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Hello everyone, recently we've polled regarding the current state of the meta and with overwhelming support from the community (73.6% in favor of a suspect) we feel like this is an opportune time to begin the 15th suspect; Mega Blaziken!
Mega Blaziken is more of an interesting case; its non mega counterpart has been suspected and was found to be rather underwhelming in the National Dex metagame who possesses a lot of similar qualities with its mega. Like Blaziken, Mega Blaziken's Fire/Fighting STAB combination can leave it defensively checked by several common metagame threats with those being defensive grounds like Landorus-T and Hippowdon, waters like Slowbro, Toxapex, and Tapu Fini, and both Mega Latias and Mega Latios. Mega Blaziken cannot run z moves to help break through these aforementioned checks unlike its normal counterpart which means it's less effective at outright removing/weakening these checks as well as taking up your mega slot which can present great opportunity costs over other offensive options like Mega Scizor or Mega Garchomp. The slight difference in bulk Mega Blaziken receieves still leaves it vulnerable to being offensively checked by the likes of Greninja's Water Shuriken, and annoyed by Fake Out users such as Mega Lopunny and Mega Medicham. This point is further compounded by Mega Blaziken relying on Flare Blitz and Close Combat for strong coverage, both making it easier to revenge.
With this said, Mega Blaziken does have things that set it beyond regular Blaziken, mostly which lies in its 100 Base Speed which could prove problematic. This effectively lets Mega Blaziken force out a greater selection of mons such as Kyurem and Hydreigon while tying with other base 100s before Speed Boost, and outspeeding Scarfers like Landorus-Therian and Tapu Lele at +1, although this means it cannot comfortably drop Jolly Nature. Additionally, the mega grants a slight addition to bulk while having power identical to Life Orb Blaziken, meaning wearing it down through chip will be at least slightly more difficult.
Suspect Test Information
This is new to National Dex suspect tests!Reading this is mandatory to participate in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 80 with at least 50 games played. However, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 80 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 84. Also, doing more than 50 games to reach 80 GXE will suffice.
GXE
minimum games
80
50
80.2
49
80.4
48
80.6
47
80.8
46
81
45
81.2
44
81.4
43
81.6
42
81.8
41
82
40
82.2
39
82.4
38
82.6
37
82.8
36
83
35
83.2
34
83.4
33
83.6
32
83.8
31
84
30
You must use a new account that begins with the given prefix for this suspect test. The prefix is NXMBKN. For example, I could signup and qualify with the name NXMBKN Byleth.
Impersonating or mocking another user with your account name, or using an account name that breaks Pokemon Showdown! rules is not allowed. If there is any slight hesitation, you're probably better off picking a different name. We reserve the right to null your voting requisites if you are found impersonating or mocking another user with your account name. Moderator discretion will be applied.
If you are found trying to manipulate voting requisites in any way, you will be met with a harsh infraction. This can range from faking your screenshot to asking another user to forfeit.
The Pokemon that's being suspect tested, Mega Blaziken, will be allowed on the National Dex ladderfor the next two weeks, to give an idea on how it would affect the metagame.
The suspect test will go on for two weeks. This suspect test will last until April 10th at11:59 PM GMT-4.
Suspect Test Rules
You are required to make sure that whatever you are arguing for is in-line with the Tiering Policy Framework. If what you're arguing for isn't, there's a very high chance that your post will be deleted.
No uninformed one liners or posts;
No discussion on other potential suspect tests;
No discussion on the suspect test process.
Your posts are expected to be respectful, please do not insult anyone.
Make sure you read over you're posts before posting, to make sure they have some substance to them.
Failing to follow these rules, may result in an infraction.
If there are any questions, feel free to PM Kaede. If there are any questions about the moderation of this thread, you should feel free to PM the moderation team.
This pokemon is stupidly broken, i went 29-3 on my reqs run and 2 of those losses were to mblaze teams, its not a fair mon lol.
there's very little good defensive counterplay, you either pray that you run into eq with bro or run z/colbur into knock, or that it cant get an SD up, it does a stupid amount of damage even at +2, and thanks to its stab + coverage it can hit basically the entire tier.
offensive counterplay doesnt exist bar fake out shuffling with mmedi and mlop and water shuriken, speed boost + decentish bulk make it able to live literally every other form of priority in the tier, and at +2 it outspeed stuff like excadrill in the sand or rain swampert.
even if you manage to beat it, it enables the rest of its team like crazy. i unfortunately didn't save the replay but i had a game where i had to sack my clefable to deal with my opponents blaziken, which led to me getting swept by their hawlucha endgame, mblaze forces stupid kos / chip damage so that even if you manage to ko it you lose to the rest of its team.
this mon is fucking stupid, i dont know why its being suspect tested, if you wanted this suspect tested please hmu on discord or something and tell me why you thought this was a good idea. im definitely voting ban and i hope that anyone whose half interested in keeping this tier alive does the same too.
