable opportunity cost, let alone flexibility on teambuilding, as much nowadays Teras are also used to compress counterplay in teams depending on the context.
Mons that barely use Teras:
Surprisingly Primal Groudon isn't that much of a Tera abuser. Tera Fire Eruption/Overheat isn't unheard of (as far ladder being ladder is concerned), but that kind of set is quite match-up fishy as Fire resists are everywhere in the meta thanks to Game Freak making Dragon the most common legendary type. Tera Flying is common as it flips the match-up against stuff like some (Ground) and sets, but becoming weak to Rock (notably including Stealth Rock) and Fire (losing the Fire resist is relevant as Desolate Land can backfire, heh) and overall having less defensive utility beyond that makes me consider such Tera type a liability than a benefit more often than not.
Ho-Oh in general is more of a utility Pokémon than a sweeper, and so it doesn't even bother with offensive Tera types. Given its duties include checking Ground-types without Rock coverage like, (Ground) and even 
sets without Glare (Thousand Arrows hits neutrally the first time, so you can afford crippling or phazing it out), plus without Dragon STAB and of course 
, Tera-ing Ho-Oh is generally a liability as then it loses to a good chunk of mons it's meant to check, however, I've found some success on Tera Dark late-game (namely when I know I can afford that) to annoy by luring its Z-Move after it uses Dragon Dance on the forced switch and phazing it on the spot, in turn becoming a solid check to stuff like 
, 
, 
and the rare 
.
Overall it's undeniable that Teras have considerably given shape to the meta at this point, and given they're still the status quo even after the suspect, I'd be expecting further tiering action on the current mons that stick out soon.
Any remotely viable team has at least two checks to this to nobody's surprise, Tera Fire allows Koraidon to get a nuclear STAB alongside sun, and while
exists, it's not too difficult to overwhelm with SD + Low Kick, especially as Desolate Land also triggers Orichalcum Pulse, so even if it's forced to switch out to set its weather later and blow holes more efficiently, nuking P-Don in itself is opening a wide hole for other mons to abuse. is also a potent answer, but Koraidon can retain momentum against it with U-Turn or just nuke it on the spot with Z-Outrage. So far you're obligated to guess what set Koraidon is running as otherwise it can nuke a check and ease sweeping.Personally I've been running
(Fairy) lately, and it has worked quite nicely to invalidate offensively pivoting Koraidons, while also doubling as a check to stuff like and stuff like and in a pinch with Tera Ground, although it struggles with SD Tera Fire Flare Blitz, especially with the mind game of having to either KO it with Fairy STAB or Ground coverage, as picking the wrong move can cost the match.Uber's equivalent of
right here. Geomancy in itself pushes this to the border already if it wasn't for stuff like , and being common answers, except it can nowadays just brute force past them with the right Tera type. Electric ensures a OHKO on Ho-Oh with Thunderbolt after a Geomancy while also giving a far better match-up against Steels, meanwhile Tera Ground gives a better match-up against Primal Groudon, but at least it's forced to run Hidden Power Ground on such sets over Tera Blast as the deer is dexit'd. still works as a hard-check, especially as a paralyzed Xerneas has about a 50% chance to fail Geomancy out of requiring two turns not being para hax'd, but it's hard to fit Blissey in general as it's naturally very passive.Scarf sets aren't unheard of either, but TBH those are the most tame sets, especially as local caveman dragon
also runs Scarf fairly often and can easily chip it over time.Oh yes, anyone that has tried ladder for a while knows how degenerate this snake can be. Zygarde is one of the few Pokémon in general that can afford setup and crippling checks on the same set out of only requiring a single attacking move to sweep (Thousand Arrows). Tera Fairy allows Ziggy to remove any of its relevant weaknesses to find even sturdy checks like
as setup fodder, it can even afford running Rest and just patiently wait to keep sweeping afterwards against teams without a potent special wallbreaker, which are inconsistent sometimes out of Glare, and I don't need to explain that the only mons that don't mind Glare (Electrics) dislike Thousand Arrows.Arceus does the usual stuff, being the equivalent of
