SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

[Pikachu315111]

So I was looking up Team Skull to see if I could learn anything about them and realized something: Someone actually does use Z-Moves in Team Skull: Plumeria.

And because of that, I just realized something that's a pretty big question that wasn't ever really answered:

Who the heck is Plumeria?

She has, uses, and gives out Poisonium Z for seemingly no reason, is with Team Skull, but has little to no back story I'm aware of. She's the only member of Team Skull with a Z Ring and is allowed to actually contend for the Championship title; because of that, she might be one of the very few to beat the entirety of the Trials. She doesn't seem to harass people like other members of Team Skull and only really makes appearances to stick up for Grunts, and doesn't even seem to help them cause trouble. Her character is really interesting.

Is she actually a rogue captain? Why is she even with Team Skull?

Sorry for double posting, but I just came up with a theory that maybe would explain a bit more Plumeria. In the post game we find Plumeria hanging out in Route 13's caravan. She's specifically in a trailer where a female Skull grunt reveals some interesting history:

"Team Skull was born outta this old group that once formed around one of the old Kahunas. But the whole thing fell apart after they got smacked down by the wrath of the tapu!"

In the same trailer there's also an old woman who tells you this:

"You can't know who will get named a kahuna or not, young'un, till they are chosen. Even humans sometimes have to live at the whim of some capricious Pokemon."

This makes me wonder if maybe these two bits of information has anything to do with Plumeria. Maybe Plumeria was part of the group that formed around the old kahuna before the Tapu brought its wrath against them. But, why would the Tapu do that? Thinking about it, I always thought it was odd Nanu was a Kahuna, the way he acts feels like he was only made one in recent times. Could it be Nanu replaced the old kahuna who did something to anger Tapu Bulu and make it revoke the title of and rage against the old kahuna and the ones who follow him/her?

So how does this relate back to Plumeria? Well if you were a follower of someone who was overthrown by a Pokemon, wouldn't you use Pokemon that would be strong against that type? All the Tapu are part Fairy-type, and what's strong against Fairy? Poison, Plumeria's specialty. In addition to that, her signature Pokemon is Salazzle, a Poison/Fire-type which would be double-y effective against the Fairy/Grass Tapu Bulu.

Going on step further, and leaping off Carrier's suggestion, since Plumeria knows how to use Z-Moves (don't know if she did when she was with Skull, but she did give the player a Poisonium Z when she was), maybe she wasn't only a follower but a Captain of that kahuna.

Eitherway, I'm beginning to think that Plumeria's story may run deeper that we thought, also involving the precursor to Team Skull and the traditions of the kahuna.

 

[Oriolous]

This theory. I like it. ANOTHER!


But in all seriousness, it did feel weird that Plumeria just had the Poisonium Z and yet she never actively used it in the battles against you, so perhaps this theory is actively accurate?

 

[Meowmeow]

I feel like Necrozma is another Kyurem situation where it absorbs sunlight or moonlight for its maybe future forms.

 

[stage7_4]

I feel like Necrozma is another Kyurem situation where it absorbs sunlight or moonlight for its maybe future forms.

Technically speaking, it's the same light: moonlight is just reflected sunlight.

Going back to Pikachu315111 's theory on Plumeria, perhaps she was one of the people living in Tapu Village when Tapu Bulu got angry at them for building a megamart (the site of the ghost trial). Now homeless, she joined up with Team Skull.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Technically speaking, it's the same light: moonlight is just reflected sunlight.

Going back to Pikachu315111 's theory on Plumeria, perhaps she was one of the people living in Tapu Village when Tapu Bulu got angry at them for building a megamart (the site of the ghost trial). Now homeless, she joined up with Team Skull.