This pokemon is stupidly broken, i went 29-3 on my reqs run and 2 of those losses were to mblaze teams, its not a fair mon lol.
there's very little good defensive counterplay, you either pray that you run into eq with bro or run z/colbur into knock, or that it cant get an SD up, it does a stupid amount of damage even at +2, and thanks to its stab + coverage it can hit basically the entire tier.
offensive counterplay doesnt exist bar fake out shuffling with mmedi and mlop and water shuriken, speed boost + decentish bulk make it able to live literally every other form of priority in the tier, and at +2 it outspeed stuff like excadrill in the sand or rain swampert.
even if you manage to beat it, it enables the rest of its team like crazy. i unfortunately didn't save the replay but i had a game where i had to sack my clefable to deal with my opponents blaziken, which led to me getting swept by their hawlucha endgame, mblaze forces stupid kos / chip damage so that even if you manage to ko it you lose to the rest of its team.
this mon is fucking stupid, i dont know why its being suspect tested, if you wanted this suspect tested please hmu on discord or something and tell me why you thought this was a good idea. im definitely voting ban and i hope that anyone whose half interested in keeping this tier alive does the same too.
This should have never been suspected. The argument that it can be checked by toxapex and slowbro is rather questionable as it forces a switch with a +2 Thunder punch and ultimately puts it range of Flare Blitz.
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 224-264 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 322-381 (76.6 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 315-372 (82.4 - 97.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 315-372 (82.4 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 288-340 (83.7 - 98.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Yes, regular Adamant LO Blaziken is arguably a better wallbreaker than its mega counterpart; However, It is faster, it hits almost just as hard, and it kills pretty much the same thing as its regular counterpart with a slightly better survivability because it does not need to run life orb. The other things has already been mentioned in the post above so I won't bother pointing them out.
In my opinion, this should be Banned.
Let's talk about relevant defensive checks in ou first: Notably Fini and Landorus, Toxapex may get onto count(Who use slowbro this day when weavile is literally everywhere?)
As almost every team has form of u turn support(Landorus is everywhere lol), getting Mega Blaziken on the field is never easier.
Anyway showing calcs:
+1 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 291-343 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 274-324 (79.6 - 94.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 224-264 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Onto the irrelevant slowbro:
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 282-334 (71.5 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
There are more checks that i want to say, like lati twins for example, but most of Mega blaziken teams bring pursuit weavile, which would highly chip it onto range of Blaziken's powerful attacks:
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 318-374 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 213-252 (58.5 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And let's not forget that Mega Blaziken also has access to u-turn, making it harder to kill on wall that it can hardly break.
The offense counterplay, although it can hurt mega blaziken, or at least force it out, mega blaziken also have one good teammate, the tapu lele, which having the psychic terrains will stop the priorities and offensive counterplays.
Even if u somehow managed to kill it, it will be very hard to deal with its teammate in the later game.
As i mentioned earlier, mega blaziken can be paired with weavile, and both wear down the same check(Corvi, lando, lati twins, vice versa) and one will make the way for another one to late clean.
Anyway, in conclusion, this is very teambuilding restrictive and it needs care in battles as well. Mega Blaziken will be most likely taking a kill on the field, if that is on the hand of skillful people, without much effort.
This is my first paragraph about suspect testing, so some points might be wrong.
I will be appreciated if u find it useful!
No it just simply doesn't work that way, fini isn't even a completely safe counter since thunder punch is quite common on it, which will ko the most common spread at +2 with rocks 6 out of the 16 rolls, fini is also prone to chip damage since it doesn't have a reliable healing move. Might argue "just use it to counter mega chicken speciically, 37.5% is something we could gamble for" but fini isn't going to sit around just for blaziken, as it is usually tasked to defog. Ash greninja is pretty much forced to click shuriken, otherwise the user will just lose the game. Putting those 2 water types together means that you are also going to stack weaknesses to electric and grass without really overloading their counters.
Edit: i remembered the wrong calc, the most common calc is always getting KOed by +2 thunderpunch after rocks and 13 out of 16 do so without rocks
Your statement is quite misleading. Scarf chomp is not the most common thing you will be running, and mega chicken has a speed advantage over 2 of the most common scarfers, landorus-t and tapu lele.
