OM National Dex Balanced Hackmons

dhelmise

everything is embarrassing
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NDBH has consecutively had more plays than SVBH ever since January; you have a fair point with the popularity argument but it does lean in NDBHs favor, and while not being as significant as I said still does show what the more popular format is and why it shouldn't be treated as an inferior to SV.

lets pick up a book next time and read a metaphor too by the way :P
Nobody actually said or inferred NDBH was inferior except for you by the way. If you're going to be rude and tell me to pick up a book, maybe make sure the stuff you're replying to me with is actually true.

Let's use January 2023 as a starting point since that's what you used to prove "NDBH has had consecutively more plays":
  • Jan 2023
    • NDBH: 12,102 games
    • SVBH: 38,745 games
  • Feb 2023
    • NDBH: 18,571 games
    • SVBH: 34,381 games
  • Mar 2023
    • NDBH: 18,214 games
    • SVBH: 27,407 games
  • Apr 2023
    • NDBH: 18,012 games
    • SVBH: 22,807 games
you're telling me to pick a book up when this website is free to read: https://www.smogon.com/stats/
 

hidin

What a kind young man
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Nobody actually said or inferred NDBH was inferior except for you by the way. If you're going to be rude and tell me to pick up a book, maybe make sure the stuff you're replying to me with is actually true.

Let's use January 2023 as a starting point since that's what you used to prove "NDBH has had consecutively more plays":
  • Jan 2023
    • NDBH: 12,102 games
    • SVBH: 38,745 games
  • Feb 2023
    • NDBH: 18,571 games
    • SVBH: 34,381 games
  • Mar 2023
    • NDBH: 18,214 games
    • SVBH: 27,407 games
  • Apr 2023
    • NDBH: 18,012 games
    • SVBH: 22,807 games
you're telling me to pick a book up when this website is free to read: https://www.smogon.com/stats/
I stand corrected when it comes to this but rudeness is besides the point, especially when the aggressor is questioning it. Being inferior felt inferred in the original post but not as much as the similarities of the two metagames when that's not true, along with the differences.

Good job on proving a point of my argument wrong though, hope that makes you happy :thumbs_up:
 
If we're gonna lose NDBH, can we at least get gen 7 BH as a retro OM as consolation? I've looked at and played a bit of SVBH, and while I imagine plenty of people like it (although the decline in playerbase might be telling), it's not for me, and I'm 99% sure I'm not alone in this.

Also, given the popularity of roomtours for it from what I've seen, NDRU might deserve a ladder, even if I'll never play it lmao.
 

anaconja

long day at job
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quick update:

:ss/zygarde-complete:
due to tera being banned, and zyg-c only being banned because of tera making it overwhelming, zyg-c is now unbanned.
some effects of tera being banned:
- miraidon and band zacc get notably easier to handle
- imposter is much easier to trap
- niche mons like flutter mane, palafin, etc crash in viability
- i cant burn zacc with tera fire xerneas anymore :soyegg:

also, a set you might have seen on the ladder during the suspect:
:ss/arceus-ghost:
Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Strength Sap
- Tail Glow
- Secret Sword / Teleport
i was looking at my toxic debris team and thought, "what if i just condensed the enabler and wincon into one?" arceus-ghost attracts a hell of a lot of physical moves, mostly spectral thief from fairly weak special walls like dialga-o, ting-lu, and groundceus. additionally, it resists uturn and has good bulk and decent defensive typing to take other moves and spam sap while passively getting tspikes up. teleport allows you to slow pivot into a physical attacker like band mmx/zacian to force in things like dondozo, pdon, giratina, etc to get poisoned and eventually lose in the long run to chip. hates losing to ph normals though
 
Hey y’all sharing my new Kartana team.
https://pokepast.es/1c881229133e3a06
:zygarde-complete:
This is my improof for Kartana. Will o wisp is probably dumb in pheal meta but I like it anyways. Very bulky wall, great pivot.
:Kartana:
While thinking about o pulse getting banned in paldea move bh I thought about o pulse Kartana and thus the concept was born.
:chansey:
What can I say it’s chansey it’s imp you love em or you hate em.
:diancie-mega:
Was looking for something to get past giratina/zyg complete. Didn’t wanna use zac, mglo m Dian seemed fun. Steel beam is a funny into imposter.
:GROUDON-primal:
Diancie improof, improofed by zyg c. Very awesome, very official.
:gyarados-mega:
Looked for poison heal basically. Ceaseless is great, rapid spin is great. Nuzzle paralysis is solid.
 