Maybe Tapu Bulu attacking the precursor to Team Skull and the building of the Megamart is related. I don't think a kahuna would purposely do anything to anger a guardian deity, maybe the old kahuna was the one who decided to let foreigners build the megamart on sacred territory, thinking in the end it's the best to do to help the people, but Tapu Bulu just saw it as sacrilege. Tapu Bulu attacked the Megamart, the old kahuna tried to calm Bulu, Bulu then attacked the kahuna for letting this happen, the old kahuna's followers/Team Skull's precursor fought to defend him, and Bulu just destroyed Tapu Village. The old kahuna would have left dishonored, Bulu would choose a new kahuna in Nanu, and the followers would go on to become Team Skull.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

I'm wondering if this old kahuna is from Po Town? It would make sense for the disgraced kahuna (who probably lived in the Shady House originally) to return to his old hometown and for his followers to follow. As the organization grew and lost their way (I can imagine the followers originally attacked trial-goers because they did not believe Nanu, the new kahuna, was legitimate and so any new trial-goers that faced Nanu instead were illegitimate in their eyes), they began to take over the town and turn it in into what we see in the games.

Also, this brings up another interesting theory I have - why Nanu is pretty much mentally exhausted all the time and doesn't want to even do his job. Nanu was probably originally a bright and "happy" trainer/police officer who probably helped to settle everyone down after Tapu Bulu's rampage. Tapu Bulu might have saw something in Nanu and made him his replacement kahuna. Nanu's base of operations is right by Po Town and it seems like Nanu would not want to abandon his job even though he hates it. So, he probably got a lot of crap from all the Team Skull grunts yelling at him and mocking him in an effort to make him retire that he sort of slumped into this depression knowing that he really can't give up any of this.

 

[stage7_4]

It's an interesting theory to think about. These are not meant to discredit it, just to give talking points to improve it as there are some sticky sections.

1. How does Guzma fit in? After all as team skull's leader he had to play some part in it's formation, as the team quickly falls apart when he leaves. I guess it's not out of the question to say that team skull was directionless youth in revolt until Guzma came and the got more organized, but it still seems fishy to leave Guzma out.

2. How does the Aether foundation play in? Remember that Aether was funding (or at least directing) Team Skull's activities, and Po Town was originally an Aether facility (...I think?). Did Aether come in later or was it there from the start?

3. Is Nanu really that new a kahuna? On the support side he used to be working with Looker on the Ultra Beast case, so he couldn't really be doing that much service to his home island while working for international police. On the other hand Nanu seems really protective of Po Town (at least as a guardian of sorts, keeping the riff-raff in line) and interactions with his niece give me the sense he's been a kahuna for a while. And the Rt. 13 quote just says that "they" suffered the wrath of the Tapu, not that any kahuna was ousted. And "they" is really loose to interpret.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Nanu strikes me as a guy in penance for something, although that could just be related to the Ultra Beast sidequest. And Bulu is supposed to be the nice one, so I can see him being fickle both ways to say "keep you job just get these brats off my lawn."

4. Themes. Team Skull has this "disenfranchised youth in revolt" theme and this theory kind of runs counter to it. It's supposed to be this collection of failures and broken dreams, and a tragic backstory takes some of the teeth out of that for me (or at least some of them realism subtext). But this theme is just my observation and not absolute, and it's not like Gamefreak has never flip-flopped on the theme of a video game's plot (aka why I didn't like Black/White's A-plot).

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'm wondering if this old kahuna is from Po Town? It would make sense for the disgraced kahuna (who probably lived in the Shady House originally) to return to his old hometown and for his followers to follow. As the organization grew and lost their way (I can imagine the followers originally attacked trial-goers because they did not believe Nanu, the new kahuna, was legitimate and so any new trial-goers that faced Nanu instead were illegitimate in their eyes), they began to take over the town and turn it in into what we see in the games.

Also, this brings up another interesting theory I have - why Nanu is pretty much mentally exhausted all the time and doesn't want to even do his job. Nanu was probably originally a bright and "happy" trainer/police officer who probably helped to settle everyone down after Tapu Bulu's rampage. Tapu Bulu might have saw something in Nanu and made him his replacement kahuna. Nanu's base of operations is right by Po Town and it seems like Nanu would not want to abandon his job even though he hates it. So, he probably got a lot of crap from all the Team Skull grunts yelling at him and mocking him in an effort to make him retire that he sort of slumped into this depression knowing that he really can't give up any of this.

I would more think the old Kahuna was from Tapu Village/Route 13 which is why there's Team Skull members hanging around there, they're probably original followers. Also notice how the Kahuna is usually settled near where the Tapu's temple is: Hala lives in Iki Town which is right in front of the Ruins of Conflict, Olivia is in Konikoni City which has a straight path to the Ruins of Life opposite of it, and Hapu (and her grandfather) is in Ancient Poni Path which is next to where the Ruins of Hope are. However Nanu isn't, he's next to Po Town mainly because he wants to keep an eye on Team Skull and the Pokemon living there (plus the rent is cheap).