If u consider it a threat, prepare for it! Its not so hard, there are many counters out there for it, the fini,gren combo stops the lele, m balze combo if u are afraid of that. Blaze gets countered by any unaware mon like clef or quag. It also dies to scarf mons like chomp if its not running protect which is rare. It just lets new pokemon to shine! Which is a very cool thing. My vote obviously goes for unban
Not everyone runs quagsire. More importantly, even in stall, Clef more or less checks it with the help of toxapex or quag most of the time and if they flare blitz to predict your clef switch in you're pretty much fucked or forced to protect or switch back into toxa while risking an SD into thunder punch.
it literally breaks through both of these, it regularly did 60+ dmg to my unaclef and took less >50%, its not like i ran an unprepared team either, i had mlati + rh toxapex + unaclef + hippo, yet i still struggled cuz its a broken mon. i def would have struggled more if i ran an offense team
This is just plain false
252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 184-217 (46.7 - 55%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, which doesnt sound so bad until u realize that
252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 184-217 (46.7 - 55%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
PSA: Calc with more phys def on your mons lol. Getting tired of seeing calcs (not just here) with nearly uninvested phys def fini + pex getting hit with adamant +2 tpunch, but in particular that shitty 112 or 164 def lando no one should be running rn.
What team were you using? Also don't see how you suffering 2/3 of your losses to mblaziken is an argument, considering how
1. it was introduced into the tier yesterday so we're still not 100% on how to use or deal with it
2. it's pretty common considering it's the subject of the suspect test
3. maybe you suffer from a skill issue idk
there's very little good defensive counterplay, you either pray that you run into eq with bro or run z/colbur into knock, or that it cant get an SD up, it does a stupid amount of damage even at +2, and thanks to its stab + coverage it can hit basically the entire tier.
Just run helmet lando lmao. It's not like bro and lando are the only answers, you've also got phys def fini, phys def pex, mlatis, victini, hippo etc. Yeah sure maybe mblaze can break these with like adamant +2 eq/knock/tpunch but some people are thinking this mon has 6 moveslots and can be both jolly and adamant at the same time.
offensive counterplay doesnt exist bar fake out shuffling with mmedi and mlop and water shuriken, speed boost + decentish bulk make it able to live literally every other form of priority in the tier, and at +2 it outspeed stuff like excadrill in the sand or rain swampert.
This is a gross oversimplification of the scope of offensive counterplay available. You really shouldn't be omitting urshifu, rillaboom, and faster scarfers like blace/latis/geng/gren. Yeah, I get that these scarfers aren't exactly meta but saying 'offensive counterplay doesnt exist bar fake out shuffling with mmedi and mlop and water shuriken' is just wrong.
Plus, you could just not let mblaziken set up? It's already hard for it to get in since from my experience, mblaziken only really gets 'safe' opportunities vs a few specific mons, and the 100 speed tier is still pretty mid. You can also catch the people who think adamant is the way to go (I've epowered an adamant mblaze with kyurem before lol).
even if you manage to beat it, it enables the rest of its team like crazy. i unfortunately didn't save the replay but i had a game where i had to sack my clefable to deal with my opponents blaziken, which led to me getting swept by their hawlucha endgame, mblaze forces stupid kos / chip damage so that even if you manage to ko it you lose to the rest of its team.
All HO teams aim to overwhelm shared checks so this isn't anything out of the ordinary for mblaziken. I also don't know why you had clef in on mblaziken instead of an actual check/counter like lando, fini or bro.
this mon is fucking stupid, i dont know why its being suspect tested, if you wanted this suspect tested please hmu on discord or something and tell me why you thought this was a good idea. im definitely voting ban and i hope that anyone whose half interested in keeping this tier alive does the same too.
No it just simply doesn't work that way, fini isn't even a completely safe counter since thunder punch is quite common on it, which will ko the most common spread at +2 with rocks 6 out of the 16 rolls, fini is also prone to chip damage since it doesn't have a reliable healing move.
ye fini isn't a counter but u could run more phys def: +2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 148+ Def Tapu Fini: 272-320 (79.3 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
For example, this lives +2 tpunch after rocks with leftovers.
Yes, regular Adamant LO Blaziken is arguably a better wallbreaker than its mega counterpart; However, It is faster, it hits almost just as hard, and it kills pretty much the same thing as its regular counterpart with a slightly better survivability because it does not need to run life orb. The other things has already been mentioned in the post above so I won't bother pointing them out.
You're just describing the characteristics of Mega Blaziken but not actually saying why it's broken. The calcs you had above don't actually mean very much considering how
1. the Lando spread is ass
2. Hippo and pex living +2 is exactly what they should be doing? Consider how they come in on the SD.
In my opinion, this should be Banned.
Let's talk about relevant defensive checks in ou first: Notably Fini and Landorus, Toxapex may get onto count(Who use slowbro this day when weavile is literally everywhere?)
