Movie pokemon metagame changes

[Seraphic]

As some of you may know, the japanese movie raikou and entei will have some special moves. Most notably, Entei gets howl, flare blitz, and extremespeed, while Raikou gets Aura sphere (!). If these pokemon don't have set natures/IV's, how do you think this will impact the metagame?

Personally, I think if these are integrated, we will see very few arcanine and raikou will get bumped to BL almost automatically (now it has a move to hit SE on chansey and registeel, its two main counters)

 

[petrie911]

I don't think Arcanine will necessarily go by the wayside. Intimidate is very useful, and Morning Sun is excellent on a SR-weak mon and is good for Flare Blitz's recoil. Still, Entei could run a pretty good Resttalk set.

I think it'll be very interesting to see whether Entei or Arcanine ends up on top once these are implemented.

 

[Nas]

I expect Arcanine will still be used more on offensive teams, but Resttalk Arcaine might be replaced by Entei on Stall teams.

If Raikou isn't already banned by the end of this test, then it will definately be banned with Aura Sphere. I mean, Registeel, Regirock and Steelix are 2HKOed at +1, Steelix having a chance of being OHKO'd, and the same goes for Regirock if it isn't specially defensive. The LO set with CM/TBolt/Aura Sphere/Extrasensory will have literally no counters, as Chansey can't do anything other than fire off a weak Seismic Toss before it is finished by two more Aura Sphere's.

 

[connoisseur]

Would a Gengar-esque Shadow Ball / Aura Sphere / Thunderbolt be a good Raikou set to run?

 

[Cuiv]

Would a Gengar-esque Shadow Ball / Aura Sphere / Thunderbolt be a good Raikou set to run?

At least for now, Extrasensory is better than Shadow Ball because of the proliferation of Venusaur. If Venusaur usage declines or Mismagius usage spikes, Shadow Ball may become better. (Both have an immune type running around, and the types immune to each are hit SE by Aura Sphere either way.)

 

[lordkira]

Personally, I'd say Entei will most definitely compete with Arcanine and will be a good UU (not an OU or BL but a good UU). Now, for Raikou...with already unstable tier placement (currently has a good chance of becoming Bl even without AS), I think the CMLO+3atk set will boost it up to BL (or ban for now) and then become an OU pokemon as the CM/T-bolt/Aura Sphere/HP-Ice is pretty much hits everything with great power and speed in OU. It's going t besweeet

 

[Ekanselttar]

It's all fun and games 'till Raikou turns out to be always Brave.

 

[Sir Azelf]

If Raikou isn't already banned by the end of this test, then it will definately be banned with Aura Sphere. I mean, Registeel, Regirock and Steelix are 2HKOed at +1, Steelix having a chance of being OHKO'd, and the same goes for Regirock if it isn't specially defensive. The LO set with CM/TBolt/Aura Sphere/Extrasensory will have literally no counters, as Chansey can't do anything other than fire off a weak Seismic Toss before it is finished by two more Aura Sphere's.

Chansey still wins im pretty certain, LO recoil, status, S-Toss and Softboiled stalling defeat Raikou before Raikou beats it.

Never the less, Aura Sphere Raikou is going to be a HUGE pain. It basically eliminates the majority of reliable checks for it. I cant really see anything beating LO Kou bar a full health Chansey and revenge killing tbh. Though this is all theorymon at the moment obviously (Id laugh so hard if it IS set Brave or something lol).

As for Entei, id still rather use Arcanine tbh. Better sp.att without setting up and also Thunderfang i.e so it can actually DO something to water types, something which are on 90+% of teams these days. Morning Sun and an arguably better ability (Id take Intimidate over Pressure every time) just tip me towards Arcanine. I guess Entei does have Calm Mind though hmm...

 

[Midnight.]

This is kinda weird. I was thinking just yesterday about how cool it would be if Entei got something like Extremespeed to contend with Arcanine. Wow.

Thinking about it though, it's not that big of a deal. You do get something to hit Swellow and Dugtrio with before they hit you back, which is nice. I guess the positive of this is that they are building up Entei's physical movepool to compliment its ability to use Stone Edge, as opposed to running mixed sets. I'd say Arcanine still has the advantage with Intimidate and access to recovery. An attack difference of 11 (361 vs 350, assuming this Entei can be Adamant) isn't all that much, especially in the case of Extremespeed.

 

[dbcb]

i'll wait until they decide natures before I get excited...

but assuming good natures, i still like arcanine more. both of its abilities are useful (unlike entei) and morning glory is just great on it

 

[Mattman324]

while Raikou gets Aura sphere (!).

No mention of Weather Ball? Raikou is pretty good on RD teams, and I think that having a 100 BP water move - which gets Semi-STAB - is worth a mention at least.

 

[Banedon]

I think before speculating on what happens to Entei and Raikou, we should wait for it for the new moves to become available, and then see what happens to the Pokemon in OU. After all, if Raikou gets bumped to OU, there's no point discussing what it can do in UU.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

I think before speculating on what happens to Entei and Raikou, we should wait for it for the new moves to become available, and then see what happens to the Pokemon in OU. After all, if Raikou gets bumped to OU, there's no point discussing what it can do in UU.

If the nominations are anything to go by, Raikou won't even need Aura Sphere to be BL.