Also Po Town was taken over by Team Skull. I think it was said the town is where the royalty of Alola once lived (the Shady House being their mansion), which could mean it's where Acerola is from. I think Team Skull decided to take it over because it was at the end of the island (so you would have to go out of there) and just thought it and the mansion would make for a nice HQ.

Er, I think Nanu is more mentally exhausted because of his work as an International Police Officer (if what Looker has gone through is any indication, its a tasking job and I can see someone, especially who was in a superior position like Nanu was, would get emotionally drained from all the horribleness they've witnessed and had to deal with). I'm curious if Nanu is even a born Alolan or he just move there for some reason (and got picked by Tapu Bulu because it sensed he was a strong trainer who works hard to protect Pokemon and people).

It's an interesting theory to think about. These are not meant to discredit it, just to give talking points to improve it as there are some sticky sections.

1. How does Guzma fit in? After all as team skull's leader he had to play some part in it's formation, as the team quickly falls apart when he leaves. I guess it's not out of the question to say that team skull was directionless youth in revolt until Guzma came and the got more organized, but it still seems fishy to leave Guzma out.

2. How does the Aether foundation play in? Remember that Aether was funding (or at least directing) Team Skull's activities, and Po Town was originally an Aether facility (...I think?). Did Aether come in later or was it there from the start?

3. Is Nanu really that new a kahuna? On the support side he used to be working with Looker on the Ultra Beast case, so he couldn't really be doing that much service to his home island while working for international police. On the other hand Nanu seems really protective of Po Town (at least as a guardian of sorts, keeping the riff-raff in line) and interactions with his niece give me the sense he's been a kahuna for a while. And the Rt. 13 quote just says that "they" suffered the wrath of the Tapu, not that any kahuna was ousted. And "they" is really loose to interpret.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Nanu strikes me as a guy in penance for something, although that could just be related to the Ultra Beast sidequest. And Bulu is supposed to be the nice one, so I can see him being fickle both ways to say "keep you job just get these brats off my lawn."

4. Themes. Team Skull has this "disenfranchised youth in revolt" theme and this theory kind of runs counter to it. It's supposed to be this collection of failures and broken dreams, and a tragic backstory takes some of the teeth out of that for me (or at least some of them realism subtext). But this theme is just my observation and not absolute, and it's not like Gamefreak has never flip-flopped on the theme of a video game's plot (aka why I didn't like Black/White's A-plot).

1 & 2. As you said, Team Skull were probably just an aimless gang until Guzma took over and organized them. That I think if a more recent event and we're talking about the pre- and early formation of Team Skull. Likewise, the Aether Foundation supporting them is a really recent event, I'd say possibly around the time Gladion ran away with Type: Null. Gladion running away probably really messed with Lusamine's head, if she can't trust her own children who can she trust? So she set out to find loyal puppets and somehow ended up meeting Guzma and used his insecurities to make him her dragon and have Team Skull secretly working for them when they need it (Guzma probably was keeping an eye on Gladion for her and when Lillie ran away (and realized the extra smoke they had from Cosmog wasn't enough) she had Guzma order Team Skull to search for Lillie and Cosmog).

3. Well I think Nanu had been a kahuna for a few years, but I don't think he's the old kahuna. It really depends on what they mean by "old", are they saying it was a previous kahuna or that the kahuna is elderly. I more going for the former as it fits my theory better if they meant the latter its a bit of an odd way of saying it.

BTW, Nanu and Acerola aren't related. Acerola calling Nanu "uncle" is the same as Kukui calling us "cousin", it's an honorific term (moreso one of endearment and closeness rather then general friendliness).

4. What Team Skull now (or was) is a group of failures and broken dreams revolting against the system under the command of Guzma. We're talking about the group's origins which don't have to immediately match up to how it is now. It's called a paradigm shift and happens in social things all the time like science, politics, and religion. Just like how Team Skull overtook Po Town, the disenfranchised youth overtook Team Skull from the original followers who still stuck around though may not be as involved with the current doings as the newer members (the ones who follow Plumeria are probably mostly made up of the old followers if our theory has any truth to it).