If u consider it a threat, prepare for it! Its not so hard, there are many counters out there for it, the fini,gren combo stops the lele, m balze combo if u are afraid of that. Blaze gets countered by any unaware mon like clef or quag. It also dies to scarf mons like chomp if its not running protect which is rare. It just lets new pokemon to shine! Which is a very cool thing. My vote obviously goes for unban
I agree with your stance but your arguments suck. Clef and quag get 2HKOd by blitz and cc respectively, and scarf chomp doesn't exist. If you want to argue that mblaziken isn't broken, then focus on how it
1. doesn't get many opportunities even with the 100 speed tier
2. has 4MSS and cannot run both adamant and jolly
3. has shitty longevity
4. is awkward to fit on teams due to its limited defensive utility, wack speed tier and bulk, and opportunity cost due to taking mega slot
5. is defensively checked/countered by common mons in the tier like lando
6. whether or not its differences from regular blaziken are enough to break it
ye fini isn't a counter but u could run more phys def: +2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 148+ Def Tapu Fini: 272-320 (79.3 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
For example, this lives +2 tpunch after rocks with leftovers.
That is still not a safe counter, 37.5% isn't a particularly low number you can pray not to happen when you are the one defending, and fini still has it's longevity issue while having to defog, deal with other threats etc that will get it worn down into mega blaziken range easily. Or in short, Fini is an ureliable check or counter if you are using it against mega blaziken.
PSA: Calc with more phys def on your mons lol. Getting tired of seeing calcs (not just here) with nearly uninvested phys def fini + pex getting hit with adamant +2 tpunch, but in particular that shitty 112 or 164 def lando no one should be running rn.
So I went and pulled up usage stats for last month for Fini and common spreads and phys sets were really uncommon. Now you could argue you run more physdef on Fini to check stuff but even with investment and due to its lack of longevity, Fini still drops without much chip. This goes for other MBlaze "checks".
Insulting or questioning another player's skill because they hold a different viewpoint doesn't really make your argument look very strong. Respectfully I say this.
Bro is pursuit weak so I'd hardly call it an answer when Weavile is around and one of the tier's best Pokemon. The rest... Physdef Fini doesn't commonly get used. Probably for a reason. Victini and MegaLatis are also pursuit weak, Hippo is literally C rank on the VR. PhysDef Pex is the only real answer on here and it STILL has to avoid falling low enough to be picked off by +2 thunderpunch.
This is a gross oversimplification of the scope of offensive counterplay available. You really shouldn't be omitting urshifu, rillaboom, and faster scarfers like blace/latis/geng/gren.
UrshifuRS is uncommon and not particularly great. And Rillaboom is genuinely awful in the tier. You listed a bunch of scarfers that are either nonexistent or questionable to run. Except Greninja but other sets are better and I'd like to not to stick it on a bunch of teams when I like using any other Greninja set.
Plus, you could just not let mblaziken set up? It's already hard for it to get in since from my experience, mblaziken only really gets 'safe' opportunities vs a few specific mons, and the 100 speed tier is still pretty mid. You can also catch the people who think adamant is the way to go (I've epowered an adamant mblaze with kyurem before lol).
So your argument is... Just try to prevent them from setting up by making super risky plays and hope they don't attack you? Not really a reliable strategy.
All HO teams aim to overwhelm shared checks so this isn't anything out of the ordinary for mblaziken. I also don't know why you had clef in on mblaziken instead of an actual check/counter like lando, fini or bro.
The issue is when a Mon enables a structure to function TOO well. LandoT is also a shaky check at best. Scarf LandoT can't even check jolly chicken, and defensive sets just get chipped until it falls into range.
Not particularly. This isn't 1v6 with MBlaze vs the world. You are more than free to pick its moveset based on your team and which of its checks are handled. And no one said it can run both natures. Not sure why you mentioned this.
See above on why LandoT is a shaky check at best. And many others are pursuit weak. Or killed by coverage of choice. Don't forget it isn't required to run one set of moves.
As for me myself, I am gonna spend a while longer playing and testing it out. I'm open to having my opinion changed but so far my opinion on funny super chicken is more or less the same as pannuracotta's.
Just run helmet lando lmao. It's not like bro and lando are the only answers, you've also got phys def fini, phys def pex, mlatis, victini, hippo etc. Yeah sure maybe mblaze can break these with like adamant +2 eq/knock/tpunch but some people are thinking this mon has 6 moveslots and can be both jolly and adamant at the same time.
Sure, Blaziken doesn't have 6 move slots, but what is someone to do in a Fini vs Blaziken scenario? Just pray it doesn't have thunder punch? No, you switch into something else to scout for it. And then you get obliterated by flare blitz/cc/literally any other move.