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Hey y’all sharing my new Kartana team.
https://pokepast.es/1c881229133e3a06
:zygarde-complete:
This is my improof for Kartana. Will o wisp is probably dumb in pheal meta but I like it anyways. Very bulky wall, great pivot.
:Kartana:
While thinking about o pulse getting banned in paldea move bh I thought about o pulse Kartana and thus the concept was born.
:chansey:
What can I say it’s chansey it’s imp you love em or you hate em.
:diancie-mega:
Was looking for something to get past giratina/zyg complete. Didn’t wanna use zac, mglo m Dian seemed fun. Steel beam is a funny into imposter.
:GROUDON-primal:
Diancie improof, improofed by zyg c. Very awesome, very official.
:gyarados-mega:
Looked for poison heal basically. Ceaseless is great, rapid spin is great. Nuzzle paralysis is solid.
:zygarde-complete: idrk why its sassy
:kartana: adamant is a little suspicious bc then you dont outspeed arcs meaning they can burn you before you move. also solar blade is very risky bc getting worry seeded or psea switching in means youre stuck for a turn, just use power whip
:chansey: heal order over roost and you need phazing/hazing somewhere lest you get owned by substitute. heal bell isnt very good bc you have a pheal who loves getting knocked, also minimize speed for parting shot
:diancie-mega: steel beam is not very good because either stab chunks imp anyway while you get walled by stuff like scales groundceus. wood hammer works better here
:groudon-primal: extremely inconsistent diancie improof as head smash deals almost 50 while solar beam only does around 25 to eviolite. you probably have to change this to something like psea zacian-c
:gyarados-mega: this is ok but i highly recommend rend to vastly improve your offensive presence, as is it just flails against fairies
the team as a whole is probably too offensive (very lacking defensive core) while being too slow (max speed 110). stuff like miraidon/mmy/gengar just blow it open considering the lack of special wall and imp doesnt last forever especially given no recovery. some restructuring is needed, likely replacing pdon with a special wall that walls diancie and doesnt stack weaknesses (groundceus likely out of the picture)

and a bit of policy talk just to clear things up
:ss/greninja-ash:
because gren-ash exists in bh, it only follows that it also exists in ndbh. however, council has decided to immediately quickban it due to its highly constraining nature, especially given the existence of another similarly constraining but more one-dimensional miraidon (which we might look into in the future, or hadron engine). we will revisit them after ndostl
 
:zygarde-complete: idrk why its sassy
:kartana: adamant is a little suspicious bc then you dont outspeed arcs meaning they can burn you before you move. also solar blade is very risky bc getting worry seeded or psea switching in means youre stuck for a turn, just use power whip
:chansey: heal order over roost and you need phazing/hazing somewhere lest you get owned by substitute. heal bell isnt very good bc you have a pheal who loves getting knocked, also minimize speed for parting shot
:diancie-mega: steel beam is not very good because either stab chunks imp anyway while you get walled by stuff like scales groundceus. wood hammer works better here
:groudon-primal: extremely inconsistent diancie improof as head smash deals almost 50 while solar beam only does around 25 to eviolite. you probably have to change this to something like psea zacian-c
:gyarados-mega: this is ok but i highly recommend rend to vastly improve your offensive presence, as is it just flails against fairies
the team as a whole is probably too offensive (very lacking defensive core) while being too slow (max speed 110). stuff like miraidon/mmy/gengar just blow it open considering the lack of special wall and imp doesnt last forever especially given no recovery. some restructuring is needed, likely replacing pdon with a special wall that walls diancie and doesnt stack weaknesses (groundceus likely out of the picture)