 

[stage7_4]

BTW, Nanu and Acerola aren't related. Acerola calling Nanu "uncle" is the same as Kukui calling us "cousin", it's an honorific term (moreso one of endearment and closeness rather then general friendliness).

Wait. Kukui isn't my cousin?! WE'RE NOT RELATED AT ALL?!

I cannot handle this revelation

I need a moment to go rethink my life now.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Wait. Kukui isn't my cousin?! WE'RE NOT RELATED AT ALL?!

I cannot handle this revelation

I need a moment to go rethink my life now.

You should have watched more Rocket Power, yo.

 

[Pikachu315111]

You should have watched more Rocket Power, yo.

Or Lilo & Stitch. Or anything else taking place in Hawaii.

 

[stage7_4]

Or Lilo & Stitch. Or anything else taking place in Hawaii.

this didn't help at all

 

[Antihaxxer]

I really thought that Nanu and Acerola were related :(

Same island
Same type (Ghost/Dark are very close)
And Acerola takes the Elite 4 position of nanu

 

[hypno28]

I really thought that Nanu and Acerola were related :(

Same island
Same type (Ghost/Dark are very close)
And Acerola takes the Elite 4 position of nanu

The Elite 4 spot is explained by their being from the same island. So it's just "same island."

 

[Pikachu315111]

The only reason people thought they were related is because Acerola called Nanu "uncle", which is perfectly understandable misunderstanding. Only info that tells you they aren't related is from the official guide book.

The Elite 4 spot is explained by their being from the same island. So it's just "same island."

Except there's no Poni Island representative on the Elite Four, Olivia and Kahili are from Akala Island. So Nanu didn't really need to pick someone from Ula'ula Island, though I imagined he picked Acerola since she's descended from Alolan royalty so in a way it would make sense for her to be in a higher position. Though if Stars is a sequel to Sun & Moon the way BW2 was to BW then I could see maybe having Hapu take the place of Kahili and maybe have Nanu step down as Kahuna so another can take his place both as Kahuna and Elite Four member (though not Acerola, while they have an Elite Four that alone is not what makes a League and they ever really did anything with those empty lots we saw dotted around the region...).

 

[Antihaxxer]

The Elite 4 spot is explained by their being from the same island. So it's just "same island."

Pikachu315111 answers. Kahili comes from the same island as Olivia ...

 

[Cutefluffysheep]

Why is it machoke movers? Isn't machamp way more efficient with, you know, 4 hands? Also, how are the machoke paid? I guess you could assume they get room and board, but if not, isn't it borderline slavery?

 

[Siggu]

Why is it machoke movers? Isn't machamp way more efficient with, you know, 4 hands? Also, how are the machoke paid? I guess you could assume they get room and board, but if not, isn't it borderline slavery?

But Machoke could be a lot more cost efficient as they evolve by trading, and the companies they work for are not exactly Pokemon trainers :P

 

[Pikachu315111]

Why is it machoke movers? Isn't machamp way more efficient with, you know, 4 hands? Also, how are the machoke paid? I guess you could assume they get room and board, but if not, isn't it borderline slavery?

I think the first few seconds of their advertisement video will explain why. :P

Macho macho mon, indeed.

 

[Detective Barricade]

Why is it machoke movers? Isn't machamp way more efficient with, you know, 4 hands? Also, how are the machoke paid? I guess you could assume they get room and board, but if not, isn't it borderline slavery?

"Machamp has the power to hurl anything aside. However, trying to do any work requiring care and dexterity causes its arms to get tangled. This Pokémon tends to leap into action before it thinks."

Going by its Ruby/Omega Ruby dex entry, Machamp probably leads to an unfavorable amount of customers' belongings getting accidentally broken, which is bad for business. And going by its Moon dex entry, Machoke volunteer for the training for its muscles:

"It willingly assists with hard labor because it knows the work is good training for its muscles."

 

[Pikachu315111]

Just for fun I looked through the new Dex entries and found some stuff which doesn't quite add up (and yes this is a counterpart post to the one in the Movepool Oddities thread):

Sun Entry: Its long tail often breaks off. It doesn't really feel any pain, though, and the tail grows back, so Slowpoke isn't particularly bothered.
Moon Entry: Alolan home cooking involves drying Slowpoke tails and then simmering them into a salty stew.