And though I do agree that Landorus can deal with Blaziken... it's only temporary. Landorus doesn't have much reliable recovery (sorry, Leftovers doesn't count), so if Blaziken's supports can just whittle it down enough to get it in range, it's practically game over.
Well I guess I'll state my opinion now. I guess. Let's start by discussing all the potential sets/coverage and what they offer/forfeit. Swords Dance
First I'd like to go over what this does over normal life orb chicken, and that's be less vulnerable to chip due to increased defenses (+10 on each) and no Life Orb Chip and outspeed stuff like scarf Lando Lele at +1 and start out with 100 base speeds to cover stuff like Kyu Hydrei Tapu Lele and weakened Lando from the turn it gets in on them. It deals slightly less damage, but if you do the calcs yourself you'll notice its not really that noticeable outside of a few rolls that actually benefit the normal chicken (more on that anyone wants it). Is it better than normal LO Blaziken? Yes. Is it better than Blaziken that can run an item? Most likely. Is just being "better" enough to actually make it broken? That's what I'll go more in depth to look at.
Things that will COUNTER Mega Chicken regardless:
Needs to be defensive Landorus-Therian or else you will die, but when you are defensive Lando-T you are a thorn in this dude's side. Even if you manage to outplay Lando-T and it takes a good amount of Stealth Rock until in range of +1 Flare, Flare Blitz recoil and Rocky Helmet will have put it in range of priority such as Rilla Glide, Gren Shuriken, Medicham/Lop Fake Out, Shifu jet, and prob more. However when this thing is at full there is no hope and clicking Flare Blitz to weaken it will only result in ruining your own mon as well. Obviously if this is needed to check for something else on your opponents team you should probably account for that.
A less splashable ground, but Physical Defensive Hippowdon/Mixed will eat a +2 Flare/CC from full and OHKO back. Nothing else to say here other than its on the lower end of our VR so yeah.
(Niche) This thing has been talked up a good deal lately and yeah its probably the best answer to mega chicken. Is it necessary to check Mega Blaziken? I think not but it sure as hell helps. HP Ice can break through Dnite ig but HP Ice Blaziken will probably end up getting walled by something else anyway more on that atrocity later. No I do not think this is an unmon run just to beat dnite.
+ Thunder Punch
People can prob argue that this is its best set (and it is imo) as it nets you coverage on hitting Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Slowbro, Pelipper hard while giving up coverage on the Latis (Weavile can cover this but I'll come back to this in a bit).
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 258-304 (65.4 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 204-242 (67.1 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 262-310 (76.1 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (18.8 ohko after rocks)
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini: 334-394 (97 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Toxapex: 248-292 (81.5 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (56.3 ohko after rocks)
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 548-648 (169.6 - 200.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Peli only mentioned cause of rain)
(Things that will still defensively check) /
+ Knock Off
L Coverage move, you hit Slowbro and the Latis in exchange for being walled by Toxapex and checked by Fini and have a harder time covering these two through something like Pursuit. It helps in removing something like Rocky Helmet/Lefties on Lando or Hippo but you still need to deal with them afterwards. Better off pairing Mblaze with a Pursuit Weavile/TTar if u want to cover this route.
(Things that will still defensive check)
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 282-334 (77.4 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Needs Rocks for 31.3% lol L
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 334-394 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Lol yikes
+2 252 Atk Blaziken-Mega Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 330-390 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+Earthquake
For those of you who want to OHKO Toxapex and do literally nothing else over better coverage, here you go lol. A 37.5 roll to OHKO on max def pex though.
(Any check listed that isnt Toxapex works here)
+U-Turn
Same thing as above, hit Latis and Slowbro (but not reliably since u have to switch out and slowbro regens too) but better options in Knock/TPunch.
(Any check listed besides Latis and sorta Slowbro works here)
+Protect
Better anti-offense mon, but loses out on the coverage to beat any defensive check listed here.
(Any check listed here)
Other Sets other than SD:
Mixed Hp Ice
I don't see why this gets brought up or why you would run it over SD. The only thing it valuably lures is defensive Landorus as Glisc and Chomp arent answers regardless. In return you leave yourself more open to one of the many checks listed above with a harder time breaking non defensive Landorus-T teams.
Vacuum Wave
Mentioned in the room and in the discord a bit so u get a mention but
0 SpA Blaziken-Mega Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 144-170 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO lol. In exchange for hitting this for 50 and killing Kart you face coverage issues.
Toxic Flare U-turn Tect (I think)? Shoutout post to R8
Another cool set although I think the flaws of this are obvious to not go into and definitely don't aid in whether or not it should be banned.