over here glueing all sorts of teams, and filling countless offensive and defensive niches with its high stats and movepool and item removal immunity. But Arceus-Normal sticks out a bit as Extreme Killer benefits a lot from Teras, Tera Normal means that Arceus gets a surprising offensive boost and can clean teams without a faster Ghost-type, which are rather uncommon especially since already got banned by being dumb with Teras. has to deal with a mind-game as picking the wrong move can cost you the mon and probably the match, while can't KO Arceus from full and has terrible physical bulk (even less than ).A hard-counter to the standard set exists with
(namely, it's immune to Extreme Speed and Earthquake), but Arceus has been running Ghost coverage lately specifically for it, let alone Tera Ghost too, and so overall even with the best options Arceus has quite limited counterplay and can easily pick it from the teambuilder. Note that I don't advocate to banning all Arceus formes, as much has each forme tiered individually, and I feel that Arceus being forced to run Tera Normal to gain a STAB in Extreme Speed would make it more impractical, especially as then it'd be unable to stack it with its innate STAB for an Adaptability-like boost.Primal Kyogre is a popular thing to mention when it comes to Teras, Tera Water Water Spout being able to just 2HKO even
speaks by itself, although it has the most obvious counterplay in and to some degree the gimmicky Utility Umbrella and extremely fat Water resists like and , plus common PP stalling strats especially with Pressure being common. Calm Mind sets also deserve a mention as they allow a healthy Primal Kyogre to overwhelm defensive answers, while also limiting offensive ones out of its already good special bulk. More offensive strategies of just wearing it down, especially for offensive teams that don't give it too much breathing room are also somewhat reasonable, and so I have mixed thoughts on . The counterplay is fairly common and given its lack of reliable recovery and physical bulk to some degree it requires a good amount of momentum and prediction to blow holes and the like.Other mons that considerably benefit from Teras but I wouldn't consider them as broken currently:
Kyurem Black has been the weird joke in OU since its introduction until Gen 8 as it got tools that pushed it too far from OU, namely Dragon Dance and Icicle Spear. Nowadays it can elect to run a Loading Dice to have a consistent physical Ice STAB, and Tera Electric provides it with a far better defensive typing while also enhancing its Fusion Bolt, in total giving it STAB BoltBeam, thus becoming a potent sweeper. A weakness to Stealth Rock combined with limited defensive utility and stuff like
being neutral to BoltBeam and forcing it out if it dares to Tera keeps it in check.Besides being able to viably leave Teras at a side and just Ultra Burst into a potent sweeper, NDM benefits from Tera Water to handle stuff like
and in a pinch, while more offensive sets benefit from a Tera to one of its STABs, or Ground to enhance its Earthquake and change its weaknesses, especially once it has triggered its Weakness Policy, but ultimately NDM lacks a bit on Speed and Special Defense, and isn't too difficult to force out or play around, especially with local , even if still a quite potent mon in general.Giratina-O fills similar niches as the regular
while also packing more offensive power from unresisted STABs alongside a Ground immunity in Levitate in exchange for bulk. Tera Steel is surprisingly underrated on this, it invalidates sets without Fire STAB, (Ground, Fairy), , , without Superpower, and , among others, while still checking (Normal) decently, especially for Extreme Killer variants with Ghost coverage. However, this can't be used for free at all, scouting is often required for consistency, especially if Giratina is your only check to stuff like some sets that skip Dragon STAB. Giratina-O lacking reliable recovery also means that you can't use it too recklessly either.These are some of the most viable Arceus formes with a plate, and they all use Teras similarly, namely by swapping into another type to compress defensive roles depending on the match-up, sometimes also to just ease setup for Calm Mind or Dragon Dance sets. But what makes their usage of Teras not broken, besides the opportunity cost of using one of these over Extreme Killer, is that their usage is mostly defensive, which is far more manageable, and unlike
, they can't just cripple checks as they require dedicating at least one more moveslot for coverage to not become ironically passive.Lunala has a quite terrible defensive typing and a weird speed tier that's easy to abuse even with Shadow Shield, and while Teras easily compensate, it's difficult at times to justify Lunala as nearly always wanting to Tera to be a reliable mon means a considerable opportunity cost, let alone flexibility on teambuilding, as much nowadays Teras are also used to compress counterplay in teams depending on the context.