You know you're making the act of cutting off a Slowpoke's tail seem less and less severe. Like I wouldn't be surprised if next time Slowpoke is in the regional dex they'll reveal there are licensed professional Slowpoke Tail cutters.

Grimer Sun Entry: Its main source of food is the slimy industrial waste of factories. This Pokémon's numbers have been decreasing in recent years.
Muk Moon Entry: After recent environmental improvements, this Pokémon is now hardly seen at all. People speculate that it may go extinct at some point.

How does one preserve a creature who's existence is dependent on the environment being polluted? Like the species could live on via their Alolan variant being garbage eaters, and as long as there are trainers at worst it would only be extinct in the wild.

Sun Entry: Both its legs became wings, and as a result, it can't move well on the ground. All it can do is crawl around.
Moon Entry: Silent and swift in its four-winged flight, it bites down on its prey before they realize what's happening. In a heartbeat, it drains their blood.

I never got this. It's legs aren't wings, it still has legs and grown a second pair of wings near them. Like I could understand them making this mistake for Gen II (where it was hard to see the legs) and maybe Gen III if they didn't bother to check the updated artwork. But between then and now you'd think someone would have noticed and corrected their Pokedex entries.

Although weak and helpless, this Pokémon is incredibly fertile. They exist in such multitudes, you'll soon grow tired of seeing them.

Intern Designer: Sir, I just noticed the majority of fishing spots have high chance of getting a Magikarp. Shouldn't we diverify them or at least make Magikarp less common.
Senior Designer: That's the point of Magikarp, they're everywhere.
ID: Yes, but new players wouldn't understand that. And gameplay-wise it would be frustrat...
SD: We're giving older Pokemon in the regional dex new descriptions, right? Just make a joke how they're everywhere. They can't complain since it says it right there in the dex.
ID: But it would make getting some other Water-type, including one of the new ones, frustrating to get.
SD: Only if you say it like that. It's not frustrating, it's "difficult", turning it into a challenge that needs to be overcome. Just like how having the Alolan Rattata, Yungoose, and Wingull family appear everywhere adds "difficulty".

Metang Sun Entry: When two Beldum link together, their psychic power is doubled. Their intelligence, however, remains unchanged.
Metagross Moon Entry: A linkage of two Metang, this Pokémon can perform any calculation in a flash by utilizing parallel processing in its four brains.

So, does that mean Metagross gets smarter even though Metang doesn't? Or does it just think faster but still as smart as 4 Beldum/2 Metang?

It exhales air colder than -58 degrees Fahrenheit. Elderly people in Alola call this Pokemon by an older name—Keokeo.

Why tell us alternate name for Vulpix but not Sandshrew family? Wouldn't the Pokemon with "sand" in its name need the rename now its Ice-type instead of Ground? Actually let me look up what the Hawaiian word for "snow" is... "hau". Okay, well let me try "ice"... "hau". Huh, well I guess that's why they didn't do that, though they could have named Hau something else but whatever.

Even if it loses one of its heads, it can live relatively problem-free. It makes snow clouds inside its body.

Wouldn't it become a Vanillish at that point?

 

[adman2]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this bit of trivia, but Type:Null seems to be the only Pokemon that has a different name in the Spanish version than the English translation. Type:Null is called "Código Cero", which means "Code Zero". Silvally is still Silvally.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this bit of trivia, but Type:Null seems to be the only Pokemon that has a different name in the Spanish version than the English translation. Type:Null is called "Código Cero", which means "Code Zero". Silvally is still Silvally.

Could be because Type: Null isn't an actual name but rather a code name, similar to the Ultra Beasts having the "UB-0#" titles which are also different between languages.

 

[Pikachu315111]

A discussion of Colress and Grimsley's cameo came up in another thread which had led me to wondering: at one point did they have expanded roles?