It is important I mention all of these before moving onto our next section, which I think SHOULD be the deal breaker for whether or not you choose to ban Mega Blaziken, because ALL of these calcs and scenarios are achieved/surpassed by NORMAL LIFE ORB CHICKEN. Other variants of Blaziken can actually outright remove some of these checks with Z's over Mega Blaziken failing to OHKO at +2 as well. The point made with using Weavile to cover the defensive problems of bulky psychics, hp ice to lure Lando, Vacuum Wave to cheese weakened Gren (gl) and Kartana are all applicable on normal Blaziken itself, so if you value this part of Blaziken you are better off with running another mega and not wasting your opportunity costs with other megas.
The Bulk/Survivability
+10 Offenses aren't a big deal, but if you want to know where these really matter or some calcs that have been recognized, here's some calcs on that below
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 252-306 (83.7 - 101.6%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken-Mega: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- approx. 2HKO
I see this calc get brought up entirely as for why mblaze is scary and I have to say its pretty laughable considering 3 hits isn't even average trying to kill either Blaziken from full is a gamble and if you get 4+ they are both guaranteed dead so. Rocks give both a better chance to OHKO but this is Blaziken it will probably see chip before u send a Greninja to Water Shuriken it lmao.
252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 123-146 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken in Grassy Terrain: 136-162 (45.1 - 53.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
same as above for being a laughable thing to bring up, not sure what setup you are going to do to consistently get mega chicken to avoid rilla range over regular chicken.
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken-Mega: 126-150 (41.8 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 140-168 (46.5 - 55.8%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO
scenario p much doesn't matter because if Blaze isnt Tpunch/Eq Pex is winning the interaction and if it is Pex is likely getting only one Scald off+ Rocks brings both to 2HKO range.
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken-Mega: 206-246 (68.4 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this is the one meaningful calc I could find that benefits Mblaze over Blaziken, in that it does not have a chance to be OHKO'd after rocks by Scald. Running Rocky Helmet on Slowbro solves this however, but go figure.
I don't think the extra bulk is very impactful to the point where it grants Mega Blaziken more opportunities, 80/80/80 is pretty minute from 80/70/70.
THE SPEED
The real content begins here. Let's take a look at all the new things Mega Blaziken is granted over Blaziken. Important to note that Mega Blaziken is forced into Jolly to achieve these, or else you might as well not even run Mega Blaziken over Jolly Blaziken for these things:
Outspeeds: :Urshifu-R: , , (runs agility so iffy), (common ddancer), (more important for +2 speed blaze in sand vs drill)
Ties: (doesnt run timid max often however)
Important +1 Creeps on scarfers: , , :Urshifu-R:, *
As you can see, some counterplay is rooted out for not being fast enough, and these 4 scarfers will fall to Mega Blaziken coverage with an asterik on fini as it wins if you are not TPunch. This is very significant, and I do believe this makes Mega Blaziken a bit more difficult to account for but there are still healthy ways of keeping Mega Blaziken in check outside of relying on these 4 scarfers to revenge at +1. It will likely mean these teams will need a different means of revenging Mega Blaziken over regular Blaziken but imo isn't something that's restricting enough for me to consider it unhealthy. This does however, put Mega Blaziken a few notches over the standard life orb set along with the slight bulk/lack of recoil from life orb if you don't have a mega and are considering on adding that slot to your team.
PRIORITY
Straight out of the gate, the only two priority capable of OHKO'ing Mega Blaziken are and (ig daunt too but w/e). However due to the nature of Mega Blaziken as a set up sweeper it sees itself chipping itself very often through the course of a game or reducing its sweep potential with Flare Blitz/CC opening up other options like Rilla Glide, Medi/Lop Fake Out, Mawile sucker later on.
Set Up Opportunities
They are about just the same as normal Blaziken although slightly better in some cases due to not having an item to set up on Knock Offs more, which isn't very good considering that Blaziken already doesn't get many opportunities through its typing and mid defenses. You do gain the jump on stuff like Kyurem and Hydrei now so the added speed helps a bit more in this department but still not anything great.
So What Partners Can MBlaze Run + + / +
Mega Blaziken and Weavile compliment each other wearing down each others checks while also having Weavile provide pursuit for Slowbro and Latis, however aren't really the strongest defensively. Tapu Koko strengthens Tpunch variants and can potentially provide pressure on Defensive Lando-T if it is their only electric answer (although it shouldnt for obvious reasons). Can bring Mblaze in on stuff like ferro to set up. Tapu Lele can help alleviate the problem of being answered by priority and annoy switchins to MBlaze. These are kind of things regular Blaziken can abuse itself however which has not really been recognized so I'm again surprised why people are scared just now.
So What Are Some Decent Cores Against MBlaze +
This is just an example but basically defensive check that can live a +2 hit + priority will pretty much always snuff out Mega Blaziken even if it is running the right coverage to invalidate your offensive answer.