and a bit of policy talk just to clear things up
:ss/greninja-ash:
because gren-ash exists in bh, it only follows that it also exists in ndbh. however, council has decided to immediately quickban it due to its highly constraining nature, especially given the existence of another similarly constraining but more one-dimensional miraidon (which we might look into in the future, or hadron engine). we will revisit them after ndostl
https://pokepast.es/65abf4550eb60834 is this better?
 

LOrd Fernado

I COULD BE BANNED!
:zygarde-complete: i think this is fine, could put pivoting if u really wanted to
:kartana: i dont think orichalcum pulse is an optimal set, because of solar blades reliance on ori pulse, and if something like psea zacc switches in it forces it out. would rather run something like steely spirit or mold breaker
:chansey: imposter does imposter
:diancie-mega: run chloroblast over wood hammer.
:gyarados-mega: this is also fine imo
:dialga-origin: don't run adamant crystal on this. the set itself looks a little sketchy, i would run something like knock off or mortal spin maybe over haze or parting shot

this team really struggles against zacc and pdon, would probably change the defensive core to make sure your fc and scales walls aren't both dragon-type
 
:zygarde-complete: i think this is fine, could put pivoting if u really wanted to
:kartana: i dont think orichalcum pulse is an optimal set, because of solar blades reliance on ori pulse, and if something like psea zacc switches in it forces it out. would rather run something like steely spirit or mold breaker
:chansey: imposter does imposter
:diancie-mega: run chloroblast over wood hammer.
:gyarados-mega: this is also fine imo
:dialga-origin: don't run adamant crystal on this. the set itself looks a little sketchy, i would run something like knock off or mortal spin maybe over haze or parting shot

this team really struggles against zacc and pdon, would probably change the defensive core to make sure your fc and scales walls aren't both dragon-type
Doesn’t zyg c wall pdon or does it run glance. Also wouldn’t I need to run double fc to not be weak to zac + pdon.
 
New revelation
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Electro Drift/solar beam/bolt strike/collision course/headlong rush/more blah blah blah
- Lumina Crash
- Strength Sap/synthesis
- V-create
This set benefits from being able to run mixed so well, with the bulk to back it up. E drift hits flying and water Pokémon such as dondozo mega slowbro and yveltal, solar beam hits ground types like mega swampert and arc ground, bolt strike does the same as drift just from phys. Course hits dark types like ting lu and arceus dark. Hlr hits steels that aren’t fire weak such as dialga o.
Lumina crash can brute force mons such as arceus forms. Is this set decent or is it utterly outclassed by deoxys attack?

edit:
I also thought of :regigigas:/:slaking: with o pulse with wicked e speed v create filler, god I love o pulse.
 
Last edited:

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
new dlc just dropped so heres whats new

:ss/pecharunt:
Pecharunt @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Entrainment / Core Enforcer / Mortal Spin
- Heal Order
- U-turn / Teleport
strange fur coater but it has 20% more physical bulk than lunala (groudon vcreate barely 3hkos it as a benchmark) and less debilitating weaknesses to knock/thief at the cost of being weak to photon meaning it can't check mmx. definitely useable though plus immunity to poison is just a extra treat

:ss/gengar-mega::ss/eternatus::pecharunt:
Gengar-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Astral Barrage
- Malignant Chain
- Volt Switch

Eternatus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Malignant Chain
- Dragon Energy
- Blue Flare
- Volt Switch
a more influential part of it though is its signature, malignant chain, which is 100 bp with 50% to toxic. this makes gengar, and to a much lesser extent eternatus, much more annoying to handle defensively because your noncloak options can get statused and worn down. whether this makes ggarm banworthy or not we'll have to see

:ss/terapagos-stellar:
Terapagos-Stellar @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Earth Power
- Calm Mind
- Strength Sap

Terapagos-Stellar @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Boomburst
- Spectral Thief
- Heal Order
- Thousand Waves

Terapagos-Stellar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Boomburst
- Knock Off
- Spectral Thief
- U-turn
other formes are obviously unviable so heres this thing. hefty stat stick with 160/110/110 bulk making it a very sturdy ghost check. outclasses snorlax and typenull entirely, will probably run stuff like scales/ph/regen. definitely a small meta shakeup and on paper a fair reason to keep ggarm in the meta.