Colress is an obvious one, probably part of the Aether Foundation (being the blue/cyan of Lusamine's yellow, Wicke's magenta, and Faba's green). What role would he have? Well, Aether Foundation's first plan to deal with the Ultra Beasts was making a Pokemon to fight them. Wouldn't it make sense for them to hire a scientist who had been involved in creating a powerful Pokemon, one which had a type changing mechanic? The files for Type: Null don't have any author attached to them unlike Faba's blog posts, could if be those were maybe meant to have been written by Colress but they removed his name one they decided to unlink him to the Aether Foundation. Notice that, despite being encounter and later found near an Aether Base, they never mentioned he was part of Aether Foundation. He's just a random scientist standing right next to a research facility, no connection whatsoever.

But what about Grimsley? Well, I have two theories. First, considering Kukui is making a League, it would be real handy to have someone from another Pokemon League to help them. Grimsley may have been chosen as, if you relate things to the real world, Unova and Alola would be close to each other and in general Grimsley has been presented as a bit of a drifter (especially now that they close down the Game Corners). Maybe he was even meant to replace Nanu on the Elite Four, at least temporarily. "But with all the Kanto references why not someone from Kanto"? Well this leads me to another theory: maybe at some point Grimsley was going to be the Ula'ula Kahuna? I love Nanu, he's a great character, but thinking about it I can sort of make loose parallels with Grimsley. Easy-going, drifters, Dark-type specialists, and a strong trainer connected to a group of officials. Grimsley's wardrobe change is kind of drastic, he went from wearing a suit to a kimono. And with his hair having grayed it kind of looks like he's more on retirement then a vacation, like he's been staying in the Alola region and started to acclimate himself. Also, when you speak to Grimsley the first time he says this:

"Man oh man... What is going on today? Someone actually bothered coming to this kind of sad place?"
"Well, no matter. I'll take you on. Keep you company. Tell me. Uncle Grimsley is going to flip a coin. Will it be heads or tails?"

Now, what does Acerola call Nanu? ;)

As for why they didn't do these ideas, either they ran out of time or decided to give any development that would have gone to them to another character. Colress's would go to Faba who already had very little to do. Its kind of odd that he kept saying he was Aether Paradise's last line of defense when that title more fits Guzma who you fight before facing Lusamine (which itself was odd as you had fought Guzma recently in Po Town). Maybe originally you fought and defeat Guzma in Po Town (who would then go to Lusamine to help her), then maybe when you fought Faba in Aether Paradise you would have fought Colress instead (which would explain Faba's logic fail that Hau pointed out), and then outside the Aether Mansion you would fight Faba as the last line of defense.
Anyway, Grimsley's development went to Nanu. Acerola was chosen over Grimsley as an Elite Four member because she was an Alolan, close to Nanu, and the developers had this be your battle/rematch against her (if you didn't notice they tried to have you battle important characters multiple times since with most you don't get to battle them during the main story (of course there are some who after these battles can never be battled again)).

They kept them in because they probably designed them by then and everyone enjoys a cameo, though that said they reek of having their roles cut as Cynthia and Wally make a cameo return but don't receive a major wardrobe change (Red and Blue have some role being the boss of the Battle Tree thus not quite a cameo; and Looker is Looker, you can't change his style).

 

[PsychicAcademic]

Well, sorry if I may have missed something, but there's something conflicting that I can't get my head rest from. I just hope I missed a spot check in the whole story.

Timeline of XY - SuMn. There's something that bothers me. The backpacker in a motel gave us the Strange Souvenir, highly implied to represent the Tapu (it's sold in the megamart as well). And he also mentions the extraordinary Champion of that region (while specifically saying he's not from the 6 other regions). However, we know Pokemon League wasn't built yet and there's no Champion at all until Kukui did it as SuMn story progresses, implying that XY happens after SuMn.

And then in Alola we meet the two kids, Sycamore's assistants Sina and Dexio. Before handing us the Zygarde Cube, they referenced the group of five trainers, obviously referencing the XY kids, "in the past". This implies that XY happens before SuMn, since before the event of XY, they were yet to be trainers until Sycamore give them their starter Pokemon, starting the XY story.

Now, assuming they're in the same universe of Mega-timeline and they made no error (lol), which is true?
Does XY happen before SuMn? Or does XY happen after SuMn?
Or is the backpacker actually not referencing Alola, opening possibility of different origin of Tapus than thought or that there is more than one Tapu of their species? Or is Dexio referencing another group or a retconned story arc? Or... what?