Mons that barely use Teras:
Surprisingly Primal Groudon isn't that much of a Tera abuser. Tera Fire Eruption/Overheat isn't unheard of (as far ladder being ladder is concerned), but that kind of set is quite match-up fishy as Fire resists are everywhere in the meta thanks to Game Freak making Dragon the most common legendary type. Tera Flying is common as it flips the match-up against stuff like some
(Ground) and sets, but becoming weak to Rock (notably including Stealth Rock) and Fire (losing the Fire resist is relevant as Desolate Land can backfire, heh) and overall having less defensive utility beyond that makes me consider such Tera type a liability than a benefit more often than not.Ho-Oh in general is more of a utility Pokémon than a sweeper, and so it doesn't even bother with offensive Tera types. Given its duties include checking Ground-types without Rock coverage like
, (Ground) and even sets without Glare (Thousand Arrows hits neutrally the first time, so you can afford crippling or phazing it out), plus without Dragon STAB and of course , Tera-ing Ho-Oh is generally a liability as then it loses to a good chunk of mons it's meant to check, however, I've found some success on Tera Dark late-game (namely when I know I can afford that) to annoy by luring its Z-Move after it uses Dragon Dance on the forced switch and phazing it on the spot, in turn becoming a solid check to stuff like , , and the rare .Overall it's undeniable that Teras have considerably given shape to the meta at this point, and given they're still the status quo even after the suspect, I'd be expecting further tiering action on the current mons that stick out soon.
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what the everloving shit is that zygarde set for??? also i think double edge over return isnt a good play on mence
This zygarde set spreads paralysis and check setup sweeper
bill.is.me
Banned deucer.
Double edge is fine, on that particular set you probably prefer frustration for the longevity but double edge doing things like always ohking geo xerneas compared to returns roll or killing psdef pdon after rocks 50% of the time compared to never is nice. As for their zygod it's exactly what it looks like. A defensive phazer with tera fairy providing a decent check to alot of random stuff with it's sheer bulk and tera fairy letting check nearly every physical attacker. The real question isn't what does it do it's why is it here and for that I don't have much of an answer. Considering the mons here it's probably here for necro and as secondary for misc physical attackers (duh).
so like yea idk. the team is whatever to mid. Not something i'd use but it's not the worst thing I've seen. I think it could use much much better speed control and the defense feels somewhat idk meh, it has the boxes ticked kinda but not too well while still taking up most the team. Idk how to explain it lol it just feels really messy, gives me a bad feeling. SD necro doesn't feel good without Z and even then ehh. You could make this alot better by adding speed control, instead of having sd pdon cm arceus and sd defensive necro all together focus on like 1 or 2 of those or a setup zygid with the others supporting it to break the opponent and you could keep mence (probably wanna make it double edge/frusration + eq if it's gonna be the wincon btw) and your chosen speed control to clean up after your chosen breaker. After that it would probably better (and goat etern wouldn't 6-0 :o) so umm also if the speed control chosen is anything other than koraidon you're probably gonna want a dark type for necro unless you both kept farieus and zygarde and wanna keep em super healthy all game ig so one can take the Z move and the other can check fr. Also if you remove facade on mence you'll want more ho-oh counterplay since rn it sits on all but mence and pdon.
yea idk random stuff. (also make morning sun moonlight cuz pink=better, trust)
Tips for countering trick room? Specifically
, as It just seems untouchable. Focus sash is useless, it kills basically everything and when it doesn't, that 30% flinch chance always seems to kick in. Even if you survive, Not many mons can guarantee and OHKO due to its insane bulk. Is there anything that can be done aside from putting a trick room mon on my team?