:ss/gouging-fire:
Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Knock Off
- Heal Order
- U-turn
mon will be like d/f tier for being the physically bulkiest fire type but its rocks weak and doesnt resist fairy so thats sus. also having spe and not spa means it cant use core which is really sad as a dragon type

:ss/xerneas:
Xerneas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Lava Plume
- Rapid Spin
- Burning Bulwark
burning bulwark is w/e

:ss/palkia-origin::archaludon:
Palkia-Origin @ Lustrous Globe
Ability: Primordial Sea / Beads of Ruin / Swift Swim / Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Dragon Energy
- Electro Shot
- Strength Sap
mon sucks but electro shot is mildly interesting. probably not nearly as broken in bh as it is here because scales elec resist is already a staple thanks to hadron engine but time will tell

:ss/mewtwo-mega-x::iron-crown:
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Storm Throw
- Frost Breath
- Electro Drift
- Tachyon Cutter
mon sucks but tachyon cutter might be an option on tech mons trying to hit fairies

:ss/xurkitree::raging-bolt:
Xurkitree @ Life Orb
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rising Voltage
- Ice Beam
- Thunderclap
- Earth Power / Strength Sap
mon sucks but thunderclap gives a priority move to semireal mon xurkitree

:ss/diancie-mega::iron-boulder:
Diancie-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Mighty Cleave
- Play Rough
- Electro Drift
- U-turn
mon sucks but mighty cleave gives a stab to very real mon tc diancie-mega!!

:ss/hydrapple:
(idk what id use this on tbh)
mon sucks and fickle beam is mediocre

:ss/charizard-mega-y::sinistcha:
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Oblivion Wing
- Matcha Gotcha
- Tail Glow

:ss/blaziken-mega::ceruledge:
Blaziken-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bitter Blade
- Horn Leech / Drain Punch
- Glacial Lance
- Swords Dance
matcha gotcha and bitter blade are boosted by triage. this doesnt change much except making chary a little more annoying and boosting blaziken extremely slightly
 
:Aggron-Mega: UR -> C+/B-

This thing is like the best physical wall ever. an absurd 230 base defense, combined with a respectable base 140 atk, this thing is a monster

:Kyogre-Primal:B+ -> A-

A very good ice scales user, this thing can wall a lot of things due to the high 160 base spD as well as providing defensive utility, and it has a pretty damn good 180 base spA.

:Giratina: C -> C+

Despite the prankster nerf, this thing remains a menace with haze, glare and parting shot
 
:Aggron-Mega: UR -> C+/B-

This thing is like the best physical wall ever. an absurd 230 base defense, combined with a respectable base 140 atk, this thing is a monster

:Kyogre-Primal:B+ -> A-

A very good ice scales user, this thing can wall a lot of things due to the high 160 base spD as well as providing defensive utility, and it has a pretty damn good 180 base spA.

:Giratina: C -> C+

Despite the prankster nerf, this thing remains a menace with haze, glare and parting shot
Idk all three seem mid cause like
O pulse exist why would you use steels
Hadron makes it semi difficult to use pogre
And giratina is kinda outclassed by zyg c for a lot of things.
 
Idk all three seem mid cause like
O pulse exist why would you use steels
Hadron makes it semi difficult to use pogre
And giratina is kinda outclassed by zyg c for a lot of things.
1- I don't really get your first point, but ok
2- I don't see hadron a whole lot, but I see a point there,
3- and if you already have a regenvest zygarde c set?
 

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