Covers all coverage routes however is susceptible to Weavile+ Mblaze making this one more consistent outside of this pair.
(Defensive) A one man army because this thing is all you need.
Opportunity Cost
There is a very real opportunity cost of running this as your mega over other things on a Hyper Offense team, considering it can also perform a similar job running Life Orb/Z instead, giving up another potential mega like sciz chomp or gyarados. Someone else probs can go to a greater depth than that for me getting tired on this post. Additionally this mon can face competition from similar fighting types megas like Mega Medi for breaking BO/fat and Mega Lop for handling offense + better initial speed tier.
Conclusion
With all this said, IN MY OPINION I believe Mega Blaziken will be very good, but NOT BANWORTHY due to having stable enough counterplay that I don't feel is super restricting. I can't really stress this enough, the mon has answers y'all, that aren't as restrictive as something like Dragapult or Tornadus-Therian. I do think that the added speed tier makes checking it from something like Normal Blaziken a bit trickier but it can still be done without sacrificing your team. The +2 Calcs are pretty absurd but it still needs to find set up opportunities which is a lot more difficult in practice and once it has it, has to pick coverage vs existing checks and deals enough chip to be picked off by priority if you don't have the greatest defensive answer. It's a shock to me that people are acting like we don't already have a mid mon that can do all these same calcs to I decided to elaborate on this and more. Ok goodnight now, feel free to disagree and whatnot. There's plenty of points to be picked out in this post about why the mon is good or why it's overrated and I feel it's good discussion nevertheless.
After playing some more games at high ladd than requested for the suspect, here's my opinion: M-Blaziken is really strong, maybe not broken as a solo breaker, but here comes the problem: M-Blaziken + Weavile.
If your opponent can left click on his screen it's over, you loose. I'm not joking, that's serious. Every check you'd run get destroyed by this combo:
- Slowbro is getting 50/50 every time he comes in, either getting Pursuited and not checking M-Blaziken anymore or loosing his boots to a Koff and become hazards weak
- Lando-T Rocky is getting Koffed
- Mtios and Mtias just get pressured by ice move/Pursuit
- Dragonite and Hippodown are getting Triple Axelled
It leaves Toxa and Fini, which aren't the best checks to Tpunch M-Blaziken due to their weakness to entry hazards, as guys showed with calcs above.
And for those who would say "that's the same with regular Blaziken" just... no. Not be able to RK with common scarfer like Lando-T or Lele makes a very huge difference.
My opinion is that it should stay Banned, for the building restriction it brings and for the power of 100 BS speed + Speed Boost.
Echoing Royal's post from above, I think Mega-Blaziken should stay banned.
The main issue I have with this mon aside from everything that's been said before is how easily its checks can get overwhelmed. I used this firespam team that focuses on pressuring common resists such as Toxapex, Latias, Slowbro, Tapu Fini, and bulky mons in general. The only mon I really had problems with was a special Intimidate Salamence that crit my Fini.
Typespam isn't the only way of pressuring Blaze's checks, as Royal said, Pursuit Weavile is exceptional at that, and other mons like Kartana, Garchomp or Offensive Kommo-o can all weaken the common checks Byleth talked about previously. Lele is also a phenomenal partner, as Psychic Terrain will limit RK options from Priority Users, forcing the opposing team to dance around it to stall out terrain.
The other issue I have is the huge bulk difference between the two, cause yea 10 in each defense isn't much but being able to live 2 Pex Scalds from full, not risking dying on Offensive Heatran's Earth Power or even eating an Earthquake from Gliscor can make a HUGE difference, especially since this Blaziken does not take LO recoil. Yeah, LO reg Blaze hits harder, but can only take 2 mons with it if it's a 15%, while Mega-Blaziken can steamroll through a team without worrying about recoil on moves like CC or Knock Off.
Blaze in itself will very rarely win games on its own, and this was the case for other threats like Cinderace for example. But the ability to wear down everything or abuse the sheer power of other hard hitters weakening its checks.
I just don't think this mon is fair, even thought it's really fun to use. It's not an "on-paper" threat cause it will always either beat its checks, or open up the door for its teammates. I lost a bunch of games during my laddering session mainly because my team isn't the most solid thing in the world defensively, and most of the games I lost were to offensive teams, most of em using their own Blaziken to cause me huge problems once Torkoal was weakened.
I'm just gonna remind everyone that even regular blaziken was banned to ubers in gen 7. I don't even understand why they even thought of suspect testing this mega KFC in the first place.
I'm just gonna remind everyone that even regular blaziken was banned to ubers in gen 7. I don't even understand why they even thought of suspect testing this mega KFC in the first place.