Still, I can't think of a better move for Raikou to get than Aura Sphere, better than Ice Beam even. LO Raikou wouldn't even have moveslot issues anymore, it is simply Thunderbolt + HP Ice + Aura Sphere, with no real reason to deviate. Steelix faces a possible OHKO at +1, whilst Registeel and Umbreon are easily 2HKO'd. Maxed out Clefable takes 75% average from +1, so it wouldn't even have a chance of coming in to check once then face 1v1 later at +0 to check a second time. Crazy stuff, even Chansey faces a possible crit KO with SR + Spikes. Highly situational, but we're talking about the number one UU special wall here.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

It's all fun and games 'till Raikou turns out to be always Brave.

I don't recall any of the shiny events up until now having shitty Natures going along with them. At worst, this Raikou will be Rash (as it has Extremespeed so they probably won't give it a -Atk nature).

 

[Banedon]

If the nominations are anything to go by, Raikou won't even need Aura Sphere to be BL.

Still, I can't think of a better move for Raikou to get than Aura Sphere, better than Ice Beam even. LO Raikou wouldn't even have moveslot issues anymore, it is simply Thunderbolt + HP Ice + Aura Sphere, with no real reason to deviate. Steelix faces a possible OHKO at +1, whilst Registeel and Umbreon are easily 2HKO'd. Maxed out Clefable takes 75% average from +1, so it wouldn't even have a chance of coming in to check once then face 1v1 later at +0 to check a second time. Crazy stuff, even Chansey faces a possible crit KO with SR + Spikes. Highly situational, but we're talking about the number one UU special wall here.

Exactly. Though I don't play OU, the best checks to Raikou there (if the analysis page is anything to go by) are Blissey, Snorlax and Tyranitar, all of which are hit for super effective damage by Aura Sphere. Raikou getting Aura Sphere will make him that much more viable in OU. He might see enough play to join OU the same way Roserade did, which would make discussing what its effect in UU would be meaningless.

 

[dbcb]

No mention of Weather Ball? Raikou is pretty good on RD teams, and I think that having a 100 BP water move - which gets Semi-STAB - is worth a mention at least.

^^^^^^^^^^^^


raikou would be deadly on RD teams...

 

[GMLW]

Guys, they will all have set natures due to being shiny. Shoddy 1 can't comprehend set natures and shinyness for certain moves, so it won't be implemented until Shoddy 2, and even then, programming it to always turn shiny and not allow other natures when a certain move is selected I'd assume would be difficult.

 

[Bamce]

Guys, they will all have set natures due to being shiny. Shoddy 1 can't comprehend set natures and shinyness for certain moves, so it won't be implemented until Shoddy 2, and even then, programming it to always turn shiny and not allow other natures when a certain move is selected I'd assume would be difficult.

well depends. They could easily have 2 listings in the dex.

Raikou
Raikou movie

grey out the option for changing nature, shinyness. But keep all the in battle stuff the same. Like when you throw it out or whatnot.

 

[GMLW]

Hmm, I guess. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know how difficult it would be.

I'm predicting Raikou will actually go all the way up to OU. It is slower than Jolteon, but has higher Sp. Atk, and can beat Tyranitar. If Jolteon wants to beat Tyranitar, it has to use HP Fighting and sacrifice the ability to beat Swampert. Raikou can use HP Grass and Aura Sphere to beat both. Raikou will also be a great addition to Rain Dance teams with Weather Ball and the excellent coverage between Electric, Ice, and Water.

Entei will move up to UU and face fierce competition from Arcanine and then fall to the depths of UU along with Hariyama and Weezing and the others.

 

[shrang]

If Raikou somehow survives this round (Which I doubt, judging on how many people want him out), he's definitely going to be banned with those changes put in. I mean, for God's sake, he can take out a weakened Dugtrio/Swellow/Alakazam with Extremespeed now!!

 

[Scoopapa]

If Thunderbolt-Aura Sphere-Extrasensory becomes the norm, Gastrodon and Quagsire will become good counters to Raikou. Also, Raikou probably won't run Extremespeed, since it only does ~50% (Life Orb, no EV's) to Dugtrio, who's only going to end up that low if you're using some other equally pathetic attack on your team. Sparing EV's for attack is just a bad idea in general - You can't OHKO Dugtrio even at Adamant. The only other time you would probably use it is for Swellow or Alakazam who's come in to Encore you.

 

[Aqueos]

Shrung your getting confused. Raikou got aura sphere. Entei got extreme speed. Don't forget about hp grass.

 

[Stellar]

According to Bulbapedia, all three of the dogs get ExtremeSpeed, not just Entei.

 

[firecape]

Something i think is possible with the entei/arcanine issue is some people may opt to use BOTH. I don't play the UU metagame that often, so i wouldn't know but it seems similar to the salamence in ubers issue, in the fact it sort-of by passes the specie clause in having 2 of the same pokemon on your team, meaning "arcanine" can have a second sweep after you see the opponents teams counters, and sweep as "entei", just my 2 cents.

 

[GMLW]

Something i think is possible with the entei/arcanine issue is some people may opt to use BOTH. I don't play the UU metagame that often, so i wouldn't know but it seems similar to the salamence in ubers issue, in the fact it sort-of by passes the specie clause in having 2 of the same pokemon on your team, meaning "arcanine" can have a second sweep after you see the opponents teams counters, and sweep as "entei", just my 2 cents.

Like the double-dragon strategy in OU. Use the first one to bait out and weaken their counters, then use the second one to sweep.