Yes and now Blaziken is practically a UU mon, and sees 0 OU usage. I currently have no solid opinions yet on MBlaze but asking why it was suspected is honestly baffling, having a 75%~ request for it to be suspected in the recent survey surely should answer this question. And if you mean why these ~75% people want a test for it, well they saw the outcome of the Blaziken suspect a while back, and assuming its Mega form is going to be fine isnt really a far fetch, as overall they are similiar, although the specific characteristics of the Mega might push it over the edge for some.
I have finally finished formulating a proper opinion on mega-blaziken and daaaaamn this thing is busted as hell, if it grabs the SD your only options are to switch to your bulky mons to check it, even if this works they still get chunked and leave their team vulnerable to KFC's other teammates like banded weavile or spec greninja. Not to mention the unpredictability factor of mega-blaziken, you either hope it isn't running coverage for your walls, even hp ice can be run to screw defensive lando switches. It also has base 100 speed allowing it to out speed pretty much every relevant scarfer in the tier after 1 boost and it isn't too difficult to grab a SD with mons like blissey/chansey and ferro running around. Of course mega-KFC does falter against priority spammers, but what happen if its got lele as support and your other tapu or terrain setter has been chipped into KO range? It isn't very reasonable to force most teams to run two or more defensive mons just to CHECK (not counter) mega-blaziken. I'm not totally decided on this one as of yet, but I do believe I'm pretty confident in this one. People say its manageable with smart play, but that's what a lot of people said about dragapult when it got suspected and look where that went. Therefore I will probably be voting to keep this monster BANNED.
Mblaze seems pretty good, 90% of teams even before this test were running a bulky water + landorus so it isn't like you have to go incredibly far out of your way to have serviceable checks like some posts suggest.
Offensive counterplay is pretty varied too since its nukes leave it weakened so stuff like Double prio Lop and Medi only need minimal chip and a CC drop, Scarf gren while less common does the job provided you dont give it 2 free boosts, as does Ash Gren of course.
Dealing with Blaziken after an SD isnt too much more difficult than any of the other HO megas and I think all this makes Mega Blaze fairly manageable without even going too out of your way to prepare for it specifically in the builder. I think the issues come in when it is paired with Weavile on like bulky offense bits that can take advantage of chipping stuff down better, but honestly maybe Weavile is the problem.
I personally think the new Mega-Blaziken thread should unban blaziken. First of all Scarf Latios is going to ohko after a speed boost from blaziken, if Tapu Fini and Toxapexs are up against it (as long as it doesn't have thunder punch) they can 2 hit Ko. Specs Greninja-Ash even if Timid Nature with life Orb or choice specs can ohko with priority water shuriken. Although the toxapex has to be based defensively but that'll make greninja much more powerful. Landorus-Therian easily counters with Scarf or rocky helmet even special bulk. Blaziken can't switch into Rillabooms Grassy Glide if it has choice band because it will 2 shot and Rillaboom can predict with high horse power, it can also ohko with wood Hammer.Another thing, Mega Blaziken does horrible in anything goes, imagine being in a tier with a starter where Mega Rayquaza is allowed.These are all my reasons, if you guys agree or disagree let me know!
Swords Dance
Needs to be defensive Landorus-Therian or else you will die, but when you are defensive Lando-T you are a thorn in this dude's side. Even if you manage to outplay Lando-T and it takes a good amount of Stealth Rock until in range of +1 Flare, Flare Blitz recoil and Rocky Helmet will have put it in range of priority such as Rilla Glide, Gren Shuriken, Medicham/Lop Fake Out, Shifu jet, and prob more. However when this thing is at full there is no hope and clicking Flare Blitz to weaken it will only result in ruining your own mon as well. Obviously if this is needed to check for something else on your opponents team you should probably account for that.
A less splashable ground, but Physical Defensive Hippowdon/Mixed will eat a +2 Flare/CC from full and OHKO back. Nothing else to say here other than its on the lower end of our VR so yeah.
This thing has been talked up a good deal lately and yeah its probably the best answer to mega chicken. Is it necessary to check Mega Blaziken? I think not but it sure as hell helps. HP Ice can break through Dnite ig but HP Ice Blaziken will probably end up getting walled by something else anyway more on that atrocity later. No I do not think this is an unmon run just to beat dnite.
/ 
, 
(runs agility so iffy), 
(common ddancer), 
(more important for +2 speed blaze in sand vs drill)
(doesnt run timid max often however)
and 
(ig daunt too but w/e). However due to the nature of Mega Blaziken as a set up sweeper it sees itself chipping itself very often through the course of a game or reducing its sweep potential with Flare Blitz/CC opening up other options like Rilla Glide, Medi/Lop Fake Out, Mawile sucker later on. 
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